Moving coal in N scale - operating flood loader and rotary dumper

Fully operational unit train on an N scale layout. The dumper is inspired by a Detroit Edison installation in Monroe MI that moves and dumps 100-car unit trains.
A newer video that include cab ride POVs is here: • Modern coal hauling on...

[@WisenheimerYZTV]

How does this video have only 219 views? One of the coolest n scale coal train vids on youtube. Both loading and unloading are amazing. Brilliant work.

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Thanks, I'm honored.

[@TonVerkleijT3]

Cool music as well.

[@TheSuperStarCarWash]

@@kevinguthrie5495 the engineering is magnificent. how much would you charge to build me the tower & dumber. I'm thinking $800 bucks is fair. how many hours of build time? and cost of materials? awesome cool video!!! from buffalo

[@darylovaltine]

Yeah I guess it’s a real mystery why this model train video has so few views....

[@TheCloakedTiger]

That is AMAZING! All working coal loader and unloader, and in N scale! :)

[@markparcheta1269]

Phenomenal job on both ends of the coal hauling process! Brilliantly done in N scale. Amazing.

[@bfurailroad1104]

There are flood loadin' videos and there are dumper videos, I've seen 'em both. But I have never seen both operating in the same video. I'm not into haulin' coal but you sir, have built one hell of a masterpiece! As a N scaler myself I can imagine how many hours it took you to adjust and fine tune everything but it probably took you 1,000 more hours than what I can imagine. This video should be featured on Mo Rocca's the henry ford's innovation nation Tv show.

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Wow, thanks so much! I'm going to have to record a few more videos. The loader is the first that I built, but that dumper has several previous incarnations, each ending with "back to the old drawing board".

[@bfurailroad1104]

@@kevinguthrie5495 I subscribed so I'll be waiting to see the bell ring notifying me of new videos.

[@sandysmithvideos228]

Being an N scale guy for over 50 years, those are both fabulous works of craftsmanship and technology. Wonderful achievement.

[@alfrednawrocki8061]

You must have an engineering degree!!! Great set up sir !!!!

[@deandeis5951]

Can someone explain to me why when the car is being flipped upside down, it doesn't drag the other car with it or breaks the coupler?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

The dumper's axis of rotation runs thru the center of the cars' couplers. On real railroads, one end of each car has what is called a rotary coupler, which allows the coupler to rotate on it's axis. The end of the car with the rotary coupler will be painted a bright color so that the cars will be coupled correctly. There are even cars with two couplers for attaching to the locomotive. Here is what happens when they get it wrong: princerupertrailimages.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-they-mark-cars-with-rotary-couplers.html Modeling rotary couplers was not easy. The train has surgically modified couplers, couplers made using orthodontic rubber bands, and couplers made with fishing swivels.

[@seanpacificrailroad3700]

Wow oh my God I can’t believe you’re really filling the cars up this is the coolest absolutely amazing thank you for sharing I am blown away👍👍👍👍👍

[@seanpacificrailroad3700]

And dumping the cars 😀😀😀😀

[@handlaidtracksand3dprinted922]

WOW! What a masterpiece of engineering! Seeing this shows another example of what CAN happen - with effort, skill and some free time...

[@cammacgregor9354]

Great video...but the music belongs elsewhere

[@kenriches7403]

Custom couplers in n scale , great job . Thx for the vid .

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Thanks 👍

[@DeathByFishing]

That's fantastic. Talk about details. Great job!

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Glad you liked it!

[@sthpac69]

Beautiful.

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Thank you!

[@darylovaltine]

Do you really think you need an extraction system for the “coal dust”?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Yes. When I used real N scale coal (probably anthracite) I could see the dust come up and soon I could taste it in the back of my mouth. It was alarming, google black lung. I set up a filter system based on 12 x 12 HEPA furnace filters, a plastic tote, a $4 desk fan from Walmart, and foam board or PVC pipe ducting. The filter gets a visible black area below the duct. I have one at the dumpers and one at the mines. I have quite a few bags of the stuff. I've since switched from coal to WS ballast, which is made of walnut shells. Also tried black "art sand" but got scared when a magnet pulled iron filings from it - not good for loco motors. Art sand also weighed a lot more, required doubling heading the train. Another possibility is sand blasting medium but I didn't try it.

[@CSXRobert]

Good job!

[@brunocs7315]

Parabéns, incrível layout!! Excelente som de jazz!!

[@4gauge10]

That's so neat!.🙃👍

[@epiccsx]

Sweet!

[@brettallenthomas]

wow.. wasnt expecting that... not sure if i'm inspired.. or feel completely out of my league..

[@randysrockandrollrailroad8207]

That's Cool!

[@Lutain1337]

Ok that was the coolest thing i've ever seen.

[@N-Scale]

Looks and seems to work great !!!

[@TrainDetailsbyGuss]

Great animation, that brings it to life. Excellent.

[@newjerseyray]

very impressive. awesome fabrication skills.

[@holoonyx8121]

How did you do this?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

See replies below on the rotary couplers, flood loader and dumper.

[@jbdbackfan]

What kind of track are you using?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Track is Micro Engineering code 55. Turnouts are Peco Electrofrog code 55.

[@liamcooper5202]

That is real nice. I'm going to be building the same setup but with a 5 car dump. What sensors and programming did you use?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

The rotary dumper operates on DC motors, SPDT switches, and diodes with a +, common, and - power supply. The only "sensors" are the switches similar to these: www.tti.com/content/ttiinc/en/apps/part-detail.html?partsNumber=SS-5GL2 The logic is in the wire paths and the diodes. The diodes function as valves that allow current to flow in one direction and block it in the other. If you think about how you would operate this manually, the user would need one double throw center-off switch to control dumper direction and another to control ram direction. But you can't count on the user to stop either one at exactly the right time, and any overtravel can wreck things badly. So you have to add limit switches. A basic limit switch is wired to the Common and Normally Closed SPDT contacts so the circuit is broken and the motor stops when the switch is pressed. Of course if you wire it that way it would also stop the motor from turning in the reverse direction, so you pair each SPDT with a diode that always allows that whether the switch is pressed or not. Another thing you would have to worry about is if the user starts the dumper while a hopper is half in and half out. Good way to break a hopper. So you can use the Normally Open contact plus a diode on the ram's forward direction limit switch so that the dumper can only be raised if the switch is pressed. Once you put all these limit switches in place you can get rid of the user's center off, and you can almost get rid of the direction switches. An SPDT, pressed by raising the pusher arm, controls direction of both the dumper and the ram motors. When the arm is down the switch is released, allowing the dumper to go up and the ram to go forward. When the dumper goes up it raises the arm which presses the switch so that the motors can reverse direction. To control motor direction you wire one motor lead to the power supply's common, the other to the Common SPDT contact. The + and - are wired to the Normally Open and Normally Closed contacts. A pin in the dumper mechanically raises the arm. Another SPDT keeps the dumper from returning until the arm has retracted some, otherwise it would drop and reverse direction again before the ram has moved very far. A diode bypasses it when the arm is moving in the forward direction. There are limit switches to stop the dumper from going too far in either direction. Turns out no limit switch is needed at the end of the ram's return stroke - the arm falls and that reverses the ram's direction.

[@liamcooper5202]

@@kevinguthrie5495 ah thats very interesting. Good old logic wires. Thankyou for your reply and brake down on the logic and operation.

[@charleswoods9938]

That's a great part of that N scale layout I really like that coal loader. And I like that CSX coal train that you ran what is that Locomotive I know it's a GE built locomotive the only way I can maybe know what it is the road number of that locomotive you see I have a complete CSX Roster Book and it's a good one it's in the early 2000s that CSX loco is in the colors of CYN 2 Colors of the early 1990s

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Thx. CSX 9024 is Kato's model of a GE C44-9W, aka a Dash 9. More info on the model and the prototype is here: www.spookshow.net/loco/kato44.html

[@davestrains6816]

Great video!

[@KylesYTU]

This is awesome!

[@danagapie559]

The flood loader.

[@kodyalden4781]

I have so many questions! I'm currently in the process of planning my N scale layout main operation is coal would love to do live coal loads and unloading! Any chance of a new video of the layout and process? and would you be willing to point a guy in the right direction to make this dream come true? Amazing work!!

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Working on a new video of the flood loader and rotary dumper. Highly recommend nscale.net, trainboard.com and therailwire.net. Loading is easier than unloading.

[@kevinguthrie5495]

How the dumper works: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iILVd6mtqrqgqMk

[@danagapie559]

would you consider building one and selling?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

No, but I could send build details if you want. Are we talking the loader or the dumper?

[@4gauge10]

@@kevinguthrie5495 BOTH!.(HAHA!)

[@steverolfe63]

@@kevinguthrie5495 - would you be able to send me the build details for both please? I've been looking for years for a rotary dumper and coal loader for N scale ! I've just found your video.

[@jimmhenry657]

Could you please send the details to me to as well. I love running coal trains on our home layout from the mine to the power plant. Awesome video

[@jimmhenry657]

Details for both of them loader and the dumper

[@TonVerkleijT3]

What is the music?

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Credit to E's Jammy Jams "You had to be" in the youtube free music library. kzbin.info/aero/PLKCo4y0JbV2a7azDkmbIlyYtWzQdaDwiM

[@TonVerkleijT3]

@@kevinguthrie5495 Thank you !

[@gt500mike-8]

Hi Kevin I'm very impressed with your work. If you are still offering build details for dumper & loader I would like a copy. I can't wrap my head around your rotary couplers fix either. Great job

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Added a description of how to make rotary couplers here: www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=50831.0