Zedruu vs Mistform vs Kraum | Tymna vs Grismold EDH / CMDR game play

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Grismold: deckstats.net/...
Kraum | Tymna: tappedout.net/...
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►This game was filmed at The Comic Connection in Oakville, ON
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Music from filmmusic.io:
"Egomont Overture" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licence: CC BY (creativecommons...)

[@supertoast1134]

I guess you played MISSform ultimus

[@MTGMuddstah]

I love you.

[@amarmehta01]

I like the new layout. It allows me to see the entire field. Nice job!

[@xgamingcraftz]

Yeah very clean

[@TCG9777]

the new layout looks B-E-A-UTIFUL! Although I woud miss seeing the commanders on the side. It does leave more space to see the game though. Can't wait to see Monday's game.

[@MTGMuddstah]

I must have mispoken lol. The second overlay is out Thursday.

[@TCG9777]

@@MTGMuddstah oh lolz. Can't wait till Thursday!

[@jackinthebox1993]

As a Grismold player myself, I'm so glad to see him win so damn much 💪🏿

[@lazaruscomplexofficial]

That grismold deck was a riot to watch. The moment i saw pestilence in hand i knew where it was going!

[@joltyboy3641]

The new layout looks too professional! No goblins would enjoy watching something so nice!

[@ArmadilloAl]

Exactly how excited is Tomer about getting to add Arcane Signet to his Signet tribal deck?

[@DarkEinherjar]

We now need a card that makes a player win if they control ten or more different artifacts with "Signet" in their name.

[@Chuubii]

I really like how minimal the new look is. Commander damage (which is a nuisance to track in paper games as well) looks very slick as just a number in the owner's respective color.

[@lehandroz]

Haha! Finally a Grismold deck in action! Good game, and boy was that a LOT of fun! Layout looks nice and clean. Looking forward to the other one.

[@pokeyclawz8727]

If an opponent takes control of a permanent thats already on the battlefield and then dies, it goes back to its original controller, so sun titan would stay in play. If the opponent got the sun titan from their opponent’s library or hand and was never under the control of its owner, then it would be exiled

[@user-vs7uz4ro8e]

I believe since it's been given away, the Sun Titan would end up exiled. At least this is how we do it when I play Zedruu.

[@pokeyclawz8727]

Ethan i dont remember the situation. Who owned sun titan, who controlled sun titan, and who died?

[@user-vs7uz4ro8e]

@@pokeyclawz8727 The Sun Titan was donated by the Zedruu player to another player. What I think happens is if the Sun Titan is stolen through a temporary means (i.e. stolen via Confiscate) then the card returns to the original owners control as the stealing card (in this case the Confiscate) leaves the battlefield. On the other hand, if the permanent is permanently stolen/given away, either through Zedruu, Role Reversal, that red chaos card (can't remember what it's called), etc. then the card gets exiled as the player who controls it leaves play.

[@pokeyclawz8727]

Ethan ah, gotcha. No it doesnt work like that, it all counts as a controlling effect even if it has “permanently” changed control with effects like those. If its stolen from the battlefield, it goes back to the owner. If its stolen from the library, graveyard, or hand etc it goes to exile. There are multiple rules about it, i dont remember their numbers though

[@user-vs7uz4ro8e]

@@pokeyclawz8727Thanks! I'll go through the rules about ownership and see if I can find it and inform my playgroup that I actually DO get my permanents back, thank you very much.

[@mugongaiaphage7764]

Another great game. Like the layout and like seeing Grismold in action even more!

[@JGreen42]

The new overlay is excellent. Very crisp, clean, and unobtrusive.

[@DarkEinherjar]

About the new layout: The blue needs a brighter shade, because the current one is a bit too dark with that black background. The font size for the commander/infect damage should also be bigger. Other than that, it's very good.

[@ms.sysbit5511]

Did you miss the 12 life Tomer took from Grismold? He was at 45 and you added 12 Grismold damage below but he remained at 45 total life. Btw the new overlay is very nice. Very clean and maximizes board states while tracking individual damages/infect/experience counters (assuming the latter ones) etc without interfering.

[@MTGMuddstah]

Ah darn! I must have. Sorry about that.

[@Tiakh]

I very much appreciate the effort you put into these videos. They are great to watch. fast paced and still very informative about the game state. Keep up the good work :)

[@spiralhaze2070]

New layout looks super slick. Also 16:57 perfect execution on those handshakes.

[@e-tier_hippo]

The new overlay is real good! You can see all the info very easily and the names of commanders is more useful than cropped pics of them. I'm curious for the next video with another new overlay to compare.

[@seasnek7024]

Love that playmat CJ had!

[@McC4ll]

Loving the new overlay!! So much clearer to follow and a much better viewing experience overall!

[@BlockyTG]

Love the new layout! My favorite part about it is seeing the name of the commander rather than the image, it's much clearer to me who is playing which commander this way.

[@rorykitchen2727]

Cj missed a lot of Kraum triggers. I’m proud of you for not missing a single rhystic study trigger. Great game and overlay!

[@mikemoyer8162]

Oh man! Back in '96 when I started playing, we played that if you drew before you untapped you couldn't go back go back to the untap step, you passed it. Anything you forgot to untap stayed tapped. We were savages.

[@ElusiveOtter]

Who is the Greek god in the thumbnail corner? Is this spoiled artwork from the new Theros set? 🤔

[@BeyondPolygons]

Woah! I love Comic Connection! I have been going since I was a kid too! Haven't played Magic there ever oddly, but now I think I gotta come out more! (I was literally just there and bought cards for my next deck!)

[@TheWongKeys]

Wait i didnt know went to comic connections? Thats my local lgs, cj was the one who got me into magic too. Dang what a small world.

[@MTGMuddstah]

I've been going since I was 8! It's where my grandparents would take me when I was visiting them in Oakville. I live in Ottawa so I don't go often, but Rich was super supportive of me filming there while I visit.

[@TheWongKeys]

@@MTGMuddstah if you are down here in oakville i gotta get into your pod lol

[@stevenbuck4090]

Nice video. As a long time viewer, I did prefer the visibility of the last layout. If If I forgot which commanders belonged to which player, the artwork helped me out. Also the commander damage being nice and big was also helpful. I know most people are saying it is good, but I do hope you can somehow work in these two aspects I've mentioned above. ❤

[@MTGMuddstah]

I'll see what I can do!

[@D_A_D_]

I like how at 10:50 when he played the Sun Titan it was so blindingly bright you couldn't even tell what it was. On flavor.

[@DarkEinherjar]

I dig that Emrakul playmat

[@AutobotSlasher]

Loving the new overlay, makes for a very clear field.

[@twidgetron328]

I miss the Commander portraits, but this is probably something I could get used to. The turn counter is a very nice and very helpful addition!

[@isa660]

I REALLY WANT TO SEE MORE OF THAT ARCANE DECK at first I thought it was just some 4C storm deck but once I started seeing the Arcane stuff I got interested. Plus it's with two of my favorite partners.

[@icecream6140]

Damn the new layout look mighty fine👌

[@helloboto666]

The new layout looks really clean, the entire field is visible (life, cmd dmg, etc), good work

[@RunninOnYT]

A little character portrait for the commander could be cool to have ! I otherwisr like the layout and I look forward to the thursday version.

[@BlauwFuur]

Love the grismould deck!

[@Kazz1187]

I am personally willing to accept some change, but I like being able to see the pictures of the commander on the screen :)

[@BloodLegaZ]

Omg TOMER! I've never pulled out the punt counter in a Mtg Muddstah video before!

[@bencaswell1956]

New layout is great. I personally found that the old one was sometimes hard to read depending on the art in the background. This one should resolve that and is future proof. Great job!

[@Foofoothegoon]

You were correct about the ownership of Sun Titan when CJ left the game. You always get back the permanents you own if they were originally under your own control. If an opponent actually has that permanent you own _enter the battlefield_ under their control (like with a _Bribery_ or _Marchesa, the Black Rose_ or _Xantcha, Sleeper Agent_ ), then that permanent is exiled instead when that opponent leaves the game. Edit - This question just came up on tappedout, here if it helps. tappedout.net/mtg-questions/soulherder-in-multiplayer/

[@darkneko972]

I am a fan of this new layout. I doubt V2 can beat the minimalism of this V1, but I'm giving it a fair judgment when we get to see it

[@gaythiestMTG]

Yay! Tomer from MtG Goldfish is playing paper MtG!

[@liammanning8334]

Maybe of one my favorite games to watch.. Lovrd grismold and zedru

[@highshelf]

The cross over i didnt know i needed

[@Matteo_the_Plague_Doctor]

Goddamn that was a fun game to watch. I have a Zedruu deck so I'm definitely looking out for that deck when I see it on your channel. That was a relatively grindy match, but a fun one to spectate nonetheless. I don't entirely like the new overlay. Its too bland. If you could do a hybrid where the text is clearer, but we still get to see some of the artwork from the commanders in there, I think it'd look cooler. Legibility is important, so if you could make the numbers and text bigger, that'd help. Not everyone watches on a PC.

[@altromonte15]

lim-dul's vault is an extremely underrated card imo, you can dig your entire library if you need. It's a 2 mana tutor but it costs a bit of life, depending on how lucky you are. And you get to scry 5.

[@DivinePenguin00]

The narration on this game was fucking fantastic!

[@Jonzin4BeatzNYC]

That background music was in the movie tombstone during the theater scene

[@Tehnameless1]

Great new layout, wondering what the new one will be like. I agree with your analysis of punish cards, though there may be enough density of donate cards today to avoid failure

[@MystMG]

CAREFUL DUDE SOMEONE INFILTRATED YOUR THUMBNAIL.

[@armoric]

The new overlay is pretty clean; it could use a bit of work on the colour choice, for the contrasts, but unless you put some kind of filter behind it you're going to be limited by the playmats anyway. By the way, what does that Emrakul one say? I couldn't make out the second picture. I'm also surprised that no more people went after Zedruu once the combo pieces had been dealt with. It's always the kind of deck that's hard to finish off so not keeping them in check early can make you miss the opportunity by one or two turns later on.

[@DachFalimo]

"I told him that I came to party" I'm dying. 🤣 This one I like this one better than Thursday.. It feels squished... Honestly, though? I like the outer edge with the commander pictures the best.

[@kaiokenx100]

awesome video! i always like watching when you're playing mistform it's just such a unique commander. Have you considered running Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign in the deck? each changeling coming in and giving you a fact or fiction seems sweet. Keep up all of the sweet videos!

[@MTGMuddstah]

Unesh is in the 99 already. He's fantastic when I can get him out.

[@kaiokenx100]

@@MTGMuddstah nice. I guess I should take a look at decklists.

[@noahjaffe3094]

Ahhh Tomer + Muddstah!!!!!!!!

[@ivernedit]

YAAAY DADDY ZEDRUU RETURNS! Can’t wait to see the new cards to update my deck

[@rexone9564]

Great game! Layout is awesome, one small thing, the D20s and D12's were hard to read on camera. Make sure they are either high contrast or just use a D6.

[@StrawHatHogs]

Another great video Muddstah, I like the new layout. I'll wait for the other layout to compare and then I'll give you my opinion. Other than that, this episode was mathematical!

[@TombiDTA]

I love the new layout but like someone said before,i miss seeing the commander artwork, maybe in the squares where the life totals are shown instead of block colour it could be the artwork? (Diagonal split for partners?)

[@kisiorek11]

oh man can't wait to see monday's layout since I like this one so much

[@simelot4522]

NOW, that's a sweet overlay.... 💥

[@solarraine4902]

I love the new layout! It's so clean

[@DarkEinherjar]

Yes, the Sun Titan should've returned to Tomer, as he's the default controller.

[@krobzik]

Puca's Mischief is not a temporary effect, so as by rule 800.4a, Sun Titan should be exiled once its new controller leaves the game.

[@DarkEinherjar]

It doesn't matter if the effect is temporary or permanent. The rule says "ANY effects which give that player control of any objects or players end". It doesn't matter if it's temporary or not, or who is responsible for it. Sun Titan would only be exiled if CJ himself had cast it or put it on the battlefield under his control to begin with.

[@Taylors_Ghost]

800.4a When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if that player controlled any objects on the stack not represented by cards, those objects cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. Since pukas mischief isn't an ongoing conditional effect that gave him control of Sun Titan, it does not end when he leaves the game, and is exiled. They use bribery as an example in the rules. I might be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that Sun Titan should have been exiled.

[@DarkEinherjar]

Bribery puts the card on the battlefield under your control to begin with. That makes YOU the default controller, which is why the creature is exiled when you lose.

[@halophilicnc6473]

If a permanent is on the battlefield and then you gain control of it there is always a controlling effect that ends when you leave the game. If the card was on the stack, in the opponent's graveyard or library then there isn't. It's just a card you control but don't own. Exiled when you leave the game.

[@AdmiralZev]

I'm very torn on the new layout. Don't get me wrong, I freaking love it and it looks so good. But after watching you for more than a year now, I'm always expecting to see the old layout. Lol it's weird for me but it looks good!! That new Golgari commander was so interesting to see. I think the real star of the show was that hella early Hour, tho. That was super interesting to see and resetting the board so early in the game like that seemed to be in Tomer's favor. Great game as Always Muddstah!!

[@ChrisBalon]

Love the new overlay, but I miss having the commander pictures visible. Lots of new space - would be great to find a way to have them as thumbnails still. Also I may be biased, as I'm in the game, but I think this gameplay was great!

[@unimaginative_artist]

I do like this layout it's clean, also are you keying each one of the card animations if so u can copy and paste the key path saving u prob an hour of time!

[@TheMrBigShot96]

I love this new overlay

[@Lucarioguild7]

Nice I was wondering when you two Canadians would meet in person, now time for LRR and Spike Feeders for Canadian content creator bingo

[@MTGMuddstah]

The Spike Feeders have kindly extended an open-ended invitation to join them whenever I get a chance. I just haven't had a window to get out their way yet! Soon!

[@phobos_deimos748]

Awesome work dude, keep it up!👍

[@randomreviews263]

I like the new overlay, it's way more sleek

[@tomerabramovici32]

Thanks for having me on! Here's my current Zedruu list: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1804395#paper Pyromancer's Swath is the meanest card in there. I agree about the "mean" cards, I think most of them are pretty mediocre and can even backfire, so I've never cared for Rust Golem / Jinxed Choker / etc. Swath is backbreaking though and worth the risk, though it can be quite mean! The rest of my donate targets are pretty benign, mostly used as fodder for my switcheroos. I'm happy with how it worked out this game!

[@kevinagreer]

I have mixed feelings about the new layout. I really like that it is low profile and allows a better view of the gameplay, but for me having the pictures of each commander on the sides kinda adds something aesthetically nice to it.

[@fenixmeaney6170]

Tomer controlled the Titan before cj It does go back to him If it had entered under cj it would be exiled I think

[@MTGMuddstah]

That's what we thought as well. Hopefully someone else can confirm it too!

[@fenixmeaney6170]

JUDGE

[@magnusmagicus1977]

[L1] That is indeed correct. The Titan had a previous controller in Tomer, so it goes back to him. If CJ would have gotten it from his graveyard for example, there would be no previous controller, so it would be exiled. But in this case you played it out according to the rules :)

[@fenixmeaney6170]

@@magnusmagicus1977 thanks judge

[@addambarcelos]

The layout looks good. Zedruu and grismold looked amazing

[@TheAntoniusFunk]

Not sure if the name/life count/commander graphics are updated for this video but they look great.

[@MTGMuddstah]

It's one of two new layouts I'm testing out. Thursday will have the second one!

[@YetAnotherScrub]

The question of what happens to the donated Sun Titan (via Zedruu) when the player it was donated to loses is interesting. The ruling on this states: When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game, any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end, and all spells and abilities controlled by that player on the stack cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game...cont. Hence if the losing player has gained control of a card using Mind Control, when Mind Control is removed from the game, control of the stolen card will be returned. If the player used a reanimation effect to play a creature from an opponent's graveyard, that card will not be returned since there was no control change effect, and will instead be exiled (* for question below). I had thought that since Zedruu's effect doesn't have any associated permanent holding the card there in the way that Mind Control does, it would not be returned, and would thereby be exiled. As it turns out though, you were correct. The returning of permanents does not only include static abilities like Mind Control, but actually extends to any cards that have changed control. Although the control of Sun Titan is not bound to any other card on the battlefield, it does remember that it's control was changed, and that will revert when the player controlling it loses the game.

[@YetAnotherScrub]

What I am curious is the * situation. If a player uses Reanimate on an opponent's Fiend Hunter, exiling an opponent's creature with the ETB, and then that player loses, Fiend Hunter would be exiled. I suspect the opponent's creature is not returned, since Fiend Hunter's return ability needs to use the stack, and although the losing player doesn't own Fiend Hunter, the ability on the stack would be owned by them since they controlled the card as it left, and a player who has lost cannot put anything on the stack. What I really don't know is if another player has a card that says 'When a creature leaves the battlefield, gain 1 life' (I couldn't think of an example card that would trigger when an opponent's creature was exiled, so this is a hypothetical example), would they see the Fiend Hunter leave the battlefield (exiled by game mechanics) and trigger to gain 1 life?

[@2long2cat]

Really liking this overlay, just not a big fan of the font. I think allcaps would look a tat better.

[@orsettomorbido]

Noooo, poor CJ, it was the most interesting deck on the table :( (Well, Ultimus is interesting too, i do admit, but the Storm is SO COOL)

[@SeppoCJ]

THANK YOU I KNOW MY DECK WAS SWEET

[@orsettomorbido]

@@SeppoCJ I saw the Storm in the starting hand and i was "OK I WANT CJ TO WIN"

[@joshua81709]

love the new layout great vid as always s

[@rentonnoah7961]

Superfun game, this incredibly great

[@trudonriddle1729]

Man.... Everytime I see Zedruu I hope it's yours... Not that I don't like others.... I just love your control variant

[@ErikTheRedd1]

1:28 "Rhystic study.." *Aw shit, here we go again*

[@darylchiu9030]

The minimalistic layout will take some getting used to but for gameplay clarity, it does serve its purpose well. I wonder how the other layout will fare next week.

[@MTGMuddstah]

The second one comes out Thursday

[@darylchiu9030]

Oh. Looking forward to it then.

[@r.a.w.780]

Love the new layout 😁 cool game 👍

[@DarkEinherjar]

Here we go again... time for some rules clarification: 800.4a. When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game, any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end, and all spells and abilities controlled by that player on the stack cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who’s still in the game. It doesn't matter if it's a temporary effect like Act of Treason or Silumgar, an aura effect like Mind Control or a permanent effect like Zedruu or Blatant Thievery. The rule says ANY effects, so they ALL end, regardless of duration, conditions or who created the effect in the first place, and the object in question returns to the previous controller or the default one. If CJ had cast the Sun Titan or put it on the battlefield under his control to begin with (because of Hostage Taker or Bribery, for example), then yes, it would've been exiled, because he would be the default controller. Always remember this concept of the default controller (the player who cast the permanent or put it on the battlefield in the first place). It will help you figure out whether the permanent is exiled or returns to another player's control.

[@fredthered98]

The new layout is amazing!

[@Snuske10006]

I'm pretty sure he gets the sun titan back at the end of turn. i believe all control effects end when a player loses and the permanents go back to the owner (: Nice game also!

[@TheG4urdian]

I really really liked the new layout, it was very clean and all the info (names, life totals etc etc) were very legible. I am gonna miss the commander artwork as the layout though to be honest

[@MTGMuddstah]

All good things come to an end =(

[@kylefleming7680]

I like the new overlay

[@strahlungsopfer]

This game was a blast!

[@origamiswan3970]

I really like the new layout!

[@nielsverbunt]

This layout rocks!

[@Starkiller3025]

Love the new layout

[@muhdafiq3329]

why do people always crack their fetch literally at the end of someone’s turn before theirs? i get it bcs they might be able to response to things like aven mindcensor but it still doesnt make sense to me because it just seems like it delays the game for just a while to search 1 card in a possibly 90 card deck

[@DarkEinherjar]

Because, most of the time, the fetch is going after a shockland. If they need the mana at some point during the rotation, that shockland needs to be untapped and it'll cost the player 2 more life. Otherwise, they bring it tapped at the end step before their turn and lose only 1 life.

[@Guerte]

Definitely going to have to get used to a new layout. But it looks crisp and clean!

[@specialky903]

I like the new name boarders... hella crisp

[@vincentcoo2244]

Great game, Btw Nice layout !

[@alejandrobuentello1546]

Love the new layout 😉👌🏼👍🏻

[@trashgoat3119]

Really like the new layout

[@jackpabich763]

No Goblin Noise?

[@Maxizola]

Very clean Design! I like it

[@kurowasanabe]

The new overlay is a lot better. It's also weird to see both Mistform and Zedruu in the same game.