Big Changes to Star Citizen Ship Insurance Coming

According to the Developers of Star Citizen, an upcoming update will make changes to insurance where it will be possible to lose all your ship components. I'll explain that and more in this video!
Check out the full panel here: • Star Citizen // CON42 ...
0:00 Introduction
0:52 Today's Star Citizen Insurance
2:45 Con42 Information
5:36 How it Changes Star Citizen
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[@Lerium]

In SC current form, I'm dying probably 90% to bugs. I don't really think its the right time to start implementing this just yet. It will ultimately just make things harder to test. I do agree with it, just not yet.

[@AlanStryman]

this ^

[@slyisreal9451]

i agree just not mow to many bugs

[@thecommenter9678]

Yep, true facts. Also i played EVE online for YEARS and you know what i learned. High security space don't mean shit. You are gonna see Default gear gank squads partnering with legal salvage teams to make quick cash. They will game the system here, they will lose NOTHING and gain EVERYTHING.

[@PiezPiedPy]

Yep, too early to implement due to bugs.

[@JeopardsRune]

If this rolls out it'll kill the game

[@JasonVanPatten]

Personally I think they need to iron out the magic collision bugs (flying too close to another ship: explode. Hit an invisible asteroid: explode, etc, etc) long before they start monkeying with the insurance systems in the game. CIG's vision is exceptional but their order of execution and operations are questionable at times. This is one of those times.

[@iljajekimov4997]

Fix many foolishbbugs first then take away easy ship fix and claiming. No point in making things harder until there is 30K or stair steps that kill your character.

[@readyforlol]

I would honestly advocate for the current insurance system to be applied to on-foot gear, even in the final game, but with restriction to looting so people can't farm their own ship and let their pals scrap them.

[@sebastiancoar1991]

They need to fix the bugs AND add Promised gameplay mechanics. This feels like another spiteful move to "punish" players. I am tired of these "punishment" mechanics! I have limited time and want to have fun; which, I was having prior to 3.13.

[@JasonVanPatten]

TTF, or "Time to Fun" needs to be reduced in the present alpha, or folks will stop playing.

[@sebastiancoar1991]

@Jason Van Patten Yes, I agree. As it stands, I have no plans to participate in Invictus.

[@psieonic]

In general, I feel like the idea that "you lose stuff on death, and costs you to replace it" only makes sense when the cost to replace it is proportional to the frequency with which you die. At the moment, dying happens far too easily, in far too many ways, for any kind of massive cost to replace to make sense. I absolutely love the detail to which SC is trying to emulate a "real world", but a real world doesn't have you popping a red pill to literally off yourself so you can wake up 30 seconds later in a hospital bed on the other side of the solar system. You have to temper that sense of "realism" with the fact that this is still just a game, and not all of us want to have to perform a full 2 hour gameplay loop of "wake up and get ready to go to work" routine just to fly our damn ships.

[@jamesderiven1843]

These are the people who think all trvavel should be 'real time' slow because doing literally nothing for minutes at a time waiting to transit is just so much fun. Maybe if a day ever comes where you set the ship to quantum jump and then go off to do the fifty other things you want to do onboard your ship while in transit they can bring back long travel times but right now it's nonsnsense.

[@psieonic]

@@jamesderiven1843 I'm not even sure there would ever be enough engaging activities to do mid transit to justify "real time travel" on a solar/galactic scale. There's only so many engineering minigames a person can tolerate before they just quit, because they spent more time doing that than actually flying the ship.

[@jamesderiven1843]

@@psieonic I'm not saying it has to be minigames - maybe it's checking your space email and dealing with whateverthe heck. My point is that something's gotta give, because sitting on your hands for ten minutes is terrible gameplay design that exists only for an idiotic obsession with 'simulated fidelity'. You amde up quantum travel it can take as long as you want, devs.

[@EntityVsEntityInteractions]

@@psieonic I like to set my destination right away and during the time it takes to travel I grab bounties, make ads on global chat, and call friends. It's honestly time consuming enough to last the five or so minutes I spend in quantum to cross the system in an A grade Quantum Drive.

[@seductiveseaweed]

​@@jamesderiven1843idk man, I am doing those things or checking on my other tabs meanwhile or communicating with friends in game. or go & take a short & needed break, grab some food , etc. I'm fine with how the QT is.

[@TheGlingfram]

I hope they are aware of the unexpected ways in which ships are lost. If it becomes more painful and there are still alot of bugs causing losses, frustration will go through the roof.

[@YellowKing1986]

Like today... Server crashed and I lost my ship. Then logged in and got rammed by some dummy around the station in a new ship.

[@zocki5053]

its gonna be like the flight lanes when landing on stations, they think its great at first and then remove it because everyone hates it.

[@americankid7782]

Every single ship loss I have had so far is due to an error code. If the change makes me have to pay for loosing my ship from an error code I might stop playing.

[@invidatauro8922]

Today my Quantum Drive literally drove me THROUGH the planet, going in the complete opposite direction that I wanted to and blew up.

[@SaintJohn201]

Same thing that happened when character death made you lose your gear. Everyone will start losing their stuff due to bugs killing them and then rage quitting until the next patch

[@borkug1566]

I know players who have not come back to SC since then.

[@CaspCic]

@@borkug1566 Yes, cause they thought, it might have changed... doh!

[@FevnorTheWolf]

While i still love the game, this has given me less incentive to hop on to ply (that and well work has been hell, so little time) Having to dedicate time to getting on, spending an hour to try and organize friends and get things prepped for some ground pounding or something is just so tedius. that normally after the first few deaths to bugs or janky AI most of us just call it. Most of us have just dropped combat all together to do mining, cargo, salvage. since it takes far less time to Prep and Go. As for myself, i HATE running stock kit. i always try and get my specific style of gear. and it just feels punishing and disheartening to spend an hour running around the system kit hunting to have a bug kill me off. I still hop on, but i will say i dont nearly play as often as i used to. The Time/Effort to Reward doesn't really incentivize it for me anymore. And im sure im not the only one that feels this way.

[@CyberiusT]

@Borkug: Like me, for instance.

[@dfd6787]

@@borkug1566 Thats me, may be there is not enough content for now, but the game does not respect my time at all. It takes forever to get into action, and any mistake can cost quite some time, so I will sit out for a while. I don't care about realistic trains, they are fun once.

[@mrthewhite2620]

Given the current state, almost no one will chase these components cause a bug will just rob you of it eventually. I know you say ship bugs are less common but I'd say once per sessions, almost my ship is destroyed due to some physics glitch or invisible structure.

[@aaronmcintosh2903]

Yup, exactly.

[@strongback6550]

They would probably pick them from the ground during missions though.

[@jereomemoore7269]

My Redeemer often blows up for no reason because of the items in the fridge.

[@ThreeGoddesses]

@@jereomemoore7269 "My redeemer blows up for no reason" *lists reason*

[@helloitsjay38]

Planning on hording ship weapons in my local inventory like I do with fps ones.

[@Nosttromo]

It's impressive how much CIG enjoys making our lifes more difficult while actively refusing to address very bad issues that causes us to die all the time. It's like they don't want us playing the game.

[@greentea203]

they don't, wtf you doing bro, Minecraft is very stable.

[@user-rk7qk8fr8o]

You are not playing you are testing for free

[@callofdutyslayer5469]

..and then we buy more ships

[@ArtificialBeligerence-bl9hq]

If losing a ship is going to be even more painful than it currently is, they are going to lose alot of the new players.

[@Cyberdactyl]

Or just no one fighting.

[@ArtificialBeligerence-bl9hq]

@@Cyberdactyl there are too many pirate trolls killing anything that moves to casually play star citizen, too many people who say nothing and just blow you to smithereens with no justification or reason. Completely ruins the game for new people. Just as bad as hackers in COD, or toxic kids in rust. Can't avoid assholes on the internet, they're everywhere, even in cliquey space sims.

[@fakename7847]

I’m about to ask for refund…

[@ArtificialBeligerence-bl9hq]

@@fakename7847 You wont get it, this game is a trap for space nerds.

[@alibby22]

Today, the bugs outweigh the benefits. We will start to see everyone flying stock ships like we see everyone wearing the medical gear.

[@guystreamsstuff7841]

That's a good thing. Star Citizen is supposed to emulate living in an advance spacefaring society. Just like today most people drive stock cars, and businesses use stock trucks and such, modifications to stock components are usually reserved to specific niches.

[@k.g.3567]

​@@guystreamsstuff7841 I don't see how that's a good thing in what is, afterall, a game. It simply sounds like terrible game design.

[@murmenaattori6]

@@guystreamsstuff7841 Bad argument, not going to lie. The point of a game is to have something more interesting than that stock drivel.

[@royrogers3624]

​@Guy Streams Stuff "all of your progression is meaningless and you could lose it all because the server lagged out while you were calling in your ship? *sheep applauds* love it great idea"

[@royrogers3624]

​@Guy Streams Stuff dead ass had the game lagging out so I couldn't leave the bunker in time like it literally wouldn't work so the timer counted down my ship got destroyed I got blown up in it lost everything because the servers are fucked then next bunker mission as I was taking off the game bugged and my self destruct turned itself on and instantly blew up before it even finished the sentence telling me it was activated Again lost everything So you're saying it's good bugs like this could completely wipe your progress I mean if you want to kill the game and make it a desolate waste land void of a player base great idea Also as for the stock vehicle bit fun thing you lost your vehicle as easily and frequently as star citizen you wouldn't even see those stock vehicles

[@BlackThanator]

The only change I can see coming through this, is that more people will keep their ships in stock configurations to not have to put up with constantly losing stuff. Just like how you see tons of people run around in the white suit now. For me, it'll mean I'll have to spend more time in quantum since stock drives are usually worthless and agonizingly slow. I would also pose the question of what happens if i take a stock component out of a ship and then claim it, could i duplicate that component? Because for ships like the Vanguard Harbinger that do come with really good stuff (Military-B Yeager QD) right now the claim would just give you a ship without a QD altogether. Even more importantly, what would happen to ship paints? The game considers them physical components too, does that mean I stand to permanently lose a $17 paintjob if my Hercules blows up? A lot of unanswered questions, i dont think the game is ready for such a change. Nor do I welcome it in the first place. And for clarity, I try to stay as far away from PvP as I can.

[@MareLooke]

It also easily made the Aurora the worst starter ship, since it comes missing 2 guns.

[@TheBigLanowski]

I have some thoughts to add to this. Why should ramming become less of a thing when you can grief even more if you destroy a ship now? As a rammer you can just use your normal insured loadout but the rammed one might have valuable components on his ship. Also doesn't this shift the balance towards ships with good stock loadouts? For example the Sabre with 4 S3 laser repeaters as standard compared to the 4 S2s of a Scorpius where you have to upgrade? Some ships have really bad stock loadouts in weapons and or components. If they just implement it like this I think it will be very half baked. At this state of the game I'm not looking forward to this...

[@benlee8225]

get a crime stat based on value of ship you destroy so instant 5 star or 10 star wha tever and boom jail

[@inf3243]

Could this create a snowball effect where the strong players with all their top tier rare looted components become untouchable because weaker players can't upgrade to challenge them?

[@ThePlayerOfGames]

Absolutely, especially with the "corporation" system. They'd essentially be encouraging a SC based GoonSwarm scenario

[@-Bile-]

​@@ThePlayerOfGames exactly. And not to mention, as long as the loot in question respawns, high level plauers can band together and camp the spawn locations, preventing anyone else from getting them, artificially increasing the price of the loot on the player market.

[@adamflux2]

No. Some bug or other will explode them and the final impact will be a bunch of players having around an airport without anything to fly.

[@superhobo412]

9:10 I think you’re partially wrong on this, ramming from the standard PvP types will probably go down, but someone slamming a stock Merlin into your hull is now a much better tactic because they lose nothing in the Merlin and you lose all your fancy ship components to their buddy who’s hanging out nearby and waiting for the carnage to be over.

[@hmm5844]

This is what’s going to happen 100%

[@merlyndavis]

This is what’s happened in every other game where you lose your stuff. The griefers will run in packs. If three of them die to bring you down, 4-6 will just come through and loot your stuff. They will then run back and stash the gear they looted and wait for someone else, everyone in junk gear.

[@Mr_Tea_Rexx]

roflmao and to have a chance of being permanently banned as its a bannable Offence

[@hmm5844]

@@Mr_Tea_Rexx Which rarely gets enforced

[@superhobo412]

@@Mr_Tea_Rexx ramming is not a bannable offense, pad ramming however is. there is a quantifiable difference between the two

[@analysedean]

"we assume that gankers who pretty much exclusively go out in the white noob suit so they stand to lose nothing will now spend hundreds of thousands in upgrades on their ship before they go out and gank other players" Keep on smoking the good stuff boys 👍

[@soloistpro]

If it can be bought at an in-game store, it should be able to be included in insurance claims imo.

[@richardcharlesworth2020]

This is a really great idea, but OMG it’s absurd to consider implementing this while there are so many bugs that end up destroying your ship

[@friest1984]

The same was said about medical gameplay

[@buchanpeter]

@@friest1984 I don't even buy armour or weps anymore due to medical gameplay. Once ur bought items get wiped from ur ship each time it blows. No way am i buying a 100k shield generator everytime.

[@thornflynt4386]

With the most recent plan covered in this past week's SCL & the introduction of crafting, it seems apparent to me that they are taking the economy (and crafting) the same direction as EVE Online (which is brilliant because if there's one thing EVE did, it was economy simulation). The EVE universe did the same thing with Officer and Faction modules which basically sounds like what they would implement here. May seem a bit crazy right now, but for anyone who ever played EVE online, they will understand the implications & the amazing long term results that will be reached! To this day - EVE Online has the best economy I've ever seen.

[@LewyKablooe]

​@@thornflynt4386 This game is not eve but eve is the only game where the economy has any sense of feeling real since the majority of its economy that affects you in any shape or form is due to players. No other MMO has this kind of player price interaction and if you don't have that then experience is little different than an NPC store in skyrim no matter how complex the "backend" economy is.

[@dhgfffhcdujhv5643]

@@thornflynt4386 LOL crafting ...

[@SkunkerBR]

Two questions I have: 1. What's going to stop people from destroying their own ship for salvage and selling the parts and doing it in an infinite loop? 2. As for losing items inside the ship I wonder if large crewed ships will be fun. Imagine equipping a whole new one with food, armor, weapons, and then being destroyed and having to put and equip the whole ship again, every time.

[@Not_Zulu]

You can't sell your ship's stock parts.

[@reynardtv1]

As for 1 CIG is going to change the way that is handled, and I assume you will have a net loss on doing this as they want you to repair your ship before filing a claim. 2 You currently lose everything in your ship as for armor and food (FPS weapons as well). I would like to know how weapons will be handled as changing your loadout every time you lose your ship will be cumbersome. (That is if ships will still have default loadouts) It does open a new career tree in equipping ships with components or at least selling good components to players in game.

[@AviatorFox]

1. CIG has already discussed a system to prevent insurance fraud, but I doubt that'll be implemented until the insurance system itself is in a final state. In the meantime, I would expect some sort of patchwork pseudo-fix. 2. I've thought about that a lot myself as well. I think the best way they could handle this in the future is through a change to the insurance/claim process. Make insurance cover the hull, as well as certain components to 100% of value. Any installed components not covered (like these rares that Morph is talking about) would provide a cash credit to the player. Then consumable items like ammo, food, medicine, etc. could either be covered or partially covered or totally not covered by insurance based on balance needs, but would be saved in the ship's loadout. Ideally, that will result in a free ship with credits for lost rare items and a cost to replace consumables on the old ship which you could pay for immediately when claiming the ship and have a new ship delivered with consumables already aboard, having paid the price of the consumables. Saves time and effort when claiming, but still involves the penalty of being charged for some of the lost stuff.

[@skibidabndada6683]

​@@AviatorFox Your idea is actually great. Not only does the food thing balance the f.e. unlimited food source in the redeemer, it also could take away the lost time of stocking up food or drinks by your own!

[@user-vn1wz3tr1h]

@@AviatorFox Could be exploitable by griefers. For example, market manipulating an item to be super expensive for a significant period of time (large enough org could perhaps do this indefinitely after quanta releases) and then stashing loads of those false-expensive items on a ship somewhere, blowing it up later, and now the purchaser can't afford the rebuy because of the commodity costs.

[@Vapautta]

Well, yeah you're right about meta/highest tier PVP requires risking expensive components. But the risk/reward table still goes heavily in favour of pirates and/or people that just want to grief for the fun of it. Nothing is stopping them from swarming in the cheapest default gear. EVE shows this beautifully.

[@ThePyroRussian]

Eve pretty accurate when comes to meta level stuff. it all about good enough never perfect. because 1 v 5 isn't fair then 1 v 10 is stacked 1 v 15 is one volleyed. an operation always makes more money and gets more kills then solo. Players aren't dumb they will do risk adverse things. Eve proved this for almost 20 years now.

[@leroyrussell8766]

Well, if you can't buy these items, the game severely punishes casual players. Have a life and can only play 2 hours on Saturday night...too bad for you...don't try to PvP. You will be fighting at a huge disadvantage, even against average pilots who simply have time to do the missions that get them the Meta Gear.

[@NNextremNN]

@@leroyrussell8766 yes but on top of that you don't have a choice to participate in PvP or not. It will come to you regardless of what you want to try.

[@derqatarzan4207]

Brother, what pvp?

[@leroyrussell8766]

@@derqatarzan4207 If you are looking for a lot of fighter vs fighter action, that's always going to be found the most in Arena Commander. But PvP does happen in the game. Mostly things like Piracy and Bounty Hunting, right now. I visited a trading post on one moon, and there were nearly a dozen bodies laying there...people who had been pirated, or killed trying to pirate. I'm an old gamer. Been playing online games since the very beginning of PvP games. Cheating is a problem, and it's now starting to kill interest. Why PvP if a significant portion of the players you are facing, are cheating? So other than Star Citizen, I'm done playing PvP games. There are always defenders who always say it's not a significant amount of players, and yet they are proven to be wrong every single time. Like with the Tarkov wiggle. The one cheater said he can't be bothered to do a run only to be killed by a spawn camper. He feels his time is wasted. Well sorry, but that is a legit tactic. Is the camper's time less valuable? I don't play that game, but only because I knew cheating was going to be a huge problem. Games that are high risk, high reward, bring out the cheaters like flies to honey. I have played games that do allow camping to be a legit tactic. I just saw it as a challenge to beat them. Find them first. Or find a way around them. The makers of Tarkov could also fix camping if they want, by making the exfil zones much bigger, with multiple points of entry, and cover to hide in once there. What's not acceptable is using a cheat to defeat the camper. These cheaters likely don't understand that most campers are likely legit players who are frustrated. They are frustrated because they couldn't find any success by not camping, due to cheaters. So they look for a way to be successful. Anyway, Morpheologis and other big YT content creators, made videos about the cheating that's going on in Star Citizen. So why would people want to PvP?

[@soulwynd]

I think they should go a hybrid of the EVE insurance system, you could start at 25% of the price of everything you had insured and then slowly drop down to 1% over 48 hours. So you either cover the price or you wait. Losing ships should mean something when the game isn't bug prone and explody.

[@gerthddyn]

That could easily end in a PTW scenario though. People who have spent 10s of thousands of dollars and have every ship and many multiples will literally not care and just swap to the next hull to keep playing.

[@soulwynd]

@@gerthddyn That aspect of the game is already pay to win regardless of what they do.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

@@soulwynd Well they could reduce the wait time for those of us who only have 1 medium-large ship so we don't have to wait hours to play the flipping game again after a bug insta-kills you, or you get jumped by people who blow you up for no reason (not carrying valuable cargo etc) and are in a ship with basically no guns (cries in 400i). Tbh they could prevent pirates from getting full pay-out for their lost ships compared to lawful players... Like they could only get some dodgy 'no questions asked' insurance that only pays out half. That would be slightly more plausible than pirates getting essentially more complete insurance than cargo haulers.

[@Whiskeyagogo519]

I dont want anything from eve ..

[@blobfish7159]

I think this is a great way to make an already very intimidating game even more intimidating to new players such as myself. Glad I saw this before committing to a dual stick set up. Definitely gonna think hard on whether I wanna actually get into this game now or just wait for something like Starfield

[@lurakin88]

Def better to wait on it, but at the same time - them saying this at a fan event doesn't mean they'll end up doing it, especially not with the community feedback they're gonna get.

[@RedRavenRuler]

Yea I only just started playing and I work two jobs so don't have much time to practice. This is gonna make me unable to progress basically

[@DarthPoyner]

@@RedRavenRuler Nah, it won't be as bad as you think. It will eventually only affect those that want to stay on the edge of performance. It will really depend on how much of a bonus you get from the non covered items. It will have to be something special for people to work on getting it and then losing it for whatever reason. Lots will just stick to stock and low level gear. It will take some balance to get used to, but it will eventually get there.

[@lewismartin6648]

ive been playing the game for a few years now and if they add something like this i think im just gonna quit playing because i lose my ship to bugs like 2 on a good day

[@dusctilldawnrttc2308]

Imo, if you upgrade a ship you should be able to upgrade insurance to cover the ship upgrade as an option. You should also be able to insure cargo against loss. Insurance could act like a game save. We upgrade our guns and place inventory in ships etc... then go to an insurance kiosk and insure (save) those changes.

[@gravdigr27]

When I drove truck my insurance covered the truck along with any upgrades I put on it, thr trailer AND the cargo. This is pretty standard in logistics.

[@undeadpeak]

Mmm time for me to insure my c2 full of quant, get a friend to soft death it take the cargo and get another full load of quant with my insurance

[@neth77]

​​@undeadpeak just like you can do IRL. Then provably get a crime stat.

[@gravdigr27]

@@undeadpeak Yeah, that's called fraud and will make you uninsurable. If CIG wants to continue the realistic route. Even if you don't get caught making multiple cargo claims makes the insurance rates skyrocket until they will blacklist you for insurance. Again all hypothetical based on how it's handled IRL.

[@JamesPero]

That's the ultimate intent, it just hasn't been implemented yet.

[@docwylee1891]

Cart before the horse. The idea that they would even think of implementing this in the near future before addressing the game breaking bugs which would cause you to lose your ship by no fault of your own is a prime example of why this game is the way it is. Good for someday pre release polishing patch not for alpha

[@thegeneral1955]

It’s ridiculous, there’s bugs in the game that have been around for years yet they are excited to implement this random dumb “feature”? They have a half billion dollars come on

[@KindredBrujah]

Or, to flip that on its head - it's an alpha and this is a system they can test. We don't get to keep what we have right now in the long term, so if they want to test this insurance system now so it's better developed during a future beta, that seems like a good idea.

[@griddycheese]

I just dont get why this is needed the average player would not have fun as they’d be constantly scared for their ship this is so unnecessary and utterly ruins the point of a game this isnt fun

[@KindredBrujah]

@@griddycheese Just don't put the top-tier stuff in your ship then.

[@griddycheese]

@@KindredBrujah how u ever gonna use top tier stuff if ur always cautious of losing it by a bug

[@Mike5Brown]

I think they were saying that the loot only components won't be insurable, store bought components will be. I seem to remember them talking about a mission were 9T was stealing some new prototype crusader component and you are supposed to stop them. Looks like it might also be take them for yourself.

[@malaizze]

If this is true that seems much more reasonable. I actually think this would be mostly alright, if it’s just the unique stuff that gets lost on death. The idea of having to repurchase store bought upgrades is insane.

[@timogul]

I think it would be interesting if on high-risk missions, the "customer" would offer to insure your entire ship, that way allowing you to use your best stuff with lower risk, and given players more incentive to do these. They could also offer a more comprehensive insurance plan as an option, that if you spend more resources on the insurance plan, that it would cover these components, allowing more risk-averse players that safetynet, in exchange for higher overall covers.

[@aarontrew1410]

The problem with salvaging and insuring high demand items is the possibility for exploitation. Get the cool mission with the awesome customer insurance. Attach all of those top of the line legendary loots. Have a friend "accidentally" destroy your ship and salvage all of your top of the line latest and greatest best in slot equipment. Effectively a cheese dupe

[@timogul]

@@aarontrew1410 True. Maybe they could make it so that if you're on one of the "customer insured" jobs, then all your fancy rare loot gets vaporized in the fight, or just gets downgraded to more neutral stuff. I think that even in general, looters should not get 100% of the value of the ship, right? So the "paid super insurance" option would cost more than the value of the amount of loot a pirate would get off the ship, so it would never break even for that, but would be cheaper than the owner losing _all_ those parts. There has to be a fair balance in there someplace.

[@benlee8225]

@@timogul the super rare ones get replaced at the station thus ones on ship got destroyed and thus salvagers and or exploits get junk

[@eramires]

One day I came out of Lorville with my ship and did a very slow ascend, just admiring the scene, and suddenly I got the red alert about invading a private airspace and suddenly I was back on my bed and my ship kept flying and crash landed on the desert. I went there trying to board it, but the game did not allow me to do it. So basically I lost that ship. 😞 Stuff like this happen so often. 😕

[@chloekaftan]

first rule of daydreaming in star citizen, always have an escape plan. if you're gonna leisurely fly over a planet admiring the view, then at least make sure your ship is pointing near or at a quantum travel node with the QT drive fully spooled up pre-emptively, and have your power distribution biased at shields at all times unless you get interdicted, if you get interdicted the only option left is to blast away in one direction with power distro biased to engines to create a gap and either decouple to shoot back while drifting away from them, or frantically get away from the interdiction bubble and QT at the earliest opportunity. years of getting gang r@3pd by pirates in this game has taught me never too be too careful.

[@Overlegen]

On the fence on this one. It has potential, but there are some caveats also. I hope they consider what we use our precious game time on. I’m a casual gamer, and right now I find that when I wanna play with my friends, I usually have to fly to several places and run around buying stuff for 30min-1 hour, just so that everyone is at the same place with the correct gear.

[@springbok8876]

It's better to stockpile gear beforehand, that way you can just equip and go, same goes for your friends. At this point if a friend of mine hasn't stockpiled gear and has to go buy gear taking 30 mins to an hour that's on him. I'll carry on playing doing my own thing rather than waiting for him to get his arse in gear.

[@ThreeGoddesses]

@@springbok8876 I mean it still spending minutes and hours stockpiling things, its not making any difference outside of when your doing it. And you will likely have to continue stockpiling on occasion which is the same time investment, just less frequently and more condensed.

[@springbok8876]

@@ThreeGoddesses Sure but you need to stockpile up enough to last you a good while this way you won't need to visit the store for dozens of game sessions. Rather than having to visit it every time you die.

[@ThreeGoddesses]

@@springbok8876 i mean, your not wrong I was just commenting under the assumption that they couldn't play all the time so their online time is basically served either stockpiling or being productive with friends

[@CyberKnightX21]

Plus, if there are a casual gamer, you've got to consider that they might not be out there making millions of bucks on a regular run. They might not have the money to go around stockpiling everything. Especially if they have less than a high end rig. It might take them half an hour to an hour just to get in and out of a station or planet.

[@cosmos6269]

At this point in development, trying to implement such a hardcore insurance mechanic is just unnecessarily brutal. There are many different (and frankly cooler) ways they could have balanced out the different "roles" in the star citizen universe, instead of just relying on the fear of ship destruction. For example, in the future, engaging in player killing or piracy could result in you being "stuck" in pirate controlled systems such as grim hex, or middle of nowhere uncharted space. Where if you enter UEE controlled space/systems, there is potential for a whole squadron of sentinel ships to chase you down depending on your pirate reputation. Also, the role of bounty hunting pirate players could be made more lucrative as well. For merchants and traders, the balance could be if you stick to legal goods, and common trading routs, only a super-coordinated heavily armed pirate fleet/squad could take you out. The trade off could be that illegal goods cannot be smuggled through UEE trading routs, but the profit is way higher, leaving smugglers at a higher risk of piracy, for the potential of huge profits. Additionally, this update would seriously hinder the PVP, dueling, and dogfighting community of the game. As this is just a monumental headache and "wall" placed in the way of the fun for a large portion of the community. A final note, is this update would be the ruin of anyone who has zero PVP experience and wishes to delve into that aspect of the game. I've never seen a bigger deterrent from partaking in general PVP/dueling than "gear fear" or the fear of permanently losing valuable items that are integral to the PVP itself. This is overly punishing to people who want to learn PVP while using an upgraded ship, where players who have already mastered the PVP will now be fighting a way larger majority of people in stock ships. There are honestly to many ways to explain how this system could be a bad thing. I hope CIG abandons this system and aims for a more creative solution in the future.

[@cosmos6269]

ADDITIONAL NOTE, I'm not saying that a permeant loss system, or rework of insurance should never be a part of the game. I can easily see how that kind of system could be appealing for some players. I just believe the game needs to be way more fleshed out and polished before a system like this would even be considered. The aim currently should be to improve the game (especially the stability), and add to the experience, not to just add more headaches for players.

[@ONYX1768]

I wonder if this will come with a re-work to the stock loadout of the reliant tana as it's default loadout comes with a powerplant that isn't strong enough stock.

[@handsomehatter3413]

I love the idea of adding more consequences to actions, but I fear that implementing these changes at this stage in development poses a substantial risk of turning off players. It's one thing to lose gear for legitimate gameplay decisions, but it's another thing entirely to lose said gear due to a bug. It's this latter case that could very much ruin a player's enjoyment of the self-improvement 'grind'.

[@Vivicect0r]

This will make PvP player attacking PvE players be even more unbalanced since PvP players will spend money on those top tier components and PvE players won't risk it. Also, ships do get blown a lot near caves, small bases, due to bugs, etc... Where you can't do much about it. Also, bugs. Bugs will screw this over. Like, when you crash or the server crashes and your ship stays there "somewhere" and you wake up on a station.

[@scribblescrabble3185]

atm when the server chrashes, your ships will be stored at your primary location.

[@auklon3372]

​@@scribblescrabble3185 if thats is your only ship and your across the system you will have to claim it.

[@modusponen1447]

You're right. PVE players will have a harder time and PVP players will enjoy killing them even more. The times the death marker has bugged on me far outweighs the times I've been able to return and loot my stuff. I won't buy armor anymore because I just lose it and now I won't be buying parts.

[@maxdoesntsurrender6642]

Pvp players are fine, you can take the white jump suit approach and just use default ship load outs maybe just changing the guns on light fighters. Not like PvE fighters ever really fight back anyways…

[@dbtowey]

I'll still kill you with a stock Gladius, sorry.

[@viceroy3016]

I'd like to see a system where you can insure whatever you have but it cost credits to do so. You'll still feel the pain of a lose but you aren't handicapped until you are able to re-loot those components. They could even cap the amount of times and item can be insured, make each item separately insurable, or have an escalating cost per lose. There are many ways to implement a system that makes it costly to enter combat and lose but not so harsh that only the hardcore will do it.

[@OgLockpin]

Wonder if you'll basically be insured for weapons and components that you paid for in the store. Like the 300 series of ships, where you can purchase a weapons package for the ship.

[@THarSul]

I doubt this idea would be part of their first pass, cause it’s clear they have an idea they want to work towards, but i anticipate a significant amount of community backlash once they bring this change in, with fewer people customizing their ships, and the majority of people flying with their ship’s equivalent to the white undersuit, meaning very few people will be using the system they spent all this time designing, all because they wanted to punish people even harder for glitches and personal failures. Feels the same as the change to the personal inventory, where they’ve added unneeded wrinkles to make things harder for no discernible reason, and it makes me a little sad, cause i liked running around in a custom outfit that had a style i really liked, but after the change to the inventory, i never wear it anymore, for fear that i’ll die while wearing it, losing the gear, and i fully expect the same thing will happen with ships now, with only the most insufferable tryhards actually bothering to upgrade their components. In light of these changes, i sincerely hope they make optional insurance for found items, where we can choose to insure them on an item-to-item basis, tho it should be very expensive, like, at least half the value of the component, that way, if we deck out a ship with a bunch of custom parts, it’s possible to get it back, but it could cost tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of aUEC depending on the number and quality of custom parts we’ve installed, so that there is an option to get the parts back more easily, but only at incredible expense to the owner. All i know is that if i spent a ton of time customizing every piece of my ship, and then got blown up by a glitch or troll with a torp ship, there’s a distinct possibility that i’ll just ragequit for the night, which is symptom of bad game design; you can call that a personal failing if you want, but if a game’s method for punishing players for dying is so extreme that they don’t want to play anymore, it does not bode well for the long term lifespan of that game.

[@iwantbrains]

not even just that you have some ships like the banu defender which have a stock weapon loadout that is so bad the only thing stopping it from being "literally unusable" is that fact that you can TECHICALLY use it.

[@EwanMarshall]

Indeed, there are too many issues trying to retrieve player gear currently in star citizen, for example a crash in armistice zone does not spawn the crate. These need to not be an issue.

[@antonharmacinski276]

So the take away I got from this was don't bother wasting time or money upgrading ships (or really anything in SC). I've lost more [insert whatever] in SC because of the game's stability and glitches than any other reason. Even subscriber and pledge items. (They will get them back to you if you file a help ticket, but only because real money is involved and it's still eating away your time.) There's no point in upgrading anything if dying while exiting the elevator or tripping on some ramp or stairs on a planet side location landing pad. I just started playing again a few weeks ago after about a 6-9 month hiatus. It already sucks to grid away to get the things you want just to loose it during a wipe, (I had a CuttyB, both Talons, a Titan, and a Freelancer I think, alongside my pledges, all gone after the wipes.) but that's life and sort of a know part of the game. The closer SC comes to Eve online, the less attractive it becomes to play. I am now wondering if I should just return the new flight stick I bought, just uninstall the game, and call it a loss. Hearing this may have just cost 2 companies money, 3 if you count the vendor that sold me the flight stick. I can see a version of this working, but not covering the components is like buying a policy that does not cover "acts of god" from an entity that believes everything happens according to the will of the lord, therefore everything is an "act of god." Ie. nothings covered but we'll take your money. This news really took the wind out of my sails. :( I at least take some comfort knowing that next week, they could have a whole new plan, or better plan in regards to the players. Nothing is SC is written in stone.

[@felian9562]

I'm expecting or rather hoping for a multi tier insurance system, that accounts for ships bought with real money differently than ships bought with aUEC, where components can be insured in higher tiers. But yes, more people will fly with stock ships. This will still produce interesting data for estimated insurance prices and player acceptance. Hopefully this strict only until the next patch.

[@JLBeaugh]

Definitely not their first pass... however....backlash.. not so certain..... Eve Online does the same thing and while expensive, elite groups still use hard to get components and place them in their ships.

[@tragedy6310]

Losing fps gear from stores was probably my least favorite change that CIG has done to date, followed by the local inventory stuff. Losing components as well is insane. FPS gear was fine. To fully rearm again, it's maybe 5k UEC to do so. Buying components, and not even the best ones? Depending on the ship and upgrades you do, that can be anywhere from 50k to 200k UEC. That's stupid. To lose all that? I mean, it sucks as someone who plays pvp regularly because it's the only fun I have found in this game now, but as someone who might just be randomly attacked? They could have no chance to win the fight, and then they've gotta spend their paycheck for new ship components that they wouldn't have otherwise lost? I think that change will make a good portion of the playerbase just stop playing.

[@billywashere6965]

Good. If you want Call of Duty style gameplay then stick with Call of Duty. Making it where you can lose valuable components on your ship means players will have to think TWICE about griefing, trolling, and how the game is played. Players will be far LESS likely to play like it's Call of Duty.

[@tragedy6310]

@@billywashere6965 Okay goofy. PvP is a big portion of this game. It's gonna make people like you who want to watch planets or something leave because the people who want to actually mess around? *They'll* spend the time salvaging those components and then they'll rinse all the casuals. 'Cause they have the better components. I'm not saying I want CoD. Screw CoD. I just wanted a cool spaceship game where I could do what I want, not a space life sim when I could go out and touch grass

[@billywashere6965]

@@tragedy6310 Dude, Star CItizen is a massive game (space wise). According to CIG, PvP accounts for less than 3% of player interactions in the game. This whole thing of sweaties going around rinsing casuals and carebears is only an issue that Redditors and KZbin commenters believe is a thing. PvP RARELY happens in Star Citizen save for the people who seek it out.

[@tragedy6310]

@@billywashere6965 Yeah and I seek it, so watch out goofy

[@rexanator100]

@@tragedy6310 🤓

[@FrazzleCat]

Love the quality of your videos Morph. Regarding the insurance, however, it's only going to *encourage* ramming. Simply remove anything that you want to keep beforehand, then fly with a stripped-down ship to ram people. It's only the other players who will suffer from this change, not the griefers, and thus all the more reason for them to ram.

[@operator8014]

As in the modern world, if something irreplaceable is insured and a claim is filed, you don't get a replacement of that item, but you instead get the money that item was appraised to be worth. If these super rare attachments work the same way, then you'll get your ship back without that item attached, plus 150,000 credits or whatever your insurer valued it at.

[@brewskiproductionslasvegas]

I'm worried about the things we buy in game with real world money. Those things should never be truly lost. There has to be an in game way to get it back, but any ship or item bought and lost forever in 5 minutes due to a pirate would be grounds for a lawsuit. That's probably the reason why CIG didn't make it possible to buy UEC with real word money. They will have to tread very lightly on real world purchases.

[@TPKPatchy]

On the one hand this sounds pretty interesting and exciting new loot, actual loss on death and more fun stuff from that. Big issue for me though is how unstable the game can be. You can get desync issues that spawn asteroids in your face, and bugs where no matter how many flair's you shoot you won't dodge a missile. Or bugs where weapons don't recharge properly. Yeah it's an alpha BUT for me I wish penalising mechanics would come later in the process so we aren't being penalised for things that aren't out fault.

[@djurdjevpredrag]

Really good comment. I just can't understand their decision making

[@detpackman]

there have been more than enough times where a ship can bug and the only way to "repair" the issue is to claim the ship or destroy then claim , you can have a ship that inoperable unrepairable in what there talking about you would loose ALOT more due to that type of thing and we know CIG is nowhere near at the point where ships wont just break like this

[@alleycatlordoflunes9689]

I'm not sure about the fewer ships ramming part. I think you'll see some players using their ships as ballistics again against players who they can't take out in a straight up combat fight. Which would be an increase in ramming rather than a decrease. However the good thing about this is that the combat will probably more often branch away from the spawn locations as a result causing an indirect no fire zone type effect. The ramming as such might get more complicated for the rammers, just don't think it'll decrease.

[@martinschemmel84]

I think there could be an individual insurance for component that kind of plays out like in Tarkov. before a mission you insure equipment in a kind of recovery contract. If nobody picks up your component for a certain time, it despawns and goes back to your inventory. So it's not really a insurance, but for a fee you can hope for the best

[@stormwolf3255]

I like most of this as a long term intention with respect to not getting upgraded components back when you replace a ship - right now ships are still being lost far too regularly to bugs / game crashes. I am also not a fan of some components / weapons only being lootable: these weapons have to be produced in a factory somewhere (even if it's in another star system 20 jumps away. Sure, make them more exclusive through pricing and / or production rates, but don't 'magically' limit their appearance in the game to 'champion NPC' spawns...if those champion NPCs are supposed to be treated just like players then they too must have had a means by which they could buy (or loot) those weapons from somewhere

[@ajneuschwander8928]

This! What happened to realism and immersion in the game? I'm all here for stuff not being purchasable in most or any shops in Stanton because they are produced in Killian or Charon, but make it logical and make sense (looking at you, Microid Battle Armor). I don't care if looting them is easier, but there should be a store option somewhere

[@magosryzak7477]

Tbf, I think that military grade components, outside of weapons, should be hard to get. Maybe go farming UEE Navy is the way to get them. Then this opens up the door for 'modified' components which are special variations with tradeoffs for a special attribute. Could make loot-only components worth checking for if special shield generators with super high recharge rates are available

[@Daze78]

@@ajneuschwander8928 Well, some stuff is impossible to get in shops even in real life, for example weapons and other military gear, especially high priced stuff like jet fighters, not sure if even black market would help you with that. Cuz some stuff is produced exclusively for professional use by accredited organizations and trained people.

[@stormwolf3255]

@@magosryzak7477 Acqusition of mil-spec components should be reputation based with various NPC factions. This gives you a real good reason to choose a faction and stay (reasonably) loyal to their ethos as you'll want to maintain access to their restricted gear.

[@PaladinStem]

This is moving more towards what they have stated they want with insurance coverage changing based off the safety level of the system. I believe the system we play in now is supposed to be mid sec and Pryo will be the lowest so maybe we will see different coverage between systems. The only problem I can still see is bugs killing you more often than hostiles.

[@aka-47k]

dont worry if the components will be lucrative, and they will be, soon everywhere will be 10 pirates camping to hunt you, then you wont die to bugs so much anymore, since pirates will kill you before you can play to get a bug.

[@igorborracini5722]

It wasn't too clear in the video, but are the non-insurable components only the npc loot-only ones that are more powerful or also the normal ones shops sell? Like will I be able to insure a basic all laser loadout on a cutlass or will it go back to the standard half ballistic half laser after it gets destroyed?

[@tomsittler1791]

I remember the old days when no equipment stayed. I flew around in base model ships with base model equipment, because experimenting with higher end gear was painful and unsustainable. I hope they will allow insurance to cover up to class B components, with class A components (or even class S someday) only found in loot tables. Otherwise, there's no incentive to experiment with better weapons or equipment aside from maybe living a bit longer in an unexpected PVP fight. On balance, I don't think it's time yet to mess with component rarity any more than they already have. To borrow your car analogy a bit, there isn't any logical incentive for a company to produce a product and then not sell that product to as wide an audience as has the means to afford it. Especially in the "civilian" or "industrial" component classes. I could see top-tier military or stealth components being harder to come by, and there's an argument that top-tier Competition components should be a bit rare, but certainly the top tier industrial or civilian components should be available on store shelves and 100% insurable.

[@Runivis]

9:14 Except that when you log off, if you don't get back into the exact same server when you log on, your stored ship is reset back to its default weapons state. Internal components are retained though, for some reason.

[@skyshroudace]

As you describe it, this will make things worse, not better. Pad ramming will now be a profitable task. Also, yes dying from bugs is less than it used to be, but still a HUGE problem. I mean, 1.18.2 had the bug where the Cutlass would kill you simply by entering the seat. I think this is an idea that looks good on paper, but bad in practice.

[@jimby812]

I don’t think that’ll be the case. The ship has to be in soft death, ramming does not place ships in that state since it outright destroys the ships (based on my testing)

[@billywashere6965]

Nah. This is basically Tarkov for space ships.

[@zyloctal]

This was the foundation of ultima online, it makes you travel in a pack, and only go places you trust solo. Or take a risk and have the rush if you go about alone.

[@imushavem4061]

@@zyloctal But where do you have a solo place that you can trust in Star Citizen? There are no really safe zones link in Ultima online.

[@zyloctal]

@@imushavem4061 Ultima online did not start with safe zones, people could steal from you in the city, you had to call guards if you caught them stealing as it would put a text on your screen. Also solo areas are all areas that have no jump points, much harder to be tracked, and if you have stealth engines and shields your nearly invisible. once we get more life skills and crafting in the game that is.

[@wile-e-coyote7257]

Thanks, Morphologis!

[@inahokaizuka8587]

im about to get star citizens and i was wondering about the insurance, does the time run out or is it a feature that hasnt been released yet, becuase there isnt anything in the game that tells me how to buy more insurance in case it runs out.

[@TT_PLEB]

I think they should do a base insurance that gets you back the base ship and then a more expensive one that keeps any of the purchasable components, but looted components can't ever be insured

[@Fletchman1313]

I'd actually go one step further and offer basic FPS equipment coverage. So for example, I could have a Nomad insured with an undersuit, a full suit of armor, a weapon, and a multitool all covered under the same premium and delivered with the ship. Or if I had a C8R I could add a medgun. Etc.

[@WatcherXP]

maybe that is what will separate 120 months from LTI

[@Noiprox90]

Could also add a claim cost to those insurances, at a % set of total cost. to make it not totaly free to be reckless with the gear/ships. Ofc the players that get rich and got nothing better to do are not impacted by the exstra fee, but it could potential lessen the reckless players. If im not remembering correctly back in the day of development the included insurence on ships where to replace it as it are, including all components that you bought. But if you swaped those out you would need another insurance to cover those. Where also talk about a cargo insurance to cover what ever you got in the cargo hold. Problem is that to much of the penaltys are beeing implemented and not the insurance parts that are to reduce the losses.

[@polymloth]

That’d be hard to implement without creating a money-making loophole because of soft death and salvageable components. Unless the insurance fee was adjusted based on the component resale value.

[@hyperionzii5889]

I think they should build a game that works before they start with insurance, what a joke.

[@skatman3278]

Basically, nobody will use the top tier components. It's another pointless, dumb move. They should be insurable, but there should be a premium fee to pay. Also, if someone steals them and you claim on the insurance, then a bounty should be placed on the players head who stole them with the a retrieval notice put on. Someone else can then retrieve the components and sell them back to a store to clear the insurance loop.

[@llawlied6902]

Makes me wonder about PvP too like imagine loosing because the opponent just had better components he looted

[@skatman3278]

@@llawlied6902 if that happened, then I would be too bothered because having better components is just part of the game. But I simply don't think anyone will fit better components to their ship in case the lose them. Either accidentally or on purpose. So they'll just sit in someone's inventory.

[@llawlied6902]

@@skatman3278 either this or ppl attack ppl that can't really fight back like industrial ships It's weird there's so much gear in SC but the longer I play it the less is available without spending an hour looting just to then loose it the day after to a random bug why does every modern game need to have a focus on looting can't we just play the game

[@user-wc9gg5jp4m]

So what happens right now after your insurance runs out do you still get your ships back or are they gone forever

[@toomuchdiesel]

I hope they keep store bought components insurable and rare tier components found in verse non insurable. But the cascade effect the change will have in the Verse which you so greatly describe is what I look forward to most.

[@MatsJPB]

I've stopped getting armour since I'm to tired of loosing it all the time. Gonna stop getting ship upgrades now as well I guess. And eventuelly, I suppose I'll just have to stop flying cause I'll just loose my ship. I'm guess I'm just to much of a casual for what this game wants to be. I need my training wheels and my dripp proof sippycup, dang it!

[@Gotteule]

I have to claim ships 2-3 times a day because of bugs. We can talk about such a system as soon the game is stable.

[@ShawnLustig]

good example.. I was at a mining facility earlier with my C2. Bug#1- elevator refused to open for me; so I opened the front ramp and stood on it for it to take me down. Bug#2- the ramp shook me off, I fell, then while looking around and trying to get up and out of the way of the ramp, the ramp actually killed me. Bug#3- When I came back to the facility (which My ship could have been looted of its guns) the ship was no longer detected by the facility as if I had claimed it which I did not. So in this scenario, I did nothing wrong and could have lost my ship and all of its upgrades because of a "bug or two"?

[@citizenkane4382]

Do you use some kind of hdr for your videos ?

[@IrocZIV]

I always assumed insurance would only cover what you bought the ship with. I suppose they could give you an additional insurance option for loadouts, based on their value. Some components could be "one of a kind" and while you might be able to have a value insured, the part itself would not be replaced.

[@mavendorf121]

well if you think about it. take eve online for instance as an example. the way insurance works in that if you are ganked/destroyed.. is that if your sure were insured. then you would get the full or almost the value of what it cost. now yes you will be able to claim your ship in game. thing is in sc that costs auec.. and replacing weapons and components would also cost auec. so they could go down a similar route to how eves insurance works.. where you get one big bulk sum of auec. that way you could replace the components.. or atleast some of the stuff. im a casual pve/exploration sc player myself. i dont do pvp etc etc.

[@blacksheepboyz]

​@@mavendorf121 luckily this is SC, we have a chance to make insurance to cover everything you have insured.

[@vokundodinok5992]

Well this was how insurance was supposed to work, and maybe this is still the end goal. You have your basic insurance which costs like practically nothing, and only covers the ship's hull and default loadout as it comes from the "factory". Then you can upgrade your insurance to cover weapons/components fitted, so that even though you pay more when you claim your ship, it comes back exactly as it was, no need to hunt down components all over again. Then there's cargo insurance, which is just for those cases where you're hauling a lot of valuable cargo. In the event that something happens, that cargo insurance you bought would cover like, 80-90% of the cargo's value, paid directly to you so it's loss isn't such a massive blow.

[@blacksheepboyz]

@@vokundodinok5992 Then what is lifetime insurance that we paid for?

[@vokundodinok5992]

@@blacksheepboyz so most insurance will only cover for 6 months, lifetime means you never have to renew the policy. Kinda like how it works in Elite. Not sure, but I think it also covers components and weapons fitted. Might want to verify that though

[@Banzai431]

While it's fine to test the functionality, I think it feels rather punishing and will only push people not to bother changing their standard components. There are so many parts of the game that are simply... Not there yet. They are still working on the flight model even at this stage. There is absolutely no sign of ship armor at all. They haven't even touched weapon balancing. I could go on the list is as long as my arm. As you mentioned Morph, there's still random ship explosions happening. Implementing something like this, early on, while so much is still incomplete... It will just discourage people from trying out different components and have the opposite effect desired for testing.

[@TheIceJester]

100% agree with you.

[@PaddyyYY]

Sometimes it feels like they really don't want people to earn alot of ingame credits. In this case by selling components (and keeping your own on death). Basically anything that removes the need/incentive to buy ships for real money.

[@iljajekimov4997]

​@@TheIceJester can you both please apply for work at CIG so we have someone from Earth working in theyr office and explain them this simple topic!?

[@k.g.3567]

​@@iljajekimov4997 I empathize with you on your frustration. It seems like CIG and some parts of the community are forgetting, that Star Citizen is ultimately still a game first and foremost, and games are supposed to be fun.

[@readyforlol]

They're like 7 years late on the game design front, iterating code and visuals all the time but not making progress anywhere else, and they finally decide to get on that but start by the single part that relies the most on everything else being in place already. It makes no sense. It's like introducing PES without any plans to let players get rid of their trash. It's like they don't even try to anticipate what their changes will do to the player experience.

[@averybowles5953]

So if I'm flying around with my tricked out ship and happen to disconnect or crash, if I happen to wake up at my spawn point or last area I landed at, am I going to have to claim a brand new basic ship with no upgrades whatsoever, or wander around looking for where my ship was?

[@CosmicTurtle13]

how would this affect paints that you buy or get from events like the best in show paints at the IAE?

[@overcast80]

DeadlySlob had an interesting idea that they could add another tier of insurance. something like premium insurance that would allow players to claim their ship with every looted component for much more cost and much less time effectively killing the profit of a destroy your own ship, and loot it exploit. this also may alleviate some of the pain from dying to an invisible asteroid or random explosion, and for those who just don’t wanna loot the corpse of their ship.

[@bobL761]

That isn't even his own idea. CIG themselves have been saying for YEARS that multiple tiers of insurance would be a thing. For them to go back on that plan now really sucks.

[@overcast80]

@@bobL761 i mean he doesnt know that.

[@SafetyRabbit]

I'm in favour of these changes in theory. Perhaps if it wasn't such a chore to gather items and get everything equipped and setup. For now though, there is simply no possible, conceivable way this will be anything approaching enjoyable. So far this year, for me at least, I'd say 99% of ship losses were purely bug related. I'm NEVER going to equip anything I might lose. There will be zero testing of that functionality ;)

[@urg6923]

yeah exactly, imagine losing a C2 and having to track back to the other side of the system to install a better QT drive ? You're talking 10 minutes of just waiting in QT just because.

[@johnsmithwesson9996]

If I could have a hangar with a big storage area for hardpoints and internal components, maybe I'd be interested because then I could have a mechanic game loop for my ships

[@korniestpatch]

It’s only coming after 3.19, we cannot predict the state of bugs. But right now combat has the least amount of risk in SC. This change is fantastic balancing that out. There is literally 0 difference between me flying around buying commodities than any other combat pilot getting geared. Except I lose my investment combat pilots do not.

[@SafetyRabbit]

@@korniestpatch You're not wrong, and I do think this is the way to go in the long run. I think I can safely predict my 99% ship loss to bugs will continue for the forseeable future though, as it has pretty much always been that way since 3.0. I'm not a combat pilot myself and the VLM has been broken for me for years, so I got used to just stock loadouts.

[@SenhorSus]

A middle-ground off the top of my head would be for the ship claim screen to have both the ship and the loot table components. The ship claim would still be the normal money and time layout but the loot table components would also be claimable but for a considerable amount of money and time...kind of like mimicking a special order for an item that's on back order. Money could be in the multiple hundreds of thousands range.

[@tcunero]

Hmm... I'm not sure how I feel about this with weapons just not being available to purchase anywhere. I think its a good idea for perhaps some types of weapons (like an outlawed style of weapon) but I think this should be rare.

[@pxkqd]

They should at least allow insurance for buy-able components. Stock QT drives for some ships are almost unusable due to speed or lack of fuel.

[@krisghoststar]

I like the idea that components are reset to stock, I worry that the bugs will stop anyone even trying. I landed at New Babbage and the hangar doors closed. Asop then said claim and it didn't know where my ship was. Another time the ship spawned 30 meters outside the hanger in the air. I feel these need to be addressed before they implement the penalties.

[@carstenschops7797]

One benefit of getting the items back with insurance was not having to refit your ship all the time. So in addition to the wait timers I will then have to spend time re-equipping (at least I am active during that time) and even shuttling around bringing the needed components to where I need them. That'll be a major hassle unless you have a big ship which can fit them.

[@DontWantAHandle]

Exactly. I stopped playing with my starter account due to being bored of losing my loadout and sinking all my money in it. But at least that was a bug, among the thousand there are. This changes just makes me feel like I will never bother to change my loadout, as looting weapons will vanish the same, and sell the weapons to get money… that I won’t bother to use hence stop playing SC once more.

[@itsjustmetal316]

so im still fairly new to SC so for bought ships with real money is the insurance changing on those?

[@yogi_jtl]

Thank you for your thoughts

[@black2burn211]

They'll need to roll this out along with a global market/exchange. I hope they take their time with this implementation....

[@d4079925]

Implementing Legendary (A+) class or S-Class that are uninsurable, as opposed to making Grade-A uninsurable, would be an easier pill for everyone to swallow, as it won't be seen as a nerf, but an expansion. Manufactured goods should always be insurable, whereas prototypes, custom made and masterpieces can't.

[@readyforlol]

This is the only way to do this that wouldn't destroy the game.

[@wavion2]

This.

[@anacreon212]

I think this is a sign that the insurance system rework is on the horizon. IIrc they have said they want there to be levels of insurance. The basic insurance the gives you ship with stock components back (which is the insurance that comes with the ship pledge and can be extended with auec in game) and the premium insurance that insures the ship with its loadout both buyable with auec. Then the type of insurance that insures your fps gear.

[@Lance_Arn]

Ever since 3.18.0 dropped into the 1PTU, I have been flying in stock ships, not upgrading any guns or components at all. I have done this to prepare myself for this, the eventuality of losing upgraded components whenever I need to claim my ship, whether it be due to attacks or collisions, or CTD, or 30k, or whenever I need to claim the ship from another location.

[@Zasfarr]

Low tier and Mid tier components will NEED to still be insurable. My case: This will cause a slow melt of all ships that are annoying in their "vanilla form". Not bad, but annoying, for example the Vanguard Harb's useless missile gunner turret and others of the like - will all be replaced by ships that come with laser repeater equivalents and less annoying default loadouts.

[@805Peej]

I highly doubt that it will reduce pirating. It will just cause pirates to use default ship loadouts. Overall, it seems that we are headed towards an Ultima Online style GANK-EVERYTHING, GANK-EVERYWHERE style of anarchy

[@csdigitaldesign]

I agree, if anything this will increase piracy.

[@DarkKnight-bu4xu]

@@csdigitaldesign That's the best news I've heard. I want more player interaction when I do cargo runs. It's so much more fun when I have to fight to protect my cargo. Most players that attack me think im a PVE'er but I know how to fight. So when I blow them up and send them back to the hospitle it feels real good. More pirates equals more risk which equals more fun. If risk bothers anyone they should go find a single player game.

[@holy8782]

​@@DarkKnight-bu4xuJust a heads up. That's a fast way to murder your playerbase.

[@cthulhu8977]

It's already a pain to restock a multi crew ship. Some of which requires visiting multiple stations. Now also losing any upgrades your ship has means... "why bother?" CIG constantly trying to reinvent the wheel, how about get component / sub component repair, live swapping etc? Use some of those very limited man hours (thanks SQ42) and do things that make better gameplay instead of more punishing gameplay. Good ideas for a finished game; but this one only has 40%-ish of the intended gameplay loops working.

[@GeneralHiro]

I’ve thought about this before and I think: Component Components 🤔 could solve the issue. You can have a wide range of components for sale from the store. But they are like the mining lasers where they have slots you can use to upgrade them. With the difference being that applying an upgrade to a component is: A: Permanent. And B: uninsurable. So this gives flexibility at all levels. You can use the stock components and get them covered with insurance, then you can buy upgrades for those components which are not covered by insurance. This allows you to “insure” your base build while still risking your “upgrades”

[@0Cruik0]

Yeah, I agree that shop items should stay insurable. If you can't insure any of it anymore I think we'll just end up right back at no one using aftermarket components because it isn't worth the risk anymore. I think even PVPers aren't gonna want to take the chance after awhile. There will have to be a middle ground IMO. And as others have already pointed out, there's still too many bugs. Yeah its better than it used to be, but it still says a lot that my primary cause of death during this latest run of Xenothreat was hitting invisible asteroids while flying.

[@ThePyroRussian]

I mean how do you do a player economy when you loose stuff it magically gets spawned in?

[@DaedalusRaistlin]

I think that the PvP'ers will have meta gear, since they can profit a lot more off killing people by getting all those modules, which should offset the higher costs of the meta stuff. I don't want to get stuck in a cycle of dying because my loadout is subpar, and every time I try to outfit a better one, someone with a lot of UEC and top end gear kills me and wastes any upgrades I might have gotten.

[@shippy1001]

People will just run default loadouts, PvP`ers will just go in higher numbers, and offset any gear difference, you might be fully kitted-out but its 3v1 so you`ll lose all the components, and if they die, no issues, it was default ship anyway, it`s Lose or Lose situation for anyone that is not a Pirate or PvP`er to run anything but a stock ship. It`s like that D.Trump meme, "sounds good, doesn`t work".

[@korniestpatch]

Then claiming insurance should give me my commodities back too. Combat pilots have the least risk in SC and it’s about time combat got risk added to it. It’s unfair as a space trucker that every run I do comes at a far greater risk than a pirate has, even if I buy mercs to protect me, the pirate will just get off with a 5 min claim time, but if I lose my cargo or ship I lose all of most of my investment. People need to stop thinking about SC as a combat only game, there are other players that put way more risk into the game.

[@shippy1001]

@@korniestpatch Indeed, it is unfair and unbalanced, CIG is just stupid if they think that by adding more to a loss will improve the game, it will just increase pirates and griefers, since it`s literally the optimal way to play the game, why risk something when you can just take from other players? Examples of games that tried this and failed: New World, Mortal Online 1 and 2, and some others... The ones that "work" like Rust, shows that it can only work by repeatable cycles and full-wipes, since bigger guilds will eventually take over the server and prevent any new players to build themselves up. Plus the fact that you can buy a stealth bomber that one shot kills almost any ship in the game and ignores flares/noise, there`s no point defense turrets and no way to avoid unless you just QT jump away, which the player can follow you.

[@korniestpatch]

@@shippy1001 combat pilots have it extremely easy right now, I’ve been dealing with bugs while risking UEC already. Whether it increases pirating or “griefers” it evens out the playing field, and it gives me even more incentive to hire a merc or two as bodyguards for trading, because pirates will now have something to lose, and if they lose, the mercs im paying and I win because we now get components from the dead pirates.

[@shippy1001]

@@korniestpatch not if they are running default load outs, and you are losing from the start if you have to hire security.

[@KindredBrujah]

I think they should have purchasable items able to be insured but only entry-level stuff is available to start off with. There should then be a mid-tier set of purchasable items which are linked to reputation. For example, perhaps when you reach T5 reputation with Hurston Security, you are able to purchase their Attritions but before that point you can only buy a lower tier of Hurston weaponry. Finally there is a set of loot-only gear, which is the top-tier gear, either military hardware which is not available for public sale or gear which has been improved through customisation (either by players at some point in the future or just by NPCs in the short term). This gear cannot be insured because it isn't available for general sale.

[@bishounenpooru]

Hoping the insurance system will have an option to pay more for specified loadout or get the stock loadout for lesser fee

[@RichardMiller-td1bn]

This will change and balance alot of different aspects of the game. Looking forward to see how it all works out

[@struckbydog8629]

This is the epitome of thinking more "more realistic = more fun"

[@Rockyroad321]

i actually dont think this was made for the fun factor. they have to know people wont like the idea so the took the leap of faith solely for realism

[@korniestpatch]

@@Rockyroad321 ok, no. Being a combat pilot has the least amount of risk out of everything in SC. If I go mine something a combat pilot can just come and take that from me at the cost of 5 min of claim time, I have to put UEC into commodities every trade run, I can lose that. What can a combat pilot lose? 5 min of time. So because I would prefer to space truck therefore I need to be penalised by the system. I refuse, it’s about time combat got some penalties.

[@IrocZIV]

Did you watch the video? Its not about realism, its about making sure there is a higher risk for piracy.

[@korniestpatch]

@@IrocZIV higher risk for combat pilots in general.

[@IrocZIV]

@@korniestpatch True

[@CircadianCitizen5]

I know nothing of Star Citizen. Trying to get into it. The video was 100% SUPER fucking helpful bro. Thanks so much!

[@Scorch052]

I FUCKING LOVE UPDATES MAKING THIS GAME MORE AND MORE TEDIOUS TO PLAY! Also absolutely hilarious they are talking about doing this immediately after cutting the number of components/weapons available in stores in half in 3.19, likely doubling the length of the shopping trip to pick up your loadout.

[@Abdukctkaz]

Truely an exceptionally terrible change. It takes forever to gear up a ship, and A class gear isn't cheap either.

[@llawlied6902]

Grind for the auec and then spend 1h to fly across the map to buy all the gear because in the far future space Amazon isn't a thing

[@aaronmcintosh2903]

@@llawlied6902 Hard to grind when half the time NOTHING works. Broken trains/shop terminals/ASOP terminals/Elevators/ships that wont move and are dead in space/weapons that dont work/inventory disappearing. The only "grind" Im able to do is stroll around Babbage and window shopping - because it's a complete and utter disaster at this point. Grind he says, lol

[@llawlied6902]

@@aaronmcintosh2903 I would argue that grind isn't decent gameplay where's the high risk high reward stuff or criminal missions that pay very well at why grind reputation for days just to get a decent pay I thought this is a game and not real life

[@llawlied6902]

@Isaac Clarke I feel this sometimes and then I play released games and come back later cuz there's still nothing even close to SC sadly

[@kyarmentari]

This seems pretty bold, as even when the game is running good 80% of my ship losses are due to bugs. At some point yeah this is great, but the game runs so much worse than "good" now.

[@-Bile-]

This could encourage players to hoard the lootable parts in inaccessible locations to either artificially decrease their value (assuming their numbers arent limited) or as backup when they die. Furthermore, high level players can camp near the spawn locations of these components and farm new players trying to acquire them. There is no situation in which this change does everyone equal good.

[@Enkidur]

I think this is only going to be intermediary step. Original plan from the "old days" was to add separate component insurance to the hull insurance. Latter would be your usual 6 months or LTI but component insurance would be available for ingame UEC only. This might take some time to work out and implement but I expect that in the future it will be added.

[@_Hylke]

If they are gonna keep removing access to items they really need to introduce reputation based shops/rewards so players can earn access to some of those items back. For instance getting level 5 rep with a security firm should give you access to some military grade components. Not all, but some, keep the really high end stuff for RNG. Currently the only incentive for leveling reputation is earning more money, which will be redundant if they are gonna remove more and more the ability to spend that money. I am honestly dumbfounded they haven't introduced these already, seems like a no-brainer to me that wouldn't be to difficult to figure out with current tech already in the game. Plus it would finally give an incentive to gain reputation of multiple similar factions. If you really want item X you got to level Microtech security, but if you want item Y you need to level Crusader security and so on. As for this feature in and of it self I think it a good way forward but it is too soon. As long as players die because of a buggy game and not by their own failure such a change will always be too soon.

[@DarthPoyner]

I am mostly an FPSer that does bunker missions and the like. I don't normally carry much more than what is necessary to complete those missions. Losing and claiming a ship is no big deal to me. Dying and respawning are also no big deal because I can easily use the default suits and a pistol (or not even) to get into a bunker and then have full heavy armor and multiple guns. It's only when you get sentimental that you run into any lose in that situation. So my first thought of this change is HAHA to the pvpers and people that only want ship combat. BUT, I know that this will eventually affect me as well. I don't disagree with the thought of it, though it will take some balancing. But they really should not be making the game harder with all the current bugs in it. They WILL chase away a portion of the players until they change it if they don't pay attention to what is going on.

[@meyes1098]

But will the insurance still cover components that you buy from actual shops (like platinum bay, dumber depot, etc. which should SUPPOSEDLY be authorized)? And by that I mean, will these components still be on the ship if you claim it?

[@jaikanatar4502]

I think this is a bad idea in general. Even if they had a stable game where you didnt die and already risk your ship due to random bugs. CIG's finger are straying further and further away from the pulse of the playerbase.

[@blindfire101]

sounds like a pain when your flying solo to replace components while bounty hunting

[@NoOneCares2k]

It was mentioned that there would be additional insurance that would cover ship components later in the game during one of the talks with the vehicle team, if I recall correctly. I agree with the base insurance only covering the base vehicle, but with additional insurance for upgraded parts. In my opinion, CIG needs to have the secondary insurance active in the game before making the move to only have the base vehicle available with a claim.

[@The1Overmind]

It may not be a bad idea to offer separate insurances that you manually have to take out at an inflated cost for the hardware you find in loot tables. That way the individual can perform their own risk assessment on whether it's worth the insurance cost or not.

[@eurito100]

I agree with many , the bugs that can kill you far outweigh the benefits of this system . But once all those bugs are fixed , then this system brings so much to the table including even a new gameplay mechanic where can essentially maybe become a gunrunner where you collect all these rare ship weapons and then maybe sell them to players in a way ? Probably going to take some time to be able to execute this properly but there is a lot of potential .

[@griddycheese]

This just doesn’t seem good if you bought the game to fly spaceships and get in fights this just seems like an unnecessary thing that makes it so much harder on people who wanna have fun

[@gunslingerspartan]

why would anybody want to do that, dealing with an intermediary having to uber eats a laser cannon to you is only getting in the way of me playing the game myself

[@testypresidentgaming]

i think it should come back as a stock ship if it is destroyed buy only when it is destroyed, if u lost it then u should keep all your components edit: if its lost and parts are taken off from salvage then its lost also you get the ship back in the state it is currently in, in the current universe

[@guystreamsstuff7841]

The thing is that if you lost it and it is salvaged, you have duplicated the valuable items.

[@testypresidentgaming]

@@guystreamsstuff7841 yea but once its salvaged its gone, you get it back how it is in the universe when you call it back when its lost

[@TheeEducator]

When will we get the ability to reclaim bought armor though?

[@averyspice69]

What's that ship during the four minute mark morph is flying? Gotta be RSI right?

[@TheWasd1234]

Excited for 3.19. Since its built on the 3.18 code base, I hope that 3.19 will be the stability patch we need prior to server meshing!😊

[@sebastiancoar1991]

If only that's the case. Usually, it takes MASS player complaint and dissatisfaction for the devs to release a bug patch over a update patch.

[@cherpsy3770]

@@sebastiancoar1991 what? they are constantly fixing bugs, do you really think any studio will just ignore all the bugs? they dont release bug patches because they are constantly doing it, with every update.

[@sebastiancoar1991]

@cherpsy I don't know about that. Players are still clipping through planets and space stations when they get out of bed. Players are still unable to properly repair, refuel, and rearm their ships when landing and taking off from starports. Players are still clipping through elevators and ladders and dying inside of their prospectors, prowlers, 600i, etc framework. Players are still crashing into invisible asteroids and debris fields. Player flight suits are still disappearing off of them, resulting in them choking in the vacuum of space. ... Are you sure these issues, from 3.08 forward, are being resolved? Or need I invoke the name of the dreaded 30K?