MSFS - Base to final stall, aka coffin corner

Рет қаралды 6,042

P Gatcomb

Жыл бұрын

In this video, we explore how easily a 'simple' correction during landing can result in a serious accident.

Пікірлер: 36

@Alexander-hk5ke Жыл бұрын

Base to final spin is serious. But its not called coffin corner

@alancrane2646 Жыл бұрын

Hey Pat, Im not sure if the title is correct for this situation. Coffin corner is the small margin at high altitude of VS and VMO/MMO. It's called coffin corner because at high altitude, one sharp input can put you into a stall or overspeed situation. Yours sincerely, Alan

@sammygoris Жыл бұрын

That’s correct - this definitely caught my eye is as soon as I saw the title. Probably worth correcting the title.

@InsaneMetalSoldier Жыл бұрын

Yep! Came here to say that

@jonasbaine3538 Жыл бұрын

Let's just be glad he's on flight sim while not understanding certain concepts...

@donlokbooha4972 8 ай бұрын

This is not Coffin Corner. Coffin Corner is in reference to the small airspeed range between stall speed and Mcrit when flying at high altitudes and high speeds (Typically Mach 0.72 - 1.1)

@josephhann8844 7 ай бұрын

Correct.

@12345fowler 8 ай бұрын

This is not the definition of the coffin corner.

@thecorporatepilotdad Жыл бұрын

Coffin Corner is the narrow margin between stall speed and Mmo and it gets narrower as altitude increases. This is more of a cross-controlled stall and spin scenario (which is really bad). A go-around should always happen before adding rudder to get the nose where it should be due to bad planning in the pattern.

@jameswebb2856 Жыл бұрын

A most excellent video, here are a few thoughts from an instructor. The best way to avoid the “stall, spin, crash, burn die” scenario is to fly a proper traffic pattern. The turn from base to final is the portion of the pattern with the slowest groundspeed. For that reason the bank used for this turn is the shallowest with a maximum of 15 to 20 degrees. If you overshoot the final maintain the no more than 20 degrees to properly align with the runway. If that is not possible then you go around. The airspeed must remain on the proper approach speed for the flaps setting. Remember the first commandment of aviation: “Maintain your airspeed lest the ground rise up and smite you”.

@alancrane2646 Жыл бұрын

Absolutely Sir James! I think as always Pat makes great videos which you can definitely apply to real life flying too.

@doublegman2457 11 ай бұрын

Stall FALL Spin SCREAM Crash Burn Die 😬

@jimmydulin928 6 ай бұрын

You are absolutely correct, James, given the ACS you are locked into. In Air Cavalry, crop dusting, pipeline patrol, and most of maneuvering flight including around the canyon and mountain airports, 15 to 20 degrees bank angle doesn't always get the job of missing things done. I understand, limited bank is cooked into the absolute ACS need to maintain altitude at all costs. Wait, "Maintain your airspeed lest the ground rise up and smite you." Yes, they have put you at odds with common sense and what the airplane wants to do. What does the airplane want to do in turns, actually any curved flight? Why will ACS not allow the safety feature the designer tried to help you poor instructors with? What the airplane wants to do because it was designed that way to prevent stall is to allow the nose to go down in turns. It is dynamic neutral stability that ACS rejects, but crop dusters use it in every turn to stay alive. And they turn at whatever bank angle is necessary to acquire the target. They don't stall because they don't insist on altitude maintenance and they pay attention to what the airplane wants to do, pitch down. A turn of any bank angle, say 80 degree bank angle, is a 1 g turn until the pilot pulls back on the stick. I am a disorganized mess as both pilot and instructor, but I have survived 11 engine failures at or below 200' AGL crop dusting and on pipeline patrol. I have always taught toward duds like myself. You guys try to keep them from getting into the situation to begin with, except for the left turn requirement that gives them the downwind base to final that increases the probability of the skidding spin problem. Stall, required for spin, is the problem. Not learning how to turn safely and pulling back in turns is the problem. Anyway, some of us have to teach flying for dummies, because human nature leads to holes in the cheese that doesn't alway get prevented. And stall practice at altitude is no help for inadvertent stall in the pattern. Learning to turn safely, giving up altitude for airspeed, learning what the airplane wants to do, learning the law of the roller coaster, learning zoo reserve, "Stick and Rudder" stuff would be helpful. I know you are locked into arbitrary numbers, ACS. It is not your fault. In the Army we called it work around when we had to find regulations to counter inappropriate regulations. I work with lots of instructors on energy management and encourage them to teach flying first and test preparation after. It really does not delay their attainment of standards having learned a little of what Wolfgang taught. I soloed students in less than ten hours after teaching just flying and then turned them over to the regular instructor for test prep. It didn't warp their minds to learn the art before the numbers. Things like airspeed is life down low and neither Vx nor Vy is appropriate on long runways where cruise can be attained quickly in low ground effect. No, can't pass the test that way. Just stay alive.

@possiblyadickhead6653 Жыл бұрын

Isnt coffin corner normally something else???

@OnceShy_TwiceBitten 9 ай бұрын

LMFAO, that isn't what Coffin corner is. Gamer. lol

@lewis7315 8 ай бұрын

the simple solution after you pass the runway would be to turn right till you were 60 degrees right of your course. Then turn left and you will be perfectly lined up with the runway... boats do this in a "man overboard" situation. The best way to avoid this problem to begin with would be to be far enough from the runway when you go past it. Then a gentle turn will line you up.

@Bluth53 Жыл бұрын

Learning something new every day! So much appreciated. Thank you

@jameswebb2856 Жыл бұрын

Here is a little more for your learning enjoyment. A few thoughts from an instructor. The best way to avoid the “stall, spin, crash, burn die” scenario is to fly a proper traffic pattern. The turn from base to final is the portion of the pattern with the slowest groundspeed. For that reason the bank used for this turn is the shallowest with a maximum of 15 to 20 degrees. If you overshoot the final maintain the no more than 20 degrees to properly align with the runway. If that is not possible then you go around. The airspeed must remain on the proper approach speed for the flaps setting. Remember the first commandment of aviation: “Maintain your airspeed lest the ground rise up and smite you”.

@Bluth53 Жыл бұрын

@@jameswebb2856 Not only a knowledgeable but entertaining reply! Thank you - now I'll always remember :)

@justadreamin1004 7 ай бұрын

this is all due a bad pattern approach - it all started on the downwind. put the wingtip on the runway for spacing and this will help a lot. final approach is not the time for a lot of correction

@laranja9921 9 ай бұрын

Coffin Corner is Usually referred when the low speed stall and the high speed buffet margin gets very reduced usually at high altitudes, in a base to final stall and subsequent spin what happens is the airplane already in a low speed state probably configured with a high bank angle and rudder input the load factor increases, leading to an increase in stall speed which will cause you to stall and because you are banking one wing will stall first than the other usually the low wing, this will lead to a spin. One type of spins is described as the graveyard spin it might ve been that you were referring instead of the coffin corner.

@SlosII 5 ай бұрын

Coffin corner has got nothing to do with base to final turn stalls..... they are two completely different things. Please do your research.

@marklindsey1995 5 ай бұрын

Excellent demonstration. A lot of commentors seem to have no idea what the purpose of this video is (who flies Vma in the pattern?). As a side note, the coffin corner is near the aircraft's maximum ceiling, where maximum Mach number and stall speed converge. Any decrease in speed results in a stall. Any increase in speed causes a loss of lift and violent nose down pitching often exceeding structural limits. You have demonstrated a Cross Control Stall.

@InsaneMetalSoldier Жыл бұрын

Hey man! good video but that's not the coffin corner :S

@jeremiahbond2810 5 ай бұрын

If you are flying like this... But in any case. Did a poweroff landing in a turn much closer than this and the wind blew me to almost 90 degrees twice once right after the next. The second time much harder than the first. I attribute this to low engine power. Fortunately I survives this but boy did it scare the piss out of me. In my defense i was in training and only have a total of 16-17 hrs as of right now.

@georgeblank2648 7 ай бұрын

Just take a wider downwind

@martincox9691 Жыл бұрын

“You collided with an object”. I think it’s called “a planet”……..

@HowBoutDemBoyzz Жыл бұрын

Hi, love your videos. As a new flight simner one thing I haven't wrapped my head around is how/why/when to use the rudder effectively. I'm familiar with slips a little bit, but definitely do not understand the theory enough to apply that knowledge effectively. Do you have any videos on something like this? Couldn't find any in a brief look. Thanks!