Motorcycle reverse brake bleed

Description: This was a two-purpose video - 1) to show how to reverse bleed a simple motorcycle caliper, and 2) to show how to fix the non-working rear brake on 2004-2011 Aprilia Tuonos. It's a very common issue, and this is one way to permanently fix it. Just relocate the master cylinder for the rear brake onto the rearsets. This usually requires a new set of rearsets and possible a new master cylinder.
Also, please note that even after this procedure, I had to unmount the caliper, and re-bleed again with the caliper ABOVE the master cylinder. For whatever reason, this is an easy way to bleed these rear calipers as they can be stubborn, but it did work. This is not a common thing, just something specific to the Tuono. I've done this on about a dozen bikes so far and only the Tuono had this odd behavior.
Thanks for watching! Be sure to subscribe: kzbin.info_c...

[@g00gl3it]

UPDATE: I've put almost 1500 miles on the bike since this bleed (I wish it were more) and it's still very clean and has very good pressure. No issues with the reverse bleed, but as others have mentioned, please do this on a clean system. If you have stuck pistons, or have had lots of air in the system, you should probably be breaking everything down and doing a FULL clean before bleeding again.

[@danreavey2062]

Just seen this vid. Now realize why there’s two syringes in some kits (TBS kit). I’m doing the ABS II brakes on my BMW R1100RS and the ABS unit seem to be blocking the flow from front calipers to the master reservoir. Needs a reverse flush like this. Thanks 👍

[@IridiumVIII]

The actual reverse bleeding process begins at the 12:00 mark

[@g00gl3it]

Thanks. I blab a lot, and I know it.

[@frostygonz]

Awesome vid, clear and easy to follow. I was very interested in the brake master cylinder relocation. Very clever. Thanks!

[@callofgeorge]

good shit man. buying a 2009 RSV1000R and I'll eventually have to do this as well. thanks for the video.

[@Philscbx]

Just Noticed Camera Gear - Nicely Done. I have the older 1DsMkII & Pile of L from 300mmF2.8 on down. Perfect for Racing events. Which one vid of mine included of Nascar. Cheers

[@shafer147]

Great video very helpful Thank you!

[@maartos]

lovely video, any ideas how to move the OEM brake master cilinder? without buying a new expensive set

[@MrJonnyboyification]

I will try this reverse bleed method on my TL1000s rear brake. since i had to split the caliper to replace brake pads and seized pins ive been unable to get a good brake even tho i bought and fit a rebuild kit for the master cylinder thinking that was the problem.

[@amridz]

Hi Bro, awesome video, great job!!!! Thanks for recording the steps, now I can do on my RSV :D

[@g00gl3it]

No problem but just be aware, that rear caliper on the Tuono/RSV likes to be bled upside down and OFF the bike. It's a pain, but once you get it done the first time, reverse bleeds usually work ok.

[@robertlumsden942]

this was very good. appears there are some on this thread that do not understand physics.

[@kevinhancock4064]

Hi looks good I've bled my brakes normally AMD although took out put today brakes are stopping pretty good I'd be happier if the response was more immediate than half way at the lever (front brakes) I have branded lines so two separate lines from mc to each caliper feel like I maybe missed something I also cranked off at the mc few times to get Amy excess air out if any, I bled them again recently after a ride AMD they are pretty responsive but its either I'm being very fussy or I'm onto something thanks

[@frazerbond3413]

Thanks for this, had a split clutch hose and run the system dry, this is a far better way to get fluid back in a dry system

[@g00gl3it]

+frazer bond Thanks! Make sure you fully clean the system, otherwise as noted in the comments below, you may push particles back up into the master cylinder.

[@frazerbond3413]

g00gl3it I will, im going to flush the thing out and then do it, Its amazing how all logic departs ones brain when faced with a problem like this. I was instantly thinking of buying a vacuum pump. The whole concept of gravity and bubbles had completely left my brain!! Again thank you for pointing me in the right direction, you should take pride in knowing you video has saved a little bit of money for another motorcycle rider, thanks

[@g00gl3it]

frazer bond I appreciate the comment, thanks! That's exactly why I do these videos.

[@g00gl3it]

It did not come with the rearsets, it is a KTM 450 SX rear brake Brembo master cylinder, part #'s 54813060100 for KTM and Brembo Model # 10.8505.11, I believe. The rearsets are Robbie Moto rearsets, which I don't think they make anymore.

[@k0conutk0mando]

What rear master cylinder is that? Did you get it with those rearsets?

[@GARGOLASPERFORMANCECOATINGS]

Nice video !! Thanks for the info !! Is their a size of clear hose ?

[@g00gl3it]

I think it was 3/8th inch clear tubing. I had a few different sizes laying around the garage. I think you can get 1/4" to work, but it can be a really tight fit on the bleed nipple.

[@kaizenkowboy]

Thanks for the video - nice and clear. I had problems with the syringe method - I used just a syringe and tubing, and got rid of the air bubbles from the syringe and tube, but as soon as you attach it to the bleeding valve, you have an air bubble. Also - what do you do when you need to refill the syringe and repeat? do you not then add another bubble of air to the line?

[@g00gl3it]

kaizenkowboy I would close the valve, and pull the plunger out and then refill the syringe. Glad you got it figured out.

[@blondsuper1751]

Would reverse bleeding be suitable for cars with ABS? I have an old X5 that I can't get a firm pedal with normal top down pressure bleeding?

[@g00gl3it]

It might, but cars usually have more complex systems than a single or double caliper bike. I would check the service manual for your vehicle.

[@Hooverdarnit]

I have an Aprilia Scarabeo 500 scooter and the left brake handle that controls the left front caliper and rear caliper is mushy even AFTER I bleed the lines. Anybody know why?

[@g00gl3it]

If it's still mushy, you've either still got air in the lines or a bad seal on your piston (in the master cylinder). You could buy a rebuild kit to rebuild the master cylinder, or attempt to re-bleed the lines. I'm not familiar with the Scarabeo and the best bleed method for a dual caliper system, but it should be similar to most sport bike front-brake motorbikes that have a two caliper setup - there is usually a Y connection that splits the pressure between the two calipers, but that can usually make it more difficult to fully bleed the lines. Tapping the lines repeatedly, and/or removing the caliper and moving the lines can help free stuck air bubbles so you can get positive pressure in the lines. It doesn't take much air in the system to render it completely useless.

[@Hooverdarnit]

Persistence pays off. I bleed them again and FINALLY have a firm brake handle. I bled the front caliper from up to down but bled the rear caliper from down to up. I saw so many bubbles I thought I was watching a Laurence Welk episode.

[@jhstony]

Great video thanks very much, what size is your clear pipe please?

[@g00gl3it]

I believe it was 3/8th's.

[@lakkchina]

I am not sure if I would like this mod. Mainly because is too close to your foot and you can touch it. Instead I will fit a heat cover on the original position

[@g00gl3it]

It's not too close at all. I've ridden 8k miles with it this way without any issues.

[@farhadmistry1455]

Great Video ! what size syringes, hose and T connector ? where did you get them from ?

[@g00gl3it]

I actually got the syringes from a hospital visit (baby). The hose was from Home Depot in their plumbing department, and the T fitting from their irrigation aisle I believe. Very cheap stuff. You can also get syringes at any medical supply store or perhaps pharmacy.

[@Trompetracer]

Where did you got the altered breakmastercilinder from. I'm riding a RSV Mille R 2001 and also have the the same problem.NO BACK BRAKES . Could you give me the address (website) where you bought it?

[@g00gl3it]

I actually used a KTM rear master cyclinder from a dirt bike I believe. Can't recall the exact part #, but I think I mentioned it on the comments on the video.

[@imreszilvasi6576]

great video ! where did you get the frameslider on your frame ?

[@g00gl3it]

Those are T-Rex frame sliders, and they make both a forward and mid-engine slider (so I have two sets, or 4 total). I got them on Ebay.

[@imreszilvasi6576]

all right , thank you . I have the exact same bike as yours ,same color :) I just bought mine a week ago, also no rear brake on min :D but i have ordered an orther rear set also , so i will give it a go like you did , hope it will help. Otherwise its an awsome bike!!!! :)

[@moisesbravo6327]

Hey bro thanks thanks for the info that was cool I have a question my 2005 aprilia 1000 rear brake pedal is all the way down Bleed it and still no brakes what do you think could be?

[@g00gl3it]

That means you still have air in the lines, or an air leak somewhere. This is why the reverse bleed seems to be a much cleaner method.

[@rabbbie99]

You wouldn't happen to know if a GPZ900R hydraulic clutch has the ability to be reverse bled? The reason I am asking is mine does not allow fluid to go from the line back to the reservoir. if I push the slave cylinder back it won't move unless I undo the bleed screw or the master cylinder banjo to allow fluid to escape. It's like the master has a one way valve,

[@g00gl3it]

You might have a one-way bleed valve, which helps when doing a gravity-bleed. I would try doing a gravity-bleed first, if you already have fluid in your lines. Reverse bleed is really only best if you have major bubbles in the lines or are bleeding a dry system. If gravity feed doesn't work, replace your bleed valve with a standard two way valve (the one you have to turn to open) and do a reverse bleed either as I have done in the above video or with a vacuum assist like the Mity-Vac.

[@Wabatrobh]

Hi, can you please tell me the brand and ref those rear sets + the MC ? i'm on my 2nd master cylinder and still no brake...

[@g00gl3it]

KTM part # 54813060100 Brembo Model # 10.8505.11

[@Wabatrobh]

@@g00gl3it Thank you so much !

[@mikekurtz627]

why wouldn't you just close the bleeder when you refill the syringe to keep air from returning into the caliper? just asking

[@g00gl3it]

Probably could have but running the syringe alone took two hands. Might have been easier with two people. But it still worked great.

[@markfigueroa1681]

Thanks for the video. I have a 2010 Tuono 1000 R and I'm just now realizing I'm not going crazy the rear brake is a common issue. I love your rear-set too. What brand?

[@g00gl3it]

I believe they are Robbie Moto? I don't think they are made anymore, unfortunately.

[@markfigueroa1681]

+g00gl3it I've been looking at those (Danimoto?) I've been poking around the forums since watched your video. I found your post on the Forum. What Master brake cylinder do you have? That's the only part I'm missing.

[@richardb2468]

good video, the better way to do it and less messy is to do exactly as you have done but use the syringe on the bleed nipple to suck the fluid out while adding new fluid to the master cylinder, this negates the possibility of pressure popping the bleed pipes off and getting paint damaging brake fluid everywhere. its a much better option. great video though

[@g00gl3it]

I've tried this, but ended up pulling air in the lines around the bleed nipple threads. By forcing fluid IN, it leaks just a little bit but does not let air in. I tried it. It may work on other bikes, though. Just not this one.

[@richardb2468]

g00gl3it if you suck it out it and the threads let air in that’s fine as the air is only going in via the threads and straight into the syrenge, it never enters the brake lines. Air in the nipple is perfectly fine

[@mariogauthier1957]

reverse bleed is good for rear brake

[@killer2600]

What Einstein put the bleed screws at the bottom? Air rises, fluid falls so yeah lets put the air bleed screws at the bottom.

[@g00gl3it]

Well, yes, you're correct, air rises, that's why the bleeder screw on the caliper is on the top of the caliper, not the bottom. However, with no bleeder valve on the caliper you would always have to force it to the master cylinder, but this gives you the option to remove trapped air at the caliper itself.

[@killer2600]

g00gl3it A total miss...In the video the bleed screw is at the very bottom of the caliper with brake line at the top, it's ass backwards and makes bleeding air out of the caliper in a conventional manner virtually impossible. If it's fitted from the factory this way, I'm going to have to rethink aprilia as a worthwhile brand. I have no faith in whoever configured it this way.

[@g00gl3it]

Killer2600 I agree with you on THIS particular bike, apologies if my response was confusing, I was generalizing (as most bike mfg's do put them at the top). In my other video on the front lines, I think I mentioned how much of a pain it is to bleed the rear brake on this particular bike. The best way to bleed it is to actually remove the caliper and do exactly that, flip it so the bleed screw is on top, then bleed it. Maybe I should have done a separate video exclusive for this bike. I have had Honda's for a long time, and they always put them on correctly. Never had a problem bleeding the lines on a Honda.

[@Philscbx]

g00gl3it As Honda Tech for 40yrs - This is odd- bleeder on bottom. Can only assume factory's priority was the brake line length - or it's an off the shelf caliper they want depleted of excess stock. Or it's position was changed from rear to front of rotor to reduce unsprung weight mass. Even so - a second port at top for bleeder would simplify process. Or longer brake line put at bottom - and bleeder back at top. As for pressure back fed bleeding - I prefer the process as well after full flush. I use vacuum tank at 27" of vacuum for rapid evac/flush. 1-2 sec max. The fluid rips through to remove trash. Pressure wise - a simple sealed pressure canister - 1-2 pint sized - pre-filled with fluid - then 10-15 psi air on canister gauge - Using needle valve to creep fill caliper to master in one step. Nice Job Regardless. I'll let you know when I do the process with modified tanks - Cheeers

[@g00gl3it]

***** Yeah, leave it up to the Italian's to do things the wrong way! I'm sure it's part of the reason the rear caliper is so hard to bleed on these bikes. I've now purchased a Mity Vac (it was on sale) so it will be nice to compare this method to the Mity Vac.

[@s00p3rman]

IMHO, this is way less efficient than just bleeding it with a wrench, a short tube, and pumping the brakes. What are the actual benifits?The air does naturally go up, but sediment and impurities naturally settle at the lowest point. Shouldn't you flush the garbage out, rather than percolate it through the system? There's also some air pockets in that master cylinder that you can't get out without pumping it. I like the Theory but in practice it doest seam any quicker either. it only takes two minutes to bleed the regular way.

[@neilsharp8481]

Sorry but I have worked on brakes off and on for years and never had to back bleed and I was never told this when I went on courses at Honda

[@g00gl3it]

NEIL SHARP Shops don't usually do it this way because there is a good chance of doing it wrong, and like others have said, pushing grime back up into the master (as they are more than likely to take the lazy method and not clean them fully if they were bad in the first place - at least that's my experience with most shops). If you start with a dry system, give this a try, or even use a might vac. You'll be surprised how easy it is.

[@s4alexis]

Thanks for the vid. But you talk WAY too much for this to be easy to watch. Thanks for the person that showed the time mark for what is actual useful.

[@ashmanharith1236]

Wow rsv4

[@genreless1716]

has anyone ever told you that you sound like JAMES WOODS? LOL

[@g00gl3it]

patrick brogan Actually, I think a few people have, thanks for noticing, haha!

[@genreless1716]

Lol!!!

[@krqkan]

Lol, ATE Super R Blue got banned in the US..... cus its blue.... Nice video g00gl3it

[@g00gl3it]

Yeah, unfortunately, this was the last bottle I nabbed on Amazon before the ban went into effect. You can still get it, though, just have to be a bit more sneaky.

[@krqkan]

g00gl3it Sucks. Well, i live in Sweden. Don't think there are any laws on what color the brake fluid is supposed too be. :)

[@kctyphoon]

This was a cool demo, but I can't see any real benefit. Automotive brakes have been bleed from the top down for decades, across maybe 50' of total brake lines.. This is like a 12 inches IF THAT.. ... If you cut that same plastic tube down into a 2' piece, and ran it from that same rear bleeder fitting - you COULD run in directly into your old fluid collection jar. You just need to fill that jar with an inch or two of fluid first, and make sure the hose's end remains below the fluid level.. That way - there is no need to open and close the bleeder valve every time you pump the brake. Just open once - and continue to pump and fill the reservoir until you stop seeing bubbles come out of that hose.. With the discharge hose under the fluid level in the collection jar, it cannot suck air back into the system. That just seems a lot simpler.. I did like your demo though. It's probably better suited for the front brakes if anything..

[@jasonjon6228]

that is great if you want to push all the fine particles and junk in the brake lines and calipers through the small holes in your master cylinder most likely plugging them causing you to have to disassemble and clean them

[@g00gl3it]

Jason, in a well-maintained brake system, there should be no junk in the lines, it's fully sealed. But they do require cleaning once in a while, and I usually only reverse bleed after a track day (where the fluid is still fairly new) or after I clean the calipers. I have another video here showing that: How to Clean a Motorcycle Brake Caliper - Aprilia Tuono 1000 R

[@pumpkindiddler]

I had never heard of this "backwards" technique until just recently. Rather than pay 60, 70 or even 100 bucks for a pump, I'm going to try to make my own or use the technique shown here. I'm replacing the clutch line and both front brake lines of my '98 Super Hawk. I have zero qualms about "gunk" getting back up into my MCs. Thanks for the video, d00d!

[@g00gl3it]

pumpkindiddler Putting stainless steel braided lines (replacing OEM rubber) with clean calipers and fresh fluid and a good bleed makes a WORLD of difference. If you are replacing the lines, I suggest cleaning the calipers as well, perhaps even buying a rebuild kit for them (o-rings and piston seals, etc.), especially on that old of a bike. Good luck with the SH! I hear they are fun bikes!

[@killer2600]

pumpkindiddler It's the "gunk" that can ruin a good master cylinder, better to push the "gunk" out of the system than redistribute it from the caliper to the rest of the system.

[@neilsharp8481]

Killer2600 Agree

[@wademontague7358]

Well he chats shit until 8.18 if it was condensed into a minute of fact would be quite good

[@g00gl3it]

Some folks like the detailed explanation. I get more requests for more detail rather than less. If it's too chatty, you don't have to watch.

[@markhorton7013]

What a crap design from the Italians... putting the rear master cylinder right next to the exhaust. RIGHT WHERE THERE'S SHIT LOADS OF HEAT!! You don't want your brake fluid being exposed to extra heat on top of the heat that it's naturally exposed to... ie Hot Discs, Brake pads etc. which helps to raise the boiling point of the fluid where it's designed to work within those natural confines. Sort it Aprilia.. no wonder people experience problems with those rear brakes lol (Well done to you sir for comletely changing the overall rear brake setup for something far superior... you should apply to aprilia to help them with Research & Design lol)

[@g00gl3it]

Yes, it was. That's why moving the rear master cylinder and reservoir to the rearset is such a popular mod for this bike.

[@kevinramlogan3460]

your method is way to much work and I doesn't make sense because it's so much easier the original way.

[@g00gl3it]

+kevin Ramlogan Apparently, you've never tried to gravity bleed a dry system with air in the pistons.... Try that and then let me know how well that works for you.

[@nigelmitchell351]

The original way doesn't work reliably period. I have made this procedure too, but a bit of added detail, I put some PTFE tape around the bleed nipple threads to ensure no air ingression around them. I kept the master cylinder and reservoir vertical and I instead of syringes I used a squeezable bottle with a submerged outlet pipe. After pushing the caliper piston fully back I dismounted the caliper to ensure an absolutely vertical brake line. I have struggled to find a pipe which does not sweat to connect the reservoir to the master cylinder ? I believe much of this recurrent problem everyone seems to experience is caused as much by air as water absorption through permeable hose between reservoir and master cylinder.?

[@dannyandrews4133]

can't anybody just get to the point . don't need to hear life story

[@g00gl3it]

danny andrews You're free to go make your own video if you'd like. A lot of this information was model specific for this bike, which is why I included it.