Most OFF-GRID Homesteaders Get This Wrong

Someone I live with at Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage calls off-grid homesteading a Ponzi scheme. I've often thought the same thing. Because our crazy consumer society is so destructive both personally and environmentally, because we are made to feel like just numbers working our lives away until we die, a lot of people are understandably attracted to this way of life that we're told involves disconnecting, living off the land, living a peaceful, easier life in the country away from the hustle and bustle of society and the city.
And most of what we see in the advertising and propaganda about off-grid homesteading is praising a life of rugged individualism, making do by yourself, free from grid dependence, producing your own electricity, heat, water, and food.
But is it real? Can it really be done? Or do the majority of people fail at this or live miserable lives because they can't produce all these things for themselves? Do they actually end up disconnecting from the grid, or do they just connect to the grid in a slightly different way? Are they being made to feel like failures if they can't make it alone in the wilderness, or is this an unrealistic expectation set for them by the propaganda that attracts them to the life in the first place?
I think off grid homesteading is very possible, and a lot more of those who take the plunge into this lifestyle would succeed if they just stop listening to this one bit of the propaganda, if they stopped making this same mistake that is based on one major aspect of the romance of off-grid homesteading.
#offgridhomesteading #intentionalcommunity #PonziScheme

[@jeffdroz5294]

Excellent video. As an off gridder for 20 years and infrequent visitor to DR, I agree with everything you’ve said. It’s very expensive to live in the woods and have all the tools you need to have a comfortable life. I started with a small round strawbale house and (4) 110 watt solar panels. It was like camping, every day.. It was fun for me as a young, single guy, but it’s not nearly as practical as the KZbin videos make it seem. You are doing good work.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

Thanks for sharing your experience and your positive feedback.

[@mlindsay527]

We live on a 6 acre permaculture based farm in the fiercely independent “Superburbs”, 7-9 miles outside of a small city. It has become painfully obvious that a reasonable amount of work is only going to provide for a fraction of our already curtailed modern American needs and that we are still VERY dependent on the industrial complex. Further strides towards sustainability will absolutely require community and cooperation. As usual, your observations are spot on, keep up the good work!

[@HardcoreSustainable]

Thanks for the encouragement!

[@mlindsay527]

​@@HardcoreSustainable Occurred to me that long term campgrounds are effectively tiny homes that share a lot of things; community space, laundry facilities, bath facilities, tools (usually informally) and often have their own water and sewage systems. Have you come across any that have upped their sustainability game to include power, gardens, small livestock, etc? Millions of people already live in campgrounds long term and it seems to work pretty well from a social aspect. Perhaps they represent a model for larger scale ecovillages.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

@@mlindsay527 I don't know of any offhand. You mean like where people stay in campers at a state park or KOA? It is true there is some community and sharing there. Not sure that there's any decision making structure. I know of some tiny home trailer parks that probably have more of an interest in sustainability than your typical trailer park. We are actually just now discussing having some option for people to move here in campers so their transition to living here can be relatively easy and cheap. But we would have a small area for this with the understanding that it wouldn't be a permanent home for them, just temporary. Campers are small, but they tend not to be insulated and can be challenging to live in a cold climate without consuming a lot of power or fuel.

[@offgridamy7176]

66 years old 2 acres on a mountain. The struggle is real.

[@rubygray7749]

I thoroughly agree, but alas I'm growing older off grid, with nobody around to share the load, not by intent but unavoidable circumstance. I'm in a rural district where the generous, kind oldtimers have died out, replaced by agribusinessmen managing farm conglomerates sold off to overseas investment companies. I've been powerless for over 3 years due to structural failure of my electric grid system, and lack of like minded neighbours to help replace it. Doing it all alone is beyond hard, depressing, penurious and unadvisable. There are good times, which I focus on when talking to others, who have no concept of how hard my life is. Channels like yours are of inestimable benefit. You give many practical ideas to improve this way of life.

[@bebop54]

exactly the same here ...thanks so much for articulating..🙏🏼🤗

[@HardcoreSustainable]

Thanks for your encouraging feedback. I didn't know that about your situation with the power. We have power co-ops in our rural region to keep people connected on a wider scale. The private companies don't want to invest because they can't make enough money with the long distances, but the co-ops always provide great service and they aren't greedy like the private utilities. I wonder if something like that could be formed in your area. As I remember you are not in the US? I hope you can build a community or attract others to your area.

[@bebop54]

i tried ..but was way ahead of my time i guess ... what ended up happenin' was EXACTLY just as you said .. i made many mistakes in this area & now i'm in a forest mountaintop as an expat (greece) friends / family in the states (florida)thought i was done for during the scam demic...there was a flood / quake sept 4 of biblical proportions that left the road closed of with boulders , rocks & much destruction ...had i been inside the bungalow,tinyhouse i would 've been trapped inside with no way t o get out ...& nobody would even know ..it was big wakeup call .... many years ago considered the expat community but they really were not my people & certainly not interested in self-sufficiency ...anyway , thanks for your wonderful vid' ..this is great advice you give to new preppers ..wish i could've made it to florida ...but i didn't get out in time ...as always my kindest regards to you & big hug 🤗🍆🫒🍅🫑🌶🌿😘 @@HardcoreSustainable

[@rubygray7749]

@@HardcoreSustainable There us plenty of power all round me, but my old cottage's wiring failed with no funds to renovate it. It astonished me his much electricity people waste, and how little is really necessary. I'm working on installing a basic solar system to restore the benefits of a fridge, better lights and computer. Yep, I'm in Tasmania.

[@healthyrootsstrongwings538]

Yoooooooo havent finished the video yet but It´s already awesome :) I do feel like the whole vdo is directed at me though :P

[@jackiegreen3444]

I agree you need to be independently wealthy to make the homesteading off grid comfortable. I hate community. Can't stand noisy, nosey neighbors, so I live a rough life offgrid for the peace and privacy. To each his own.

[@user-dq3nt1wr6o]

I'm from Ukraine. Some 40 years ago, even before "Western values" were imposed on our society, it was a common practice in our villages and small towns to doToloka. When a young family wanted to build a house, neighbors, relatives, and friends gathered and helped the young family. Weddings and funerals were also common events for all members of the entire village. People who have not lost their humanity will return to common management. Because this makes us human, develops society, and evolves the human race! It's great to know that what we strive for is valued at Dancing Rabbit on the other side of Earth.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

That sounds great. You are lucky to have a culture still connected to the land, customs, and community in that way. We had to create it from scratch because it was lost long ago in our country. I'm sorry your country has had to experience invasion and war. Stay safe.

[@nicklebuck]

No thanks, im gonna keep doing what i believe in, on my 10 acres. We live in a society of naysayers

[@jasonbuzzard3127]

The Ponzi scheme comment really made me laugh...

[@mlindsay527]

The “Salatin style” farms that rely on intern labor certainly have a Ponzi element to them as well.

[@tinatrottier4189]

Well said. Thank you for sharing.

[@threemoonscottage1526]

Thank you for saying this! As I kid I had the opportunity to be raised in the suburbs AND a lonely mountain in a tipi with no running water or electricity. I've always been a people person, but living on that mountain was a real eye opener into how scary it is to ACTUALLY be in the lonely wilderness with help an easy hour away if anything bad were to happen to a family member. We are NOT meant to be living alone--or doing everything alone. I'm an artist (surprise, right?) and growing up in the art community a lot of barter and trade and support is a normal, given thing. So I REALLY don't understand why homesteaders want to go out into the wilds to grow everything themselves. It's literally impossible. I tell this to as many people as I can--and I hate the term 'self-sufficient'. It should be "group-sufficient." Lol! Sometimes I think of joining an Ecovillage but I'm never sure I'd be a good fit since I love cooking in my own home (as opposed to a communal kitchen and eating arrangement ) and taking baths in my own home (instead of a shared bathroom). But really, thank you for saying this!

[@acajun.foodforest]

I've been looking at ecovillages for the past 3 years now. I can't really find any in the US that would fit us. We thought Earthaven would work for us, but we have had a dog for 12 years and wouldn't abandon him even for my dreams. Also, I'm pretty sure they quit accepting members soon after I realized the dog thing. I'd love to be at DR, but it's too cold for my wife.. I wish there were more ecovillages in zones 7-9. We also looked into Living Well.. but it's unaffordable for us unfortunately with interest rates. Their situation seems similar to going it alone in that you almost need to be independently wealthy to join. Anyway I love your videos and hope to find an ecovillage to call home someday!

[@mikeycbaby]

Very informative video.

[@pier-annelachance4960]

I agree with you, creating community is key and actually hard to do! It is my goal this year to create community for myself and see how I can work with others locally. I am not the type to live in a community but we can still create community without living in a community.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

It's true. Making more community connections wherever you are is a positive change.

[@iamtmckendry]

I've been trying to create community for a couple years now on the acreage I'm tending. It's been very hard. The ownership piece is a huge issue. Few people have capital that want to join, but they want ownership. Also, in the very first year, no one seems interested as there is little/no infrastructure. After 2 years, with more infrastructure, interest was much higher.. but then the only way to recover the cost of building at it solo is to charge something to recover building costs! All my major expensive tools/machines I asked neighbours about sharing, and ended up having to buy my own machine(s) which mostly sit around. We literally have the same machines sitting around doing nothing 95% of the time. In both major purchase cases the neigbours offered charging me blue book value for work they would do with their machines. Sigh.. It's not what I wanted, and is not going as planned. Attracting community without infrastructure has been very challenging. The other part is that it seems many people rather work a job they dislike for 5years+ so they can be paying a mortgage than join a new community and not have a paper that says they own it.

[@jvin248]

Homesteading requires being clever. Sure tossing bushel baskets of cash at the place can work too. Don't run out and buy a bunch of goats. Sure they are cute at first but they are a really poor choice to start with. Get chickens first. Grow corn, potatoes, beans, and squash first. Then think about getting other setups going. Big animals like cows take much more infrastructure, tractors and so on. They called it Bootstrapping.

[@kevinhilyard9163]

Wonderfully beneficial information nd your enthusiasm is contagious.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

Glad you liked it!

[@aaronschmidt9753]

I can smell that common house. Miss that place. ❤

[@aaronschmidt9753]

Would love to find that happy medium between isolation and community.

[@sharynhughes1061]

👌 Well Said & Interesting. 👌💃🎶

[@darrellbrown8165]

As almost always, there are at least two sides to every story. One example, if you own your own lawn mower or tractor, it is not getting worn out sitting in the shed, as when other people are using it. I agree, there can be advantages to community, but most of what I have seen, the good is overloaded by the bad. I will maintain some connection to community, but a distance. Good luck.

[@bebop54]

i got this wrong too ...been preppin' many years but now all the elders have died off & it's a ghost town ... would have been so much better in a community of like minded people ...

[@zippitydoodah5693]

You were correct. I was wrong. I apologize. Best of luck to you.

[@JayCWhiteCloud]

Over 60 years of living mostly a traditional life, even when "in society," and I can more than contest to the observations of this video being 99.9% spont on!!! Unless you have...MADE SKILL...at traditional living and related indigenous arts...it is not a matter of... "IF"...you will leave your, "self sufficent homestead" if doing it alone, but..."WHEN"...you will leave...

[@luke021380]

This guy sounds like the stuff I say to people and they don't like it. The notion of owning 1 of whatever for each individual or group. That object is a kabota tractor in my area. The yuppies don't even own more than 1 or two acres. They need a huge kaboda with a bucket and excavator though...

[@luke021380]

Keep up the good work! Sorry I've forgotten your name. Want to say matt. People are becoming more aware and will look to folks like u for answers.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

@@luke021380It's Dan. Thanks for the encouragement. It's true, people don't like to hear this stuff sometimes. And a Kubota tractor is probably one of the easiest things to own collectively in a neighborhood. They can be really expensive, but not if 5 people own one together.

[@allouttabubblegum1984]

My biggest concern is like-minded people with good intentions who don't do their share of support their community.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

Yes, that is kind of a reality of all communities and cooperative groups. It's also probably human nature that there are some who do a lot more than others to keep the group maintained, and a few do nothing, and the rest do somewhere in the middle. You just have to get used to this reality of human nature and set up systems for some accountability. But just imagine if you have someone in your small family like this! I've come to realize that we all have our areas of specialty and though someone might not pick up their dishes the way they should all the time, they might bring something else very valuable to the community.

[@jimbtv]

Like most things we look at homesteading in black and white terms. Either we're homesteaders or we're not. In fact homesteading comes in many shades of grey, from the solo off-grid rugged individualist all the way back to full dependence on a global economy and social services. My thumbnail assessment of your living style is communal - gathering a group of like-minded people to share communal tasks and possessions. You will accept someone else's sloppy lifestyle for the use of a communal car or tractor. Been there - done that. I don't have the tolerance for living according to the lowest common denominator. In fact you are on that sliding scale of homesteading; not the rugged individualist while remaining dependent on others for your survival and social interactions. Personally I am 71 years old and over many decades have continued to tick my way along that homesteading pathway to a more individualistic lifestyle, being less dependent on society to fulfill my needs. I too share your concern for the influencers who paint a rosy picture of off-grid life. Living off-grid can be very difficult and in fact, we all still remain connected to society for one thing or another.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

The great thing about where I live is that mostly you can decide how much or how little you want to participate in the communal aspects. If you want to be a hermit, you can do that, but you might still share some things with others. Sharing some things, there might be some sloppiness you have to deal with. You also might get the benefit of people that are better at things than you are. You get the benefit of other people maintaining things so that you don't have to. This is great for those people that don't know how to fix things or figure everything out for themselves, which is what you have to do alone on a homestead. I have griped when I've gone to use the tractor and it isn't working because the person that used it before me didn't take care of it or notify the maintenance person to get it fixed. But overall I come out ahead, and I don't have to work my ass off to make more money to buy one or have to fix it myself when it breaks. I don't eat in an eating co-op because I don't want to eat someone else's diet. These eating co-ops tend to cater to the lowest common denominator diet...the most restrictive diet. For that reason, I put a kitchen in my house and eat my own diet. But I have to say I miss the social aspects of eating in a co-op, and it certainly frees up your time when other people are cooking most of your meals during the week. We still have a weekly potluck in the community and that allows for social time. But I really miss out on a lot of the social life in the community by eating alone. Because of the prevailing concepts about homesteading, and the fact that only couples or families are shown doing it alone in the wilderness with all their gadgets and tools, this is what people think it is. Then they go out to try it and realize how hard and expensive it is. They don't know that people never lived this way in the past. Homesteading wasn't anything like this 100 years ago. Living the way modern homesteaders do today couldn't happen without a lot of money and gadgets from the mainstream economy. People going into don't always know that you need a lot more money to make it happen. In the absence of money, you need to work very very hard to survive, because people never lived this way without community in the past. This is why so many try it and think there's something wrong with them because they fail. It's only possible for some to live this way because they have the miracles of our modern economy and technology to fall back on. They can always say, "well I can't handle other people, so I'm gonna go it alone". People in the past never had that luxury. They had to rely on community. My goal in posting this is to let people know that there is another way to live self sufficiently, and that for everyone from preppers, to off gridders, to eco lifestyle activists you will be much more resilient with a good community.

[@jimbtv]

@@HardcoreSustainable Sounds like a pretty fair arrangement. Since I'm a major control freak I tend to defer to my own best judgment which makes me a team of one.😉 I have learned to live with both my successes and failures. Being a hands-on person all my life I can make and/or fix most anything I need. This too is part of the cost/benefit arrangement. I think we all need to respect the difference between people who strive for sustainability and those who truly homestead. I come down in the sustainability camp and have never fooled myself into thinking I could last all that long without the support of the local economy. I do fully understand the social benefits of your arrangement but I can only take society in small doses. Best of luck to you.

[@allouttabubblegum1984]

In russia, they're starting a revolution of Community is a pretty much off-grid living, as described in the ringing Cedars of Russia book series.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

I'll have to look into that.

[@schnauzpig]

A young community of like-minded people is truly a beautiful thing, but I think it is understandable that people are weary of signing up for such interdependent lifestyle, especially when moving from such low-trust societies as our cities have become. What will happen as Dancing Rabbit ages, will the next generation stay on, even though they haven't necessarily signed up to the ethos, or will they move out to big cities and which will be worse? What happens if it is decided that it shouldn't be up to individuals how much they share? Or that Dancing Rabbit should be a scantuary village and supply free tents and needles to anyone who turns up? Unlikely scenarios, maybe, but these are the very real issues causing people to turn away from social living and towards an off grid lifestyle.

[@Mark-xt8jp]

As far as "what will happen down the road" with DR, they are already past that point if you consider they have been there for almost 30 years now. From what I've seen, that community isn't relying on one or two key people, where if one left the group would fall apart. It appears they have a good system in place to accommodate new people joining and old people leaving.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

People come and go from our village as they do in any other community. Some stick around, some move on. I think as the village grows there will be more reason to stay longer and stay intergenerationally. We are still isolated in rural Missouri and that can be difficult for children who've grown up in the village to want to stick with. Just as in any rural area, the children have been moving away. We don't have a robust economy either. Still, some of the kids who've grown up at DR have come back for periods of time because they like the culture and community, and they bring that with them in their lives. As far as things changing dramatically. It seems unlikely things would change that dramatically without our input since we make all the decisions for our village. No one could come in and impose something on us. But I'm at a loss as to your fears. They sound like Fox News fear mongering. I don't buy into any of that. Maybe I'm not connected with the same community, but I don't know anyone getting into off-grid homesteading for the reasons you're talking about. I guess most preppers live pretty fear based lives. I'm not prepping for anything. I think we're pretty screwed unless we do something about climate change, and stowing away food and guns ain't gonna stop that problem.

[@schnauzpig]

@@HardcoreSustainable I was not attacking DR, I was defending people who decide to go it alone and trying to give prespective as to why our modern society drives many people towards individualism and not towards further intergration. You make the connection between DR's microgrid and the wider grid but do not spot the connections I was making between DR and wider society, dying communities are a massive problem in the US not just a random fear. Although I agree it is mostly irrelevant here, I sped the clock foreward in my hypothetical to make it easier to envision. The example I gave was also not random; this is how the real life community of San Francisco is dying. People there, just 20 years ago, also wouldn't have been able to envision how their community could fall apart, they also part-own many public buildings and "decide on everything" apparently at the ballot box. This is not my prediction for DR it is a window to what many people who choose to go off grid are turning their backs to.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

@@schnauzpig I have heard about what has been happening in San Francisco to some extent, but I don't know enough about it to speak with any authority. Someone from there would probably know better. I do know that housing costs got so high that only the ultra rich could afford to live there (which leads to homelessness because it's warm there), then the pandemic happened and some people left because of the restrictions. And crime has increased since then. But I don't know about how being a sanctuary city would be a problem. I don't know how much this would impact a place. And I don't know about the handing out of needles, if that happened, and the extent to which it contributed to the problems. I think a lot of people pick and choose what to blame for problems based on what they want to be true, not necessarily what is true. I would like to know what the real truth is. I think housing costs around the country are leading to all kinds of problems, but this is the result of capitalism and population growth. The vast majority are being squeezed out and those with money are profiting more than ever. At DR we are somewhat insulated from these larger issues. Houses at DR don't immediately get scooped up by rich investors. This can't happen at DR because you have to be a member to own a house. This actually means that it can be pretty hard to sell a house at DR. But we are a small group of people, not a massive city, and I think small scale is the key to any kind of social system working. The larger the scale of humanity, the harder it is to organize people in a way that is predictable, safe and resilient. At DR, we are at a community scale and people have more control. But during covid we still had a number of people leave because of disagreements about how to deal with the pandemic and keep people safe. So I can see how that might also affect a larger city like San Franscisco. Our larger society in the US only thrives by stealing resources from the rest of the world. As 5% of the world's people we consume over 25% of the world's resources. It's not surprising people from the countries we steal from want to get into our country. We pump fossil fuel into our society and economy to keep people happy. Without this abundance of resources, the stability can't be maintained.

[@bebop54]

i think it's very difficult to establish a community with unknown .. many who go off grid are hermit types to begin with or have other reasons to go it alone ... a big family & friends might be the best way to go for this type of individual ... it's really tough ...@@HardcoreSustainable

[@aliciablackledge5388]

sharing appliances, vehicles etc. sounds like you follow the wef. no thank you.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

What's the wef? Is that the Amish? You seem to know what it is a lot more than I do.

[@ridingvenus]

So homesteaders get it wrong according to this guy because he is the only authentic person who knows what it is..everyone else’s view/opinion doesn’t matter?

[@ridingvenus]

I think like almost any person’s perspective/reality its all depends on one’s self…otherwise it’s about believing why is told always. Which is the opposite of how I see homesteading…to me.

[@ridingvenus]

I wonder if there’s someone who builts everything themself ..axes..etc..everything..including mining to make the axe. I bet if that person exists this person would definitely not consider this guys views as fact for homesteading.

[@HardcoreSustainable]

@@ridingvenusI'm not sure what your point is about someone building axes. In the past people didn't smelt iron themselves and make all their tools themselves. And why would you want to? Maybe as a hobby, but it's not practical for everyone to know how to build everything they use from scratch, unless they are hunter gatherers. But even hunter gatherers lived in intentional communities and cooperated in everything they did. Every heard of a blacksmith? In the past, these were the people that made metal tools for the community. Even early metalworking cultures had specialists who made metal for tools or decoration. You are welcome to have an opinion about homesteading and live the way you want. I think it's a lot harder to homestead alone and try to do everything for yourself. And you need machines and tools you can't make to do it, and those cost a lot of money sometimes. That's means you're going to have to make that money. A lot of people get into homesteading thinking it's possible to do everything for yourself in the middle of nowhere. I'm letting them know they are far more likely to fail that way. But anyone is free to knowingly make things harder for themselves.