Electric Motorcycle Zero DS - Long Term Owners Review

[@stephenbethell7548]

Paviin , nothing to do with electric bikes , but I’ve made it to Russia from Britain , you gave me the motivation . Thanks :-) Arrived yesterday

[@curtisbarker9272]

Why in the hell would any one want to go to russia? LoL

[@kenjsr1]

I saw a video where they spoke of a hybrid battery that would be part lithium ion and part super capacitors. The super caps would take some of the load away from the lithium batteries for accelerating and would more quickly regen charge. Sounds good but making it work is something else. It's good to know that there imaginative engineers out there working on an alternative to heavy, slow charging batteries. Good video guys. Thanks for sharing.

[@gasdive]

Hey Andy! Jason DS rider here. Delighted to see you and Pavlin collaborating!

[@Frag1ty]

you can adjust regen, so you don't need to only rely on the breaks. You can drive without almost needing to use the breaks.

[@Chr0nalis]

Capacity is measured in Kilowatt Hours, not Killowatts (which is the power). I know that you know, but saying it correctly will make a more intelligent audience.

[@jay6817]

You mean 'Make for a more intelligent audience'. Just saying. lol

[@RadoTrenciansky]

Fantastic interview Pavlin and Andy. Great to see electric motorcycle enthusiasm spreading. I have moved to electric car and if I can find electric version of Tenere then so be it. Range and abilities of electric bikes are increasing every day now. Same with electric cars, buses, ships and aeroplanes. See you in Brisbane Pavlin. Looking forward to it.

[@RGSABloke]

Pavlin, these videos are really great and so educational and informative. Kindest regards from Bonnie Scotland. Joe.

[@chestnut1969]

It’s only a matter of time before the battery technology is adequate for longer distances

[@motorcycleadventures]

Agree

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

It will be a long time. Unlike a car, you can't just keep adding more lithium cells to a bike battery because you are severely limited by space and weight.

[@weko6273]

I got my own small electric bike, a super soco ts as I'm just 16 years old here in Belgium and can't ride a large motorcycle ;) I love my bike, can beat any other 50cc bike and you get alot of looks and attention, for now ;) I though never have ridden another bike and have no idea how to shift n stuff, so I can't really compare it as to if it's more fun to ride or not, but well, I love it ;)

[@jbaldwin3092]

I believe the battery life depends on the quality of the batteries combined with the charge controller. There is a ride sharing company in USA using 8 Tesla (they are on KZbin), all have done round 300,000 miles, still going strong. Only had to change battery on one Car, that was caused by a defective charge controller causing battery to degrade a lot . Tesla were giving 8 year unlimited mileage on their batteries.

[@danielfalin]

how do you find these nice people everywhere you go :) that is a talent on it's own :) great informative video on electric bikes, thanks Pavlin!

[@paulav7961]

Most people (in the west and asia) are nice, they just don't advertise it :)

[@michaelpatrick6984]

If you set "brake regeneration" and "neutral regeneration" to 100% in the zero app it makes it incredibly easy to slow down without using your brake. Just set bike to custom and you can set speed and torque also.

[@motorcycleadventures]

Good to know

[@RicMyfraps]

In Australia at least, most young people are only used to automatic transmission in cars. Very few know what engine breaking is or regular maintenance. If these things get longer distances and the price comes down from ridiculous, they should have a future here.

[@motorcycleadventures]

True

[@dennisnl7125]

There is engine braking on a Zero, you can even set how much it slows down. There is a different setting even for applying the brake and going of the throttle in the newest Zero app. And funny side, you get a bit energy back because every electric motor also works as a generator, and your brakes don't get hot going downhill, just as an ICE engine braking.

[@ap06476]

Nice video. I am becoming increasingly curious about the electric motorcycles. Also, I dig your new look. The beard suits you Pavlin :-)

[@raycollington4310]

While this may be the future and offers clean urban air quality, with range anxiety, lack of charging facilities and while we wait for battery technology breakthrough, I would need to tow a trailer fitted with a diesel generator. It was good to see some of the negatives discussed. Thanks Pavlin!

[@tazzzxcsd]

Great video Pavlin. Thanks. I have yet to meet an unhappy Irishman in Australia, well done Andy, your camera skills are great in the fact that the viewer just doesn't notice them when the positioning is perfect, that is the other interesting thing I learnt from this video as well as the Zero, well done both of you.

[@seanwarren9307]

Andy, you nearly convinced me that my Dr650 needs a top box.

[@RadoTrenciansky]

Andy and Pavlin does Zero motorcycle not have regenerative braking of the electric motor like most cars do? That would allow accelerator only riding. On cars they call it one pedal driving. Thanks again for a great video

[@RadoTrenciansky]

@evmotorcycle that's great. Thanks Andy.

[@lacix22]

But jokes aside. This IS the future.

[@motosafetyonroad]

Hi, Pavlin! Very nice introduction of the video! Obviously you have much fun in Australia! Keep doing your trip and these interesting videos! Ride safe! PS: наскоро преименувах канала, стартирам нова инициатива...скоро. Най-добри пожелания! Иво Конов

[@andrewthacker114]

Does the headlight drain the battery faster. Also who builds it , is it part of the conventional motor cycle company.

[@RadoTrenciansky]

Zero Motorcycles is California based company. They sold few bikes here and then due to low volume sales packed up and went home, unfortunately.

[@jay6817]

What might help to 'control' the bike re brake usage/engine slow down, is programable regenerative braking, like many others after it's design.

[@lordagmar]

how has his bike held up after the years? i couldnt see his channel but ive been interested in a zero bike for a while

[@daveevans2261]

Thanks good information on electric bikes, I won't be buying one until I can get 300 miles before having to charge it up. But I think that won't be many years away. 👍

[@johnn17golf]

150 miles would be fine for me as that is all I do on regular commute, but would need to be able to charge another 150 in 20 minutes and have lots of charge stops on the way. That way I can ride 2 hours, take a 20 min break & ride on. Have that and I would pay a premium for electric.

[@RadoTrenciansky]

Dave you will be waiting a lot. Get one now to appreciate exciting aspect of electric motor.

[@daveevans2261]

Thinking about it 200 miles would be enough as most of my rides are about 150 miles round trip. Thanks for your reply.👍

[@jezthomas4402]

@@johnn17golf The new Energica EsseEsse9+ does 400km range and you can charge 200kms in 20 mins - BOOM!

[@doughopkins2934]

Good informative video, its suitability for decent length rides still seems the main problem if considering replacing a traditional bike with one.

[@gmy33]

Zero is not reliable in service ...if your bike has problems .. you will not be helped .. many zero riders go to energica including miself ... i did not have money for it .. but energica has better range and quicker charging and good service and better quality of parts .. their experia will change the field .. i have ridden multiple zero s and own a zero fx for 7 years ..

[@YA-ee9zf]

wow what an improvement in camera definition

[@pierre-francoispesenti1694]

I was a bit nervous seeing you parked I a hairpin( you didn’t notice the dings in the guard rail??)!! I liked Andy’s jokes and Pavlin taking it on the chin.👍😄

[@daveevans2261]

Don't you get any braking off the motor when you sit off the power ?

[@gasdive]

Yes. It's adjustable and you can have it set differently when you're on the brakes. I have 0% on a closed throttle so it coasts and 100% when I touch the brakes.

[@samehsouissi6986]

Now I know why the last video was filmed very well. His camera positioning is excellent. I'm afraid you have to upgrade to Hero 7, we are missing so much on the beauty of the adventure you are taking.

[@motorcycleadventures]

The static videos are recorded only with Hero 7. Great camera for everything except helmet.

[@samehsouissi6986]

@@motorcycleadventures come on Pavlin, u know I like it vid, but I'm afraid I'll disagree with you on Hero 7, u can easily mounted on the helmet n eliminate wind noise n have fantastic picture, I'm sure u hv seen some motorcycles vlogers do it. I get it's not ur style. The idea is to get the best possible quality out of camera, for example your last vid on top of the mountain, I know the view is fantastic but on vid it looks dark. I also get Hero or other action cam r expensive. I think at the end it's what u r comfortable using 👍

[@BillCairns]

Loving your co - presenters...you might be on to something there👍

[@earthwizard1]

great video for showing a electric bike, not quite ready for what i want yet but very informative thankyou.

[@DannyBBom]

So many long term ownership questions that are unanswered. You’ve owned the bike for 45k kms, over 3 years. In that time how has the battery charge degraded? Laptops and mobile phone batteries all degrade over time at varying rates so it would be interesting to know how this degrades. Another thing is how does ambient temperature affect charging and range. Batteries are a lot weaker in the cold, so what does that do? Other questions about ownership include maintenance. You say it’s problem free. Is it really problem free or is it “fanboy” problem free? What are the routine maintenance duties?

[@rob21]

The battery is much better than a laptop battery. Obviously you have to have be the correct person for this bike. I am not a gearhead and don't enjoy changing oil, filters, valves, etc. I would have to pay my dealer to do that. Not with a Zero.

[@DannyBBom]

@@rob21 This is the kind of talk that absolutely friggin terrifies me about e-bike owners. They talk about no maintenance, and avoiding dealers. Do you know that Zero motorcycles have a 4k miles (6k km) service interval? If you're not a "gearhead" you're gonna be doing that service a lot more regulalrly yourself. Normal motorcycles have a much longer service interval. Service intervals for other bikes: BMW, 6k miles. And that is low. Suzuki are at 7.5k miles, Honda 8k miles, and KTM 9k miles. Some Triumps like the Tiger Explorer 1200 have a 10k miles service interval.

[@gasdive]

@@DannyBBom yes, but the service is what you'd do on a bicycle. Check the belt, check the brake pads, flush the brake fluid, wiggle the bearings, check the tyre pressure and you're done. There's no vibration so bolts don't undo themselves. Nothing gets hot. There are no fluids or filters to change apart from brake fluid which is only a few minutes to change.

[@rob21]

@@DannyBBom Nothing I said was incorrect. There is no oil (except brake oil), filters or valves. I didn't say anything about avoiding all service.

[@dennisnl7125]

60000km, tires and brakes, that's it. Oh, and check the belt and brake fluid

[@stevedavies3322]

Great video. Some aspects of my work is in renewable energy and we just have to be patient in the development of the technology which obviously takes time. The main goal is to reduce global emissions and increase efficiency, this will improve with the battery and charging technology. City pollution at present is a major problem so using electric bikes to commute can be a great way of reducing that. Planting more trees wouldn`t be a bad idea either would it!?

[@motorcycleadventures]

Partly agree

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

Partly disagree.

[@stevedavies3322]

Lol....

[@joelsloper530]

Still running how many km now???

[@joejenkins2519]

Where did you get the seat ?

[@augustosaviatto1673]

Excelent video. Thank you both for sharing it.

[@urimtb]

Thank you guys!

[@open_water2411]

Brilliant! If there’s a portable solar charger option in future adventure distances look possible.

[@sednabold859]

Portable solar is just never going to be a reality with these bikes, you'd have to carry a huge mass of panels and wait ages to charge and hope for sunny weather, reducing your range more than if you just went without.

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

Two square metres of solar panels (that's huge - where are you going to pack them?) might get you 300 watts if you're lucky with the weather. So a mere 30 hours of continuous sunshine - three to five days' worth - would recharge your Zero and give you another one hour of riding time.

[@wv4life375]

Unless its cloudy

[@silver218]

What kind of windscreen you have on your Zero bike ?

[@georgibakalov9922]

At the moment I believe electric scooter is the only sensible electric bike - still it will be used for commuting , but it has more built in cargo space and is just more practical. Prices are going down and range is improving constantly, even Vespa and Kymco have started producing e-scooters. Running costs cover easily a price difference of 50-60% up than the equivalent petrol scooter. However, I wouldn't ride an e-scooter for one reason only - safety. Bikers are often invisible to car drivers, I don't want to be silent too.

[@themotomotion]

Great info, nice video, thanks for sharing, cheers and ride safe!

[@pnblondon1087]

I think you should have mentioned that your bike is already 4 years old Andy, and that since 2018 the standard battery pack is up to 14.4kWh, with another 3kWhrs available in the optional Power Tank. Also, ABS is standard but traction control is noticeable by its absence, especially when lack of it puts you on your arse! Also the battery pack should outlast the rest of the bike...

[@dennisnl7125]

SR/F is another step forward with all the electronics average (bad?) drivers need to feel save.

[@pnblondon1087]

@@dennisnl7125 The Zero SR/F is indeed a step forward Dennis, complete with the essential traction control which all the other Zeroes should have had since ABS was first fitted back in 2015. I've seen and heard about many very experienced and *good* riders crash Zeroes due to lack of it!

[@peterpiroso7024]

Hi Pavlov, Did you by any chance go through Griffith NSW?

[@peterpiroso7024]

I was parked in my car and recognised your bike and jacket. I was expecting a customer to meet up with otherwise I would have hailed you down. That is so coincidental, my Gosh!!

[@ladypilliwick8179]

Waiting for the sidecar with extra batteries in it. URAL is close

[@Crazylalalalala]

does this thing have regenerative charging with the real brake?

[@Crazylalalalala]

@evmotorcycle Seems like an excellent choice or a short commuter bike. If I didnt work 50 miles away that would be a real option. I think it even looks pretty good.

[@teneretraveller8980]

Might be the future.. but not yet for me. Currently enjoying a hot Berlin on my Tenere before heading further East. Great city. Shame we couldn't meet for beer. Happy travels

[@dennisnl7125]

On an EV you will not be heated by the engine (at every traffic light you must think about an EV being cool)

[@teneretraveller8980]

@@dennisnl7125 fair comment. Still not enough to change yet though.

[@dennisnl7125]

True, for the time being. Take a 2nd hand EV bike also. I did, you can switch. But eventually I sold my ICE because it was not used anymore...

[@graemesydney38]

Funny/strange - I just watched EVmotorcycle vid about the Putty rd yesterday. I believe in the future of electric bikes but I've been somewhat surprised in their slow development AND their prices.

[@graemesydney38]

@evmotorcycle I was complete aghast when during the last elections a Conservative party member was stirring up opposition to EV's with the 'they're going to take away your Utes" bullshit. It was even more depressing to see that the bullshit 'gained traction', that is , was believed. I would have thought that farmers would have been the first to embrace the technology. Can you imagine a farm 50klms from the nearest town with ev ag bikes, ev quads, ev tractors, harvesters ect ect AND on farm production of electricity with solar and wind etc. battery storage etc. With our farms remoteness and isolation, and with more sunlight than we know what to do with, Australia should be the most motivated to embrace ev's. And then there the opportunity to be the first into the technology, to product the software and hardware, and sell the kit and karbodle to the world. A Smart nation being lead by idiots.

[@boomerhgt]

Great video guys enjoyed

[@motorcycleadventures]

Thanks!

[@fredrodderts7817]

Luv it Pavlin❤️

[@pauloconnor7951]

Please what's the other dudes chanel/ site ? Thankyou. :)

[@motorcycleadventures]

Link in the description

[@petrihietanen1102]

This is without any doubt the future. Like any new technology in it's infancy, it is not perfect yet (battery capacity/cell density, charging times etc.) But these problems are already solved with cars, just look where Tesla is right now with charging times and driving distance with single charge. Tesla has also announced that it will bring new type of battery in 2020 with million mile (1 600 000 km) life.

[@motorcycleadventures]

Yes, like or not, this will be the future.

[@yorkchris10]

You look like you're dressed for Ozzy winter. Heated grips?

[@motorcycleadventures]

Yes

[@kevinnashskitchen3517]

Real informative. Nice guy. Thanks!

[@motoryzen]

Beginning response.." No...but I was expecting or at least HOPING to see better than 30 fps. It's mid 2019, gopro hero silver 4 cams have BEEN cheap enough..come one guys.

[@tombeckett4340]

You guys forgot the cost of these Zero bikes . I think that’s an important issue. I’ve heard that cold weather can effect your time on the road also? Good video guys. Thanks 🇨🇦

[@Crazylalalalala]

They are comparable to 650 bikes. (a bit higher but of that range)

[@dennisnl7125]

Yes, the bikes are a lot of money, 70% is battery sadly. So we need cut costs on batteries to make EV's really competative. Ambient temperatures performing normal is like 10°C - 35°C. Going under or over wil mean like 0.5% less efficient per °C.

[@danielfalin]

i like the bike, the sad thing is the range will not improve much without major breakthrough in battery technology. the current technologies are at their limit already, and not very suitable at all for long distance transportation devices

[@dennisnl7125]

That's why they are moving to faster, faster, faster charging now. If there are as many charging as fuel stations most problems are solved.

[@MartinLV.]

i bet you can put 5kw worth of batteries in your side boxes split weight to make your trips more relaxing...

[@drbarrymanor6308]

From the smell of burning brakes and comments about heavy brake use to slow the bike, it appears the riders in this video are not aware of an electric vehicle's capacity for regenerative braking. Correctly set up and used, regenerative braking should massively reduce the need for traditional pad-on-disk braking. Instead of simply burning off the bike's kinetic energy as heat from the brake rotors and pads, regenerative braking recovers the kinetic energy and converts it back into electrical energy, which is fed back into the bike's traction battery. So, riding down a long hill should not be a brake-burning experience, but an opportunity to boost the bike's range by storing all that energy in the battery! With the Zero, the regenerative braking settings are controlled from the phone app. Happy days!

[@marty906]

Wish I could rent one like renting a car.

[@hernanmolinaacuna6084]

¡Good intro for this video! Useful information. Regards

[@dalaipanda4688]

So how much does it cost compared to other adventure bikes?

[@motorcycleadventures]

It is still expensive

[@enduroforever4878]

Nice electric bike!

[@Molmen07]

Sounds like Zero should add an electric brake. A brake like the one electric vehicle have on the motor. So it can charge some in downhills. But since its a motorbike it should be able to turn on and off

[@motorcycleadventures]

It has

[@Molmen07]

@@motorcycleadventures thats it. Im getting one!

[@Boleh888]

New machine for the new generation suit for latest lifestyle.

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

Sounds like a Chinese ad for a dildo.

[@bankulin5965]

That electric motor should have energy recuperation, and should break immediately after letting down the accelerator, isn't that right? What are you talking about Pav?

[@motorcycleadventures]

Try one and you will understand what I mean.

[@bankulin5965]

@@motorcycleadventures thanks, I'm just looking to find one to try. I think we can't compare gearbox with 6 gears and gearbox with 1 gear. Petrol engine and gearbox with 1 gear make no sense. I wonder how electric motor and gearbox with 6 gears would look like?

[@gasdive]

@@bankulin5965 electrics don't need gearboxes. They're of no use. It would be like adding a firebox and boiler to a petrol bike.

[@stevoone342]

Interesting but the tech is no where near where I need it for my touring also two up, also I was amazed ridding one but I did miss the rumble of the engine and manly the eays of just putting fuel in and paying within 5 mins witch can make a massive difference on big distance days when touring. Also I know you can fast charge 30min but fast charging still is 30min and mainly is not good for the life of the battery. And when touring I like to use bike features like satnav heated seat and bars and when camping charge my tech, and I feel I wouldn’t be able to reliably do that with the elec bikes on the market. But we will see what comes.

[@dennisnl7125]

We are talking about 13kW batteries, you really think lights, heated grips wear out a battery....🤣 Driving is a usage between 7-30kW/h...use any electrics you wan't on an EV, it's no car battery in there.....

[@terencegraham8414]

Really interesting stuff Bra. Thanks Bra

[@ajiezul5116]

Soon you can powered the zero bike with solar charge machine for long way touring... cheers

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

No.

[@dennisnl7125]

Didn't see a small (or any) solar panel yet wich can do 13kW/h.....

[@yogiyoda]

I like that they wear proper riding gear. The idiots here in Florida ride in shorts, tank tops, and baseball caps.

[@caspianprince]

45,000km on the *one rear*... !!!! You jest surely? I can barely get 5000 out of mine (granted it's a 690 Duke, but still...)

[@caspianprince]

@evmotorcycle surely you must ride like a nun with 12 points on her license in fear of her mortal soul!

[@gerardomusano6919]

This video is an advance for the future because in 5 years you will see the difference

[@michaelwalsh90]

You'll always find an Irishman. Haha.

[@lacix22]

Immagine knocking on strangers door and asking for a charge. Then you hang around for 3-4 hours on the strangers porch

[@MartinLV.]

László Labancz how many times you knock the door for petrol? probably same amount of time expect to ask other type of fuel...

[@mortenviking3196]

Now water, wind and shitt can power the cars! What a down for arabia

[@RollModel724]

I would love the Zero if you could recharge as fast as you can refuel.

[@motorcycleadventures]

This is still a problem.

[@gmy33]

80km on a tank is ridiculous .. the new experia does 250km on a tank and more if you go slower ..

[@motorcycleadventures]

it is what it is!

[@gmy33]

@@motorcycleadventures i ve seen a vecrrix with 16kw h batt dkind double that range . And it cost half .. zero is simply incompetent .. and tbis qill be more clear in future

[@motoryzen]

20 seconds in....good god that windshield is straight up vertical. There is almost no way that is NOT a damn windsock. That defeats the entire point of having reasonable aerodynamics.

[@dennisnl7125]

A windshield is for comfort of the driver, not to make more efficient. Depending on your length the angle is different.

[@lordGalthran]

Well treated for 3years old vehicle looks

[@gasdive]

Without a hot motor dirt doesn't bake on. So a squirt with the hose and they look new again.

[@MagicRoosterBluesBand]

No thanks. Very expensive and can't go anywhere outside the city limits. BTW the battery costs half the price of the bike.

[@gasdive]

You literally just watched a video of one riding outside the city limits. I know it's hard to change your mind about something after you've made it up, but come on. That's not the city behind them.

[@TheRobert1970]

I think I'll stick to gas motorcycle it takes me 4min to fill-up.

[@fistfullofthrottle]

my friend, please get off the road, stopping on a corner like that is very dangerous. keep safe

[@rumo201]

Ok, why not? But not for me......

[@maxcastro70]

Iceland is an island wtf how did a guy ride there from Germany!??🤣

[@motorcycleadventures]

I fly

[@paulav7961]

45,000km on a 3yr old bike? That's not many km's per year :( The range on this bike is very poor, especially in Australia.

[@paulav7961]

@@wanderer397 - I like to do 30,000+ per year on my bike, mostly recreationally, but also with commuting. Granted it's a petrol engine though. I've ridden a bike that had over 100,000 on it and it worked fine. Bike engines are so good now that 45,000km is nothing really. I'd go nanas if I had to recharge/refuel every 80km! :(

[@paulav7961]

@evmotorcycle - I fully agree that e-bikes are an excellent idea, and I definitely support their development and use. However, they don't YET meet my transport needs. The bike you're riding is now an older model. I watched a video of a new naked e-bike, and they got 100mi out of it (just), even while riding assertively. So battery technology has improved greatly since you bought your DS. I'm definitely keeping an eye on the performance improvements of these bikes.

[@gasdive]

@@paulav7961 even the current version of this bike is available with 18 kWh. As Andy said, an extra 3 kWh and it would be perfect. That's an extra 6.6 kWh. I agree with Andy. I have the same bike (in white). 18 kWh and I wouldn't want another bike.

[@kaydars]

@@gasdive - because of budget restraints, and range restrictions on the e-bikes, I'm going to delay investing in one, even though I see their value.

[@Marco-cl9pb]

Sry but I can't watch his channel or I would get a top case to my MT07 soon and it would look ugly :p

[@JohnDoe-uc7et]

Funny accent.

[@wildone2163]

sorry, no clutch no deal.

[@wv4life375]

No engine braking or clutch slipping. Stay off the technical stuff.

[@curtisbarker9272]

Ride this thing with a Gauss meter to test what magnetic radiation the rider is exposed to

[@MartinLV.]

Curtis Barker if ya put up your piramid shaped foil hat the air you breathe becomes more healthy!!!

[@curtisbarker9272]

@@MartinLV. my concerns are based on facts magnetic radiation is not a conspiracy theory LoL

[@MartinLV.]

Curtis Barker ice powered bikes have higher voltage ignition system plus emit many tonns of co2 combined with other toxic chemicals in their lifespan wifi, bluetooth and phone radiation emit toxic magnetic wawes too there are thousands of atomic electricity producing plants on planet, all emit toxic steam and loads of unmanaged waste ev bike is least worry by my concerns

[@dennisnl7125]

Hahahaha, yes, our hair is allways static and when we come near a lightbulb it lights up, real scary stuff EV's.... 🤣🤯😏

[@BillyTheKidder]

Yea. But it’s not a Harley... ...electric bike! Haha

[@lacix22]

The best advice for people who want to buy it is DONT BUY IT LOL

[@dennisnl7125]

So funny! 60000km on mine, commute 160km a day, I'm fine.

[@user-jj5dw3rd1t]

Useless for normal riding.

[@sednabold859]

Define normal most people I know just commute with their bike they don't ride far or for recreation.

[@gasdive]

Seda is right, what's "normal". Mine is perfect for daily commuting and I've done several 800 km days. Seems like enough for "normal".