Multi-Class Characters: The Revenge 5e Dungeons & Dragons - Web DM

[@WebDM]

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[@ChapterGrim]

Fallen Aasimar Paladin-Sorcerer, either Divine or Shadow. Scourge Aasimar Paladin-Sorcerer 100% Divine...

[@BigFootTheRealOne]

Warlock sorcerer for 1200 ft Eldritch blast

[@worldeater2414]

I actually made a 14 lvl paladin with 1 lvl in barbarian, who was a dwarf follower of thor, just for rp reasons I thought he would be a little rage/aggressive so...... I'm new btw Sincerely Badass Pagan

[@weaselwolf]

I don't get why you couldn't multiclass into sorcerer without some magical radioactive spider bite. You've always had dragon blood, but the powers didn't manifest until later in life

[@digunder14]

another way that may depend on ur world's setting, would be a blood transfusion could work with multiclassing into sorcerer

[@matadorspvfc-comaberenices2234]

A large bearded man approaches the party and looks directly at the heavily armour clad fighter and looks him straight in the eye and says " you're a sorcerer Harry. That's how I would multi into a sorcerer.

[@jameswhitley4101]

I mean, is it at all unfeasible that a sorcerer's power might be a little late in its development? I mean some people go through puberty later or earlier than others, who's to say magic doesn't work the same way?

[@carlm4472]

I have the paladin/sorcerer character that these guys joke about who is in service to an angel, going devotion pally and divine sorcerer. Basically it's just the way the training worked, and eventually became a self-reflection journey of finding one's 'inner light' to keep going as a character. It worked really well: sorcerer doesn't have to be a bloodline after all.

[@ItMoDaL]

I Agree. Your bloodline could just have been dormant until you started adventuring and all this action, all this Adrenalin because of the fights may awaken this dormant Bloodline. And you could start multiclassing as Sorcerer

[@TrickyTrickyFox]

Well, I had a rogue, who wanted to dip into a sorc. So, he had a character one level below everyone just for the sake of being able to use an opportunity. After 3 or 4 sessions - "okay, vampire lair", "- Bleh, your blood smells funny, rogue". And hey, thanks to an enemy vampire - he discovered he had a sorcerer bloodline in him and he was just not aware of his magicall prowess, because all of his life he was hiding from it instead of emracing it (thus, he became a rogue prior to level 1). ^ - just a simple segway, that doesn't feel TOO forced.

[@baval5]

You can also simply flavor your sorcerer differently. People forget that the classes lore is just the most common archtype for that kind of character, my sorcerer got his magic from being exposed to a powerful spell that infused his body. no bloodline at all!

[@localgobby]

As far as roleplaying a multiclass, I once played a tiefling fighter who's goal was to be heroic in spite of his infernal heritage. We were a low level party, and after kicking down the door to a cultist hideout, we had realized we were in over our heads. The cultists tortured us for a month in between sessions. My character was brought to the brink of death every day before being healed by divine magic to suffer again and again. It broke him. He cast aside his ideals and, fearing this day may be his last, did the one thing he swore to never do- call out to his infernal ancestors for help. They answered, and that's how i dipped in to warlock :D

[@paulh3892]

That's such a cool way to play out gaining new abilities and traits!

[@Lunatic108]

Honestly, thats an amazing way to multi class :)

[@guidoguido2245]

MrPilgrim104 damn, that’s amazing.

[@expheonixincinere]

That’s why you use aoe attack abilities such as burning hands

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

I'm currently going the opposite route: A Fiend-warlock whose patron is grooming him into becoming his god's chosen champion (so basically Fiend-warlock, Eldritch knight and a few levels of war-domain cleric)

[@SoftSpott]

Id see multiclassing into sorcerer as your character awakening/discovering some latent power they had withing them all along

[@willdufifie3750]

Kinda like X-Men mutations. Nice.

[@killingkat7198]

I figure you're like most sorcerer backgrounds you one day just make something explode. Boom sorcerer

[@joshDammmit]

Or, a chaotic neutral sorcerer that was a spy for a drow lord in the undee dark, that then shifts to true neutral, and becomes a monk.

[@Szabla1595]

Exposure to an area of high magical "radiation"? Congrats on your new level in Wild Magic Sorcerer.

[@II-wu7mx]

I played my sorcadin multiclass as a 17 year old knight errant who had an interaction with a dragon as a child. On his 18th birthday (I tied it to his level up into sorc) his power ignited and had repercussions for the character.

[@Rankerquat]

That "Second Level Dip" joke was _shockingly_ good.

[@Brother_Marq]

Rankerquat oh gods that was painful. I love it.

[@JPruinc]

Even the sun shines on a dogs ass every now and again.

[@df6597]

+JPrulnc Even a blind squirrel finds a walnut once in a while.

[@SilverSidedSquirrel]

sure does

[@gdroff]

I don't get it!

[@yannispapoulis7550]

My group just finished a 2year campaign and I joked multiclassing everything in the next one. Someone challenged me to do it. So now I am. DM is all for it but required reasoning for the progression at every level. I refer to it as the "Adventurer" class. I may die in flames, but it will be brilliant.

[@jimdavis141]

Cantrips are your friend with that build.

[@yannispapoulis7550]

Oh, I know. I've mapped out all the cantrips for it. At level 7, I'll have 18 cantrips.

[@baconghoti]

Yannis Papoulis may I say Diviner for 2 has a good payoff. What are you thinking of as progression?

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

Yannis Papoulis New Game+ is doing the same thing but for all the core classes in Pathfinder.

[@JPruinc]

The gods speed!

[@xdragoonzero0]

Sorcerer multiclass can be easily explained by saying you had the power in you from birth, but it was weaker than a single class sorcerer, and that you weren't aware you had any power until later in life.

[@Licjr]

Maybe a close call with death (or several) was needed to awaken your power

[@DalmarWolf]

Yeah, I was also thinking something along a latent magical ability that you haven't fully discovered yet... works especially well if you roleplay out some of that during the first few session before you level up and get that sorc level.

[@ryancrawford9554]

I had a gnome bard who did a one level dip into sorcerer for more combat based spells. He was already magical, he just became more magical.

[@tnm1697]

xdragoonzero0 in my 4e game I was a ranger that gained a sorcerer class because he become Spellscarred as a result of his travels and so he harnessed the scar

[@GonnaDieNever]

also depending on your race it could simply be inherent, if you're an elf Dragonborn, or Aasimar some types of sorcerer might be common for your species, ie: favored soul for Aasimar.

[@ardinhelme687]

The way I look at multiclassing into Sorcerer is a sort of awakening due to some sort of traumatic experience, the magic was always within you, dormant until it was drawn out.

[@keithcarrigan7549]

Ardin Helme this is similar to the idea for my character

[@chaddixon9764]

One excellent reason to multi-class is if you want to play a D&D version of a specific character from fiction. Alot of fictional characters from books, comics, movies etc. do not fit a specific class and require multi-classing for you to play the D&D version of that character.

[@Matt-md5yt]

like Caption America and Ultron?

[@TheMainTagonist]

Matt Captain America is a Paladin of America

[@TheFifthRace920]

Kvothe being a perfect example

[@cmckee42]

Kvothe is a textbook bard. No multiclassing required.

[@TheFifthRace920]

Christopher McKee I would argue Kvothe's fighting abilities significantly outweigh the physical powers of a bard, but I know what you're saying.

[@axbx7139]

I think plausible multiclassing in sorcerer is: you was born with magic, but didn't know about it. Naruto could be considered as such example, as well as Luke Skywalker. Sure, Luke trained to be a jedi, but he was born with the connection to the Force

[@ZetHololo]

We play a campain in an old Slavic setting (pagan), and started at 3rd level. One of my players wanted to play a pecheneg, so he took took fighter2-rogue1 to express that kind of tricksy steppe-warrior. My wife played a bogatyr and took fighter2-war cleric1 to express that kind of wise-man's knowledge of healing and legendary strength and resiliense. We are having a blast so far!

[@JPruinc]

I'll bet. Sounds like a blast!

[@Skinz01]

Racist dnd? Sounds undignified.

[@360BLK]

Roleplaying into a new class lends to certain classes and situations pretty well. I've been considering playing a barbarian who uses his connection to his totem spirit to lead him down the path to being a druid. Or a Druid who's connection to the more aggressive animals he becomes has caused him to have feral fits of rage when in combat even not in human form. Another easy transition is fighter to paladin. A mercenary soldier who finds faith and takes up the mantle of paladin.

[@JPruinc]

All valid RP reasons to MC.

[@DonnchanhK]

1k1 Nights I'm playing a similar character currently. A Goliath, who's home village is full of Barbarians and Druids. He's gone on a pilgrimage to grow wiser, so he dipped from Barb into Druid. Bear totem, with a preference for bear wild shape.

[@Bluecho4]

Or how about a Barbarian who, in a fit of rage, kills those he loves. In remorse, he enters a monastery, seeking in the form of a Monk a balance against his Barbarian fury, which will hopefully bring him peace.

[@boringstory2849]

1k1 Nights im playing a bear obsessed barbarian with two levels of moon Druid and he's my favorite character yet. Dude kicks ass

[@hawke7471]

Half-Orc fighter who, depending on how things go in the campaign, giving in more and more to his orcish side. Perfect multi-class to barbarian there is, just make a Half-Orc

[@pokefan50000]

Craziest multiclassing story I have is that one of my players is running a character named "Jack the Trader." He's got at least one level in every single class, (used point-buy to get the minimum stats at first) and I've been seriously surprised at how non-broken the build is. He's not great in combat but he's got utility for DAYS, and its lead to some pretty interesting scenarios/solutions. That said, the player was considerate enough to run this by me first and we worked together on building the character as the campaign went on. If he'd wanted to i'm certain he could have just made Jack the Trader a broken nightmare to work with. It all comes down to mutual respect between DM and Players.

[@nuclearchezburgr3857]

I was looking at that before (and they mentioned it on the show before) but I didn't realize Ability Score Improvement is tied to class, not character level. I imagine that'd be a huge setback

[@pokefan50000]

I'd be lying if I told you Jack didn't get frustrated by his low stats every so often, but it's lead to some great moments where he's had to really think outside the box and come up with ways to give himself an edge when he thinks a flat-out ability check just won't cut it (warlock invocations and his newly acquired Wild Shape have been VERY helpful for this)

[@JPruinc]

Limitations force you to seek alternate perspectives. That's a great story. I sooo wanna do that!

[@MrSemanticprison]

Jack of all Trades

[@destroyer8000]

Hey you two, I never read the comment for your previous Multi-class video, so I was very shocked when you started talking about the backlash you received from that video. It is one of my favorite videos you have done and entirely changed how I play at my tables and my character creation. I had never thought of multi-classing before I saw that video and I LOVE it now. Just wanted to show my support and to say that among the accusations of powergaming, there is still some of us who's eyes you opened to a whole new element of DnD and are very grateful for it. My 15-bard/2 warlock Gaston would not have been the same without you guys. :)

[@DamascoGamer]

One of the best d&d channels here in youtube!

[@JPruinc]

Thanks!

[@michael3119]

He's lying dont listen to him

[@DamascoGamer]

Fezz Dawg Low quality bait

[@NicolasHartman]

THE best ;)

[@michael3119]

Nicolas Hartman this guys gets it

[@kolbycampbell3957]

Thank you so very much for the quality, usable content you guys make. As a new DM, I find having these types of resources help me make a quality game for my friends and a better experience overall, and that alone makes me want to support the channel as it moves forward. I've one compaint though, and that would be the lack of web DM merch. I'd love a beanie or shirt at some point

[@WebDM]

+kolby Campbell working on the merch...

[@kolbycampbell3957]

Then I'm left with no complaints and plenty of praise :D thanks for the speedy reply and hard work, and I look forward to next week's video

[@JPruinc]

Appreciate the support!

[@evidicus]

In my West Marches game the PCs are welcome to multiclass, so long as they have a mentor to train them in the new class. Since only the PCs have classes, they can only learn from one another, so it ties in role playing opportunities and organic progression.

[@JPruinc]

That's perfectly fair.

[@JacksonOwex]

If they can only take a class by being trained in it and your players are the only people with classes who taught them their original classes?

[@silver4831]

Parents, schooling ect. I mean ALL elves can use certain weapons too.

[@TakManSan]

"Was training as an apprentice wizard and while delivering a package for your Mistress to a wizard in a neighbouring province an invasion by the orc hordes cut's you off from leaving the area. You end up fighting in the defense of the city for months and in the process learned to be a Fighter. When you return to your Mistress she releases you from her service as she feels your dedication to study and rely upon arcane powers was lacking."

[@aaronjafri9004]

When you were talking about multi-classing into Sorcerer and mentioned the Red dragon I got surprised because that is *EXACTLY* the backstory of one of my characters. He was an ordinary human before a dragon attacked and he survived because the dragon decided to have terrible depth perception at that moment or something because he only scratched his chest. Really badly. And then he developed magical abilities.

[@bisonhappenstance]

You guys are such sweethearts... village-slaughtering, player-torturing sweethearts. Keep up the great work. Always pleased to see a new vid.

[@Nemenian]

I'm really glad you guys addressed this and talked about it rather than avoiding the people and the issues. one of the reasons your such a great channel. good job!

[@jimdavis141]

I'm of the opinion that honest criticism and critique should be addressed head-on, not avoided.

[@Nemenian]

people rarely handle it as well as you guys did though, and that really means something

[@jimdavis141]

Thanks!

[@CrashSable]

At no point did they address the actual issues with what they said in the first video. They just reinforced the objectively wrong stuff they said earlier while ignoring the valid criticisms from the first video.

[@MiningwithPudding]

9:45 YES. My fighter (now Fighter/Sorcerer) came up with a GREAT RP reason why. He had this memento ring as long as he can remember, turns out it was damaged and just kept draining his magic as it regenerated. It's now partially fixed so it's no longer leaking his magic away.

[@HiroZeroVirus]

warlock/sorcerer! you call upon the power of a patron which unlocks a latent bloodline power you never knew you possessed.

[@athonkiller2980]

I recently created a warlock sorcerer combo where I was a sorcerer who hadn't learned of their power, but when they were forced into a pack with a demon, that spark exploded into wild magic, with these two classes, I have a really cool mage with plenty of spells and knowledge at his side, but he is quite insane and has no control over his wild magic. great story and meta gaming

[@richardowens3343]

That ending was great. "Tch he knows what he's doing. Taunting me" 🤣

[@VinayKapadiaVK]

Sorceror multiclass can always be explained as an "awakening". You trained your whole life as a but then one day you feel a surge of magic and can now cast spells. It's in you from birth, but it's hidden until your later levels.

[@buboniccraig896]

For me if you want to multi class into a sorcerer, it can be a thing where you recently DISCOVERED that you had magical abilities.

[@michaelcohen8259]

That's the way I played my character. He was a foundling, raised by elves and taught the longbow and longsword. His logical class was Ranger. He learned (Ranger) spellcraft at Level 2, then at Level 3, he suddenly gained different magical powers. He was now a (Divine Soul subclass) Sorcerer (he has celestial blood and does not know it.)

[@athatcher9367]

I like to offer the party chances to multiclass in-game and warlock is definitely the easiest. Start off as a charming rogue with good CHA, well as a reward for helping some weird cool magic creature or something maybe they get offered a level in warlock for their next level up, with a little bonus added on until then (a warlock spell or a weaker version of one of the patron’s powers) I’ve also done other things but a lot of them take a bit of down time most of the time, a few weeks training at the dojo to get access to a level in monk… or if you don’t wanna go full into monk but want an ability from monk you can spend time and money over multiple down times to learn that ability (same would go for fighter and wizard and the other non-religion based classes). The difficult ones to really dip into would be paladin and cleric, as you would have to actually devote yourself to a god of some kind (or we could try reflavoring this around one of the warlock patron options), and devotion takes time (usually the god won’t say “oh you prayed a bit over the last few weeks? Awesome, here is some magic power!” Usually I’d have to lock that sorta thing behind a quest or if it’s just a bit of cleric like power/ability without a full multiclass maybe attach it to an item or get taught it like the other abilities). I forgot about Sorcerer! Never mind, it’s easier than warlock, your magic blood is awakening! There, done! Does this lead to some broken stuff? Yes, but I am literally god if the world in which the players exist, I can just change stuff they’ll be running into around if I have to.

[@BojanglesWrangles]

Love this breakdown One aspect I wish had been discussed was the use of sub-classes (especially with the UA material) to perhaps sidestep or minimize some of the need and even the weaknesses of multi-classing (I'm thinking Hexblade and College of the Blade for your fighter/mage combos specifically).

[@demonblood8841]

"Throwing them spells left and right in my face. he knows what hes doing" LOL

[@joshantor]

The problem with an "RP" requirement is very simple. "I want to be more powerful" is a perfectly valid reason to multiclass.

[@Dizalddin]

That might work for some classes, like warlock. But others might be questionable. Don't know that rogue has a "powerful" air around it. Mechanically yes, but someone seeking power probably isn't going to go "oh, I know! I'll learn how to live on the streets!": and if you aren't playing an evil campaign, going for paladin or cleric might not net you the desired deity when you walk in with a hunger for power. Wizards have to study, a lot of studying. Everyone gets angry so justification for barbarian would be? Sorcerer as they said would have to be a special case.

[@Ryan_Winter]

The notion, that the view, that a character is not somehow confined to its' original class, is supposedly meta-gamey, is striking me as odd. Isn't it other way around that is much more predicated on an artificial view of a character? For instance, I love the Bard class, I really do. I always had a soft spot for that class, but in D&D5 it is awesome. And not in spite of, but just because of this have I created many "builds", combinations of race and a multi-classing "dip". And I see a Bard 19/Wizard 1, not as a person who's deviating from his field of expertise. That's just a Bard who has a spellbook and found another way to cast spells to widen his repertoire and enhance the utility of his spell casting. It was said in this video and I think it's a great example, everyone can be tempted to make a pact with an otherworldly being to reap the benefits, that's just what Faust did in Goethe's play. That guy was a physician and struck a deal with such an entity to "solve a problem". Everyone could become a cleric later in her or his life, you might just find (a) faith and embrace it. It's the thinking that learning something new somehow contradicts what has come before that is totally artificial!

[@jimdavis141]

Excellent point!

[@JPruinc]

Hear! Hear!

[@Bluecho4]

Oh yes, this is true. Just examining the Warlock, there are plenty of ways to become the beneficiary of a Patron. A member of another class who wandered into the realm or lair of some Fey creature, like a high fairy's seasonal court...or a hag-witch's bone-strewn cave. Maybe by some innocuous act, or simply for trespassing, the character offends the fey being. Only by agreeing to serve them are they able to mollify their rage. A Tiefling who makes a deal with a fiend, both because it was the only way she could see to solve a problem she labored under, and because she didn't think she could avoid an infernal fate because of her heritage. But later, she discovers that a Tiefling is not doomed to evil, and comes to regret her decision. In an attempt to atone, she joins a religious order, pledging herself to a Good deity, eventually being chosen by their deity to become a Cleric. But, no matter her later penitence, she still made a pact with the Fiend, and feels obligated to uphold her end of the bargain agreed to. Thereby setting up an existential conflict, as she is in the unenviable position of trying to serve two masters. Or how about a Wizard who, curious and incautious, begins studying ancient, forbidden texts. Until the act of studying them causes him to gain the half-attention of a sleeping Great One. Its inhuman mutterings echo in his mind, the unfathomable sleep talk of a blind, idiot god. Until, to the Wizard's horror, _he begins to fathom it_. He stumbles from his isolated sanctum a mumbling, disheveled wreck, half-mad and bound to a resident of the outer reaches that neither knows who it Patrons, nor cares. It merely feeds the new Wizard-Warlock visions when he sleeps, the gibbering blasphemies that give insight and hints at the Patron's unconscious desires.

[@Bluecho4]

On the other side, you could start as a Warlock to a being that either used to be a god before being unseated, or desires to ascend to deific status. And your character serves them in their quest to achieve divinity (again?). And then somewhere along the line, your character succeeds enough in that quest that the Patron becomes divine. Suddenly, that Patron has needs of champions for their cause, not just to further their goals through subterfuge, but to spread the faith. So, the Patron either offers or forces divine power onto their Warlock, making them a Cleric as well. The character may or may not be okay with this, though refusing the call is not necessarily an option (especially since their boss is much more powerful now, and on the flipside willing to grant them a whole lot more power in turn).

[@Darknight4434]

Actually the cleric is even simplier. Cause isn't you that found faith, is actually the faith that chooses you

[@emanethan8767]

I’m thinking of doing a tempest cleric 2/ storm sorcerer 18. Back story is essentially a god - talos has been blessing me with power sense childhood and I never knew why, and then I discovered the reason was my blood

[@jamesrobin2857]

My favorite moment of multi-classing is Vax in Critical Role taking 1 lvl in druid for his 20th lvl to show his love towards keylith.

[@edro8826]

How bout a, "Monk / Cleric" combo. Pretty much bringing back the spiritual aspects to the monk like what u see in a shaolin temple. Would combining those two aspects / classes work?

[@cassandraxiv5223]

Multiclassing can make for interesting "new" classes. One idea I had, for instance, is the "commander", which starts with bard, in which it takes at least three levels and takes college of valor, then takes at least three levels in fighter and takes the battlemaster archetype. So you can give your comrades combat inspiration, then use a commander's strike to allow them to use it instantly. Bonus points if you also take the "Inspiring Leader"-feat. This "class" results in someone who is adept at inspiring and leading a group of adventurers into battle, a sort of "father to his men"-archetype. Then if you want to be more of a frontline fighter, you go on and take more fighter levels, and if you want to be more of a supporting spellcaster, you take more levels in bard.

[@methodofinstruction1368]

This was a great episode! One of my top 5 favorites. I think you could have a lot of material just by recording your guy's reactions to comments on previous videos. Keep up the great work!

[@JPruinc]

The shit would get meta real quick...

[@ryanwilms8216]

Great episode. I think this is a great expansion of the last video! Keep up the good work guys.

[@wirelessg18]

The spell envy jokes were fantastic

[@JPruinc]

They KNEW what they were doing!

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

"Look how they hang ..."

[@user-eo4nj9cp2v]

An example for a roleplaying multi class. My wizard I've been playing went to 4th level until he found a magic sword. He trained with that sword and became good at it and got a level in fighter.

[@chaddixon9764]

Yup, definitely agree with Jim Davis, if you are going to multi-class in my game you have to RP it.

[@royrule36]

Totally agree! Have a player who is a the son of a Northlander Jarl: Sailor background, Fighter 1/ 1 lvl Barbarian and then went Battlemaster Fighter to become a better leader of men to impress his dad. Nice and simple.

[@royrule36]

That is basically just building Artemis Entreri :p Assassin is one of those issues where it is both a job and a class archetype, a character calling himself a Mercenary or a Warrior might very easily have a whole range of multiclass skills (such as warrior/rogue), but I guess an assassin without Assassin is kinda expected. In that case it more follows the roleplaying and skillset of the character rather then class levels.

[@DatsVatSheSaid]

I have a problem with that...how do you RP Multiclassing things that rely on things that just happen, Like Warlock or Sorcerer where either a Patron has to make a deal with you..or magic explodes out of you. Those things are completely up to your GM to fit into the story otherwise no multiclass something else.

[@baconghoti]

DatsVatSheSaid sorcery is fairly easy as it can be something that kicks in under stress and adventuring is stressful, but say a circle Druid whilst on campaign?

[@cold_Lightning9]

DatsVatSheSaid You as a character can come up with a concept that makes sense and have the DM integrate it, then roleplay it out. It's not hard and preferable to just powergaming the hell out of your character. Doesn't make sense for a full on Shadow Monk to randomly become a Warlock out of nowhere just to get Devil's Sight etc. But yeah, it should be fairly easy to find a patron or discover your inner arcane talent.

[@RaineAlgessar]

I just have to add a comment to this 2 year old video :) I played a half orc, half elf barbarian/fighter in Pathfinder. He was fighting his past and orcish heritage, so for each fight he rolled a will save to avoid going into rage. If he raged more than not until we leveled up, he put his level into barbarian. If he managed to resist raging and fought tactically and more like a soldier, he got the levels in fighter. I miss that character, only got him up to lvl 5 or something before we stopped playing that campaign.

[@davidmylastname.3765]

Role play is how I ended up with one of my favorite characters of 3.0. Stargirm Sampson the 33rd. Halfling wizard barbarian. He is also the character that I slipped so far into character during one session, that my DM had to stop the game because I was freaking him out. Lol

[@alecwithac69]

I multi classed monk with one level of storm sorcerer because my monk was getting boring, not for power gaming. In fact my monk has missed out on getting my proficiency bonus at level four.

[@andrewthao4869HK]

I love multi-classing to fulfill character concepts. I play a Rogue/Wizard/(soon to be) Monk who's obsessed with becoming faster, because he found that he was always too slow. There are certainly combos that are very prone to power-gaming, but multi-classing can certainly help to just make characters more interesting.

[@Isaac-hm6ih]

Andrew Thao HK That character should start trying to find a way to transfer into a wood elf or tabaxi body, possibly be casting Reincarnation until you land on the right race.

[@andrewthao4869HK]

He actually is a Wood Elf, haha.

[@soren9780]

I play a human barbarian named Varak. He runs ~35 mph. xD he is my favorite. He has the boots of speed (doubles speed for 10 mins) Eagle barb (dash as a bonus action) mobile for the 10 feet of move, and ignores difficult terrain while dashing. He has a walking speed of 50 ft can dash twice, so 150 ft and double it with the boots so you get 300 ft of move or 200 and 2 swings :P

[@TwistedTentacleInn]

Andrew Thao HK Shut up, power gamer munchkin. Just kidding, I agree multi class in for a concept is perfectly fine and a big part of the game.

[@gcollins1992]

You guys rock. A few weeks ago I was going to talk about the downsides of multi-classing in the comments on the original video, but it's awesome to see that you're considering fan feedback.

[@HawkBarrington]

I always start my party as 3rd-5th level. Level one is such a waste of time, and every class starts to come online around 2-3.

[@walstafa]

In a 3.5 game, I played a Rogue who multiclassed into a Sorcerer later, but it was designed as part of his arc from the start. The potential had always existed in him, and it had driven him to the fringes of society as a result, but it wasn't until an encounter with an NPC Sorceror that the power within him was unlocked.

[@japphan]

I would like to argue that any good adventurer wants to become more powerful. If you think that your character's melee attacks are weak, chances are that your character also thinks they are. Having heard of the mighty strikes of paladins, your character would be interested in learning their ways. Or maybe seeing the effects of the sneak attacks of the party rogue, your character would want to learn how to do that. Your PC wants to be more powerful. If multiclassing is a good way to fix a weakness, or improve on a strength, it can actually be hard to justify, from a pure role playing standpoint, to _not_ multiclass. So you are preparing to fight a spooky spooky monster, and you choose to not be as powerful as you can?

[@Booklat1]

thank you blaming power gamers because they're ruining the fun of people who cant build powerful characters is the lamest git foucking gut ffs. And so what if there is power disbalance in the game? as long as one player isnt actively trying to make others feel bad i think its fine You don't have to be a prick about your character being OP, but then again you dont have to be a prick about anything when gaming with friends

[@unwithering5313]

I have a finesse paladin with 18 Dexterity, Constitution and Charisma so I thought it'd be a good idea to multiclass dip into Barbarian because when using a shield she has 20 AC The role play justification for it is a few things: -Learned a bit of the way from one of her friends (who is a single class Barbarian) -To be more self-sufficient; she can save resources by not needing armour -Her 'Rage' could be flavoured as her becoming hyperactive enough to sort of shrug off the pain that meets her during this

[@davidmartin6672]

My sole multiclass character is for 100% roleplaying reasons. Son of two powerful wizards, but dumb as a rock. He wears a Gandalf-style fake beard and a wizards had he bought in a joke shop and tries to pass himself off as a wizard on the street. In reality he’s a rogue. After level one, he was given warlock powers by a patron (whom he dreamed about) but he’s too dumb to realize he doesn’t have actual wizard powers. In combat, he’s continually perplexed as to why burning hands doesn’t work. So much fun to roleplay.

[@calebcrites5039]

I encourage my players to multiclass so that they can try out new builds and make individualized characters. I actually prefer that my players be power gamers so that i can utilize more intensive monsters and strategies. Whenever i get a new player i recommend a multiclass so that they can feel around for what type of classes they like. That being said i dont let players do things that explicitly undermine gameplay ie, coffeelock.

[@karateviking6916]

Thank you for mentioning that multi-classing can be a method of power gaming. I actually warned one of my players, who was new to the system, that multi-classing could make him the strongest member of the party . He proceeded to write up his character and played a Half-elf with an even split of Bard and Rogue (1st level in Rogue). Each level he gained he would alternate which class he levelled, when it came time for him to pick subclass for rogue I was almost sure he'd pick the mastermind because his charisma was the highest in the party. Instead he chose the inquisitive subclass for thematic reasons. I was so proud of him. The campaign started at 3rd level and my players are about level 10 at the moment, and it's purely because of our shit-show of a bard-rogue's role playing that they survived this long. And, while he may not be particularly good at either role (especially seeing as we have a swashbuckler rogue in the party as well), no one else is mediocre at two things at once.

[@galbert117]

Could you guys do a video on the best combinations of multiclassing that you know of? Or did you already mention this before in a previous video?

[@silver4831]

Would be a hour long video, better to just read about it online.

[@zerofire234]

In my long running PotA game, I was eaten by a shark, and in order to bring my character back, I had to make a deal with a hexblade in the Shadowfell, as it was the only thing willing to give me the power to come back. I now look like I died all the time, but I can kill anything with my sorlock

[@TheCjahlers]

what's wrong with power gaming? its not like powerful characters can't roleplay well

[@lordofcanton2598]

TheCjahlers_ - - agreed!!

[@thehalf-elfbard9622]

the problem with power gaming is that it breaks roleplay combat. imagine if you are a dm and want to have a combat that is more for the story (eg. and old slaver who imprisoned a party member) and its meant to represent a character overcoming something that tormented him in the past. a two turn combat kinda ruins the drama. as a dm with power gamers, they ruined a dramatic game by simply braking the system.

[@TheCjahlers]

that's the storm wind fallacy. roleplaying doesn't negate power or vice versa. In that example your standard fighter or barbarian with no charop could end that slaver in a round or two just from base damage and extra attacks

[@TheCjahlers]

and further what is the "break point" for power gaming? can my bard not use hypnotic pattern cause it trivializes encountersnif they fail the save?

[@thehalf-elfbard9622]

the problem comes from when you power game to such a point where they always fail the save. the example I always give is a game I DMed but let my players do what ever they like in 3.5. one player had a character with 95 speech, making it so everyone does what he wants, even killing themselves because of how 3.5 worked. the character literally became a god over the coarse of one session, by manipulating every creature to fight the gods themselves. if a power gamer can do a little extra dmg at level 2 or 3 to kill anything they would fight as a cr 3 enemy is fine but when its way too powerful, it kills the mood for the rest of the players.

[@xepher3642]

I had a tempest cleric for 2 levels that then became a storm sorcerer. I worked it with the DM that he always had the magic in him, but was so focused on his priesthood he never developed it. For his undying loyalty and service, during a fateful encounter he survived a shipwreck and the deity struck him with lightning, "activating" his latent abilities. I felt this would blend his sorcerer stuff with being a cleric since both subclasses were similarly themed anyway, allowing an overlap in lore that made sense.

[@slokin82]

My main char started as a Bard but out party has an extremely charismatic Paladin who eventually "converted" my Bard and I started multiclassing Cleric

[@silver4831]

Bard to Cleric? Should it not be Bard to Paladin? The whole charisma casting and all.

[@Levyathyn]

@@silver4831 that's taking metagaming into it. If it's natural for the character to want to be a smitey, painbringey guy, go for it; but if you're branching into a more pious, devout caster and healer, going for Paladin just to stack stat bonuses is very much picking the optimal path over roleplaying.

[@phoenix_viridis]

Multi-classing as a Sorcerer is just as easy as any class to explain, perhaps even easier. Latent magical abilities that were only recently awoken by your adventures.

[@MrSolidSilence]

In a game i was running, one of my pc's played a barbarian and contracted mummy-rot. The party left the dungeon and went back to town to the local temple and had it removed. We role-played the encounter and at the end of it the pc felt like his character would devote some time to become a cleric and at least take a couple of levels in it. multiclassing doesn't have to be about powergaming IMO.

[@JPruinc]

Exactly!

[@andrewwilliams2014]

The intros and outros are nearly always pure gold

[@RonOnTheWay]

How about an assassin or a guard who worked for wizards?

[@jimdavis141]

Another great idea!

[@nicolassagrillo1442]

Magic Intiate(Wizard)?

[@T4GVN]

Multiclassing as a sorcerer makes perfect sense to me. They only discover their magical abilities later on.

[@joshpadro5129]

Love sending these videos to my players!

[@JPruinc]

Share and share alike!

[@TheBlackZodiacGhost]

I like coming up with odd and interesting character concepts, and have a clear vision for what I want, then I dive into the books/UA and try to find classes and archetypes that fit within that, and only then do I try to optimize it by planning out when In take a level in each class, so I fall as close to the groups powerlevel as possible. Most of the times I end up with weaker, but very enjoyable characters, that have character and not just a random dude with a class attached. My latest character started at level 7. He's a storyteller who was so enthralled with the tales and mysticism surrounding the fey and the druids that he became a hermit, wandering the wilds to obtain knowledge and write a book. During the course of his journey he was trained by multiple druids as well as gaining the trust and friendship of a dryad, and became a Wild Sage (Lore Bard 5/Druid of the Land 2 and rest of levels will be Druid). Even though he will always be a weaker spellcaster than a single-class or even a spellcaster dipping a level or two, he is very enjoyable to play and have great versatility.

[@nitro012]

Of course you can multiclass while roleplaying. I have a character that is devout to his church and his God. He has seen the horrors of the world and heresy. He dived into the darkness to seek the truth, becoming an Inquisitor. Paladin/Rogue.

[@harrisonbliss]

Fantastic episode! Our DnD group definitely requires RPing for multi-classing and it has worked out fantastically. I was a fighter-sorcerer. Background: Sailor, got stranded on an isle with a fey creature. The creature charmed me and had me toil for her, overtime though she would ask me to recount my tales of the sea and eventually fell in love with the stories I would tell and the character in them, me. She fell so in love that she lifted the charm believing I felt the same way about her. Feeling trapped, my character kept up the ruse while using my sailing prowess to build a craft on the island. I eventually tried to escape and although successful was struck by her, leaving a magic imprint and a "curse" on my being, sapping all my previous memories except those of her, and branding me with a green fey hand, that would move over my body. Now I'm a wild-magic sorcerer/fighter, trying to recover my past and rid myself of the curse. One of the funnest backstories I came up with. That story has developed a lot, and I love our group. Fuck DnD is amazing.

[@Dostro89]

I disagree that Sorcerer is impossible to multiclass into, once I had a character who did exactly that in a short lived game and basically had the story that he belonged to an ancient bloodline but for reasons he hadn't seemed to inherit their power, then later, in a moment of intense stress, the power erupted from him, surprising everyone including himself

[@derrickbonsell]

I think it's one of the fluffiest multiclasses, next to perhaps Warlock. Doesn't require special training.

[@Narakuda]

I used to play a Divine-Secretkeeper in 4th edition, a warlock of the shadow pact who worshiped Shar, so I took a feat that was called divine secretkeeper, and took a couple of levels of Cleric to represent it. I loved the RP aspect of it, and my DM made sure that I remembered the communion with Shar in order to maintain my powers

[@chriswilson8931]

What about a shadow monk 6 assassin rogue 12 warlock 2?

[@treedude4246]

an example of role playing multiclassing for me was sarkas my half elf who when young was tricked into becoming a warlock and has strived to become a better person eventually multi clasing into paladin to show that he has been accepted as a good person

[@impendio]

Please make an episode on monstrous races and/or PC race lore!

[@JPruinc]

Patience...

[@jerroldsmith2489]

When you were talking about the difference between power gamers and story gamers when multiclassing, it made me think of a character of mine. He started as a Tiefling brass dragon sorc and I told my dm that I wanted my tiefling to be tempted by his devil side because I wanted the duality of a good vs bad blood, eventually he offered me a devil pact so I took a few levels in warlock and by the end I became a really powerful pyromancer character. I never thought I'd multiclass when I made him but story made me, and in the end there was a bit of power gaming there, albeit non-intentionally.

[@lukehill2000]

Could you do an episode on dinosaurs and their application?

[@AGrumpyPanda]

Apply directly to face.

[@fluffball6142]

Druid- monk- barbarion Druid as the main class in circle of the moon to transform into tanky creatures. Monk for the armor class and giving you a bonus action attack option. This will help you survive while not in wild shape. Also try to get defensive dualist to increase your AC to really high levels Barbarion for rage to double the hp from your temp hp while in wild shape

[@effenhoog]

I find it really strange that a dm would even insist on having the player provide a story reason for a character to start training to allow multiclassing. It's fine if you want to and can make for great roleplaying, but we're already playing a game where a monk can suddenly know how to teleport through shadows or cast elemental magic spells, or a barbarian can start channeling storm magic, without any additional training, just because they reach level 3. Who taught them to do that? It doesn't matter, we just accept it because the book says so. Why should we be particularly concerned about it for multiclassing, unless we just want to for roleplaying purposes? Especially for something like the ever popular shadow monk/rogue multiclass, maybe with a couple levels of warlock if you like. It just makes sense that a character would exist that wants to master that particular skill set all along, regardless of what single "job" they were forced to pick at character creation.

[@heyheyhey0220]

With milestone leveling it is easy to incorporate story into leveling

[@Darknight4434]

Extremelly easy To your examples: barbarian could have close relation to spirits. When he achieve third level, the spirits consider worth of beholding their power Monk: 1-they could already know the basis, but not how to do it 2- their master could have taught them how to physically do it, but to sucessfully manifest those elements in the world they need have a stronger body and apirit. Thing that they achieve at level 3

[@Darknight4434]

But the best way is always to choose your subclass at lvl 1 and roleplay from there

[@chandlerpearce6213]

I’m a DM and I love multiclassing and always try and get my players to multiclass. Up until now, they didn’t do it much, but one player who had 2 characters (who were best friends) a fighter and a Cleric. The cleric died, so in honour of his best friend he took levels as a cleric to continue his legacy.

[@mimsjr1994]

im goimg to multiclass shadow monk rogue because i made a character who is a sneaky monk that drops people in one punch and teleports into combat and out. he is basically a ninja. im not doing it to be a dick but because i thought it would be fun and wanted to play it

[@outerheavenman]

So you made batman?

[@CrashSable]

A shadow monk is already a ninja...

[@G-Blockster]

I like the idea of the background profession mirroring the secondary multiclass.

[@Kainpound]

I've been wanting to go with a female Drow 5/5 Cleric Warlock of Lolth, she counts as a greater demon and an intermediate god. I'd love to RP that absolute fanatic person.

[@JPruinc]

She would be ruthless, vengeful, and terrifying....Sounds AWESOME!!!

[@Error-eb9gv]

I'd like the idea of a soldier with magic potential noticed by a mage during a battle and sent to a school to hone the ability but hates the tedium of it and is expelled before completing his studies returning to the fighter class.

[@Witchgirl44]

we have one character who multi classed in my current d&d group, Maestro Bard/Warlock, he is fucking OP

[@jimdavis141]

I bet he is! That's one of the more potent combos out there.

[@Witchgirl44]

James Davis three eldritch blasts, plus a bonus action to push the enemy backwards which gives him an attack of opportunity which gives him three more eldritch blasts, and that's just one of his many tricks

[@TokyoTrainStyle]

Just an fyi, involuntary movement doesn't trigger opportunity attacks.

[@keithemerson7662]

Isaac Evans and, unless there is class features shenanigans, ranged attack in melee imposes disadvantage.

[@jamestaylor3805]

Multiclass character story, my dwarf who started as a rogue lock smith, and in seeking to become the best clockwork maker in the world attended the local bards college for the school of lore, and following leads there apprenticed himself to an archmage historian becoming a wizard of lore gathering information on what he continued to seek, from here he became an artificer for first role play, and second the tool expertise bonuses thus acheiving his goal of being the greatest master of mechanics that world had ever known. Rogue 1, Bard 3, Wizard 2, Artificer 14. He excelled as a problem solver well before "coming online" with his intended skills. It was a great play.

[@jamestaylor3805]

Oh, yeah his background progressed from inheritor, to sage, to clan crafter to clan noble...

[@iX1NS0MN14CXi]

Notifications, how I love you

[@JPruinc]

Get a pre-nup.

[@OptimusOmega6]

One of my favourite characters that I've created was 5e Protector Aasimar Cleric/Ranger build. The character theme was he was a missionary who became stranded in the swamp and learned how to survive in the wilds. Mechanically, the theme was "hack 'n' slash warrior priest," someone who would fight on the front lines while also casting support magic on himself and his teammates. On the cleric side, I took Life Domain and the war caster feat. On the Ranger side I went Hunter, two weapon fighting, and dual wielder feat. I had the advantage of creating him partway through the campaign, allowing him to start at character level 7, so I didn't have to worry about lagging behind in the early stages. He also ended up getting a hold of Ollamh's Harp, so I dipped into a level of Bard. Worth it.

[@Jawik2]

Did not have 300gp for revivify a fallen party member. Had to pledge my allegiance to Pellor as a dip to cleric. Now I will be forever retarded by one level. I guess a moral of this story is to always keep 300gp cash on you.

[@trashfire9641]

Jawik2 Clerics still have to pay the 300 gp for that spell bud. Holy symbol only replaces components without a cost.

[@Jawik2]

Yes, we were defending a village with a temple of Pellor so a local priest was there to cast revivify but still needed 300gp. So I made a promise, kinks like "if my head stops hurting, I'll never drink again". That way I had to take a dip next time we dinged.

[@trashfire9641]

Jawik2 So, where did you get your diamonds then to make the spell work?

[@michaelmorris1769]

Sounds like his DM offered an RP reward at a cost, very similar to say... a DM who offers a character who failed their last death save, the option to not die if they take their next level in warlock, but have to choose fiend as the patron. It's not RAW, but one could consider it a Homebrewed 1 time use magic item rewarded for strong roleplay.

[@TenebrisVeritatis]

Dude, that is outstanding idea

[@eggsaladthegreat9257]

I multi-classed as a Domain of Knowledge Cleric into a Warlock. Mainly, it’s because of my character’s dedication to the search for knowledge, not matter how dark or cursed that knowledge might be

[@beatlesguyEM]

Make videos about the settings. Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk... :D

[@jimdavis141]

They're on our (massive) to-shoot list.

[@politikh]

I want more of Planescape! :) Maybe... 1 video per faction?... O great factols? ;)

[@clayfare9733]

"Is it just theorycraft that you impose on the game?" That's such a useful question to keep at mind, because classes are already just theorycraft that has been imposed on the game.

[@chaddixon9764]

*Puts on Power Gamer hat*

[@DrMDHyde]

Chad-Solomon Dixon *fallows suit*

[@Kithas]

Kills them anyways because I prepared for that.

[@Tectonix26]

Personally, my exposure to multiclassing has been my "main" or most used character, a rogue that, through various different methods, has to earn the gaze of the queen of air and darkness (or whichever world's equivalent) and upon being th catalyst for enough chaos as to earn her favour, has to offer a tribute, in the form of a powerful magical artifact or a a chaotic event, for which a pact will be signed over. The first example being a pact formed over a crystal bearing the promise of great power stolen from a red wizard. The second being the offering of the chaotic nature of an orchestrated city uprising against the leading nobles.

[@Licjr]

How do you guys handle people who want to play monstrous races (a goblin ranger, for example)? Realistically most townspeople would treat a goblin as "kill on sight" unless goblins in that setting aren't seen as evil, but most people don't want to play a character that's gonna get lynched the first time they go to sell gear.

[@shadowfiresword]

That would depend on either the world setting or something on a local setting where that could be viable. Ex, normally on the sword coast goblins are arrow fodder, but the world setting might be on another plane, where they are not seen as shoot on sight. A local setting might be, the goblin pc has gotten into the local lord's favor, rescued little timmy from a well or something, and so has been given a badge to display that he is a legal citizen of the kingdom. He might not be liked, but it should keep the peasants from lynching him on sight.

[@docnoximus]

I've played out 17/3 Lore Bard Sorc, goblin Noble. Lol, he was a half breed slave in the fire plane. Bought by an ambassador mage from Neverwinter. Raised like the son the man never had. When politics sees the old wizard killed. The goblin accepts his inheritance, and vows vengeance for the death of his mentor and father. Baron Von Alvilag, Let Vengeance Burn them all! Was such a fun character! He ended up unleashing a dawn titan upon a Lich's army of vampires and zombies. The Expensive, black dragon hide suit made think twice about attacking mindlessly.

[@silver4831]

Apart from places like Waterdeep, monster races are not exactly welcome. Even the Elven settlements will chase down and shoot them up.

[@tylerdurham6091]

Check season 2 of Critical Role I'd for interested in playing a goblin. They make sure whenever they go into town the goblin wears a mask and hood, things like that.

[@redoryx1872]

The half fiend story really hits home for me lol. I'm playing my first ever character, a half orc fighter, and the dm gave me a choker last week that had some 'light magical aura' on it. Now my fighter has to make a wisdom save (my second worst stat) every time someone gives her a command in order to retain autonomy. Hasn't spiraled off into a paladin-murder-spree *yet* but I definitely anticipate something of that nature on the horizon.

[@MrAces023]

you guys make my Wednesday!

[@Zone1455]

You guys make my weed

[@chaddixon9764]

These guys make your wed---ding?

[@MrAces023]

freudian slip lol?

[@JPruinc]

Weedsday?

[@grandiflora8479]

I feel like the number 1 reason to multiclass is to avoid some of class systems limitations on character concepts possible. I am especially fond of rogue/spellcaster or fighter or paladin/spellcaster. My most memorable character was supposed to be a full rogue but because of how the story progressed he kinda had to become a warlock multiclass too XD Also while making my first 4e character (still hasnt gotten to test her yet sadly) and I was looking trough the options as I was developing her backstory and such. So I decided I wanted to try one of the multiclass systems in place so I could compare how I like it to how 5e does it... and I wanted two classes that made sense, and I remembered I had heard Blackguards gets to choose a vice and one was fury so I thought "awesome! Barbarians get rage so this will fit!" So I picked those two. Then I read rage in 4e is actually not raging but rather letting yourself be possessed by spirits.... *buuut* blackguards had to be religious, so I decided she worshipped these spirits. I also decided after seeing how many abilities both had related to getting bonuses from blood related stuff to make her a vryloka since that seemed to be basicly a vampire, plus it allowed her to have a cool eye colour with red eyes. Long story short she eventually evolved into a very religious kind-hearted perky goth girl with a bit of a rebellious streak. All by just looking at what would seem fun to use in gameplay. (Her belief is more based around spirits and such and less of a big capital G God too wich feels a bit more fresh.) I feel like I would never have thought of that character had I not been wanting to multiclass and she felt a lot more unique then my 3rd "quirky bard who doesnt know when to shut up". I have a similar idea I wanna try for 5e, a totem warrior barbarian/vengeance paladin. Might make her the same character or not but im not sure... if I do ill need to get around to homebrewing a Vryloka for 5e but it could be fun! p.s If anyone reads this and has any ideas to help get down a similar feel to a Vryloka without doing a potentially unbalanced homebrew for 5e id love to hear it!

[@The482075]

Let's say that you're a wizard with the following stats: Strength: 8 Dexterity: 6 Constitution: 4 Wisdom: 5 Intelligence: 9 Charisma: 4 Maybe multi-classing might be a viable option...

[@seanvigil2899]

Great video guys! I liked how you looked at the topic from multiple angles.

[@theonlymatthew.l]

It's so ridiculous how some close minded individuals think that making a mechanically good character and role-playing outside of combat are mutually exclusive. It's called the Stormwind Fallacy.

[@bradleyread2539]

Always looking forward to shows talking about this stuff. Helps me decide on ways to either throw my DM for a loop and make all kinds of random characters. I really love being able to see all kinds of characters. Also helped me be open to multiclassing to create some more renowned characters to throw at players rather than just a full class. Next time I'm able to join a campaign I am going to be running a rogue fighter that may or may not have a certain grudge against a dark elf.

[@blackdragonxtra]

If someone wanted to multiclass into sorcerer, I would make them start out with Magic Initiate and say it was innate casting ability.

[@DragonKnightJin]

I had an idea for a VHuman Fighter, Guild Merchant background. Traveling scavenger, using his Familiar to help find armor and weapons on abandoned battlefieds, then clean it with Prestidigitation and Mending. Load it up on the cart, wheel the thing into town, and unload his wares for some cash to feed the mule and himself. Then travel onward and start fresh. Reason for joining a party? Apparently, if you get stronger and can kill shit yourself? You get dibs on better loot!

[@pbtenchi]

One of my most popular pathfinder characters is Do It All James. A level one rogue who multi classed into as many non prestige/third party classes as he could.