OLD LIFT MACHINE! inc 'Torpedo' counterweight?

[@elonmask50]

What a fabulous little lift Mr Matt, bottom mount, winding drum, superbly integrated modern controls, a remote counter weight, and it’s absolutely beautiful. I have no idea how you find such things, but, I’m really glad you did, thanks again for all your hard work finding, filming, and producing these amazing lift videos.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

cool, thanks very much Elon (sorry for the very delayed response!)

[@stumpybear60]

This lift is the best ever! The modernizations haven’t taken away it’s charm.

[@ag6371]

Ya still the pulley room is original

[@qeelevators2960]

Sadly the motor is replaced in the 60' probably because it failed!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I agree! Usually I don't film modernised lifts, but the circuit board in the motor room is minimal and the character still remains

[@Ragnar8504]

@@qeelevators2960 It could have been replaced because the power network was converted from DC to AC. That's what happened to nearly every older lift in Vienna, Austria in the 1950s and 60s, except for a few that were abandoned instead or had been abandoned even earlier. I know of a lift (now in a museum) that was installed in the late 1920s and abandoned in 1936 as the owners of the house emigrated to the US. The lift had been retrofitted to the 1840s apartment building only serving one apartment and apparently the new owners didn't bother with the lift. The car was used for storage for decades, until the entrances were plasterboarded over some ten years ago. The lift was a truly odd contraption and I never quite managed to figure out its history. The car was most certainly a ca. 1900 Wertheim built for semi-automatic operator control but the motor, drive and controls were Swiss Schlieren from the second half of the 1920s, if the Wikipedia article is correct 1928 or later.

[@keith800]

Fascinating, I expect the idea of the separate counterweight shafts was to maximise the space available in the main lift shaft as well as being more pleasing to not have an ugly Counterweight going up and down.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yes, I wonder how many new builds would have given up valuable space just to site a counterweight!

[@Ragnar8504]

@@mrmattandmrchay I believe the main point was having the counterweight out of sight in lifts in the middle of the stairs. In Vienna the counterweight was usually outside, in a timber box fixed to the building's rear facade. Some modernisations actually managed to retain that, most cut down the car to free up space for an inside counterweight. When I was a kid in the 1990s my parents rented office space in a pre-WWI building that had an original lift much like this one. The torpedo counterweight ran outside in a timber shaft and for some weird reason that shaft didn't go all the way to the ground. When the car was on the top floor the bottom of the counterweight peeked out of the box! That's why I know it was a torpedo style! Unfortunately, the lift was demolished in 2008. There's a poor video of my last ride on my channel!

[@lzh4950]

Meanwhile the lifts in Singapore Changi Airport's Terminal 1 & Jewel shopping mall have their counterweights covered up in vanity panels probably to make them look less ugly

[@TheTheo58]

very unique traction elevator with the hidden counterweight and 3 sheaves above the shaft. Until I saw part 2 never would have figured it was a basement traction machine. I have come across a modern day overhead traction with a "hidden" counterweight shaft. The hoist way is narrow.

[@peterlomas984]

Nice bit of kit, with a sympathetic upgrade. It's an unusual arrangement although not unique. I would think that there is a lot of rope wear due to the drum drive wrapping and divertor pulleys required. Great video Matt !

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks Pete! Are you still on the same email? I was wondering if you could help me with a few questions?

[@BlackstoneGangster]

Thx 4 explaining - you may remember the old bottom drive lift with its counterweight in a seperat shaft I filmed. Was wondering why they didn't just used a usual motor, now I know why ;)

[@DieselDucy]

I love your videos! This is a great video. Thanks for sharing! Hope to meet you someday.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Hi Andrew, sorry it's taken me a while to respond. I like to respond to everyone, but I have a backlog that goes back a year or more now! It's an impossible task! Yeah that'd be great. We missed the opportunity when we went to Florida a few years ago, but we were there on holiday so I wouldn't have been popular to ship everyone up to (where was it, Georgia?) to meet you. Hopefully we'll cross paths at some stage! By the way, I've mentioned your Patreon on my latest video (keyring giveaway). From this video I've received quite a few emails from deserving people - very humbling. I'll see how this goes, but are you interested if I send some of these out to you? I will of course first have to get loads more off Dewhurst - if they agree.

[@archierhodes5543]

Awesome! Winding drum applications are sometimes hard to visualize but you did a great job with a perfect example.

[@thedim900conf]

That was definitely unique. Really cool thanks for the video.

[@38911bytefree]

One of the best vids. Very interesting lift. Really the went nuts to install the lift in such small place. VERY CLEVER. As others sadi, modernization didnt took the character out. But this has to be with such a confined space, that other solutions wont fit or require building modifications. I think it is on France some parts (historc buildings) are not allowed to carry modifications, so you came with crazy solutions like that that are really unique. Not the place for the average generics. I would prefer not VFD, just let the motor as is. Realys would have been fantastic.

[@Ragnar8504]

You wouldn't believe some of the spaces pre-WWI architects shoehorned lifts into, and I mean in new builds! I've seen lift cars that fit three people - standing in a row, with the door on one of the short ends! Square cars, rectangular, rectangles with two corners trimmed off, oval, oblong - you name it!

[@lzh4950]

Am thinking how difficult it is to clean the torpedo tube where the counterweight goes into, to prevent dust buildup

[@MichalM]

One of your most interesting videos yet, many thanks for uploading!

[@abpsd73]

Very interesting lift for sure.

[@Bernardbrp]

great educational content, thanks for your dedication!

[@danielrichardbond]

Great couple of videos Matt. Very interesting. I think the smaller diversion pulleys are called vibrating sheaves? Maybe that’s an Americanism but I’ve seen them called that a few times. Again, great video.

[@misterwint]

Love it! Thanks for another great video.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks Chris

[@dykodesigns]

Very neat way to conceal the counterweight! It's tucked away into it's own little shaft. The downside, it's hard to inspect eventhough it has an inspection door at the bottom floor. Typical architects solution, neat but not very practical. We have a similair corner shaft along the stairs in our own house, the plumbing downpipe from the bathroom is hidden there but it makes the stairs more narrow as it's a stair with bottom corner. In dutch houeses space comes at a premium, the toilet is also located under the stairs...... the downpipe has a short conncection. I'd imagine it be difficult to install a counterweight in such a narrow shaft that's very inaccessible.

[@Techno-Universal]

Also old mine shaft lifts and funicular railways/lifts most commonly use drum drive systems and don’t have counter weights! :)

[@mrmattandmrchay]

yes, good observation! I'm always thinking 'what if' the machine gearing broke and such a lift went into free fall without a counterweight! Scary!

[@Techno-Universal]

mrmattandmrchay Yup like there’s a couple of old gold rush era mines in the state of Victoria in Australia that are open as tourist attractions that still have and sometimes even use their original drum drive trolly lifts that go extremely fast because of how deep the shafts are! The lifts also all only have single cables but also have mechanical safety break systems on them like Otis’s safety elevator system so you would most likely be okay if the cable happened to break! :)

[@ag6371]

10:21 looks like a Schindler because of the hand winding wheel and original floor selector

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yes, I didn't mention this in the video, but Schindler was very popular around this time.

[@ZZ9ProductionsOFFICIAL]

interesting that the counterweight has got no guide tracks in its...uhhh "mini-shaft" i guess you could call it?

[@fluffyshabba6423]

Great video from a talented creator!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

thank you :) :)

[@ag6371]

How do they maintain the counterweight? Are there any access doors to the counterweight shaft?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

It's here... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpi9koSwmdl9rbs

[@pandabaerhellas]

😍 i love this beautiful elevator with

[@RODALCO2007]

Very interesting and unusual design. Thanks for the video, Matt.

[@Lift.Tracker]

Great video! I was there for the premiere, but annoyingly I couldn’t comment for some reason!

[@Lift.Tracker]

4:52 Does that counterweight not have guide rails? It looks like it’s swinging around a bit.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yes it does, but they are cables not rails... look at 4:48, you can see then left/right. And 5:53 you can see where they are attached at the top

[@benmarks2471]

Hi Matt, gorgeous piece of engineering - thanks for the upload. I might be overlooking something obvious here but is there not a governor system to prevent a free fall? I don't like the look of those ropes in the counterweight shaft...

[@psirvent8]

You're right, no governor ! However there is still a emergency brake under the car except that it will only trip if the actual traction ropes do snap which as french lift engineers say pretty much never happens. Most lift overspeeds and "falls" do occur because of the main gears breaking inside the "gearbox" or even the ropes slipping on the motor sheave and in those cases the overspeed governor and safety gear are indeed useful. Wonder what would happen with this lift... (But regarding the brake, since this lift does have a counterweight [Most counterweights are actually heavier than the empty lift car] if the brake were to slip the car would go up at high speed and crash into the ceiling. Yes emergency brakes and governors designed to control overspeed in the up direction aswell as down do exist but tbh I haven't seen a single lift with one of those installed. In fact it will only become compulsory on new installations but not before 2022 I think. So even modern lifts up to this day in France do have overspeed governors and safety gears but only for the down direction.)

[@The_Light_Project]

This is so interesting and exciting! Awesome presentation of the details!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Cool, thank you! Mission accomplished! :)

[@ag6371]

Where is the floor selector which the vanes activate?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Replaced to the circuit board on the wall, near the end of the video, but the wheel was left in place for the final stop switches

[@jackal58590]

Divertor wheels,with old” Stauffer” grease cups.

[@jackal58590]

A good adaptation for this building,gave the install crew a few headaches I bet!

[@SamSitar]

your explanations are very thorough.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks :)

[@Kasi11]

Hi, does there exist some wirering diagramms for an relay lift controller, because I want to build one?

[@Ragnar8504]

There's a German 1913 book for lift designers and installers that does contain schematics for a relay controller! It's available on Google Books and called "Handbuch für den Aufzugsbauer" or something like that.

[@Alexis_du_60]

That's probably the first time that I see a winding drum lift with a torpedo counterweight, I've seen one like this in a old hospital, but it did not have a counterweight. This lift/elevator that I saw had some differences though, notably the motor was on top, t'was a slip-ring motor as well, I could definitely see the rings sticking out of the rotor (they were exposed outside of the motor probably to make maintenance easier), the controller was your average 1940's relay logic controller but with mercury (!!!) relays. On the bottom you had all the sheaves, and you could see that a counterweight was planned but was never installed, instead they had ran cables in the shaft where the "torpedo" would have been. There was also a second lift/elevator like that in the other wing of this hospital, same as the first one but it had a counterweight this time, and the motor was at the top as well. I wonder why they went with a winding drum while they could have went with a regular motor. Looking back at it, I wish I could have taken pictures, but unfortunately that hospital has been since sealed up and is slated for demolition (when I visited it, it was in the process of being decommissioned, I was lucky to have been allowed there in the first place), both elevator/lifts were still 100% original, untouched since they were installed in 1947. Only modifications that they got was some of the mercury relays that were replaced by solid state relays... I don't think I'll ever find another one like those two.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Interesting stuff! Yeah, the number of motor rooms I went into before youtube started - wished I'd done some filming but then, for what purpose? It would have felt weird!

[@Alexis_du_60]

@@mrmattandmrchay in a way I feel like filming old motor rooms "just in case" it gets modernized, but that's just my humble opinion.

[@qeelevators2960]

mrmattandmrchay - do you have a estimate of how many motor rooms that you’ve seen?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

@@qeelevators2960 For my job, back from 1995 until about 2008, I used to go in one every 2 weeks (on average). Now I've changed job positions, it's slightly less, but still I'd say about 1 per month. Add this up and it equals, 324. But then add on all the motor rooms I've visited 'outside' my main job for youtube (I mean 'special' visits to like, derelict sites and other things that I've arranged. This must be about 100? So an estimate is "about" 400!

[@qeelevators2960]

mrmattandmrchay - I have only seen 28 or 27. (Don’t trust that I will update that.) But I’ve only been going in them for 6 months.

[@CindyBradyTooh]

*FASCINATING!* :D ~Cindy! :)

[@feli0999]

Hi! I was in the live stream.

[@Lighting_Desk]

Such a beautiful piece of engineering

[@jmatx]

If the motor room is at the top, the combined weight of the car plus the counterweight pull downward on the equipment, making it easy to secure. In this case, however, the combined weight of the car and counterweight pull upward on the drum, making it essential that the drum be securely embedded in the floor.

[@qeelevators2960]

You need to use music by Curved Mirror

[@paulchurch3444]

Really really interesting Thank you 🙏

[@zordmaker]

I can't begin to imagine what a royal PITA this must be to maintain.

[@psirvent8]

Why do I only see the video now while it already has been uploaded 2 days ago ?

[@ag6371]

Finally!

[@Macintoshiba]

Accessing the "Torpedo" for maintenance must be a massive pain

[@tizutitandula5638]

2:10 which music, mrmatt? Thanks

[@qeelevators2960]

Hold on

[@qeelevators2960]

the theatrical poster for poltergeist iii

[@scair7331]

God the racket the counter weight would make it if something made it start swinging

[@Alexis_du_60]

Afaik the counterweight should be guided by rails, so the chances of it swinging are slim to none.

[@scair7331]

@@Alexis_du_60 yep your right, went back and watched the video again and theres that one rail on the inside corner

[@Alexis_du_60]

@@scair7331 I'd imagine that a swinging counterweight could do some hefty damage.

[@ag6371]

Quite an interesting winding drum elevator

[@Bombiedude.]

wow really neat piece of machinery quite a work of engineering art if you ask me

[@vancouverelevators_transit]

I haven’t watched ur vids in a while and I’m happy to be back

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Cool glad you're back also :)

[@psirvent8]

Still wondering why they call the sheave room a "motor room" as the sign on the door mentions... Ce n'est pas une machinerie mais bien un local des poulies au 6ème étage de cet hôtel parisien

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Was probably an 'off the shelf sign', else they'd have to get a special sign made up and more expensive.

[@psirvent8]

@@mrmattandmrchay Thank's for the reply !

[@pandabaerhellas]

Service-friendly machine

[@memy66]

This reminds me of the fight scene in diamonds are forever

[@prijesi]

Elevators never stop amazing ......very nice 👍🏼

[@prijesi]

VERNONBLVJSCSONAVUNE On the 7 train and 6 train Elevato**

[@ag6371]

Place a camera in the pulley room and another in the machine room then we can see the motor running when you are in the elevator

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Not that easy, as the lift was out of action when I filmed the motor room

[@ag6371]

@@mrmattandmrchay I'm saying about the multi-camera views

[@mrmattandmrchay]

@@ag6371 would have loved to! This would have made the video perfect, unfortunately I can't always get when I come for (it does really annoy me though, multicamera with motor room would have been PERFECT!)

[@laceybarbee5553]

I've never heard of a cylindrical counterweight. Is this the only elevator with a cylindrical counterweight, or are there more?

[@dominikkarkowski]

SO I WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE WINDING DRUM! Hahaha

[@steveroy6334]

A lot of rouge on those ropes

[@psirvent8]

What do you mean by rouge ? (Rouge is the french for red and these ropes look anything but red to me...)

[@peterlomas984]

There is but i would think that it is only surface rouge due to the enclosed environment of the counterweight shaft. I don't think its coming from the rope core or you would see evidence of it on other sections of the rope.

[@caroleast9636]

Carol Otis Rouge is a sign of rust in the rope core and definitely a warning sign to maintenance engineers!

[@peterlomas984]

@@caroleast9636 That is absolutely true, but we are not in a position to inspect those ropes and can only rely on the video evidence. In all my years as an engineer i took every incident as being an individual case and not generic. In some cases the rouge is only surface discolorment and is not being extruded from the rope core. Looking at those ropes (be it not a close inspection) i would suspect that the rouge is caused by lack of rope lubrication and could be treated accordinglyI only come to that conclusion because the rouging is in a non working part of the rope if you understand what i mean by that.

[@asetatlikalem]

10:19 this motor looks like a schindler D series one but with a drum attached

[@ALANSWEETIES99]

Pretty interesting this motoring it is... Hey, tell me, how old this lift machinery since is?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I recon, 1950s/60? An educated guess!

[@peterdeutscher1442]

@@mrmattandmrchay Wow! Is pretty oldest motoring to create this vintage elevator since it is. Great to find.

[@Sirenenwolfi]

Is it known what the original lift motor was of technology? The lift itself seems to be from the 1920s (or even earlier?), the machinery is a modern 3-phase AC motor, but maybe the old original lift motor was a DC engine? (perhaps supplied by an old DC mains of 110 or 220 VDC?)

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I have no idea, but the buildings in the area have been around for at least that long, so you could well be right.

[@Goasler]

4:50min BLOW MY MIND ...never saw something like that...

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yeah, that was a really cool find!

[@fischhead2]

is it only me or isnt the cable which the counterweight is attached to looking too healthy?

[@peterlomas984]

It's only you.

[@ag6371]

10:48 Does the counterweight shaft go into the machine room?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Good question and I think the HOLE for the counterweight DOES go beneath the ground floor, so that it can be re-roped when the lift is on the top floor - you can get to the top of it. But I don't think you can see the counterweight whilst in the basement.

[@the486kgman2]

mrmattandmrchay 2:34 what’s the music called

[@donalddavis581]

WOW!! look at the rust on those hoist cables!

[@peterlomas984]

It's NOT rust it is surface rouge, it is not uncommon on hoisting ropes and can be treated using rope lubricant which is widely used in the lift industry where some of the operating environments can be quite harsh.

[@Easterbunny1972]

The gearbox looks like a Schindler W140

[@clunkonester4884]

Do you need to put extremely creepy music? And nice videos! keep up the good work!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I always choose music to match the scene. There isn't a lot of other music that would match, or detract from the video content.

[@clunkonester4884]

@@mrmattandmrchay Ok, thank you for the explanation!

[@riccardodestefanis2217]

That was not the motor room as there was no motor and/or relay cabinet. The machine room was DOWN UP (where you went) there is the sheave room

[@abderrahmaneadjimi1320]

👍👍👍

[@darrenevans7670]

Cheers

[@DanielMeakin1]

In boots the lift is near the stairs and not the stairs next to the escalator. I'm sad because I can't record any bus povs for buses in eingland so I have to other things

[@vancouverelevators_transit]

So this was a Schindler?

[@Trootsbloxplayzthemetalfan]

What is the intro music?

[@oreoofficial97]

noooooooooooo missed it i was busy with music stuf

[@CinemaSpecialEffects]

WARNING at 12:28 ... symbol indicating the presence of ASBESTOS (the sticker with the "A" on the machine)

[@Goasler]

ah, a new Video! Let me prepare something to drink, a piece of cake and full screen, now lets start the Video :D

[@mrmattandmrchay]

cool, hope you liked it!

[@asetatlikalem]

Guy that restored this lift knows if he restore it too modern the mrmatt will git hım

[@joaquinfernandesgarcia996]

The actual machine is down in the basement

[@vancouverelevators_transit]

Interesting....

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yeah, very interesting lift his one!

[@zakksrage]

The cable is looking a little worse for wear

[@darrenevans7670]

I'm dismantling a old 600 kg otis lift about 100 years old any suggestions

[@darrenevans7670]

Cut all services from above dropped weights but it seems most of the workings are above car roof

[@jamesmccloud3916]

Look like it's time for cable job all that Rouge

[@peterlomas984]

NOT excessive at all.

[@imaperson9693]

YEET!

[@ridvanmertmert9543]

çok uğraşmişlar

[@ZLDSmogless]

Nooooooooo! Mechanical floor selector wheel! Why computer, why!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

yes, it was great to see this was left here, and it's still in use for the overrun! I kind of knew this would be modernised before I entered.

[@ZLDSmogless]

@@mrmattandmrchay shame

[@GiorgosKaoustos]

#TheLiftDragon ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@calebandasher4515]

no

[@cristianghidireac7628]

Third

[@tizutitandula5638]

4

[@elixier33]

You keep going on about quality over quantity. If you want quality can we have some higher grade decent 4k footage? I enjoy your channel but it's still basic HD doesn't do your work any justice.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

You're referring to a video that's nearly 3 years ago, using a GoPro that was not capable of 4K. So that's a little unfair to start with. Whilst others are recording in 4K, then putting that footage directly to the timeline, I am not. My videos are different and involve multiple layers on the Premiere timeline (see 0:10 - 9 separate layers to do this, actually it's 10 if you include the logo in the corner). Recording all this and editing it in 4K pushes my laptop to the limit and creates an uneditable project when I add layers. I use a laptop as this is all I have when I'm away, and this is the only spare time I get to edit such videos. This is not my full time job. I have absolutely no plans to record in 4K. My latest videos are recorded in 2704x1520 (2.7K) and I've had no-one ever comment on this before. My 'quality not quantity' moto relates the amount of content that goes into my videos, planning, animations, scripted voiceovers, and editing which takes months not weeks.

[@akunsaya6538]

first

[@tizutitandula5638]

No

[@qeelevators2960]

At least say that your early instead

[@tikbugzz152]

Why do people say first it doesn’t mean that they are special

[@tizutitandula5638]

@@tikbugzz152 yes, right.

[@firesurfer]

Drums were used on World Trade Center. They found them in the debris and are on display in the memorial museum at the site. The motor and drums were one unit. From Wikimedia Commons ''New York City 05 - Elevator motor from World Trade Center.jpg'' technically it's a sheave, not a drum.