mr lytles class fredericksburg

[@timothybrooks6394]

Ironic that just as how Hancock could not convince Burnside at Fredericksburg, Longstreet could not convince Lee at Gettysburg.

[@ronaldshank7589]

BOTH of these Generals, Hancock and Longstreet, were wiser than their immediate superiors.

[@davidpahlman8166]

And both end up making an assault against a fortified enemy they know will fail.

[@17Watman]

Irony

[@gallantcavalier3306]

Burnside was a fool, Hancook was a great General.

[@CaptainStyle427]

👍

[@DBAllen]

For a Northerner.

[@michaelwoods4495]

Yes, but Burnside knew his limitations and tried to decline the command. His demeanor by the actors is inconsistent with his actual actions.

[@gallantcavalier3306]

@@michaelwoods4495 Not really, accounts from men Like General Couch and General Franklin state that Burnside held onto command aggressively, sticking with decisions that many of his own commanders were against.

[@ronaldshank7589]

Gen. Burnside...a man that, in this case, had dead ears, and blinded eyes...and ended up paying for it, by being removed from his lofty position, that he had so arrogantly occupied just a little while before! The Holy Bible tells us that Pride, and a Haughty Spirit, goes before a fall and before destruction. This General should've listened to Gen. Hancock. I'd be willing to bet that he regretted his foolish decision for the rest of his life!

[@dholley51492]

Hindsight is 20/20. Burnside has a point, any division on the other side if the river would've been cut off and destroyed.

[@bradjohnson1578]

He had every luxury of deviating from the larger plan. He was the commanding General of the army of the Potomac. Lincoln didn't care how he did it if you change the plan a million times. He wanted it over. Frankly it wouldn't have mattered how they crossed our boys were ready.

[@ZFKATNBADGER40]

The epitome of knowing you have the better plan but you are ousted by a person of superior rank, simply due to their seniority. Here in the present time we face the same obstacles but it just results in not getting promotions, here it cost a lot dead bodies.

[@robertelee6373]

General Hancock was one of the best American Civil War generals that there ever was.

[@ronaldshank7589]

Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock was a very strong Union General. He had the proverbial Heart of a Lion! I personally would've loved to have served under his Command!!!

[@hvymettle]

As Hancock never commanded an army, we don't know what kind of a general he would have been in that regard. He was a competent corps commander.

[@mdcclxxxi8509]

@@ronaldshank7589 maybe in the mexican american war but he was dead weight in the civil war

[@lanceheaps581]

@@mdcclxxxi8509 you are thinking of Major General Winfield Scott not Major General Hancock. MAJ General Scott had no field commands in the Civil War.

[@mdcclxxxi8509]

@@lanceheaps581 Mb I get them mixed up alot

[@hvymettle]

This scene is most likely apocryphal; it never happened. Films like this are dramatized for entertainment purposes and are not to be considered as sources for factual history. According to accounts in some popular literature, Union division commander Maj. Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock witnessed a herd of cows crossing the river and suggested the army do the same, only to be rebuffed by his blustery commander as a meddling subordinate. In this tale, Hancock personifies the frustration of the Union army, and because Burnside is so easy to vilify, most people accept the anecdote as further proof that he was inept. The misconceptions captured in this episode add fuel to the fire that has scorched his reputation. The rocky stretch of river Hancock pointed out was not wheel-friendly. To position part of the army across the river in hostile territory with only the supplies it could carry would be a precarious choice. Cannons, like supply wagons, depended on a wheel-friendly crossing, meaning the artillery would have had a tougher time getting across the river than the cows Hancock allegedly spotted. The river crossings proved relatively easy as the town shielded the Union army and Lee offered only token resistance, yet caused a sufficient delay to allow Jackson time to call in his downriver forces and concentrate on the Prospect Hill position. Burnside planned to launch his main attack against the south end of the Confederate line, Prospect Hill, where the high ground wasn’t as formidable as it was directly behind the city. To prevent the Confederates from reinforcing the southern part of their line, though, Burnside intended to launch an attack against the northern end of the Confederate position to hold those potential reinforcements in place. This is a classic holding attack, which is the dominant tactic the US army relies on today. Burnside intended to launch his attack against Prospect Hill in the predawn hours of December 13 with 60,000 men. Franklin attacked with one division, Meade's, which happened into a gap in Jackson's line, but being unsupported, had to withdraw. Meade, confident he could exploit the breakthrough if supported, desperately called for reinforcements. No one came, so Meade rode back himself to look for help. He even verbally assaulted another general who had not marched to his aid. But it was all to no avail. Meade’s commander, Franklin, had decided his soldiers had had enough and called off the attack. Yet he didn’t tell Burnside. And so, Burnside continued to send troops into the meat grinder in front of the stone wall to support an attack at the far end of the field that was not happening. While Burnside, as commanding general, owns the results of this battle, his plan was not completely idiotic, the execution was poor.

[@rupertmay7432]

If Hancock had of been in charge and NOT BURNSIDE things might have turned out different at Fredericksburg

[@1223steffen]

Blame Lincoln

[@derrickkilmer5918]

Anyone find it funny that General Sumner is standing in the doorway waiting for his cue to enter in the beginning? lol

[@readsomebooks666]

You know, it always strikes me how good the commanders of both sides were by the end of the war. Christ, can you imagine what Lee, Longstreet, Jackson, Grant, Meade, Hancock and the rest could’ve accomplished if they hadn’t been stuck fighting each other.

[@Nmax]

It is sad they fought each other. They were great generals and gentlemen.

[@analogalien651]

@@Nmax let’s not romanticize them too much. They were all great military strategists and leaders but they were still all flawed human beings. Just look at U.S. grant. He was a alcoholic who failed at everything he tried to accomplish and couldn’t hold a job until he joined the officer corps and went on to take Lee’s surrender and become president. If the war didn’t happen he’d have died unknown. It doesn’t take away anything they accomplished but it’s important to realize they were not saints. I can’t imagine knowing how many people were brutally killed or injured because of my commands, even when victorious.

[@thanhhoangnguyen4754]

​@@analogalien651 Honestly Grant was at dead end of his career until the war came. Like Lee the same thing. His family estate are not earning well enough to even keep the slaves.

[@analogalien651]

@@thanhhoangnguyen4754 that’s what I said, grant failed at everything he tried until he joined the officer corps of the U.S. army, and even then if he was stationed somewhere with no “action” (battles) he got drunk all day every day to the point his staff officers conspired to keep him away from alcohol . Lee also a very flawed individual. Big ego and pride that got so many people killed. These men were human and subject to the same vices and predilections as everyone one else . Movies like Gettysburg and Gods and Generals glorified the war in general but especially the commanding officers. War is a horrific experience even in small battles/ fire fights. the sheer magnitude of many civil war battles made them essentially human meat grinding expeditions ! Both armies left a trail of death and carnage behind in the battle fields full of corpses rotting in the summer heat until the local residents had to bury them. psychologically horrific conditions. The smell alone… of uncharged masses of men marching 20 miles a day let alone amputated limbs festering , gangrene, and corpses everywhere. War shouldn’t be glorified. It’s not godly it legal murder. And men like grant and Lee sent hundreds of thousands to their death, far from home and many buried in mass graves only to be dug up and reburied. People who talk of civil war today need to see the pictures and hear the letters soldiers wrote to their loved ones. It is not something anyone with any sense should be flirting with ,?especially with modern technology. Just look at Gaza. Yeah a nation can protect themselves of course but the idf is murdering civilians.. oops, thought that school was a Hamas stronghold. Over and over they whoopsie there way through a clear ethnic purge! Disgusting behavior but very much human behavior . We can choose to demand peace and cut them off completely if they keep murdering civilians (children!)

[@heihei3453]

Burnside's decisions were poor but to his defense, he refused command of the army twice before, believing he was not up to the task.

[@kurtsherrick2066]

The reason Burnside took the job because he hated Hooker who would have been Lincoln's Pick.

[@1223steffen]

@@kurtsherrick2066 thousand died because burnside hated hooker

[@anonymousanonymity2815]

@@kurtsherrick2066 well Lincoln sort of did prod him into it like “you knowwwwww if you don’t take it I’ll give it to the guy I know you despise”

[@charlietheanteater3918]

Does anyone else find burnsides voice really soothing to listen to for some reason?

[@SuperKiller177]

Exactly why I’m here 😂

[@ronaldshank7589]

No! Never have...and never will!

[@mikesuggs1642]

This movie should have narrowed its focus! By trying to tell the events in 3 major Battles they miss the mark completely and leave way too much out! A narrower focus centering around one Battle perhaps The Maryland Campaign cumulating in Antietam could have made it much better and worth remembering!

[@hvymettle]

The movie is widely considered Lost Cause propaganda.

[@samuelenglander8367]

i feel bad for you at the crater gen burnside i felt you couldve won black troops first wave edwin sumner old bald head

[@rhazeus9078]

Lincol should have picked Hancock, not Burnside IMO.

[@darthroden]

Actually it was Lincoln and Halleck who picked that incompetent jackass, and only because they needed to replace what they though was an even bigger incompetent jackass, namely MacClellean.

[@ronaldshank7589]

@@darthroden As (usually) slow and over-cautious as Gen. McClellan was, and the way that Gen. Lee out-smarted him every single time, after Gen. Lee took Command of all of the Confederate Army, Gen. McClellan, in a way of speaking, was the Confederacy's best friend! 🤣😆🤣😆🤣! This guy thought that he was out-numbered at one point, and doubled his own estimation of how many people the Confederate Army had. The only time that Gen. McClellan even came close to beating the Confederates, was at Antietam, and that battle was a huge bloodbath! He ended up being replaced by Gen. Pope for a quick minute, then he got his leadership role back after that, only to lose it to Gen. Burnside in very late 1862, who, after the Fredericksburg fiasco, was replaced by, I think, Gen. Hooker. President Lincoln had a horrible time finding the right leader...until he found Gen. Ulysses Simpson Grant...and, that time, President Lincoln hit the proverbial jackpot!

[@mdcclxxxi8509]

@@ronaldshank7589 Mclellan was a great organizer but he was a very poor leader

[@ronaldshank7589]

@@mdcclxxxi8509 Yeah! This guy (in "General" terms-no pun intended), had the habit of moving the Union Army under his command at the proverbial snail's pace. The ONLY time that he moved swiftly, was up at Antietam, and areas up around that way, such as Harper's Ferry. No wonder President Lincoln removed him from command! Then, President Lincoln made an even worse choice with Gen. Pope, then Gen. Burnside, then Gen. Hooker...and never really got anywhere in winning the Civil War, until he made Gen. Ulysses Simpson Grant the General of all of the Union Army. I love what President Lincoln said, concerning Gen. Grant:"I can't spare this man. He fights"!

[@davidpahlman8166]

One of the problems with the Army of the Potomac was Lincoln’s refusal to allow the commander to make decisions independent of Halleck in the War Department in Washington. Which is why John Reynolds, rather than Sykes, led the 1st Corps into Gettysburg on the morning of July 1st, 1863

[@ronaldshank7589]

Gen. Burnside:"I will not make the same mistake as my predecessors". Sure enough, he did make the same mistake as his predecessors...and it cost many a Brave Union Soldier their lives! Burnside, here being shown as being so sure of himself, was relieved of his command, sometime soon after the devastating loss at Fredericksburg. He, just like. Gens. McClellan and Pope before him, seemingly couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag...so to speak. This is the MAIN reason why the Union fared so badly during the first two years of the Civil War-Horrendous leadership! Antietam was a muddled mess, and the points and counter-points as to which side won that Battle are still around to this very day. It took until 1863 for President Lincoln to finally find the right Man to win the Civil War for the Union-Gen. Ulysses Simpson Grant! President Lincoln said, concerning Gen. Grant:"I can't spare this Man-He fights"! The rest is history...

[@kurtsherrick2066]

That is true that Antietam was basically a Draw. But to the Union it seemed like a Victory compared to the Union's devastating losses. After the Traveling team went back home. It was the first time in the East that the Union's huge Army held their own to the Tiny, Starving and Barefooted Army of Lee and the South.

[@hvymettle]

You miss the point that Lincoln interfered with his generals in the east causing much of the muddled mess himself.

[@ronaldshank7589]

@@hvymettle You know what? Strangely enough, I'm actually giving you a Thumbs up on your comment to me. You're right. President Lincoln was so anxious to win the Civil War, that he forgot to just step back, and let the Generals that served, at one point or another, make wise decisions that would have possibly won the Civil War earlier than the Union did.

[@popebiscuit3443]

Being from the south I am very much more sympathetic to the Confederates and their point of view. That being said I genuinely feel bad particularly for Meade. He was a good general and commander, and it pains me that he had to beg for his job from such a spiteful and petty man like Grant.

[@anonymousanonymity2815]

There’s nothing sympathetic about the south, multiple states said in their secession letters that it was not about state rights but about slavery. And the idea that grant was a petty asshole is an idea ginned up by a bunch of “historians” who contributed to the idiotic lost cause lie.

[@warager4753]

Grant was neither petty or spiteful.

[@Comradcommodore]

What point of view are you necessarily sympathetic too in regards with the Confederacy lol ......

[@AbrahamLincoln4]

And it would be foolhardy to not take advice from General Hancock.

[@ronaldshank7589]

Unfortunately, Gen. Burnside learned that lesson THE HARD WAY!

[@rhazeus9078]

@@ronaldshank7589 Yeah, he's like the most worst general imo.

[@ronaldshank7589]

@@rhazeus9078 Hee hee hee hee hee!!! Generals McClellan, Pope, and Burnside are all in a class by themselves...and they're all trying to play a game of "Who gets to wear the Dunce Cap today"!!! Is it any wonder that, for nearly the first half of the Civil War, that the Union was so hard-pressed to even narrowly get any victories over the Confederates? Think about it-For nearly 2 years, the Confederates had the Union basically running around in circles (so to speak)! And these three "Generals" were Generals that President Lincoln trusted (At least at first)?!? What was he thinking? FINALLY-He finds this General, Ulysses Simpson Grant, that KNOWS HOW to fight, and win battles (Shiloh, Vicksburg), and puts him in charge of all the Union Armies, and eventually, the United States is saved! All because one man, General Grant, not only knew how to fight, but knew how to inspire his Troops to win! McClellan was a slowpoke and somewhat of a coward, Pope was a Braggart that got pretty much fired shortly after Antietam, and Burnside thought that having a good part of the Union Army under his Command end up slaughtered, while marching directly into the face of the Confederates that, I might add, were well-entrenched behind a very solid stone wall, would be the thing to help them win the battle of Fredericksburg. For those Confederates, it was a Turkey shoot! They tore the Union Lines apart at will! Only a Thousand Confederates lost their lives, while those Brave Union Soldiers lost thousands of lives within their ranks, on that dark and bloody day!

[@AbrahamLincoln4]

@Engage in spiritual WAR It never entered my mouth so who knows.

[@anonymousanonymity2815]

Honestly the attacks on the heights were more forgivable than picketts charge because they weren’t supposed to be the main attack

[@Donnybrook10]

Brunside was a much more obese man

[@Truthguy]

Who was the general standing next to Hancock when they were talking to Burnside, and then talking with Hancock in the 2nd scene?

[@paulmorales3815]

Truuthguy I think the general is the 2d corps commander Darius n couch

[@Truthguy]

@@paulmorales3815 Thanks!

[@epyon1983]

@@paulmorales3815 he is Gen. Darius Couch Gen. Hancock commanded one of his division

[@AZsportshut]

That wily grey fox has out maneuvered our command again..... and there is gonna be hell to pay!

[@haroldgeorgeibelljr]

Burnside blunder

[@analogalien651]

Burnside 😡… He could have taken Marie heights, the town and have men halfway to Richmond or further if he had of just acted as soon as reasonably possible. Anything but no he had to have thise pontoons... 3 more years of bitter & bloody fighting, dying and suffering was endured. All that disaster and all we got were sideburns!

[@thanhhoangnguyen4754]

How i find it ironic that later Lee make the same mistake as Burnside at Gettysburg. Honestly Longstreet and Hancock was right.

[@analogalien651]

@@thanhhoangnguyen4754 this is the reason the union soldiers chanted “Fredericksburg “ after picket’s “charge” the tables had turned.

[@thanhhoangnguyen4754]

@@analogalien651 Yeah Lee make the same mistake as Burnside. When Longstreet try to perused him for a other option. Like Hancock to Burnside. I feel sorry for those who led the charge into the slaughter.