Why VALORANT Keeps killing its own Agents.

Valorant: Why VALORANT Keeps killing its own Agents.
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Footage: • Valorant New Patch 8.0...
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● Published By: Omar (Dittozkul / Dittoz)
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[@antxonitxo]

yeah, lets keep buying their overpriced skins as means of protest!!!!

[@lukaazxd4142]

And their overpriced E-dating bundles!!! We will NOT be silent!!!

[@OfficerPath2048]

Lol.

[@untitledtitle503]

Spoiled iron reyna kids' biggest problem is skins. Wow, what a suprise. Do you know a lot of kids are suffering in Africa?

[@sopa33]

riot keeps nerfing everyone but doesnt buff the actual underused agents, they boutta rename the game Nerflorant

[@eternallywicked]

If i had $10K for every single time i never seen astra get picked bro i would be playing poker would elon musk right about now.

[@foxy4111]

​@@eternallywickedHarbor is already laying in graveyard 😂

[@FerusVagari]

More like CSlorant

[@LimeSlimeee]

Not even a viper main but it hurts to see only one snakebite charge at the bottom 5:04 😭 Yeah idk what they were thinking with these nerfs...

[@NotAzariel]

Fr bro

[@c0nf1dant699]

11 seconds of stall time is a lot i agree with the snake bite nerf but the orb nerf they did too much. Viper is still top pick on breeze and icebox tho.

[@FriendlyFireYT]

@@c0nf1dant699 I can get them wanting to reduce raw stall, which isn't particulary fun/interactive. They should have dropped each molly to 4 seconds. That would have been better. A serious decrease in stall power, but retain the flexibility of two mollys.

[@c0nf1dant699]

@@FriendlyFireYT it is also a good change im too tired with those viper lineups

[@RealityBased]

​@@c0nf1dant699im ok with one Molly but there is no world where it should be shorter than brim Molly. Viper Molly can barely even kill without the orb that you can't even pick up anymore. Honestly they need to just buff the one Molly.

[@DrawAndErase]

The problem wasn't even viper, the problem was that their maps are shit and viper is the best solution for half of the maps... Buff harbor if you want to see a reduction to viper, or buff the stalling sentinels. You can reduce the smoke time down to 12 seconds but why would you not allow her to pick up her orb. It's basically the only other smoke she has and without any sort of indication sometimes under pressure you miss your orb and will replace it, now it's just a wasted ability. You can't make any misdirection smoke plays with it which is super important on controllers and all controllers can do it, but if you've placed an orb earlier you're screwed which messes up clutch situations. The refuel time also got nerfed, I died in a game yesterday because I forgot it takes more to refuel and it killed me. I play a lot of solo viper because as a viper main not many people pick double controller, but with clove that's increasing now, but now I don't want to play solo controller which I've spent so many hours learning because I'm locked out of my abilities. They need to fix their shit maps so more flexibility is needed.

[@darkfrost6393]

Yes.

[@eternallywicked]

DON'T WORRY THEY AREN'T GONNA STOP MAKING SHIT MAPS ANY TIME SOON. ALL THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IS TAKE THE SAME RESOURCES AND JUST PLACE THEM IN DIFFERENT AREAS WITH DIFFERENT COLORS AND THEN CALL IT A DAY. (i was looking down when typing all of this and didnt realize it was all caps but im too lazy to delete it all and retype so...caps lmao)

[@deepanshu00730]

Agreed 100%

[@WintersCharles]

By removing her ability to pick up the orb they made her even more like a sentinel. None other controller has to decide at the start of the round where he or she wants to smoke.

[@Aphlaa]

Viper doesn't either...

[@matmatfr_]

@@Aphlaawdym

[@Aphlaa]

@@matmatfr_ viper doesnt have to decide at the start of the round where she wants to smoke either

[@khangphantruong]

​@@Aphlaa but viper wall and smoke need some kind of lineup to work best

[@ava_niche]

And what's worse is many sentinels can pick their stuff back up

[@EnderKnightBG]

As a Viper main, seeing Viper getting nerfed THIS hard is really unreasonable. The change for the minimum re-activation fuel from 20% to 30% already is a really big nerf, and yet for some reason Riot decided to put the cherry on top by reducing the molly and nerfing the orb aswell. Its like Riot is just straight up killing their agents just like how they did to Skye. And now with Viper nerfed this hard, i don't really find much value playing her anymore, and all those countless hours of finding the perfect lineups and setups are just for nothing.

[@lahirusampath3788]

Yo believe me.i really hate to deal with a viper main.but even i feel bad about this nerf bro.there really no point to master an agent when they do this kinda shit.

[@Xx_8s595a_xX]

as a viper main it hurt me too... I can't even play with her anymore cuz of this, it's not fun anymore , I was really in tears when I saw it cuz viper was the only agent I was comfortable with

[@user-bb1wm2wl3r]

i empathize, my friend, as a chamber main. To be fair chamber got buffs to his kit that made up his core identity recently so i feel they might bring stuff back slowly. I feel they just kill the agent then revive small parts of them later to make them just viable. Not the best approach tho when everything is said and done.

[@eternallywicked]

@@Xx_8s595a_xX same. like i literally have no adoration to even attempt to lock her in anymore which is crazy because like how is that something that is okay? i had made a video on viper being really strong and whatnot and now i feel stupid because i gave tips that just simply won't work anymore. not to mention the disrespect of the silent nerfs that came with her before hand that they just glossed over and tried justifying. riot in a nutshell have absolutely no idea what they are doing and it shows in their core mechanics and gameplay.

[@deepanshu00730]

True, I am a Viper main, and I can find more ways to play with Viper, but where's the fun, it's just boring simple plays where you plant orb at same spot each time. Pickable orb gave me ways to be creative but now orb is not pickable in the game, I am limited at one shot, and if I miss that one shot, its ability is wasted. Mollies too, Viper molly is one of the weakest if the player (Viper agent is not in the sight of enemy because of decay). It doesn't even kill like Pheonix molly or Brim molly, and they made it even worse. They don't have any ideas for their new agents, and all they are doing is ruining old agents.

[@TheCrystalBlood]

I've said this countless times before and I'm gonna say it again: Balancing the game around the top 0.1% is a horrible idea. Because it ignores how over 99% of people play the game and it punishes the average player (which is the common player btw) way too much. It makes the game less complex, more boring and also less fun to play, which isn't good (obviously). So what's the solution? Maybe be a little more willing to buff some things and then nerf them accordingly, without waiting MONTHS to adress them again. I know some people might find aggressive cadences like that volatile, but man does it actually bring some life into the game and make it more interesting for the ENTIRE playerbase, not just the pros. And to add to that, and I know some people won't like to hear this, but the pros should not have anything to say about how the game is balanced. They are literally getting payed to play it. So no matter what changes, it is their job to adapt and overcome it, if they want to win it all. And if Riot wants the game to be more exciting to watch, why not buff some of the more underplayed duelists and get some more action into this game. Those are just my thoughts, but I'm thankful I'm allowed to share them in this comment section. Have a nice day everyone.

[@mendashium]

Riot does plan on doing that in the 8.11 patch but I have a feeling they might mess that up aswell

[@xK41R05x]

bro speaks facts🗣️🗣️🔥

[@sail0r]

Yes bro ,its totally right. PROS don't have the right to say "This is overpower , This gun is broken " They litrally play this game more than 13-14 hrs & master that thing after you say this. (tenz the reason for classic,ares,chember,astra,jett,reyna nerf, he said those words) Other side we after whole day of frustration play game for 2 hrs. or 4-5 hrs. in weekends.

[@GabrielRojasAhumada]

This is a competitive game, it is not overwatch or apex, it is a game constructed around the vct. If you don't like it literally play anything else. This game literally introduced a premier mode so people have a shot at something similar to a tournamentm little timmy that is gold 1 doesn't have the knowledge in the game to use the mechanics of it at it's maximum potential, why would the listen to the crying of a casual?

[@infernomaster1030]

Alright time to get called a Riot glazer I think Riots approach is the best approach for a game like this. First, I think we all have to agree, you should never ever EVER balance a game around the way low ranks players feel, as a solid 90% of the issues they face are skill issues and can be fixed/less problematic with more practice and studying. Second, Balancing a game around high ranks can be a good approach, but that entirely depends on the environment most high rank games are played in. if High ranked games are still lacking in communication but every one is mechnically strong and has good game sense, then agents who require good teamplay to counter, like viper, cypher, KJ, Kayo, Skye, Sova, and Breach can all have their power inflated beyond what it actually is. It can still be unwise to make decisions based on their merit. Also People who 1 trick high skill celing characters (like Yoru or Astra) would also do really well in an environment like that. Basically skill does not equate equally with all agents, and those who's power massively slopes up with skill will be inflated more in high ranks than in low ranks. Now, the Third option, which is Riot's option, is to balance the game around pro play. I feel as if this is the best appraoch for 3 reasons. The first is simply, their the most objective source of data on how strong an agent is, and there's no denying that. If everyone is playing at their absolute absolute best and an agent is dominating, then thats the best telltale sign an agent is OP. If pros are completely unable no matter how hard they try to make an agent work or provide more value than another agent, thats a telltale sign the agent just sucks. Using the most objective data is just going to be the best way to objectively reach a point of complete balance for the game. It's the way it is. Second, to argue your point on the game being "more boring" because there's simply less convoluted things you can do with agents and there's less flexibilty between then, please keep in mind this game is much more akin to games like CS rather than Overwatch, despite what people might tell you. The main focus of this game should be outaiming your opponents, and using strategy to tactically outplay them. Now I'm not gonna sit here and deny that a dude shooting lasers through walls or someone pulling out a rabid fish that stuns you is nothing like CS, I still think the main aim of the game is to use your abilities to give you better positioning, better information, disable your opponents information, and give yourself and your team advantages in duels. An agent only being able to do 1 job shouldn't make the game "boring", but instead should actually make it more interesting, as now it gives you a better reason to pick another agent for their stregths in that specific skill. Agents being less convoluted also shouldn't matter, as the main focus of the game is aiming. Third and finally, I think it's the best decision as the game is advertised as a competitive game. A competitve game should cater to those who play in it's competitve scene. Those who are in lower ranks should be striving to play like the pros, so they should have to understand that something being objectively broken should be changed, and THEY should have to adapt to the changes, not the other way around.

[@azizkash286]

Riot is going on the heavy nerf mindset in valorant. I don't get the point of making it an abilities tactical shooter in the first place

[@Mezurashii5]

It's been the right approach though. Abilities were ridiculous at the start of the game's lifespan, and pretty much every balance change has been very positive until the recent cypher buff.

[@zaygun6019]

@@Mezurashii5I think early nerfs like reducing the jett smokes from 3 to 2, same with skye flash and raze nade from 2 to 1 were good. That was when the game was new and obviously needed balancing. Then the most recent nerf needed was chamber at his peak, he had nearly 100% pick rate and not much lower even in low elo but they over nerfed him. Since then every nerf imo has been unnecessary considering nobody was complaining prior to these nerfs. We worked around playing with skye having flashes on timer and new how to play around it, even pros, same with viper mollies. We played around them. I will concede that viper needed a small nerf, but like chamber they over nerfed her too with this update. Like its getting to the point where util might just be non existent soon. Jett updraft down from 2 to 1 now viper molly, soon cypher trip. Sova scan only twice now. We need some buffs instead of nerfs for a bit. Like im a cypher main and this video just made me realize how many of my sneaky cams will be useless now bc of the sound update

[@Mezurashii5]

​@@zaygun6019 Naah, skye meta sucked. There was legitimately no good reason to pick any other initiator over her in ranked. She was an OP agent in a category with the weakest competition in the game. New jett is better as well now, the double updraft just made for cheap knives kills, the new dash works well.

[@eternallywicked]

@@Mezurashii5 that dash is old news and getting rid of one updraft does nothing when we have maps like icebox and breeze where verticality are superior. not to mention the biggest problem with her knives is not the updrafts but the fact that there is no movement error or fall off. they are not nerfing agents because of the "meta" they are nerfing agents based off the people who main these agents and their creativity. everyone doesn't like updrafts but somehow we're gonna glaze the grim wall? they are lost and confused. next thing you know jett is gonna have only one smoke as well. dont forget that skye is now the only agent in the game that does not have any rechargeable util in the game and everyone is acting like thats okay when its not. its apart of the core gameplay, and they stripped it from her.

[@JackoBanon1]

@@eternallywicked I remember my time in silver-gold ranks at the start of the game 2020-21 when obvious smurfs loved to pick her and kill you with knives and double updraft from impossible angles high up in the map. I'm glad they reduced it to one updraft.

[@Drby_]

I played viper for like 150 hours upon launch. She is now a shell of what she used to be. I remember how she felt and this is like Walmart brand viper now. Switched to brimstone and never looked back.

[@eternallywicked]

GreatValue Viper is CRAZY. 😂

[@jcrickett9979]

Very few times have I walked away from one of your videos without disagreeing on something.... But this one is spot on ... We joked about the "murder" of chamber and jett but its not much of a joke anymore

[@bReAdnurd]

the jett and chamber nerfs were honestly overkill. viper was already nerfed a bunch of times but valorant should honestly just buff the other agents rather than nerfing the agents

[@solarx4166]

all they had to do was buff other agents to complete with viper instead they gutted her like they did astra, and now her pick rate is in the gutter

[@c0nf1dant699]

Well in pro play nothing can replace viper's role so riot decided to just kill her in ranked

[@JBFan1ist]

@@c0nf1dant699 now she’ll still be used just as much on pro play and we have one less agent to have fun on the game. Yaaay! Riot makes decisions based solely on pro play so often that I wonder if they care we play their game at all. It would seem like if half of us simply decided to not play anymore but just watch the games, they wouldn’t care. They don’t seem to realize that basically no sport or e-sports can really retain popularity if people don’t want to play it besides just watching. Realistically it’s not that easy to kill their game by making it not fun, but they sure do look determined to figure out the threshold

[@eternallywicked]

@@c0nf1dant699 thats the problem. pro play is 0.01% of gamers. if you wanted to make a tryhard game like that then just cancel out every single aspect of the game and only let the game be played during vct's or game changers and anything in between. because they are pandering to such a small percent of the playerbase that means majority of anyone who plays their game have to suffer from shit decisions due to riot not taking everyone into account when making these terrible changes. their game is gonna die out and everyone is ha ha about it now but when half their roster is garbage and half the agents they continue to drop every year are also garbage then they'll have no one to blame but themselves when they look at the numbers and wonder why people are just not rocking with their game anymore. this is exactly why Overwatch 2 went from being a pretty decent game on release (i was there on release, 10K queue btw) to being made fun of for the trash changes that they decided to make.

[@funkycrawler619]

Guarantee her pick rate isn't in the gutter because as long as Icebox and Breeze exist she will have a place. She is more niche in ranked but that's healthy. People act like she should be played on every map (and arguably she can if you know what you're doing).

[@Wolfcrafter_HD]

the biggist problem i have with the viper nerf is that i can‘t pick my orb up anymore. I started to learn an intire skill with her orb since the smoke stayed a bit longer after u piked up her orb. i statde doing really good plays with that… and now its useless :c

[@shauryabahal6842]

i think the orb should be pickable back up and if the snake bite nerf is necessary then let it stay at 1 snakebit but increase the damage by 1.4 or 1.5 times where as the cypher cam nerf is ridiculous, as a cypher main it doesnt make sense. Cypher was pretty balanced tbh, he could hold the site as a sentinal should but he was more or less useless on attack and if they wanted to nerf him that bad then they couldve gone with reducing the cage time by 1 second

[@puffaddiqt]

i think they also take into account other agents from the same class like sentiniels, cypher was and still is much better at doing his job than agents like sage or chamber or deadlock; his job being to hold down an area like a site and defend better than other agents. cypher is much better at doing that because his ability is only spottable from really close. dk why they did the camera nerf that was unnecessary

[@solarx4166]

cypher was really strong on attack if you took the whole site, getting back in is very difficult, not to mention how strong cyphers lurking ability is

[@azurefps]

increasing the damage of the snakebite is insane because that gives her even stronger stopping power which is what the nerf tried to change in the first place

[@Techtinkerer3D]

cypher was not balanced. the nerfs were needed

[@c0nf1dant699]

And they named the ability spycam

[@fafnir4945]

Yourself and others have already stated this, but not being able to pick up her orb is too much. As a Viper main only having one snakebite hurts, but I can manage. But not being able to pick up the orb sucks a lot. Every other controller can change where they smoke after the ability cooldown, but now Viper doesn't have that freedom. As you said in the video, she's unfortunately more like a sentinel now.

[@eternallywicked]

yea they gave her the skye treatment because they don't know what balance is. Viper is the only controller outside of Brim that has no more room for error. And skye is the only agent in the game that no longer has any sort of rechargeable util whatsoever. It's honestly pretty sad because I'm convinced they aren't even looking over the changes they are making. They truly just do the most random stuff and then tests is to see what the audience thinks instead of actually doing the research to determine what it truly means to balance out their agents.

[@deepanshu00730]

I agree as a Viper main, its way boring now, there is less ways to be creative now and it's a simple gameplay now all because they want other controllers to be picked more often. They have no new ideas to bring new abilities and modify their new agents and now ruining old agents to make her shit like other controllers.

[@JackoBanon1]

@@deepanshu00730 Well, Harbor is actually the same type of smoker with some creative ideas. His biggest problem was that his abilities are all very controller oriented and defensive which makes them only useful when your team also knows how to use them. Furthermore I only saw him superior to Viper in one map which is Lotus. Now he might even be an option on Icebox and Breeze especially because his wall recharges.

[@deepanshu00730]

@@JackoBanon1 No Viper is still a better option in Icebox and Breeze..... Harbor simply slows, if his wall had a little better ability like concussion on passing the wall, or slower for a longer duration, then it was a better option. Viper's or will still be used for plant deniel in icebox, it's just that now there is one molly and no movable orb.... Viper's strongest ability was smoke screen not smoke orb. Smoke orb allowed her to play in a more versatile and independent manner, because it was movable/pickable. But now, just line smoke screen, once placed orb cannot be used again and Viper will have a hard time for solo clutches, or even solo lurking.... Because now she will be forced to go with her team.... She cannot be replaced with harbor anytime soon. Viper is still a separate category, they just made her boring.....

[@deepanshu00730]

@@JackoBanon1 For harbor, his both high tide and cascade have poor additional effect, most players can counter slow at higher level.... It's like plain wall. His ult on the other hand is one of the least powerful.... It is better at revealing location than benefiting in duels....of course it does help but not much. Maybe then can add something like while inside reckoning, Harbor heals itself.... That way he can fight multiple enemies.

[@jewelcrystal]

I'm a silver Viper main... I can stomach the 1 molly, fuel changes... but I cannot accept that she doesn't have situational smokes anymore by not being able to pick up the orb... I'm now trying to learn another agent... I've been so demotivated to use her at all...

[@someawesomeguy4415]

I play cypher, I spend hours in customs looking for crazy shit, I think cam nerf is honestly valid the more I’ve been thinking about it, there are some crazy ass cams that you might never even know you will have been seen by, examples include split ramp cam where you can see their feet, mid cam where you can see their feet, b cam, breeze cam in halls where you can see their feet, or the attack one where’d you see the main push and halls, while I can’t think of any other attacking cams like this in the current map pool, pearl had a ton of these types of cams in mid, one where I could see a art, one where I could see both mid pushes from top mid, and the one on the satellite dish to watch mid, these cams are broken, and honestly knowing someone’s watching you doesn’t even matter cause all the split defending cams are dam near unbreakable without risking your life, most people who are experienced in fighting cyphers know the common spots, this really just needs obscure cams like the one in bind sands that see hookah but can’t be seen unless In hookah and looking backwards or the one above hookah, honestly a lot of them you probably won’t even notice the sound effect unless you see it cause it will have vision on you for such a short amount of time, examples include breeze cam on b to see through tunnel to mid, sunset b cam to see into mid through door, or the cam that see the feet’s of people in tiles. A lot of feet cams and they aren’t even being nerfed that hard tbh does it suck my mains getting nerfed, yes, but honestly I thought this shit was crazy when I picked him up, then I watched some pro set ups and copied them and went, this is broken, especially in a 5 stack, maybe solo q this sucks more but I see this being healthier for the game and honestly I see another nerf towards cypher or buff for the other sentinels

[@CharlieCharles-rx1qj]

At least make it so you can hear it only AFTER it tags you

[@awildscrub]

Instead of the spycam giving a sound cue when you're being watched, they should've just made it so the spycam dart auto detaches after a few pings

[@eternallywicked]

crazy how some guy chilling inside his home came up with a better solution than a billion dollar company with multiple brains in an office.

[@authorjp]

Then. . . It’s just a worse Sova drone?

[@alexpleb7123]

@@authorjp Not at all, It has more potential for utility than a sova drone.

[@funkycrawler619]

I think with Viper, the nerfs she got was justifiable but the snake bite was overkill. Not even talk about the murder of Skye, but I think the bigger issue with the Viper nerf is that they REFUSE to buff anyone else. Like, Viper is honestly I think now at a point where you cannot touch her anymore but like no Harbor buffs? Astra buffs? Like nerfing will always be better way to balance but no buffs at all is a horrid balance take.

[@abrawolf]

Unironically, buffing sage and deadlock to make their walls stay the whole round until destroyed might have solved the problem, especially deadlock since if viper looks up to break the barrier you can shoot at her through it, plus the time it takes to break it would put pressure on the viper with fuel uptime. This would be especially good on bind where viper is picked a lot for her a lurk set up, and you can just barrier lamps with sound sensors near so she can't lurk up

[@funkycrawler619]

@@abrawolf To this day like Deadlock wall at LEAST should be permanent since it is her signature.

[@sethyzir666]

go through every pro vod from the last 2 years and see how often the orb being picked up/uptime of the smoke actually changed the outcome of the round,/was the sole reason the round was won

[@solarx4166]

14/352 very low lol, most of the 14 is from lotus vods (these are of the vods i bothered to check btw, probably wrong too)

[@eternallywicked]

do you know how many other agents have some sort of util that could single handedly change the course of a round? its the reason why sage walls are strong on eco, harder to break with just pistols and knives whereas later in the rounds thats not a big issue. Kay/O can stall util of an enemy team which can make or break a retake. Skye can heal her whole team to full HP and that makes or break rather or not they can go out and take more gun duels. every single agent has this ability to single handedly turn the round in their favor, but we arent punishing agents for the right reasons. Lots of these nerfs in my eyes come from simple skill diffs and people not knowing how to work around it. There is an answer for every single thing that seems impossible and they are slowly taking that away in favor of making the game easier to play for higher rank players when in reality they are such a small percentage of the player base.

[@infernomaster1030]

@@eternallywicked No way we're saying pro players have skill issues.

[@Browniev2]

@@infernomaster1030 a LOT of them do, NRG are super ass this season with 5 world champs cause they're getting out-brained by every team and they're making really stupid decisions. Don't get me started on Brazil and Japan.

[@eternallywicked]

@@infernomaster1030 not pro players im talking about mid elo ranked players. if anything pro players have it easy because the skill gap is very incomparable to that of their peers and counterparts UNLIKE ranked which is why im saying that because the skill issue is not so apparent that two updrafts or whatever tf should not matter to these people who are all equally on par with one another. i could see if it was ranked where a gold player could stomp a bunch of silvers but they are not nerfing and buffing for the average players they are buffing for the top elite 1% and thats the issue because they are such a small majority of the games playerbase.

[@Mewogrape]

Now, it kind of feels similar to a cypher without cam

[@Sarawin_fps]

i think they should just let her pick back her orb its just unfair the snake bite did enough damage

[@user-cs5uy4qj7o]

now i think viper will have 10 orbs to get ult 🤦‍♀

[@SKYELOUISGOMES-DANGELOMoe]

Love your vids bro

[@boldbolorsaikhan6247]

ditto almost 100 k subs congrats

[@duncandavidson6011]

As a viper main almost a one trick the orb is crushing to me it was the only way to make her work as a solo controller now none of her smokes can move post round start you are stuck and can't help your team

[@majormushu]

I like the cypher change tbh. You shouldn't be able to get 100% info anywhere you choose without there being a drawback. That would be like yoru's TP being 100% silent and invisible so he can just pop up somewhere without warning.

[@abhilashtu3653]

If anyone has the power to do something about this please do, I'm a viper main, I loved that viper can be played in so many creative ways not just nerd lineups, I was about buy a bundle which match with viper's color scheme but not anymore, I SWEAR I don't buy anymore skins vp battlepass etc and prevent anyone from spending money, I know this will not matter much but this is all I can do.

[@Kris-rl8yi]

I hate riot I MAIN CYPHER AND VIPER. I forgot to say I used to main skye

[@placidflunky6642]

as a viper main, I'm just annoyed they still haven't nerfed why shes played so much in pro, the constant reactivations creating lurk timings, she will ALWAYS be played as long as shes the only one that can do it, either decide if your okay with it and add competition for this niche or rework it out of her, they just keep nerfing her flexibility which doesn't really do anything to viper in double controller comps and hurts her in single controller/ ranked immensely as it removes what little flexibility she has, which again doesn't do much in pro as shes always played with a second controller to cover up her lack of flexibility in the first place.

[@WhisperWings_]

I literally picked up valorant as of 3 days ago, have seen a lot about it but am not really an fps player, mostly stratgy games and Fighting games for me. But a friend wanted to try it with me and I always knew about Viper seeming really cool. Got really confused decided to look up some basic viper tips and then got more confused "what do you mean pick up the orb? That doesnt work" "oh I can unlock or get a 2nd bite? That seems nice how do I get that?" Decided to do research which led me here. This might be like...a weird point of view but maybe isnt one you see a whole lot, but man learning how to use smokes....when you're limited to only one smoke that you literally cant relocate....makes learning this game.very difficult not gonna lie. Dont really care about the 2nd bite not being a thing Id just love to like...be able to rethrow my smoke if/when I fuck it up. Sadly am all to familiar with Riot "Balancing" decisions from my time with League of Legends, aka "lets just gut it then leave it for dead because we're tried of seeing it".

[@ionflame8206]

I’m a controller instalock and I still play viper personally edit: her molly does last longer now however, I think it’s like double the time so if someone actually stays on it it will kill them so post plant lineups are still valid, I’m not 100% sure though

[@ionflame8206]

I do still think that the nerf sucks and riot needs to change their way of nerfing agents and determining which agents need nerfs so it’s less pro centric

[@Browniev2]

it's not even close to double the time, the buff was 5.5s --> 6.5s

[@crynthecaralt]

As a low elo viper main this nerf was a slap in the face. Im a silver player who dedicated all my time to learning the agent and how to get creative with her. And all riot cares about is pro play. I didnt play her cuz she was the best agent in the game, i played her because she was fun and i loved learning setups and lineups. Genuinely so disappointing.

[@MysticTN]

Man with Cypher cam they could have the sound BUT A LOT LOWER so that there is a small sound that people could maybe hear for the cam instead of that loud of a noise

[@scorpionxgaming1412]

I think harbor usage rates are gonna skyrocket on breeze from now on

[@joe-yc6in]

After seeing these nerfs and As a chamber main i understand ur pain

[@rosewolff7645]

i used to main viper and sky.... not anymore after their nrefs...

[@Niemand525]

I really don't know why riot feels that it is appropriate to take away gameplay mechanics and depth of characters in order to nerf them. You really do notice riot putting out a lot of patches like this, for example when taking away one tp anchor from chamber, or taking away the second jett updraft, or even that they removed the mechanic where omen could change the speed of his flash. I think its just never a good idea to take away depth from certain mechanics especailly in a game like valorant

[@tekstego9654]

for viper they should've just cut the orb from the fuel, cuz viper is so op, because she can decide when her smokes are up or down. just give it a set second uptime and each subsequent throw it stays up less and less. this will make it so that you can still have your orb for retake, but it removes a lot of hard counter to people wanting to op, cuz they know that the smoke will be up for a set amount of time

[@Xo_Lotls]

Ive spent 60+ hours on custom doing viper lineups only for them to be impossible

[@nothinisworthit]

I dont know, i kinda want to see how these changes play out, they nerfed jett heavily where everyone said she was dead but shes still played a decent amount

[@DinoPon3]

I hate that normal players who only play this game for fun has no say in any of this. We need community servers like Valve games.

[@d1str0]

As an ascendent player i can conclude that Most of there agent changes is based on pro plays. Its evident from years, i play both cypher and viper. Cypher nerfs is alright. It won't gonna make much of a difference other than camera detection. But for viper its a big one.. Nobody plays double controller expct for pro plays. It make zero sens for ranked players to haved nerf down viper smoke time from 15 to 12 seconds. If they wanted to nerf viper they could have just gone with smoke only pickup buy phaze and reduce 0.5 - 0.8 molly duration and give us 2 molly with in total 1-1.6 sec reduced and call it a day. But nope they have to butcher the agent.

[@Kaneki52112]

my viper main friend spent more than 1000 of hours mastering viper and was a die hard viper main becuz of this massive nerf he and many of my other friends have quit the game for good

[@RaisinBran1312]

I think that the viper changes were reasonable, EXCEPT being unable to pick up the orb mid-round. The problem with viper is that there's no "buffing" the other controllers to where they can compete with viper, because she's just fundamentally different in such a brutally effective way. No other agent can lurk, deny info, or fake anything nearly as efficiently as viper can. Having a pro metagame that's so warped around viper is just straight up harmful to the game. If VCT is miserable to watch and play in (which, let's be real, is it actually fun to watch the same viper swamp comp on every map in every game?), it's going to really harm player numbers and game revenue. Like it or not, riot needed to do something about her, and I think they did an alright job. Again, not being able to pick up orb mid-round is a step too far, but hopefully with the addition of clove more ranked teammates would be open to running double smokes, so that viper players can really lean into her strengths.

[@0_penguin_0]

as a lower elo (gold/plat) viper main that spent around 100h on viper in only comp games im just sad cuz now the agent is worth nothing, gotta go back to brimmy

[@diamond5914]

I had quit Valorant a little while ago and recently got in. I was thinking about returning to Viper, until this nerf dropped

[@DaanoontjeGaming]

As a Viper main. This nerf literrally killed my winstreak. All of my lineups have gone from annoying to a bad joke for the enemies. There are some controllers than you can also play on other maps. But Breeze is a different situation. In short, Breeze is my most hated map, mostly because of this update :(

[@mytutu6959]

As a player who only plays Cypher and Viper this really upsets me.

[@_Iceey]

You know the main problem with viper especially in pro play was the fact her smokes are the only ones you can put up and down again. How the mollie nerf imo is a fine nerf. Giving her less stall is okay since she already has so much. But if they really wanted to nerf her in the pro scene and keep her viable in ranked then all you needed to do was make it so you can’t put the smokes up and down whenever you want. Just make it so she maybe even has a little bit more fuel but you can’t choose when you put it down

[@neko3154]

Funniest part is viper is just as strong in pro play still, we play good bit of scrims and viper is still just as common as before. All they changed is they made her pretty much useless in anything thats not asc+ scrims, which is hilarious to me

[@rinelleabwind]

Riot changed other controllers for the last few acts yet viper stayed atop and dominated WHILE being shadow nerfed She is good for her global smokes that can be constantly reused She was almost like a sentinel with her mollies , arguably she had more rush stopping power than KJ. Riot set clear strength and weaknesses for her she's not dead, she'll still be THE HIGHEST picked controller, mark my words

[@krystaelxmeht8429]

I don’t see a problem with the cypher cam nerf. At most the sound gets annoying for pros and lower ranks finally figure out that they can shoot cypher cams to stop the annoying sound.

[@Bladesoul583]

I can't spy with a spy cam now :)

[@chic3en887]

What everyone sees: Valorant What I see: Rainbow 6 Seige

[@pandaries3236]

When a controller gets nerfed as hard as the best overall duelist, you know Riot is inept

[@oxfordlog1016]

That camera update was a brainless move by riot. We have dot 3 sentinels for defense out of which deadlock is inefficient (based on what I feel). Riot instead of making deadlock usable, they are slowly making the other two agent (cypher, killjoy) inefficient. Now about controllers. They have killed viper (I knew it was coming). Now we have 5 controllers left. Out of 5, Brimstone is an agent which is only much viable in Bind and not much in any other map. I see Omen and Harbor being used more. Clove is new and good but not that viable. Clove needs time and with small buff, it can be sure viable. Lastly, Astra, I feel the agent is being ignored by Riot. Astra doesn't have much utility to play with which is the only reason it makes it weak.

[@Slimewp]

While I despise the devs of Clash Royale, I will say the balance changes they make DO include the lower ranks and even the new players. Id love to see riot add that

[@Blazolotl]

Viper isn't dead. The molly change reduces her stopping power a bit but she still has more of that then any other controller because of her poison. The Orb nerf doesn't matter on defense at all most of the time and on Attack it's not much of a dealbreaker either. The things that makes Viper good are still there like her ability to choose when to put up and stop her smokes which none of the other controllers have and her global presence. Double smokes is still gonna be busted on Split, Bind, Lotus and Have, Breeze and Icebox are still her territory, Ascent and Sunset weren't Viper maps to begin with and Pearl and Fracture might see less Viper but those are out of the map pool for now and have been for more then half a year now so who knows. Point is Viper isn't dead in the slightest. The real problem is that nothing has changed for the better. We still see Viper utilized in proplay to basically the same degree as before and in low ranks Viper was already struggling to see a lot of play which only got worse.

[@deepanshu00730]

Have you not played Viper before? orb nerf doesn't matter on defense and attack... Do you even play the game?

[@Blazolotl]

@@deepanshu00730 It's more so inconvient then change anything about the viablility of the character. The one thing that changes pretty significantly is that you can't put it on the Spike now if you used it at the start of a round as defender and attacker to give cover while defusing or using molly lineups to stall the defuse. Again on attack it's annoying but not a dealbreaker. Personally I would've made it so it had a cooldown after picking it up, that's how Cypher and Killjoy util works and I think if they wanted to nerf her without making her less fun they propably should have done that.

[@deepanshu00730]

@@Blazolotl Bro, I have literally used smoke orb a thousand times just to make room for my dualist to make entry or to myself make an entry and pick up orb after the entry. I never play post plan lineups as they are less effective with decent players. As defender, I don't know about you, but I have multiple ways to put that orb, and not always on spike, because it's not a good idea to diffuse the spike by smoking it as enemies can simply spam the smoke. Looks like you recently started playing valorant and are used to typical game set that most players follow. Orb with a cool down like 6-8 seconds was a better idea than removing the pickable orb itself, but the orb itself was pretty balance, they could have just added a small cool down and it was a perfectly fine. Viper is different because of her line smoke and only other agent is Harbor that can do line smoke. They could just buff Harbor, if they wanted to, instead they nerfed Viper for balancing pick rate. Even now in pro-play, Viper will still be picked more, and it will not change a thing, because she is the only better line smokes. They just made her less fun to play with.

[@Blazolotl]

@@deepanshu00730 The thing is I do agree. The game decides to nerf its characters to the point where they are actively less fun but doesn't buff characters enough that need it. The orb change is not very good I agree but still her viability does not really change because no other smokers does what she does but it's a bad change because it removes flexiblity from her which makes her a less 3-dimensional character and removes strategies that people were using before or makes them more complicated. Also yes postplant lineups are not important but putting your orb on the spike was pretty common before just like how you smoke yourself on the defuse as any other controller to give yourself the tiniest bit of cover. It's not a huge deal but it also just shows how her character is less flexible now. They should be looking at their characters in both ranked and proplay instead of only the latter because the casual players make up the biggest part of the community. It really feels like they actively wanna drive their older players away with no there being basically no changes this entire episode aside from a new agent and fucking skin bundles. My comment was more to show that Viper is still very strong not to defend Riots horrible decisions.

[@deepanshu00730]

@@Blazolotl I do agree. I hope they bring back pickable orb again, otherwise I will stop playing Valorant. I play valo for fun not for my career, I don't wanna stress over hundreds of line ups just to land my orb accurately in one go.

[@Thepenguinman11]

Bro riot just keeps nerfing agents, like every character only has one of each ability now.

[@dragonitestar7864]

ive been play cypher since he came out and I was ever to wonder if hes gonna ever get a buff which he did and I love it his nerf is not too hard but killing viper thats even more harsh Also been hearing when shaghai masters comes i heard their gonna balance duelist which why???? i think the only agent that needs to be put back is breach way too many flashes... But we will see what happens next.

[@Mezurashii5]

The funny part about the cypher changes is that he was perfectly balanced before they buffed the fuck out of his trips for no reason. The sound cue isn't too bad, but it's lazy. The problem with cypher is that his utility can go in places where it's impossible to find or break, but the way to fix that is reworking the mechanics of putting his util up, not trying every random tweak you can come up with.

[@murrkie6928]

People wouldn't like if devs balanced around players because Jett and Reyna would be nerfed and you know that would kill 30% of the community that crutches those agents.

[@Otosama420]

The problem isn't with balancing or changing the meta. The real issue lies within Riot's lack of Imagination and not listening to community feedback. As you know Riot is an insanely "cheap" company when it comes to giving back to the community (just see the lack of content on the game or the overpriced skins) but now it seems that they are even being cheapskates when it comes to agent development. New agents are pretty much a mess, no real or unique abilities to speak of and no unique way to play them. Therefore what they thought was best was to just nerf decent agents "to shake up the meta", instead of introducing agents that will have their own unique flavor when it comes to abilities and bring their own meta into the mix. Basically Riot is not spending enough on R&D and instead think that its best to "NERF" agents to suit their financial goals. Overwatch 2 by comparison has become insanely fun to play these days, especially with the new agents and how they integrate into the META.

[@authorjp]

If certain agents are way too good, picked too much, and are necessary to win certain maps and are terribly hard to play around, of course they get nerfed. It’s simple science.

[@ahriannamia9637]

I just learned lineups for viper and then they nerf her so hard that she isn’t even playable on her best maps anymore (in my opinion) had a Valorant crisis on who tf I should play now

[@firework8140]

It sucks Riot focuses too much on pro play. It makes the game try hardy, not fun, stressful. While the agent releases seems like for casual players, with Iso, Clove having high solo play potential, the tweaks to character seems to facilitate only pro play. Like, wth is that Skye nerf???

[@ahmadax2]

I think the problem is instead of buffing weak agents like iso and deadlock they destroy good agents

[@Definition_2]

They fucked up Cypher.

[@nischalthapa2460]

I thought there was no way there could be abalance team worse than that of league of legends. But Valo team are proving me wrong time and time again

[@diamondguy-xs4lg]

To all the cypher mains, the nerfs to his cam and trips are not that bad, also cypher is still strong and is still the number 1 meta sentinel since kj’s downfall, agents like viper and chamber got it much worse and now viper is in the same spot as chamber, Jett, Astra, sage, kj, etc

[@darkfrost6393]

usually i dont really fully agree with you but this video is 100% spot on. everything about this nerf is so stupid. why ruin 2 perfectly good agents that arent even breaking the meta it seems they only care about esports too because viper had a ~48% pickrate last year for esports so they're gonna nerf it but then reyna in just normal competitive games outside of esports with a 55% pickrate and is not getting a nerf. I'm not saying that reyna needs a nerf im saying that viper was perfectly fine as she was and removing fundementals from her agents kit is an aweful way of changing up esports while ruining anybody who plays viper with however long they spent learning her weather it be 10 hours or 300 hours

[@malekgroot]

In my opinion if they nerf agents aggressively they should also buff agents aggressively and they should start doing balance changes much more often just to shake the meta like maybe they nerf viper that much and just buff harbor greatly and make him a top agent nerf Cypher and maybe buff deadlock or chamber make them really strong

[@romeojuliet3268]

6:00 you and reyna both holding this angle, please tell me you won this interaction

[@sorenjkj2972]

Chamber mains honest reaction

[@imXenoid]

Nah she’s still perfectly viable. Her smoke uptime was reduced by 1 second and vipers AT MOST picked up their orb once a round. That’s not crippling. The biggest change was the snake bites so post plant line ups with double snake bites is no longer a thing forcing a peek. Definitely changes her post plant play style but overall not crazy

[@deepanshu00730]

Bro, as a Viper main, I am okay with 1 molly or even no molly but not with unpickable orb. They literally killed Viper's playstyle. I was literally picking up orb like 3-4 times in a round if i was alive. For attack, if made to entry to post-plant, from blocking site and playing aggressive, orb is much more useful than a molly. She is ruined. She is now a bland agent with no more creativity. Her main problem with pro plays was her wall, and her molly and orbs were balanced. She is useful because of her wall, not orb or molly. Valorant makers are high on smokes that is literally nerfed Viper's smoke.

[@rinelleabwind]

Things i dont agree with on this video 0:59 wdym viper was never super dominant she had a 78% pick rate in madrid, if thats not super dominant then i dont know what is 1:27 She is good for her global smokes that can be constantly reused She was almost like a sentinel with her mollies , arguably she had more rush stopping power than KJ. Riot set clear strength and weaknesses for her she's not dead, she'll still be THE HIGHEST picked controller, mark my words "not suitable for pro play" is a overstatement 3:05 well ya they dont want us to completely rely on lineups to win post plant its a tool to delay for a bit, not a trump card viper molly is still really good because the vulnerable makes spamming already very good 11 secs of that is just too good and has no proper counterplay honestly

[@ShadowAngelS2K]

yeah idk... Viper imo is really difficult to play in Soloq already, now its even more punishing. Cypher is strong in comp, but I feel like him being strong is him playing mind games. Also if you know common trip spots and have Raze or Sova then he is really fragile. Raze is super popular right now. I'm not a big fan of killing agents to make other's shine, imo they should buff other agents before nerfing others

[@jordansfinalform]

I'm a chamber main after the nerf and can attest his absolutely dogwater. They need to give my an 2 trip and make some changes to his teleport.

[@PuhlusMaximus]

Imagine playing Sheriff to Radiant with mostly Viper and you cant do ur plays anymore. Luckily nobody is doing this rn... 😮‍💨

[@FRUNk808]

They do this in LoL.... they nerf the most picked agent/champ. I believe there was a yt vid of a dev explaining all of this(for league atleast)

[@Somebody0960]

I barely play Cypher but I think the cam nerf is completely useless, when have you ever heard someone say his camera being silent was OP?

[@pecan_pie4602]

as a cypher main i agree

[@manthansohoni1255]

i wanna see a valo where everything is more powerful than less

[@rudranewaz6664]

Can't wait for Riot to remove Raze 1 Sachel cuz they did my Jett updraft dirty

[@nhanvuong4760]

I much rather have them do something more creative like what they did with jett or chamber rather than just removing an ability.

[@NotVoidly]

im sorry but my opinion this nerf was a long time coming and i really am just sick and tired of breeze being an instantly lost map if you dont fill viper

[@stanleymullis2554]

This patch was a nAts nerf

[@jacquesblack3080]

what's interesting about this to me is the inconsistency. Viper was nerfed because of pros and cypher? I'd argue his nerf is for the noobs.

[@UhohitsRenaudV4]

Cypher and Viper still too strong

[@nacun4740]

the extra molly is so important and u going use it alot but by riot removing it viper kinda sucks now becasue not only u cant delay pushes as efficiently there are other uses like getting enemies out of certain positions with 2 mollies (the corners in b main in sunset when retaking and behind the small wall) vipers nerf made her even worse on breeze (cancer map)

[@h1natatach1bana35]

i dont understand why games dont just listen to their community's tierlists for the agents and simply buffing the worst ones and nerfing the best ones to try and make all the agents equally playable and so people can just pick based on preference, a lot of people put so many hours into an agent just for it to become unfeasible in ranked and they either have to try a lot harder and end up deranking or change their preferences based on what the game chooses

[@bowser2lux]

To be honest, I don't really understand the point about communication at the end. Communication with the community has been almost 0 lately. Back then we still had Morello on the Valorant team, who interacted with the community like no one else. When he left the team, it was a huge loss for Valorant. Then every few months there was the official “Ask Valorant” format on the official website, and that too: gone! Content creators who don't live in NA hardly get any additional information about future plans, and no longer get early access to new agents and maps (which is probably due to leaks, but it's a shame anyway). And what about things like the replay system? Is it being worked on or not? What about ranked? The ranked system is far from perfect, and especially for a game that places so much emphasis on ranked, such a system should continue to be improved. When was the last time we saw significant changes to ranked? Are they working on it? Or do they think it's good enough? No communication at all.

[@Xo_Lotls]

And as a viper and cypher main yes this sucks

[@guilhermepeixoto3218]

worst than nerfing everyone is not buffing someone. Some agents are not played because they are not good. Astra is not good, Yoru is not good, Fade is only playable on Lotus (on every other map Sova is miles better). we need some buffs. Dont make them broken, make them all useful at their own style. Give a smoke to Brim after 2 kills or 60 seconds, Give another star to Astra, remove yoru from the game, Take out the range limitation from Fade or at least make it a little bit higher or make her ult cover more ground but last 1 second less. the game needs a lot of improvement and they seem like they dont give a f***. Seem like they play the game themselves and become tired of playing against some agents and then nerf them cause they dont wanna play against them anymore.

[@c0nf1dant699]

Why tf remove yoru he is such a strong duelist on breeze

[@user-jv9xb5wz5c]

Tbh i quitted all Agents that require a Learning Curve simply because of the Agent Changes and new Maps. I have better things to do in Life so i play only Simple Smokers Initiators and on rare days Duelist.

[@Azraelleah]

They went way too overboard with the viper nerfs. I also found it funny how they buffed cypher just to nerf him again cause they made him too strong 😂😂😂

[@jurasicers.r.o7174]

I think they shod do it like league does insted of nasive changes eveey second patch they realece small changes every patch. Like nerfing Viper slowly bit by bit insted if guting her in sexonds.

[@ulyssescasio9939]

Instead of nerfing agents to balance pro play, why not just create an agent ban system in pro play? If they don't want to see Viper on Icebox every single time, just apply agent ban. This way the pro players will utilize other agents to have some variety.

[@naptime_2390]

1:24 Where does the idea of making her not suitable for pro play even come from? Viper was was always map specific, and on those few maps she was *too* good. So they balanced her to be in line with other controllers on *her* must pick maps. This is just a ridiculous take TBH.

[@Techtinkerer3D]

Honestly viper was too powerful in all ranks. Her pit is too strong and having such a huge smoke (with decay, not seen in any other agent), 2 mollys (only kj hasdthis other than viper but atleast her molly is breakable and harder to line up) AND a pick up able orb smoke that also does decay to work along with molly to insta kill diffusers with the molly. People got too comfortable with viper in every map. To the point where breeze was unplayable without viper. I think these nerfs were long overdue

[@deepanshu00730]

Bro, looks like you need to review everything again. Have you ever played Viper? A single KJ molly can kill without firing a single bullet, but a single Viper molly cannot (in exchange for decay). Same for Brim molly or Gekko Molly or Kayo molly, they all can kill. Viper orb is pickable, because it is harder to place that orb, have you even tried to put that orb for one way? It's now bland and plain, no fun with orb. Your abilities are limited to only one site or say one place or useless if messed up orb placement. Viper ult is perfectly balance, have you ever faced raze Nade or brim ult while inside that pit. And that pit costs you 9 ult points, for the cost of 9 ult points that ult is perfectly feasible. Also, that pit has it's own down fall as you cannot see player from outside, when they can simply enter from any point. It was Viper wall that made her useful for makes like breeze icebox, not orb not molly. Riot don't have any idea for their new agents and they are ruining everything. Why will people play other controllers when they are simple no fun to play??? Most primary controller are useless, Astra, Harbor, Omen is not even a proper controller, he is a dualist who can smoke just like Clove