Most Efficient DIY SOLAR system, Micro Grid tie inverter vs Power limiter + battery vs NET Metering

[@bertbeaulieu5448]

Im impressed with your level of knowledge and ability to explain it so well. People like you are what made this country great. Welcome to the US. I am a new subscriber.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Thank you very much about the nice comment this really made my day and thanks for subscribing

[@RioVistawaterratehistory-wg4ii]

peeling back all the hype of solar power to a REALITY system

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

👍

[@bubbajones4522]

This depends on the state. Many corrupt states allow power companies to rip off users. Texas and Florida for example have true 1:1 net metering programs. If I lived in a state like the one in this video I'd go full off grid with batteries and a backup generator.

[@gormanthomas8135]

This is the most honest financial analysis of solar I've ever seen! I'm in AZ and power is cheap here also. I had fun building a solar system on my RV for off-grid camping. Love the technology. But, trying to justify solar on my residence where cheap grid power is available and reliable - its just not cost effective. Your example with running the AC unit 4-5 months a year was excellent. One other factor I consider when doing the financial calculations for a payback period is the "opportunity cost." In other words, if you spend $5000 on a system and calculate your payback period to be 10 years, you should also consider how that $5000 COULD have worked for you over that 10 year period invested in stocks, bonds, or even high yield savings. Anyway, thanks for a great video!

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Very true. Few people understand my explanation, I'm glad a fellow az-nian is mart enough .. thanks for the comment

[@henrivanbemmel]

Well for the past two years the stock market has not been very helpful ...

[@cheekybastard99]

Name an investment that has a 100% guaranteed return on investment.

[@gsp49]

Why would it take that much? $10,000 would power me and my neighbors.

[@sharjeelsaeed4035]

Glad i found this video. UK is having an energy crisis and my tariff renewal is showing at 60p a kwh in my area up from my old fixed rate of 13.5p. Base usage is around 600W in my house and I was about to go for a whole battery system and 5kw array. Only problem is that I cannot have any grid feedback so i will probably save my money and setup 500w instead using a micro grid tie inverter. So not only am i saving on upfront cost but also able to move it with me when i move houses - something that isn't talked about often with solar.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

yeah im glad there are people that understand what im saying, most people i loose them 10 seconds in the video , these people are switch flippers, they just want to have it easy and not know anything about it !

[@guywhoknows]

The big grids in the UK were always part of the old fit scam. Solar in the day can make a lot of power back to the grid. Companies like SSE buy a kw for 5p. They sell it for 37p to everyone around you... The only thing you need solar for is base power and if you have a battery for night running. So the battery and power are a very simple calculations (made a video) Basically you look at what you use, take off the day time use (solar providing) then add the battery charge. That's all you need from solar not some big array... And tiny batteries which is more common to be sold. 600w base is mad usage. Our house is 200w and it's often lower, day running with everyone doing there thing is around 420. The other way is to put in a system and have it entirely separate.

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

sunshine in UK? I heard it was foggy or raining majority of time

[@sharjeelsaeed4035]

@@kamakaziozzie3038 Rain 80% of the year with spells of sunshine and the 2 week heatwave every summer, december is guaranteed fog and some people are lucky to get 20% generation then

[@johnwyman6126]

You have identified some of the problems with grid tie solar systems. There are more. In order to get around all of those problems, have power when the grid goes down, and get set up for expansion, for slightly more money I would suggest just making an off-grid system. Instead of purchasing a $40 grid tie inverter, my suggestion would be a $15 charge controller and a $50 inverter. Find an inexpensive 12 volt deep cycle battery, or better yet a pair of used golf cart batteries that test still good from a Golf Cart Company. This will give you a great start, be able to use all that the panels produce, and give you experience on how to run a larger system. You can then add panels, batteries, and other components as you can afford them. This will help you to avoid having to ask permission from the utility company, fill out reams of their paperwork, possibly need to get higher insurance, pay any fines that they decide to give you, and deal with them shutting off your electricity. I have heard of all of these things happening. Good luck and be safe.

[@fergman300]

excellent video.....

[@cesaralfredotrejo]

I really like your analysis. I live in Mexico City and here, homes have a great subsidy for the first monthly 75 kWh (0.07$/kWh), a not so great for the next 65, and if you consume more, they'll charge you 0.25USD per kWh. If you consume more than 250kWh per month, your rate rises to 0.38usd/kWh! "Domicilio de Alto Consumo" (High Consumption Residence), and you don't have any subsidy, even if you consume 1kWh. Your normal rate only resets if you stay below 250 for 6 months. The options for "selling" power to the grid are just like the ones available in the US, you need a pretty expensive (and certified) setup and a two phase service (it's a higher consumption setup; a normal home only uses one phase, as nearly no one needs heating, AC or 220V devices). They pay near 0.04usd/kWh for solar energy, so in my opinion, it's not worth it! I'm planning to install a small setup just like yours, to stay below 250 monthly, and ideally, I'll take the benefit of not paying those expensive kWhs if I'm in the range between 140 and 250. So my system should pay for itself while I keep myself in the highly subsidized rate.

[@seanyounk1]

1:55 checking the panel 6:28 Grid tie inverter with power limiter

[@zaneenaz4962]

Using microinverters to cover the base energy (e.g. routers and other constant drains) is very clever. Up to now i've focused on segregating those loads and the lighting of key rooms to a separate circuit feed by my solar and batteries. The refrigerator and freezer are the highest energy loads in our home..... my next target.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Vampire loads , are hard to compensate for them they turn on and off a lot

[@BwanaBob]

Great video and solid advice about the economics of solar. One small detail, the power meter only has one current sensor. Both legs of the 240 line go through it, one of them backwards. The currents sum. If you are drawing 200W on one leg but producing 100W on the other, the meter sees it as 100W consumption. You don't need to worry about balancing as long as the total combined power is not negative.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

That's awesome info man, I'm gonna test out mine see it's that's happening...thanks for that comment

[@BwanaBob]

Here's a video of the inside of a smartmeter: kzbin.info/www/bejne/raWbhX9rorJ4fc0feature=shared

[@tanyampilon604]

Hi, I live in Ontario Canada. I bought a sun gtil 1000w with 1 limiter. I was going to measure L1 on panel and connect inverter output to same leg and trust that inverter will limit power output on that leg. From what your saying this will not work. If I put the inverter output on L2 instead wouldn't that make the limiter current sensor useless?

[@anthonyayala]

You made the perfect point. Base line power consumption is the way to go. Super informative. In Texas we have Reliant and power is free at night so we can cheat by using the base line solar in the day and then running everything else at night. Thanks for what you do.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Thanks for watching

[@danielking2944]

I have that same service. I have off-grid inverter and 50KWH LFP battery. Used solar panels on ground mount that easily generate all I need to cover night time loads. I put a timer on the grid backup for one inverter set to utility first load priority so at 8pm it begins to carry its load and tops off battery for free. A second inverter that runs my HVAC is on SBU that is,Solar first Battery second when solar isn’t enough,then Utility when solar and battery can’t carry the load. Both inverters have PV input. In the rare occasion that the solar input and battery aren’t enough 6am-8pm (which I haven’t seen yet), the HVAC inverter can charge the shared battery bank because it’s on SBU and automatically connects the grid power. The 2 houses I run on this system in Texas in August 2023 destroyed my budget with a $30.02 electric bill.

[@danielking2944]

Grid tie is hard to justify but installers love to promote it to run up the price so their labor gouging is disguised.DIY off grid pays off quickly and gives uninterrupted power which most people are looking for when investing in solar.

[@anthonyayala]

This may have been perfected. Ecoflow in the Europe has released a PowerFlow which they call and Balcony Solar System. Same premise as the grid tie inverter however the battery component can be charged and discharged via a timer to coincide with the grid tie system. And since the baseline can be under 800 watts, between the battery and the panels, you'll experience almost no electric bill whatsoever especially with the Reliant energy program. @@danielking2944

[@lmeseguer001]

In Costa Rica, our power company charges $0,12(USD) per kWh in the lower consumption range 0-200 kWh, for more than 300 kWh the rate increases to $0,2(USD) per kWh. My monthly average consumption is 348 kWh (11,6 kWh daily). I figured the same conclusion as you wisely advised, it is more profitable to reduce the average baseline for a greater ROI, in my case I just need to generate 5 to 7kWh solar per day, probably that means

[@harism5589]

Great finance perspective on solar system. In California, now we are getting more power outages. Electricity company has changed settings to trip off power even small tree branch hits power lines. No power for a day means food in the fridge is going to damage. So backup generator or battery is becoming necessity.

[@wwmilanl]

THis is a honest video so Thanks very much, On internet basically what you find (for solar reviews) are sales speaks very hard to find a user that talk about his real experience from the economics, for me I came to the same conclusion as you, justify SOLAR where eletricity have good prices dont make any economic sense (I live in Texas), that why many goverments are artificially raising price from normal eletricity by heavy TAXES. great video and Thanks.

[@brianstarkey1824]

Great explanation This makes a lot of sense Even if you only save 72 dollars a year that is better then nothing at all.

[@martienstofmeel2192]

Very honest and clear explanation. I live in the Netherlands. Energy is expensive here. Can you give me advice on which inverter I can buy on amazon and connect a maximum of 300 watt panels to it. I want to link it directly to the net. Thank you for your great video. PS we have here 220 volt grid power.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

If I would do it again I would get the grid tie inverter with power limiter ... A bit more expensive but I produce sometimes too much power when I'm not home and I pay for it it's terrible

[@martienstofmeel2192]

@@VegasRoManiacReviews thanks for replay.

[@campingforayearrenoheart5908]

Im in the Reno area power is cheap ! Solar salesman are like wild sagebrush out here , there cost you won’t pay the system off ever maybe 30 years ! I’m getting Tesla solar at 60-70% less still will take 10 years to pay off but long term it’s worth! Great 👍 vid 100% on point

[@nicolashoffman6442]

Great job! You can tell he has struggled with power companies in order to provide us with this valuable information! Thank you for sharing!

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Glad you liked it

[@abdulchehab8805]

Amazing video, Very simple explanation with spot on recommendations on best diy solar system. Well done 👏 ✔️ 👍

[@ww321]

I live in the California Central Valley and my power is $.39 to $.60 per kwh. Thanks for the videos

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Oh wow!

[@DavidRomigJr]

I used to live in the California Bay Area until 2 years ago. Because I got a plugin hybrid vehicle, I was allowed on the EV electric plan. Early on it was some like 11 to 14 cents/kWhr at night and like 40 or more cents/kWhr during the day (plus partial peak time rates). The incentive was to charge your vehicle during the evening. Generating power during the day would have been a potential savings there.

[@TinaICXCNIKA]

So interesting because for one thing, we're practically neighbors (I'm not kidding) and I can see you have that nice North wall for the array...I too, have a nice empty North wall 😁. I've been checking into portable Solar Power kits and trying to justify this and that but this video gives me more to work with. What I'd really love is to have enough to power my Midea mini split window AC, should we have a power outage (usually from the WIND). Thank you so much! 👍🏻

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Glad you find my crazy thinkering useful haha

[@chris_mk5supra]

i wanna have these tie inverter with limiter, but theyre is a "lag" when it detect that you are producing to much and cutting it, do you think that lag is a probleme and will push juice back into the grid enough that they notice it?

[@crpth1]

Curious I stumbled upon this video. That's pretty much what I'm installing! A small grid tie inverter, PV panel and literally that's it! ;-) Nice information package!

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Happy it was useful

[@crpth1]

@@VegasRoManiacReviews - Based on the experience of running the system for awhile. I'll add my 2 cents. Everything adds up just as mentioned on the video. - My system consists of an identical grid tie inverter, but the 350W/240V version. These grid tie inverters are rated for an input of 18V~50V. It was initially coupled with 1x 160W (12V) panel. With open voltage ~18V! - Meaning it's mppt function as barely any space for maneuver, at such low voltage! Result: Very poor general performance! - Adding a second (identical) panel, boost the nominal voltage to 24V. With the accompanying slight improvement of the overall performance. Cream of the crop. comes in the form of a third panel, once more identical. Boosting the nominal voltage to a more interesting 36V... But, there's always a but!! LOL 😂 Open voltage of 18Vx3=54V! Slightly above the acceptable range. Not a real problem since clouds, shade, panel orientation. constant charge, etc. will deflect this detail! ;-) The higher voltage (series connection) will allow the mppt function to have some space for maneuver. With the resulting performance increase! So in conclusion: Forget all the above mess. Get a single panel, more closely rated to the grid tie inverter of your choice. And there you go, best bang for your buck, simplicity, etc. Because with all this said the 3 panels end up costing more. Than a single more powerful panel. But appropriately rated for the application. I hope this will serve others. Cheers

[@KidChaosH2O]

I have a 425 watt grid tie setup on a timer to where if the power goes out it closes a relay to send power to my mppt to charge a battery. To keep the battery topped off that same relay gets it's power off of the same line the grid tie is connected to and that is plugged into a timer switch so at 530 pm each day it turns off and same thing happens as if power goes off it sends all energy at that point to my batteries. It's very simple

[@jo5ephv]

good idea. I have an issue. i live in an area where there is powercut more often. How can I use solar power at least during the day when during outrages? I do not need to back at times when there is no sun. need something to trick the micro tie to trick so that it work when there is an outage

[@wjlambert]

You might consider getting a 1000-2000 watt portable battery, connecting it in-line between the Panel(s) and the Grid Tie Inverter. Once the battery is full, it will pass the power from the Solar through to your home. And you can then use the battery when the Sun goes down

[@vgamesx1]

If you want to expand, what I would do is find ways of increasing your constant load, for example get a window A/C and a timer to have it always run during daylight hours, that will save you from running your main A/C as often.

[@qcore9168]

The best video about GTIs .All the informations you need r in this video.Thank u so much sir.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Glad You like IT Bud

[@asus12351]

Your lucky your power is cheap. Not so for us in Texas so ruining an inverter with limiters was the way to go for me saved a good bit especially in the summer. Great video.

[@rockofalethia9387]

Here is what I understand (this gleaned from another UTVid). Smart meters (and old fashioned meters too) only monitor the two power legs but not the neutral. Also, it seems they only monitor the total power used regardless of which hot leg that power is pulled through. I suspect there is only one current sensor (CT) monitoring both power legs together. This means, as long as the total power you are plumping onto the house side is less than the total power drawn from the external grid, then all is well. This also means that the home owner /producer can utilize the external power pole transformer to move power from one leg to another, or from 240 to 120, or any combination so long as the TOTAL out doesn't exceed the total in. The trick in setting this up is to install two CTs, one on each hot leg and wire them in series (so they add - get the polarity right) and then add a variable resistor in that series' circuit to tune it down. Example: given a Sungold inverter with the output hooked up to the two hot legs (240V) If the supplied CT is put one one leg (In the US it generally won't fit) it will tell the Inverter to put out power assuming the load is a full 240 volt load. If it's a blow dryer (120) the Inverter will over produce (by a factor of 2) and may cause back feed depending on what else is running in the house.). If one were to put a resister in the CT circuit, the "gain" of the system can be cut in half to make the inverter to put out power to match the 120V load. Now, if a second CT is put on the other hot leg and resister added to its circuit, limiting the same amount - and wired so the signals add (series connection - with matching phase/directions). With this set up the inverter should never output more power than is used by the house -i.e. it won't back feed through the meter. In actuality, only one resistor is needed when the two CT are in series. I've bought this equipment and it will be a while before I can get it all set up but I'll try to put up a vid when I get it all working. The SunGold GTI will not be hooked directly the the PV panels but will draw from the batteries. The PV array will be running at 360V as it will be going on a tall barn 250 ft from the MPP controller and batteries - that keeps the wires much smaller and losses much lower. The PV input will go through an All in one ("Hybid") to charge the batts and will run the SunGold during the day and then the batteries will keep the SunGold GTI going into the evening for as long as they last. In this way I only "make" money by reducing the power I have to buy which in time serves to pay off some portion of the cost of my emergency ready solar power system. Hope this is helpful.

[@SarahStuff-p5u]

Spent 5k tossing a 3kw system with 10kwh 48v batteries, I just keep it isolated from the grid and run things off cords for now. It can run my gas furnace/fridge for a few days if grid goes down, but I do get use of the power daily for the most part.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Since then I installed a 3.5 kw gridtie inverter with 10kwh battery ...

[@sorbetingle]

Fantastic ...short and sweet, straight to the point..ty

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Thanks for watching man it wasn't that short but it was definitely to the point

[@brianj9262]

Straight forward video. Here, you'll need an additional meter for net metering plus there's a monthly fee of 60 dollars for that second meter. And yeah the power company only pays you 3/4 of the kw price for the energy you produce. I have 4kw. We make sure we run the dryer, dishwasher stove ac as much as possible during the day for the "free electric". Also the smart meters here do not run backwards, they'll charge you per kw for electric entering AND leaving your home

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Super true .. you are some of the few people that bother to understand how it works

[@brianj9262]

@TheCrazyRomanian it's scary when I see videos of people who pay upwards of $70,000 thinking they'll make money on a few years. The politics make sure you'll get nothing for free and costs you the same each month in addition to the power you produce and give them on top of the equipment costs.

[@ericchang7706]

Great video. You really seem to understand return-on-investment calculations, so I bet you are good investor and a frugal by nature. If someone installs something like this, it makes most sense to run your appliances while the sun is shining. A/C, vacuum, clothes/dishwasher, EV charging, etc so you consume as much of the energy you are producing. That's of course assuming you don't have measured rates. I still have a "dumb" meter that would spin backwards so I could probably size my system up a bit, right? I don't want to draw the attention of the PoCo, of course, by ever having a negative bill or too many months of near zero usage (or have it spinning backwards when they are reading it). So would it be best to pick my lowest usage month and size it around there? I get pretty good sun year-round.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yeah , dumb meter it's amazing ...and yes I am super frugal retired at 37, will never have to work a day in my life if all goes to plan . Btw power bill this month 47 last year same month 57 dollars

[@bobdenver809]

Very good video with practical talk . Micro inverters do not pay for themselves in one year in my location at $.12 per kilowatt hour . Take a 400 W panel and marry with an Entech micro converter and you’re looking realistically five years payback time. If the micro converter was maxed out at 300 W every day 8 hours a day, it would have a 3 -year payback time. At least that’s what my calculations show.

[@paulcalif]

My electricity is .31 a kw. I have a little 100watt panel and a 300w grid tie inverter. Did your power provider provide you with your useage chart, or did you measure your usuage your self and if so, how?

[@larrybell4599]

Great explanation of the different systems.

[@GitlabServer]

Cea mai buna explanation to date !!! thx :)

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Multumesc

[@gereral1_jackofalltrades]

I use 400 watts per hour for my grow lights so a system where lights go on on a timer and off I could use a grid-tie system to grow veggies indoors and will produce 0 exceess as I know the EXACT power of the led grow lights. This is something I would be interested in.

[@SolarLantern424]

This makes total sense. As long as your panels are making power you are always using it. So much better than having an investment sitting doing nothing. I think if you wanted to use more solar than this in an on the grid situation you would be better looking at some kind of cheap solar thermal system to preheat the water or even a very small offgrid setup to run a few devices in an emergency but then you are probably getting into batteries unless the devices have their own batteries. Possibly you could even have some PV heat a tank of water instead of using batteries using an immersion heater or something. What you have done seems like the best on-grid solution and I hope it is still working for you! 😇😉

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yes but regulating the power at the point it's complicated. Water gets hot then you have surplus of electricity , what you do with it ..

[@SolarLantern424]

@@VegasRoManiacReviews Exactly! The way you did things is the best. Just cover that base load of the house! Nothing else is going to touch that, no matter how weird you get trying! ;)

[@chadcarter9581]

been following for years, you always have the best real-life data. Thank you for all you are doing...

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Thanks for watching

[@Sciontc22jj]

Any help with ac cable Brown blue and yellow? Which hot neutral and ground?

[@jl9678]

This is very informative. Thanks.

[@estring69]

Thanks for the video. Houston people looking for a way to add Solar to emergency situations and get some return when not an emergency. Even eat into the cost of a battery backup. Be able to put sensitive electronics on battery and others on generator. And of course removable! Watched to the end of the video :) So yeah. Add some solar and get some return to pay for it.

[@fullyelectric]

@VRR I know this video is like 2 years old however the Growatt XH line of grid-tie inverter was on the market, and they have the Zero export grid tie function similar to limiter setting, for most people like me that pays up to 40cent during super peak and 22cents during peak shaving over 90-100% during that window gives a quicker payback than just shaving off the base load during that same window, point is i have a 4.2kW grid-tie setup with no net metering agreement and I paid off my system within 7 months, saving $228 per month plus got 30% tax credit, so it does not matter if your system is capable of producing more than you need at times, because the cost of electric is so expensive it’s actually better to have a bigger system then needed, in your case i get it your area is crazy cheap seem pointless to even build out a system as you are not saving a few hundred dollars per month, just a few dollars with risky cheap devices, still look like a fun setup.

[@fullyelectric]

Also i do not have any batteries, my Growatt TL-XH grid-tie inverter only supports HV battery setup and i would only need to use it during the night because of the size of my setup and off-peak only cost 8.5cents when i did my setup, now off-peak is up to 10.2cents i am starting to think about it, but the payback time on a 15-20 year battery setup payback is like 10 years for 28.4kWh with 30% tax credit so not worth it just yet.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

I've heard about the growwatt .. good device ...

[@mk061g9]

Is there a power limiter inverter that can adjust the limit if you are using more than your base load?

[@cgtotty]

EXCELLENT presentation ! If your explanations don't make perfect sense to someone then that person should really be hiring someone else to set up their system. There is another scenario you didn't mention - but it probably applies to very few people, and I happen to be one of those few. I live in North Louisiana where it is hot and humid as Hell for more than half the year; but winters do get quite cool somtimes so heating and cooling sucks up the majority of my power usage. A couple of years ago I was working for a solar installation company and my boss gave me a lightly used 4KW off-lease grid tie system in lieu of a pay raise.( Super boss - he even paid the entire crew to spend a day installing it for me ! ) I had got a great deal on a house that I remodeled and presently live in and one of the improvements it needed was an upgraded HVAC system. I ended up buying a solar hybrid AC/DC mini split heat pump that pulls from the grid only when my panels aren't producing enough but it also never exports to the grid. Yes , I was out about $1800 on the heat pump but it only took 16 months to recover that cost. I'm not absolutely certain but I've probably got the most cost efficient air conditioning system in the Southern United States - LOL !!

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Great solution it's amazing how many things are about there , unfortunaly not all are just set and forget they require some interaction with , and most people hate that , they prefer to stay dumb and turn the knob that's it that's as far as they wanna go

[@cenval999]

If I have net metering system for the next 20 years, can I add more power with solar that doesn’t go back to utilities but is 100% self consumption?

[@DirtBikingwithDonnie]

Electricity is about the same price where I live. I learned a lot from this video and your other recent vids about the solar panels. Now I know why the power company installed that fancy meter on my house a year ago.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yeah its really complicated.. Glad you found it useful

[@DrFiero]

Good thing about having say a 2kw grid tie hooked to your (avg) 1kw usage house is that you aren’t stressing the unit that might not be built to the highest quality level. It’s like driving on the highway but your car has a 10hp lawnmower engine. It has to be pinned to the floor all the time.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yes , my next project is maybe a bigger grid tie with power limiter but only once I get more cheap solar panels

[@boughttheticket]

Very informative economic analysis. For a larger than baseline system, it would seem logical to have excess electricity dumped into an existing electric water heater or other electric resistance heat sink. In the 80's I built systems that used hundreds of recycled gallon jugs in a basement closet, heated in the day ( with solar hot air) which cooled at night to heat the house. An electric heater in the closet would do the same, with no solar ductwork costs.

[@occisoft8082]

Very good points made here!

[@Electronzap]

Lots of good points. Definitely not a good idea to borrow a bunch of money to try to eliminate your electric bill. Better to start small and add to it over time if you can use more.

[@gophermuncher]

It seems like all the microinverters I find are 240v. If you are tying it into one leg, you would need a 120v right? Also can you share what micro inverter you’re using please :)?

[@grassabrutta]

If I understand correctly, a micro inverter itself will not function unless 'connected to the grid' (I guess that means it sees the 110/220/230/240 V depending on where you are ?). Is it possible to have a micro inverter run without that connection ? If so, couldn't you then push your power into a power socket (as you described) WHILST you have deliberately disconnected your premises from the grid (to avoid any pushback) ? I guess the question becomes what acts as the sink for the excess electricity ? Please help me out here.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

No, grid tie inverter can't work without the grid, You might be able to trick it with a power inverter that runs on battery to compensate, But it's not worth it If you have a power inverter might as well just use that one

[@hippie-io7225]

Excellent overview. Solar costs are an important factor for all of us to wrap are heads around. A question I've been considering: How much is emergency power worth?

[@hippie-io7225]

@Vegas RoManiac For many of us, having better and cheaper power, I agree with your conclusion. Here might be a different use-case.I ran a few numbers: Recent Texas 2 week winter power blackout. Glad to share the details if you want them. Here is the summary: Cost per Kw hr: Using a new Harbor Freight gasoline generator $720. 7.2Kw/hr $3.50 gal for fuel ($2.15 per hr). Formula: Depreciation + fuel/ Gen O/P = cost per Kw 1 day use: $57.53/7.2 = $7.99/KwHr (8 gal fuel) 14 day use: $6.11/7.2 = $0.85/KwHr (112 gal fuel) Total outlay over $1100 USD. These numbers do not invalidate your point . I think it's useful to look at other scenarios to figure out where an expensive solar system might actually be a viable (even practical) approach for certain regions.

[@crpth1]

@@hippie-io7225 - I honestly get shocked by such reports, regarding blackout lasting days in a row, if not weeks! Not just by the time they last, but also by the frequency and distribution! I'm Portuguese and living in Norway. On both cases I never witnessed a blackout of more than a couple of hours. And usually associated with maintenance/line work! Most of the times happen with a previous warning, via sms! Reports of unexpected blackouts like that. Send me into the memory lane of my expatriate days in Africa... Real third world stuff!! With such a feeble network, I guess privately run solar solutions are an advantage to all! As a form of reinforcing the supply side. Just rumbling. Cheers

[@mltamarlin]

Thank you, very informative. I have two comments: Another possible easy solution would be a solar panel connected to devices that are conditional on power. For example a small heater for the winter. In this case you are not connected to the grid, but you reduce the heating costs if you have another heater on a thermostat. Equivalent to a heater would be a miner. You could mine and heat up the house at the same time. A second comment is that I think that these days price and money return are not the only considerations. You might want to become as carbon neutral as possible, and be willing to invest to get there. But of course the calculations and explanations in the video are still important.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yes , it complicates things a lot ...

[@henrivanbemmel]

Yes, but then you have to run all these extra wires from outside into the home and most heaters to be effective are going to be 500W or better and you will need a significant array to create that.

[@SimonLeBonbonbon]

Woah, over here, atm 1 kWh is about € 0,70 (it was € 0,20 before the War in Ukrain). We have 3 phase + N and ground, 230V each phase, and 3 phase (420V) with a 120 degrees phase shift. The grid is owned and managed by the "netbeheerder" (Network operator, which is regulated by the government) and the electricity is sold by other reseller companies (a ton of them). Over here you're a lot more free to use PV-panels, with (or without) net metering as long as the equipment meets EU-standards. To stimulate solar power, in our country we have the "salderingsregeling" which basically means that every Watt you produce will be subtracted from your yearly use. When you produce more electricity you get a small fee (between 5 ct and 35 ct per kWh, depending on the reseller). So basically, best practice is to install a system that produces your yearly usage. The sun doesn't shine very intense over here, so every Wp installed delivers 85% anually. I.e. a 4800Wp system delivers approx ~ 4100 kWh annually. However, the downside of our system is acting up, there are so many systems installed that during sunny moments the grid voltage rises and the inverters shut down (when 253V is reached regulation). I had to reconnect my system to another phase to prevent my inverter resetting every 5 minutes.

[@josegarcia525]

Hi Can you use a 360w inverter with a 500W solar panel?

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

If the inverter is limited 360 watts and it says it can be used with more power than yes if the inverter does not have a limiter then no

[@alexherrera3918]

great video!!!!

[@acefire4050]

When I first got into a solar panels that's what I thought the electric companies would pay me was 7 cents but my understanding is they might pay a little bit more than that so I was thinking maybe about 9 cents but it might be a little bit more than that I do not know but it doesn't matter I know how much solar panels I need to make as much money as I want if it's only 7 cents how many kilowatts are that you have to make and still have enough kilowatts and solar turn everything in my house.

[@jirist4196]

I absolutely agree with this entire video. This is the way to go! Batteries decrease efficiency of the system and also die after time. Powerful inverters also die because these are worn down by enormous current. And it all prolong your payoff.

[@ghz24]

No enough people doing this will kill the grid every solar power system should have a battery. All this will do is make electricity expensive and the poor will suffer because they can't afford the solar.

[@pedroramirez2215]

Interesting approach

[@DIYwithAsanka]

Nice video well explained.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Happy you liked it

[@damiiano76]

My meter not let the power to go out. If inverter overproduce the meter not count the power

[@henrivanbemmel]

Very interesting. I am in Ontario Canada where we get a much greater shift in the solar insolation. In winter we see only about 25% of the insolation we get in the summer and the day is ~8h instead 15h. We are permitted to net meter, but as you correctly suggest, the cost of all of that makes it hard to justify. The government has some incentive programs, but these are moving this idea from impossible to iffy. I say this because these systems degrade over time and you would have to factor that into your returns. I agree that I am not interested in waiting 10 years for a breakeven and then have to have my roof redone and have the entire system removed and put back on. What I would LIKE to do is use the 800W of solar I have on my RV that most of the time is doing nothing and run that to offset what my home is consuming. However, I really do not want to get charged or fined for back-feeding if something I have fails or the power goes out and I am still live. I do agrees that if you are plugging in a microinverter to the home plugs that it would seem to be the same as if you removed a load. Question. If you have a larger inverter, can you plug one into one phase and the second plug into the other? Do your charges drop based entirely on consumption or are there administrative charges that you have to pay anyway like customer fees and whatever?

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

It's a mess it's like they make it complicated so you can't be green

[@robinthurston3382]

I bought the limiter, it's ten years roi. All in one inverter off grid is next on my purchase for power outages and survival. The limiter is paying my overhead while I accumulate panels. There's nothing free but electric earns more than savings for ten years.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

10 years that a lot ..

[@hellohellohello-b1j]

Can I use better a 700w inverter for a 400wp panel? Less heat for the inverter. The Chinese inverter can overheat.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yes you can

[@acefire4050]

Well I tell you what I did 24 years ago about 28 years ago I bought four small solar panels and for a little bit bigger but still small solar panels my electric bill is $145 a month I started unplugging things when I wasn't using them and I use some things with solar not nearly enough but in return I was only paying 35 bucks a month for electric that that time after I got the solar panels which saved me a lot of money which paid off for the two systems in one year yes those systems were very expensive over the priced I still use them today and had more solar panels since then just not enough I have 2600 Watts electricity my kitchen stove oven uses 3600 Watts electricity I know I need more solar panels to run everything in my house and I have more than 240 volts than just the kitchen stove or 220 volts and I also have a lot of 120 volts How much electricity I need I know how much electricity I go through and I know I want much more solar panels than I ever will need like a hundred times more solar panels than I would actually need to run my house.

[@niceguy1183]

backup battery system will catch extra for use at night. 14 cents Kw in TX and lead acid battery is MUCH more affordable and last just as long. And, when the power goes out....

[@jakeliujakeliu]

Can you show how you hook up the solar panel on the wall?

[@acefire4050]

I am actually hiring someone to put solar panels on my roof to hook it all up with the power system to sell to electric company and to run my house generics I do that for me I just got to wait from the come to my house to do it that's probably more out by your area then yeah by mine because my understanding is they're all out of state right now where I live and they give you one year to pay him back and a guarantee you how much money you could probably make each month it doesn't tell me how much I was going to cost to put it on that I would have to find out when someone actually comes to take a house I could personally put solar panels on my house but I've been putting solar panels on the ground make my own ground mounts and I'm probably going to do that even after they come over and put solar panels on my roof but how they put the solar panels on the roof is they going underneath your roof tile or whatever it is you got on your roof nail something down to your rough the drill a little holes in your roof one to two and bring all the lines in that way and connect to an inverter that they probably bring and put in your house or that you actually put in your house or in your garage or in your back Shadow whatever they also put poles across the little boys the brackets they put in the roof that hangs up a little bit in a month so the parents who that would clamps then they zip tie all the cords from the solar panels so none of them touch the rough and if they don't do that they do not pass the inspection and they have to fix it you can watch other videos to see how that is done and there's some people to put something else on the roof themselves and they show you how they did that.

[@joeyork9891]

Very simple way to avoid grid tie is Use a transfer switch for 6-12 circuits like (generator)(solar PVs )instead. This switch isolates these curcuits from grid power. Battery banks can help store power during the day when usage is low Like refrigerator

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

I'll look in to it but whatever you add increases cost and complexity

[@tanyampilon604]

But transfer switches share the neutral from panel to smart meter and meter will bill for that..Am I correct?

[@joeyork9891]

@@tanyampilon604 So are you saying your getting charged while using a generator?

[@DallasPhool]

For anyone paying a lot for electricity it seems worthwhile to get something like an Ecoflow Delta Max and connect the solar panels and an AC charger to the input (the panels are used first) and wire the output of the inverter to an off-grid ring main (house circuit). This device can supply 2000W AC and stores 1600Wh while allowing 800W solar input. The Pro model can do about twice as much. They are portable although the Pro model weights 45 kilos.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

They are way too expensive to pay themselves off

[@shabadavtar9370]

Great information!!

[@jasonlykens2461]

In the north ny area I’m using average of 1400 kWh per month with a rate of .00756 service and .045 for delivery average utility bill $200 dollars or more I would love your thoughts

[@tylerwatt12]

When you say the power produced by solar needs to be less than the power you consume. Does that need to be per meter read (i.e. in one billing cycle, the total power you make needs to be less or equal to the power you consume) or instantaneously (i.e. the meter is never allowed to spin backwards)? I'm trying to spec a system, and since obviously you can't make solar power at night. I'm wondering if I should double my solar capacity, so during the day, I make 800 watts, and consume 400, and during the night, I make 0 watts, but also consume 400. That way it would zero out over the course of a billing cycle.

[@rf8741]

I would suspect a larger GTIL inverter may pay for itself rather quickly if you compare your savings including your peak usage throughout the solar day to just your baseline using a micro inverter during those same hours. This would also eliminate the possibility of backfeeding when your load does drop below baseline (reboot router, unplug something to relocate it, etc.). Thoughts? Would love to see a video of a GTIL implementation if the numbers work for you (your explanations are easily understood and greatly appreciated).

[@alexmih6641]

The most economical way is a grid tie inverter with power limiter, 24v battery, and a mppt charger with solar panels of course. In day time you produce not only the base of your house power consumption but you can produce all the electricity consumed, the excess you store it in batterys and in the night you draw the power stored in your batterys and feed it to your appliances without injecting into the grid. This way the investment will pay itself very fast because you are using all the energy produced by solar panels. A grid tie inverter with limiter is no more than 400$ but you can supply to your appliances not only the base consumption but almost all the energy used. You keep your grid just for loads bigger than the max power produced by the inverter. If you don't want to buy batterys you can store the surplus energy produced in a water boiler that you use for heating water for shower or you can run it as a preheating for your house heating system.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

That's not more economical, a lot of money will be wasted at the end in batteries and extra energy that is not used, but it's a cool system.to have .. never the less

[@alexmih6641]

@@VegasRoManiacReviews At the price of almost 80 eurocents per kw from grid a sistem like the one I proposed will pay itself verry fast. In Europe its an energy crysis right now and the prices went from 0.14 euro per kw to over 0.81 euro. The price w Is 6 times higher than 1 year ago. Not to mentions the prices of natural gas we use for heating and cooking.

[@brandons9530]

i think your looking at the wrong chart on nv energy i live in norther NV. the one you are looking at is the 15 min chart solar panels are rated in watts they can produce per hour under ideal conditions and down in vagas you get 6 hours of full sun a day so if you only counted 3 hours befor and after 1pm or 2pm because output would trim off i think your lowest base would be closer to 1kw and with loss in efficiency you should be safe but say 750 watts to be on the safe side thats 3 times the size you have now. but you would have to check every day for like a year. if you try please let me know im like 80% sure about this and plan to set mine up this way. but i plan to set it up for summer power and dump the extra power into the ground though diy simple geothermo wells and using the heat like a sand battery in the winter.

[@erichertsens]

I came to the same conclusion, I live on the coast with salty air, Wich kills any inverter in about 2 years.... So a sealed endphaze micro to cover caseload and that's it for me, all the rest is more expensive then just paying for what I consume. How ever, for the AC, since we run it 12 months a year I am collecting the gear panels and micro and a contactor to inject power when the compressor runs

[@CANTON76A]

Any links with Romania?

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

My other channel Vegas RoManiac

[@panospapadimitriou3498]

in my country problem comes when grid is down and its fair for technicians to no findspilled energy to the grid unless MY apliances trip after any shortage! and system stops producing!!! plus if whole neighborhood has many then any electrician out there try to fix problem might be in danger by that production!!!!! europe has 240v so its aa bit spicy situation with micros or grid tie.. it even needs to send papers to company so they know you have it and a special expensive some kind of box and auto switch!!! i guess they might try to communicate with you to drop your production when there s outtage if is in tie mode

[@iami9307]

He didn’t mention that they turn off when the grid goes down

[@Mike-gz4xz]

i live in the Uk got pretty much same set up as you have ,have a 250watt solar panel and a micro grid tie inverter ,been doing this for about 5 years works great , iv just bought another grid tie inverter used cheap on ebay and looking for a used cheap solar panel to go with it , iv refused a smart meter as you can in UK, so im a bit better off than you in some respects ,but i keep it low as i don't want to give them my power back to the grid anyway. Thanks for video was interested .

[@Sciontc22jj]

I need help . I bought this inverter. A/c not sure how add extension cord adapter I'm from US . The ac cable brown blue and yellow Going try find solar panel what watt safe? Can inverter be mounted back solar panel? Thanks

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy V-R-M, Thanks COOP ...

[@DallasPhool]

How much are you paying now for a kilowatt? In the UK it is over 40 cents and that is the government capped rate for private consumers. At higher rates it is worth using that power to heat the hot water tank and heat or cool the house but an off-grid part of your wiring is needed to do that.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Still 11 cents. The desert around Vegas Is full of panels cheap energy

[@heroesandzeros7802]

You may get better results if you faced your panels straight up, rather than at an angle. I found that tying my lighting circuits into my battery /solar system takes them completely off the grid. The utility companies have figured out how to make solar power worthless. The bill for delivery and other things makes up most of the bill and the actual power usage costs very little. Net metering literally steals your electricity... if you do not use it, you lose it. So, without going totally off grid, reducing your bill is the most you can hope for.

[@ItsMe-ic7on]

Doesn't any electric dryer also use a 240?

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

yes most dryers use 240

[@benjones8977]

Seems to me it’s cheaper just to go off grid then to be tied to the utility. Not to mention safer with less legal hassles.

[@newbie101]

I am in Southern California, my electric bill just went triple does this still works here now at year 2022?

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yes

[@Wrenchen-with-Darren]

I agree, but..... bigger is always better. 😁 haha good video 👍

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Glad you liked it

[@WIZ56575]

Let me understand why you just don't pull the main switch on your electrical box and then run your grid-tied inverters. I'm wondering if you don't understand that you would have to have a battery to let your grid-tied inverter see electricity flowing, but this has always been possible. Many people run grid-tied inverters off-grid, so is it illegal to pull your main switch?

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Grid tie inverters sync to power , no power no sync they don't provide any power

[@WIZ56575]

@@VegasRoManiacReviews Answer from media library. Running a small grid-tie inverter without sensing power from the grid requires a specific setup to trick the grid-tie inverter into thinking it is connected to the grid. This involves using a battery and a regular inverter to create a stable AC signal. Here’s a detailed step-by-step explanation: Step-by-Step Process 1. Understanding the Components: • Battery: Stores DC power. • Regular Inverter: Converts DC power from the battery to AC power. • Grid-Tie Inverter: Designed to feed AC power back into the grid but requires an AC signal to synchronize with. • Solar Panels (Optional): Can be used to charge the battery. 2. Initial Setup: • Battery and Regular Inverter Setup: • Connect the battery to the regular inverter. • The regular inverter will convert the DC power from the battery into a stable AC signal. Creating the AC Signal: • Turn on the Regular Inverter: • When you turn on the regular inverter, it generates an AC signal that mimics the grid power. • This signal is crucial for the grid-tie inverter to synchronize and operate correctly. 4. Connecting the Grid-Tie Inverter: • Connect the Grid-Tie Inverter to the Regular Inverter: • Plug the output of the grid-tie inverter into an AC outlet connected to the regular inverter. • The grid-tie inverter will sense the AC signal generated by the regular inverter and synchronize with it. 5. Power Flow and Synchronization: • Power Conversion: • The battery provides DC power to the regular inverter. • The regular inverter converts this DC power into AC power. • The grid-tie inverter senses this AC power and synchronizes with it, allowing it to feed power back into the circuit. 6. Ensuring Stable Operation: • Load Considerations: • Ensure the load connected to the regular inverter is appropriate and within the capacity of the battery and inverter. • Monitor the system to ensure stability and avoid overloading the inverters. Using Solar Panels: • Charging the Battery: • Connect solar panels to a solar charge controller and then to the battery to keep it charged. • Direct Use of Solar Panels: • You can also directly connect solar panels to the grid-tie inverter, but it must still be connected to the AC signal provided by the regular inverter for synchronization. Key Points to Understand: • DC to AC Conversion: The regular inverter converts DC from the battery to AC. • AC Signal for Synchronization: The grid-tie inverter requires a stable AC signal to operate, which is provided by the regular inverter. • Power Requirements: The grid-tie inverter typically requires a stable voltage (e.g., 120V AC or 240V AC) to synchronize. Ensure your regular inverter provides this. Diagram for Clarity: • Battery to Regular Inverter: scss Copy code Battery (DC) → Regular Inverter → AC Output (e.g., 120V AC) • Regular Inverter to Grid-Tie Inverter: scss Copy code Regular Inverter (AC Output) → Grid-Tie Inverter (Input) • Solar Panels to Battery (Optional): Copy code Solar Panels → Charge Controller → Battery Practical Example: • Battery Setup: • 12V or 24V battery connected to a 1000W regular inverter. • The regular inverter converts 12V DC to 120V AC. • Grid-Tie Inverter Connection: • 500W grid-tie inverter connected to the AC output of the regular inverter. • The grid-tie inverter synchronizes with the AC signal and feeds power back into the system. Summary: By using a regular inverter to create a stable AC signal from the battery, you can trick a grid-tie inverter into operating even without an actual grid connection. This setup allows you to convert and utilize DC power from a battery or solar panels to AC power efficiently. See the type inverter needed Link: www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-samsung-nf-rev1&sca_esv=a171c0af4a6cee4c&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIIr2oO1rhD0qQPrQRjl5ImwN7WYtw:1720019014601&q=small+100W+to+200W+inverter&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6PySkouHAxVXEDQIHWLVAjIQBSgAegQIExAB&biw=712&bih=1138&dpr=2.25 Media library has existed since 2000, You can contact the library for more information 3136515349. Or email: [e-mail] If you need more details on this project this is just a brief and a lot more we just want to show you that it wouldn't cost a lot of money to run off grid.

[@jirist4196]

Don't you know whether those chinese micro inverters produce pure sine wave?

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

Yeah as you mentioned it depends where you live. here in California we are paying an average of 40 cents/Kwh - and during peak (4pm-9pm) was paying 58 cents/Kwh. Got sick and tired of $400 a month electric bills. Put in solar two years ago and it covers my annual use (with net metering). With our historical power outages I added a battery. It will take 8 years to pay off but I’d rather put money into my house than pay it to money grubbing utility company

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

In a sick way I want power to be kore expensive here in Vegas too .. they just reduced price per kw. Haha now it's like 10 cents off-peak

[@Delinka3D]

If you have a low wattage phase and a high wattage phase you can install a grid tied inverter with power limiter to the high wattage phase and just save money on that line.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Yeah I already went with the micro grid I inverters but now that I'm starting to think about it I think I should have had a power limiter inverter The problem is that where my solar panels are and when my panel is quite a huge distance and I cannot put the micro inverter or the power limiter inverter in the garage because it's 150° in Vegas it will blow up

[@uwoodc]

I appreciate the honesty of this video and the realistic analysis of other systems and their payback periods. The only issue with the system that I can see is that you could produce dangerous feedback to the grid in a power outage situation which is dangerous for line workers trying to restore power. If there is a way to kill this power during a power outage, then you would have a complete and safe solution; otherwise, I would choose the next system which monitors what is being drawn and never exceeds this. In this scenario, you are safer and don't have feedback to a down grid. You also could get the benefits of offsetting more power consumption during peaks beyond the base. I know it has a slower payback, but overall it is safe and will offset MORE of the power bill once paid off.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

The grid tie stops as soon as the power goes down .. they don't work without power in the network

[@MikePowlas]

No matter where you are battery banks are in no way a scam. I am at 0.119 per KW. You can use batteries at night to kill the 500 watts as well. what makes some people have to buy new batteries so often is that they do not use nor charge them right. So therefore the life span is shortened.

[@MarkSpohr]

Your electric is single phase, not two phases. It is split (split single phase). 120v each leg, 240v for the single phase.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Cool

[@gsp49]

I paid off all i need in 2 months. Its getting better and cheaper by the month.

[@marktan3668]

I guess grid inverter does away battery bank. Just use existing house receptacles. Monitor the current pumping into the ‘grid’ True, electric bills are very very low in some states. Not worth the effort to ‘save’.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

Very true. But it's a great toy.. I'm loving that feeling whan I wake up in the morning and look at the numbers

[@marktan3668]

@@VegasRoManiacReviews I wish I don’t fall into addiction. I check sunrise time at 5.30, check sunlight hours…amps, battery voltage.. Essentially maintaining a battery to fuel the system next morning. Yes, I enjoy the satisfaction telling my wife running energy from the sun..$$ does not matter that much anymore. I do enjoy lighting creativity, being electrically trained in Canada. Keep winter warmer by heater lamps, complimentary air conditioning in summer. No addiction, I hope. But, it should stick around my retirement life for a while since traveling abroad is still in depression.

[@florino.8813]

You always have to use a power limiter when you are on-grid. Because the second you consume less than what the microinverter is pushing in your installation, then the surplus is going to the grid. You cannot guarantee you consume always 200w or 500w. If you reboot your router or it just stops working then 100w or 200w will be pushed to the grid. You are either off grid and then you don't need a power limiter or you are on grid and then you need a power limiter. Even if you are authorised to inject power in the grid, you still need the limiter. And the way you connected that microinverter with a plug in an outlet, that's another safety problem. People in USA use that system to backfeed power from a generator in their house during an outage. And that is how many people die from electrocution. That is why it is called a suicide cord.

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

I don't think you saw a micro inverter, ar at least this model and how it works it syncs to the network , if there is no power or the power goes down it turns off , has a safety system built in even for beyond the meter for the safety of everybody in the network

[@tossancuyota7848]

i would still buy a battery for emergency cases and to also clear anybills with current surges on my system

[@VegasRoManiacReviews]

You should check my last video I've completely changed the system with the 10 kilowatt battery