Most Important Fantasy Novel 2022: MICHAEL MOORCOCK 'THE CITADEL OF FORGOTTEN MYTHS' Elric Redux!

[@salty-walt]

Mike Moorcock reposted your video & said "Liked this! Nice review. "

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Did he? Great. I must get in touch with him, it's been some time since I last interacted with him online, any chance of a link, mate?

[@Revanchist]

Long-time Moorcock editor John Davey had this to say today: “The Citadel Of Forgotten Myths slots -- in terms of the overall saga’s internal narrative chronology -- between two novellas, ‘Kings In Darkness’ and ‘The Flame Bringers’, which fall just before the final volume, Stormbringer. This is despite cover text for Citadel… stating that it is “Taking place between the first and second book in the Elric Saga”.”

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yes, as I said in the video. Davey is usually spot on and a quick look back at those two novellas - which I've read numerous times- seemed to confirm what he said.

[@js90001]

They meant saga books 1 and 2, from the same publisher, which would land this between Weird of the White Wolf and The Vanishing Tower.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@js90001 -Yes, for the US edition, but this is the UK Gollancz edition and the Saga omnibuses are not published and distributed in the UK for copyright and market reasons - Gollancz publish all the Elric material in different, non-Omnibus editions in Britain, so this is just lazy copy editing by Gollancz, cut and pasting the text over from the US edition blurb, where the Saga connection is market-relevant. The Saga editions can only be bought in the UK as online imports and - of Gollancz wanted to be strict about this (they won't bother, as quantities selling in the UK via online sellers will be small) they could theoretically sue UK online sellers for selling the Saga editions in the UK, which is an infringement of Gollancz' UK copyright on the works.

[@waltera13]

Moorcock said that it drops between the first two Omnibuses. The awkwardness of the wording was discussed on a Moorcock page I'm on.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I had a feeling that is what was meant by 'between the first and second books' - of course the Gallery Saga omnibuses are not published in the UK and technically should not be purchasable over here for legal reasons (at least in a shop). Obviously, they're obtainable online. Of course, you could argue that they are different texts to the Gollancz UK editions, which are a multiple volume series, not 3 omnibi. To my eyes and those of the notable experts who study the texts closely, it seems the book falls between "Kings In Darkness" and "The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams" aka "The Flame Bringers" (two of the segments of 'Bane of the Black Sword'. It's very much a work of two parts, the first two 'books' being similar in length to the classic Elric novellas of 15,000 words, while the third part is less in keeping with the early stories and, in my view so far, the weaker part of the book as I feel it's too long- plus for other reasons I don't want to mention here as they'd be spoilers.

[@salty-walt]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I think the statement was definitely in the marketing sense: Can I read this one alone? What comes before it if I want to be prepared? How much do I *have to* read? And in today's market it really only makes sense - if you're in the States the Omni's are the only Elrics you'll find in a new bookstore. Thank you and I'll take my answer off the air. . .

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@salty-walt -yes, it makes sense for the USA, but it's typical of declining copy editing standards in UK publishing over here!

[@salty-walt]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Oh it's not like OUR standards aren't swirling in a narrowing gyre as well.

[@rutgerhauer666]

Awesome review sir! Nice work. You’ve whetted my appetite for this book.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I want to re-read the third part, as I feel I rushed it a tad. But books 1 and 2 really worked for me.

[@salty-walt]

Really great, non-spoilery review. Tells the fans what they need to know. Can't say I blame Mike for spinning things out a bit knowing that the modern reader expects their fiction in gaylords. Glad to hear it is neither pandering , nor disinterested. A return to the flavor of Elric with a more discerning palette, & experience.

[@hyperguyver2]

Seeing as we haven't gotten a new Elric novel since 2005 this is a big release for fans of Sword and Sorcery. Fortunately Moorcock said in a interview he potentially has 8 more stories he's working on in the Elric series.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Wow. If he means 8 novellas in the original style, that means two or two and one third books. I'd like to see him stick to the this, as I felt the longer third section of the new book wasn't as strong as the first two pieces.

[@blakewhitlow7356]

That's amazing news! Where has he said this? Do you have a source?

[@timcoombs2780]

Got my copy today, so will hold off watching the rest of this until I’ve had a chance to read it.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I aimed to avoid spoilers and just give a general theme. Post here when you've read it and we can discuss!

[@timcoombs2780]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I knew there wouldn’t be any story spoilers but I wanted to avoid contextual spoilers as well! I’m thinking that the best reading order for Elric is the original publication order rather than the internal chronological order. Moorcock’s style, and indeed what he is interested in, changes so much between the earlier stuff and even ‘The Fortress of the Pearl’ that it can make reading it in the internal chronology a bit jarring.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@timcoombs2780 -I completely agree. If reading the 'saga' I tend to skip 'Fortress' and 'Rose', as much as I like the latter. It's a Von Bek book to me.

[@salty-walt]

In the US it's published by Saga Press (an imprint of Simon and Schuster) & Tor is involved somehow as well. I'm thankful that the US art design did not go with that nauseous shade of green that has been on most horror and EVERY YA book over here for a decade or more. The foil on the spine is red. There is an "Elric Saga" band at the bottom (important to American readers who don't register any books less than 3 as existing.) There is a Angela Carter quote above the title. I'll send Pics.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thanks Walt, be good to see the variations!

[@andymackie8283]

Got hold of this a few months ago and knew from the start it would be a superb return to the Elric I grew up with.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

So presumably you managed to land a proof copy?

[@andymackie8283]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal yes. Gift from Mike: he's a really nice guy.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@andymackie8283 -I haven't seen him for around 25 years. We did three events together between 87 and 92 and met a couple of times aside from that.

[@andymackie8283]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal yeah he and I played the NASR 2019 festival in Austin TX.

[@captainnolan5062]

Thanks for the great review. I just requested that our library purchase this book. I would love to hear you expand on the comment (at 4:45) "...what we want from fantasy, what we expect, what it gives us is the thrill of the anachronistic through the supernatural..."

[@martinandersson1284]

Magnificent review! One of the best reviews I've heard, in fact. (One small correction of pronunciation, though: It's Dun-SAY-ny, rhyming with "one rainy". I know the family and have visited Dunsany Castle a number of times.)

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Didn't know that, thanks for the detail! Glad you liked the review. I actually felt I didn't do it justice, as I was pretty tired that day.

[@PaulScott-fw1cq]

Hi Steve, found your channel through this review, as I really wanted to see what other people think of the book, and your comments chime a lot with my thoughts on it. I had picked up the three-volume set of Elric, prompted by upcoming release of the Citadel of Forgotten Myths, with a plan to read through all the books in order, catching up on some of the later works I had never read (or can't remember reading!) and if only I'd found your review first, I might have read Citadel in the right place! Finding your channel, also coincides with my renewed passion for SF and Fantasy, which I loved so much in the 80's and 90's and had drifted away from. Love the videos!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Glad you're enjoying the channel, Paul! Welcome aboard the Ship of Dreams!

[@victorrodley9099]

Great review Stephen ,Im Sold.Always Loved the Elric Stories.Its on my wants list,at the top. Agree with you 100% about BJ Bailey a most underrated author IMHO

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Yep, BB had class. Hope you enjoy the new MM, I did!

[@keithreynolds]

But look at that wonderful cover on the 1970s stealer of Souls. I feel that the obviously figurative portrait-type images that are used so often 'these days' are placing the books in the sphere of tv adaptations and popular movies. The 1970s images , for me, capture the feeling of the experience of reading so much better.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Agreed. The Quartet Moorcocks are particularly gorgeous: "See the amazing steel bird fly," as Huw Llloyf-Langton sang in "Moonglum" by Hawkwind, directly referencing this story as you know.

[@keithreynolds]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Patrick Woodroffe artist? Saw a comprehensive exhibition of his work a few years ago in Falmouth. I love the weird photo worked ones like the Stealer one, Panther edition?. 1960s Compact books often have strange things like a paper clip and an abstract shape!

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@keithreynolds Yep, it's Woodroffe. I like the psychedelic/modernist 60s covers too, genuinely strange and jarring.

[@Florfilm]

Great review. Thank you. The first two parts are indeed the ones published before. The first part was published as „Red Perls“ part two as „Black Petals“. They were also reprinted in the Del Ray Elric omnibuses.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Thanks for that - very Howardesque titles, those. I definitely felt the primal S&S influences re-exterting themselves over MM in the first one particularly.

[@afroscifizianzcomix7836]

Good review/overview. 👍 Thanks for giving insight to where this fits in. Where do Moonbeam Roads fit in to the saga? I plan to read the whole Elric saga again this autumn this time including Moonbeam Roads and this new one.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

They don't fit into the chronology of the Elric Saga per se seems to be the consensus, they stand sideways in time as it were to it.

[@afroscifizianzcomix7836]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you.

[@classicsfwithandyjohnson]

An interesting review on your great channel which I'm just getting into. Having read all the Elric books except for the Moonbeam Roads trilogy, I'd have to say that I enjoyed this one the least. I felt the third segment was too drawn out, and I struggled to follow what was actually happening. As you say, though, we're so fortunate to get another Elric book.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think many people felt this and ultimately, I am one of them- I rushed to finish the book to get the video done to beat the competition and I also felt the opening tales were so good I wanted to praise it. But the novella that comprised much of the volume needed serious editing, I feel.

[@dc9277]

So funny thing. I never heard of elric until last year. I got interested, read them and loved them. Maybe my favorite fantasy series...top 2 T least. After i read them i found out this was coming out. Read this and enjoyed this a lot as well.

[@PaulT7046]

I don't think I've read Moorcock since sometime in the '80s! But once read, never forgotten, and the whole vast and interlinked fantasy he created is still vivid in my mind. So this has to go on my ever-expanding TBR list. Thanks for the review, Steve.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

My pleasure as always mate! Let's meet up early next year and go for a swift (or leisurely) afternoon pint!

[@rickkearn7100]

Thanks to you, OB, by way of your suggestion to your viewers that buying new books supports the SF and Sci Fantasy authors in a much more impactful way than buying used, and having been on the fence about where to begin my acquisition of newer SF writers' works with an eye towards expanding my collecting in new directions, I've settled on Moorcock as my starting point. QUESTION: Is it better to buy hardcover, in this regard of supporting the authors, than buying paperback format (PB-only availability aside)? Sometimes Hardcover vs PB is a personal financial decision, if one has the choice. Loved the intro to this post, with the special effects! Godspeed and, cheers.

[@salty-walt]

OB will have More on this, but HC is probably better & SOONEST is best b/c it effects the books figures & standing & often percentages. Buying 5 copies 6 months from now will effect things less. To a publisher a book isn't a thing, it's a concept & only valuable when it's new. In a short time they'll be deciding how much of the run will get marked as a remainder & sold off as old paper. First two weeks is KEY. Soonest is best.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I fundamentally agree with Walt's answer below from the perspective of maintaing the author and quality work in the genres. Personally, of course, money will always be the deciding factor. From a collecting viewpoint, hardcover is ideal, but as a collector you must set your own rules, I think.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Anytime you can work Blue Oyster Cult into your booktube video I'm immediately going to hit the 'Like' Button!

[@captainnolan5062]

Which Barrington J. Bailey would you recommend as a first go?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

My personal faves are 'The Garments of Caean' and 'The Grand Wheel', though I'm a huge fan of 'The Fall of Chronopolis' and 'Collision With Chronos'. Critical opinions tend to focus on 'The Soul of the Robot' (aka 'The Soul of A Robot') which for a Fnatasy reader has an attraction due to its 'Candide'-like structure and quixotic feel, plus his stories 'Knights of the Limits' which are more experimental at times.

[@captainnolan5062]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you for the recommendations. Do you recall where you placed him in the Top 100 Science Fiction book?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@captainnolan5062 -It's not a ranked list - the book is more than just a list, it is an historical and thematic overview of the genre in 100 books, the idea being that you read my book (and then the books detailed in it) for an overview of what SF is. This is why its title does not include 'best' or 'top' anywhere. The most important part of the book is the introductory material, which is historical and contextual, which is more important than the list itself.

[@captainnolan5062]

@@outlawbookselleroriginal That sounds even better. I don't understand how your publishers thought readers could get that kind of information (re: your Fantasy 100 book) by googling it.

[@paullove729]

Hi have you ever read Michael J sullivan

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

No, I gave up reading Genre Fantasy a long time ago, basically- Moorcock is an exception for me. I'm far more interested in Genre Fantasy published before the start of the boom in 1977. Watch my video 'The artifical fantasy trilogy since 1977' to find out why.

[@richardtoogood9817]

Feel free to correct me if I've missed something or got the wrong end of the stick here, but when you say last surviving member of the Society for Creative Anachronism do you actually mean S.A.G.A, the Swordsmen & Sorcerer's Guild of America? Only if memory serves the SCA were a bunch of 70s cosplayers that Poul Anderson was involved with. SAGA, on the other hand, was a sort of literary fellowship of active s&s writers founded by that arch hack Lin Carter. If so then Moorcock isn't the last survivor as John Jakes is still with us. Good to hear your thoughts on this. As I've stated previously, MM and Elric lost me a long while back. But I still hope the book does well. For as the Conan pastiche machine is cranked up to start spewing its bilge again, at least in this instance the creator will garner the just rewards.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

I think that's what I meant, Richard! SAGA is correct. My bad!

[@richardtoogood9817]

@@jerrycornelius2261 By "active" I meant that its roster was comprised of authors then (mid 70s) actively writing s&s fiction. Which not many pros were still doing. Not that it was in any way an active organisation. At most it was a convenience for Carter in facilitating his compilation of the Flashing Swords anthologies. I'm sure the good writers on the roster couldn't give two hoots whether they were in it or not. Particularly MM who once caricatured Carter as Cran Liret, the Thief of Spells.

[@esmailtommy5750]

How do I get that hard cover version of Citadel of Forgotten Myths?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Where do you live? It's published in the UK tomorrow (8th) and I believe it came out on tuesday in the states. Quite a few bookshops will not stock it in the UK- at least initially- as Moorcock's commercial star has faded significantly over the last 30 years due to poor handling of his work by publishers. But any bookshop can order it for you and it's freely available online.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@jerrycornelius2261 Gollancz seem to do very little these days for key authors of quality- similar issues seem to be affecting Chris Priest and even authors a generation or two younger with established followings and critical acclaim like Paul J Mcauley go unregarded too. Everything in SFF is pretty much being ignored in the British book industry these days unless it's written for the young female audience emerging out of YA and into a morass of poorly written cliched fantasy. Many new books are not even getting into the bookshops. Sad to say things are in the worst state I can remember in this way. I've requested a stack of 'Citadel' for my shelves to ensure the faithful are rewarded.

[@aba3647]

I just want to ask where do you buy these

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Where do I buy these what? Please specify what you want to buy- book title/edition, whatever- if you can be clear, I'd be happy to help.

[@aba3647]

Elric of melinbone, Stormbringer and The citadel of forgotten myths. The newest edition.

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

@@aba3647 'The Citadel of Forgotten Myths' is widely available in the USA and UK in all the usual outlets and webstes. The Gallery Saga editions of 'Elric of Melnibone' and 'Stormbringer' are US editions, I would suggest checking the usual websites like amazon-as you don['t speciify where you live (US, UK, elsewhere) I can't be more specific.

[@aba3647]

Thanks

[@joshbobbitt4296]

You mention a British space opera author. Who was that?

[@outlawbookselleroriginal]

Barrington J Bayley.

[@paullove729]

Nice job, well done