How Vertebrates Prevailed Over the Giant Insects

[@GanonGhidorah]

"They put more backbone into it."

[@joshchavers7391]

You sir are funny. :)

[@rosspasse7847]

PUNS! quips! Jokes!

[@samiamrg7]

They put more backbone into evolving lungs that don’t suck.

[@Paul-Weston]

Plus a fair bit of elbow grease.

[@michaelkirshner3099]

Genius

[@stefanostokatlidis4861]

Arthropods do still attain large sizes, especially in islands with few or no large vertebrates. Not as large as in the Carboniferous, but still impressive for the cenozoic.

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Gotta love coconut crabs

[@epicbastard1]

Deep-sea gigantism is also very prevalent in invertebrates. The japanese spider crab puts even carboniferous invertebrates to shame.

[@naverilllang]

@@epicbastard1 is it deep sea gigantism, or is it shallow sea diminuism? 😉

[@davidschaftenaar6530]

I've seen experiments where they raised present-day insects (I think it was cockroaches) in an atmosphere with oxygen levels similar to those in the carboniferous: They grew _way_ bigger than normal.

[@ustanik9921]

@@davidschaftenaar6530 I would like to see that, do you have any links?

[@coe3408]

Amazing as usual! Only a note: actually tree ferns still exist, maybe not as tall, but in New Zealand some species can reach 20 m. Also scorpions are pretty common in tropical rainforest.

[@bookerrobinson5679]

Yeah I was wondering about that because I have a 4m tall tree fern right outside my room. They are one of my favorite plants! Also I live in a rainforest environment and I can confirm there are plenty of scorpions...

[@petterssonigolvet391]

@@bookerrobinson5679 how many?

[@thecunundrumchannel6344]

In Puerto Rico we have tree ferns not very tall maybe like 10 feet tall, very skinny... its just a huge Fern on a stick the leaves are just a bit meattier. Very uncommon as well a pity, but they have strict requirements most of our city's land is nowhere cool/humid enough, in the jungle it would definetly.

[@rogerwilco2]

Yeah, I was also wondering why he did not mention or show the tree ferns of New Zealand. It would have been a much better illustration.

[@lordsrednuas]

Indeed, Cyathea australis regularly reaches (and occasionally exceeds) 20m. (That's an Australian fern if the name didn't give it away) That said, the Carboniferous forests would still be very weird. Plant's whose closest living relatives are club mosses stood over 35m tall Horsetails 15m tall I honestly can't think of carboniferous ferns as tall as modern Australian and New Zealand examples off the top of my head Psaronius and Medullosa both topped out at about 10m if memory serves.

[@Tentacular]

Once again, the visuals used in these videos really add to what we hear, making it all as pleasant as it is informative.

[@Requiredfields2]

Not to mention the soothing and barely audible music which also adds to what we hear without intruding.

[@Artersa]

Requiredfields2 good catch

[@bunnie187]

@@Requiredfields2 I have my volume low, I didn't even notice 😰

[@graciliraptor3990]

I especialy enjoyed the weird tree illustration, I didn't notice the difference in the illustrations of this periode that I had seen before

[@WaddIes]

as an artist, i really appreciate that he credits who made them also

[@mothlightmedia1936]

The Carboniferous was overwhelmingly the most popular topic suggested so I hope you enjoy. I accidently referred to cronioscuchus as croniosaurus, and pulmonoscorpius as pulmonoscorpio but seeing as they are spelt correctly on the screen I didn’t think it was worth re uploading the video, so hopefully it isn’t too annoying.

[@jaisanatanrashtra7035]

Awesome video but There were very less arthropods you mentioned I though you would add megarachne and Hibbertopterus too

[@WayfaringWizards]

Thanks!

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Doraemon Universe I'm most likely going to do a video eurypterids in the future wheee I'll talk about megarachne

[@thefurrybastard1964]

Enjoyed the video, now I have a hypothetical question. Imagine if the Arthropods had developed lungs early in the Carboniferous.

[@Xaiff]

@@thefurrybastard1964 if that happened, we might not have a neck right now. 🤣🤣🤣

[@cuteButKindaDeadlyBreloom]

Vertebrates: exoskeletons are nice but ya'll ever herd of bONES

[@jayphoenix3756]

*Ｈａｌｌｏ， ｗｅ ａｒｅ Ｂｏｎｅｙ Ｂｏｉｓ*

[@marvalice3455]

Broke: beating bugs because of your bones Woke: beating bugs because of your camera eyes Bespoke: beating bugs because you have lungs.

[@KermitFrogThe]

Having a predefined internal skeleton is more of a limit on diversity than a strength. This is proven by the number of vertebrates with vestigial limbs they have no use for. Exoskeletons are not the limits to size, breathing apparatus is. If vertebrates breathed using free flowing tubes we would be at least as small as invertebrates.

[@franciscomartinez-losaerec2532]

@@KermitFrogThe Except that endoskeletons are way more efficient as muscle attachments and their volume doesn't grow as much as exoskeletons do when you scale up the animal. Also backbones have proven time and time again to have the ability to increase an animal's speed and agility by a lot. Aquatic arthropods don't have the oxygen restriction than their land counterparts do, and yet vertebrates kicked them out of the top of the food chain the instant they evolved jaws.

[@MrOiram46]

MarvAlice *Wheezes whilst beating bugs on table*

[@ShummaAwilum]

To whoever joined your patreon as "Ken Ham", I salute you.

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Hopefully someone else will ask to be called Kent hovind

[@lowmax4431]

lmfao.

[@SharksandDinos]

That or it happens to be another person with the same name.

[@galahadthreepwood9394]

I nearly choked on my sandwich when I saw that name! Lol!

[@Viatoreptil]

I just scrolled down to the comments for this same reason.

[@iksarguards]

Small claws in modern day scorpions is usually indicative of potent venom. The animal is relying on its venom to kill prey instead of its crushing claws. Could a venomous telson have evolved as early as the Carboniferous?

[@sjl197]

Small claws isn’t clearly linked to venom potency. Also, potent against what, the effects of any venom varies by target

[@carlorielmendez6505]

@@sjl197 As a scorpion keeper, I know the small claw+fat tail+strong venom as highly venomous and vice-versa to be a bad generalization. It still depends.

[@nickkorkodylas5005]

@@sjl197 Not deterministically linked but it's a rather reliable rule of thumb.

[@dondragmer2412]

@Steven Baal "It's" for "it is."

[@artemislogic5252]

@@carlorielmendez6505 well all scorpions have venom right? thats what the tail is for, what we determine 'potent' venom is usually in comparison to how it affects humans which would be erroneous for the time period, i'd guess the venom they had was very potent for catching their prey in that period

[@Stepica]

Wish this content was available while studying biology at high school. So much easier to get the jist of it, than just reading a textbook. Very well put together, nice flow to in, good balance between detail and big-picture

[@WillJM81280]

And yet the most intelligent people in history were voracious readers. Suck it up and read the books.

[@squodge]

@@WillJM81280 - do you have evidence or proof of this? For instance, there's no evidence that Socrates did much reading, if any. A lot of intelligent people, particularly centuries ago, were illiterate. So yeah, you can't just say that the most intelligent people in history were voracious readers - it's just not true.

[@calle406]

@@squodge do you have evidence or proof that it’s not true ?

[@ryke9610]

@@WillJM81280 and only idiots shit on people for finding new ways to learn. Learning is learning.

[@caesar7786]

@@WillJM81280 because the technology didn't exist back then

[@Samiitriis]

"What came first? The chicken or the egg?" Well, now that I've learned about amniotes I can confidently say egg.

[@Arterexius]

Not entirely, cause the species that the amniotes came from, laid another type of egg. However, it is definitely an animal that came before the eggs, as single celled life evolved into multicelled life, which then evolved the eggs required for easier reproduction. Even we humans use eggs. We just don't lay them.

[@Samiitriis]

@@Arterexius Your proving eggs were around long before the creature we call chickens existed. Eggs are in many creatures and chicken is just a chicken. Eggs came first.

[@muggensan8611]

@@Samiitriis indeed but in those terms the question is not interesting , if you talk about fish eggs ou whatever , the real point is what came first between the chicken and the chicken's egg , this is a little bit more interesting question , but however the egg still came first xD

[@Goro_Maj1ma]

@@Samiitriis that doesn't prove anything.

[@notsid3]

The omlette, I think. It gives purpose to the egg and the chicken.

[@gregreeves-smith5578]

I believe it was fungi, not bacteria that ended the Carboniferous by evolving the ability to break down wood.

[@Motofanable]

Sir you are correct. Fungi are known for their capability to break down polymers.

[@GelloWello]

@@Motofanable thoo several varieties of bacteria also famously break down wood. Like the ones in termites that are known to allow it to ‘digest’ wood

[@badoem5353]

@@GelloWello but how old are termites compared to fungi?

[@مريمداودي-ي4ص]

I guess it's myriad of organism since there are insects and many animals that can break down wood

[@cchavezjr7]

@@badoem5353 It's not the termites, it's the bacteria which would be older than the termites.

[@immortalsofar5314]

There's something about ferns - they're just so...ancient. I was peeing in a wood once and the wind caught a really tall fern making it move just like a cobra ready to strike. All I could think was "TRIFFID!!!!!!!"

[@midgetman4206]

"please don't bite it, anything but that" yeah that would be terrifying

[@joelbusald6416]

A scorpion as big as a cat couldn't hide in your shoe when you go camping

[@hititmanify]

They hide in the sleeping bag

[@ConnanTheCivilized]

Imagine trying to give your pet scorpion a bath…

[@dickeater5763]

@@hititmanify nightmare fuel

[@fightinglionenjoyer4503]

I would commit suicide immediately if i got time traveled back and saw that

[@gibbogle]

That is not very reassuring, though, to time-travellers.

[@koalawithchaingun53]

Imagine a world full of large intelligent beetles that thought squirrels and pigeons were creepy

[@rudyschwab7709]

I was pondering what it might be like to have giant scorpions wondering through our yards, just to get plucked up and thrown into a boiling pot of water...... Land Lobster for dinner!

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Read the book children of time, large intellegent spiders talk about how creepy rats and mammals are and when they dissect a few dead humans this mistake them for giant rats since they are the only thing similar inside, since in this planet all the arthropods became intellegent while mammals almost all went extinct

[@ZesPak]

​@@NeostormXLMAX seconded on Children of Time and Children of Ruin, great books!

[@lilRadRidinHood]

​​@@NeostormXLMAXYour description has piqued my interest...I have an app to read aloud what is on my screen. Since my eyesight is inadequate I wonder how I could get involved in "reading" those books that are mentioned in this comment section. If anyone can suggest the ways to do it I'd be very grateful 😊

[@XoADREADNOUGHT]

The key isn't so much getting the oxygen into "deeper" parts of a larger body. The problem wasn't the distance to the center of the body, but the overall volume. Otherwise, you could have extremely large, flatter insects like centipedes. It is a natural physical and biological law that as you increase the surface area of, say, a sphere, that the volume increases exponentially in comparison to the surface area added. Insects aren't normally spheres, but the law holds true to some degree on any shape that an arthropod can take. At some point, there isn't enough surface area to have enough spiracles to let enough oxygen in for the rate of oxygen intake to supply enough oxygen to all the cells in that body's volume. And that is based on the percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere as well. Just wanted to get extremely specific about what the limitation was.

[@alganhar1]

Its called the Square Cubed Law, and it is surprisingly relevant to animals, and to an extent plants. Take a look at large terrestrial mammals and compare them with the really large terrestrial Dinosaurs and you will notice that the structure of the legs is basically the same (very 'pillar' like). This is a direct result of the Square Cubed Law. The Law is also the reason Arthropods literally cannot grow above a certain size threshold, that massive increase in mass requires more muscle to move it, and there is a point at which the animal reaches a size at which the muscles simply do not have the space in the exoskeleton to grow large enough to move the animal. With endoskeletons muscles can be larger in relation to the skeleton than they can with exoskeletons, but even with endoskeletons there is a mass limit beyond which an animal cannot grow. A Blue Whale is probably very close to that upper limit for a Marine Animal.....

[@GelloWello]

@@alganhar1 also this isn’t factoring in the limitations of circulatory systems. For example tall humans face many challenges to their health. It is well known that above 5 feet your height increases your odds of blood clots

[@jamesknapp64]

@@alganhar1 thank you. Its not exponential relation ship with Area to Volume. Its Area cubed is proportional to Volume Squared, which is where the Squared Cubed law gets its name. Thus if something is 2.56 times the area then its volume is about 4.096 times as much. If Area is quadrupled then Volume increases about 8 fold. If Area increased by 9 times Volume is about 27 times as much. And if Area went up 25 times then its volume is about 125 times as much. If it was Exponential (I'll use base 2) if something doubles then the result is quadrupled. In exponential if the first term is quadrupled the result is 16 times as much. If you take the input multiples by 9 then its 512 times as big a result. And if you take 25 times the input that is 33554432 times the result. While what Ron said is important, Surface Area and Volume are not linear. Its also important to give the correct relationship. Too often I see "they're expontional" when its a fixed power relationship like here its the Squared Cubed law.

[@jtkto]

Thanks for the interesting conversation guys. So much information out in the world, its nice to read intellegent people discussing complex (to me, a finance specialist) concepts.

[@Notthatkindofdr]

@@jamesknapp64 I would also like to add that it is a mathematical relationship based on geometry, not a "physical or biological law" as Ron Ronson said.

[@thewiseoldherper7047]

Based on the relationship of most modern scorpions, you could interpret Pulmonoscorpius’ relatively small claws to mean it relied on a more toxic venom.

[@jamesknapp64]

That's an interesting hypothesis.

[@jtkto]

My thoughts too

[@egoaltar5999]

Smaller claws may also suggest scavenging.

[@jwr3289]

Or a less immune prey species

[@nazirkazi2588]

Yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind. Scavenging is a good explanation as well.. and we forget the most fearsome weaponry is often directed at our kind; mating or food resource.

[@alexanderacosta48]

The treelike ferns mentioned in this video can still be found in New Zealand and Australia, but they are unrelated to the Carboniferous tree ferns and are believed to have convergently evolved from regular ferns during the Cretaceous.

[@dondragmer2412]

Thank you. I was going to point that out but you already did.

[@ninomcterenceyaco7344]

Philippines has those tree ferns too.

[@GerardWay4President]

Moth Light Media is giving PBS Eons a run for their money. I love it!

[@Lien6887]

In my opinion, this is much better than PBS eons, more on par with Trey the explainer, Ben Thomas and Henry the Paleoguy.

[@GerardWay4President]

Håvard L I like those channels too, but I think that Eons is better than those three.

[@Lien6887]

@@GerardWay4President yeah that's fair, different strokes for different folks haha

[@GerardWay4President]

Håvard L XD

[@semi-useful5178]

@@Lien6887 Eons is an "Authoritative source" trey has interesting takes but his voice can get annoying, and I have no Idea about the other guys you listed.

[@DeezUp4Da3zz]

What I would give to go back to the beginning of time and live through everything (without going crazy or dying/feeling pain) but mainly to be able to remember everything

[@ebinmenes1698]

i always wished that after we died, there was a complete archive of everything in the universe that had ever happened, that you could spend an eternity investigating . it would be a perfect afterlife

[@saika4298]

@@ebinmenes1698 “let’s see..where’s my crushes house.”

[@muhammadeisa1459]

@@ebinmenes1698 that would be better than paradise

[@thefran901]

@@ebinmenes1698 Neeeerd! But no, seriously, I would like something like that too.

[@nekoboy213]

I genuinely appreciate how calm his voice is through the video. I was watching a few while laying down and I got a great nap in, and then I went back to watch the videos cause they were still interesting.

[@Sohelanthropus]

Someone has sleep deprivation problems

[@ruinaderoma]

​@@Sohelanthropus Or, he just had a nap. People do that sometimes

[@Sohelanthropus]

@@ruinaderoma no they have sleep deprivation problems

[@guifdcanalli]

Arthropods: doing good Oxygen levels: *So anyway, i started to fall*

[@DavidRDavidRoss]

Pathetic attempt at humor.

[@donteventrip9625]

David Ross welp humor is subjective so you may not find it humorous but to me, it was hilarious.

[@ssnipermonkeygaming3022]

David Ross I agree, maybe decline instead of fall

[@3xoticG4m3r]

@@DavidRDavidRoss toxic attempt at a comment

[@daylightbright7675]

@@DavidRDavidRoss I mean I laughed, why do you have to be such an asshole? 😠

[@somekindofdude1130]

Let’s be thankful that arthropods don’t have lungs. I wouldn’t like living in a world where I can see every detail on a scorpions face without a stereoscope

[@abyssstrider2547]

If they had lungs you probably wouldn't exist. Most likely no mammals would.

[@Motofanable]

@@abyssstrider2547 First statement is correct, second not so much.

[@Top_Weeb]

@@Motofanable if a rock was moved 2 centimeters to the left we might not exist....

[@davidhoran7116]

“Scorpions, larger than cats” well that’s a time period I never want to visit

[@KalashVodka175]

What if you could carry a big gun? Maybe it would be a thrill seeking adventure. Hey sure they are scary and could kill you.. but they gotta reach you first!

[@Sohelanthropus]

Don worry you won't

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

Oh, I would. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Well okay, it's a bug and a feature.

[@averyjenson]

1:18 it happened even more than that too! Isopods, which are crustaceans, and decapods like say the coconut crab, as well as some other crustacean species, have evolved to live on land independently from one another. Many crustaceans are still tied to the water to reproduce as they can’t lay their eggs on land. Not yet at least lol!

[@annab.5724]

This is the first video I’ve seen of yours, but as soon as I saw all of the art properly credited I had to subscribe! As a bonus you’re very interesting and I love learning about this crazy world we live in. Thank you for these fascinating and highly educational videos; They have to be a great deal of work!

[@christopheb9221]

small claws also mean they hunt primarily with venom at least in modern scorpions

[@Edgar-_-]

A simple way to imagine this period of time is imagining what the world would look like if you were to shrink to the point that grass would look like trees

[@AkaiKA4K]

EL MeoN Bamboo is grass too.

[@gadielgonzalez2755]

@@AkaiKA4K it is?

[@geradosolusyon511]

@@gadielgonzalez2755 very hard grass, they have structure closer to grass than wood even though they're hard

[@midgetman4206]

@@geradosolusyon511 that's what happens when you _THICCEN_

[@ls200076]

@@gadielgonzalez2755 thicc grass ma dude

[@lubimenergetiky8131]

Pure conten, no clickbait, no commercials. Thank you, please stay awesome.

[@dsfs17987]

this would quite depressing to watch as a scorpion, considering all of their genetic development in last 450 million years or so...

[@jackvernian7779]

it. just. works.

[@AcolyteOfLucifer]

Good thing we're on the top of the foodchain

[@mpforeverunlimited]

Well they got smaller at least

[@dinonuggetzzz5357]

@@AcolyteOfLucifer i think we're out of the food chain

[@veryrare4443]

@@dinonuggetzzz5357 nah we’re def on top. no predators because we formed nature to our will

[@xanshen9011]

You are a very underrated channel. Remember me when you get to the top!

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Thank you

[@Gauntlet1212]

Good video. A small visualization of the time period, like a timeline, would have been a good addition.

[@bernardfinucane2061]

Great content. One suggestion: Please add new events to the timeline as the video progresses instead of just starting each timeline shot with an empty timeline.

[@edwhatshisname3562]

So basically vertebrates won out because they have lungs. Also where can I get one of them house cat sized scorpions as a pet?

[@spoolofflarn8760]

You still need? I know a guy

[@dondragmer2412]

He says insects have tracheae. They don't; they have tracheoles, which mammals don't have. We have bronchioles.

[@OK-on1ze]

They have tracheae as well, the branch into smaller tracheoles

[@gandalfgrey91]

I had the shivers throughout the entirety of this video

[@catchiho8261]

Girls with time travel: Omg I want to meet my great grandmother Boys with time travel: Time to go back in time to domesticate human sized millipedes

[@pepesylvia848]

Moe Syzlak: time to get some caveman hookers

[@mcdrippyyt562]

The small claws on the pulmonoscorpius could also indicate that its venom was very potent, like the modern desert scorpion; it’s subdues prey by stinging rather than a forest scorpion which uses its large claws and has less lethal venom.

[@caracwailya]

A correction: the famous canopy trees of the Carboniferous were not related to ferns. These 'scale trees' like Lepidodendron were lycophytes, a completely different branch of vascular plants than ferns and seed plants. Their closest relatives today are the diminutive club moss, spike moss, and quillworts.

[@dondragmer2412]

But some were tree ferns, which are not true ferns. They bore seeds whereas ferns reproduce by spores, including the modern tree-sized ones.

[@Sohelanthropus]

🤓

[@banana9494]

Thanks for everyone who takes time to add these type of correction comments. I'm surprised how many errors there were in a short video!

[@bodiddly12]

I love your videos. Evolutionary biology is a wonderful collection of 'just so' stories. It has always had such a great power to explain why animals are the way they are. I would take issue with one thing in the video though, and that is the carboniferous forest trees. Fern trees still exist today. I have some in my garden. Also during that time there were other sorts of plant occupying the tree niche, including giant clubmosses and giant horsetails.

[@jaisanatanrashtra7035]

All hail the gaint insects ❤️

[@mack7207]

I for one welcome our new ant overlords

[@TragoudistrosMPH]

Their time is done... long live the synapsids!

[@googleisretarded7618]

No.

[@jaisanatanrashtra7035]

@@googleisretarded7618 then be careful 😂

[@jaisanatanrashtra7035]

@@camel7624 ever heard about Ants 😂

[@FranKoPepez]

It feels like an Eons video! great job I liked it :) first video of yours that I watch

[@athingwhichexists]

0:08 I like how all the coastlines are simplified but the UK's which has every nook and cranny showed

[@alexandriac6641]

Amazing video! I always find it a little bit melancholy to look at pictures of extinct animals even though I know it's just the natural progression of life.

[@ZwamTekMusic]

i just wanted to say that this channel deserves so much more subs!!!

[@ingridhk4285]

9:55 I see that Ron’s dad has moved on from his interest in muggle artifacts!

[@SandyRiverBlue]

Your patron Ken Ham is a very cheeky fellow. Love the name choice.

[@i_am_fish6650]

Early life is always so interesting becaue of how different they are, the fact that decomposers hadnt carved out a niche yet causing plant matter to not rot is crazy and just goes to show how strange life organisms are.

[@Supportacct]

Stumbled onto this channel, have been loving the videos. Thanks!

[@stormyprawn]

Scorpions the size of cats? Thanks for giving me nightmares...

[@andycopeland7051]

Loved the video can't wait to explore your channel

[@Rapscallion2009]

I, for one, welcome our historic insect overlords... (In Kent Brockman voice)

[@nikolaimadlandshorter4825]

Great video. Just wanted to add that some insects do autoventilate their bodies in addition to diffusion. Notably locusts, which pump airsacs in the thorax via wingbeats and abdominal pumping in grasshoppers.

[@draekalloy3673]

Thank you for creating this video, it was very enjoyable and insightful

[@mothlightmedia1936]

You're welcome

[@kyle18934]

Awesome job with this video. You have a better channel than most big channels.

[@patrickparmer1648]

Makes me wonder if some caves were actually a giant arachnid’s nest at some point in time…

[@demonicloaf2100]

I've seen a video of a cave that is an arachnid (plural) nest, just not a GIANT arachnid's nest

[@punditgi]

Very nicely done, sir! Keep up the good work! 😊

[@ArmouryTerrain]

I can not remember the university involved, but I do remember a documentary where they created an ecosystem in a large sealed tank and increased the oxygen levels which resulted in modern insects becoming much larger - up to 30% over only a few generations.

[@rileyrussell9321]

Do you remember the name of the study or documentary? I'd love to check this out

[@siyacer]

Which isn't much, only half an inch of growth in reality, but interesting nonetheless.

[@frankheilingbrunner7852]

This is briefly mentioned in a PBS Eons episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6i0fX6Dirx0hMk

[@theskepticalskeptic]

That arthroplura would make a nice runner/shag style!

[@CSLucasEpic]

Prevailed is a matter of perspective. Insects are the most successful creatures to have evolved. They remained virtually the same for millions of years, they existed before the dinosaurs, before the synapsids and before all of human history. And when we die out, they will still be around. If survival is what makes a creature prevail, then nothing will ever beat the insects. Well, except for bacteria, sure.

[@pbase36]

I think you’re making the error of comparing insects to humans, rather than correctly comparing insects to mammals.

[@dondragmer2412]

I believe you mean virtually the same in their basic general form. They actually have changed a lot since their beginning, diversifying into such a myriad of forms and adapting to nearly every econiche that exists.

[@dondragmer2412]

@@pbase36 Insects may outlast even mammals.

[@davidschaftenaar6530]

You're a one-man-PBSEons, Moth Light Media. I hope your channel keeps on growing, you deserve it.

[@jacobkain4721]

Let's not rule out that the crow-sized dragonflies may have also preyed on small vertebrates, then! Great video

[@mho...]

holy.... on first glance i red "cow sized dragonfly" 🥺 thats terrifying, a helicopter sized aerial vertebrate hunter🙈

[@epilepticmouse7715]

Very well-produced videos! Thanks for linking sources! I absolutely love all of this content.

[@petersmythe6462]

The exoskeleton is likely a bigger problem than supposed inability of arthropods to breath at large sizes without high oxygen (again, dragonflies can breath in 5% O2).

[@MindinViolet]

What a fascinating and informative video. I think this has become my favourite channel on KZbin.

[@Simon_Jakle__almost_real_name]

The longest insect living today found so far is Phobaeticus chani, measuring 57centimetres across. The giant dragonfly Meganeuropsis permiana from the eaarly Perm period (less than 290mya) had wings measuring almost 75centimetres, being a relative to mentioned Meganeura Monyi, which got 73centimetres tall/long . Aegirocassis benmoulae was an almost two metres long Arthropode. A "sea scorpoin" with the name Jaekelopterus rhenaniae was two and a half metres long. Today there is a scorpion that can weave. The biggest trilobite of a length of more than 70centimetres was/is Isotelus rex

[@lucifiaofthefreecouncil1312]

I'll save you time it was the decline in atmospheric oxygen concentration. The bugs had passive respiratory systems meaning required high oxygen concentrations to support a large body. Love the video by the way I'll be checking out your others your very hip to the ancient jive :p

[@forbesmag1271]

That's not the whole story. Not only a decline in oxygen level but a thinner atmosphere overall, and both due to an expanding Earth, the mechanism of which is also related to increasing gravity. Thinner atmosphere/less oxygen/higher gravity is also what got the dinosaurs, not the asteroid fantasy.

[@maclarenschell8855]

@@forbesmag1271 expanding earth and higher gravity? Proof pls, this sounds like some weird conspiracy theory

[@2DarkHorizon]

@@maclarenschell8855 The living earth is in a breathe in cycle that why it was expanding we are now in a breathe out cycle so the earth will be shrinking. This makes the atmosphere more thicker explaining global warming. The increase and decrease in gravity is caused by the change in density of the earths core from the breathe in and breathe out cycle of the earth.

[@stormisuedonym4599]

@@2DarkHorizon Prove it.

[@AthosJosue]

1:10 So incects are more closely related to crustaceans than arachnids? Mind-blowing 🤯

[@SunniLeBoeuf]

Makes quarantine ever so slightly less boring!

[@aminyashed2317]

lungs don’t pull air. Diaphragms do, by changing the size of the lungs and creating negative pressure

[@Jayson_Tatum]

Basically like a piston

[@gibbogle]

That's a bit nit-picky (as a champion nit-picker myself.)

[@calebkiller97]

awesome, i can avoid ignorance in spite of a lacking formal education because of content like yours, thank you

[@tiyas5378]

Now that we've discovered a 9-foot-long arthropleura fossil (the largest ever found) that predates elevated oxygen levels.... The question of giant arthropods is even more complicated

[@Logan.Bernart]

At 6:10 you mention it is thought that the lack of evolution of bacteria which could break down tree bark led is what led to coal deposits in carboniferous rock layers. I was taught that these coal deposits were from a lack of evolution of fungi which could break down lignin in the xylem. If you have a citation on this bacteria hypothesis I would like to see it and learn more as it is new to me. Thank you for the video.

[@jimparsons6803]

Liked the bit about coal, and the geological "extinction" of coal. Plants (even those from that long ago time) have tannins in their structures. Tannins are phenolic types of chemicals. It was tannins that were somewhat resistant to destruction by bacteria and the like. (Some sorts of cotton --- the fibers and hence the fabric made from these fibers --- found in archaeological sites in parts of South America and were found to be used by those long ago native peoples as wound bandages.) So in a multistep way that's why we now nave coal --- I think that you can extract chemically tannins and other phenolic chemical compounds from coal. The change came when 'white fungus' came along that to well, eat, these tannins and all else is geological history.

[@gibbogle]

Lignin.

[@vinny184]

The first forests also appeared in the mid devonian with the cladoxylopsid Wattieza and the progymnosperm Archaeopteris. During the carboniferous ferns weren’t the dominant trees, but lycophytes (these are not ferns nor are they that closely related to ferns, this is a common misconception) like Lepidodendrales and Calamites (actually closely related to ferns) were. Tree ferns (not a specific group of ferns but like all trees just a morphological adaptation) appear during the start of the collapsing rainforests and only then slowly become more dominant together with early seed plants, because they were better adapted for the drier conditions.

[@46raulfull]

10:00 lol arthur wasley got so deep into human study he became a biologist

[@jochenklausberger9076]

Just another great video! Just found your channel and now I‘ve got plenty to binge.

[@Miller_Time]

The idea that there were giant scorpions in Scotland with giant eyes is terrifying

[@haydenamaro]

You channel is incredible. Watched a few videos, instant sub. Your videos are blowing my mind over and over again. Explaining millions and millions of history.

[@IICJZII]

Great video as always dude ✌🏻

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Thank you

[@aarthoor]

Thank you. As fascinating and beautiful to watch as ever.

[@stevecooper6578]

3:55 Scorpions larger then cats are badass and frightening

[@petermallia558]

It's the diaphragm that pulls the air in to the lungs by expanding them through pressure differentials when trigger by a build up of carbon dioxide in the blood, which in turn forces the diaphragm to release, moving up allowing the lungs to deflate therefore expelling the waste gases from the body, all working through a cardiovascular system controlled by both the brain and the heart to an extent as both organs regularly send messages to one another controlling our perception of time and space which seems to change as we evolve through the different stages of life as a human being. Went deep, but felt the need. I enjoy your videos very much, because I'm still learning at 48yrs of age and still loving it.

[@NeP516]

Good video as always. I have a suggestion for a video. What made these 'trees' go extinct? Also, how did vertebrades come to be? What were the intermediate states?

[@mothlightmedia1936]

They're good suggestions. I have an idea for a video that will include why most of ancient ferns went extinct

[@Qbliviens]

As far as I know those primitive trees, like giant ferns, horsetails and Lycophytes, didn't have the ability to pump water all the way up their trunk such as modern trees do, or at least they weren't really good at it and also didn't have any deep reaching roots, this is why they required a lot of water, like a swamplike environment, to thrive. When the climate got more arid they could not survive and got replaced by the newly evolved conifers, that were much better adapted to drier climates, eventually replacing them as the dominant terrestrial flora.

[@ch3rok33jo3]

Global flood.

[@NeP516]

@@ch3rok33jo3 Please elaborate

[@ch3rok33jo3]

@@NeP516 it's the great extinction event which we can clearly see represented in the sedimentary fossil table, this entire video is answered by the truth of the global flood We can see a similar event in China today on a limited scale

[@royriley6282]

Error at 6:20, it is fungi that primarily evolved to break down lignin, not bacteria as you state. Those fungal enzymes and more generally the heterokaryotic fungal cells which lead to enzymatic diversity has not yet evolved. This means that lignin, which is hard to break down due to its unpredictable and chaotic bond structure requiring numerous and varied enzymatic catalysts, persisted way longer in the environment than today where it is quickly broken down by heterokaryotic hyphal networks of fungi. You can see these networks yourself as white thread running through any woody compost.

[@alphacommander428]

Just found this channel... omg amazing content

[@jahmanoog461]

Well done--you fit in a lot of info addressing the topic. Life is spectacular!

[@shadowraith1]

Interesting. Thanks for some ancient history.👍🦂🦂🦂👍

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Thank you glad you enjoyed it

[@vinceb8041]

It is easy to think of these transitions as motions of animals, or sudden events like rainforests collapsing, etc. But if you could go back in time, you could probably live 10 lifetimes in an unchanging ecosystem of arthropods, with no apparent change at all. It boggles the mind how slowly these different ages came and went.

[@kevinpotts123]

That contributor in Patreon named "Ken Ham", that has to be a troll on the evolution denier of the same name.

[@jahagkagau6061]

I don't get the joke sorry explain?

[@MesserTAMU]

@@jahagkagau6061 Ken Ham is maybe the biggest spokesperson against evolution. He made the ark encounter, and has put a lot of time and money into proving a 6000 year old Earth.

[@MesserTAMU]

@@jahagkagau6061 so he probably didn't support this channel but some troll used his name to get a laugh.

[@ch3rok33jo3]

Lmao evolutionary theory was disproved years ago. Creationism theory is more viable in 2020, we have discovered the living microorganisms responsible for both water and oil production.

[@ch3rok33jo3]

@@MesserTAMU No, he is simply a scientist who was intelligent enough to know that Creationism is the more viable theory even before Evolitonary theory was disproved.

[@marcuswalters8093]

Thank you for this. It's always fascinating to learn just how different this planet we think of ours has been over the epochs.

[@jontowers6780]

The face on that giant dragonfly at 3:49 looks like Thomas the Train

[@henry-thepizzaeater-morgan704]

It does

[@Sara3346]

You may want to have your vision checked.

[@Shotgun_Only]

5:57 holy shit the man that drew this picture must be a mastermind

[@KermitFrogThe]

I already knew insect size is limited by oxygen levels so that part changing when oxygen dropped wasn't a surprise. I like the video and learning in general, so will challenge the conclusion by saying I don't feel we have prevailed over the giant insects. This is not intended to insult this excellent video, just to instigate conversation and debate in order to learn more. The giants will likely have become smaller over time as has been reproduced in labs by breading some in low oxygen environments, so I will say I think less of them went extinct than simply adapted by getting smaller, a bold and not fully provable claim, but reasonable with the limited evidence we have from that time and what we can do today. If we are to class ourselves as prevailing over something we must be superior to it in some way. There are invertebrates larger than many vertebrates proving size isn't a sure sign of superiority, in fact being too large means you are less adaptable to drastic change so can be a disadvantage. Diversity goes to the insects. 1 in 8 species we know about today is a form of beetle, so insects are dramatically more diverse than all the vertebrate species combined. Volume of insects is higher than that of vertebrates at biomass level, let alone population. So the challenge I present is simple. In what way have we actually prevailed over the giant insects, if all they had to do was reduce in size to accommodate the lower oxygen levels?

[@siyacer]

Many species of vertebrates rely exclusively on arthropods as a food source. Vertebrates don't need to reduce in size to sustain their bodies when oxygen levels are low. Vertebrates live longer and are generally smarter than arthropods. The only thing arthropods really have going for them is their numbers and special abilities like venom or acid spraying, which they had to evolve to survive. Plus, having an external skeleton you have to molt in order to grow leaves you vulnerable and far less flexible than vertebrates which have internal skeletons. However this is just evolution if we thought it had a goal. Real evolution only cares that life reproduces before it dies, so in that way an ant is just as evolved as you.

[@KermitFrogThe]

@@siyacer Intelligence isn't automatically the advantage human beings think it should be. Because of our intelligence our reproductive cycle is slower and ability to adapt to sudden change is impacted. Reptiles have to shed to grow, which is the same disadvantage as for invertebrates. Thank you for recognising evolution as adapting to now not the future, something too many get drastically wrong. Many vertebrates have had to evolve venom etc as offence and defence. Some of the longest living, i use the term loosely, animals are the simplest invertebrates because they can shut down during extreme conditions. Size wise there are many vertebrates smaller than larger invertebrates. Nice reply. I said I would debate and appreciate you challenging.

[@juno7424]

I remember having a dream as a kid of being in the backyard of my kindergarten class on recess and seeing a large dragonfly (3x larger than a crow) on the concrete floor in front of a door) also, I feel like I definitely prefer your channel to Eons, your voice is so beautiful and calming and the visuals are AMAZING, keep it up, you’ll get tons more subs for sure

[@moviefriend164]

At 6:50 it looks like the goat is narrating the video. Lol

[@domj3698]

Okay we're currently at 5:40, talking about centipedes, which I have a massive phobia of, however millipedes are angels we must protect. So thank you for not showing any modern centipedes, the big ancient ones don't creep me out because like you said they weren't really predators, and they are way to big to scuttle up your leg and bite you all over under your clothes

[@will_uxo]

Ken Ham as a Patreon, love it! 😁

[@MaxOakland]

What a fascinating story. Thanks for sharing it

[@god6384]

my question is how big could insects technically become given they have as much oxygen as they want? Is there a physical limit to which they could potentially evolve/grow with the right amount of oxygen?

[@thejurassicman661]

Great work! Your editing and narration are getting better each time!

[@mothlightmedia1936]

Thank you