Most Unpopular And Honest Opinions On Kpop Vocals!

[@jerc6777]

taemin and ten from nct/wayv def have the most dramatic improvements in terms of vocal. both started as main dancers, now they can pass as main vocalists.

[@soona22573]

It just shocks me that in old Shinee concerts, Taemin was the one who lip synced the most or barely singed, and then he proved himself with more than 100 recorded solo songs! just wow! the dedication!

[@soona22573]

And you know what, if he continued his career as underaverage vocalist, he'd still have fans who defend him with the most famous kpop argument: "he is an incredible dancer, not a vocalist", yet he chose to work hard to be able to perform the best songs.

[@Nini_K2]

Ten's technique hasn't rlly developed much tho, he still lacks A LOT, however, he indeed improved his pitch

[@TityOnWish]

​@@Nini_K2lack a lot? he out sing most main vocalist bfr

[@アウエン]

Taemin is the definition of hardwork, this guy truly takes his job seriously, and I think that's why he became what he is now to so many idols. And it's for the best he learnt to sing, because SHINee is a vocal group, and I think Taemin did want to exist as a member who is truly a pillar of his own group. I'll always admire Taemin for what he did... From not being able to sing, to going ALONE on Immortal Songs (K-Pop stars go there in group almost all of the time) and winning multiple round, to being able to cover song parts when the main vocalists aren't there, to being actually a very central part of SHINee's vocal line with Onew in later years... He's something else. Like okay, he's a legendary dancer, he's crazy, he revolutionnized the way K-Pop boys danced... But as a vocalist, he also deserves his flowers.

[@faithaea9329]

yes 100% on the yunjin one. she has a great voice, no doubt, but because she's classically trained fans treat her like this pop vocal goddess. it's similar to how fans insist that kazuha is the best/main dancer in le sserafim just because she did ballet. classical music is a completely different style, and i say that as a classical vocalist. yes, a lot of the basic technique for pop is borrowed from classical but there's also a lot of aspects to the pop style of singing that "breaks the rules" of classical singing (examples include: vibrato usage, tone, belting, riffs and runs, etc.). yunjin's got a great starting point and she is a good singer. to really reach heer full potential though, she has to deconstruct her classical voice (not completely abandon it!) and learn what makes pop singin, well, pop singing!!

[@soona22573]

Today I learnt that being good with classic doesn't imply that you're good with pop..

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

I don't think it's classical vs pop, she just doesn't have a very weighty voice. She has a nice, light, lyric soprano that sounds pretty in the classical/broadway stuff chosen here, but it would also sound pretty with lighter pop, for example AKMU type songs and kpop OST's. No one would hire her to sing a Wagner opera either, she would be immediately drowned out by the 90 piece orchestra. It was just a bad choice for her to try and cover Kelly Clarkson's "Stronger", almost anyone is gonna sound weak by comparison there.

[@afeliz2642]

agree but with the kahuza point there are 2 parts, kazuha is the best dancer in lsf even if y'all don't consider main cuz kazuha has developed all areas in dance(talking about kpop), she has such a good musicalitty, sense of shape(the best in lsf for me), her stability, good dynamics, etc im agree that people use the "ballet" as an argument bc they dont know anything about dance so thats the only argument they can use to say shes better than the others

[@brendan6555]

Classical doesn't use vibrato?

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

@@brendan6555 I think they mean the opposite, that some pop singers choose to not use vibrato to achieve a particular style.

[@Sgmy-zs8cc]

For SM, I think the company culture here plays an important role, even you think the company doesn't do much for their singers' vocal improvement, but when you enter a company which values the vocalists, and you are surrounded by good vocalists who practice everyday with high standard on vocals, you yourself will be motivated and impacted. One of the reasons why Taemin worked himself hard on his vocals back in the old days is because he spent so much time with his bandmates and hear them singing everyday and he knew how much he was lacking comparing to them, he mentioned many times that he would go practicing with Jinki on the rooftop every morning for a long time, also got singing advices/instructions from Jonghyun. And in SHINee's first mini album, there is a song sung only by Jinki, Jonghyun and Key; in their first full album, Jonghyun had his first solo song; and in their second mini album, there is a duet between Jinki and Jonghyun. When a company does this, you immediately understand how much the company values the good vocalists. So I do think labels have a lot impact on artists improvement.

[@Sgmy-zs8cc]

Also in the new NCT member selection program, EXO Xiumin said to the rookies that "To be honest, dancing isn’t that important. Singing is the most important. If you can’t sing well, no matter how good you are at dancing, you won’t look talented." So I do think vocal is much valued in SM's company culture and their artists are influenced by it.

[@elinama7061]

@@Sgmy-zs8cc If you are a bad singer in SM, they go about it differently than other companies. You wont be given lines much at all, but they will try to compensate it with other things you might be good at like rap, dance or visuals. I feel like if you are motivated to improve, SM is more than willing to help. However, if you're not, you're always gunna be pushed to the background unless you got something else that draws in fans. But I think the key is that you have to really want to improve, you yourself have to put in the effort. They can't force all their idols to like singing, they want them to want to. And it shows, because alot of the vocalists who end up improving are the one's who have the drive and the passion to keep bettering themself, like Baek Taemin and Kai. But for idols like Winwin for example, I genuinely think he doesn't like singing he's just happy just being in the group and that's fine if that's what he wants to do.

[@ohandthefracking]

@@elinama7061 tbf SM always had a member in their group who initially was a really weak singer but after improving they got more and more lines and overally you could have seen the growth and progress

[@jcoxo]

I agree. Company culture and their seniors... For example, I think NCT are inspired by EXO a lot. Many times I have seen the members listening to EXO's old b-side songs or Dreamies practicing their harmonies. Like, I don't think it's possible to grow up with their songs (valid for any SM senior), listen to them, and not strive to be as good as them and reach their standards. It also takes personal passion. Even SKZ Seungmin and Minhyun from other companies have said many times that Baekhyun is their role model. They recommended his songs many times and sang along with him in their lives. And we later found out that they're also students of Baekhyun's vocal coach. (I don't know about Seungmin, but Minhyun said that he specifically searched and found Baekhyun's vocal coach.) This dedication doesn't come only from the company's efforts.

[@triplej8666]

@@jcoxo Baekhyuns vocal coach said his 3favorite students were Baekhyun, ATEEZ Jongho, NCT Haechan

[@soona22573]

Karina is that hot girl who people underestimate assuming she got it all easy because of her beauty yet she's really a hard worker.

[@eem8736]

And it sucks people think she's only a pretty face when girlie is actually talented!

[@pixcaine]

karina and sullyoon are visuals that are always underestimated vocally 🥲

[@soona22573]

@@pixcaineyes! I'm not a fan of Nmixx music but sullyoon captured my attention, she seems one of those dedicating hard workers who wanna be the best no matter what it takes, you can see that in her eyes.

[@shinigagamimi]

@@pixcainepeople praise sullyoon all the time for her vocals. her appearing to be underrated (or not talked ab as much as other visuals) is because nmixx is far less popular than most of the other currently popular 4th gen girl groups

[@pixcaine]

@@shinigagamimi very true, i just meant that even within nmixx since they have such a strong vocal line, sullyoon is often not talked about much and is praised for her visual way more than her vocal when i think both are so strong

[@XJYNCT]

Whilst, SM vocalists being skilled prior to debut is something I agree with, you can't deny artists who weren't before have improved significantly, like Taemin, Renjun, Changmin, Daeyoung from NCT New Team is a testament to their training and even vocalists who were skilled before have improved since debut.

[@BlueloveParrot]

But they don’t make 'only' good and best vocalists,, there are weaklings too, many of whom get skilled over time that's true

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

@@BlueloveParrot True, but the singers who are the weakest in SM can still sing with vibrato and get through a simple solo song or OST (think Yoona, Minho, Irene, Yeri, etc), which I think speaks to their basic vocal training. They may not have the most power, biggest range, or prettiest tone like the main vocals in their groups, but the lowest level basics are there. The idols who are the absolute weakest singers in other companies often can't manage even an easy song like that alone. I'm not gonna name names because that's mean.

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

Even SM's strongest singers tend to improve. I've always loved Chen, but he's a lot more versatile and better at ballads than he was at debut. I felt that he had too much tension originally when trying to sing softly. The stuff he's put on his solo youtube channel in the past few years is truly incredible. At that point it may be down to their own personal desire to improve rather than the company though, they can hire whoever they want as coaches once they're rich. Idk why more singers don't seem to share that desire to get better. Like sure, it may be on the company when they choose to debut 17 year old without basic skills, but once you've been in the industry for 5-10 years it's kind of your own choice to remain struggling.

[@BlueloveParrot]

@@rachelmaddowswife8713 that's a great thing that sm prioritizes vocal training that's why their 'weakest' vocalist are not actually 'weak',, but sm stans often claim by default a random idol under sm is better than anyone in the industry, which is not true.

[@Everythingz127]

Definitely

[@nap163020]

You can't keep using Wendy to say that SM only recruits talented vocalists to begin with. I would use Taemin, Renjun, Seulgi, Heechul, etc. as examples of SM actually training their idols. Sure, they do focus on hiring talented vocalists, but they also focus on vocal training for their recruits.

[@stress7561]

Yes, we also have Kai, Sehun, Joy who have improved a lot since their debut. The SM formula is great, it transforms people who were already good into excellent and transforms people who were average/below average to good. The highlight of SM is the ability to improve someone's vocals without making them lose their identity along the way. Many current companies, in addition to not caring about the quality of their idols' vocals, make what was once decent became worse.

[@anibalclericot1173]

Also, SHINee's Jonghyun, f(x)'s Luna, and Jessica didn't have previous singing experience and were scouted for their stage presence, dancing, or looks. All of them became main singers in their groups. Jonghyun was below Chen and above DO and Baekhyun, Luna was below Lina (the Grace) and above Taeyeon and Wendy, and while Jessica was always inconsistent, you could place her below Dana (the Grace) and above Ningning at her peak before leaving SM. So, at least till the end of 2nd gen, SM had some good in-house training. But with the shifts in the industry, it's clear they opted to scout for singing talent instead to reduce overall training time.

[@jcoxo]

We know of that they were in music clubs, music academies, and high school bands even before they were trainees. But there is almost no visual material out there other than a couple 144p videos filmed with a toaster. Since Wendy studied in America, and there are different events held there than in Korea, he may be using Wendy's videos, which are clearly of higher quality.

[@uc6758]

@@jcoxojessica joined sm at a very youungg age. Luna was auditioned as a dancer. Taemins is obvious. Seulgi joined SM as a young girl too.

[@jcoxo]

​@@uc6758 The title of the video is literally "...opinions on kpop VOCALS". And he was talking about the main vocals. That the main vocalists they recruited were happened to be already vocally trained and didn't need any training from the company.

[@Ana-zm7ox]

Karina is a pretty girl and being pretty is a two edged sword. People are either going to say you got in because of that or get too caught up in your appearance and forget that you have a whole pack of skills. I've seen that with Jaehyun too, but in Karina's case, it's even sadder because I feel like she gets far more to showcase vocally and yet people just don't see it.

[@undefined601]

We see it. Which other sub-vocalist has their own solo OST - Sad Waltz.

[@patusa45]

i think Karinas case is the same as Madison Beer or Sabrina Carpenter, people love them and think they are pretty but cant apreciate the vocal talent

[@rwyou]

Ikr . I'm not a aespa stan but people always talk about their beauty specially Karina's so I thought they're mostly famous for their visual but when I listened to them I realise that they're super talented and karina has a beautiful voice and I actually feel bad how people always appreciate her beauty before her talent.

[@lulashepard3253]

Let’s face it, her beauty is the first thing you see. I totally agree though, she’s a much better vocalist than she’s given credit. Then again, she’s standing next to Ningning and Winter, two very strong singers.

[@s.lotus74]

​@@lulashepard3253yh, I think ppl forget that two things can be true at the same time, she was social media scouted on Instagram so yh she was picked for her looks but that doesn't mean she's talentless, same case with wonbin from RIIZE but ppl aren't as nittpicky since he's aale idol

[@mellisalake7490]

NCT vocalists like Doyoung really never fail to impress me. Not only are they really talented at singing but also seem to be the most stable in live performance with dancing. They'll go from dancing to singing high notes and straight back to dancing like it's nothing. But really props to Doyoung, even in concerts he will make sure he is heard over the backtrack.

[@lisac3043]

His live vocal in Baggy Jeans and Fact Check is crazy good.

[@ghizlank]

Him and haechan

[@ksw961]

not every SM idol is a top-tier vocalist but the good majority can sing their range during encores, which many idols these days can't even do. they're good, they're stable and most can do solo projects just fine

[@Saladfork1929]

4:25 on the note of Bae, she is like… the IDEAL subvocal. Good enough technique that she can carry her lines, but also a gorgeous tone that makes her stand out. She’s got this smoky, dark sound to her voice and it makes her sound amazing on… quite literally every line I’ve heard her sing. I hope companies take note of this, because having a pretty tone is SUCH a good thing, but even more importantly making sure they CAN sing from a technical standpoint is also so important. It really does feel like JYPe/Squ4d got this right with Bae, and I wish we could’ve seen it with others in kpop. Sana from Twice has a beautiful voice but god forbid they give her a little vocal training so she’s ready for those E5’s in Brave. Kazuha from Le Sserafim has a unique tone for kpop, but why would we EVER try to improve on that, let’s just give her that unecessary note in Unforgiven’s prechorus that she clearly wasn’t trained to sing, nor was she ready to. The list of these idols goes on and on and so it’d be seriously amazing if people like Bae became an aspiration for sub-vocalists 😭 because carrying a note live is just as important as having a pretty voice to help mask your flaws and make you stand out.

[@remrunner101]

I'd really recommend checking out fromis_9s Seoyeon if you're interested in more idols with unique vocal tones and good technique. She is one of the lead vocalists of the group but the tone of her voice really just makes her stand out. She improved a lot over the course of her career which is really nice to see. Right now, her cover of Zicos I Am You, You Are Me is actually trending in Korea so I would recommend that if youre interested. She also has Lee Mujin service.

[@Robalexe]

Bae would be a very good lead vocalist at the very least, she's not just an ideal sub vocalist

[@martacastillo6272]

YES for the Bae appreciation, she does a great job in every category. And I always loved how she does have an intention on how she wants to sound while singing. People like to pick on her stage presence, but Bae brings a subtle and sultry aura that balances out the more intense performers in the group.

[@crishanawoo8515]

Yess

[@billliealim]

I don’t even think she’s the weakest at all. Maybe the only reason why they sound weak is because the songs don’t really utilize her vocal style

[@Xaixiu]

IMO, Bae is just the weakest dancer from what I’ve seen. But she makes up for it

[@martacastillo6272]

@@Xaixiu I wouldn't say so, when you look at Lily and Sullyoon, Bae has the best extensions and alignments while dancing. Lily has great lower body control but her arms sometimes don't create the appropriate shapes, while Sullyoon captures arm details very well, but can lose control of her lower body (she just needs to improve flexibility and strength imo, because she has had her footwork moments). Bae tends to maintain her lines in check all throughout, her weakness is that this tendency to keep things clean makes her moves less _impactful_ , but I really like how swift she is.

[@martacastillo6272]

@@billliealim the weakest of a group isn't necessarily instantly considered weak. Her and Jiwoo are pretty close in skills, it's just that Jiwoo tends to be more consistent with diaphragm engagement everytime she sings. Although Bae usually dares to go higher, while Jiwoo stays in her comfort zone (you can notice this during karaoke moments)

[@sweetmisery24]

I think, Taemin's vocals are some of the most improved in the industry. Other idols that could be in the list: Taeyeon (SNSD), Moonbyul (Mamamoo).

[@soona22573]

Taeyeon got lessons from one of the best singers in Korea during her trainee era, while Taemin only improved in the last couple of years I guess without a serious push from the company, he was already the king of dancing and I don't think sm minded him being underaverage vocalist, but he wanted to debut as a solo artist so he needed to improve, he mentioned that he slept too little training with EXO Kai in the studio until the company approved him.

[@DREAM-re2up]

@@soona22573 It is true Taeyeon was trained by the best but she said at some point in her career her vocals changed and she wanted to be more stable and relaxed with higher notes so she underwent more vocal training. I think people pointed out how during TTS she was straining her vocals a lot but fans knew how tired and sick she was during that period, but that could've been the push she was looking for to improve her vocals. Since her solo debut, you can tell how she is so much more relaxed with long, high notes.

[@afeliz2642]

taeyeon was already amazing even before debut so i dont think she enter in that category, and moon has improve but i dont think its enough

[@leti9130]

Ten too

[@γινομαιενα]

​@@soona22573 I disagree, Taemin has been improving his vocal since 2013, not just only on recent years. Ever since Dream Girl era to be exact, he has been pushed more as main vocalist and center especially after Jonghyun's absence in 2014 (during Why So Serious era)

[@finnlinnsone]

it's worth mentioning that SM collaborates with various vocal academies and seem to put emphasis on assigning highly qualified vocal coaches to their trainees. sure they have in-house coaches as well, but trainees with talent and potential (such as Taeyeon, Wendy, Jessica etc) receive special tutoring by professionals who are often sourced outside of SM

[@happy_ryujin]

Finally, someone who's honest but still polite.

[@bella11110]

The fact that Bae is an Exo fan and she named her cat D.O. 😂

[@eliana3638]

Im going Stan than lol 😂

[@btsismyoxyjin2013]

Omg🤣

[@haneulnophi]

I think Kai had a great vocal improvement throughout the years. by all means, he's not the caliber of a main vocal (especially when you are in the same group with THE baekhyun, chen, and kyungsoo), but he has developed his own style and tone that's very unique and his vocal is definitely way more stable and stronger now.

[@jeelee3096]

Kai rarely ever sings live tho but you can still hear his improvement in their recorded songs over the years

[@laukdaun114]

He mostly sang live in exo's concerts, esp the last one where he has to cover some of do's and xiumin's lines. On his solo stages he sings some parts and just let the backtrack takes over when he wants to focus on the choreo heavy parts

[@jeelee3096]

@@laukdaun114 his improvement is still not great as fans claim. Chanyeol is much better singer than Kai

[@a.t.l400]

​@@laukdaun114There is no video where he just focuses on singing and really shows that he can carry a full song by himself

[@a.t.l400]

He sings in EXO for less than 10 sec 💀 and as a soloist he never sings live, all his performances are lipsync, you can't find any video of him where he only focuses on singing and doesn't dance

[@cutebunnyhops]

Doyoung has been scouted by sm for his singing, he has won many vocal competitions. He's main vocalist and aways puts time and energy into improving his vocals and still receive vocal lessons. It's fascinating how he improves vocally every comeback. He has trained a lot for musical and it his live performances have been top tier since debut

[@nick3805]

Bae really is underrated as a whole: Yes, she isn't the best Vocalist in NMIXX, nor the best Performer or Dancer, but People keep forgetting that compared to other Groups NMIXX' Standard is incredibly high. I can think of a fair Number of successful Groups in which she'd easily be the best Vocalist. Otherwise, about Idols improving, there are indeed very few, but I think that Wonho, formerly of Monsta X, and Hyuk of VIXX might be good Starting Points.

[@lavienrosewon8811]

The fearnots and kpop stans need know yunjin isn't opera singer but classical singer this is not same things

[@k_pop_entertainment]

Yes. And she was not professional singer with job, just studied in a vocal school...

[@Natasha_bazooca_mommy]

But we cannot just say that SM only finds already good vocalists when we have Lina, Luna for a example trained by them. Luna was a dancer that got into vocals

[@lchen2522]

Luna’s parents were classical singers, so she was born with a certain amount of vocal talent and probably had some training from an early age.

[@Natasha_bazooca_mommy]

@@lchen2522 what I can remember is that she was the opposite of her family, dance was always her passion and that was what made her got in the company, she was praised as the best dancer that auditioned that day. Her vocal background is not very clear, but she said that she got interested cause she wanted to be a complete performer like her past friend that was good at both too (at that time was a SeulGi that was starting vocal lessons too, pre vocal nodules and one of the probably F(x) members). She said that she couldnt sing that well, probably knew the basics, but her heavy vocal lessons she got in the company

[@lisac3043]

Hard to reach Doyoung's level as a boy group main vocalist~ good-looking, tall, well-known, good at dancing, great at singing, and amazing live vocal.

[@elinama7061]

The fact that there's so many idols in NCT that you could say the same about makes me so happy.

[@lulashepard3253]

I got a kick out of seeing his photo in this video.

[@kagomekirari25]

And hilarious

[@afiamahmood1313]

I feel like people who say that SM only recruits good vocalists have no idea about Taemin and Kai's improvement, or the fact that Luna originally auditioned to as a dancer. SM has the reputation they have because they train good vocalists, not recruit them. And I'm not an SM stan btw.

[@blue_leafs]

oh op loves to spread misinformation and he also don't do research on SM artists that's why he piss me off so bad cause he's literally lying

[@jcoxo]

He's talking about vocalists whose position is main vocals and who already had vocal training before the traineeship where they didn't need to train to become main vocals. Kai and Teamin also entered the company having already received dance training and debuted with main dancer positions. Positions in Kpop exist for a reason, and companies don't expect every idol to have all positions anyway.

[@Pos1t1veThinking]

@@jcoxo Agree with everything you wrote, except Taemin said he learned dancing by copying MJ, Rain etc that he saw on TV, then joined the company and got actual training.

[@jcoxo]

@@Pos1t1veThinking I didn't know, thank you for the correction. I just remember Taemin being great at auditions, so I assumed he was trained. (Still, he auditioned with dance and debuted as the main dancer.)

[@triplej8666]

There is a clip of the audition, and he was entirely self-taught up to that point@@jcoxo

[@victoralvesmarques9611]

Karina actually has my favorite tone in aespa

[@bluequeen8022]

Have you listened to her most recent ost? I cried

[@bebepak7811]

Same

[@Amy-lp2nl]

@@bluequeen8022what’s the name I wanna listen to

[@BSMutebi-uk3hi]

She actually has one of my favorite tones in kpop

[@deleyderismynamer]

I was just about to comment this. Her vocal tone is so pleasing to hear.

[@mohhhhhhhhgjghvcy]

Omg you should’ve included that clip of Karina when she sings "Menagerie" in the studio. Her musicality, and her tone is beautiful

[@Chuu_Vault]

Karina the unofficial Lead vocal of Aespa ✨. And as for idols who have improved i have a few choices (there are few are worth talking about): Taemin, Solar, Taeyeon; Tifanny and Seohyun, Haram of the girl group Billlie, Seulgi (i noticed during Birthday era more relaxation of Seulgi singing), and maybe Dreamcatcher? I dunno about the last one. Also Lily from predebut to now.....

[@brendan6555]

Solar has always been pretty excellent, her recent improvement is too slight to talk about.

[@619mmm]

agree with above, if anyone in mamamoo I feel like it would be Moonbyul, looking at her performances on Second world vs her debut or even her 4 seasons concert solo the improvement is way more obvious, she is also one idol who has actively started taking vocal lessons in the past year. I think Solar's improvement is only discussed because it's often compared to wheein's (supposed?) regression

[@Hellokitty_391]

Now Taeyeon is one of the best singers in kpop👏

[@ElleAlyssa18]

I was mad at SM sometimes when they decided for their idols to lip sync. Then when they sang live, i was like damn they are good, then im not mad anymore coz they always prove they are that good. The thing is kpop stan from other agencies tend to make fun and throw sarcasm when idols from SM lip sync. Here's my take, SM stand did not lip sync to cover their flaws. They are excellent when singing live its just sometimes they perhaps were asked to lip sync to kinda "preserve" their vocals in a long run. As for some idols from other agencies they lip sync to cover their flaws, as in they cant sing live. They struggle much

[@soona22573]

It's Taemin comeback time and I'd die to hear him sing Guilty live, I don't mind flaws and mistakes, and I don't mind him tuning down the choreography, I just prefer the live singing 🥲

[@ElleAlyssa18]

@@soona22573 oh yeah Taemin, id love to hear Guilty live too but i think the promotion ended already. He went to Akmu show but he only sang Move live. He didnt sang Guilty

[@averyatwell95]

​@@soona22573 I don't think we'll ever hear SM idols sing live for music shows anymore. I've seen they don't do it anymore since the pandemic. But you can check out it's live, killing voice, lee mujin service & concerts etc.

[@ElleAlyssa18]

@@averyatwell95 what do you mean by saying no more live music shows stages since pandemic. You seem to exaggerate a bit with that statement. NCT had a few comeback this year and there were live stages in music shows. Aespa sang live during Spicy promotion (except for a few earlier stages during comeback stages). The latest one Riize, their first stage and a few stages for Memories and Get a Guitar were live.

[@soona22573]

@@averyatwell95 yes I watched killing voice when it was releasing, happy to hear him singing, watched all the shows where he singed live, I keep reminding myself that even Taeyeon didn’t get a chance to perform INVU live in the music show, but Shinee did it once with Hard promotion and it was AWESOME this is why I was hopeful

[@Nameless_mixes]

I think the Jennie > Jisoo narrative is fueled by a few aspects: 1. Support = Jennie seems more consistent while singing whereas Jisoo tends to strain more (subjectively though, Jisoo’s strain does help her emote at times) 2. Range = I’ve said this since I became a Blink in 2019, a lot of songs sound like Rosé did all of the reference vocals and YGE just told Jisoo what to cover without considering her range. Similar to V in BTS, Jisoo’s deeper voice makes hitting those higher pitched notes more difficult. 3. Clarity = No, not the song. We’ll get to that next. But Jennie’s voice is a lot more clear and doesn’t sound nasally (an issue we sometimes see with idols like Jihyo and Seulgi). 4. Blinks = Y’all need to stop saying Jisoo is main vocalist material and then using her cover of “Clarity” as an example… There are infinitely better options. Stop setting her up for failure. And the number of pity stans she has creates an even greater push for people to want to support Lisa and Jennie because Jisoo’s solo stans act like they’re underserving of their lines and she should be the only one with lines. 5. Language = I feel like Jisoo is much more comfortable singing in Korean. I know, obvious is obvious, it’s her native language. But it definitely feels like her singing feels more relaxed and fuller with Korean lyrics than with English ones. But since BP’s discography has more English than Korean lyrics, it can be a struggle for her. Overall, I think Jisoo should really do more OSTs where her voice can shine. YGE/Teddy’s production isn’t helping her. She sounded strained on the studio versions of her own debut mini album. The company isn’t helping her.

[@CleverUsername69420]

Ugh that cover of Clarity was not it. Genuinely hurts to listen to. YG did her so dirty by making her sing it

[@David-tr4jl]

I think Jongho from Ateez has improved a lot since their debut, especially in his lower register. His recent special performance on the Ateez channel was really great. Plus, his more recent attempts of the high note in Wonderland Symphony 9 are a lot better than the famous one from Kingdom.

[@Eloritarinirel]

Using the lack of in-ear monitors as an excuse is funny considering some idols specifically choose not to wear them on stage and perform just fine

[@polyanagula]

I think Taemin's improvement in singing is amazing. going from 0 lines in the debut song to being an equal member of a vocally oriented group in a company with strong vocalists is impressive. But this vocal appreciation of the company is what made Taemin work so hard on his vocals. I get what you mean, saying that SM picks good vocalists, but honestly, most companies don't do even this bare minimum, and this effort from SM pays off by creating a healthy vocal competition. not only members who started weak like Taemin take vocal lessons, but even such main vocalists as Baekhyun keep taking vocal lessons. As a STAY, I see lots of improvement in the vocal abilities of SKZ members. I think the strongest improvement was in case of Seungmin, I.N and Lee Know. The first two were part of the vocal line, but let's be honest, they were not the strongest vocalists out there and when Woojin (the main vocal) left the group, it is the main rapper Han who took most of his part especially the most difficult ones, because Han had the most stable singing and the biggest range. I don't know when Seungmin started to take vocal lessons (btw he has the same teacher as Baekhyun), but one can see his improvement year by year and I feel so proud when I listen to his voice in their live performances. I.N improved as well, but I think Seungmin is a stronger vocalist overall. Regarding Lee Know, he got into the group for his dancing skills and debuted only after a few months of training, and he literally had 0 experience in singing and rapping before becoming a trainee, so he started at 0. but his improvement through the years is obvious and I love to hear how strong his voice sounds now and how well he sings his parts. It would be great to see a video about aces in kpop. I wonder if you include Han Jisung in that list. I think he deserves a spot there, but I don't know many idols that well, so I might evaluate the competition for this title wrongly.

[@Ana-zm7ox]

I feel like people just don't listen to boy groups. There's so many interesting vocalists: Kihyun and Jooheon of Monsta X, Hui and Jinho of Pentagon, BTOB's vocal line, Xiaojun, Jaehyun, Renjun, Chenle, Jungwoo, Ten and Kun of NCT, MJ, Moonbin, Sanha and Rocky of Astro, Woong of AB6IX, Seunghun of CIX, Keeho and Theo of P1Harmony, Seungmin of SKZ, Eunho of UNVS, Woozi of Seventeen, Suho and Chanyeol of EXO, Minho of Shinee, Jinyoung, Jay B and Youngjae of Got7, Sohee of RIIZE. And that is without mentioning any of the typical culprits. Are all of these top tier? No but anyone with ears will be pleased enough. The amount of great vocalists you find in a BG is around the same in a GG, I really don't know why people act like only one side can sing. I listen to both and I'm happy.

[@kellylee5003]

- Yunjin performed as a mezzo-soprano during her high school years. Basically, opera level vocals and her vocals are very unique. As much as I love HYBE considering that and giving her a bit opera on stage,but, lsf or kpop altogether really isn't much of a place for that. - SM has amazing vocalists! But gotta agree, not all of them are decent. Some of them had vocal training in advance, SM just ended up building on it. But uk, always room for improvement!! -Soooo true. Ur favs are not all rounders, get over it! SKZ, for example, has many members who have all three skills, but Han definetly stands out for his pretty good ability to hit high notes, be a great rapper, and also a pretty good dancer. - I literally don't even stan Nmixx (their music just isn't much of my type) but OMG Bae has never failed to amaze me. She delivers her lines as if she was made for it. Though there are other members who can sing better, she has amazing musicality. Your right, she could go against lead if not even main vocals. - In-ear moniters are an excuse I never fail to laugh over. I love twice, but those encore stages were not it. They just have issues with live singing, get over it hun. - I'm so glad you talked about it! Karina has fabulous visuals, there's no doubt. But, that's not all that she is! She is a very versatile artist, I'd put an all-rounder label easy. She has a very good vocal range (Side note : Her illusion vocals are just so unique-), is a very skilled dancer (She performed next to Kai and Taemin who are some of the best dancers in Kpop) and is very skilled in rap as well. I'm glad SM has allowed her to show her vocals. - This is literally no debate. I think people just talk without knowing the technicality in the parts? Jisoo has some technically more difficult parts than Jennie. Just because Jennie has more lines than Jisoo in some songs doesn't mean Jennie is as good. I'm not throwing hate, Jennie is a very good vocal too, but Jisoo is way more consistent and just overall has better vocals. I love your channel, another amazing video! Looking forward to the next one :)

[@Cryforme-]

Jennie is a better vocalist than Jisoo in terms of her technique

[@moreandmore395]

​@@Cryforme-surprise Both of them engage in costal breathing and both of them showcasing the same issues but jisoo is better at agility dynamics pitch and even developing head voice So stop bringing up the technique card when you have no clue about it

[@adebayobolutife5316]

Well in terms of the in-ear one , Armies are very much known for using that as an excuse 🙃

[@pataoyang4563]

I think Lee Seoho of ONEUS would be quite a good all-arounder. He also auditioned to RBW as a rapper, never really sang much prior to joining the company and is now the main vocalist of ONEUS. He also was quite inflexible when he started too, but he's now one of the better dancers of the group. And just going to add, if you haven't checked them out already, check out ONEWE. Yonghoon's vocals are top tier and deserve so much more love and recognition.

[@elinama7061]

I also think Han from Stray Kids and Seungyoun from X1 and Jun from U-Kiss is like the closest one can get to an all rounder. Like they can just switch their positions interchangeably and be so at ease with it.

[@MMDGabriel]

The term "all-rounders" is being thrown around by fans way too much to the point it just looses its meaning. For me, all-rounders should be someone who are above average in singing, dancing, performing, etc. Idols that came to my mind are Hyolyn for female idols and Taemin for male idols.

[@MANYASHETTY-or5fk]

Is karina considered an all rounder because her rap,vocals and dance are above average

[@btsismyoxyjin2013]

​@@MANYASHETTY-or5fkI honestly thought so but can't say for others

[@NingKook_]

In aespa Giselle is definitly the most underated espacially vocally, it's probably because she's the less popular and haven't a powerfull voice but she's not less skilled than Karina or nmixx's Kyujin, Jiwoo and Bae. Sometime sm treat her like a mediocre vocalist while she's quite decent

[@shinigagamimi]

shes definitely less skilled as far as we know. she hasnt shown anything truly impressive yet. her voice has no weight, therefore no power, her mixed voice becomes pretty tight above C#5, her agility is mediocre, her head voice is extremely weak and her falsetto isnt great either. in live performances giselle is barely audible often. especially when she has to belt in girls. her having a somewhat healthier approach than most sub vocalists doesnt make her very great in other aspects that are just as important as support (and theres no clear definiton for support either) so far karina and kyujin have shown to have a bigger range and better control over their voices aswell.

[@NingKook_]

@@shinigagamimi we didn't even seen her full potential

[@shinigagamimi]

@@NingKook_ well she‘s not doing anything to prove anyone wrong so shes clearly not passionate enough about singing anyways. and weve seen her push her limits already with her tight belting, slow agility and weak head voice. theres not much more to show for her

[@NingKook_]

@@shinigagamimi She said that she love singing and we seen vocalists worst than her having a lot of line due to their popularity or their tone.

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

@@NingKook_ Sure, we haven't seen Giselle's full potential, and what we have heard isn't bad (she's definitely better than the weakest vocalists in many other groups), but we also haven't seen anything to support your claim that she's just as skilled as Karina and Kyujin. Karina seems more talented than her in all the lives I've heard. I'm sure they'll all continue improving moving forward.

[@lilybminho]

An example of great vocal evolution is Lee Know. He was a professional dancer and was only a trainee for 1 month. He debuted in the group with practically no vocal training, but has been improving a lot, especially this year, when he started taking Voice Tuning classes, and now he is singing more challenging lines vocally. He has a great range and a beautiful timbre

[@Yeri-strawberry]

The one thing about SM is they at least don’t let their vocalists regress over time. In a lot of other groups you can tell that the vocalists were originally better than they are (I’ve heard this about Jihyo, Wheein, Jimin and others). This particularly annoys me because idols tend to get better at everything else over time except singing. It’s sad.

[@cutebunnyhops]

Doyoung has such stable live vocals, his voice is always loud and clear and so beautiful during live performance. During nct nation concert he had to perform almoat nonstop with nct 127 and nct u as he is present in all major tittle tracks

[@MinLoveMin]

He is in every NCT U's title track (exc. 90s Love) because: 1. he is a very reliable main vocalist, 2. he is popular and 3. tall enough.

[@BSMutebi-uk3hi]

@@MinLoveMin He's not in Work It either

[@carolinaesperilla3384]

Ten form NCT/WayV has improved a LOT. I'm a new fan but I'm amazed with not only his dance ability but vocally

[@exollence]

"we know how the story goes with HYBE and vocal training..." 😭 WHY CAN'T THEY JUST SEND THEIR ARTISTS TO GET HELP it's crazyyy to me

[@farichatulchusna5182]

I absolutely agree with you about SM! As a SM stan since 2010, here some of lists SM artist in term of vocally: 1. Good since beginning : Chen, Jonghyun (both attend the same vocal class I heard), Wendy, Taeyeon (I watch her supposed audition?), Baekhyeon, D.O (I heard he was a band vocalist when in highschool along with Hyunsik BtoB), Kyuhyun of Super Junior (I watched he supposed to be won over a competition before joined SM), Chenle (a famous kid singer even before joins SM), Xiaojun and Ningning (both were pickup from chinese competition and plenty of predebut videos😅). Improved alot : Taemin (he is my first bias, and I know his vocals potential since 2010), Seohyun and Sooyoung of SNSD (Seohyun joined SM since she was a kid, there is her voice training also, and now she is known for her vocal ability), Renjun of NCT Dream (in one video, he sangs a bit of Baby Dont Cry since he was debuted 2 or 3 years later with better vocals and continously improving, I assume SM treats his vocal well). Ten and Kun, especially Ten (don't forget his famous baby cover😅) I am still unsure due to lack predebut videos: Luna of FX, Yesung and Ryeowook of Super Junior, all of TVXQ members (I count as 5), Kai and Lay (I just don't notice their vocal progress). However I admit that some of SM artists are weak too vocally even though if you compare to other companies, they still seemingly have some basic trainings. I also want to mentioned that, some of SM Vocalist and ex-vocalist such as Haechan and Junsu (ex-TVXQ) went through puberty which I heard kind of hard to maintain a good vocal state.

[@soona22573]

ah it's just good to run to Taemin fans who always saw his potential

[@farichatulchusna5182]

@@soona22573 I was in fact really fallen in love with his vocals in "Hello".

[@milshaaddit6589]

Ryeowook is actually also already good since the beginning. He also attended the same singing competition as Kyuhyun, even won first place. While Kyuhyun only won second place. There is the video in youtube if you want to search it. I feel like all main vocalists from SM are already good since pre-debut, that's why SM cain maintain their vocal powerhouse title so far.

[@farichatulchusna5182]

@@milshaaddit6589 thank you

[@DREAM-re2up]

I would argue about Taeyeon being good from the beginning. SM training was what made her good. She was brought to SM Starlight Academy and this was the interview from the director at the time: “To answer who was the most memorable student, SNSD Taeyeon was the most memorable. When Taeyeon was in 2nd year of middle school, she showed up holding her dad’s hand. Considering she’s from Jeonju and in middle school she was too young, and she had to be accompanied by her dad. Her dad ran an eyeglasses shop and he told me this. He does not plan to have her become an entertainer or a singer, he knew very well how difficult that was. And it would be tiring for him to drive her up here each Sunday so he told me to persuade her to give up if I thought she had no basic talent and it wouldn’t work out for her. So I told him ‘Mr Kim, then we shall check out her singing’. And she sang, and well, she wasn’t that good like she is now. But her voice was clean. If she works hard she can do well, that’s what I felt. I asked Taeyeon there and she said she practices alone by singing along to songs on her computer. The child was too young I wasn’t sure how to set up her practice routines. But I asked her if she can work hard and she replied that she can work hard. So I told her dad ‘It may be hard for you but the child loves to sing, and even if I make her quit here she will continue on her own. She has gleaming eyes, she has a good voice why don’t we let her practice here for six months or a year and see how it goes.’ So her dad brought her from Jeonju every Sunday and he waited until the evening while she received the lessons then took her home. He labored liked that for a year.”

[@slaystinn]

I was genuinely shocked about Yunjin as I thought her vocals were decent, and she has acquired a developed basic skill as a singer, but after consuming this information, the more I actually agree. I think what holds Yunjin back is that her voice can be very light and already stylistic in the classical style which in some aspects it allows her to sound very nasal and beautiful of that type of singing however translated into pop music can be unfortunately sound slightly off and out of place due to the stylistic choices of classical music. It just sounds slightly off in the process. I feel like if Yunjin wants to take her vocal to the next level, she would have to deconstruct everything and build her technique from a technical standpoint in pop styles if she wants to. At the end of the day, Yunjin is a good vocalist in lesserafim, and I really appreciate her skills.

[@torikpop822]

The thing with Jennie and Jisoo is not the technical side of it, it’s the songs choice, JISOO’s tone just doesn’t suit the group’s songs. Out of all of their songs I can only think of 3-5 songs where her voice suited the song, but Jennie’s tone always suit the style of the song.

[@thebestlife1174]

Karina has amazing live vocals while performing. She's a true talent amongst the 4th gen.

[@Kais_Peaches]

I was stalking your page waiting for today's upload. Also, congrats on surviving an army attack 😌✊️ I need you to make a video about taemin's improvement specifically; he's like the only one to improve overtime.

[@suhpernova]

my fave voice from aespa is karina don't know how to explain it but i just love it especially in the sad waltz ost

[@MANYASHETTY-or5fk]

Same

[@abcdef-kf3my]

EXO main vocals are talented, gifted and skilled before debut and after debut they still receive vocal training. Just imagine them now. And lead vocals are so good they could pass as main vocals in other groups. And rappers produce music as vocalist and not rap songs in their solos. Ughh literal Vocal Kings.

[@tyrell423]

I would love to see a video on how rose or nayeon or yeonjun have improved vocally or overall since their debut!

[@DeeDeeDeeeee]

Nayeon has remained stagnant since debut tho. If anything she regressed in like 2020, and then came back from it during Pop era.

[@Verowinday777]

Nayeon improved dance wise though she is still like a decent dancer not a great one !

[@abcdef-kf3my]

Karina is so underrated period

[@kiki13451]

I WISH Karina was a lead vocalist or something. I’ve said this for a while and not necessarily for skill because I’m not a professional with vocals, but she CAN SING and sounds GOOD. And it’s very hard sometimes to differentiate between winter and ningning because they have higher voices but Karina’s lower voice sounds good to me. But I’m glad she gets a lot of lines to sing especially in GOT the beat.

[@lavexismusic7878]

You should definitely do the Video on All-Rounders. Of the idols that I know of in 4th Gen, Karina and Kyujin are the only one I'd consider as All Rounders

[@averyatwell95]

Nah they're not really good at rapping.

[@lavexismusic7878]

@@averyatwell95 maybe not kyujin, but I respectfully disagree for Karina

[@averyatwell95]

@@benedettaaaaa_ yes agree.

[@copyrightreserved8346]

​@@benedettaaaaa_idol rapper, real rapper ,kpop fans mostly fans of bts made their own definition of rapping

[@SkyFWWO]

Heejin and Yves of Loona added tysm (ik orbits gonna say kim lip but nah shes not)

[@MimiXtinaChelleKRow]

Taeil, Doyoung and Xiaojun will always be my top 3 from NCT.

[@lulashepard3253]

Yeah, I was wondering why Taeil wasn’t being mentioned. I understand he’s injured, but jeeze… I also have to put in a good word for Kyuhyun, Yesung, and Ryeowook of Super Junior. It’s beyond me why their names don’t come up more, especially when discussing SM vocalists.

[@nvm7430]

‘Sound the way struggle feels’ is my new favorite phrase xD

[@danielgabriel370]

Actual all rounder in K-pop is very rare.

[@boss_babyi]

Karina is really an underrated vocalist, just because she's a main dancer, a lead dance and a visual/fotg/center, people kind of underestimate her with the obsession of "visual members are untalented"

[@HailToTheMeep]

Critiquing lack of vocal technique is one thing. To say someone "can't sing" is something else. Kpop comment sections never fail to fail.

[@FearlessBunnyy]

agree but Giselle is also an amazing vocalist i think she's more underrated Sm just doesn't give her a chance to showcase her vocals

[@k_pop_entertainment]

I think you should to watch video about low standarts 😅 Even Winter not "amazing" vocalist, just "good".

[@brandoncrenshaw5027]

For me I like when it comes to groups every member have different vocal styles that's why EXO is my favorite vocal group every member is amazing in their own style. You got the main three vocalists and you have to lead vocalists. Kai and sehun have both definitely improved even though in the beginning their voices were great what is years went by they got even better yes they're not main vocalists butt those two have amazing sweet voices that people love that's why EXO works so good together

[@ahdianee]

would love a video on kpop’s all rounders, personally Baekhyun & Seulgi come to mind when I think of this they’re extremely good at everything they do (I don’t think rapping should be a qualification here)

[@T_kats]

Regarding Jisoo and Jennie, I think people need to learn that lack of support isn’t the only way to strain. Things such bad larynx position, jaw tension, throat closure, and just lack of openness can also lead to straining. If Jisoo really lacked support, then how is she the most stable singer in bp??? 😭

[@averyatwell95]

Because being stable while dancing is not related to support?? Many weak vocalists are stable while dancing & many good vocalists aren't that stable. It's just stamina. And Rosé is the most stable one in bp.

[@Moonchild0]

True. I think Jisoo is more stable than Jennie. Her live vocals impressed me. She is not my bias... but I think fans of BP like Jennie's timbre (vocal color) more than Jisoo. I don't like Jisoo timbre either.. but I think she is a better vocalist than Jennie. Though both have issues with straining.. at least to some extent

[@CleverUsername69420]

Bc she yells more than she sings.

[@T_kats]

@@averyatwell95 1. It literally is? Singing and dancing both require core engagement which is needed for balance, stability, breath management and you guessed it! breath support. There are more interlinked than you think. 2. Weak vocalists are usually given less lines that are also not vocally demanding. So it’s easier for them to be stable while dancing. 3. Opposite to weak vocalist, It would be harder for them to be stable while dancing since they’re typically given more lines and the more vocally challenging parts.

[@danielsick4927]

Gurl she barely dance,yeah she's the most stable😂

[@luxtina2847]

My unpopular opinion would be: There is a double standart for cursive singing, men don't get labeled if they sing in cursive they are praised, women get hate for singing in cursive. Jimin and V from BTS constantly sing in cursive and I have never seen anyone talking about it.

[@yolandamgulwa4869]

YES THANK YOU!! Especially Taehyung. I can barely hear what he is saying in their songs especially when he sings English lyrics.

[@btsismyoxyjin2013]

Good point

[@andreapaola2750]

What does mean sing in cursive? /gen

[@T_kats]

I think a lot of people in the comments don’t understand the difference of technique vs tonality. Someone having a tone you don’t like doesn’t mean they’re bad technically and someone having having a tone you like doesn’t equate to their technique prowess.

[@hitomiryoma6240]

I think in Yunjin's case I see she tries a little bit to sound like classical singer but I want to describe two point about it: One thing is classical TECHNIQUE and other is classical Style, therefore is not the same to say "she's singing like a classical singer" than "she has classical technique". I use to practice with classical technique but my teacher told me " You don't need to sound like a classical singer just because you're learning classical technique, you don't need to change your voice to sound like one you don't really are" That's what I want to explain because maybe some people can think or suppose classical technique/style is the same thing when it isn't. The style is part of one, you can sound like you want if you want, add some nasality, or maybe using a vocal color like dark or bright, in any ways the technique is what you learn and the style is what you want to add to your singing.

[@taengooyaa7338]

I remember when SNSD had their encore in a large event (Golden Disk) with loud bactrack and no earpiece but managed to sing their song. ❤ And yes, Bae is a really good vocalist. Also Karina 😍

[@riffgroove]

Both Taeyeon and Wendy both developed vocal nodules shortly after after arriving at SM because they learned that they weren't singing properly when they started.... which kind of destroys your theory. And I'm just going to say that although she's a lead vocalist, Seulgi would be a main vocalist in any group that didn't already have Wendy in it.

[@94mp99]

Tiffany also. At one point she had vocal nodules which effected her vocal, you can see that in SNSD debut era, she usually had only one or two lines despite being one of the group vocal line, which I assume that she was still not fully recover. But after Genie, Tiffany improves so much to the point that she usually get the second most lines in SNSD songs, behind only to Taeyeon. And now Tiffany is SNSD's third best vocalist (fourth if you include Jessica).

[@thewaitisogre]

sohee of riize just debuted, but if you watch his pre debut videos you can tell he’s improved his technique a lot. they did something right when they trained him.

[@seafoodjapchae]

Appreciation to Sohee makes me so happy,the fact that he can still improve a lot is captivating

[@thewaitisogre]

@@seafoodjapchae i heard that he used to work a side job to pay for his own singing lessons and if it’s true that’s so admirable. i can’t wait to see how his voice improves and develops in the future.

[@baccano5003]

You could make a video about dancers that are vocalist and how he do on stage: the sing or dance? The choose what? For exemple: Seulgi (lead vocalist and main dancer) and Taemin (main dancer and lead/sub vocalist) but these two have solo songs so I think will be interisting to know (also there is alot more like Chungha and others....)

[@soona22573]

omg I never heard Yunjin's before wtf I'm shocked, I always thought le sserafim lacks every aspect of vocality, still a fan of their sweet angelic songs and performances (impurities & perfect night)

[@saiki.k__8144]

There are only yunjin and chaewon who are decent vocalist. The others lack a lot.

[@Manchis123]

@@happy_ryujin she is not trained opera singer

[@shinigagamimi]

@@happy_ryujinyunjin is classically trained and not even a lot. she‘s is not an opera singer omg

[@shinigagamimi]

@@happy_ryujin doesnt matter. u talked about her being/being trained to become an opera singer which is still wrong. she was classically trained. classical training alone is not enough to be an opera singer.

[@averyatwell95]

​@@saiki.k__8144 Chaewon is just decent not skilled.

[@forthemusic2037]

I think it's not the SM main vocals where you see the SM water. But the improvement in those who were selected for other roles. Taemin etc. Karina is a VERY underrated singer because outside (and sometimes even inside) of the aespa fandom, all people focus on are her looks. Interesting observation about there being better vocalists in boy groups than girl groups. I don't listen to as many bgs, but will definitely try to pay more attention now.

[@titi7440]

Karina is my fav tone in 4th gen

[@treeoflife9960]

I just think that in Korea it's not seen as necessary for female idols to actually be good at singing. It seems much more important that they are pretty and marketable, skill is a bonus.

[@shinigagamimi]

switch female with male and i‘d agree. the standards for female idols is just as high if not higher when it comes to singing compared to male idols

[@treeoflife9960]

@@shinigagamimi that's bs. the video literally says that there's more vocally skilled male idols out there than females. if what you claimed would be true it would be the other way round. fact is: most companies go for looks rather than skill when it comes to debuting female idols. this also becomes prominent when you look at the current most successful boy and girl groups. IVE, New Jeans, Le Sserafim all are not particularly skilled in singing yet immediately got popular because they have some very pretty members what makes them marketable. On the other hand BTS, Seventeen, Stray Kids, NCT all took a while to get where they are because they needed to prove themselves. All these boy groups are known rather for their dance, rap and singing skills than for their looks. Excluding BTS they are also much less popular with the general public. Nmixx is arguably the most skilled female vocal group of the 4th gen and their popularity is nowhere near that of the aforementioned groups because the general public does not care. Lily and Purple Kiss's Swan are constantly prone to criticism about their appearance, despite being good vocalists, Taeyeon's sister did not debut under SM although she was one of the most skilled trainees, because she didn't fit the beauty standart. And that is the harsh reality for female idols: being pretty is more important than being a good vocailst.

[@shinigagamimi]

@@treeoflife9960 if looks were all that mattered 2ne1 would not have been as big as they were since they were considered to be an ugly girl group. nmixx isnt popular for big3 standards because none of the members have star power/the it factor. talent alone was never all that was needed. and visuals being important isnt a bad thing at all. thats the way things are everywhere. people want to look at hot people. boy groups arent popular amongst the general public because they are boy groups. boy groups only chance of becoming succesful is if they build a huge fanbase which is easier for them than for girl groups since most kpop fans are girls and most girls are into men and attraction towards ur idols plays a huge role in whether or not youre going to stan them in many fans cases. girl group fandoms are way less loyal and gg’s are more likely to be discarded once a new popular girl group emerges because most of their fans do not feel that same attraction and emotional connection to them. the general public treats girl groups the same. once a newer younger group debuts the other ones are forgotten. just look at twice. i‘m not sure about how it is in all of kpop but for the 4th gen there‘s definitely way more skilled singers in girl groups than boy groups. boy groups have strongest dancers on average. but thats really it.

[@lyd2460]

​​@@treeoflife9960💯💯💯 correct. I've seen male kpop idols debut in famous group who don't fit the beauty standard because they are talented but female idols who don't fit the standard rarely debut and if they do they are non existent in the group and are put in the back burner for other members who are less talented but have good looks .

[@averyatwell95]

​@@treeoflife9960 kinda true. Fir example IU, Yoona, Suzy, all the female artists who are famous are for their visuals. But the actual skilled ones are not as popular as them eg. Hyolyn, Luna, Eunji, etc.

[@richardkianindra2909]

i cant agree more with you about karina , people often underestimate her because of her position in the grup and of course of how powerful winter and ningning are , but she is so well rounded vocalist , and probably the best all rounder i know

[@pixcaine]

i think kyujin, wendy and hyolyn are genuine all rounders

[@Verowinday777]

If Kyujin and Wendy improve their rap skills then sure !

[@MANYASHETTY-or5fk]

Karina too

[@Doyoungbread127]

About the vocal improvement video, I think the whole EXO have improved over the years (they`ve really worked hard)

[@analizapit8171]

I agree with the comment for jimin. He is really not a good vocalist. It is proved so many times. There si many excuse: his in ear or he's not feeling well. But now we know thetruth

[@stylishchae6411]

as a lesserafim stan and a yunjin ult im begging hybe to give them some proper vocal lessons omg they have so much potential

[@nightingale4786]

yes! I'm so here for the karina appreciation! typically i think all-rounder is overused to hell and back but for me personally, she fits my definition perfectly. imo, in order to be an allrounder, you need to have a justifiable lead/main position in 2/3 skills (dance/rap/vocal) and competency in the other. karina is the best rapper, and dancer in aespa and she can certainly hold it down vocally as well! also i find the comment abt it being easier to find better vocalists in boy groups in comparison to girl groups is true for high level of dancing skills as well. ofc that's not to say that gg members can't dance or arent as good in a case by case basis. but i do think that though visuals are important for all of kpop, they are more important in ggs and frankly you can see it in the way where women like soyeon and hwasa are belittled for their appearance far severely than any bg member.

[@AnzzCheatedOnMarkWithHaechan]

I have been speaking to my friend about this earlier.. And I said " male idols have techniques and vocals but have boring or unimpressive concept while female idols have impressive concepts majority of them lack in both singing and rapping.." That's why ggs seem like they're better then bgs while you'll see more ggs lip sync and use back track than bgs on the other hand bgs seem like they all sound the same or follow the same sound..each gg has their unique sound that can easily be identified (and this absolutely does not apply to all cases but majority

[@geeerom]

Bae the Balancer 🫶

[@trodat07]

Twice's best singers are also the three members with more years as trainees by a great difference, and that's no coincidence. Once the group debuted, all ongoing training seems to have ended, and all 9 were released 'into the wild' with the skills they managed to develop so far.

[@galitzef]

the only members who seem to be continuing to train in vocals are momo and tzuyu. last year, momo was training with her vocal coach, her vocal coach complimented her for always trying to improve even during the world tour. and tzuyu has sounded better throughout the years cuz at first, she wasnt good at all

[@kruelpse]

tzuyu improved her vocals this year.. with a greath vocal coach she probably will have a good technique

[@melrzhs]

yes! and i really enjoy karina's tone~ i hope she can shine more as well!!

[@treeflamingo]

Aside from Taemin, who wasn’t even allowed to sing on their debut song and is now a competent vocalist, I don’t know of any idols who have made serious improvements in their singing. Rapping, yes, but singing? I’d definitely enjoy a video on the topic!

[@xmhcix5310]

i don’t stan riize so this might be a crazy comment but i just… cannot believe that sm entertainment has debuted a group with such a lineup. i feel like only sohee can sing (like, ACTUALLY sing), and only then, he’s average.

[@kiv.k]

I think maybe you're getting a bit ahead of yourself? Sure, they're not exo or shinee but they're probably the best boy group in terms of vocals post in 4th/5th gen. Also, calling sohee mid is.. a bit crazy, no?

[@xmhcix5310]

@@kiv.k i wouldn't say they have the best vocals in post 4th/5th gen though. good vocals are hard to find in groups that are popular in the big 4 right now (i honestly would take yg out of that but that's a whole nother story). anyways, i'm not comparing riize to shinee or exo, and i'm sorry if it made it seem like that. i meant for riize to be an sm group period -- a company with a high standard for vocals. i feel like we're just going to agree to disagree on this though incase you're curious: i'd praise groups like zerobaseone, nmixx, and kiss of life. edit: i realized you said boy group, but nmixx and kiss of life are still examples i suppose

[@kiv.k]

@xmhcix5310 haven't heard of nmixx or kiss of life so I'm not gonna say anything about that. I think I might be partially biased since I'm only really stanning riize because they get promotions and exo doesn't. And riize's songs are fun for me. If exo was treated properly I'd probably never listen to riize either.

[@xmhcix5310]

@@kiv.k that's fair. i'm happy you enjoy riize songs, there's nothing wrong with that :) like i said, agree to disagree. i hope you have a great day/night, take care

[@kiv.k]

@@xmhcix5310 u too, take care !

[@eimearc]

i loveeeee karina's voice in dreams come true

[@k-fun8377]

well people always ignore talking about bp in the comments it seems.i def agree that jisoo is better than jennie,jenstans acing like vocal coaches will never not be funny to me i mean how delusionnal do u have to be ong.Vocals isnt about that stupid kva rankings and it certainly isnt about support,and if u really only wanted to talk abt support,then jisoo would still be better anyway,i always point out that support isnt what makes someone a good vocalist and that there is no such thing as below averge or mid average or shallow support but these people keep inventing words by themselves.

[@yooyoyoyoyo243]

Gunwook from zb1 is a true all rounder. Amazing vocals, dance, rap (actually writes his raps and has nice flow) and stage presence and he’s just 18!

[@vkskms]

agree!

[@Verowinday777]

I suspect that since y'all said the same thing about every single idol !

[@vkskms]

@@Verowinday777 wdym

[@mymelodramaticantics]

@@Verowinday777 do you even know who the kid is? Why is everything you write about every idol so negative

[@Verowinday777]

@@mymelodramaticantics Who r u anyway ? And that’s my choice,6 people agree with me.

[@arlene6308]

Youre so correct about the in-ears. Fans just make excuses.

[@Sandra.Maphole]

Dongwoon from Beast/Highlight improved quite a bit over the years (even Yoseob improved tbh). Their 12:30 stages were always hard to perform, but seeing Yoseob belt his high notes constantly since they went independent and Dongwoon taking up Hyunseung parts in most of their songs has been quite impressive

[@mellisalake7490]

I only recently got into them but I'm happy that they are showing growth even after not being as active anymore.

[@Sandra.Maphole]

@@mellisalake7490 they actually have 1 group comeback a year (last year they did 2) and have 1 fanmeet and/or concert as well so they are actually quite active for a 14yo group! Yoseob just wrapped up his solo con tour and they are preparing for their fanmeeting. "Highlight nunafans" don't have everything but they do have 4k fancams of almost every single korean perfs they do if you're interested

[@Hellokitty_391]

Frfr our Prince Maknae 💜

[@upnomores]

6:51 twice aren't the best vocalists, even the performances of their main vocalists (jihyo + nayeon) are sometimes a hit or miss but i think its only fair to acknowledge how far they have come in terms of vocals, which is more prominent when they started touring. fans have been praising them for still having the energy to dance + perform good vocals even when it reached the 3-hour point of their shows. honestly, i still get defensive when people bring up their encore stages, especially during the pandemic. yes, they weren't in the best place vocal-wise during that time but it was heartbreaking to see how much shit they got for it. they certainly got better but i am sure as hell that the bullying they got for it was not worth the trauma i know they had lol. they became so scared to sing during encore stages since then and it took some time before they could actually have fun again and they didn't deserve that. i'm still angry because of it. no idol; actually, NOBODY, deserves that. we have all the right to criticize entertainment figures, especially if we know they are still lacking in certain areas but kpop fans can be so fucking ruthless. constructive criticism is different from being sore losers who project your issues to people who only wish to entertain. regardless of how much the kpop industry makes it seem that these idols are commodities, they're fucking humans too. its really not the end of the world if you catch them being pitchy on a fucking encore stage where they are supposed to be celebrating a win.

[@MBJK_baby]

Karina's lower range is stunning imo. As well as her belts. I actually learned to belt with a lot of aespa songs as I was struggling for a long time.

[@The_bocamahooia2008]

DOYOUNG IS TOO UNDERRATED

[@George-Giorgi]

Yuchan of A.C.E has had huge improvement from debute to now

[@k0k0m0n]

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS MY PERSPECTIVE ON JISOO AND JENNIE Jisoo still has issues, but considering the parts she got in ddu du ddu du and kill this love, she can still pull them off pretty fine and is definitely more similar and consistent in her live and mv vocals than jennie

[@vierpm9554]

i once watched sisters slam dunk (it was a show where various random women were put together in a girl group to record a song together) and they had a vocal coach from sment there. they ofc cut the whole thing and the show most certainly followed a script, but when it ended, i felt like all the girls (and some of them were no singers/idols) had gained a lot of confidence and did improve. thought that was interesting to see...

[@buttertoastie9061]

also f(x) Luna apparently entered SM for her dancing, which is crazy to think about

[@Nameless_mixes]

I think it’s easier for female idols to get away with stylistic vocals than male ones. Male idols don’t have the luxury to make their voices high pitched and cutesy. They can add a bit of quickness and sound similar to Yungblud. But it’s not as generally well received as say a similar vocal style amongst female vocalists (like Camila Cabello). And it’s difficult to go in the opposite direction because so many songs tend to be higher pitched. This makes it harder for idols like V to do well when BTS’ music is better catered to Jimin’s tone (agin, that higher pitched, stylistic approach) that can even be a bit much for Jungkook and Jin. So then you have to find work arounds like Felix of Stray Kids having few yet iconic lines. Or you just have more competent male vocalists (Seventeen, Highlight, BTOB, Pentagon, Monsta X, Cravity, Onewe, Oneus, Ateez, Forestella, etc + every SME boy group). So, that makes the bar a bit higher for male idols since they can’t just pitch their voices up or down to receive the same reception as their female counterparts).

[@shinigagamimi]

someone like felix isnt a good example because his singing voice does not sound deep at all unless he‘s singing low. he‘s just not a good singer which is why he doesn‘t sing in most of their title tracks and only talks/raps

[@Nameless_mixes]

⁠@@shinigagamimiI was using him as an example of an idol intentionally changing their voice to sound more unique. You’re correct in that he isn’t that great of a singer (hence why I’m always trying to get stans to understand that not every idol is or has to be an all rounder). But I was trying to point out how it’s easier for female idols (and female singers in general) to sing in a more stylistic manner than their male peers as it’s usually more appealing to audiences. I’m sorry if I didn’t get that point across well enough. With all of my rambling, the intnetion of what I’m writing definitely can get lost in everything lol 😂❤️

[@shizukunoseija8048]

7:52 "this is after 9 minutes of live performance" is fascinating for me because there are many artists who annually perform 2 hours concerts 2x/week for 3-4 months. It seems in kpop the bar is quite low that doing that after only 9 minutes singing is considered impressive 😅

[@wazitooya]

2hrs concerts have breaks and stuff. 9 minutes of performance that includes DANCING then proceed to live singing IMMEDIATELY is impressive. aespa has had 2hrs of concerts as well and yes, it was not impressive that they managed to sing live in that concert.

[@kjdfancams1965]

be serious it was a 9 minute perfomance in award show

[@foreversolely]

Id choose Taemin and Ten of idols who improved vocally overtime

[@f.a.s.1746]

Feel like solar and moonbyul have improved vocally in recent years. Solar especially after mati hara

[@shoyuramenoff]

I know Jisoo isn't the best singer overall, but I ended up falling in-love with her voice when she covered Yuki No Hana. When she's in those deep lower tones, she sounds absolutely beautiful. A large part of what upsets me about the stuff YG gives her is the register is way higher than where she shines, and she sounds extremely strained.