What's Inside a Tesla 4680 Battery?

[@MunroLive]

Limited Edition Pink Foam of Death Tee! Buy Now: munro-live-store.creator-spring.com/listing/pink-foam-of-death-band-tee

[@kalmmonke5037]

how is battery recycling

[@JerryRigEverything]

Such a cool video! Can't wait to see the Cyber Truck in your shop!

[@zeren7217]

Wait! 10 hours and no one has replied? Hey Jerry love your videos and thanks for recommending this video!

[@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936]

Assuming it will go into production. ( At least in any semblance of the prototype, and not a more traditional pickup form factor ) More chance someone will take an old military vehicle, and electrify it. 😀 Jerry, loved your recent cell-phone teardowns.

[@NMSHAFKI]

I'm here after you video Jerry :D

[@Mike-.]

@@NMSHAFKI samsies!

[@maand0]

So where is the lithium?

[@transendre1]

How "explosive" or volatile is the 4680? Since you guys have been taking so many safety precautions, it would be interesting to see some real destructive testing. Could use cells that are slightly damaged. Fire/heat test, nail test, water test, overload test, charge/discharge test, crush test(under hydraulic press), bullet test, freeze test, and throw-it-at-a-cybertruck test.

[@veshares6552]

Yes we want 💥

[@Cloxxki]

Bingo. But enclosure is a factor as well. Are there standardized tests yet for intrusion from the road surface side? There was the case of someone sh00ting into the floor of his Model S, the pack didn't like that. is that risk greater with the pack having now only layer less between cabin and cells?

[@Mr2winners]

Hit one with a drill or axe (a charged one)

[@RealDufour]

Love the last test, made me laugh! "throw-it-at-a-cybertruck test"

[@JRP3]

They are overplaying the danger. 4680 format is no more dangerous than others to take apart. Fake drama.

[@NikoSeventeen]

I really love these breakdowns and analysis so much. As a person with little knowledge and experience though, I miss Sandy coming in and telling me how this compares to other companies, where this puts Tesla, how relatively advanced the tech and techniques are, the pros and cons, what it says about the future, and generally just converting this data into useable information for a normie like me. These are enjoyable even though it feels more like a munro ad selling the reports.

[@culdeus9559]

Sandy is great, but hit expertise is final assembly. He will give way to the experts on individual components where needed.

[@NikoSeventeen]

@@culdeus9559 Exactly! I like having the expert to go over the details, then having someone (Usually its Sandy) to translate that into something a dummy like me can take away. Otherwise it is just technical speak for a very small group of people to really appreciate. Maybe it doesn't have to be Sandy, and maybe Munro doesn't really care about informing the general public about what is going on enough to spend the time and energy to do it for every single video, but from what I am understanding, Tesla is pulling off incredible feats of the future that I am excited about. It is hard to share that excitement with others who don't particularly know about it or care, when I can only share technical jargon videos with friends and family that they watch and just go "okay....?"

[@arimcbrown]

Is it just me or is Cory getting in better shape each episode?

[@MunroLive]

💪🏼

[@emmanuelgutierrez8616]

Same thought. Obviously been cleaning up fir the show

[@vermontsownboy6957]

This is where Munro (and Antonio) excel in their technical knowledge, presentation, and content. This matters to me, and I appreciate it.

[@squee8174]

Yes, this is where i should shine. Haha

[@geordonworley5618]

I recommend checking out The Limiting Factor as well for some even more in depth videos of battery tear-down in a lab setting in a nitrogen fume hood so that the original materials can be preserved and detected. They have ordered a cell from Munroe to test the latest cells, as the one they tested was from Kato road many months back and not from Texas.

[@dosso96]

Any recent updates about 4680? I have the feeling things are nit going well…

[@BatterVswithAntonio]

@@dosso96 Believe it lost some weight.

[@MDC_1985]

Just a bit of advice for cutting open the individual batteries: Chuck the battery up in a lathe and mount a Dremel tool on the tool post. Using a very thin abrasive cutting disk or one of the serrated metal cutting disks, you should be able to use the cross slide to slowly feed the running dremel tool's cutting disk (with the lathe also running, but at very low rpm, 5-20 rpm) into the body of the battery. It's a nice way to precisely control the cutting of thin metals, especially those prone to tearing. I prefer the abrasive disks for this, but for your purposes, it might be easier to control the heat generated with a serrated metal cutting disk than with an abrasive disk. Seriously though, this is great for all kinds of cylindrical/conical/spherical (and anything in between) objects with thin walls (Stainless, Carbon fiber, whatever) as long as the part can be held in the chuck, it works great!

[@squee8174]

... May have done something similar. No lathe though

[@TheJesusFreeke]

Excellent! Looks like this was waaaay easier than the pack breakdown lol. Thankful y'all caught a small break. :)

[@teslahype]

Been waiting for this one! Thanks Munro & Associates team 💪

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@MostViewedTop40]

Great stuff. CT scans were cool and really helpful to see how it's put together.

[@DerKrawallkeks]

Could you put some of the cells into a cell tester, and run cycles, see how they perform and age?:)

[@thedownwardmachine]

Amazing to see this after waiting so long! Thank you for all your hard work!

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@thebackyardhomestead1510]

Such a good breakdown video. Thanks Munro team!

[@keithrange4457]

This is one of the most interesting videos you all have put out. Thank you for the close up zooms of all the guts!

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@PrayagIyer]

Thank you folks, wonderful insight. Seen a few 4680 cell breakdown/teardown videos so far, this one is the perfect blend of technical details and practical implications

[@rogerstarkey5390]

A few? Only seen one myself.

[@PrayagIyer]

​@@rogerstarkey5390 You're probably right, the only other real teardown is from The Limiting Factor. Others are all theoretical/graphical

[@rogerstarkey5390]

NEVER clicked so fast!

[@karmakh]

Nice, another one! Excited to see what you reveal this time. Thanks is advance!

[@MunroLive]

You bet!

[@tomtomtooooom]

Brilliant guys, thanks so much for this

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@top5ok]

Munro's media management is commendable too.Enjoyed it...!!!Love from Pakistan.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Wooohooo!

[@johntheux9238]

So that's basically the same battery you got your hands on? (NMC cathode with wet binding and anode with dry binding)

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

🤗👋 HI JORDAN…💚💚💚

[@thelimitingfactor]

@@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461 🤜🤛🤠

[@thelimitingfactor]

@@johntheux9238 Looks like it! Won't know until it gets tested.

[@arthanareeswaranbalasubram1147]

One of the best video series

[@SundanceHelicopterTours]

excellent, short crisp interessting video. Thank you.

[@paullester2535]

so much engineering in a little can!

[@vidznstuff1]

It's a big can - full of bandaids.

[@paullester2535]

@@vidznstuff1 can you expand on that?

[@damilareowosangba7864]

@@paullester2535 you will never get one from 🤡s

[@normal-cee869]

@@vidznstuff1 you can't just throw a statement out there with no explanation - I am not a Tesla fan boy but appreciate their tech

[@mileshardeem2375]

I'm like a couch engineer I love this stuff. Moar videos plz y'all r awesome thanks for sharing accurate quality information. Too much of the internet is opinion and fake it till you make it confidence and miss information you guys provide quality information. 👏👍

[@jred201]

Just bought a Model Y 4680. Fascinating video to watch. Thanks.

[@stevepailet8258]

as always figuring out how this battery was engineered is amazing thank you

[@tpad6]

Came here from watching Dan's video on What's Inside! Awesome!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching Antonio!

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

🤗 MYSELF AS WELL…GREAT INSITES AS WELL 😁💚💚💚

[@TomTom-cm2oq]

I must have missed something, because in the beginning it was mentioned that this was the most exciting thing in years at Munro. But it’s been sitting on the shelf for 3 to 4 months? Someone please explain how that makes sense? Great video by the way! I’ve been waiting anxiously for this for 3 to 4 months!!! :)

[@AudiTTQuattro2003]

The equipment manufacturing those cell is no less a feat of engineering than the giga-press, and maybe even more so. The continuous consistency required is mind boggling.

[@markplott4820]

not to mention, all the Parts & Process elminated, toxic chemicals , eliminated, and the long ovens.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

LOL….. it’s just additionalem machines to the already existing batteries assembly line nothing more

[@carholic-sz3qv]

@@markplott4820 billshit!!! Toxic chemicals are still needed to make batteries stop talking crap!!!

[@cengeb]

xray spectrometer is elemental analysis...not composition

[@Capthrax1]

@@carholic-sz3qv it's less machines actually and it's machines built specifically for it. You make it obvious that you don't understand how complicated industrial processes are

[@gust9464]

Excellent videos. Thank you Munro team👍⚡️

[@paulkieffer1189]

Bingo!! Amazing work!!!

[@MunroLive]

Thank you!

[@areitu]

@@MunroLive keep up the great work!

[@marklearmonth9380]

Amazing display, thank you.

[@MrFoxRobert]

Thank you!

[@MunroLive]

You're very welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@charlesrovira5707]

_Extremely_ informative as *_always._* I love watching your videos.

[@MunroLive]

Glad you like them!

[@thet0ast3r]

The thing is: they call it tabless because a tab is normally not the foil of the anode/cathode, but a small piece of metal welded to the anode/cathode. They cut the electrode and fold it over, and then collect it with this copper piece, which one could call the "tab"

[@brianb-p6586]

I agree. It's not tabless - it has a continuous row of tabs comprised of the conductive sheet material, rather than a small tab added-on.

[@SxWerks]

Should be called All Tab.

[@CaptainEli]

Good job guys

[@MunroLive]

Thanks Captain Eli

[@CaptainEli]

@@MunroLive big fan

[@mubbywub]

Bro congratulated without watching the video

[@TroyRubert]

I would get those CT scan printed on metal to hang on my wall. So beautiful.

[@beilkster]

I've been waiting to this!

[@CiaranMcHale]

A minor point on terminology. According the "The Limiting Factor" channel (and an internet search confirms this), the term "tab" refers to a *separate strip of metal* that is welded to provide connectivity. In the 4680 battery, the tab-like flaps are not separate pieces of metal that have been welded to the jelly roll, but rather are part of the jelly roll's metal backing itself, and a laser was used to cut the flap shapes. Hence, it is correct to refer to the 4680 being "tabless" rather than "multi-tab". I don't come from a battery background, but I *assume* a multi-tab design would provide similar electrical characteristics to a tabless design. I also *assume* that using a laser to cut tab-like flaps into the jelly roll's metal backing offers advantages over welding multiple tabs to the jelly roll's backing, such as perhaps it is cheaper, faster, or more reliable.

[@joansparky4439]

a tab is a piece that sticks out.. just like browser tabs That for economies of manufacturing reasons in roll-to-roll production for efficiency purposes they spot/laser/etc. well extra strips ONTO the strips that form the rolls is not what makes them tabs. And when the tabs run for the whole length of one side of a strip they still are called tabs and it doesn't become tab-less. I also doubt that the cut ins for both the copper and aluminium base material have been done by laser.. a simple cut/shear wheel running over one side in the roll-to-roll process would do just fine.

[@andrewbaek6691]

Came from JerryRigEverything!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks Andrew

[@mimmipiggast2243]

So exciting to follow this journey to the core of 4680! Thank you!!

[@morrisg]

As we see more of the insides of the 4680 cell, I think people are beginning to realize that Tesla has advanced the state of engineering of cylindrical cells. They have reduced the path length of the electrons by a factor of 20 compared to a single tab design and thereby reduced the internal resistance as well. With lower internal resistance comes greater ability to discharge or charge at high rates with much less waste heat generation. I think this is why BMW has switched to 4680 form factor cells for their new EV designs. An engineer finally did the analysis and convinced the management chain that it was a much better design.

[@NTNLabs]

I'm surprised how simple it is.

[@areitu]

The 4680 form factor was co-developed with Panasonic, who will be releasing their own version of the cell. According to a battery industry insider, one helped BYD and CATL build their plants, Tesla isn't the only company developing new form factors and manufacturing methods and the difference is that they are far more public about what they're doing

[@givanildosouza6904]

​@@areituPanasonic are not using Tesla's tabless design but they are using more than 1 tab to try and mimic the effect while still doing what they are comfortable with. Also we'll have to see if they do dry battery electrodes as well since Tesla are still struggling with it, at least when it comes to the anode. Not sure why they wouldn't go with Tesla's design but it kind of shows they did not co-develop it.

[@iamalmostanonymous]

Would like to a see a cylindrical vs rectangular cell comparison. Packaging, energy density, cell integrity, thermal distribution, etc.

[@blackrockcity]

@@NTNLabs elegant but not simple at all. A factory has to spit out millions of batteries so fast that you can’t see them moving.

[@TheBuccaneerEngineer]

Excellent work guys!😊

[@Dontslaythybroski]

very interesting! thank you! I hope Tesla can get the production of these under control.

[@vidznstuff1]

Panasonic was clearly brought back to do that.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@vidznstuff1 Panasonic seemed (seem) rather eager to continue the relationship. It's essentially a license to print money.

[@nguyep4]

@@vidznstuff1 Panasonic method is different. Tesla will continue to work out the dry process and among others to take the high volume production rate advantages associated with it.

[@brednbudr2406]

This is all so over my head, but still enjoy watching. From what I gather, it's perdy dernn gud.

[@AndyRRR0791]

This is super cool! Will you be running any electrical charge/discharge testing on a cell and looking at the thermal properties of this new design?

[@sherpa972]

Value received, thank you.

[@bohicajohnson7203]

An amazing look at the battery!

[@danneil8778]

Thanks, guys.

[@kevinmatthews2620]

Truly worth the wait Cory, i would imagine the likes of Mary Poppins & Oliver Bloom have been waiting for this too :) :) Go Team Munro :) :)

[@Cloxxki]

Now if only it were able to offer cars 54% more range as promised. For now, the Model Y gets LESS range than with 3rd party 2170s. If the cell doesn't have significant advantage beyond theoretical cost (their 2170s never seemed worth expanding as they just imported whatever they could get their hands on, and all seemed cheaper and better than Giga Nevada cells), 4680 can't be used for Plaid+ and Roadster and be decently usable cars with the promised specs. No-one promised Roadster would be LIGHT, but with 200 kwh of these cells, that's already 720 kg of cells, likely 1000 kg for a pack all welded up, and only if record breaking for gross/net energy density. 54% more range on the Plaid would simple mean 50% more weight in the cells. Can the pack overheid be trimmed to compensate? Not so sure judging from Model Y being near identical weight for the 4680 but down on capacity and range, at least for now. Semi relies A LOT on energy density to get huge range and not ruin payload. Cyber with 500 mile range needs a 180-210 kWh pack as well. Or will they have a new process to make the steel exoskeleton end up super slick for aero? Worth developing for millions of trucks I guess, but Tesla tend to stumble a lot when innovating.

[@thacrypt223]

Jerry sent me!😊 Edit: I enjoyed watching this btw! It was really interesting.

[@MunroLive]

Welcome!

[@jaybyrdcybertruck1082]

Thanxs guys! you rock!

[@Yanquetino]

I was curious to see this video after you mentioned it at Fully Charged LIVE. Your description is very informative! I have to say that building these cells seems like a more complicated process than I had imagined.

[@MrJudgeworm]

Thanks for the look inside fellas. That cathode materials is pretty different than what I was thinking. Recycling these should be relatively straight forward. The dang thing unrolls conveniently.

[@brianb-p6586]

No one is going to delicately disassemble cells for recycling. The method is shred and separate.

[@ecospider5]

Very interesting construction.

[@fred993a]

Cory and Antonio - Given the danger, thank you for an excellent analysis.

[@JRP3]

Danger is minimal. People have been taking apart cells for years, no extra danger in the 4680 cell.

[@Cloxxki]

Come on people who pay sticker for their Teslas have been known to shag in the back seat while on AP, do some gaming while on AP, do maximum accelerations in narrow streets, etc. Munro are pros. Invested in the gear, and can dismantle bombs pretty much.

[@cliftonsr]

That copper also makes a great heat sink, awesome battery

[@vidznstuff1]

It's not a heat sink

[@cliftonsr]

@@vidznstuff1 I said also makes a great heat sink, copper has many uses besides electrical conductivity and they need to make sure the heat can be transferred out of the cell

[@rogerstarkey5390]

The point is, the short electrical path, up/ down to the tabs rather than along the whole length, reduces resistance, which normally causes heat. Therefore there's less, if any heat produced in the first place. Heat being energy, now not wasted the cell becomes more efficient. Implications for:- Efficiency of the cell (and pack). Heat stress reduction in the cathode / anode, improving longevity. Even temperature through the pack and reduced pack cooling required. Quite possibly faster charging (reduced throttling) ... As for the tabs, it's a conductor, normally electrical, but of heat if needed.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Very cool. This is a GEN 1 design. The way that the battery can is sealed and the current collector design will be different in GEN 2.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Jon, Was the "Jordan" cell a "1" and this is a "2"? This seems to have a dry cathode? (Maybe the one you speak of is a *3* ??)

[@Cleanerwatt]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Jordan's cell was a GEN 1. What makes you think that this is a DRY Cathode? I believe it is a wet process and doesn't have the POLYMER binder like the anode side which is holding togther much better.

[@muntar123]

Totally awesome well done guys

[@TobiasKornmayer]

Antonio looks like a friendly giant eager to crunch through more cells :D

[@BatterVswithAntonio]

😁🤣

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

THANKS CORY AND ANTONIO,AND EVERYONE AT MUNRO…FOR ALL YOUR 😓 HARD WORK…👍 And CORY looking cool 😎 calm and collected at 3:26 in the afternoon 😁💚💚💚

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@zodiacfml]

pricey to make but an improvement from 2170/1865. then again, consider that past months was the first time in Tesla's history they weren't battery constrained despite the highest production numbers yet. It happened due to LFP batteries. I reckon, Model 3/Y Long Ranges will transition to LFP once the Semi/CT ramps so that these large vehicles get all the nickel based batteries.

[@NickBotha]

Came from what’s inside family 👍🏼

[@koeniglicher]

What is the capacity of a cell in Amp hours or multiplied with nominal voltage: the capacity in Watt hours? Did you do measurements at cell level?

[@Cloxxki]

Initial reports are that it's still in the 270 Wh/kg ballpark, perhaps on the higher side of that. Explains why the "OMG it's almost structural" Model Y is just barely lighter than the previous version, while having a lot less energy capacity and range. It it's 5.5 times larder than a 2170. If this costs less than 5.5x as much to product, they can try to make it worth there while NOT to simply buy LG cells like they have been. It gets interesting when they can make one of these for the price of 3x 2170, I guess. Apparently it can handle the energy demand cycles for a Model Y. I wonder whether it's ready to do the same for the Plaid. However, from the looks of things, it's NOT ready to bring Plaid and Roadster, even Semi and Cyber, the capacity they need, by lack of energy density.

[@Cloxxki]

I personally don't like amp hours because it implies that all voltage are the same. While many are, I don't like the premise that leads to the use of amp hours. YMMV.

[@alanrickett2537]

​@@Cloxxki source for them buying LG cells they buy from a lot of makers but not seen proof of LG

[@aurelio-reymilaorcabal9669]

@@alanrickett2537 I believe Giga Shanghai is using LG 2170 cells for higher end Tesla mod 3 and Y

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@Cloxxki You've got a surprise coming.tbey already said (weeks ago) "we were surprised by the cell performance" (It's not the same chemistry as the "Limiting Factor" cell)

[@patoripraha]

Awesome cell, really nice piece of tech.

[@shinidami1418]

JerryRigEverything is why I’m here.

[@armanke13]

Me two

[@steveewing9601]

A simple suggestion… how about placing an 8 or 12 ounce Pepsi can beside a 4680 for scale, something anybody watching can instantly relate to!

[@brianb-p6586]

Unfortunately there are multiple sizes of Pepsi can, so it doesn't help much. The dimensions are right in the name... got a ruler? The 355 ml (12 oz) cans in my refrigerator are 66 mm in diameter and 123 mm tall, so the 46x80 mm cells are about two-thirds as big in each dimension. The 4680 would ideally be a 133 ml (4.5 oz)... so even smaller than an 8 oz can but I'm not really familiar with that size.

[@jrb_sland5066]

Fascinating! We have come a very long way from the zinc-carbon D-size flashlight batteries of my youth {I'm 74}.

[@michaelplotkin7383]

Great job. Thank you.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching!

[@parrottm76262]

Love the CT scan. I would love to know what Tesla's internal scrap rate is for those cells, and if they are going up or down the learning curve for the current design.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

The scrap might be super high loocking at how fragile the interior of the cell is

[@royh6526]

I watched another video where the guy claims he has an inside source. According to him, to solve the calendaring problem they have had to run at 20% of the original target speed. But they only have a 2% to 3% scrap rate. I'm sure they are working hard to get the speed up.

[@Przybylski713]

I believe Tesla said scrap rate at battery day.

[@Cadcare]

Dah nant, dah nah nant dah (repeat)... love the show.

[@stephenhumble7627]

The original design tesla showed on battery day did not have any welds to the jelly roll terminals instead they just used pressure against the end caps to provide thermal and electrical connection. I was surprising that that pressure contact alone was going to be good enough when those cells are subject to vibration and thermal cycling and contact corrosion and resistance heating inside the cell. Those flower petal end terminals with the roll tabs welded to them solve the terminal corrosion and resistive heating concern and they also act as a heat spreader so they must have found that pressure alone was not going to be good enough - and it also helps explain why it has taken longer than expected for the 4860 to reach production as they were supposed to be switching over much sooner than they have done. The new design seems very good.

[@OrganicStuff1]

I was waiting for a 4680 build but couldn't wait as I needed a car, ended up getting a Freemont build

[@vidznstuff1]

Lucky you - the gigacastings are writeoffs if damaged. The cells are impossible to salvage, which makes cash recovery by insurance companies very poor -- watch for higher insurance rates.

[@joey_after_midnight]

I was split between this decision myself and then came to the conclusion that Cutting Edge" isn't always the best place to be. They have a lot of manufacturing processes to experiment with and work out and I needed a stable reliable car, even if they can fix most things with a software update. The 2170 is proven tech.

[@unitrader403]

@@vidznstuff1 any Car would be a Writeoff with the damage required to get to the Castings..

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@unitrader403 Let the FUDs keep moaning, it's of little consequence 😉👍

[@joansparky4439]

top job guys

[@paulsandgren8625]

I would love to see another video about this battery but with explanations of the terms they are using which have gone over my head.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Watch the Limiting Factor

[@farmerpete6274]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Will do! and thanks for the tip.

[@hybridinnovate]

Ну наконец-то, дождался. А как же так без сварки, просто прижатие. Но так дешевле техпроцесс). Банки титанатные также сделаны

[@namelessdata4608]

Is the disassembly video going to be posted to this KZbin channel or elsewhere?

[@MinusYCore]

Copper 'rivet'/ pressure relief is inserted after electrolyte fill, it isn't used as a locating feature.

[@tesla_tap]

Is there an electrolyte fill? Looks quite dry to me. I'd expect a gooey mess when they pulled it apart if the electrolyte was a liquid. Seems Tesla is using a dry process now.

[@MinusYCore]

@@tesla_tap Tesla (Maxwell) dry process is for electrode manufacturing (no solvent to evaporate). Cells still have electrolyte that ions travel through. They only add enough to saturate the separator, no extra to slosh. A solid electrolyte cell would be totally dry.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@tesla_tap The electrolyte is drained and likely evaporates - it's a volatile hydrocarbon solvent.

[@bradenruggeri2108]

Hey guys great video...given the teardown you've done to the cell now do you see the potential in the current design that would lend credence to reports that Tesla is having production yield issues of this cell? Switching gears a bit....any thoughts on doing a performance assessment against other cells? Like a cell showdown of sorts. Cyber cell off :)

[@rogerstarkey5390]

I count (at least) 7 new processes to be perfected in this cell. Not even the "tradition manufacturers" have used them (they possibly still don't use them all?) When they *do* get this right it's going to be transformative . As for the comparison, we already know the previous stripdown used a "lower grade" cathode material (Below the 2170 standard) The jist I got from this is that it's upgraded. Sandy already said they were "surprised" by the performance of this iteration, it was better than expected. . Now consider they gave an indication of the composition, but it isn't absolute cutting edge(?) . That indicates there's a lot more scope for improvement.

[@jasonsadventure]

I am so fricken impressed by the sheer volume of awesome, innovative genius of Elon Musk's Tesla. Not just the 4680, it's FSD, the GigaPress, the Dojo Super Computer, GigaFactorys, octovalves, and on and on. It's breathtaking to such a degree, I feel fortunate to be alive, as a Computer Scientist, to see all this unfold in real time. Amazing. Inspiring. Historic. Even more so, that it's in a critical, bread-n-butter industry that actually fights innovation.

[@Cloxxki]

4680s are not really impressive thus far. Only when they make true to promises other than can size, will it count. Remember the 2170 hype? I do. And I've seen how they followed up. What's different this time? Jus that there is less Panasonic involvement? Energy density is basically the same as Nevada or LG 2170 cells. But Model Y is not seeing benefit from the "structural" design supposed to save weight or bring "54% more range". Not even 1%.

[@jensenh4832]

This is why I've decided to consolidate into Tesla for my long and short term investment plans lol

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@Cloxxki You keep disbelieving, I'll keep laughing.

[@Cloxxki]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Do you see a cell with high energy density? Do you see success in the 2170 program? Enlighten me how they delivered on promises?

[@EinzigfreierName]

@@Cloxxki I agree but if they can scale up production, the 4680s may become more cost effective as a 21700 could probably be. And that's what it's all about in my opinion.

[@markmd9]

What is important is performance and security! I want to see a test where this battery is better than others. Who made it, how it was made doesn't matter.

[@QuantumBraced]

The fact that one of these holds about 100 Wh is pretty impressive. That's about 720 Wh/L. Amazing.

[@emceh]

Do you think they could make LFP in such 4680 format too?

[@eigenvalue9358]

Looks pretty similar to the one from the Limiting Factor, which indicates that measurements by UCSD could be correct for now. It would be interesting to see if Munro found liquid electrolyte and if the cathode was still made with wet process.

[@PR-hl9pm]

It uses liquid electrolyte. 100% guaranteed

[@ranig2848]

I believe the new 4680 that Munro got has thinner enclosure so would offer better Wh/Kg than the earlier 4680 that was analyzed in SD

[@eigenvalue9358]

@@ranig2848 what does lead you to this belief?

[@ranig2848]

@@eigenvalue9358 Munro mentioned that in one of the previous videos. They said the batteries had fairly thin shell whereas in the SD videos they said the cans were thick. We’ll know more when SD gets the Munro cells via The Limiting Factor.

[@eigenvalue9358]

​@@ranig2848 just measuring pixels at 3:30 indicates the same thickness to me. obv this is the most precise method to determine the actual value 😂😂

[@beyerch]

How closely does the composition of the battery align with what they told people at battery day, years ago? This cell was supposed to be denser and use different materialx allow for more power density.

[@gregbailey45]

As I understand and can remember, it is virtually exactly what they predicted on battery day!

[@TheFutureThoughtExchange]

Love how Munro Live is pre-recorded 🤪

[@brianbeasley7270]

Interestingly, (If I understand the topology you show), that brittle cathode material with a fracture will generally not cause a cell failure since it has the continuous tab construction. So a vertical break doesn't prevent conduction to the edge. A horizontal break would potentially take part of the capacity out but only over the area of the horizontal breakage of the material! So this seems intrinsically more fault tolerant than the tabbed design where a vertical break in the cathode material could open up the conduction path of nearly the entire cell creating a failure (due to the conduction path being mostly horizontal in the jelly roll and only one conduction point out.

[@goldreverre]

Good point.

[@vidznstuff1]

...which is the reason for the multiple tabs....it's clearly not thermal.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@goldreverre Beat me to it!! 👍

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@vidznstuff1 If you'd paid any attention to anything said a out this cell, you'd know it's absolutely "thermal" (resistive heating)

[@AudiTTQuattro2003]

...maybe, but what about heat dissipation or resistance heat at the break edges. Given what we have seen so far, the level of control during manufacturing ensures that breaks are not an issue, would be my best guess. Nothing here is simple or left to chance.

[@joey_after_midnight]

Suggestion Cory, split the screen and put animatics or graphics on the Right hand side that highlights or points to the cell diagram while your showing and talking.. so we can get a feel for "where" we are with respect to everything else laid out on the table.

[@paintedpony2935]

Did you not listen? More to follow.

[@vidznstuff1]

Battery engineers know where they are -- you're just along for the ride.

[@allenahil]

I did not hear the aluminum versus copper version. Did I miss something? Which one we are using, AL or Copper?

[@philipp594]

Will you guys make a conclusion video about the model 3 from austin? Would be nice to know how much has improved / still can be improved and how key metrics like weight, capacity efficiency etc. evolved.

[@lcazier619]

Nice Milwaukee packout setup

[@MunroLive]

Thanks 👍

[@Stephen-wi7zl]

We need more Sandy Rants… thank you very much.

[@SxWerks]

Really good breakdown of the 4680. ML is the best.

[@termiterasin]

The reason the flowers use inverted contacts (coming from inside or out) is to improve life by balancing where energy is pulled from.

[@hardwareful]

2 Notifications :D Hey, just adding some levity. Excellent progress on the cell teardown! Can't wait to see SEM images and perhaps an EDX analysis.

[@MbT379]

Incredible

[@lightdark00]

Fire is packed inside!

[@hotrodandrube9119]

Awesome teardown! Were any of the cells cycled to see the power density or the capacity of the total complete cell?

[@theawfullest]

This is the question in my head -- and I'm wondering why they've delayed talking about battery performance. Total speculation, but I imagine if Tesla really were sandbagging performance they might politely ask them not to reveal anything yet.

[@tonystolz4982]

Wow, good teardown and explanation. The "flower petal" is actually the Galactic Empire logo...Elon sense of humor yet again.

[@himmura]

The spice must flow.