'Munster need more support if they're to return to European top table'

Bernard Jackman and Murray Kinsella join Gavan Casey to look back on an eventful, sun-drenched weekend of rugby.
Berch expands upon his Sindo column which 'energised' an online cohort of Munster fans in particular.
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[@brianmurray6287]

Connacht and Ulster would love to complete in Europe too..and need even more help than Munster.

[@Chris-vw8yj]

2 six nations championships in a row, 1 grand slam, record setting unbeaten streaks, 2 EPRC finalists in a row and a URC title. I think Irish rugby is in a fine place for having so little resources compared to larger countries.

[@jmo8934]

I think I must be missing something. Leinster sign one South African that Munster are letting go to replace another South African that Munster also let go. On top of that they are signing Jordie Barrett for 12-15 games and all he’ll braked loose talking about central contracts etc. About 15 years ago or more Munster had most of the top players and most of the central contracts. Where was the outrage then? Are you going to give these contracts to the individuals who deserve them or just spread them around the provinces for the sake of an equal spread. You will end up with the ludicrous situation of players who probably can’t make an Ireland squad with a central contract and someone who could be a regular starter without one. The options are other than leaving things as they are and the other provinces actually producing better players to increase the number of central contracts on offer which will cost more money or maybe cut the amount that a central contract pays to say two thirds of the players salary and the province pay one third. That in theory would allow 33% more central contracts to be established. No guarantee they would go outside of Leinster though still,

[@peadarr]

Don't think Munster ever had even half the central contracts at one time. In the 2000 every player that played regularly for Ireland had a central contract, there were usually about 25 at any one time. Munster having 10 or 11 out of 25 is no way comparable to Leinster having 10 out of 13 or 14

[@3108dd]

The best proposal I've heard is the provinces pay a flat 100k for each player on a central contract, and the IRFU pays the rest. The discussion shouldn't be about how many from each province, it should remain a meritocracy. But no province should be getting its top players for free, it should pay the average player salary for them. With the IRFU paying the rest, so that provinces aren't penalised for developing top players (by them becoming too expensive).

[@derekdevaney2242]

I think maybe your missing Jackmann’s point here, and it’s a good one because it’s true, it less to do with the current central contracts situation, and more to do with the eligibility rule around Klein/Synman and Frisch and also the other Munster players that have retired or will be. Munster are going to be a very weak team next year, no where near contenders for any competition. I think the fear/reality is that this is going to be a permanent situation for a long time and that Munster will longer effectively produce players of International quality for Ireland. It isn’t an easy fix.

[@jmo8934]

@@derekdevaney2242I’m not so sure. They have signed Diarmuid Kilgallon who I think is an excellent winger and is still underrated who will do a great job for them. Edogbo injuries permitting and Ahern can now step up to the plate in the second row. They have of course Brian Gleeson and Ruadhan Quinn coming through as well and there were some other promising players even on this years U20 side like Evan O’Connell and the fullback who’s name escapes me. So there are players coming through. The thing is it’s not just that Leinster are out in front in Ireland. They are producing more young talented players than any other team in Europe. That’s why it’s doubly hard for the other provinces but it should help raise their levels too knowing what they are up against. Munster did win the URC last year. Leinster haven’t won anything in 3 years.

[@andrew097]

They are Champions how top can you be.

[@dashingeduardosuarez]

Being URC champs is like being champs of the teams who didn't make it in Europe. It's like a consolation prize, and Munster don't even deserve that much.

[@eamonlyons8069]

I agree as a Munster fan. The league should be smaller and multi tiered and fuck the playoffs. They don't happen in football and removes unnecessary games. European rugby should be more exclusive so it's more prestigious. Rugby needs alot of fixings​@@dashingeduardosuarez

[@derekdevaney2242]

Jesus the anti Munster comments on here from Leinster fans are nothing short of toxic. Jackmann, a proud Leinster man, has consistently stated that Irish Rugby would be so much stronger if you had 4 strong provinces. Munster are no longer strong, no where near it in fact, the resolution of this is what the discourse here is about, and for the good of Irish rugby and the Irish team, If it’s total representation on the Ireland team ye want, with the other provinces contributing very little international calibre players, then off ye go, yer welcome to it.

[@brianmccarthy7999]

Munster might stop cheering La Rochelle against Leinster and they might not be so toxic

[@3108dd]

As a Munster fan, I fully agree with that. Equally, Leinster fans need to stop gloating every time Munster get knocked out of Europe or URC. Cant wait to get their digs in on the match report comments every time. And Munster fans the same if Leinster lose a big game. It is toxic and needs to stop on both sides. We are all Irish rugby supporters. Not Man U v Liverpool or some other toxic nonsense.

[@grahamshaw3802]

Who are these amazing players from Munster that should have CC? Crowley just broke into team its to early

[@CPower_IRL]

There is plenty of talent in Munster thats never given a chance to brake into the Irish squad. Coomes ( for his try scoring record alone) deserves a run of games, hodnett, Shane daly, Tom ahern, Frisch deserved a cap. I wont say they deserve to cc but they deserved a chance in this 6 nations at least. The major criticism of farell in the last world cup was that he flogged the same players in every game until they just ran out of steam. He did the same in the 6 N. Could he have given guys a cap versus Italy Wales and Scotland, yes i belive he should have. As a result Munster will lose a centre with real talent. top 14 teams are forming an orderly queue to sign him but he apparantly wasnt good enough to play v Italy.

[@Tellemore]

Jackman was pretty negative on the weekend about Munster

[@dashingeduardosuarez]

'Oooh, Munster needs more support if they want to return to form'.....maybe don't send your fans to Leinster games to support the opposition, then you might sell more tickets and maybe even have more supporters from outside Munster to cheer you on. Just a thought.

[@user-yq7tt3ii6h]

'Munster need more support' - erm, no - Munster already had a stadium built for them and they get their annual special fixture against NZ/SA... Ireland need players: Munster have one of four academy systems in Ireland and they've produced a grand total of 2/3 genuine internationals in ten years. No more handouts, produce the talent or sit down and accept you're not good enough to compete at the top level.

[@tonymurphy9795]

What? Most of Munster's team are from Munster.

[@cianhalley9266]

We're producing better talent than leinster

[@DM-rp9ik]

Why in gods name is Jackman talking about Munster as a European winning squad? Not even the most die hard Munster fans think they are at the Toulouse La rochelles and Leinster level. It's a ridiculous expectation to have for that set of players. Munster are good much better than most but come on.

[@Camcolito]

He didn't say that.

[@cianhalley9266]

Leinster and la rochelle level yes, toulouse no

[@coldphinger]

Produce the players, instead of just fecking whingeing constantly asking for more money others deserve. They pissed up the legacy of the HEC wins on a white elephant stadium that's tied up millions in capital. And even being first in the queue for ground/facilities investment (Musgrave, Limerick Performance Centre) they've gone backwards in terms of player development for over a decade and only recently produced a couple of forwards worth a damn. Name me three proper test standard backs (Casey is not one) they've produced in last ten years....?

[@cianhalley9266]

Okay nash daly crowley

[@coldphinger]

@cianhalley9266 no seriously, three...😂

[@sh00termacg]

Murray's turn to be good cop and Birch's turn to be bad cop.. How are Harry Byrne, Sam Prendergast, Scott Penny etc getting call ups? The only reason Crowley got a call is because Frawley couldn't stay uninjured for the Emerging Frawley tour of the backwoods of South Africa. If you do not think there's a Leinster selection bias, then you're kidding no one. This type of favoritism wouldn't have been allowed in the old days. If there's a 50:50 call to make, you'd give it to the under represented province. Andy Farrell is getting away with short term "cohesion" gains and will leave Irish rugby burning in his wake. I know a lot of people who don't give a toss about the Irish game anymore because the system is rigged. Leinster have won zero, zilch, nada in 3 years, Ross Byrne showed that when the pressure comes on he doesn't want to take the responsibility. Their heavily supplemented (with internationals) team lost a semi final last season. Ireland lost to a weak England team in this year's 6N. Perhaps it's time to pick better players over cohesion RFC before the next world cup.

[@aidanbrophy86]

What an excellent recipe for no success.

[@scran7346]

I hate to be a fence sitter but there's probably a healthy middle ground somewhere in the middle between the current way things are done and your preferred way. Also, I'd disagree that we lost to a weak England team that day, they were definitely dire at the beginning of the 6N but they had fully put their gameplan together 8 weeks later when they played Ireland. Borthwick is a great tactician and England is full of world class players.

[@sh00termacg]

@@scran7346 "Borthwick is a great tactician" funniest thing anyone has ever said....ever!

[@aidanbrophy86]

Lad on the Internet knows better than a Premiership winning cosch who lost a WC semi-final to a brutal scrum penalty shocker.

[@ryanlawlor7862]

System is rigged?? Youre just just another sore munster fan wallowing in victimhood

[@TropicalJungleIreland]

Currently there's not one Munster player that would be picked on the Leinster best 15. Crowley is lucky to have got into Irish squad due to frawley getting injured. ATM Munster just aren't good enough.

[@bejaysus7388]

You think Frawley is better than Crowley 😂😂😂😂. Crowley is miles ahead of any other outhalf in Ireland. Leinster are in trouble at outhalf, Frawley is seriously overrated, the Byrnes' 😂 & Prendagast is years away from being ready to even challenge for the Irish 10 jersey. He has great potential but potential doesn't mean he will be good enough.

[@cianhalley9266]

Well they're the current urc champions so by that logic leinster aren't even at the races

[@andrewmartinfarrell8167]

Embarr from Jackman. Endless pandering to Munster fans. Scared to say anything that will annoy them.