Mormons BOMB In Cringeworthy Debate | ExMo Jubilee Reaction

[@CarahBurrell]

I tried to edit and re-edit this video in 100 ways to not flag Jubilee's copyright and be able to monitize it, but to no avail, so here's the full thing! Donations and tips would be VERY appricated, links below! Thanks! 🤝 DONATE VIA DONORBOX! donorbox.org/thanks-for-the-amazing-content-carah-let-me-help-you-keep-it-funded 👩‍💻 Join the Hoetown community on Patreon: www.patreon.com/nuancehoe 🍯 Tip Jar (Venmo: CarahB): account.venmo.com/u/CarahB Time codes: 00:00 Jubilee video intro 5:30 Cast’s strengths and weaknesses 13:22 Is Mormonism a cult? 19:00 Important info has been hidden 24:00 My thoughts on Kwaku 27:40 Can you think for yourself? 29:18 Moroni’s fallacious promise 31:30 My thoughts on Cardon 34:45 Cult harm, Mormons wining 37:58 Do they even believe Mormonism? 42:23 Do Mormons welcome LGBT? 47:11 Cardon says cancer is a trial just like being gay 54:40 Jill calls Cardon’s comparison disgusting 57:22 Tember believes in resisting his gay feelings 1:07:30 Are men and women are equal in the Mormon Church? 1:10:17 Cardon’s “we love women” lip service 1:15:03 Liz’s relief society clap back 1:21:40 “Preside” doesn’t mean power? 1:27:04 Cardon ask what will be enough for you girls 1:30:11 The sexism of the family proclamation 1:34:00 Is it okay for the doctrine to change? 1:38:24 Kwaku makes the “fallible humans” argument 1:40:30 John lists the changes 1:42:30 Mormons 100% lie about racist doctrine and history 1:48:50 Has the Mormon Church done good in the world? 1:54:00 Liz’s final thoughts 1:56:00 What they cut out

[@errrkt]

you knocked this one out of the park. i've never seen such a thoughtful, multidimensional and dare i say nuanced jubilee react. above and beyond!

[@morganadvantures]

Just donated! You guys HAVE to donate to the first link just to see the cute video afterwards. 😂Love your content , thanks for all you do! 🫶

[@RoughStoneRollingLapidary]

I'm sorry NuanceHo. I thought that commentary videos were allowed on KZbin. Isn't that like a large portion of content on here? That sucks that you won't get the credit you deserve on this one. I assume it'll be a highly watched episode as well.

[@Elaan021]

I love your commentary, but I do want to gently push back on you supporting John on the 70% marriage failure statistic statement. Based on what you said, it *is* disingenuous for him to say 70% as if that is what he found. He found 51% with a *projection* of 69%.As an academic, the way he phrases that rankled me. Saying "at least 51%, likely closer to 70%" would have been a better way to go about that.

[@robbiesilverwolf]

But it is edited…… your jump cuts are really REALLY obvious. Like early KZbin jump cut bad

[@notsparks]

I guess I got all the trials. I am a gay man who grew up in the church and I also have chronic leukemia. 12 years ago when I was 30, when I was told I was going to die in a matter of days (from a completely different almost always terminal illness, called hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis), it wasn't the church offering me support - it was the man I am proud to love who was there, every day and night, living in the ICU with me except to go to work, sleeping on a chair in a lobby, holding my hand when I was comatose and on life support, making life or death health care decisions for me when I couldn't, never turning his back. He gave everything to support me - to the point a nurse finally told him just go home and sleep and if something happened they would call him. For 6 months he didn't miss more than a work shift being there, even when I wouldn't know. He was with me every chemotherapy infusion, after every surgery, in a nursing home advocating for me - I don't know if there could be a more true kind of love than that. And that is why I believe that who I am with, still, was who I was destined to be with. I'm 43 this year and we will celebrate 24 years together

[@jerremyl8886]

That is beautiful. True love right there, thank you for sharing that with us.

[@aarontwitchell3633]

I’m not gonna tell you you are hell bound cuz idk Gods will in you but if you are on your deathbed and still have the belief in Mormonism you will never see heaven

[@msjkramey]

I'm so sorry that you and your partner had to go through that together, but I'm so, so glad that you found a love like that and that you pulled through. If you're permanently turned off from religion, I completely understand that. I just believe that God loves you, not in spite of who you love, but because of who you always were. God's love is perfected through us and I can't think of a better example of that than the kind of love that you two share. Glad you're still with us

[@trybunt]

This is so sweet, I hope you have many more years together. True couples face their problems as a team, and this is a perfect example of you 2 vs anything the world throws at you. It sounds so simple but so many people struggle to fully incorporate it into their lives. If people love each other, they become invested in each other's happiness. Arguing, getting back at each other, cruel insults.. none of that type of behaviour makes sense in a healthy relationship. Sure, we're all human, we'll get frustrated, make mistakes, but that's never a big deal when you know you're both on the same team. It's so sad that some people would be against that love for you simply because some other people said God doesn't like it 🤦‍♂️ how ridiculous is that when we really think about it. Just a bunch of people claiming to speak for God, no way to test what they say, but most people seem to be convinced anyways

[@trybunt]

​@@aarontwitchell3633why should anyone listen to your opinion about who gets into heaven? Do you speak for God? Should I trust anyone who claims to speak for God?

[@brooklynparkse]

I appreciate you cutting Ward Radio because I was very curious what they thought but there’s no way in hell I’m ever giving them views.

[@aBrewster29]

Does KZbin count it when someone tries to hear what they have to say but can’t take more than five minutes of their BS? Asking for a friend.

[@WeirdHousePlants]

Good idea. The entire debate experience must have gone right onto their industrial-strength shelves…because they didn’t address any of it meaningfully. Shocker!

[@Shimanchu2006]

Whenever I watch their stuff, I make sure to downvote, lol

[@downy1202]

I will NEVER entertain WARD radio. Never. I get what I need through other outlets.

[@downy1202]

Cara your read on ward radio is spot on. Why only talk about opposition and never about the goodness of their church. Sounds like a group of CN’s. And as a POC it is unfortunate that Kwaku goes so hard to fit into religion that prior to 1978 he, in his black skin, was not temple worthy, not allowed to or hold keys to the priesthood. It’s sad that he tried to vouch for them. That shelf will ultimately break too, and probably before midlife. I noticed his dig to people in their midlife stage. Many LDS of are leaving WAY before they get close to mid life. I’ll never ever understand how POC, unless utterly ignorant about the priesthood ban and the BOM join or stay if they were born into this organization. There is no way. Good luck kid.

[@ningenJMK]

Nobody is gonna excommunicate Cardon for having cancer

[@mylesmarkson1686]

Good point, but perhaps they should excommunicate him for being Cardon!

[@EricaJackson-kl1re]

My point exactly! Ugh it rubbed me the WRONG way. Yuck! tryna garner sympathy is fine. But please don’t compare your terminal illness to loving people. It’s gross. It’s bizarre

[@Lillystromhollow]

As someone who grew up in secular society, i watched the jubilee episode, it was my first real introduction to Mormonism. Northern Europe doesn't really have Mormonism. When i was watching the episode, I actually assumed that something like diseases, like cancer, was a consequence of being a bad Mormon, until I looked at the comments!

[@nothanks9503]

No we as a whole society will just look down on him as he’s now less useful to us and also many people will see it as a moral failing because bad things don’t happen to good people for no reason

[@vivisectiondrag]

@@nothanks9503 hey as a disabled person, this is a super weird comment.

[@hellfireagency]

everytime that Cardon Ellis says "hypersexualized society", I want to travel back in time and give his parents an existential crisis.

[@jivajenmoreno-adams9984]

Every accusation is a confession

[@Froxymusicchannel]

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are what they need to refer to as hypersexualized society. Nauvoo was their personal brothel.

[@lazers28]

Im glad you pointed out how much Cardin interrupted. He didnt just interrupt the Ex Mormons he took it upon himself to 'correct' or 'clarify' what the other believing members said. He claims that gay members are welcome, that the church isnt racist, and women are equal but over and over he discounted the perspectives of gay, black and women members. Like, DO they matter, Cardin, as individuals with diverse opinions or do they only matter when they agree with you and ohrase things how you would? He may say the edit made him look bad but he did that all on his own.

[@rebeccan7276]

they count as members of the flock that will tithe $ and make the number go up. they are not expected to actually be diverse humans in any way, to speak up or have needs or opinions. Only Cardin gets to have those!

[@FWWillis]

43:35 it totally clicked when you made this point, Bella doesn't know about Mormon code switching and it's making Cardon squirm out of his skin. She's just being honest and stating the simple, observable truth; which is the LEAST Mormon way to talk about Mormonism.

[@jivajenmoreno-adams9984]

A-Men

[@prada_rl]

@@jivajenmoreno-adams9984Gay-men* 🙏🏼

[@kevincoleman9855]

Nobody will ever tell Carson “it’s ok to have cancer, it’s just not ok to act on having cancer”

[@thepalegalilean]

False equivocation. Carson only said that cancer is alike in regard to homosexuality in that they are both crosses to bear. At no point did he ever say these were equivalent in any other regard aside from that.

[@kevincoleman9855]

@@thepalegalilean has not the very thing been expressed by church leadership regarding homosexuality? I understand his assertion, it’s just an extremely misguided analogy.

[@thepalegalilean]

@@kevincoleman9855 *has not the very thing been expressed by church leadership regarding homosexuality?* I'm not part of the Mormon church, so I wouldn't know. *I understand his assertion, it’s just an extremely misguided analogy.* Agreed, especially if he was making the analogy in an unqualified way.

[@angelkriser5835]

Thank you for including "their" review of the episode as well. I was curious on how they responded but didn't want to give their channel any attention or views!

[@CarahBurrell]

It's my pleasure

[@JoandArc5005]

​@@CarahBurrell you do us all such a service!

[@Zodiacalesotericmatrix]

​​@@JoandArc5005Nuancehoe, servicing everyone effectively with top notch A+ service ❤

[@outwardbound2241]

I thought the exact same thing: Bella going to lunch with the exmos speaks volumes. Not necessarily because they converted her or anything, but because in this discussion all four exmos came of as very kindhearted, open, loving, intelligent human beings, while the mormons clearly didn't. And that's the funny thing. If any of the four mormons could have convinced me to join the church (NEVER going to happen, but hypothetically speaking), it very clearly would have been Bella. The other three are coming off as condescending, judgemental, defensive and the mental gymnastics they are doing to justify things that can't be justified is mindblowingly ridiculous. Bella on the other hand sees the issues, doesn't agree with everything but still chose the church and feels loved and at home in it, which is great for her and waaaayyy more convincing than the others trying to justify the unjustifiable. (Kwaku to some extend too, but only in this interview not in his usual social media appearances where he is incredibly condescending and judgemental, so to me he seemed so fake) So Bella choosing to eat lunch with the exmos bascially examplifies what probably 90% of the watchers felt. (I mean seriously, I had no clus who Cardon was before this, but who would be inclined to join a church - or have lunch for that matter - that is represented by people as unpleasant as him) Which brings me to my last point: if all the murderers, ra.pis.ts and pedos are in the telestial kingdom and only exmos are in outer darkness, exmos like Cara, John, Margie, Liz, Jillian, Dillan etc it sounds like mormonism might actually best hell of all, full of kind, openhearted, intelligent people, who loves others just for who they are.

[@stingywingy1607]

And that can make her good on a 'personal' level but I find it even more insidious as whether she disagrees or not with certain things she's chosen to completely ignore that these are doctrine and have real systemic effects on dehumanizing people, tearing apart relationships, isolating people, avoiding accountability, promoting authoritarianism, and what is essentially an abusive relationship. This is why I don't really care about you as a person when it comes to what you are selling and promoting and this goes DOUBLE for cults because you always have to ask: how much of this persona is genuine and not programed. At the end of the day what you stand for is more important and affects more people than who you are on a personal level.

[@Iamthatis137]

🙌🏼

[@peterhoyt2529]

I wished someone had pointed out that the only mention (by implying only) of Heavenly Mother is a song titled "O My FATHER." Come on, Cardon. Wake up and smell the misogynistic roses.

[@CarahBurrell]

I had no idea what song he was even talking about. Gross.

[@peterhoyt2529]

@@CarahBurrell it’s a lovey tune and sounds so pretty when the artist formerly known as MoTab sings it. But as I’ve started deconstructing and thinking about how it’s all about God the father and then, ‘Oh yeah, he probably had a wife since we need a mother’ and people like Cardon use it as if it excuses misogyny in the church is certainly a choice…

[@dougturner2036]

Wasn't talk of heavenly mother part of the issue that got the "September 6" excommunicated?

[@helenr4300]

this was mentioned in the Mormon Stories debrief episode

[@AChickandaDuck]

So you’re saying it’s not codified? 😬

[@aBrewster29]

A breakdown of Kwaku’s talking points: 60% backed criticisms against thr church 10% supported the orthodoxy 30% incoherent philosophical rambling Cardon’s breakdown: 10% interrupting for the sake of interrupting 50% mansplaining 40% talking in circles Tember’s breakdown: 100% underinformed assertions about historical church practices and teachings.

[@dannyutah3859]

Best comment ever! Based on fact too

[@unclebart100]

Love it. Wild again!

[@janar734]

I felt bad for Tember trying so hard to deny his true self. Id be curious to know how/why he went back to the LDS after stepping away.

[@aBrewster29]

@@janar734 do you not take him at his word that he’s happier now? I don’t like the fact that the Church makes one choose between those two parts of the self, and I really don’t like any implication that just because it’s working for Tember it can work for anyone, but I think we still have to allow people the legitimacy of their claimed experience, whatever side that’s on.

[@praestant8]

​@janar734 tember was raised by his mother who was an evangelical conservative Christian. He converted to follow in an older bother and his father's footsteps.

[@SaffronHammer]

It is so sad when Jill spoke up for herself and her own experience. How rude of her not to allow Cardon to just spew hateful self-righteous shit.

[@raindance1962]

Excellent commentary Cara. Just so you know you reached an English 62 year old mother of 3 granny of 8 ex Mormon, 40 years TBM, out for 4 years living in Germany. I am a member of the International ward here in Frankfurt after having served in continuous significant callings for 20 years in this ward, no communication since I stopped attending other than sending two senior missionaries sporadically turning up on my doorstep with fake smiles and fake interest in me and hubby. This is my experience and quite frankly what would entice be To go back? Absolutely nothing certainly not from a caring community standpoint. This is my experience. I thrive by looking to the ex Mormon podcast’s like yours, John Dehlin and Mormonism live to name but a few. Your podcasts in this community helps me know I am not alone in this. So Thanks you are much appreciated ❤That’s my two pennies or two cents.

[@allykwrenmusic]

“People go through their faith crisis at the same time as their midlife crisis” bro I left evangelical christianity at 20 so I hope that wasn’t the middle of my life

[@TheWrigle]

I grew up mormon in Utah. I left the church shortly after highschool. Continued to pretend to go to singles ward ( dressed up, then went to the mall) with my Girlfriend for two years since we feared what our parents would say. All my friends in my ward were on missions, so nobody noticed me missing. We quit attending after we got married at 20 and moved out. So... guess at this rate I am on track to die by 36-40. Oof.

[@kirklandmeadows]

​@@TheWrigleI hope it's the Salt Lake mall

[@PrincessMicrowave]

Also, when people do have a midlife crisis, it's usually based on real actual major problems in their life. Not because they randomly go crazy. People just grow up and realize that they're unhappy with things in their life and they don't want to spend the rest of their life in misery.

[@Zodiacalesotericmatrix]

A lot of converts join the Church during a crisis. Your point is moot Cardon.😂

[@nothanks9503]

@@ZodiacalesotericmatrixYeah people will just try everything available to them when they realize how few options they actually have available I think that’s what we’re getting with the mid life crisis thing

[@RaineInChaos]

1:28:28 Cardon really came in here to say “Okay but we can’t just make men and women equal at this point because Mormonism (and Christianity as a whole) is fundamentally sexist at its very foundation” and thought he was cooking

[@aarontwitchell3633]

Call it what you want but the Bible is clear on man and woman roles to be against that you are wrong Hyper sexual behavior is sin regardless of preference The Bible also says if a man looks apon a woman with lust it’s the same sin as adultery

[@nordos]

@@aarontwitchell3633 I am failing to understand what you want to express here. man and women toles to be against that? Against what? Sexism? That is plain wrong. Homosexuality? Nowhere in the bible, actually. And why is it a sin? Ever thought about it? Why does an old book, written by men, in a time where society was different, prescribe the way I have to live my life? And also, the bible seems something like a guideline for beliefers. 'Ehhh, I don't like that passage, let us ignore it. Nah, that passage is a bit old-fashioned, let us interpret it differently. This one I like, though! Let us go by it word for word as it is written!'

[@RaineInChaos]

@@aarontwitchell3633 Yes, because of its basis in the Bible, Christianity is fundamentally flawed beyond saving. Glad we agree.

[@Elaan021]

​@@aarontwitchell3633 I mean, yes, if you take everything in the Bible as literally as possible and ignore the rhetorical styles of the periods in which it was written. There's style misogyny no matter how you slice it, but the current literalist interpretations of certain passages (especially the epistles) are difficult to substantiate in context.

[@Elaan021]

I find the whole inerrancy doctrine to be bizarre in Christianity because half of Jesus's supposed point was correcting what people at the time considered the proper interpretation of Jewish law. Like, the religion is founded on a dude questioning the status quo. Shouldn't that be a tenant of the religion?

[@officialcalvinwayman]

I grew up in polygamy (FLDS). And literally have front row seat to it being considered doctrine. Literally it’s why I exist

[@lindsey4178]

If you don't mind, could you tell me a bit about yourself family? I live in Texas so mostly we have fundamental Christians. Im amazed, after looking into polygamy, how many people it effects.

[@officialcalvinwayman]

Sure, I have 1 dad, 4 moms, and 44 siblings. Grew up in it and left about 6 years ago, and recently started my life over in New York City about a year ago. I have a channel where I'm starting to talk about some of this stuff@@lindsey4178

[@rabbit__]

I'm sorry you grew up in that, and grateful you're not in it now.

[@RIO4LIFE]

47:16 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a hyper-sexualized society that doesn’t talk about sex. The ungodly do a better job

[@Elaan021]

I'd argue they talk about sex way more than non-LDS because they're always talking about how sex is bad and/or sexualizing things that shouldn't be (such as a pre-teen girl's collarbones).

[@whitney2042]

I’d like to quote the great RBG, rest her soul, “Women belong in all places where decisions are being made”.

[@amazinmaven]

I really hate how Cardon tries to make any kind of LGBT sex as hypersexualized as if straight men aren't hypersexual either? Also, as an asexual female, I am lgbtq but I'm quite the opposite of hypersexual and there's not a place for me in the church either. My entire life in the church has been defined by men who viewed my body as a temptation, a prize, and incubator. I WISH I hadn't spent my whole life being sexualized by the entire body of men and doctrine of the Church

[@brackalack1]

I cringed every time he said it too. I think the issue with hypersexuality may be a you problem Cardon, not exclusively a lgbtq+ problem.... 🖤🤍💜

[@Kwright304]

By hypersexual they mean “sexually unavailable to me”

[@heidic527]

Seems to me that all the men who have sexual thoughts about every girl and woman whose shoulders are showing are the hypersexual freakshows.

[@maxleveladventures]

It's sinful to be a man and hook up with even one other man. But it's virtuous to be a man and have sex to impregnate as many women as you can. Let's ignore that telling women it's their job to have children opens the flood gates for sexual abuse/domestic rape. All of this ideology encourages as much straight sex as possible, under the guise that it's about "family and children." Rules for thee, but not for me...

[@nothanks9503]

Heterosexual sex without contraception is the only non hyper sexual sex because it serves a purpose any other kind of sex is for pleasure

[@RampidWarthogStudios]

The ward radio crew is the cringiest group of people I've ever seen

[@CarahBurrell]

Such cringe 😂

[@carolineraines6465]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Doctordevey]

"I stare down the barrel of a chemotherapy pill everyday" What?? Hahahaha sure I'm high but what the hell was that?

[@_Nat_A_]

As a cancer survivor, I am far removed but also understand that comment. I’m perplexed that he chooses to represent the LDS community by his hate. I really do hope he finds a cure, and is cancer free.

[@janar734]

Right?? In response to LGBTQ question cardon somehow makes it about himself 🙄 im not even Mormon and i was cringing lol

[@_Nat_A_]

@@janar734 I am trying to imagine living with Cancer, and how that would affect a person, but having been diagnosed, I can’t imagine not trying to leave the world a kinder and better place. I can only imagine he lives LDS because of the promise of families are forever, and that gives him peace, and he will talk over or make ever situation about him to prove his church is “true”. That has got to be exhausting.

[@kodigemma3359]

I live with a cluster of diseases that will ultimately be fatal, but it does not give me the right to minimize other people’s opinions and suffering by comparing it to mine. That alone is disgusting. But to essentially call others’ makeup, the way they are born into this world, to a disease takes a special sort of ignorance.

[@LOUDSOL]

This subset of comments is making me want to be a better person and have more sympathy for others, all around. Thanks everyone. And if I ever get a fatal illness, I'll definitelybe trying to leave the world a more beautiful place with more happy people who are safe and loved. Everything else is a waste of fucking precious time.

[@americandurak5282]

Thanks for doing our dirty work and editing their reactions.I tried to watch their episode but couldn't stomach it haha

[@jurgnobs1308]

notice how most of their arguments about sexism weren't actually against their being sexism, but more like "sexism is good, actually. and the church can never stop being sexist because the books were written by men. which is good, of course" except they don't use the word sexism.

[@Wren402]

I loved the “when you give a mouse a cookie” line. When will it end? When women have full equality with their brothers in every way.

[@TheJasonBorn]

The implicit implication has always been by the Mormon hate spewing bro's and every chauvinist man that it does not in fact end at equality, but that this sis all a ploy meant to result in the reversal of gender norms where women instead of men hold all the authority and men are subjugated. It's the fearmongered chauvinist version of the great replacement theory.

[@deeperthings]

What that line conceals/reveals: it ends with the mouse giving you a cookie. If you are terrified of losing control over the whole shebang, you cannot give up control over who gets to give out the cookies. You might be willing to go so far as to let the wee mice give out the cookies, as long as you get to give them the approved cookies first. But seriously, would it be so terrible to have cookies showing up spontaneously, and sometimes you give, and sometimes you get? Like so much else that went wrong, it goes back to polygamy. Mice who are able to give you cookies will not tolerate being treated that way, and will give all their cookies to someone else.

[@emerkamp1]

Equality under the law is a close as it gets. Men will always be the builders and enforcers of authority.

[@deeperthings]

@emerkamp1 You clearly never met my mother. Or my wife! What's really sad: you can't even see your prejudice. Given equal opportunities, some men will choose to build and enforce. Some women will, too. Some men will choose not to. Will most of the builders and enforcers be men? Will most men choose to build and enforce? We won't know until we actually try giving everyone equal opportunities. We both might be surprised at the results. I'm open to finding out. Are you?

[@emerkamp1]

@@deeperthings For one there are lots of jobs women can't physically do, not all men can even handle these jobs. "We won't know until we actually try giving everyone equal opportunities." I'd argue we already do to the point of pushing negatives. Luckily we already have some data here, More social leaning Scandinavia countries long already doing this have seen women want to fill more traditional roles all on their own.

[@rytheguy6914]

Respect to Bella for keeping it real.

[@mylesmarkson1686]

Yeah, I wonder how she got on there.

[@prestoncole1862]

Makes me feel bad for her because she probably didn’t know a lot of these things before she joined the church

[@amyandnarellearegettinghit507]

I thought it went swimmingly. It was the perfect snapshot of how stupid Mormonism is and the massive divide between the various camps.

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

Great work. To the "women are equal" bit... when I was a kid I grew up in a Ward where they tried to appoint a woman to the Bishopric. Not even to one of the main leadership roles, just a member of the Bishopric. This did not fly. Once word got out, Mormon HQ sent people out to "correct" things and essentially the whole leadership of that ward was removed and the stake was also in a bit of trouble IIRC. Men would use it as a point of mockery for women in the ward for years to come. The prevailing sentiment was "Oh isn't it so silly how a woman ever tried to do this?" like how one might laugh about a cat who wore a tuxedo. But with this tinge of "What an awful woman she was" her daughter and her daughter's family were always kind of tinged with that shame and suspicion as well (her daughter incidentally kept her maiden name when getting married and gave her daughter her last name so... yeah that probably had something to do with it as well) . So yeah... they take women not being equal very seriously. Even the faintest hint of equality for women in the church will be met with the black helicopters approach. This was decades and decades ago... but when I finally got some clarity and started leaving the church, it was still very much a thing.

[@LauraOttawa]

I admire how John kept his voice calm in this debate

[@CarahBurrell]

By keeping so calm, he was a star! 💫

[@burner27]

You could hear the tranquil fury though.

[@thortonnotthecoffeeguy8473]

Blame the hyper-sexualized world instead of exercising even the smallest bit of self reflection. It's always the world's fault, not your Faith's/Religion's fault.

[@kodigemma3359]

I couldn’t get past the way that statement reduced being gay to a sex act.

[@thortonnotthecoffeeguy8473]

@@kodigemma3359 Good point! I think the hyper-religious man may only be hyper-focusing on the hyper-sexualized sex acts of gay men. Not projecting at all. But seriously, doing that lets you ignore the humanity of the other person. Which is why he threw it up as a shield so many times.

[@tedsmith8369]

Carah, I’m really enjoying watching you come into your own! When John mentioned on his show that you were going to commit on this, I couldn’t wait to see it! You didn’t disappoint! You are certainly a force to be reckoned with!

[@TeddyPalf]

19:50 it looked like it physically pained him to say he was happier now married to a woman. The smile and the chuckle after to hide the amount of despair that he has stuff deep onto his soul. I hope he lives freely one day

[@TheLeadG]

Freely in sin?

[@pigz4prez]

It was nice to hear your take! You provided some context I wasn't aware of when I watched the Jubilee video. I listened to the MSP reaction video, which was great, and then I tried to watch the Ward Radio reaction just to see what their take was (I've never seen anything from them, but from what I hear Kwaku was more nuanced and respectful in the Jubilee video than he normally is) and I didn't last more than about 15 seconds because they were so disrespectful and misrepresenting everything. I'm glad you shared a few of their reactions when relevant, but sparingly, so I didn't rage-quit the video 😄 As a nevermo (I think that's the right term), the Ex-Mormon crew won this debate hands down!

[@cookiesnbubbles]

Nevermo is the correct term online/on Reddit. People who aren't exmo online might not get it lol In real life, it is just "non member"

[@sinisterhug1394]

I always want to scream when someone says “gay/queer lifestyle” or eludes that queer people are here because “the world is wicked, because of Satan!” As a trans person, hearing that ALL THE TIME growing up in church led me to hate myself, & wanting to “self unalive.” What Liv said that “being queer isn’t a trial, but being queer in the church is a trial” is 100% on point!

[@nope19568]

its so funny how one of them tried to say "we dont try and control how people live their lives" and then immediately went to them talking about "walking away from the gay lifestyle" and "still living with same sex attraction"

[@nothanks9503]

I mean you just have to know the reason for those beliefs are because it’s what’s best for the community because some kinds of sex are more risky than others for the individual and the community if someone has multiple partners because of STDs and also non heterosexual sex can’t make a baby we can mostly solve those problems with modern medical science

[@catelynh1020]

​@@nothanks9503 Okay, i'm going to try to answer your whole comment, so if i miss part of it, sorry in advance. "What's best for the community" is to have a portion of the community not bearing children but still raising them. As a somewhat poor example, you can take 4 mated pairs of people, each with 2 children since they can only afford to have 2 children. One couple dies and now no one can take care of those 2 children. But if you had 4 pairs, 3 who have children and the 4th without but willing and able to help raise kids, then the existing children are able to be raised even if one couple has a problem where they can't continue to raise them. There are also additional evolutionary correlations to having too many kids and the youngest ones being more likely to be lgbtq due to hormone exposure during development. It could maybe be related to population control, else if your 14 kids each have 14 kids, you'll run out of space and resources to take care of them all. (This is in no way meant to say that it's about population control or there's anything right/wrong with being lgbtq, merely that evolution's had no problem with it for over 10million years so it's not detrimental to continuing the species and in fact is everywhere in nature). As for stds and the like, one guy sleeping with 100 women without any protection and one guy sleeping with 100 guys with protection is going to have the one with protection better off. Education might be missing, or the cultural stigmas prevent people from getting tested properly and alerting those they'd slept with to get tested. Certain acts are more dangerous, regardless of the genitals of those involved, which means lack of knowledge and protection can hurt anyone. As long as people stay safe, it shouldn't matter what they do behind closed doors as consenting adults. Just try not to do anything that results in a hobble of shame to a hospital.

[@nothanks9503]

@@catelynh1020 In your first suggestion that would waste 2 whole people if they’re fertile females that’s reducing the bottleneck on potential population size substantially But if they the secondary set of parents are past reproductive prime and or already reproduced that’s a very efficient use of human resources grandparents you’ve invented grandparents

[@catelynh1020]

@@nothanks9503 I'm not wasting 2 whole people. There is just once less couple that can have children of their own. It would be the same as if one of them was infertile. Equally, you could have 1 guy and 7 women, with each woman having 2 kids which would be 14 kids. But no one's saying we should be doing that. Because that would actually be bad for the community (we don't live in family units where we kick out males to find their own unit with many females). And i didn't invent grandparents. I just pointed out adoption. Families don't generally just keep adopting when they already have kids. But there are a number of couples that want to adopt and raise a kid not biologically theirs. Additionally, grandparents tend to be on the older side (unless they had kids pretty young). If my parents had me when they were in their 30s and i have a kid when i'm in my 30s, my parents would be in their 60s when the child is born and that means they'd be around 80 before that kid is legally an adult. And given that all but one grandparent of mine was dead or unfit to take care of children before i was born, that isn't a situation where grandparents raising kids makes more sense than young adults who couldn't have kids of their own. And to stop the argument of "but olden times girls were mothers by the time they were 15, so their parents were more like 30" before it really starts, most people were dead by 60 for various reasons if they survived into adulthood. And for most of our history, the whole family helped raise each other

[@UpriseMusic]

Kwaku, Cardon, and their homie Jonah run the one of the Worst “religious channels” on KZbin. Almost everything is wrong, even when they try to discuss “Christian history.” Props for refuting them. 👏

[@Rebecca-zj4wq]

I'm surprised to hear that about Kwaku. As someone not familiar any of them, he came across as almost reasonable. Whereas Cardon came across as exactly who he is.

[@markkrispin6944]

​@@Rebecca-zj4wqWard Radio=The Three Stooges.

[@krismurphy7711]

What bothers me the most about The Ward Radio (former Midnight Mormon) Boys is that they automatically GRAB and HANG ON TO ANY SHRED of ANYONE'S THEORY in order to TRY TO PROVE their Church is true.

[@joesobeski87]

It sucks that Cardon guy has cancer but literally what is the argument he is even making other than a shameless emotional appeal?? He got dealt a bad hand and will likely die young, therefore treating LGBT people like shit is justified? Or is his argument a blanket "life sucks, get over it"? What is the good faith interpretation of his argument there?

[@larajohn9535]

Know that Cardon's leukemia is SELF-INDUCED. He SOLD his Health for $$$. He continues to spray toxic poison on a daily basis for his family's UNIPEST pest control co. Toxic Actions have Consequences.

[@kriswalker3275]

The women weren't allowed to help codify the proclamation of the family! Lmao

[@lohofa]

Well nothing wrong with that when women weren't allowed to codify the bible 😉

[@sipho22]

"take a drink"

[@davidchess1985]

Leukemia-bragging aside, the "we live in a hypersexualized society" thing was so weird. The fact that some people are gay and that the Church punishes them for it, is because we live in a hypersexualized society? If we lived in a better society then... what? No one would be gay? Or gay people would be able to casually stop being gay in order for the church to stop punishing them? Or what, exactly? He's making no sense whatever.

[@MarshaAnderson-i1j]

Isn’t it hypersexualized to impose chastity on all Mormans and make them feel the need to confess and be punished?

[@luis_g_77]

I'm not a mormon but got really into this debate and reaction videos. Please check out the mormons reaction video about this. I couldnt believe that they kept saying that Jubilee kept making them look bad, and in the same sentence, not call anyone on the ex-mormon side by their name, like "the green shirt girl".

[@luis_g_77]

Just saw that your sharing the mormon reaction too! The ex-mormon group look like a fun group of people. I wish I could hang out with them

[@TheJasonBorn]

Dehumanizing others is a big issue with religious people.

[@rwd1025]

Most Mormons have an extreme persecution complex. So there's that...

[@jonny6man]

Yes! I noticed that too. Very unkind of Ward Radio.

[@nathanbigler]

Cardon definitely lied about slavery and LDS racism

[@CarahBurrell]

Such lies 🤦‍♀️🙃

[@nathanbigler]

@@CarahBurrell you should talk about Natalie Cline too ...

[@rachelblackford612]

OMG, I literally said, "yes" out loud multiple times to your commentary @nuancehoe ! I've been out of the church since 2012 and don't spend a lot of my time thinking about it. Once in a while I dip back in to see what's going on, and it REALLY seems like the church is going off the rails. I am really grateful for people like you who have facts based and articulate responses to all of this nonsense. People need to hear this stuff! Glad I came across your channel!

[@kathrynclass2915]

51:48 thank you for saying that because I couldn’t stop saying out loud while I’m watching this that a hyper sexualize society isn’t the cause of peoples queerness

[@Emma_love10]

This bugged me so much. He was implying we live in a hyper specialized world, that’s why you’re gay.. like wtf

[@kathrynclass2915]

⁠@@Emma_love10 yeah! It was so irritating

[@raigenhuss7030]

Literally. I’ve known gay people who choose to wait until marriage to have sex. That comment was so ignorant

[@AbroadonaBudget]

Your argument asking the logical question 'Why didn't a prophet of God get this right if this is a perfect system' is exactly the argument that led me to stop my conversion journey. It just didn't add up that a Church 'fully restored' with a living prophet on earth just... got it wrong over and over again on issues of human rights? Quakers started in the mid 1600s and were fully on board with abolition and heavily involved in the Underground Railroad and risking it left and right for their beliefs in equality... but Joseph Smith's first vision was in 1820 and he was directly connected to God and somehow Mormons give the supposedly infallible prophets the pass. Makes no sense.

[@lohofa]

Maybe we need a restored church of the restored church?!

[@AbroadonaBudget]

@@lohofa restoration inception!

[@scottmoore7588]

Mormons: "Live your life this way or burn for eternity." Kwaku: "Sounds like just a suggestion on how to live your life to me!"

[@PyrrhicPax]

Mormons don't believe non-believers will burn for eternity. They believe they will be go to "spirit prison", which some interpret as reincarnation, until they turn to god, at which point they believe those who repent will go into lower levels of heaven. Nobody burns for eternity in Mormonism.

[@yanyanfourtwenty]

Cardon powertripping his priesthoods and mormonic patriarchy by cosplaying as a mormon general authority. I laughed my spirit off because of that.

[@glitter_pus]

"trying to resist the dying lifestyle" loll

[@amazinmaven]

They never want to be honest. Or have what they're saying pointed out more clearly. "No I am not comparing homosexuality to cancer even though that's literally just what I did" "No, I'm not saying gay people in authentic relationships are unhappy and would actually be happier in a mixed orientation marriage like I am, even though that's exactly what I'm saying"

[@MH-wz1rb]

Yup, I'm so steeped in fundie that I understand exactly what they are trying to argue, it's just that they think putting an extra layer of abstraction in between changes things somehow. The argument equivalent of not having object permanence 😂

[@SaffronHammer]

Kwaku's native tongue is Word Salad. Also "no, I'm not, but are you?"

[@oddlang687]

I found that interaction between Kwaku and Jill so aggravating because he DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO MAKE A POINT there, he's simply trying to deflect by making responses that sound clever.

[@FlowerChild65]

Great video Cara. I loved the splicing in of the watch party reactions too. That was super fun. Thanks for inserting the clips of Ward Radio and providing some thicker content for us Never Mos who have no idea who some of these folks are. Love the new studio and your hair is fire today ❤

[@mamajoe7715]

Cardon seems to need definitions for LOTS of words. "First we need to define equal?" Dude! IT MEANS EQUAL!!!!!

[@cwb1400]

Someone get the dude a dictionary 😂

[@elainesutter5761]

The manipulative Mormon man tears were triggering. Bravo Jill!

[@mylesmarkson1686]

I don't think he even shed any tears--Did he? It looks like he just faked some blubbering sounds for a few seconds.

[@krismurphy7711]

1;41:40..... LOVE how John SHOWED the simulated throat slitting.... Cardon...Kwaku...."What the hell can I say about that??? We're f'd"

[@attieb316]

I love how you present the information!. I was a devout Mormon for over 30 years, temple attending and all. When I realised the Bible was not backing up the teachings of Mormonism, and that all my cross referencing and study actually didn’t prove Mormon doctrines but instead countered them immensely and that the ceremonies of the temple are founded in dark doctrines of occultism like masonry and satanism, (the names of the handshakes especially for satanism), and the other clothing and portions of it from masonry mostly, I had no choice but to choose love and truth over doctrines of devils and cult propaganda. When you leave the church the members will question your choice as not one of wisdom or study of actual church history and doctrines, but only one of something being wrong with you, your character, or you have a sin causing you to become deceived. They will not validate you as a person making a backed up and smart choice, you can never be intelligent and believe in the true biblical God, and be apostate to the church, in their minds. The church has changed so many things in the Book of Mormon, early teachings, temple wording, prophets’ intended teachings over the pulpit and in their books etc in order to keep people from knowing the reality of it, and leaving, or to become more acceptable so as to keep funds coming in for their investments and wealth. They control the way members are able to feel and think, through the fear mongering that you will go to the dark side and be abandoned by God if you choose to not follow a pedophile adulterous prophet. It is gross and a misconduct of the church and the leaders to control, lie, deceive, ruin families because of a spouse choosing to leave, take money from their poor, accuse people who leave of being dark and loathsome etc. they commit a high level of emotional and psychological abuse toward their membership since Joseph Smith first spewed his horrid melting pot of heretical stew.

[@SylviaDragon]

the ex mormons had some good talking points but ultimately i feel like the mormons themselves did the best job in convincing people they are in a cult. in debates like that you know you are never going to convince the entrenched on the opposing side, you can only convince the people watching- and i think they did that wonderfully.

[@gabetown82]

Thank you for also including the reactions from the exmo group watch. Wish that i could have actually been there. 🎉😊

[@yakko789]

I just subscribed. I've followed you on TikTok for like a year. I left the church in 2021 and got my mom to finally question and leave too. Funnily enough, SHE'S the one who told me about your KZbin channel! Apparently she's a fan of yours too! We love you!

[@donnellallan]

You were extra brilliant on this one, Carah. Wow! Thanks for making me smarter today. (P.S. Your chair is gorgeous!)

[@CarahBurrell]

Chair power!!! 🧠

[@user-px2dt6kh9r]

I used to find it sad that me and my child wouldn’t be able to be sealed in the temple because her dad is abusive and wants to kill is. We would only be able to be sealed if he was sealed with us. I used to cry over that. It’s freeing to know it’s complete BS.

[@francinesanchez5402]

Ooh. I just started this. Made me sad what they said about John telling people to leave their partner and experiment…. Sheesh. Talk about someone who’s never looked into anything. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I learn a lot about myself through Mormon Stories and my own spiritual journey. John is pretty conservative, personally and certainly doesn’t advocate cheating. No need to lie. We all have legitimate things that can be talked about.

[@liseklerekoper2441]

“Drink every time he says gay lifestyle.” 😂🤦🏻‍♀️ The propensity of Mormons to continue to refer to being gay as a “lifestyle choice” makes me want to scream.

[@pillylamb]

It's kind of funny that the only people who would choose this "lifestyle" are people who are gay.

[@jarom_thurston]

Preside “Siri: what’s the definition”? Hahahaha love it

[@MemyzelphandI]

Cardon's unique trial in this life is death. I felt so much cringe when he brought that up. As a cancer survivor myself...it's nowhere near the same thing. Being gay should not be a burden.

[@HamsterPants522]

It's especially absurd because death is far from a trial. Death represents a release from suffering by any understanding of what suffering is, and dying earlier is more convenient than dying old in any christian context.

[@chrisellis4400]

The claim: "I own a car" The Skeptic: "Can you prove that you own a car?" The defense: "Yes, I have a receipt. Here is my proof of insurance. If you come outside I can show you my car." Religion: The claim: "I own a car" The Skeptic: "Can you prove that you own a car?" The Defense: "Yes, my car is blue" The Skeptic: "Sure, but can you prove that you own a car?" The Defense: "Yes, my car is blue and has four wheels" The Skeptic "Okay, you are just describing your car,. Can you actually demonstrate that you actually own a car?" The Defense: "Oh I see what your objection is. Cars have four wheels and a steering wheel. Steering wheels aren't actual wheels. My car has four actual wheels plus a steering wheel and also it is blue. I think you'll find my narrative is very consistent." The Skeptic: "Just show me your car." The Defense: "Why are you arguing with me?"

[@TroyLeavitt]

Wow, Carah, your channel is doing really well! Based on your hard work and your constantly improving quality of content, I'd say you well deserve the success. Feel free to bask in the glow of the free-market meritocracy. You're a star!

[@CecileM-ty9ts]

Jesus Christ didn’t come for religion- He came for relationship. He came to set the captives free, and reconcile us to Him- GOD.

[@Bigfootismyhero]

I watched the ward radio one as well and it felt like they knew they essentially lost the overall argument from the start of their video, with the complaints they had and their defensive statements. Great video!

[@marylamphere2112]

My hat is off to you, I lasted maybe 5 mins when I tried. I had never seen them before so I foolishly took the jubilee video as "this is who we are" and was shocked. I love that John was himself in the jubilee video, if you watch any MSP at random you'll see the same guy. Kwagu seemed rational and mature then I got to see him on his show and was floored.

[@OneidaGC]

my mother getting Cancer when I was 14 and dying when I was 19 definitely sped up my deconversion from Christianity because all mighty God isn't benign or its all a lie

[@MarshaAnderson-i1j]

I’m so sorry. Deconverting now because I can’t wrap my head around God creating the world of his own volition then demanding to be worshipped.

[@HamsterPants522]

@@MarshaAnderson-i1j Exactly. It's just twisted. If God is really how he is described, then he's the ultimate adversary. There's no way to respect a being like that.

[@kwgluvna]

So, I grew up in the Southern Baptist church and married into the Catholic church. (I divorced into the Lutheran church, different story) This discussion could have been by either Baptists or Catholics. Same arguments for both sides. Carah, as usual you did a great job breaking this down. I knew you would. I love your channel. You Rock!

[@Meganec3810]

Lapsed catholic I agree!

[@spymaster2455]

The question is how do you know you're even going to heaven you may be going the other direction because of misinformation from the church.

[@jamybailey]

So much this. I worried for YEARS before I left "but what if THESE are false prophets"

[@spymaster2455]

@@jamybailey To ask your question. Yes they are false prophet. Because the Supreme Creator did not leave any written word or anything on this dimension for us to follow. All the Supreme Creator did is leave everything we need in our DNA. Since the soul never dies and you happen to be the soul. Not the shell that you're living in at this time. So why would you need anyone to save you when you're already saved. Because you are part of the God Code.

[@zuzumontague]

Am I the only one that thinks Cardon exploited Tember in order to fit his own narrative?

[@ginamiller6754]

Kwaku and Cardon would be unlikable no matter what their platform!

[@Smilesremember2Smile]

Ok so I greatly enjoyed this video! So glad I don’t need to watch Jubilee’s video. I just wanted to share that it has been almost a year since me and my husband resigned from Mormon church. My husband had always been interested in the Community of Christ and that was something that he started going to after we officially resigned from the Mormon church. It’s amazing how much I love the Community of Christ. They are night and day, not even comparable to the Mormon church. Women hold the priesthood, women in my congregation preside and lead way more meetings than men do. It’s very refreshing how supportive the people are. They truly have welcomed me and my husband. A couple things in the Mormon church that always bothered me is tithing you know it has to be 10%. In the Community of Christ they have something called disciples generous response, which is literally any amount that you want to give. They also have something called righteous disagreement and it’s like if you don’t believe Joseph Smith was a prophet that’s totally fine and no one will shun or be disrespectful towards you because of your belief. They hardly use the book of Mormon in their meetings, and they also don’t believe that it’s a historical document. They basically just believe that Joseph Smith wrote it and that’s it. Being a member of Community of Christ gives me the the opportunity to just be myself, which is something that I never ever felt comfortable doing in the LDS church. I would call it a low to medium demand religion it’s not like Mormonism it’s so much more chill but you can wear pants, you can wear jeans you can wear shorts, whatever you want to church. Nobody cares but it’s just so uplifting and it brings me so much joy and I’m really happy to have a happy balance in my life after leaving the Mormon church. It seems like so many ex Mormons just lack community and develop some some sadness from missing the socialization that they were used to from being in a church group. I love your channel and I appreciate the work that you do. I had more thoughts during some parts of the video, but I should’ve written them down while I was watching because I can’t remember now. Have a lovely day!

[@marijkeschmidt6733]

Carah!! As an atheist since I was in the womb I am so in awe and in love with your content. I started listening to Mormon Stories in early 2020 as a means to fall asleep. My assumption was that if it’s boring then I’ll fall asleep. It was a great sleep aid until it wasn’t. I became completely obsessed with the craziness of Mormonism. At first I thought it was a joke but holy fuck… it wasn’t 😮 As much as I still appreciate John D, it has been an absolute pleasure converting over to Carah. This Jubilee review might be one of my favorites. I will never be a classic believer of any sort mostly due to growing up as a daughter of a (famous) astronomer. My dad taught me the gift of believing in science, hard evidence and in the beauty of always asking questions. We need more of you in this world. Cheers

[@tabithalayton2001]

Omg I have been starving for some reactions on this episode! It was insane!

[@crystalchristensen7972]

Thank you for covering this and adding so much more to it!!❤❤

[@emilylauren8782]

I didn't relize Kwaku still had an apologetics platform. I guess i was living in a blissfully disconnected bubble. It checks out that he aged into the angry shock jock position.

[@BrendonKing]

Can’t keep rebooting that channel of his, so parasites off of others

[@francinesanchez5402]

I really like how they talk about the positives of community. But, the fact that those positives go away when you stop believing, it feels fake. That community needs to continue forward and for anyone who used to believe.

[@sdarling6518]

Great video! I was laughing so hard at your commentary. It was spot on. Also, I think Bella is going to be doing some research and critical thinking on mormonism some time soon…

[@TheInstigator1026]

Nuancehoe, killin it! Fabulous show. Exmo peeps represented! Siri whats the definition of heavenly mother? No freaking idea. Codified? No freaking idea. Cardon Ellis? 😂😅😂

[@yuelia9937]

"The kind of evil that doesn't realize that it's evil... is the worst kind there is..."

[@tylerwhite8930]

If a man can speak directly to God, who is “holy” and “omnipotent”, he should be anything but a product of his environment! I can’t believe they really think that’s a good argument.

[@dalemitchell6478]

Raised mormon left at 17 to join the Army and never went back . That was 51 yrs ago ! My family rarely talks to me these days !!

[@lcwalker2920]

The song is O MY FATHER and its a one-line mention of the heavenly mother.. so yeah

[@okaynope5197]

Policies are things that change, doctrines are things that don't change... until they do and then they become "just policies"

[@WhiteArtsMagic]

It’s so tiring talking with members lately. The members who are in and won’t budge it’s soooo tiring to even try to reason with them. They are stuck in a box with no way out

[@itsjustBonniesworld]

i just wanted to say your home studio is hella cozy. and 100% better vibes

[@downy1202]

Cara I’m not even 25 minutes in and you came ready with facts! Whew! Still on the first question!

[@TheJasonBorn]

Seeing the girl light up when she talks about the trial of cancer, versus how she dryly talks about being gays should tell everyone explicitly that cancer is viewed as an earthily near blessing of a burden, versus gay which is a sin that is begrudgingly tolerated.

[@preacher1138]

I’m surprised Cardon actually showed up given that John Dehlin was there!

[@scuffedchris]

i think its the opposite. wimpy john dehlin actually believed ward radio wanted him dead cuz he couldnt take a joke

[@OKbeingdifferent]

He's protected by the church, he is convinced he's untouchable

[@skyler8460]

On the Mormon stories react they said jubilee didn’t tell them who else would be there, some of the exmos told each other about it and then we’re like oh cool we’re both doing that but each side had no idea who it was on the other side

[@_Nat_A_]

@@scuffedchriswhy the hate? No one name called Cardon. As a never Mormon, I have observed that ex lsd respect practicing LDS, but some practising LDS have no other “comeback” than to name calling. Where is that in your scriptures? Respect different beliefs. Respect that most do not believe in your one true church. It’s ok. We are all good… and stop coming around to our homes. Thank you.

[@BrendonKing]

And no Kevlar vest to boot

[@rubendhoyos9886]

16:49 Exactly! In 2006, when Tom Cruise got all crazy with Scientology, I was able to point their crazy beliefs and control. It was at that point that I even started to apply this to the church (Mormonism) while at BYU, and it became a shelf item.

[@rubendhoyos9886]

46:00 while serving my mission, I had one companion, who I was attracted to a lot. Even though I didn’t break the law of Chastity by having sex, foreplay, or kiss, I felt trapped that I couldn’t have a relationship with the other guy and I felt guilty. Not to mention that my mission president humiliated and made me feel worthless at the last/exit interview over me confessing my same sex attraction to my zone leader at the end of my mission. He threatened me to release me with dishonor. So no the church doesn’t treat its LGBTQ 🏳️‍🌈 members equally.

[@chloecagle6493]

You really are nuanced! So refreshing to see such a great amount of critical thinking these days. You’re asking all the right questions, the questions I wish people would have asked during this episode (although maybe they did and it was just cut).

[@elliedemie2865]

Just curious who else was taight this. So I was born into the church and I was also taught Joseph Smith translated the plates by reading them with them hidden under a cloth. Not in a hat. And others were there. I was also taught when the polygamy was brought up emma was so upset Joseph promised her he would never do it and that only twice did he take other wives but it was to protect these women. And it was hidden from Emma at first. I was also taught anyone who said anything different was just mudding the water and trying to make me question the church. So when I found out these thing weren't true I was pissed that I was lied too my whole life.

[@TheWrigle]

Grew up LDS in Salt Lake County. Never heard about the whole magic hat/ treasure finding seer stones till I started looking into non-mormon sources. Also never heard anything about Joe's wife grabbing tendancies. Seems like many things are technically doctrine, but the church does their best to skirt the subject. Then they frame anything that makes them look bad as from the devil. Also love the way they frame ex-mormons as these nasty hateful people who will never be truly happy without the church. Having been outside the church for nearly a decade, I can report leaving the church has left me plenty happy.

[@KingArthursCrusade]

Former Bishop, left 7 years ago, I was taught that Joseph practiced polygamy but Emma approved and was asked by Joseph of before he married or engaged in intimacy with each one. I didn't know there were around 30 wives until 2 years ago having been in the church for 45 years) I was also taught the same as you regarding the translation of the plates and only one version of the first vision, etc. I left because of a spiritual awakening, I hadn't learned any of the withheld truth until after I left. So crazy!!

[@Zodiacalesotericmatrix]

17:00 and "It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even when the criticism is true." ~ D-all-in H.oax

[@courtneysokal6590]

Why do we continuously hear them talk about this “hyper-sexualized world”? Like, is that actually true?! Lol

[@LyohKoh]

You are on FIRE! I truly hope this video gets shared around, it's very valuable information!

[@nbailey9391]

Not having faith is a luxury for me, god doesn't exist and the Mormon experiment has failed. I grew up, did the Mission, got married in the Temple, seems like a lifetime ago over 20 years ago. I still find it fascinating how people blindly follow this BS. Also, I took too many drinks when she said to...

[@paulpinecone2464]

A simple defeater for the cancer argument: "Would you prefer that the cancer was gone?" He would say yes. Therefore the cancer is a curse. She would not prefer that the gay was gone. Therefore she is corrupt.

[@China-Clay]

Carson’s attempt to draw attention over his personal health issues, it was not at all appropriate to this discussion, I think he tried to stick it all in there one way or another

[@tori.rory.]

Cardon: equal but division of labor What he’s really saying: separate but equal

[@ZakMakoff]

This was a fun episode Cara, thanks for pointing out the "behind the scenes" bantering! That Bella chick seems bewildered... I refuse to comment on C & K we all know they are a circus show! I love Liz's Mondrian Partridge Family sweater... That gay married mormon guy confuses me, I cant lose sleep over him. My gardar is predicting he will eventually leave his wife and hookup again with all his boyfriends, bonus for him, he had kids! I cant believe UT County has a party lifestyle scene! LOL Thank you for sharing! ps, I love JD and all that he does, I wonder if he sometimes stirs the pot too much?