Did the TURN BACK THE PENDULUM ARC Have the STRONGEST Gotei 13 in Bleach? | Discussion

How strong was the Gotei 13 of 100 years ago? Are the Captains and Vice-Captains of the Past Arc the strongest of the series? Let's compare and discuss!
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Beware manga spoilers in this video!
Hey everyone! Hope you're all doing great.
To kickstart this week, we've got a slightly longer video - a look at the mysterious Gotei 13 of Turn Back the Pendulum, the Past Arc! Over the years, we've looked in-depth at both the End of Series Gotei and the Gotei of the Soul Society Arc, and now it's time for the Past Arc.
How powerful is the Gotei 13 when both Kisuke and Aizen are in the top brass? How much does it matter that so many of these characters are virtual unknowns to us? Let's take a look!
Enjoy!
Chapters:
Intro - 00:00
First impressions - 05:52
Line-up first half - 07:40
Line-up second half - 18:40
Conclusion - 30:33
#bleach #bleachanime #bleachmanga #bankai #bleachdiscussion #aizen
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[@MrTommo2304]

So, how does the Gotei 13 line-up of the Past Arc compare to the others we see in Bleach? We've already looked at the End of Series Gotei and the Soul Society Arc iteration previously, so now it's the time of Kisuke and Aizen! Does it stack up, or are there simply too many unknowns? Let me know your thoughts!

[@jameso5640]

Mr Tommo. Love your analysis as always, I have one point I wanted to bring up. You repeatedly mentioned that leaders of noble houses were reserved for the most gifted of shinigami. Yet captains like zaracki and toshiro are arguably more talented but came from lesser backgrounds. I’d also argue soifon is a prodigy considering her young age and what she’s been able to do so far, and when her bankai fully develops I’m sure she will become stronger. Would you not agree?

[@BeemaSteama]

Can we get a Captain Tommo bankai analysis?

[@richard_n]

Until we know the powers and abilities of the original Gotei 13, we can't say any following ones are better. Yhwach says they are the strongest and he would probably know.

[@yojoe8599]

​@@richard_nwell said, I have more questions about the original gotei 13 squad and the tease we got in the anime didn't help. Plus so many Captain bankai we never saw 😔

[@dgalloway107]

The era of the blondies.

[@Psychoveliatonet]

I love MrTommo's descent into outright calling the Vizards disappointments in his first impression. My man speaks TRUTH.

[@brokenmask333]

I just realized that by the end of the arc the soul society is at its weakest. They lost 6 captains in one day, 7 if you include the captain of the kido corps

[@MrTommo2304]

Absolutely, I'd have loved to have seen the aftermath of that.

[@brokenmask333]

@@MrTommo2304 and without a squad 10 captain they were at less than half a full roster of captains

[@texcorps9432]

You know that boy Yama was stressing

[@rukiakuchiki2022]

7 captains? which ones?

[@brokenmask333]

@@rukiakuchiki2022 Shinji, Love, Rose, Kensei became hollowfied. Kisuke and Tessai were banished. Yoruichi left with Kisuke.

[@CaptainKotetsu]

This arc showed how extremely easy it is to frame, manipulate and control members of the gotei 13. It really isn’t that surprising when you look at the events of the soul society arc; it doesn’t take much to make soul reapers turn on eachother.

[@allworksnew]

More like how dumb central 46 is. A bunch of goofs controling the SS

[@lordaizen6815]

Yes, I agree completely with your statement, Captain Kotetsu.

[@allworksnew]

You mean manipulate weak ass central 46

[@allworksnew]

You mean how dumb and unreliable central 46 is

[@Therius]

I think without all of the scheming and betrayal, nearly every version of the Gotei would be a powerhouse if they could just work together for once 😂

[@Snzn18]

I mean that is just basic government bodies innit.

[@LupineShadowOmega]

@@Snzn18 More so here. Because Squads have to literally hide their abilities from one another and it doesn't look like they even have inter squad training or wargames. Most armed forces can at least train together or count on each other for backup. Not so for the Gotei.

[@Mooinator3000]

It makes me hopeful for the future of the gotei. While there are some captains now that aren't too impressive, I feel that with Kyoraku at the helm and after working together through a devastating war, they're more likely to be working together properly

[@Snzn18]

@@LupineShadowOmega I mean you have to consider that the reason why progress also feel so stale with the Gotei is that every people there are gonna live for centuries. If you had watch Frieren, you can expect a regular soul Reaper to have the same mindset when it comes to time like Frieren. They won't mind doing things and finishing them for many years. Of course with the exception of things that they need immediate action like a dealing with a villain that might end the world. And of course the Gotei is still under the rule of central 46, a corrupt noble government that won't let Gotei grow wiser and powerful enough that they might overthrow central 46

[@NeufAtora]

It'd be interesting to see your perfect line up, choosing from all available characters from any time period shown

[@Purriah]

Yama, Yuroichi, Kisuke, Aizen, Gin, Juushiro, Shunsui, Byakuya, Hitsugaya, Kenpachi, Unohana, Mayuri, Hikifune probably. As far as people whose power we know, and who we know where at least at one point part of the gotei 13. Probably no way around that.

[@thegr8rome]

@@Purriah that would cause some issues with who goes in what squad. You chose 3 different characters all in squad 12 (mayuri, urahara, hikifune)

[@NeufAtora]

@@Purriah I don't necessarily mean the strongest, though you could certainly look at it that way. I just meant who you'd like to see be the line up of captains and vice captains. I hadn't thought of this originally, but I guess you wouldn't have to put the characters in the divisions they originally came from.

[@marceloasensiofilho3833]

The closer to his prime Yamamoto the better it is for soul society. With him a century closer to his prime it helps a whole lot

[@hanzgolden]

Prime Yama is not Yama from a thousand years ago, Prime Yama is arguably the one on FKT

[@marceloasensiofilho3833]

@@hanzgolden I see your point but disagree. Yamamoto was already older at that moment. His prime is probably a century or 2 after his first war with the quincy

[@BeemaSteama]

Yamamoto’s bankai is more powerful in TYBW than it was 1000 years ago. The only reason he was weaker is because he refused to have his arm healed. So soul society and arancar arc Yama should be stronger than first blood war

[@Daruno]

@@BeemaSteama only bc he showed his bankai in the TYBW doesnt mean that he didnt had it at that level 100 years ago, and with his two hands is stronger as Yhwach stated, so every iteration of Yamamoto before loosing a arm should be stronger, if maybe over 500 year have passed after the end of the war (idk how many time took him to master his bankai)

[@Pengu386]

@@Daruno that is 100% true while yama had more control it is highly likely he’s much stronger in every other iteration

[@AlexKlindt]

Honestly, imagine if the Wandenreich attacked during Turn Back the Pendulum. A less restrained Yamamoto, Urahara and Aizen on a united front. Heck, Kurotsuchi is there too.

[@Nova6q6]

They would have died almost instantly if the Wandenreich attacked during the TBP. They were sooooooo weak then.

[@soulreaperslayer1946]

Don’t forget Yoruichi as Captain would have less restraints in an attack on SS… They would’ve gotten bodied. Yhwach prob would have had to call in the Royal Guard.

[@Nova6q6]

@@soulreaperslayer1946 and if he did they are all dead…. Instantly. Aizen isn’t akin to a GOD yet, and the majority of the caps are super weak. Ichigo in TYBW is stronger than 70% of the Gotei 13 in TBP alone. They don’t have kenpachi, of which would 1 shot almost all of the caps in TBP, mature Toshiro solos most of TBP alone, they don’t have Mayuri who was probably the most instrumental part of the gotei winning in TYBW, and Byakuyas power up made him top 5.

[@soulreaperslayer1946]

@@Nova6q6 that’s the thing though. As I said in another comment Byakuya and Tosh would prob get bodied as they didn’t have their full potential unlocked until TYBW. Also Mayrui was around and very active back then as he was Kisuke’s lieutenant.

[@Nova6q6]

@@soulreaperslayer1946 but the difference in power of those fighting in TYBW is exponentially higher then TBP. Yamma barely beat Aizen when he had the original gotei 13 in his prime, and Ywach didn’t have All mighty.

[@ultimate7131]

6th division be running on that nepotism

[@kevintanza6968]

In their defense, Byakuya led by example. And Ginrei seems that he was that way too.

[@isaaccook1890]

Kiganjo seems like the type to employ a literal servant as a 2nd seat rather than someone with actual power.

[@Kubinda12345]

The greatest problem with evaluation of most versions of Gotei 13 is how you evaluate AIzen and co. E.g. in this version Aizen was a lieutenant seemingly with lieutenant's powers but in reality he was one of the top powers but also someone who was sabotaging the Gotei 13. Tosen and Ichimaru are similar cases.

[@antoj.5119]

I always thought he was already almost base Aizen at that point and was fooling everyone.

[@sipenarekbecha7193]

Strongest LIEutenant NGL 😏

[@LupineShadowOmega]

I'm not sure that is completely true. We see Shinji and Aizen having a constant battle of wits and power...so even before Aizen stopped pretending, I'm not sure he has seemingly a lieutenant's power. Shinji always suspected he was stronger than he was letting on...he just was wrong to the degree that Aizen was lying. We have a literal demonstration of this when Aizen gets his veil torn away by a Shinji that realizes he's there all along.

[@_Zephster]

I think ichimaru might have been in a similar situation as hitsugaya where his body wasn't strong enough to handle his bankai so his bankai might have been weaker.

[@HenhousetheRed]

The vizard captains keep ending up as fodder for Kubo to showcase the current arc antagonist is a threat to the Gotei 13. Aizen, the Espada, and the Sternritter. If there is a Hell Arc, I fully expect the vizard captains will fill this role for a 4th time.

[@Psychoveliatonet]

So it has been spoken, so please let it be so. I wish nothing more than for the Vizards to let me down one last time.

[@Prushinthespirit]

Gotei seems to follow the same tendency as an Espada, where captain members leave their predecessors far behind. The way it was shown made it look like vizards' hollow masks were the only way that allowed them to make up for a difference in everything else. Like, when they're always ones going down and putting up the least of a fight, it makes trying to justify them being in Gotei much harder.

[@maxonbardo]

It's worth wondering how good they were at their divisions specific seireitei tasks. Like Kensei and Mashiro were NOT doin all that journalism business

[@aarons6935]

Chojiro got done so criminally dirty.

[@codysing1223]

Mr Tommo is the strongest.

[@ComunCoutinho]

I had completely forgotten the 10th Division captain died. All these years, I always assumed his absence was Isshin being spoiler-tagged.

[@ComicCrossing]

Yeah I do think that is the case but with that extra level of deniability so they didnt have to show Isshin. Who I imagine was likely running the 10th at the time as the Vice Captain but seeing him acting as Acting Captain wouldve been a spoiler. So presumably Isshin was refusing the promotion at the time. Or perhaps he hadnt achieved Bankai yet so he wasnt eligible but they were keeping the spot open for him and leaving him as Acting Captain until he could officially become Captain.

[@Lupinemancer87]

It still baffles me that Kubo did not make Love regain his position as Captain of Squad 7 after the events of TYBW. Don't get me wrong, I like Iba, he was pretty cool, for what little we saw of him, but the other three former Vizard Captains got their positions back and the only reason Love did not was that it was still occupied by Komamura. Even Lisa was made a Captain after TYBW, but not Love. Poor guy. Also, isn't it possible that Isshin was the Captain of Squad 10 back 100 years ago, even if we weren't told? Remember he is the uncle of Kaien, Kukaku and Ganju, so he's technically older then them, and would have been a captain for a while back when we first saw him as such.

[@donbilligatti3004]

Turn back the Pendulum is such an awesome arc. Loved it

[@CROW6487]

Captain tommo back at it with goated post's

[@wirelessmikepc789]

Don't forget that the kido corps of this time has Tessai and Hachi and loses BOTH after this. Obviously we don't know anything about the officers of the kido corps in any of the other time periods, but I do think they are worth some consideration.

[@WanderTheNomad]

This video was only talking about the Gotei 13 tho

[@pamelaguerra3768]

i mean i guess you could take them into account in the 10|th div's place, but if you do then they deffinitely fall short compared to hitsugaya and matsumoto

[@rashidkopar6297]

Your diction is spectacular. Always making things sound fascinating

[@KipC-Sway]

9:22 I very much agree with you here. 2nd division seemed a good bit stronger in this era than in the soul society arc when we first met them.

[@MrAxedead]

I know he is a non-canon character only appearing in the anime, but perhaps Maki Ichinose was the 11th division Lieutenant, the wiki states that his position was unknown but seeing his reaction at the death of his Captain, I'd like to think he was the Lieutenant before being replaced by Yachiru.

[@viniciuslopez6830]

If there ever is a Hell Arc, I really wish we get to see a full Shinji battle, where he doesn't explain to the enemy how sakanade works. If he just keeps his mouth shut, his enemy would have a harder chance to figure it out. He's already shown he can be really useful in support, as seen in the arrancar arc (where he stayed behind when all captains and vizards were going after Aizen, activating sakanade at the very last second when Hitsugaya stabbed "Aizen's" back) and in the novel when Hisagi was facing Tokinada (which was central in defeating the villain).

[@GodOfWar187]

Remember when Kubo said he'd reveal the secret of what happened to the 10th division captain from TBTP in the TYBW arc and then nothing came of it? Sure would like an answer on that.

[@Purriah]

I’m guessing that would be whoever was before isshin

[@VictorNedochetko]

I love when KZbin suggests MrTommo's videos, even more when it just released

[@philliphicks8746]

There's a good argument for strongest, but doesn't necessarily mean most capable. Can't wait to watch

[@joshuasimire1404]

This!!!!! This is the comment!

[@ez_is_bloo]

Wdym?

[@xnovablud2497]

@@ez_is_bloo Yammy is strong, too bad he's dumb

[@ez_is_bloo]

@@xnovablud2497 why does that matter if you can outspeed and oneshot someone

[@philliphicks8746]

​@ez_is_bloo when you're talking about exponentially stronger, then it becomes less relevant. But when you're relative, it makes all the difference in the world

[@everythingmetal9400]

I just wanted to say thank MrTommo for keeping us all fed with all this Bleach content as we wait for core 3.

[@netebom]

Even though we saw Maki Ichinose who greatly despised Zaraki Kenpachi for defeating Giganjo, it seems that his brief moment was simply erased away by Kubo who dismissed the Bounts arc as non-cannon.

[@Gravy_Jones22]

Hachigen being a complete beast sort of makes up for Kubo hating every other Vaizard. I don't think anyone else could have taken down Barragan.

[@lloydthesage1164]

Well explained my friend

[@LeoLikesLamb]

Your videos butter My biscuits thank you

[@jonathonbanyon94]

Love the channel. Keep it coming. 💯

[@skyreapery2n164]

Mr Tommo please make a video on Ichigo abilities and possible abilities... For example if he used tge cloth on Zangetsu... How in his Vasto Lorde form he used Telekinesis on Zangetsu zanpakuto

[@djuvensbelaire9132]

One of the things I would want to see between the captains would be friendly competition. Like each captain have something they are known for, Mayuri would be brain, the deceased Komamura would be pure strength, Kenpachi would be destructive power. I would want them to have a competition excluding the head captain and maybe Mayuri to see who's stronger. that would push them to want to keep improving even tho they're already captains. Same would go for the vice-captains too.

[@ftsvectors2164]

Something else I feel should be noted is that Kisuke at this time is not as good as the Kisuke later. The reason Kisuke is selected as he is for War Potential is because of his incalculable tricks. Being able to read the battlefield and successfully deduce where it could potentially head. The Kisuke of now is less level headed and less jaded. Which I believe play a major factor in his strength later. Affecting his decision making. This Kisuke is worried Hiyori was gonna get hurt. Later Kisuke sent kids, and even later, some best friends to their potential death and didn’t even bat an eye. Honestly, I’d place this Kisuke around Soul Society Mayuri.

[@Purriah]

To be fair, not sending them meant letting Aizen win, dooming everyone as far as he knew

[@davidwhidden9337]

Outside of the first Gotei 13, I would say yes.

[@deaggravv]

There are no enough statements and feats that you can put first Gotei13 higher than series beginning Gotei13. The thing about original Gotei13 is they're just bloody criminals. They fought against fodder quincies and won. I can list some reasons for why first anime Gotei13 is stronger than original Gote13. Firstly, Yamamoto got a lot stronger. In one of Kubo's Q&A, it's confirmed that Sasakibe's backstab was one of the main factor that led Yhwach's defeat and in the first cour of TYBW we also saw shikai Yamamoto was strong enough to defeat Royd who had %70 to %80 of base Yhwach's power. Please don't say "Base Yhwach would've won against Yamamoto" no he wouldn't. You probably know that Simo Urahara makes videos about Kubo's Q&A and one of his video was about this topic. According to this video, Kubo said shikai Yamamoto was enough to win Royd fight, Yamamoto just went bankai because he wanted to see Yhwach's despair. This statement alone is way greater than entire original Gotei13 because we know young Yamamoto couldn't win this fight on his own. Secondly, this Gotei have Aizen, I think there is no need to explain this. Moreover, this Gotei13 also have an amazing support, Unohana. You don't need extra firepower when you have Yamamoto on your side. You just need to support him and Unohana can do that for you. Since we don't know much about original Gotei13 captains, I highly doubt they can survive from this fight.

[@joaquincortescasas8114]

The inclusion of Urahara and Yoruichi does buff them. But the lack of Kenpachi, 10th division captain and/or Isshin, Komamura (human form), and Byakuya makes them overall way weaker. 4 very strong captains missing (including no 10th division captain) in place of 2. Ain't a good trade imo. I also wouldn't count Aizen, Gin, and Tousen as ""part of the gotei 13"" since they don't have big roles that place them in the spotlight when needed, wasting their potential if SS got attacked at that time. I just really think no Kenpachi, Byakuya, and 10th division captain kills their ranking. If Yhwach invaded right there, they would be fucked if Yamamoto falls down. No Mayuri/Nemu is also a big deal, considering he was the MVP at TYBW when Soul Society would've lost the war without his intervention, since he saved 3 zombified captains and was the only duo who could've defeated Kenpachi amped Pernida.

[@_Zephster]

Wouldn't right before turn back the pendulum be stronger because it would have hikifune alongside the rest of turn back the pendulum

[@_Zephster]

Unless you say mayuri is worth more than hikifune which I could see

[@Seven_DB]

@@joaquincortescasas8114 I disagree. If Yhwach were to invade any Gotei besides the ones he actually did, this one has the best shot Kisuke and Aizen can end the war at any moment with the Hogyoku. Obviously there's a time discrepancy on Yhwach's power in general but let's say he operates on the same time frame as in the TYBW. He won't have access to the Almighty for a few days at least. If Aizen fuses with the Hogyoku the war is won, Yhwach without the Almighty has no way to stop him. Even with it, Kyokasuigetsu can counter it so as long as he doesn't absorb the Soul King, Aizen should actually be stronger. Even disregarding Hogyoku shenanigans, Aizen, Kisuke, Shunsui, and Yamamoto is a dangerous quadrio to all be operating at once. They are definitely taking down almost every strenritter. Without the Hogyoku I don't see them actually winning the war, but they get pretty damn far

[@animanco6833]

With a majority of the captains being the soon to be vizards during that time, I don't think so especially since they don't have good track record of victory. I mean Shinji meant be the only exception.

[@marctm7614]

There's also the fact that modern day characters are just stronger, like Urahara and Yoruichi - who both made massive improvements to their powers over the course of the series.

[@jakefelty4877]

Have you thought about making a video about what the Gotei 13 might look like in 100 years or so? Presumably, most of the karakura gang would be dead and perhaps have become shinigami. Would this shake up the power structure in your opinion?

[@suedebx0]

So I have a question some Captains/Lieutenants have very utility based shikai/bankai and of course Yoroichi who doesnt even use her zanpakuto. Its been stated that these releases have certain power multipliers so if they don't use these releases because their current fight doesnt fit that utility ie Shinji's bankai does that mean that they are capped at rhat current releases power level like would Shinji be able to fight with the same pool of power in Shikai as he would have in bankai?

[@muriok2474]

One thing I love and hate about bleach is so many characters, all with great designs but so many potential power houses don't get to show off

[@kiritokaguya9180]

I would really love to see the Vizards doing their thing for ones. Just show their power and save the day...

[@KendraMorgan-ob2fr]

I never understood why kubo did the vizards dirty.

[@MagicianSama]

I wonder how strong Byakuyas grandpa is

[@user-be9gw9je3h]

I hope we'll see him in Hell arc doing something cool

[@RGA301092]

He's allegedly weaker than Byakuya from the Soul Society arc (Byakuya was called the strongest Kuchiki head in history at the time).

[@mugetsu1821]

Uhm ,Yamamoto's victim .

[@zachcollier7092]

⁠@@RGA301092yeah but that will certainly be retconned if we ever hear anything about him especially with how weak SS Byakuya was

[@Purriah]

@@zachcollier7092he wasn’t weak at all though lol.

[@animeloverhaven]

It’s definitely one of the strongest line ups out of the gotei 13

[@powerslave6944]

If I’m not mistaken, correct me if I’m wrong here Captain Kiganjo’s lieutenant was Ichinose Maki, the guy who wanted to avenge his Captain’s death at the hands of Zaraki Kenpachi. And as for the current 10th Captain in the Turn Back the Pendulum I believe the Captaincy was vacant after Isshin Kurosaki’s disappearance in the World of the Living.

[@depressedonion9080]

Not sure if it can be said to be the strongest, but i think it can be said with certainty that this lineup had the strongest non captain class soul reapers. Filled with many future captain class soul reapers and including the 3 smartest bleach characters (aizen, kisuke, and mayuri). Aizen, chojiro, mayuri, even the visords seem much more competent than current lieutenants. Can’t remember off the top of my head if soifon, toshiro, tozen, and gin were in anywhere yet, but they were certainly in soul society (some with aizen).

[@thewarrior8497]

You should make more Toshiro vidoes

[@jeffergzl]

10:40 In Spirits are Forever with You, he gets expanded more I think?

[@darianricks2050]

This Gotei 13 had Yourichi, Urahara, Aizen, Shunsui, Ukitake ,Yamamoto , unohana, Byakuya grandfather. The future Gotei 13 after TYBW arc has Kenpachi w/ bankai Byakuya-soul palace Renji-soul palace true bankai Rukia Shunsui, Soi fon, Hitsugaya-real bankai 3 vizards, Hisagi with a bankai

[@tevinluacaw1876]

Rukia also with bankai n royal palace training

[@darianricks2050]

@@tevinluacaw1876 yes

[@tevinluacaw1876]

@@darianricks2050 can we count Aizen as a wild card?

[@Jarikraider]

Aizen AND Urahara, so yes.

[@kgforshort]

Wonder if Soifon hadn’t made out of TTYBW arc if Yūshirō would had became the captain of 2nd Division

[@k2basior]

What about the Gotei just before it with Urahara as Yoruichi's 3rd seat and Hikifune as div 12 captain?

[@shukei26]

In the chapters covering this arg they counted back from -108 to -93 (i think). Did Kubo irignally intended to vreat more flashback arcs to get to Zero and scrap them or what?

[@yukimurasanada5209]

i'd say the strongest is as soon as Aizen is a captain, imagine if the quincies invaded 10 years earlier, that would had been fun, Yamamoto, Ain and Gin would own them then maybe use the chaos to become head captain, aizen would still be ambitious, though Byakuya's grandfather is a mystery we never saw him fight and if Yamamoto is over 1000 how old was he and its hard to believe illness killed him, maybe he retired to the cities of nobles, i forget if its mentioned he is dead, i never knew byakuya's father had artwork too, though maybe end of tybw is best

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Wasn't there a character in the first filler (?), that was supposedly the vice-captain of Kiganju (tho Kiganju is unnamed and differently characterised, it feels worth mentioning nonetheless)?

[@maciekwucow3989]

Its filler so why bother.

[@christaincotoco2738]

I'm curious, why do some shinigami aged and some don't? The show gave us a glimpse of how Renji and Kuchiki grow up, the same way we saw toshiro before he was scouted by Matsumoto. Why does Unohana doesn't grow old (physically) but Yamamoto did?

[@jamessunderlandseventh7410]

Having Urahara, Aizen and 100 year younger Yamamoto is just crazy, TURN BACK THE PENDULUM Gotei 13 is insane.

[@majinjd3545]

Wonder if this version of the goti 13 would do better in the first Quincy invasion than the current version

[@flavius14]

Without watching the video yet(i will watch) i say a strong NO, Tousen who did not was a lieutenant just a ranked officer one shoted 3 of the captains that became visored like they were nothing(fist kensei then love and rose+ 3 lieutenants), the kenpachi of that period was probably the weakest of the kenpachis, yes there were some strong captain yama, shunsui, ukitake, yourichi, unohana but the visored ones are week (sorry the only feat they have in the manga was killing some menos)

[@arthurmarshall6825]

Tousen's Bankai will one shot ALOT of people, especially if they had no idea about it ahead of time. The only way to survive is to be both a physical monster and a combat monster as you have to take a normally lethal shot, not die from it and then be able to counter attack at that moment. Heck Kenpachi only won in the SS arc because Tousen screwed around and gave him time to adapt to what's going on. There is no shame to getting one shotted by Tousen's BS Bankai.

[@frikanetwork]

Me and my friend had a funny convo abou the quicies…the pun was …. They were checking up on the gotei 13 during the turn back pemdulum amd were like “hell no”

[@strider_hiryu850]

another asset to consider, the Kido Corps. yes, technically they aren't part of the Gotei 13 proper. however, they are under the direct command of Captain Commander Yamamoto. and since this version has no 10th division to speak of, i think it's fair to include them. so what does that do to the rankings? well, we got a core of some of the strongest Captains & lieutenants the Gotei have ever seen, a few of the most lackluster mid tiers, and a bunch of unknowns. ultimately, i think the power of the powerhouses is enough to overcome any weaknesses. and lets be honest: Kensei, Love, Rose, and Shinji aren't weak. they just fail to meet the high standards of the behemoths they have to compete with. but that doesn't make them weak. so, do i think this is the strongest version? mmm, it's hard to say. but yes. Kisuke, Mayuri, Yoruichi, Aizen, Tousen, Yamamoto, Chojiro, Unohana, Seinosuke, Shunsui, Lisa, Ukitake, Kaien, Ginrei (potentially), Iba (potentially), Marenoshin, Tessei, and Hachi. 18 of some of the heaviest hitters in the entire series... in all of anime, quite frankly. rounded off with the other Visoreds? yeah. i mean Zaraki & Hitsugaya only contribute so much. to me? this iteration was the strongest.

[@xiaokong9920]

I firmly believe the reason why kubo didnt revelead anything from squad 10 is because of Isshin... I think he was probably the vice captain and Matsumoto the 3rd seat. But since this time, he was still a mistery, he just killed the captain off screen so he woulkd not show anyone from the squad 100

[@alexsantiago3181]

Having Yamamoto, Yoruichi, Aizen, Shinji, Kaien, Lisa, Shunsui, Ukitake and Urahara definitely carries

[@animegamer262447]

Isn't it plausible that Isshin was the Vice Captain on the 10th squad during the turn back the pendulum arc. We don't know how old he really is.

[@RGA301092]

No. At the start of the arc, the 10th Squad Captain was recently deceased. There's a 10 year timeskip before the Hollowfication incident. And in Everything But the Rain, Isshin acts as if he's never met Urahara before, ruling out the likelihood that Isshin was appointed during that 10 year timeskip.

[@animegamer262447]

@@RGA301092 shit, that's right.

[@animegamer262447]

@RGA301092 good catch man.

[@abnerr5265]

Do we know where Ishiin is at all in this time? I would think he would be Vice Captain at least

[@marctm7614]

Unknown, but unlikely to have been a Gotei member. He didn't know Kisuke when they met in the human world, which wouldn't really make sense if he was already a Vice Captain when Kisuke was promoted to the 12th division.

[@GelgoogJ]

Hot take! One of the vizard hollowfi in bleach part 3 TYBW!

[@user-gj4ml7su3n]

This version has 6 monster captains and Aizen, but the rest is pretty lackluster. Especially third and ninth divisions.

[@EmberAwoken]

Surely the group of captains a few years before this would be one place higher than this group given it has Hikifune and the 10th captain. I would think this version of Urahara is a bit less finessed in power.

[@fateunleashed9680]

I'd love if Isshin Shiba was the vice captain of squad 10 under the no name dead captain. Then, I'd agree this group is stronger than the group from the Soul Society arc. No doubt about it. Although I'd agree either way.

[@cameronclophus7998]

What if the 10th Division Captain that died was Furuoki?

[@BladeZlayer]

RIP Retsu Yachiru Unohana🌺

[@apadilla2322]

In in regrds to Ginrei, he was able to resist Goga's abilities in the Zanpatuko Arc......yes, i know thats not cannon but i feel that sheds light on his overall power as he tries to expalin how Goga needs a strong heart and will power to control his powers, thus insinuating he(Ginrei) had to learn to control his own powers.....my2cents

[@epichampster6043]

5:15 ain’t the 10th division captain isshin because isshin went to karakura and just saved masaki kurosaki and is in a gigai and they thought he was dead. but also the lieutenant is probably toshiro

[@bubbasgotback431]

I do have to wonder how long it was between TBTP and Everything but the Rain when Isshin is the acting captain of the 10th division. Heck, when did Rangiku join the division, because she and Gin are the same age and Gin, despite being a child prodigy, was barely a third seat during TBTP

[@ComicCrossing]

I would bet money that Isshin was the Vice Captain of 10th at the time acting as the Captain in all but name and Rangiku was probably 3rd seat matching Gin. Or at least another seated position. But showing anything about the 10th wouldve been revealing too much in this arc so they were just sorta written out of it.

[@marctm7614]

What do you mean "barely"? Gin killed a 3rd seat before ever even gaining a seated position and was immediately made Aizen's vice captain after his promotion.

[@bubbasgotback431]

@@marctm7614 barely as in just made into the third seat during the events of tbtp. I meant timing wise not ability

[@LuhTae0811]

I just feel like the old captains we know little about could be perfect enemies in the hell arc and we could have great bleach chapters if kubo could kubo.

[@JerkWarlord]

5:08 Regarding the 10th division... I'd wager good money the Vice Captain was Isshin, and that he became Captain sometime after TBTP but obviously before EBTR. Decent chance the Shibas used to be like the Shihoins and Kuchikis only with Squad 10 instead of Squads 2 and 6... In which case I'd argue there's a strong chance the dead Captain was Isshin's brother/Kaien, Kukaku, and Ganju's father. At least I think that more likely than another Shiba relative; Makes more sense to go Isshin's brother/Kaien, Kukaku, and Ganju's father, than it does, say, Isshin's father/Ichigo's grandfather, or someone more distant still.

[@marctm7614]

Isshin had no idea who Urahara was when they met, so it's extremely unlikely that he was even in the Gotei 100 years ago.

[@JerkWarlord]

@@marctm7614 Ah shit you're right; Totally forgot about that lol. Great point thank you!

[@viskj]

Kuriyashiki actually brought up Ginrei and Yoruichi for being able to cut down a menos.

[@jpcsdutra]

While we "can't" know, I think there's an argument to be made that Isshin would be nearing promotion to Captain of the 10th Division during TBTP. Hitsugaya has been Captain for around a decade or two and that still configures "recently promoted" in Shinigami terms. From the empty seat in TBTP and Isshin's exile in 1983, there's supposedly less than 80 years of time. Which is not a whole lot in the time scale of this series. It would be really something if Isshin wasn't around at least vice-captain or third seat level at that point in time. It doesn't help we don't know about his bankai, but as a fire-type, we can kinda guess it has a bit of an advantage over Hitsugaya's. Also, about Byakuya's grandfather, Ginrei... There's something weird in that. I might be getting my canons confused, but I'm almost positive that he is just retired and not dead. We don't get to see that often at all. Someone at captain level, that presumably has bankai, is still alive, and still isn't seen fighting at anyone point in the plot.

[@marctm7614]

It is unlikely that Isshin was a high ranking member of the Gotei, as he seemed completely ignorant about Urahara when they met.

[@Purriah]

@@marctm7614almost everyone was ignorant about urahara. He went from being an unknown leader of one of the secretive branches of the stealth corps, to being a captain

[@marctm7614]

@@Purriah Urahara was the 3rd seat of the second division, nothing implied he was unknown and you missed the point. He was promoted to Captain and literally made the 12th division what it is today, he's also an exile and fugitive prior to Aizen's betrayal, Isshin would have known him if he was a vice captain around 100 years ago. He didn't, because he wasn't in the Gotei.

[@jpcsdutra]

@@marctm7614 You're not wrong on that take, but that really slims down what time Isshin would have had to enlist and grow to the rank of Captain. That's not bad because it makes him more impressive as a character. Hitsugaya is stated multiple times to be impressive for what he accomplished in 20 years. During multiple Bankai explanations we get early on, it is said that Bankai isn't usually achieved in less than a decade of dedicated training and probably over a century of shinigami training over all; most shinigami don't even reach Shikai after all (Both Rukia and Renji being roughly 150 through most of the series kinda proves what the average is). The issue then becomes that Isshin isn't stated to be that kind of genius. To not even be enlisted in the Gotei 13 and speedrun his way to both Bankai and Captain rank would be incredibly remarkable.

[@marctm7614]

@@jpcsdutra Well, Isshin is a noble and was even the head of a branch of the Shiba clan. It's not that surprising that he would become a Captain level Shinigami in a few short decades. Also, him not being in the Gotei doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't alive. Byakuya was a child back then and actively training, we just don't see him as a Captain until Everything But The Rain. It can be presumed that both became Captains in the decades in between Kisuke's departure and a bit before Isshin's.

[@ihateithere9298]

They hyped Shinji to the max only for him to get Peter-rolled any chance they wrote him in a fight

[@rahulshetty6391]

Is Matsumoto the oldest vice captain at the end of tybw? I would just like an episode where kyoraku and Matsumoto go out drinking

[@kevintanza6968]

i THINK SO.

[@benjiago6800]

you did this last year. lmg its either gonna be SBTP or EBTR. the only 2 logical options sorry end of series Captains, yall dont cut it.

[@TheBigExclusive]

Since the Vaizards aren't allowed to use their masks, I would say no.

[@gustavocosta2740]

At this time they didnt have masks

[@xnovablud2497]

it had kensei and rose so that brings them down a bit

[@shawnboahene5231]

My theory white was the old 10th division captain

[@tebpeasant4878]

Shinji and Aizen in the same squad definitely one of if not the strongest in the history of the gotei

[@mattstyles2498]

Alot of the heavy hitters in thos line up arent heavy hitters yet. They are great cuz they been capt level for over 100 years

[@TerreneitorPlusUltra]

Well they didn't have 3 "traitors" as captains at least

[@TbxB95]

TBTP Gotei has the same issue of EOS Gotei, half of them are beasts, the other half low level, also there are many variable unknowns. For me, TBTP so far still can compete to be the strongest one, as by ignoring personal differences, plots and betrayals, this version could boast: Yamamoto, Unohana, Kyoraku, Ukitake, Yoruichi, Urahara, Aizen, also Ginrei (supposed very experienced and powerfull), you have like 7-8 MONSTERS in the same team. Yeah, the other captains weren't great, 1 was dead, the Vizards without hollow powers were weaker than now (not that it matters, if they aren't allowed to use them anymore), also Kiganjo was trash. That said, speaking of the other members, yes, many are unknowns, Omeada's dad, Iba's mom, the father of Sentaro, but Sasakibe and Tosen were further bankai users, Kaien was there too, Seinosuke (Hanataro big bro) was really proficient with Kido, probably Byakuya's dad was good too, and then, not as lieutenants, but aside of little Soifon and little Gin, Mayuri and Komamura were already in as Gotei members (not as strong as present days, yet not weak).To me, only SS Gotei can compete, as 5 of those monsters were still present, and while Byakuya, Zaraki or Gin during SS arc wouldn't replace Yoruichi or Kisuke, overall this asset had better individual talents among the rest of captains and lieutentants. EOS Gotei has like 5 monsters again, some peak levels, also some of the strongest lieutenants, but over than a questionable half of the team, not have Yamamoto or Aizen anymore (over the rest) marks a clear difference, whether you want it or not. Personally, aside of OG Gotei, said to had been "the strongest formation" but that's to see, I would have been curios about SAFWY asset, around 250 years ago. Yamamoto, Unohana, Ginrei, Kyoraku and Ukitake surely as captains, too see the rest, but if we think, not only that chad of Kuruyashiki, even Hikifune should have been there, have two Zero Division potentials was... crazy.

[@ComicCrossing]

I will say one thing about your estimate of Kiganjo. Just because he lost to Kenpachi who would one day lose to Ichigo does not mean that Kenpachi was as weak as he was during the Soul Society arc vs Ichigo when he faced Kiganjo. Unohana makes clear that he subconsciously pulls himself back to his opponents level. Meaning that he would have held himself back to just about as strong as Kiganjo. Its not like Shikai Ichigo would easily take out Kenpachi Kiganjo. Hed probably lose because he wouldnt play around the way Kenpachi Zaraki did. Which gave Ichigo the opportunity to win in the first place vs Kenpachi.

[@nhc7772]

I’m sorry but having Aizen and Kisuke on the same team makes this one the strongest AND most dangerous. They lift up the entire team. I have zero doubt that they’d come up with an unbeatable plan no matter who they were facing. They’re just cheat codes lol

[@Mooinator3000]

Yamato also had another arm here

[@BIayne]

Spicy take time! 🌶️ 🌶️🌶️ I think we've seen Aizen's Bankai, we just didnt know it. He's the only character smart enough to lie about this abilities lol

[@willdiesel8431]

...yet he knew everything about Ichigo, told Ichigo he's been aware of him for a long time and still took an L. This rimjobbing of Aizen is really baffling. If he has more in store he needs to showcase it in some way other than being an all knowing hipster douche.

[@BIayne]

@@willdiesel8431 dude, Aizen literally lied about the power of his Zanpakuto for decades previously.

[@willdiesel8431]

@@BIayne how does that refute what actually happened? He lost. And if, and I do mean if. Ichigo was the only obstacle he could forsee then it's really pathetic that he lost to him considering all the intel he had on him.

[@BIayne]

@@willdiesel8431 I think you're forgetting how arrogant Aizen is and how strong and unstoppable he perceived himself to be by the time we got to Fake Karakura Town. It's called a ✨character flaw✨

[@KennyMatthewsMonster]

Matsumoto definitely isn’t the vice captain. Gin should be a similar age, and he’s still a little unseated kid at that point.

[@ryanpearl8230]

I think the soul society arc had the strongest group of captains out of the groups mentioned. They had aizen, Gin, kenpachi, tosen, byakuya, just that alone I think is a better lineup lol

[@arthurmarshall6825]

Better than Yourichi & Urahara along with an unknown Grandpa Byakuya while also having Aizen?

[@hollowify_tensa_zangetsu]

The 2nd best flashback...I think they are

[@elijahmckenzie9207]

Hiyori was slamming Ichigo before he got his mask in shikai, the same Ichigo that No diff’d 3 luitenants without his sword

[@Isomblevous]

"... the hidden power of his bankai..." (talking about Sasakibe). Still got destroyed by Icchigo in one hit during Soul Society. Sasakibe is a joke.

[@olo703]

Sasakibe stabbed Yhwach, Yhwach a joke. Yhwach one-shot Yamamoto, Yamamoto a joke.

[@shiroufan5401]

Kubo most definitely was not planning for him to be stronger in the future it’s just an inconsistent part of the story

[@olo703]

@@shiroufan5401 Or it just means that he got weaker after abstaining from fights for a whole millenium.

[@Isomblevous]

@@olo703 in this case he is even more of a joke, because he jnew his idol/hero valued strength and tradition above everything else at the time. And this betrays the core of his chraacter motivation.

[@olo703]

@@Isomblevous That was the case only 1000 years ago. Yama became, as Yhwach put it, complacent.

[@jongall3136]

Gonna disagree on the Fifth Division, Momo is clearly much tougher than Shinji.

[@clintmatthews3500]

Momo is the Paladin of the Gotei 13.

[@dabest9843]

Overall military might, yes. As an army who knows how to take out an enemy, no.