Susan Kare demonstrating the Macintosh Interface in 1984

[@interfacestudies]

If you’re interested in the full history of graphical user interfaces (GUI), you can watch my complete documentary, available on this channel kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHmwgXqemt-dZtU

[@MikeLikesChannel]

The interesting thing about Susan is that she's still working to this day, and her firm is not all that expensive relative to the market. We hired her for our SAAS product. Very talented designer.

[@iAPX432]

She was a great UI designer and UX engineer at once! She paved the way... And she is also lovely.

[@gregorymoore2877]

Maybe Apple should hire her to do their keynotes? It might make their presentations interesting again.

[@EnronnSierra]

She explained each function with such care.

[@thomas-zs2jm]

You could say she explained each function with such Kare.

[@euphoric_ary]

Good one

[@FloydDiamond]

@@thomas-zs2jm He missed, cause he did not Kare :(

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

I learned that ASMR affecionados cherish this interview with Susan Kare. They say it's one of the proto-ASMR examples along with Bob Ross.

[@codix__]

The moment when she types on the keyboard, damn.

[@luizarthurbrito]

It's just perfection

[@professor_stevens6784]

This really does demonstrate her ability to communicate clearly both in words and visually. A very rare combination.

[@ProUpMasterclass4TA]

Here in 2023. It's amazing to see how far technology has come. This video is gold .

[@ulrichhauser-ehninger7669]

Actually, it's about 40 years later and still MS word cannot cope with huge documents, handle proper placement of images, cannot reliably set cross references, is a bibliography nightmare. Go back again 40 years and you are in 1944. Look at what emerged between then and 1984. It looks like we slowed down a lot since then.

[@RangaTurk]

But the first ten years of Macintosh 1976-1986 (Apple II to Macintosh Plus) were way beyond Alan Turing and Colossus. Look at the graphics on the demo programs on the Macintosh.@@ulrichhauser-ehninger7669

[@RangaTurk]

Whoops I meant the first ten years of Apple.

[@Terp311]

Sure I guess so

[@vadimmakarov6811]

The basics of the graphical user interface, introduced by Apple, are in every today's gadget.

[@Mekaneckpain]

I love how back in 1984, the GUI was such a new thing and so very futuristic. Now it's common place.

[@numericalcode]

Susan Kare is an absolute legend

[@patchso]

A lot of Susan Kare’s graphic design talent is behind the way everyone interacts with and uses technology today. It was the simplicity and the ease of which information was conveyed that makes her work a design classic.

[@WhatALoadOfTosca]

Do you have examples? Would love to see.

[@jettsom]

This is groundbreaking stuff for the time. This is almost 2 years priors to the release of Windows 1.0 and still to this day represents the way we work mostly with a computer to this day (files system, move and drag, mouse interaction, double clicks, etc.).

[@medes5597]

It's almost 7 years after Smalltalk and over a decade after the mother of all demos.

[@ralfvanbogaert3451]

I'm not so impressed, personally. Only one year later, the first Amiga model came out, and blew the Mac clean out of the water in every possible regard, while costing a whole lot less. This thing was practically useless out-of-the-box, unless you invested even more money in an expensive RAM upgrade.

[@medes5597]

@@ralfvanbogaert3451 problem - it came out after Atari's TOS and no matter how much you try, they both came after and drew heavily from Apples efforts. Even if I agree with you about the Mac, it doesn't change that people were copying the concepts that were popularised (although mostly not originated) by Apples efforts in the GUI front. And the things Amiga did differently (using a workbench metaphor for file systems for example) didn't catch on. Having said that it was still superior. It just came after.

[@ralfvanbogaert3451]

@@medes5597 It came out after TOS because Tramiel rushed the ST to market to pre-empt the Amiga after he failed to get the rights to the chipset. It can't be denied that the Mac popularised the mouse-driven GUI, but let's face it, it's a pretty crappy, hugely overpriced, almost gimped computer that was next to worthless without additional upgrades.

[@theserpentes]

@@ralfvanbogaert3451 I don't give high praise for the Macintosh itself. The Smalltalk itself was already excellent demonstration, and it is understandable how Jobs was totally taken by it, and rushed Lisa to come with GUI just six months before release. That is the feat, in six months to turn the text interface system to have graphical interface on it. Now what the Xerox did with the Xerox Star, that is impressive. as they polished very much about the Xerox Alto. But regarding how PARC did all kind innovations and Xerox chief of staff didn't recognize and utilize those, that was massive mistake... It is like the Gary Kildall postponing the IBM deal because his wife's birthday was on that day the IBM wanted the meeting to get CP/M to IBM PC, and as meeting wasn't possible, IBM walked to Microsoft. It is just sad irony that she later divorced him, after he even put her birthdays ahead the company he so much loved. (Tell a lot about some women anyways). The PARC was as well very heavily restricted to the Xerox main business, photocopiers and scanners. Why they had that mentality from the begin that how computers work with the GUI they created. Like the document creation where to insert a graphic/picture to document, you did it with same process as you did it with the physical paper. Transferring the image from one paper to another using specific tool. Or like the screen was made vertical so that you can have a 1:1 letter on screen as on paper at hand. That was its curse as was for its major benefit! And that is the greatness in the Apple design, that they were never restricted to that "old business" mentality. Why Apple made their work process far more smooth and easier, like how you could just copy the image from anywhere, and paste it to word processor at any given position and it came there, without requiring you to prepare the area first in document, and then transfer the image to that area. Those couple extra steps that Xerox Star required was result from the too analogy thinking process. Where at Apple they really could just skip and ignore that and make it easier and nicer. I have the Atari ST 520 running in perfect condition from its time, 1985. Even when it has just 512 Kb of memory, it is very capable machine for its time, considering that Macintosh came out year before. The GEM was IMHO ahead of the Apple, and there are some small nice features too. Why it is totally understandable why Apple wanted to kill it, and why in GEM 2.0 the resizable and movable windows were removed and no more overlapping. Basically killing it on that spot. These years from mid 70's to late 80's were the golden era of computing, that was when the computer technology was defined and developed to be even today. After that everything is just smoothing these small things and make it somewhat better, and manyways even worse. Like today I finished 32 page presentation file, and it is even today way too complicated than what it should really be about for casual users. When you know the applications, it is easy. But seeing how many is constantly failing to make good presentations and so on push forward with their ideas, it is not odd that it can really be sourced to these tiny details like how to get the file on the slide, or how to get the slide in 16:9 instead 4:3 ratio etc. And talk about getting it as PDF and printed even.. There is so much tiny paper cuts all over the applications that you do not expect the casual users anymore really want to learn them. Simply saying, way too much features...

[@Chopper140]

Oh my gosh, time seemed so chill back then.

[@iGNUiCould]

It was.

[@bleachonacob4060]

In 1983, the Soviets had a false nuclear alarm that almost led to them launching their ICBMs.

[@SuperEnthused]

This is a beautiful thing to watch.

[@TheStallion1319]

Her voice is very soothing

[@graxxor]

This is such an iconic (no pun intended) speech.. Can you imagine how pivotal this was? She says, "We get what we call a window" Damn. That's a word that's going to do a whole lot of heavy lifting over the next 40 year.

[@professor_stevens6784]

Yeah, I took a beat on that too, remembering that (in 1984) almost no one knew that's what it was called.

[@graxxor]

@@professor_stevens6784 kinda like “pinch to zoom and shrink”. Absolutely seminal.

[@professor_stevens6784]

@@graxxor Good comparison. Contrast that with a teenager today saying "dial a phone," or "tune in a station."

[@timoruohomaki]

This is also a great explainer when compared to what Xerox had when they presented their GUI a decade before: photocopiers didn't have file systems so their GUI was only for functions, not files or folders. They didn't have trash bin, drag&drop or windows. Lisa really was a whole new level on how the GUI would work on a computer.

[@DocNo27]

Hard to believe this doesn't have more views or likes! Makes me want to break out my old Mac Plus.

[@algoboi]

how much for the Mac Plus?

[@DocNo27]

@@algoboi That one will never sell. Indeed I have a brand new in the box motherboard as well as analog board if I ever need them :)

[@givenchyhomme8694]

It's incredible that nearly 40 years later the UI of the Mac remains relatively unchanged.

[@tycooperaow]

Longevity

[@imstevencraig]

It is, as a result of her groundbreaking work. Shame they removed scrapbook tho.

[@domigi5425]

And I llike it that way, I know where everything is without actually knowing it xD

[@katherandefy]

Also the same is true of Windows which is software built much the same way as Mac software.

[@zedsdeadbaby]

Stagnant for 40 years you mean

[@månemannmånemann]

All of which we very much take for granted today

[@brightclouds98]

I can’t believe they had to rush her. How sad. You could tell she was at least very happy to explain everything.

[@DaveDoom]

It’s insane think that many of the terms she says they used, are now the common place phrases for what they are. Truly, any historic video

[@fluffyvillain968]

A disservice to society that this was rushed. Imagine if we had long format interviews back around these times…

[@WhatALoadOfTosca]

But then Stewart wouldn't get to interrupt or speak over people!

[@thomas_xsg]

@@WhatALoadOfToscaI always despised him. He pretends he’s the know-it-all and has the peasants come on in his show to educate the masses. Whenever the guest wants to go in a bit of detail he cuts it off and puts them in their place.

[@kevin409galv]

That keyboard is so gratifying. She is so chill

[@LeifES]

You might be inclined to think she doesn’t Kare, but she really does! Very much so!

[@highnoon9333]

Amazing. I love how she explains things. Thanks for sharing!

[@alexandermoody1946]

1984 and the joys of writing within a note book and how true that is, the pages in the hundreds that express all kinds of thoughts in word or work that may or may not ever be found. Intended to be read but by whom not known, those moments of brevity they are but yours to own.

[@indieshack4476]

any word yet when this will come to market

[@wewantjeremy]

next year

[@ChrisBreemer]

Amazing that something which was groundbreaking 40 years ago now looks so trivial and primitive. And yet some things have hardly changed.

[@theedspage]

I would have been begging my parents to get me a Mac in 1984 had I seen this as a kid 40 years ago. Note the date on the Control Panel: March 14! (Happy Pi Day) I agree with the ASMR fans, this is relaxing to listen to. Susan Kare is a legend.

[@WhatALoadOfTosca]

A car was cheaper

[@mimsnshine]

Incredible interface thank you xerox and apple for bringing it to the world

[@AlJey007]

such a pleasant voice

[@alcidesfy]

Very Susan.

[@run1492]

That was really the big bang of technology

[@tonykollberg]

Now she's an legendary icon :)

[@ag.4937]

Thank you for inventing those lovely icons ))

[@Binary_Omlet]

I really gotta stop falling in love with people from the past. Goodness.

[@jasonluong3862]

I remember begging my parents for this. I was obsessed with HyperCard.

[@OldAussieAds]

There were other graphical user interfaces in the 80s that used similar concepts here, such as GEM, Workbench, GEOS and of course Windows (which ironically Susan Care also designed icons for in the early 90s with Windows 3). Some surpassed the early Mac's Finder in ways such as colour or pre-emptive multitasking. But what they all failed at was having a user interface that was so consistent, it fooled the brain into thinking that the desktop in front of you was a real physical space with real objects, and the fourth wall (so to speak) was never broken. These other environments might have looked close to the untrained eye, but they weren't even close in practice. Even the Mac started to lose a bit of this as the years went on and their systems got more and more complicated (colour, AppleTalk networking, MultiFinder, System 7+, At Ease, OpenDoc etc).

[@Scoo]

Kare was also NeXT’s creative director, we have her to thank for the lavishly illustrated NeXTStep UI well.

[@WhatALoadOfTosca]

Let's not forget Apple stealing all the ideas and fundamentals of Mac from Xerox.

[@OldAussieAds]

@@WhatALoadOfTosca That's pretty common knowledge by this stage. But it wasn't a simple matter of just getting out their photocopiers (pun intended). We're talking about much, much lower specced hardware (which they also had to build). Two other factors were: 1) Xerox PARC didn't actually have a shipping product at this stage and it wasn't clear to Xerox PARC staff if there ever would be. It was a research project only then. 2) Apple didn't simply go "This looks great. Are you getting this all down Bill?". They actually hired some of the big brains of the Xerox PARC project such as Larry Tesler. Saying Larry Tesler helped copy the Xerox Alto is kind of like saying Ozzy Osbourne covers Black Sabbath songs. It's "sort" of true. And then again, other companies such as Microsoft had also seen the Xerox Alto. They had just as much chance at making a good product. But this wouldn't be the case for Windows until a decade later with Windows 95 (or Windows 3.1 at the very least).

[@WhatALoadOfTosca]

@@OldAussieAds True. One could also say Apple were to blame for that thinking their owned GUI and taking everyone to court. Their repeated aggressive entitled attitude has always slowed progress.

[@OldAussieAds]

@@WhatALoadOfTosca Yeah I know what you mean. They stopped GEM being as good as it could be for example.

[@baardbi]

Why zoom in like that to create an artificial widescreen effect? The video looks cramped and we miss out on content on the top and bottom.

[@JohnDoe-3333]

why is the 4:3 video cropped down to 16:9?

[@DB-MH11]

She looks like lovely person

[@gblargg]

The interface can be explored without initiating any changes, and when changes are made, you can often undo them.

[@artysanmobile]

It was a broadcast television show. Then as now, on a strict schedule. Nothing personal.

[@PeepingTom-xy9di]

In forty years time how personal computing have changed. These people were early pioneers of personal computers.

[@organismseven3700]

Many posts here are claiming that the Mac, Amiga , Atari etc were the real pioneers of the GUI. And my heart belongs to the Amiga, but... We simply have to admit that it was Xerox's PARC GUI that was the first example of it being used in a practical way. Others, later on, added a lot of spit and polish which enabled most people to use it with ease. Xerox PARC: The minds behind the GUI, Ethernet, Laser Printing, and Much More kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3LWqod-mMqhmM0

[@cottawalla]

They also invented the bean bag lounge for creative downtime.

[@threadbarerag336]

"Wow. Someone 3D printed the 'save' icon!"

[@user-vadimsirbu]

We didn't have neither interface nor mouse on Sintez, but Basic used to be enough for the time being. Used to be competitive.

[@adamdolson2525]

So cool 😎

[@UAL320]

2:34 A window, a window….hmm, where have I heard that before???

[@asthmaenthusiast]

This was almost 40 years ago and time just seems wrong somehow.

[@sarahb2004]

Absolutely. It’s weird

[@catcollision8371]

She has a really nice voice.

[@ayeco]

Why not keep the original aspect ratio??? There is important, additional context cropped off (deleted, gone forever).

[@roxair1]

So for decades I was wrong: there was never a „Happy Mac“ startup icon, it is called a „More content Mac“.😂😂😂

[@yamil.343]

Wow I was 13 in ‘84..

[@robodd4694]

It's shocking how archaic it was back then. What shocks me even more is I lived those years as a young adult. Although I was far more into PC's (Dell then Tandy was my love!) and thought Apple was a joke. Now I think Apple's tech is just magical. I get so sad when I see the state of Microsoft and what they've turned into... sure they were always a s*** company but had the best system (3.1 --> 10). Just recently I've joined the Apple garden and LOVING IT!

[@miguelacevedo8649]

Awesome!!

[@BigMacIIx]

There was a time when full GUI OS with a Word processor and a Paint program would fit into a 400kb diskette. I missed those times.

[@jecelassumpcaojr890]

400KB diskette plus 64KB of ROM, which also helped the 128KB of RAM go a bit further. Though a MacWrite document was limited to at most 7 pages in this environment.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

Why? You don’t like progress? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@dauphindauphin6607]

Wow, where can I buy that machine ?

[@sasquatch-7634]

Saw your picture at the Henry Ford museum.

[@StarOfArtemis]

I wish she had more time!

[@byteseq]

Wonderful primitive times. It did not really get fun until the Amiga arrived though

[@someonesomebody5287]

Computer Chronicles. Which episode was this? 😃

[@eti313]

Yep, it was all "icons, icons, icons." And menus, lots of menus; just multi-line lists of text with no icons.

[@techsuvara]

Not much has changed at the fundamental level since these revolutions in computer interaction.

[@marine4lyfe85]

I was a couple months from graduating high school.

[@Bllakez]

Where did you serve

[@marine4lyfe85]

@@Bllakez My first duty station was Camp Kinser, Okinawa for a year in 1986, then I went back to Camp Lejeune for the rest of my tour 87-89.

[@mikepxg6406]

How things have progressed in a few years.

[@RalphDratman]

Wow... my past.

[@C4rb0neum]

We need a Susan to demonstrate to people that you can actually drive and charge an electric car quite easily.

[@abuelovinagres4411]

Please tell this is a joke.

[@hotmonkeyfilms]

Susan is an OG Genius! I was surprised to see she wasn't alone when her colleague Jerry Manock popped up. 6:00 He must be the first man in the history of computers NOT TO take over and MANSPLAIN THINGS.

[@professor_stevens6784]

It is a quietly significant element of this bit of video that a young woman is telling these two guys in suits how a tech thing works. Everyone acts like she is, you know, a capable colleague. Wish we'd do that everywhere today.

[@RazielMessiah]

Boy you guys will sure miss "mansplaining" 5-10 years from now...

[@prsearls]

I still have mine. It was quite the computer back then. Too bad the current Apple company doesn't have the vision and hardware/software competence that Steve Jobs created.

[@Jako1741]

I remember how fascinating and top notch tech those things looked at the shop (I couldn’t even dream of affording one). Now, watching this video in my iphone, that thing looks like a bulky and unpractical fossil 😅

[@calabrais]

1:45 "We're moving into the 80's" she says condescendingly 😂

[@robertmaybeth3434]

Computers in the 1980's were incredibly dull. But I went to a trade school to learn programming because they taught Basic, fortran, Cobol and Pascal. And after paying all the money I found out I was no good at programming whatsoever. But it was obvious to anybody, the potential was already there for computers to be much more than the primitive devices they were - but I wasn't going to be one of the ones doing that.

[@TheMaxKids]

Susan, tell us about… I C O N s😂

[@Mainyehc]

From now on, I shall be referring to the Happy Mac as “Content Mac” 🙃

[@hazel_moonshine]

Susan Kare is such a legend

[@Scalpaxos]

Hard to pinpoint but there's something savagely sensual about this woman.

[@yaboyfrresh]

What do you mean

[@Redstripe921]

Yep, soft, gentle, feminine

[@DavidJG242]

@documentarydetectiveiii5217 savagely?

[@douglas2lee929]

Like a 1969 hippie chick

[@ronaldhill7180]

Xerox dropped the ball. This was their technology.

[@PACKYCSONE80]

Those keystrokes...my god!!!

[@brickingle3984]

You can tell she was practiced with a typewriter

[@ScoopexUs]

This demonstrated two problems that Mac alone suffered: 1. The screen is too small and 2. it's built into the computer (or vice versa). Yet, Apple (well, Jobs and heirs) would stubbornly insist on this to this day. Icons should ALWAYS come with text with the icons. The reason is that the small icon will mean anything to anyone, and you must associate it with a word or two. There is no inherent meaning in any graphic symbol, not even something that looks like a trashcan to most but not all people. Here's a test: if you can, on your phone remove all app names under the icons. Now try to use the phone. You will probably be able to make calls because of the color of the phone icon, but for messages, you will have no idea if you will be texting or using another app.

[@kristinaF54]

She kept quiet that it was Microsoft who wrote those programs for Apple at the time.

[@cool-aquarian]

This is a lot more features than what Windows Notepad has in 2023. 😂

[@mardus_ee]

Windows Notepad, with updates from Microsoft Store, has a tabbed interface now. Windows 10, or certainly 11 also provide built-in spell-checking, and speech-to-text. These features must be in Macs, too.

[@discopants68]

PC users at the time were like “iT’s JuSt A tOy!!1!”

[@jt8251]

"We're moving into the 80s..."

[@2010Edgars]

40 years ago ... and keyboard not really changed.

[@ctube221]

1:15 wish my first girlfriend would have been this clear.

[@MichaelOfRohan]

Shes a good lookin baby 👍

[@perfectionbox]

🥰

[@edward_lee]

Interesting.. a lot of these are in Windows like they copied it! Control Panel, Note Pad..

[@luigicirelli2583]

all off a floppy and a little HDD space

[@botmsj]

She's more a salesperson than an icon designer.

[@briandrummond7993]

Except for the part where she designed all the icons

[@fosnieplays]

pretty much nothing has changed in 40 years.

[@avonzo]

Now this is innovation. Right now, Apple has lost its momentum. This momentum. We're just in the minor improvements. Right now its about minimalism to the level that SMS don't work (phone is supposed to send messages to another person either they're in Apple or Android or anything that does SMS. We've lost that. We want to see what's going on when troubleshooting. But we've lost the ability to get to the bottom of things easily.

[@3DJapan]

"here's the UI we ripped off from Xerox".

[@doughoffman9463]

Xerox literally gave it away. It was not a rip off. Xerox refused to invest in the UI to bring it to market. Steve Jobs had the vision and the guts to "bet the company" on this new technology by investing heavily to bring it to market. This gamble paid off well for Apple, and benefitted countless users of computers.

[@radenmulyadi2589]

She really need minimum 13inch monitor

[@julianbarnett6682]

Bill Gates saw this and decided to co-opt the whole damn thing.

[@thesushifiend]

If Sarah Connor hadn't been a diner waitress!

[@davidwiley4953]

Step 1: steal from Xerox

[@Joooooooooooosh]

So simple, a woman can do it!

[@psychicseveredhead2535]

this tech has a lot of potential, I hope it goes places!

[@randomautonomousdronepilot3384]

I am not a feminist but idk why these guys hurrying her up is pissing me off. And I am borderline mysogonist.

[@Speedfreely]

This was a show called computer chronicles. They had multiple guests on each show and they just needed to push through the segments.

[@tristanholland6445]

It is segment for a TV show relax.

[@elyuw]

He said that only because he wanted to see as much as possible from her demo in the allotted time. He's not hurrying her up to get it over with.

[@Youtuber-uz5hc]

Please get yourself some help. You sound unhinged

[@daniel-m4q3p]

I remember tossing Susan's salad, such a hairy beefy salad, at times i thouht i was eating arbys and 5 billow pads at the same time.

[@TheBlackClockOfTime]

hi marc + 𝕏