Is Zero Waste possible with a BambuLab AMS 3D printer?

[@3dpprofessor]

A lot of people are asking about cutting early and returning to the print before finishing the layer. I had that same thought initially, and even mentioned it in the previous video about this subject, but this solution is more complex than it seems at first. First of all you have to stop the layer early to do the cut. This sounds simple but but often GCode has long lines be a single command, and what if the optimal place for a cut is in the middle of a long line? Do you stop before doing the line? Do you try to calculate where in the middle of the line to stop and turn a single GCode command into two so you can pause to cut? Either way you're adding a new seam to your wall, which is unsightly. Then, what if you're adding only small amounts of several different colors to a layer? I'm talking small enough that you actually need to cut for that color, 2 or 3 colors before the last one gets added? That's a lot to coordinate. And you'll need to be sure you haven't missed anything, like the effect of travel moves, or your color could start changing too soon, or too late. And since every color combination needs a different amount of purge, it gets even more complicated! Not saying it can't be done. Put enough time and effort into it and anything's possible. But if there's a more simple solution, that's more time that Bambulab's programmers can focus on other things. For more ways Bambulabs can improve things, check the blogaroo: www.3dpprofessor.com/2024/03/09/is-zero-purge-on-the-bambulab-ams-3d-printers-possible/

[@802Garage]

If it could be calculated such that the cut is done before starting infill, the infill could be finished entirely with purge and only any necessary purge after the infill would be wasted. Or, it could retract and cut before starting infill and do as much purge as is calculated to be necessary to waste and then finish the infill with the rest of the purge so it hits the overkill purge phase before starting on walls. Combining that strategy with purge objects could end up resulting in as near to zero waste as possible, albeit with likely some messy infill. We will definitely get more efficient algorithms as time goes on.

[@jonathanberry1111]

If it still purges some of the original colour, why not just pull out early and print some of that purge colour on your print before the transition? Rather than stopping it when done and THEN purging, begin purging on the last few cm of output since the urge seemed to be the largest section!?

[@3dpprofessor]

@@jonathanberry1111 I do not see how the post your replying to didn't answer the question you're asking.

[@jonathanberry1111]

@@3dpprofessor I think maybe I'm suggesting something a little different, essentially when you pull out the filament, cut it and push new stuff through you have some amount of original colour purge that is 100% essentially still the old colour, I didn't think that was being printed with to finish up that portion of the colour buy maybe I'm wrong. I thought it stopped printing a given colour and then began purging, rather than purging to finish the portion of the colour?

[@comentator4481]

lets be honest... it is not in bambu best interest to make it work... they make majority of their money on filament not the printers... you just took 45% of their profit...

[@AndrewAHayes]

If you are printing 4 objects in different colours you can select print by object instead of by layer and this will print each object before moving on to the next, this will save you oodles of wasted filament as there will only be one filament purge per object.

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes, that's a good setting to know. I didn't mention it because that wasn't the point of this video and would have made the video run a bit longer as I'd have to explain about spacing things out so that you don't get a nozzle crash (though the slicer does help you with this).

[@stevereese6488]

I wish bambu lab would come out with a multi head printer with each head dedicated to a color and even type of filament, but I imagine you would go from a x1c $1500 printer to double or triple the cost. But there would essentially be no waste.

[@3dpprofessor]

Double? I wish it would be so little. Quad at least. Most of the cost would be engineering research.

[@smanzoli]

@@3dpprofessorI imagine (as an engineer) a 3D printer which only uses white filament... a bigger head will then add RGB pigment (as an ink jet printer does), and print that 3D dot in any of 16 million colors (only in the outter layer of walls, visible walls).

[@mackado]

​@@smanzolipeople have messed around with this before by using different color markers coloring the filament before the extruder.

[@srlacotista3252]

at that point just buy prusa mk4

[@deantjewie]

That would definitely increase energy consumption as well since you'll need to heat more

[@zuppy2]

they’ve added retraction before color change in the latest version. not sure if it’s yet out of beta, but they’re listening to the feedback :)

[@artemyevtushenko8722]

what version of the slicer this is? Need to make sure I’m using this!

[@diederichgarz6317]

Did you find Out the Version? Is it released yet? ​@@artemyevtushenko8722

[@Goodvvine]

@@artemyevtushenko8722 It was released on 1.9.2. You can find it under Filament Settings > Setting Overrides > Long retraction when cut. This is enabled by default on BBL PLA Basic and BBL PETG Basic and retracts 18mm. A1 doesn't support this. The X1E and P series also allow changing this directly on the printer settings under the "Extruder" tab. The X1C doesn't have this setting as a global setting (yet?). It's still marked as experimental. The author of that 45% reduction G-Code profile was credited for the idea.

[@pvic6959]

i just got the P1S with AMS last month! how do you find that setting?

[@slickrick37]

I want to know this too.

[@d-leb]

Plastic waste is on my mind more every time I print. I'm going to have to start thinking about various purge "blocks" that I can create where color doesn't matter. Possibly various brackets, gears, or basically any other section that would normally be hidden inside of something doesn't matter if it's a muddy grey or a dirty light color. Also, I have a feeling that the modified g-code would work for most of my prints that are printed with basic PLA. Hopefully it's updated to immediately push the clipped filament back into the hot end before it has a chance to cool down in the heat break and cause a clog. That would be my only concern about using the change as is.

[@theflyingnon1133]

maybe try to figure out if you could use purge for aprt of the infill?

[@rahulshah1408]

@theflyingnon1133that’s a fantastic idea.

[@yankeevader]

The slicer software allows the option to purge to infill which also helps quite a bit with the purge loss if you don’t care what color the infill is, another video I saw also said if you right click on the object within the slicer you get some more purge options

[@DEADB33F]

Can it dynamically alter the infill percentage on a layer-by-layer basis? eg. if there's more purge needed than required by the standard infill on that layer

[@graxxor]

This was tested by Teaching Techn but unfortunately the savings were miniscule compared to what is wasted each colour change. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmS9eoBposqaf7c Instead he showed the "intelligent change management" menu option with a multiplier to reduce losses per colour change.

[@chrisboerma7585]

You get a thumbs up just for the tie alone!

[@Aikano9]

Love my AMS, it allows me to use multiple materials and colors one one plate (do print by object, so that it only changes materials after finishing one object, and before starting on the next object). Not needing to manually change spools between your most used filaments is also very nice. I’ve not done a single full multi color print, just a handful of icons, or maybe some text in a different color on the first, or last two layers. Though I have made extensive use of multi material supports, setting PETG as support interface material for PLA, ABS, and ASA, and use PLA for PETG. Using them only as support interface materials gives you super clean, easily detaching supports with minimal waste. Just make sure to increase the purge value by 2x, or set the primary filament to pure white, and the support to pure black regardless of actual color. This is to ensure you get only the pure material in the print. If the mixed filaments are not properly purged away, your print will get a very weak section in the layer above the support, because that layer contains a mix of two incompatible materials that do not adhere to each other, and thus the layers detach almost as easily as the supports do.

[@blackrul3z]

​@@anthonylong5870 you use the same material for support as the main part. You swap only for support interface. Search around in yt, you will find the tutorials

[@Aikano9]

@@anthonylong5870 go to the support tab, and then right below Raft, you will see something called filament for supports. Here you can choose the support material, and the interface material. And below that again in the advanced section, you can set the support interface distance to 0, and the amount of top and bottom support interface layers you want

[@S.A.S.H.]

Thanks for the detailed explanation of the thought process behind this.

[@stevendaddario8803]

Worth noting that the reduce purge script was included in the latest beta release of bambuslicer

[@josephrecabarren6654]

How do you get to it in the bambu slicer?. , where is it located? Pls and thank you!.

[@stevendaddario8803]

@josephrecabarren6654 hi. I haven't had time to print for awhile so I'm not sure if the latest beta has changed the interface. The beta that introduced the setting gave p1 models the option through extruder parameters.

[@Dave_D.]

@@josephrecabarren6654 In the filament profile under 'over rides'. The wiki said it would be off by default, but it is on by default for Bambu filament. Off for everything else I presume (generic PLA for sure).

[@andrescorredor6656]

dear youtuber i like the info you provide, but i will subscribe because of the wholesome personallity, keep it up hello from colombia

[@Pyro-zf8qg]

this is how the mystery flavor in Dumb Dumbs was created.

[@kevinkevarson9513]

In Bambu studio, prepare- next to the filament you can click the edit button, go to settings override, they have an experimental long retract when cut option and you can dictate how much it retracts before cut

[@3dpprofessor]

Yup. That was added after this video. But very cool.

[@DanDeGaston]

Anyone else feel like the Duplicates methods was the best waste saving solution per unit? Loved the video, thank you!

[@Art_911]

Thanks first off. Also, also, LOL, I feel your pain when you put up a hypothetical and people latch on to that as the problem. Kudos to you for responding to those people "That wasn't the point of the video, I know that can be done" LOL I'm expecting my X1 carbon soon, and I'm a guy who loves to get my hands dirty. So I'm gleening all this info, and appreciate you and the community for ways to get things working a bit better.

[@lordmushy]

Just got an X1 Carbon and AMS and am printing my first multi color print. I watched your other Video on the subject and this came on next. from an hour ago! perfect timing! haha I love my 3 collored articulated FOX and hope I can reduce the poop! XD

[@TheMrLordicus]

Thanks! Got X1C week ago and learning stuffs about! Saw that they implemented it into their Bambu Studio as developer mode, let's see how it works 😋😋

[@i00Productions]

3:40 .. I don't know if things have changed as I've just got a bambu.. but this is no longer the case, with bamboo studio you can now print multiple models of different colours and it will do one at a time if they are far enough apart.. this is visually depicted when you move them apart far enough

[@3dpprofessor]

Things did change. It got better.

[@MrAmrasElensar]

Man I wished I had you as a teacher back in the day. You have a very soothing voice. 🙂

[@3dpprofessor]

Thank you very much.

[@OhImKiCkiN]

The issue with that custom gcode is that its very filament dependent, which you mentioned. I was excited when I first saw it circling on reddit a while back and tried it for myself.....until the jams started...oh the jams lol. Silk filament is a no-go, as the creator said. But so is certain colors of regular pla, even BBL brand, silver BBL ABS jams, every brand of Galaxy PLA I tried jams, Sunlu Clay PLA jams, Sunlu Matte Light Blue jams, Eryone Fuscia PLA jams. Those are all I can remember. Like i said, it's great when it works. But if it's a filament that hasnt been tested with the gcode, you have to babysit it to make sure it doesnt jam.

[@3dpprofessor]

That's funny, because with the current script I've printed tons of Silk with no problem. And I just finished a 2 day ABS print that worked so perfectly I never needed to bother with it. I guess this new script is mightier than the one on Reddit.

[@OhImKiCkiN]

​@@3dpprofessorIt's the same script. It's been circulating on Reddit/fbook since the end of last year. I didn't try silks because the creator says not to. But Ive also had great results with ABS (I've not printed 2 days though) and dozens of other filament brands and types. Actually all the ABS I tried worked great except for BBL Silver ABS, and that's kind of what sucked imo. I could print 6,7,8,etc, filament types with no issues. Then bam it jams with filament brand/type number 12 over and over....and back to babysitting any unproven filament for hours. It just made me feel like I was taking a huge leap back by having to watch my printers again. Anyway, great video on the topic. I haven't seen another creator cover this script so I'm glad it's getting traction on YT. Here's to more BL mods, and less purge waste.

[@DoRC]

15:07 you say there's no bleed over into the white but in this clip you can very clearly see a ton of bleed over into the white. What's the deal with that?

[@3dpprofessor]

I'm not sure what you're seeing. Looking at the physical blok it looks great.

[@sharazar]

Hoping the new Bamulab printer will have a dual extruder so the AMS could use at least 2 colors without needing to purge

[@Giles3dGaming]

Love the tie!!

[@3dpprofessor]

It's one of my favorites because it has a tie.. on the tie!

[@apple_ilev5s]

someone should implement this feature into a slicer, if you want to reuse the poops for new filament, you can set the bounds of where specific boxes are to sort them by color, for example: putting green to blue/blue to green poops in box 1, putting white to black/black to white in box 2 etc, and as of writing this i just realized the a1 is a bed slinger, so this will work if you attach the boxes to the bed, or make an external system to catch them

[@3dpprofessor]

Recycle blocks. I like it.

[@mytuberforyou]

Biggest factor for me is orientation and using surface text printed horizontally instead of embedded.

[@Aikano9]

The perfect every time overkill option should be the default, though there should be a setting or option that allows you to do the waste reduction procedure you mentioned, maybe even give it it a little pop up warning and confirmation button and a troubleshooting guide to minimize the amount of support requests this would inevitably cause

[@3dpprofessor]

I like this.

[@See-essEll]

@3dpprofessor Why not cut it before the color change to avoid retractions entirely? Once you have [cutter to nozzle distance]mm + [color 1 purge endlength minimum]mm remaining to the color change, cut. Retract color 1. Push with color 2 for [cutter to nozzle distance]mm, purge for [color 1 purge endlength minimum + color 2 purge startlength minimum]mm. No retractions, and your amount of the first filament in the hot end to purge goes down to just a few micrograms. This would require having your GCODE analyzed to find at what point to do the cut by measuring extrusion lengths... but subtraction is a concept that exists.

[@3dpprofessor]

A lot of people are having a similar response this morning, so Imma copy-paste my response to them to save me some time. I had that same thought initially, but it's more complex than it seems at first. First of all you have to stop in the right place to do the cut. But often GCode has long lines be a single command, and what if the optimal place for a cut is in the middle of a long line. Do you stop before doing the line? Do you try to calculate where in the middle of the line to stop? Either way you're adding a new seam, which is unsightly. What if you're adding only small amounts of several different colors, small enough that you actually need to cut for that color, 2 or 3 colors before the last one gets added? That's a lot to coordinate. And you'll need to be sure you haven't missed anything, like the effect of travel moves, or your color could start changing too soon, or too late. And since every color combination needs a different amount of purge, it gets more complicated. Not saying it can't be done. Put enough time and effort into it and anything's possible. But if there's a more simple solution, that's more time they can focus on other things.

[@kristen90c]

Side topic, that is a great tie!

[@charlesfinnestad6680]

Forgot to mention printing multiple of the same object and purging to infill can also reduce the purge considerably so if it is something you need multiple of that will also work. Also orienting so there are less color changes on the same layer. The three color example would only require 2 color changes if oriented properly.

[@3dpprofessor]

I recommend 2x PrintABlok blocks.

[@0braincellstbh]

3:47 you could do sequential printing which makes it so it does one first then the next and then the next, but the only downside is that they need to be printed in a specific place on the plate. I own a p1p so I don't know if the feature is on the a1 series but im pretty sure it is as bambu lab is great at adding similar features to their family of printers. Lol

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes, that is an option I didn't mention because that wasn't really the point of this video and I didn't want to confuse things.

[@Petrolfox669]

Hell yes large format Bambu! I was all ready to buy a 300mm plus model when I went to their site but, alas, it was not to be. I'd love to be able to fully retire my Kobra Max but for now I guess we're keeping him in standby.

[@paranoidpanzerpenguin5262]

You can do this for color changes, but for supports it's important to purge a lot to avoid filament cross contamination, otherwise you can end up with weak layers.

[@3dpprofessor]

For supports? Interesting. I frequently have supports fail and then build on the failure to succeed.

[@paranoidpanzerpenguin5262]

@@3dpprofessor I mean for filament changing for support filaments.

[@LeonFisher-Skipper]

I wrote you a message on printables! Thanks for doing a video!

[@3dpprofessor]

Awesome to connect with you here!

[@toddy9141]

Has the pull cut push thing happened? Seems totally the way to go 👍🏻

[@ShadowZergling]

RE: modifying g-code to pull back the filament before the cut: Have you seen the new feature in bambu lab studios that does this? Enable "Develop mode" at the bottom of preferences. In printer settings -> extruder: bambulabs now offer settings to adjust retraction length when switching material, long retraction (experimental), etc. Curious if these settings eliminate the need to modify G code and we can find the best settings here?

[@3dpprofessor]

Yup. They added that after this video, and I'm 100% taking credit.

[@3dpprofessor]

Bambulabs could do some things to make this better as well. www.3dpprofessor.com/2024/03/09/is-zero-purge-on-the-bambulab-ams-3d-printers-possible/

[@SunriseSearcher]

3:20 Nobody does that...and even if they did, there is a setting to print each part in series...so there would only be 1 color change per part...

[@3dpprofessor]

Unfortunately, I've seen it. I work in a makerspace and when you make technology available to the public you see all kinds of things that you would think no one would ever do. However, printing by part would be a solution to this, but the video was running long and wasn't really about that so I didn't mention it.

[@fyodorshabalin9217]

bambu slicer lets you do print by object, you still get to keep all of the convenience

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes. That wasn't the point of this video, so i didn't want to confuse things.

[@Azzysdesignworks]

The retract and cut seems a lot like the Prusa MMU3 we have here in the shop. It uses wipe towers, and is not always perfect, but works well.

[@Smrts955]

Why arent the default settings to purge to infill

[@3dpprofessor]

Good question. It is in the profile I introduced in this video, so that's good.

[@Smrts955]

@3dpprofessor yes, i meant it more as a we should pester bambu about it, because it really should be the default setting.

[@neologicspasms]

Thanks for the wonderful video! Also i think you should have mentioned Flush to Infill option that is available. Would have been nice to see your testing with that enabled and the reduction of poop.

[@3dpprofessor]

yes, that setting should be turned on, and it is in the profiles I linked to. But considering that for many prints infill is minimal, the effect of the setting is likewise minimal.

[@Eduardo_Ventura]

I love to paint figurines. So this feature to purge into an object might be very useful if I'm gonna paint it anyway.

[@3DJapan]

I don't have one of these but one of my printers can do 2 colors and it's the same thing. It drops all the poop down a little shoot on the side and I end up with a big pile of waste on the table.

[@maninalift]

Is it possible to cut early instead of retracting? I.e. printing blue then cut and change to red then continue printing a small amount of blue, then purge, then print red.

[@3dpprofessor]

Pinned comment.

[@arekx]

My primary problem with AMS is the time needed for filament switch. It takes about 1min30s for one change and if print has thousands of these... (no idea how long that is on "AMS Lite").

[@Aikano9]

I presume you can lower the time drastically with the LITE, since the four different materials are sent to the printer in different tubes and only joined right above the hotend, rather than just a single tube going from AMS

[@3dpprofessor]

Surprisingly, despite the fact that the AMS light isn't retracting as far as the AMS original does, layer changes still take about the same amount of time. Maybe a little less, but the majority of the time in the switch is in the purging. I don't know why it purges so slowly. Maybe that's more effective for cleaning out the nozzle.

[@jamesmcdevitt9518]

Seems to me that Bambu Labs could just put the cutter lower in the heat sink of the head and reduce the amount of purge filament that needs to be pushed out. Less old color to flush! However, that being said, it would be a major redesign of the head assembly and not something we users can do. Maybe some third party manufacturer could do this.

[@3dpprofessor]

I've thought about this. But I worry that putting a hole that close to the not end might give another escape for the melted filament and cause a jam. But I suppose we won't know until someone tries it.

[@egeoeris]

Honestly I don't understand why the excess material isn't used for infill instead of the useless blocks we print. Even being able to print a mixed layer model instead if those blocks would be better.

[@fullsendmarinedarwin7244]

Awesome idea!!

[@3dpprofessor]

It is used for infill. But infill is minimal, so the effect will be minimal.

[@fullsendmarinedarwin7244]

@@3dpprofessor minimal on small prints but surly on larger prints an infill purge would be viable? how much filament does it take to fully purge a color - 30mm?

[@tacoyaky8872]

​​@@3dpprofessorwhat about purging to infill and inner walls? Also, can the slicer eventually just determine if infill plus inner walls plus purge object are enough purge, and if not, poop out the necessary amount first?

[@CrazyLegsFE]

The printer knows when the next layer is coming I feel like an early cut would be the easiest way to reduce waste because the end of the last layer could be finished by whats in the nozzle. The only timing has to ensure the "transition" is the only waste..

[@3dpprofessor]

Lemme just copy-paste a response I made to someone else who had the same idea: I also had that same thought initially, but it's more complex than it seems at first. First of all you have to stop in the right place to do the cut. But often GCode has long lines be a single command, and what if the optimal place for a cut is in the middle of a long line. Do you stop before doing the line? Do you try to calculate where in the middle of the line to stop? Either way you're adding a new seam, which is unsightly. What if you're adding only small amounts of several different colors, small enough that you actually need to cut for that color, 2 or 3 colors before the last one gets added? That's a lot to coordinate. And you'll need to be sure you haven't missed anything, like the effect of travel moves, or your color could start changing too soon, or too late. And since every color combination needs a different amount of purge, it gets more complicated. Not saying it can't be done. Put enough time and effort into it and anything's possible. But if there's a more simple solution, that's more time they can focus on other things.

[@smanzoli]

I'd add support for that cube piece and print it rotated 45 degrees, black in bottom and white in top... waste would reduce 98%

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes, but then it wouldn't test the transition, like it was made to do.

[@gskluzacek]

Lots of good analysis and insight in your video, but being relatively new to the Bambu Studio slicer I would really appreciate if you would have some video showing how to configure the slicer to do the things you were suggesting.

[@3dpprofessor]

I'll have to look into that.

[@konchu]

Maybe this exist but it would be nice if there was a mode to use purge as infill.

[@3dpprofessor]

There is. And it's on by default in the script I told you about. But the whole point of infill is to be as minimal as possible, so the gains are minimal as well.

[@ameliabuns4058]

even the 3 block purge was higher than a no purge object print on my tool changer lol.

[@nexus_keeper]

A version of the false hydra would be very cool to see in the Cthulhu series.

[@3dpprofessor]

We did end up with a hydra hydra.

[@BackDaws]

Ia there a way to turn off purging and jist have quickly stop for a filament change then just carry on ? I think in some cases it would give a nice transitional colour change.

[@3dpprofessor]

I tried that. Depending on the size, you end up with almost a negative effect because it's still printing the old color before it starts with the new.

[@peterkn2]

I think another way Bambu can save on poop is to cut the filament early. Imagine if it cut the filament before it needed to and then continued to print with the cut filament until the cut line was near the melt chamber. It may be less reliable since the filament is cut, but i think it's worth looking into

[@3dpprofessor]

Check the pinned comment.

[@tonysfun]

GREAT video! Thank you so much!

[@danibstream6871]

You can also purge to infil

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes, the infill that's designed to use a minimal amount of filament. It's impact will be likewise minimal.

[@Gregatron13]

Well thanks for making me want to get back into designing lovable creatures 😂😝

[@runforitman]

14:45 the fact this purge used a 10th of a 1kg roll is insane to me

[@3dpprofessor]

It was a lot of changes.

[@75keg75]

11:55 is sort of like how mosaic does it in the palette 3 in the heater cartridge thing.

[@3dpprofessor]

The mosaic palate is a completely different paradigm entirely. They have to move the cut into the heater cartage to fuse it, so yes, they move it from the cut to where it needs to be, otherwise it wouldn't work.

[@iwillgettableflipped]

Main reason i didnt get an AMS with my a1 mini is because of all the waste. if bambu lab put in these settings as new defaults, as well as trying to reduce waste in other ways, I would possibly have bought it. I think we should have separate profiles, one for the colours being absolutely perfect, and one to save as much filament as possible with slight discolouration

[@3dpprofessor]

It has gotten better recently. Still wasteful, but a lot less than it used to be. They seem to have implemented some of these upgrades.

[@roll4stealth671]

i've read there is also ways to purge into the infill or something like that as well? I'm probably going to pick up a A1 combo before Christmas as gift to myself and have been researching this a lot lately.

[@3dpprofessor]

You can, and it does so by default. But the infill is designed to be minimal, so it's impact is minimal.

[@roll4stealth671]

@3dpprofessor ah ok.

[@santiagomoneta]

what if we could make the purge to go into the infill of a model?

[@3dpprofessor]

Infill is, by design, minimal, so it's effect will be, likewise, minimal. But it does so by default already.

[@Mikey_xx_]

I don't use flush towers or objects. You can turn it off on my X1C carbon. I also reduced the multiplier to .3 to get the smallest poop as possible.

[@3dpprofessor]

3? Like, 3 percent? That's no change at all. How's your colors turn out?

[@maartjevancaspel]

Thanks for the video! 👾😊

[@Dave_D.]

If you have more flush object area per layer than you need to flush (it prints straight color into some of it because it has to finish the layer and it's already done w/ the change), if you cut the flush volume down to say, .1, I wonder if it would poop less and then finish into the object even though it THINKS it's already done flushing (when it really hardly flushed at all).

[@3dpprofessor]

If you have enough flush object for the worst case scenario... that might work. I'm really not sure.

[@Dave_D.]

@@3dpprofessor Unless it always puts some down the poop shoot no matter what, I don't see why you couldn't set the flush volume to 0 and really have ZERO waste. Maybe someday I will try it.

[@garrettmars756]

Is it possible to cut, change filament, continue the print with the purge until the initial color moves to the transition stage, then use the transition for infill followed by the new color(overkill) for the item? Seems with a little more advanced programming purge was should be significantly reduced.

[@3dpprofessor]

Check the pinned comment.

[@barry-allan]

This is what I have been doing with Manuel color swaps on my main printer ( I have a s1)

[@VintageISO]

I feel like you could have a single hot end with multiple 90 or 45 degree entry points for each filament. You'd probably have to have a direct drive for each entry point which would be complicated and bigger than multiple tool heads but it could be done. This could allow mixing of colors in the hot end. Oversimplified explanation but it's another thought.

[@3dpprofessor]

Interesting that you say that now. My next video is exploring the idea, and failing, of color mixing 3D printers. Long story short, it's been tried, and it's a bad idea.

[@VintageISO]

@@3dpprofessor Just a thought from an EE that dabbles in all of this stuff outside of work. I guess the best solution so far is multiple tool heads i.e. Prusa XL similar to other tooling and machines in the fabrication industry. It's the most elegant solution I mean. I'm not quite to the point of justifying an XL but that'll be my first and only "automatic" multi color usage printer. I've got a few Bambu Labs but none have the AMS for the amount of waste. I mean I started in printing when it started so I'm used to the old school methods of inserting pauses etc for colors. More time involvement but I'm not doing this for production either (where an XL would be my only option).

[@3dpprofessor]

@@VintageISO I wish the CL were easier to get started it, but yes, it is the best solution, not only for multi-color, but also for mixing multiple materials, though adhesion is definitely something you need to worry about in that case.

[@KernsJW]

The waste blocks, 100% infill? Thinking that prime could be hidden inside an object being printed maybe

[@3dpprofessor]

Never 100% infill. 90% tops. Or you end up with overlap that can be problematic. But, yeah, that prime tower should 100% be able to be hidden inside other objects. But I'm thinking automatically by the slicer. Just prime into the flush object's infill. Don't do it with the shells or you'll end up with a bad looking print, but infill, absolutely.

[@Richard-ys2ns]

Surely the purge could be used as infill on the next layer on certain models?

[@3dpprofessor]

Sure. But infill is, by design, minimal. So the impact will be minimal.

[@Bigrignohio]

As someone returning to the idea of 3d printing late in the game (was involved in forums in the Reprap era and just looked in every now and then since) what about using "purge" for the infill?

[@3dpprofessor]

Yeah, that setting is on by default. But infill is designed to be minimal, so so is it's impact.

[@75keg75]

9:55 isn’t it the other way around purge area bottom then transition then overkill. I suggest the diagram is right but the labels aren’t. So you want to shorten the top black area…

[@3dpprofessor]

I suppose it depends on which side of the straightened waste you're holding. But, technically, if you look at it as it comes out of the nozzle, you're probably right.

[@WhyplayGaming]

Don't forget you can print per object instead of per line

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes. I had to skip mentioning that because the video was running a bit long, and that wasn't really the point of the video, but it is a good thing to know.

[@individualone]

🤷‍♂️it's progress, thanx for all your work

[@Dragonited]

Having an object on the printbed that the color doesn't matter like if it where to be painted anyway then it should theoretically remove all the waste exept for the small droop block? The machine might need to use more extra filament whenever the filament changes if the layer on the extra figure is a bit larger and only when the layer on the extra objects layer is smaler then the needed purge it will give some waste?

[@3dpprofessor]

That's the thesis.

[@pirobot668beta]

In the metal-casting industry, it's not unusual for a 5 kg object to need 15 kg or more of melted metal. The 'excess' metal is there to fill the sprues and risers that service the mold. The excess is cut away, the metal remelted, used in another casting. Unfortunately, printer waste is multicolored (multi-material?) and so we can't just make new filament from waste. I recall from somewhere that the length of purged material can be controlled in the slicer... A 'transition profile' would be good to have...some color combinations are gonna transition more cleanly than others and need less purge material.

[@3dpprofessor]

There is a transition multiplier, but if you make it too low, you don't get pure color out. Part of me wants to get an Artemis filament extruder and grind up my waste plastic, because even if all you get out is a gray colored filament, as long as it's the right type, use that for functional prints.

[@robolizard222]

Holy cow! You still have some useable 3D solutech? Man, I ran out of the awesome green color years ago.

[@3dpprofessor]

Where in the video did I have solutech? I can't find any of it around.

[@robolizard222]

@@3dpprofessorit’s behind you on the prusa printer in the video. Sadly Solutech went under due to being misleading about “made in America” and the us government shut them down. Miss their colors. They had such great clear colors.

[@robolizard222]

@@3dpprofessorif you wanting a similar set of colors (especially the green) Atomic filament is very close. Not completely (to the very picky eye), but looks very nice regardless. They also seem to make a good variety of clear PLA colors. I use the green color for alien terrain and such. Gotta make it look bizarre.

[@konijnization]

What happens if this goes wrong and the filament gets stuck in the cool block? Do you solve it with a cold pull? Can you clean it? Do you need to replace the hot end? Does anyone have experience how often this happens?

[@3dpprofessor]

It definitely doesn't happen very often.

[@MrBlonde5k1]

But what about when the settings to "print by object" and flush into an additional object BOTH selected. Will the printer print the main object first AND flush into the additional object whenever there is a color change or will it print the first object entirely and not flush into the second object?

[@3dpprofessor]

That's an interesting question, but I don't think it matters much. Whether the purge goes to infill then object or object than infill, it doesn't effect the amount of purge being done.

[@MrBlonde5k1]

@ it would make a huge difference, actually. Consider when we add objects whose color I don’t care about just for purge usage. Currently, when using by layer, the additional items must be as tall as the color change item. Then, the system will print the extra items using fresh filament except at purge layers - that’s all filament I didn’t want to spend. What’s more - if the item isn’t large enough for one layer to use all the purge, then the system must still purge yet more. With my idea (by item priority except for object purge). That way the printer could only print the additional items out of purge material and not new material (unless it is needed to finish the item). That way extra items could be virtually 100% purge material, be much smaller, and not waste any additional filament. It would be way faster too. This could have interesting options, like automatically choosing the number and size of an assortment of purge items that it needs for a given print. I tested it after asking you. When on “by item” even with purge into item selected, it purged all material and put NONE into the purge object, which it did second.

[@pirobot668beta]

Move the cutter...make the cut just above the hot-end. If you can't raise the bridge, lower the river.

[@3dpprofessor]

That would put it between the heat end and the cool block, and that might provide another exit for the heated plastic to exit the system. Or, you plug up that exit with the cutting tool, and now you're heating up a plastic mounted piece of metal, eventually resulting in melting the plastic that it's mounted into. So we make the mount metal... and the arm metal... and maybe by then you won't get the heat creeping all the way into it. It's an idea, but it doesn't hold up to the realities of 3D printing.

[@runforitman]

It would be cool if you could designate another 3D model as a purge model So you could do a mechanical part, and an aesthetic part, together And the mechanical part gets the colours purged into it

[@runforitman]

Can you tell i made this comment before watching the video

[@3dpprofessor]

Check out PrintABloks for all your purge waste needs.

[@graxxor]

Seriously, love your tie!!!! What if the printer also cuts the filament some calculated time BEFORE the color change is required, not as it is currently, WHEN the change is required. That way it could predict an extra, say 1cm^2 area printable and continue to print with the colour WHILE it's being purged and the new colour is already loading into the head. Seems a pretty obvious way to reduce the "PURGE" length.

[@3dpprofessor]

A lot of these changes are very small, which would result in a lot of short segments of filament in the feed tube that wouldn't allow them to retract. It could be bad.

[@poorman-trending]

This is like that episode of South Park where they count the number of F bombs, but in this case, we should be counting the number of times that “Purge” is said. Great video though, thank you for your experiments. I’m considering just getting a filament extruded, what are your thoughts on that route?

[@3dpprofessor]

What do you mean by "a filament extruded"? I need more information.

[@next4978]

One idea is to add 4 dynamic nozzles and they should change mechanically

[@3dpprofessor]

So a 4 head 3D printer. So far only Prusa is even trying that.

[@RiverMersey]

New to 3d printing and I've got a Prusa Mk4. Not tried messing with any custom gcodes but, I've asked ChatGPT for help! Arbitrarily, I've told ChatGPT to retract the filament by 1cm, cut it, then advance the filament again by 0.75cm - these numbers will almost certainly need tweaking with experimentations! Here's the result: *** ; G-code for filament color change with retraction and advancement ; Set units to millimeters G21 ; Set absolute positioning mode G90 ; Set initial feed rate F3000 ; Start printing ; Layer 1 G1 Z0.2 ; Move to layer height G1 X10 Y10 ; Move to starting position G1 E10 ; Extrude filament ; Layer 2 G1 Z0.4 ; Move to next layer height G1 X20 Y20 ; Move to next position G1 E20 ; Extrude filament ; Filament color change G1 E9 ; Retract filament by 1 cm G1 E8.25 ; Cut filament G1 E8.25 ; Advance filament by 0.75 cm ; Layer 3 (with new filament color) G1 Z0.6 ; Move to next layer height G1 X30 Y30 ; Move to next position G1 E28.25 ; Extrude new filament ; Continue printing *** In this G-code: Layers 1 and 2 represent the printing process before the filament color change. Before the filament color change command (G1 E9), the filament is retracted by 1 cm (G1 E9), cut (G1 E8.25), and then advanced by 0.75 cm (G1 E8.25). After the filament color change, the printing process continues with layer 3 using the new filament color. You'll need to adjust the X, Y, and Z coordinates, as well as the extrusion amounts (E values), to suit your specific 3D printing project. Additionally, make sure to test the retraction and advancement distances to ensure proper filament handling during the color change process.

[@3dpprofessor]

How you gonna cut on a MK4?

[@RiverMersey]

No idea! Mine can be instructed to release the filament - maybe that's the equivalent of cutting the filament?

[@TheAgame914]

Palette 3 pro

[@luckyshot5135]

I know im at the start of the video nearly BUT theres a method im not sure you mentioned, but swap the filament in the infill? but then it requires space in the infill, so a to small of a space with a filament change wouldn't work.

[@3dpprofessor]

What if your part has very little infill space because they're very small?

[@luckyshot5135]

@@3dpprofessor that'd be the big issue, but if this was done right, for bigger parts it could save a ton of filament.

[@3dpprofessor]

@@luckyshot5135 its definitely model specific and not a general solution.

[@luckyshot5135]

@@3dpprofessor yea but for where it's useful, it'd cut down on waste by hundreds of grams

[@lesterdarke]

I was wondering rather than a purge object could you make a section of an object material neutral. I.e. you might have an object that is big enough that the infill could use the purge waste?

[@3dpprofessor]

Purge to infill is definitely an option.

[@sssiod]

If I select a filament change on my Tenlog TLD3Pro it slowly pushes it forward then quickly extracts the filament all the way back. I always wondered why they made it do that instead of just heating up and pulling out. Wondering does that purge reduction script do that also? Push a little, quickly pull back, cut and then push forward again then extract all the way.

[@3dpprofessor]

The push-then-pull technique is a trick that many of us when we were loading and unloading manually learned to prevent clogs. The melty tip of the plastic tends to swell at the edge of it's heat creep. So if you just pull it back it's sometimes too big to get out of the little feed hole. So instead you push it in a little, insuring it gets a little melty, then pull it out quickly before it can swell. It's one of those best-practice things when unloading.

[@Sebastian198910]

The modified G-Code you used should reduce the waste dramatically. If that’s not the case you did not modify the flushing volumes correctly. With the modified G-Code a 0.35 is always fine and in most cases 0.25 is enough purge.

[@3dpprofessor]

The video was running a bit long, so I couldn't address this. But one problem with the new script is it reduces the purge by a fixed amount, but we're adjusting by a percentage. Meaning sometimes you can reduce by 35% and see it work well, and sometimes it won't. I myself have seen with this reduce script that white to black can be reduced considerably, but black to white has to be reduced a lot less, and for some reason, black to yellow also can only be reduced by about 65% or you still see bleed. The correct answer is for BambuLabs to adopt this script and recalculate the flushing volumes themselves to reduce them all by a fixed amount.

[@stevendaddario8803]

Have you tried adding the command for feeding the filament to his script yet?

[@3dpprofessor]

I have not, mostly because this one works, and I don't want to screw it up with my fumbling. That's why I reached out to the guy who published the script and they made a very interesting point. Maybe if you push still melty filament back *that* could be what causes it to mushroom head. So maybe it's better to leave it out for just a little longer while the filament changes. It's a compelling arguement.

[@TheFeist77]

I want to print some key chains for my sons school band. I want to print in a hard tpu. Any recommendations? I just want them to be durable and not break easily. I will be buying a new bamboo printer for this. Should this work and the newer less expensive bed slinger or the carbon?

[@3dpprofessor]

Bambu prints TPU just fine. As for TPU, I find Polymaker's polyflex works great for most applications. They only have 2 hardnesses, but most of your TPU boils down to how dense you print it, really.

[@1324marcus]

what if u just pull out the filament real slowlike, and let it cool CONSIDERABLY while moving, in the cooling block? might be able to pull out "all" of the fillament, and not even need to cut it, no? 😅

[@3dpprofessor]

Dunno. I trust that the folks at Bambu have already tried every combination. That's why the current version purges really slow.

[@1324marcus]

​@@3dpprofessor well, deppends on what you mean, im sure they didnt try a bunch of things, and probably left alot of other ideas behind, simply cause they wouldnt work with 1 kind of filament, or because they seemed too complicated and might be a waste of time looking into, compared to just looking for the most simplified thing that works with all types of anything... simply cut it, where its garanteed to be cold enough whereas, im pretty darn certain u can remove nearly ALL wasted filament, if u just shape it right, cool it enough and pull it out slowly enough - filament was made by melting it, letting it drip through a (2mm wide nozzle?), and let gravity strech it into 1.75mm - so u just gotta do that, except with the motor pulling it up, and cooling it alot faster than by letting it hang in room temp with no airflow - and then u make a heating chamber with that in mind, so if u really want not waste filament, it will likely hurt the printing speed, cause the heating chamber have to get smaller, to leave less blobs(perhaps even to the point where no blobs get left behind) tho, it ofc deppends alot on how much one wants to do to his printer - could be pretty neat tho, to have an additional printer head lying that has a max print speed of 50mm/s, but also only wastes 5% of what a normal printer would :D

[@jellopoolparty7112]

Can the purge be used as infill?

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes. But infill is minimal, so the effect will be, likewise, minimal.

[@gamedevai]

Is it possible to purge as an infill or a model that say is holding a weapon were the weapon is entirely made from purge material, if this don`t make sense its because I don`t own a 3D printer yet. 😐

[@3dpprofessor]

You can designate any object to be a purge object. See my previous video on this subject (linked in the cards) for an example of this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6TSnJqweb51eLs

[@Crazy_Dave]

The most unnecessary waste is when you're not using the AMS and just prototyping a single object using the same filament each time and it purges every time you start a print. Why can't we have a tick box like we do for bed leveling where we can select skip purge and just go straight to print?

[@3dpprofessor]

Depending on the size of the color changes, the colors would be way off. Like you'd be getting color 3 where color 1 was supposed to be, and by the time you got to the part where color 3 was, you'd still be spitting out 1. But I suppose that would work.

[@MikeDVB]

Another method would be to properly calculate how much more you need of that particular filament before swapping and then doing the swap early - so that the 'purge' is actually used in the part. The end result would be the same, except you wouldn't need to retract and extrude. The risk would be that if you don't calculate it properly you could get color mixing - but that's the risk with any of this... The retraction idea is good - but I think the risk there is hot-end jams/issues - where as you wouldn't have that risk if you were to say swap from the first filament to the second one before the first one is done printing but not so far before it's done that you end up with the transition in your parts. Downside to this would be that I don't think it would be a simple gcode modification for before/after the cut. You would need the slicer itself to calculate when to do the cut earlier.

[@3dpprofessor]

A lot of people are having a similar response this morning, so Imma copy-paste my response to them to save me some time. I had that same thought initially, but it's more complex than it seems at first. First of all you have to stop in the right place to do the cut. But often GCode has long lines be a single command, and what if the optimal place for a cut is in the middle of a long line. Do you stop before doing the line? Do you try to calculate where in the middle of the line to stop? Either way you're adding a new seam, which is unsightly. What if you're adding only small amounts of several different colors, small enough that you actually need to cut for that color, 2 or 3 colors before the last one gets added? That's a lot to coordinate. And you'll need to be sure you haven't missed anything, like the effect of travel moves, or your color could start changing too soon, or too late. And since every color combination needs a different amount of purge, it gets more complicated. Not saying it can't be done. Put enough time and effort into it and anything's possible. But if there's a more simple solution, that's more time they can focus on other things.

[@davidm9545]

Good info thx!

[@MadZaxx]

I will finally be getting a P1S here in the next few weeks and considering the AMS as well. Does anyone here really use it that much? I think I might wait on the ams for now.

[@3dpprofessor]

I mean, I use it a ton, but I recognize I'm in the minority.

[@DJZach22]

One setting you should enable is "purge into infill" (I believe that is the name)

[@3dpprofessor]

Yes, and that's on by default in the script I showed. However, unless your infill is, like, 90% and your model is big, the effect is minimal.

[@IamTristanC]

Will printing multiple of the same objects increase the waste or will it be able to do a single purge for multiple objects?

[@3dpprofessor]

Printing multiple of the same object is a great way to spread your waste out because the amount of waste stays the same.