Cards So Mean We Took Them Out of Our Decks | Commander Clash Podcast 147

[@TheQuarrelsomeOne]

Richard and Seth not understanding the comment from last week, despite it being the crux of like 50% of their arguments against any given card/strategy on this podcast, is as close to peak comedy as we have ever gotten.

[@Triforcer]

I desperately want this to be next week's top comment

[@Neeo-u1j]

Top comment top comment

[@manglemonster]

On the off chance one of the crew see this and still don't get what we mean: the original comment was talking about Richard and Seth's tendency to assume that playing any kind of disruptive effect - even extremely mild ones - will immediately make you archenemy. The most egregious example of this recently was of their evaluation of High Noon (the two mana rule of law that you can cash in later as removal) in the OTJ card review episode. The were talking about having to fight off 3 draw steps and 3 combat phases, ie the entire table dropping everything and leveraging all of their resources to spite you for the great crime of playing a rule of law. This line of reasoning is particularly common from Richard I feel, to the point that if I were to make a bingo card for a commander clash card review episode I would put "Richard saying some completely mediocre card is actually trash because 'it will cause everyone to gang up and stop you'" as one of the boxes.

[@Triforcer]

@@manglemonster don't forget the what if they have the perfect counter for this card or strategy they both love that argument as well.

[@Trebbih]

They will read this comment, still not get it and not open this thread to see the follow up explain the context. Then say maybe by next week the comment will make sense to them and move right along

[@nsmjohn]

Crew: it's too mean to casually slap other players. Crim: is it though? It's just part of the game!

[@seanedgar164]

Yeah Crim saying his goal is to ruin or "shut down" everyone's game hits it on the head

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

we need more crims and less whiney people who hate being interacted with.

[@nsmjohn]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 crim is actually my favorite member of the crew. His philosophy mismatch always cracks me up though

[@gemyniraptor8626]

Crim's style isnt a problem though, the problem is often players acting like they aren't playing hard core control, and low roll their deck power when they sit down and then everyone gets mad when they play things like Stasis and free counters. Crim is up front about what he's about. he doesn't lie about what he's gonna do. A lot players that want to be like Crim do so while not being honest about what they are doing

[@HamptonHampton-v2n]

You guys should do a video going through every irl deck you each currently have. Edit:Maybe everyone’s top 3 irl decks

[@datbrorito8862]

Or they could each do their top 3 to play

[@_claymore]

didn't Crim mention at some point that he has ~30 or so decks which are all variations of UBx..? that would be a looooong video :D

[@BingbongRecto]

Yeah I’d love a breakdown of Richards birds

[@fitnesshunter6302]

​@BingbongRecto definitely. I have always wondered what birds looked like now

[@110019a]

I want to see all decks

[@gemyniraptor8626]

rebuttal to Crim on the free counters: we have a guy in my home casual play group that plays Tatyova Landfall stuff, and it is essentially a combo deck. We try to interreact and stop the snowball, and it never matters if they tap out because he always has the freebies. free spells are, were and always will be a mistake and i wish WotC would stop making them

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

either that persons deck is too strong for your table or it is fine. "mistakes" are relvative to competitive play.

[@gemyniraptor8626]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 i dont disagree that its too powerful for our table, your statement isnt a rebuttal but supporting my argument because i'm saying that "free cards" cards that subvert the basic resource managment balance of the game are a problem. it's literally the same problem colorless artifacts have had historically and why most good artifacts these days are now colored, because Design afer several stumbles realized that subverting the resource restrictions of color and cost breaks the game balance

[@mfitkin]

Crim’s “counterspells are cEDH” voice is just Professor Frink 😂

[@DylanHunter64]

I think last week's comment of the week is regarding the philosophy that Richard sometimes states about a card that seems like it could be good, like Winter Moon or that blue extra land drop hate card, that if you play those cards, players will just automatically ignore everything else and just kill you for it.

[@ajellis3914]

What’s the especially maddening is how easy it is to counteract that argument as well. If this sort of stuff becomes baseline, like crime suggest, you can’t just focus all three people exclusively.

[@eon2330]

Yep.

[@cameton_youtube]

Crim is genuinely an enigma to me sometimes lmao

[@jameslamb4846]

That's because he's good

[@CharlotteMimic]

Yeah, I do not understand any of his opinions. "Locking a player out of the game is not mean." ?????

[@donb7519]

@@jameslamb4846 he is not good and admits it but let's face it most people don't watch commander shows to watch people be pros

[@josephcerasuolo3563]

@@CharlotteMimic his point is that commander players, especially those that have only ever played commander and no other format, are soft. For example, land destruction is not mean, even Mass Land Destruction isn't mean if you can capitalize and gain an advantage, and what is stopping ramp/landfall decks without LD? They're the most powerful deck type in the format and we can't interact with them en masse because... it's mean? Having 10 or 20 mana when the rest of the table is dropping a land per turn is mean! And I play green! I love ramping! Getting the biggest dudes out and being an absolute timmy is my jam, but I win a lot of games simply because people think LD is mean. I specifically started building decks without green because outside of my home play group there is nothing stopping me from ramping like crazy, my home group is the only one that'll run Break the Ice or Terastodon to stop my and other players' ramp bullshit. There are no real mean cards in MTG, just problems you have to learn to problem solve, and sometimes the deck you play doesn't have the answer. Not all decks will have answers, but enough of them should that at least one person at the table can stop the person drawing their deck with a notion thief, or stop the dude tutoring by playing oppo agent, etc.

[@eon2330]

He is saying, playing a specific commander designed to give bad cards to people, giving a bad card to you isn't mean. He is essentially saying playing cedh and pub stomp cards in casual is toxic/mean. He is essentially saying cedh combos and cards shouldn't be in casual and casual win cons are fine. He dislikes over powered things. He dislikes most. Very clearly. Increadibly riskless decks like green because of imaginary mental game rules not being punished and increadibly strong risky strats like mana rock dumping not being punished because of bad players. @@CharlotteMimic Syr into mind crank is a 2 card combo thats not infinite but its super bs to drop in casual. Essentially he hates green and land decks not being punished because cry babies. So his counter spells and interaction do nothing because the green player sits at 33 mana and 33 cards because nobody killed them or attacked them or valued their 4 to 5 turns of land ramp and card draw. Essentially. He hates green

[@camfunme]

"Mean" cards are those that siphon the fun from one player to another. Usually this means that the most "mean" cards deny an entire resource type in an ongoing or repeatable effect and are usually harder to remove. e.g. Aura Shards destroys not only all chosen artifacts/enchatments but also all future artifacts/enchantments, especially if they can make creature tokens at instant speed or flash creatures, and as it is an enchament it is slightly harder for some strategies/colours to deal with. So if your social contract is that you won't necessarilly play the most optimal cards, your deck doesn't have any non-squirrel creatures, or every card is an enchantment or enchantress, etc., then you kinda don't expect to get locked out by Aura Shards'ed. Annecdotes: 1) In my very first commander game I played the Edgar Markov precon and one opponent at the table played Glacial Chasm with the ability to loop it with multiple Crucible of Worlds' type effects. With absolutely no way to deal with that effect I just "draw pass" for the next 10+ turns. 2) In another game much later on, an opponent was playing Muldrotha and they kept looping Pernicious Deed from the graveyard to remove all 5 cmc or less permanents every turn. We had answers, but they got countered. In these games, my agency went from playing the game, to I might as well not be here. And usually the player who plays isn't close to winning so it feels weird to just end the game there. P.S. I think Crim doesn't think like this because he plays cEDH level and the social contract of that is that everything within the rules goes. So in cEDH losing your entire board, your lands being completely locked by Stasis, your commander being locked behind Dranith Magistrate, and every "winning" card you play being countered isn't unfun, it's just the cEDH norm.

[@PalPlays]

Crim: "Winter Orb and Stasis aren't mean!" *player casts Open the Way* Crim: "I CAN'T PLAY THE GAME!!"

[@JonReid01]

Got em

[@marquezFTW]

He fried his brain on anime

[@crisgon9552]

You can remove Orb and Stasis way easier then you can punish ramp strategies

[@Cybertech134]

@@crisgon9552 That's irrelevant.

[@sjfortson]

Crim doesn't think anything is mean because he plays so much magic that being shut out of one game isn't a big percentage of his playtime.

[@shonmatthew]

Thats not true, he thinks dockside is mean for letting people play the game.

[@pinkstarburst99]

That's an interesting thought of magic playtime. I don't get that many games in a week or month. Maybe 2-3 a week if I'm lucky.

[@zweis]

He thinks Green cards are mean

[@EmmyDiesAlone]

magic isnt solitaire - the interaction between decks is what makes the game fun. Having one person power their way to such a commanding board state that there's no real way to interact with it isnt fun for other people either. A lot of the stuff that people call mean is necessary so that other's can play the game too. And from the caster's perspective, it's not "can i play card" it's "can i play X card while people are trying to stop me from doing so" that's the actual game.

[@shonmatthew]

@@BludMun resource denial he's fine with but not boons, simple thing to point out isn't it?

[@MakeVarahHappen]

It wasn't just land destruction but also saying "blind obedience would be better if it just extorted because the etb tapped gets you killed" or "descent into Avernus is stax" or like, most preview cards in other casts.

[@TheHomieNess]

Much respect to the goldfish crew for consistently putting out quality content

[@MTGGoldfish]

Thanks :)

[@imaginarymatter]

Annihilator and by extension edict effects feel like a mechanic that gets weaker every set. There's so many treasures and cards that make tokens that decks have an ever increasing pool of expendable fodder to feed to sacrifice effects.

[@laytonjr6601]

Sheoldred's Edict is the counter-exemple, but I did sacrifice 5 treasures to Phyrexian Obliterator once

[@TheSmartCinema]

Annihilator, I agree. But regarding Edicts in general, I'd say it's opposite now that we have Ward on everything. My Crackling Doom is more consistent against things like Voja Tivit or Miirym than any spot removal could

[@laytonjr6601]

@@TheSmartCinema The only thing ward did was making me put more board wipes on my deck

[@ben_clifford]

I played my colorless deck last night, and people played as though they were scared of the Titans. I finally landed and attacked with a Titan (thanks to haste from boots). The Titan died before my next turn, and the player I attacked with annihilator went on to win 3 turns later.

[@ryanmurphy6017]

Urabrask is the best of the original preators because it's the only one that doesn't cause the entire table to look at you

[@nykthosacolyte5710]

It's also WAAAY stronger than people realize.. people act like it's bad compared to the rest but what they don't look at is the CMC differences. He gets to do a lot at a relatively low cost, you also get to influence how combat works way better than people realize. Firkraag for example loves Urabrask since it means flying answers become your pawns and due to being goaded they can't block you on later turns either.

[@nickel-bolas951]

He also is just a value enabler for whatever strategy he's a part of, versus the others which are mostly hyper-pushed goodstuff. Urabrask kills people. The other 4 just get people killed.

[@laytonjr6601]

@@nykthosacolyte5710 White has several cards for 1 or 2 mana that make your opponent's creatures enter tapped. Paying 5 mana for Urabrask isn't great

[@nykthosacolyte5710]

@@laytonjr6601 that's white though, white doesn't have haste as a normal thing. The two together is what makes him great.

[@tellable9425]

I love Crims voice this cast. "BUT CRIM YOU PLAY CENSOR AND FORCE SPIKE THATS CEDH!?"

[@robertglover2676]

I'll never forget Crim at commandfest flashing in a notion thief responding to a raffine connive, effectively discarding my hand while he drew 4 cards. Damn you!

[@christophermiller34]

Somehow the mind slaver conversation was completely about whether it is very powerful, and not about the fact that one player doesn’t get to play magic for at LEAST 20 minutes. That can be a bit mean 😁!

[@HoosierBoy]

I stopped playing Cathar’s Crusade until I saw someone just track every time it triggered on the enchantment itself, and then note what count Cathar’s Crusade was on when a given set of creatures entered together. It turned the work from updating X creature counts individually, to always updating just two sets of counters: one for the set of creatures that came in, and then another to update the global CC count, and it was simple subtraction to figure out a given creatures power.

[@yoyoguy1st]

That’s actually a pretty good way to do it. Unfortunately it probably won’t work with the deck I run it. In oketra she makes a token on each creature cast and then when the actual creature etb’s. So they aren’t uniform. I have definitely thought about cutting the card because it’s a mess.

[@ChadJShonk]

Crim, being a sociopath, is incapable of understanding the assignment here.

[@pbbppbbp]

nah fr, i genuinely can't tell if he's just being a massive troll or if he actually is incapable of having feelings kekw

[@troybone6849]

He woke up 2 hrs early to orient his jacket pins instead of reading up on empathy lol

[@KVGKQuake]

​​@@pbbppbbp Crim is my favorite. He is 100% trolling AND incapable of feelings

[@sunflowertheog]

ngl the more i play edh the more my "cards that i think are mean" become "cards i think are good" i still don't run notion thief or opp agent, but blood moon? hell yea ive never thought twice about including aura shards or grave pact edicts

[@donb7519]

​@@sunflowertheogblood moon is 100 percent mean youre shutting half of the decks in the format out

[@Steeks]

The card: destroys one persons lands, makes them unable to play lands or spells for the rest of the game, phases everything they own out, freezes their bank account and lets you slap them in the face each end step. Crim: That is NOT a mean card?!?! Is that mean?!?? It's just funny dude!

[@vaporeon344]

Honestly in Zevlor this does sound kinda hilarious if it has a singular target.

[@zweis]

Ok but depending how expensive the card is that is pretty funny. If someone dropped an uncard on me like that I'd laugh my ass off

[@vaporeon344]

@@zweis You sir are a man of culture. Welcome aboard.

[@TheWoelrat]

The card needs to have a better split second where people are not allowed to concede in reaction or after the card to be mean.

[@kovala]

Crim’s act is so tired. I can’t believe they let him stick around. He adds nothing to the conversation.

[@sevenangerywasps6103]

@25:25 "Newsflash, Beregonds not my favorite deck anymore before of this." Would love to have an episode of the podcast talking about yalls favorite decks! Crim and Tomer are pretty open about what they have/play but Richard and Seth are much quieter about it besides birds and panharmonicon decks 🤠 Also would love an episode of Clash with no ramp at all and see how the game and decks play out! I'm sure Crim would agree to this 😂

[@raccoonhatcity7627]

I've been putting the mean cards back in!

[@Yourbeautiful666]

You should. Don’t feel bad for playing good cards!

[@chickenwyngs3646]

I started playing too nice now I'm getting curbstomped

[@TheForeverRanger]

I run a mono-blue Aura deck and I give zero fs about how cruel it can be.

[@Pandaman64]

@@chickenwyngs3646 Big same. I came back to the game, and after reading a number of reddit threads and hearing a bunch of videos talk about how careful you need to be to preserve others fun..... I got curbstomped several games in a row, after my deck accomplished almost literally nothing. No, I think I'll be the jerk for a little while. Hold this arcum daggsun.

[@kurowasanabe]

I thought for sure Crim would say Rampant Growth.

[@DemonaruMusic]

56:00 If you get Kenrith's Transformation, there's at least ways to try and get it killed. but if you're outside of green and/or white? The odds you can actually get rid of oubliette drastically dwindle. You sit there with no answers. IF you're in the colors to get rid of enchantments? RUN ENCHANTMENT REMOVAL there are SO MANY impactful important game pieces people play in enchantments that are left unanswered. But most colors don't have the option. (YES I KNOW FEED THE SWARM EXISTS ITS ONE CARD THAT DOESN'T SUDDENLY SOLVE THIS)

[@Balileart]

Pharika's libation is basically the only other enchantment removal in black, but won't hit the target you want if it's against an enchantment deck.

[@jackl8025]

Richard: [walks away] The rest of the crew: Internet issues!

[@emtee2925]

Vorinclex is also answered by floating the mana before it drops and then using your removal if the removal is instant speed, so it won't even lock any lands.

[@shonmatthew]

I thought the answer was just a clone

[@bryanstrahm9961]

Crim: Yeah locking someone is out of the game isn't mean. But Dockside accelerating you fast is mean.

[@donb7519]

And even then only accelerating you fast if other people did too

[@zweis]

He's kinda right though 💀💀

[@donb7519]

​@@zweisno he's not dockside is just a ritual that scales depending on the table thats not mean. As crim would say its just part of the game

[@hyperonmonster]

I kinda agree. I have more fun fighting against stax pieces than someone with a bunch of resources.

[@bryanstrahm9961]

@@hyperonmonster I have the wholly opposite view. I find it much more fun for someone to pop off with big plays than to be stax'd to the point of being unable to play. Dockside into a big play that wins the game or meaningfully advances the game is a lot more fun to me than being given Pyromancer's Swath and playing top deck simulator until I eventually die.

[@cadelefler969]

I'm shocked Dictate of Erebos/Grave pact didn't come up. I quickly took those out of any decks once I realized how locking people out of playing creatures made them feel.

[@timbombadil4046]

For Crim "mean" means cards that don't force players to play magic as Richard Garfield intended. Essentially breaking the mana system is mean, but land destruction, hand destruction, stax, or any other strategy to control an opponent's resources is just a valid approach. It's not an unreasonable position.

[@zotha]

Richard Garfield added Sol Ring, Moxes, Lotus and Dark Ritual into the first several editions of the game. I think he was fine with fast mana.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

It's not unreasonable... It's arbitrary. He has decided that the game is a Bible and Richard Garfield is God so Crim's only requirement is that it must be spoken by Richard Garfield. That is no different than saying "I consider mean all cards that start with an S", you just picked an arbitrary quality.

[@timbombadil4046]

@@zotha Garfield's intentions for what is fair game, or what should be an obstacle, and ability to actually balance the game aren't necessarily the same thing. In other words sol ring was off the mark for general balance but artifact ramp isn't itself a problem. Instead it's about what is fair in the game. Are lands, hands, etc...meant to be as valid of targets as creatures and artifacts? Many EDH players don't agree, and that has consequences. Beyond just what is fair game, what is a fair obstacle to expect? Really dockside in cEDH is arguably better than Sol Ring, and really isn't really any worse in casual as often is claimed. Sure you'll have to wait a few more turns to get game ending mana from it, but in casual the other decks aren't threatening you in those turns. The biggest thing is when dockside's trigger resolves you get to not only break the innate pace of development, but the mana requirements of the color wheel in general. Fetch lands already have massively reduced this aspect of the game, but treasure tokens completely trivialize it. That's really where the magic as Richard Garfield intended jumps from being just a meme to having some truth to it.

[@MOSTLYxTOAST]

@@pascalsimioli6777”but how can THIS card be mean when people RAMP!!! People ramp and draw cards in commander! Can you believe them?!?! I need to play a deck full of cards that make sure the game lasts for 3 hours! It is the only good way to play magic” I honestly find his take on cards and this format nauseating.

[@matustrophic]

Regarding how long it would take to Thoughtseize three players: this already happens when someone draws a reanimate spell and has to check everybody's graveyard like twice a turn until they cast it.

[@jaredwright1655]

It's even quicker, just flash me your hand and I'll find the threat. Checking graveyards for Living Death and resolving it can take a while

[@SenpuuNoMa1]

I think the free spell cycle is an issue in the sense that it removes a layer of strategy. If i strategically wait until people tap out to play my boardwipe or overrun effect or something and then the fierce guardianship, flawless maneuver or obscuring haze come out, i've planned everything out correctly and still got got, i think that punishes tight play and instead disincentivizes players to play around interaction.

[@Lando_nix]

I’m convinced if Crim saw a card that makes a player skip all their turns for the rest of the game would be incredulous that people are calling it mean

[@michaelcollins4534]

Aura shards just needed to remove the word "may" and it would've been fine. Eventually it would have to remove itself

[@nykthosacolyte5710]

No it's fine how it is. It is in a few of my decks... Like Teeg or Maja XD Also if you remove the may you just target an indestructible one you have.

[@michaelcollins4534]

@nykthosacolyte5710 if you include an indestructible artifact in your deck to build around your aura shards, that sounds like fair game to me. But when it's alone on the battlefield, I feel like it should've destroyed itself

[@nykthosacolyte5710]

@@michaelcollins4534 moreso the fun toys already available stuffy doll, mithril coat, the one ring, etc

[@joshuadempsey5281]

Crim talking about death cloud had me imaging the Joker in Dark Knight; "Its not about wining, its about sending a message"

[@Blackstar-rf9yp]

I would do unspeakable things to get a Thoughtseize that hits each opponent. Targeted discard is a big element of black's color identity in 1v1, and it's completely missing from EDH. It's how black is supposed to deal with artifacts, enchantments, counterspells, and combos in general.

[@electromancer2645]

Everyone hates on blue players so much, but as a blue player, this is why I despise black. I hate discard so much. Especially when the opponent gets to choose.

[@thomaslepage5941]

I'll stop playing Kenrith's transformation and others when commanders like Yuriko, Korvold, Prosper and Koma stop being popular. Sorry fam, but if your easy to recast, do everything commander sticks around, you'll dominate. I don't hand over wins.

[@CaptainDubab]

Crim: You can stop be from playing the game and never have a chance to get back into the game. Also Crim: You played Dockside one time? Wow, that's mean.

[@FrancosteinSA]

An alternative to cathar's crusade is the only playable unfinity card: Starlight Spectacular

[@highlander7462]

Saw In Half

[@Jrizzle7426]

​@@highlander7462saw in half is fantastic

[@another505]

Cathar crusade is more annoying for maintain teh dice. But starlight is a pain for math.

[@laytonjr6601]

@@Jrizzle7426 Saw in half is the dream card for commanders that reanimate themselves. 2 ETBs, 2 death trigger, and infinite of those as long as you have the ressources to reanimate

[@Jrizzle7426]

​@laytonjr6601 I run in chatterfang. It's insane with any of the druids.

[@Lornext]

"What's mean is playing the game." The truest statement about EDH.

[@TravvyBear262]

Player targets literally anything, Seth and Richard "first of all, how dare you"

[@KevinWeirG2]

"Do whatever you want to me, just don't get a lot of mana" - Crim, apparently

[@k9commander]

In my opinion, Oubliette is only mean to the mono-red or the mono-black player. At best, they have 1 card in their entire deck that can get rid of it.

[@whirlwindsky]

thats right, no Oubliette on Rakdos please 🙏 gotta hold that Feed the Swarm till I get hit with it.

[@simplyyunak3189]

Mono red has at least 2 answers: chaos warp and wild magic surge

[@TeamSprocket]

if only black had a way to find the card it needs, too bad if only red had a way to turn permanents into artifacts and destroy that artifact, too bad

[@ScarletAxetia]

@@TeamSprocket LIQUIMETAL TORQUE

[@nicolusebrink9997]

The comment about Aura shards makes me believe Crim hates every card type besides instants and sorcerys.

[@jakebswenka]

Richard: I never use mean cards...*cough abused glacial chasm in every deck cough*

[@NoNo-qt4ov]

Crims ability to give the most brilliant takes, and then follow them up with utter nonsense always amazes me 😂. As a primarily blue player, I couldnt be more proud.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Crim on a podcast about mean cards? Cool, can't wait to hear about how every card is fair, balanced, not mean at all and how there should be MORE of them as well

[@jtyree0226]

He’s right too much crying from you guys

[@djredlantern]

The only arguement I can think of for playing targeted discard in EDH is for mono black or RB decks that are graveyard based and auto lose to Farewell

[@qlethsbagofdecks4959]

There are combos with Mindslaver that will allow a lock on all players. For instance, Daretti's Emblem returns it to play at the end of each turn. With Unwinding Clock out and some mana rocks, you basically guarantee a lock on every olayer.

[@SefrisGuy]

I've had 5+ of my turns taken by a Kethis, the Hidden Hand deck, basically an a+b 😂

[@scaredycat3146]

Tbf 9 out of 10 times the game is over if Daretti gets to his ult, one way or another.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, that's true, although if you manage to ultimate a planeswalker (especially without something like Doubling Season) you probably deserve to win.

[@qlethsbagofdecks4959]

@@MTGGoldfish my Deretti deck frequently gets it ultimate.

[@hugovellver5114]

With the amount of removal and creatures decks have nowadays no pw lives long enough to ult

[@ThisIsCarta]

Cathar's Crusade was in my Trelassara life gain deck and between that Archangel of Thune, Sovereign Okinec Ahau, and making angels every turn or other token triggers like Darien King of Kjeldor I retired the deck. Elder Gargaroth's on attack trigger or my 15 "gain one life whenever anything ETBs" effects all just resulted in me placing counters for literally any action. It got to the point where I brought a box of 20's and my Bag of Devouring dice any time I played.

[@MentalCrusader]

15:31 Crim Button

[@Ryadic]

Tomer learning, in real time, his boyfriend is a masochist.

[@dylanadams5412]

Seth searching for a card to compare to Restore Balance when it is literally just Balance (which is banned) but suspended lmao

[@canoli62]

Nulldrifter is SOOO underrated. Its an upgraded Mulldrifter, PLUS it functions as an activation piece for Ugin's Binding. I've been trying to work both cards into many decks, along with Ugin and Arcane Proxy to get the combo cyclonic rift effect.

[@Jakerunio]

My favorite death in any game of commander ever involved getting Mind Slavered. I had a very difficult to disrupt board position and hand, but was at 9 life. I had a snapcaster mage in hand, lost my mana crypt flip on my upkeep, and then topdecked lightning bolt. The most incredible topdeck that was possibly the only way to have killed myself but... my opponent said "okay, bolt snap bolt yourself" and I died lol.

[@coreystelton6551]

Seth's point about Myriad for spells is Zevlor, Elturel Exile. Needs to tap to do it but there are ways around that.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, I just want it printed on actual instants and sorceries.

[@Titanreaver616]

This video really sums up my commander experience pretty well. My favorite card of all time is Smokestack, followed by Stasis and the attrition game plan of slowly eating away at my opponents' resources to create a reaource gap. To me, that's the best part of the MTG rule system. But since people find that mean or salty or whatever, I mostly switched to ramp and especially land based control. But then people find control salty, so I switched to more dedicated ramp strategies. Now, some people find that salty, but fewer than all the other things, so I figured I was never going to make everyone happy, so I just styck with ramp for the most part because it bugs the fewest people out of the things I like. I want to make others happy, but I also want to have fun myself, so until I manage to force Smokestack into being cedh playable, here we are.

[@johngompers7454]

Thank you Tomer for talking about your Zedruu deck. I've been looking for something to replace Celestial Dawn since the rules on colour identity changed; pyromancer's swath is looking good.

[@sayntfuu]

I agree with Tomer, this is note taking time right? I love these inspirational videos.

[@stormycat0905]

Excellent! I've been looking for new cards to put into my decks!

[@Rizso1]

Targeted discard is solid for turbo strats.

[@gemyniraptor8626]

Seth reiterating what ive said for years: Annihilator is a very unfun and busted mechanic. Eldrazi were 100% responsible for my first break from MTG. I remember going to play with my friends at my college lunch table and people were playing Emrakuls and Ulamogs and I was like WTF is this shit what do you mean i just start saccing lands n shit? OG Drazi were dumb cards 100% and they arent any more fun in EDH

[@TeamSprocket]

Take your second break

[@MrCenturion13]

​@TeamSprocket : but he's not wrong.

[@Malik1378]

This feels like the crew discussing whats mean while Crims being a sociopath

[@yodabuddy2112]

The only reason why you would play duress is because you're playing tiny bones and you're not doing it to discard other people's hands. You're doing it to draw yourself a card.

[@Xyariax]

If you really want to see Restore Balance be a mean card just wait for them to cast Teferi's Protection in response to it.

[@jessespence696]

You mindslaver one opponent and you path from your hand to permanently remove their commander or use removal from their hand to do the same thing, you can also set the conditions to win or have the other two opponents lose so much that you basically win. Even near high level play mindslaver will deck people who play too much draw and recursion effects or it will kill the other two opponents to allow you to win on your turn against someone who is spent.

[@Dios.scary.Monsters]

Giant growth. It always just comes out of nowhere and kills people from their broken voltron decks.

[@TheTexasDice]

43:20 don't forget about the one guy who bought a Spanish precon and a Japanese Archangel of Thune because it was 10% cheaper

[@Father-songaming]

Aura shards is the best Richard, keep playing it!

[@MalacathEternal]

Oubliette and Imprisoned in the moon are the best commander removal spells lol

[@jaredwright1655]

Don't forget the green

[@MalacathEternal]

@@jaredwright1655 That and of course darksteel mutation to cover white

[@himaniamawesome]

I think some of this comes down to how often you play. If you play 20 games of commander a week because it’s your job “getting got” is a lot funnier. If you get to play a couple games a week with your friends and get targeted with Annihilator for one or more of those games suddenly you’re waiting for next week to play another game, and the whole experience feels a lot worse.

[@marine5546]

From experience, I can say the meanest card I have played is Perplexing Chimera. Especially when combined with a Homeward Path. You steal the spell and get your chimera back before it resolves

[@kunopumpernikkel215]

Aura Shards does say you MAY - I repeat: MAY - destroy enchantments or artifacts. You do not need to blow up all the stuff. Annihilator is a giant mistake of a keyword.

[@Byteside546]

IMO mana drain is one of the meanest cards. Counterspell is 100%fair but players already get mad at those enough when their 5+ drop gets sniped - and drain can get fired off just to ramp and causes a large mana disparity with 0 extra cost compared to counterspell. We house banned sol ring and mana drain. What 2-3drop in green can even come close? Three visits ain't it, cultivate can't compare. Heroic Intervention is only reactive, while drain is a proactive mana stealing removal effect.

[@vaporeon344]

Honestly, I would much rather have 5 mana drains equivalents than one Fierce Guardianship. One for ones are inherent card disadvantage in commander, so benefitting off of doing so is actually not so awful. It is overtuned, but free counterspells are a genuine mistake in the format, cause you can’t play around them.

[@baltosstrupelos302]

Carpet of Flowers, if we're accepting 1 drops

[@rileybarmore7511]

Mindcrank and bloodchief ascension is basically an infinite combo once bloodchief ascension has enough counters on it. I don’t think it’s necessarily a “mean combo” as it ends the game pretty quickly.

[@unanon_user]

scute swarm, I take this out of precons every time because it always gets targeted and becomes a pain to keep track of. I don't have enough counter dice to keep track of its multiplications

[@Zottelkopf115]

You should make a podcast where you pitch wotc design ideas for blue free spells that arent counter spells for once

[@StingRay0000]

Thanks for the reminder to always bring up your Doran deck in the Rule 0 conversation

[@weebikarp1806]

Commander players just want to sit down at a table, play Solitaire, and then roll a die to decide who wins

[@SpiritThanatron]

I think the stasis Vorinclex might be somewhat less mean than what it used to be due to the rampant use of treasures.

[@Pinfeldorf]

I find myself playing Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos less now than I used to, as the cards very often feel just too damn mean. Some decks don't give a heck, but others are just utterly incapable of maintaining a board presence longer than a phase through it, and I don't consider it good manners to lock someone out of half of their commander games for the week in that fashion.

[@foxrogge6298]

This one person at my lgs has a Mishra eminent one commander deck and has mindslaver in it. He can loop it infinitely and it is quite salty.

[@PalPlays]

Vadrok has SO many SICK toys. - Seize the Spotlight - Impending Flux - Slaughter the Strong - Dack Fayden (he's absurd)

[@MOSTLYxTOAST]

“This card is not mean!!! How could THIS card be mean when people RAMP!!! People ramp and draw cards! Can you believe them?!? Drawing cards and getting mana advantage in commander? THAT is mean! I have to make sure that nobody does anything and every game lasts 3 hours, it is the only way to enjoy the commander format!” …Crim literally needs to relax lol who hurt him.

[@ben_clifford]

55:15 Getting rid of the tuck rule was probably the best change since Commander became a Wizards-supported format. Tucking just felt out of place in a format named after your marquee legend, the card you built your whole deck around.

[@ryanstuck4292]

Currently at 22:47 prediction now that Cathers Crusade came up. He’s going to bring up his boyfriends love of counting and bringing out dice like a prerecorded message every time this card comes up

[@ryanstuck4292]

Yup

[@drunkenproductionz8299]

I listened to this podcast, I actually run a deck with Doran and Stoneskin. I didn't see it as mean, but it was a nice way to get 15 damage on a person in one go

[@brianpendleton2674]

Not me taking notes on good cards to include in my decks.... 😂😂😂

[@beerman2000]

Interesting idea around the "myriad on a spell". It would have to be modal like cyclonic rift, with an alt cost for the myriad ability, or kicker to add targets. A spell with just "myriad" lives in 2 states, OP as hell because you're looking at EVERYONE'S entire hand and discarding their best X (instant, creature, artifact etc) for such a good value that every deck now plays it just for the "peek", or it's so expensive to cast (because it's costed correctly for a card that provides perfect information, on all opponents, at a point in the game) that it's terrible and never sees play.

[@TheDustyPeaches]

I had to stop running spells like Frogify and Eaten By Piranhas in my Alela deck because I would just shut down my play group by disabling their commanders or forcing them to burn removal spells or sometimes even wraths be able to recast their own commanders.

[@callumreilly9107]

I feel like Tomer has been mentioning his boyfriend more recently. I don't know if there's anything behind this, but I'm glad he feels comfortable sharing anecdotes about him.

[@tcgbattlingmaster925]

I don’t think people remember that Aura Shards is a May ability.

[@joshuajordan6632]

Its really fun playing Mana Web into Vorinclex :D

[@brianawalton8566]

Mindslaver.. if you can loop it the best play is to make an agreement with another player to team with you. Let them play there own turns that way.

[@BingbongRecto]

Force of will and negation are mean because they allow the simic player to tap out for ramp and draw every turn

[@NateFinch]

Aura shards is literally the first card I thought of when I saw the video title.

[@dennisyoung6122]

They do this, while I have two decks planned that want ALL the mean cards... WU Lavinia deck with all the toxic cards, and R Zozu Hates Everything deck which punishes doing anything. Just have to dig through all of magic for ways to phase out opponents stuff for the WU deck and making it where nothing phases back in.

[@JoshLitch]

Play pattern every time i play vorinclex: use resources of some kind to play clex, get a few extra mana since im mostly tapped out, pass turn, next turn someone removes it for 1 or 2 mana. Entire board hates me, loves the person who removed it. End result: i am arch enemy, opponent is hero for 1 or 2 mana not untapping. I lose game.

[@samuelbemis8304]

I've been playing "Plagiarize" as like, a 1 turn Notion thief effect. It's caught several people off guards where I got to hit someone's Peer into the Abyss, and another person's popped Midnight clock. Overall it's a much worse card but it's funny value is through the roof surprising someone with it

[@ianleggett8429]

Can’t wait until they do MH3 cards. We have literal Field of Dead on a commander. And I can’t wait until the 4 different podcast episodes that turn into talking about it.

[@billcypher9543]

I played the dimir wheel card with cipher forgetting it’s name ironically and had it on a flier against my friends counterspell deck when he was tapped out, so every turn I hit him he had to discard his hand and redraw me too but it didn’t matter as I kept removing his wincon spells and more counter spells every turn