Music Chat: Hindemith Metamorphoses Weber

Hindemith's Symphonic Metamorphosis of Themes by Carl Maria von Weber is one of his most popular orchestra works (despite the unglamorous title), but did you ever wonder where in the world of Weber those themes came from? Well, I did, and I've got the answer for you. It's fascinating.

[@dennischiapello7243]

This was truly educational! I've heard the Metamorphoses a lot, mainly because it's coupled with every Hindemith orchestral work I'd rather listen to! But this made me appreciate it more. I certainly was surprised by how minimal were Hindemith's changes to the melodies. Also, It makes it clear why he didn't use the word Variations.

[@timbakerbartholomew]

Thank you so much for this Thank you for this enthusiastic elucidation. I too have always wondered where those themes came from. I know all the operas and concertos and yet was bewildered. So, thank you!

[@alanglick4287]

Stuart Malina did a performance of the Hindemith with The Florida Orchestra comparing the original Weber pieces to Hindemith’s Metamorphoses just as you did with this video. Eye opening, led me to an even greater appreciation of what Hindemith accomplished. Regarding the use of the word “trio” to designate contrasting sections in dance type movements, it was Lully who started the practice of actually using three instruments for this section. Other composers copied this procedure, and the signifier “trio” was retained for this section even after the tradition of using three instruments/voices was dropped.

[@BillConk]

On a side note, I live in Sydney, and had to Google the Queensland Phil. The NZSO recording of the first movement is on the slow side of other performances and recordings I’ve heard. It gives a certain “dignity” to the sense of humour behind the music.

[@trueflint]

As a bassoonist, I just wanted to point out that von Weber's Ungarische Fantasie is a standard part of the bassoon repertoire.

[@ammcello]

Where was this video when I had to do a pre-concert lecture on SMoToCMvW? In my prep I had to search and search but I found those little piano gems. What Hindemith does with these pieces is such a marvel... love him! Props to you for putting this out there - it’s amazing how few people actually do this kind of work. And Weber is so underrated, too! (And Hummel!)

[@davidgoodman6538]

Thanks, Dave. I love the Hindemith, and have always wondered about the Weber originals. I, too, regret that we no longer hear much Weber. David

[@coloraturaElise]

Weber's marvelous clarinet works, which he wrote for the virtuoso Heinrich Baermann, are alive and well, and amongst the most-played pieces in any clarinetist's repertoire. His Concertino Op. 26 is probably played more than any other work, including the Mozart Concerto. btw, I love Hindemith, have played a band transcription of the Symphonic Metamorphosis, and chose the march as my piece in an air baton conducting competition!! :-) Great, great music, and one of my favorites of the 20th century!

[@colinwrubleski7627]

The trio to the finale of the Hindemith version invariably inspires thoughts of a pirate ship boldly and high-spiritedly slashing through a glorious stream of water on a bright summer's day. In rehearsal, whenever we NYOC (National Youth Orchestra of Canada) 1990 violinists would rest during the heroic horn fanfares, we would proudly incline our scrolls forward like the bow of said pirate ship, and more daringly, in a performance of the Hindemith at Roy Thomson Hall (Toronto) in August of that year, concluding the first half of the last concert ending our summer concert tour (with the "tiny" little Bruckner 6 in the 2nd half...), my buddy, the principal second violinist, would bob his fiddle up and down as if riding the waves. Hard to restrain from a Cheshire cat grin in the moment...

[@edwinbaumgartner5045]

It is a fantastic piece, no question, and yet - my problem with Hindemith is nearly always the scoring. I do not understand why this guy in his youth did "Sancta Susanna", "Mörder", the "Three Songs" with colours of Schreker's richness, and then he starts a black-and-white-program. Even the Metamorphoses, which are brilliant and full of energy, have no real colour. That's why I prefer non-german neoclassics like Poulenc or Prokofiev or Malipiero - and, of course, Stravinski. (I do not mention my beloved Bartók, because he is, in my opinion, rather folklorist than neoclassic - and for me the greatest composer of his generation.) Nevertheless: Your demonstration, what Hindemith did with Weber is great. I love this stuff. Thank you so much, once again!

[@dennischiapello7243]

I'm not familiar with the pieces you mention as having the color you find lacking elsewhere. I have always loved Hindemith's orchestral sound, especially in his treatment of the brass. But certainly, I suppose, there is more blending of sonorities, compared to Poulenc or Stravinsky. However, I'd hold up Nobilissima Visione for its orchestral color.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think Hindemith's orchestration is usually very effective and distinctive.

[@stevenmsinger]

That was just wonderful. Thank you so much, David. The Symphonic Metamorphosis is one of my favorite Hindemith pieces. I truly don't understand why it isn't programmed more. It's funny but I don't think anyone really knew where those Weber tunes were from before your video. How delightful to hear them! Weber - like Mendelssohn - is under appreciated these days. These videos are just a joy.

[@1MRBASSMAN]

This piece along with Mathis der Maler both used to be performed more. That was before music of somewhat 'minimalist' value began to underservedly hog the concert stage spotlight.

[@presbyterosBassI]

Wonderful piece! I got to speak with Robert Shaw when he did it with the Philadelphia Orchestra. He had done it with the NBC Symphony (or as he said, "Toscanini let me..."

[@pastrychef1985]

I got this Decker/Noi Zoiland Symphonic Metamorphosis for a grand 50p about 3 months ago in a charity shop along with some high end trousers for £5 in total. How's about that? I love it through and through. Hindemith does not get the love he deserves. Yes, the melodic banging and booming is a thing in the 2nd mvt. of the Sym.Met. Seriously, good thing I had those trousers. This recording is 10/10. Thank you Dave for this!

[@rogerkranz5389]

Thank you, Dave! The Metamorphoses was (were?) my introduction to Hindemith when I was in high school. So after all these years it was a delight to hear the Weber originals. I especially enjoyed your focus on the beautiful B section of the 3rd movement. Wonderful!

[@paullaw1438]

Brilliant! Your enthusiasm is wonderfully contagious😅

[@onnoalink6694]

This was a very interesting chat again, thank you. I already found the Von Weber CD on Spotify (here in the NL). Perhaps a joyful continuation on this subject: William Walton's Variations on a Theme by Hindemith. He sort of treats the Hindemith theme the same way as Hindemith handles the Von Weber tunes.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

The Walton is a wonderful work--really his late masterpiece.

[@onnoalink6694]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I totally agree. It should be recognised as such!

[@BeatrixGroves]

Hindemith views Weber in much the same way as a cubist painter sees a portrait: the subject may be recognisable, but it's full of abrupt angles, clashing colours, and planes of reference that are uncertain. That's what makes the Symph Met so exciting. The familiar in an unfamiliar setting.

[@paul-francislaw9774]

Your discussion has given me a quite new connection to this piece. It is essentially about metamorphosis - an experiment in musical transformation. And all done for the sheer joy of it (hence its jocularity). But you can't admire metamorphosis if you don't know what is being metamorphosed. 😆 It brings to mind Nietzsche's remark that 'the passions enjoy themselves in music' (In der Musik amuesieren sich die Leidenschaften). Thank you. More, please! 🤣

[@im2801ok]

Thank you, David, for filling the gaps in my knowledge of the original inspiration of Hindemith's delightful work! Indeed, Weber wrote a great deal of good music that nobody seems to listen to. So just to give one example, among his chamber works (of which the great clarinet quintet is perhaps the most publicly notable) there's also the meltingly beautiful Trio in G minor for Flute, Cello and Piano, Op. 63. Highly recommended!

[@ffmandal]

Wonderful presentation! Thank you!

[@jppitman1]

Another SMTCMW fan here. Yes, thank you so much for delving into the piece`s background. I lived with this piece on an airplane in 1972 flying over to Europe for a band tour. There were about 10 selections on the classical channel and they repeated over and over. i loved it; still do.

[@JacobSmullyan]

This is just delightful - what a service to put this all together, thank you! Some day, when there are concerts again, these pieces have got to be all programmed together.

[@1MRBASSMAN]

Stuart Malina and The Florida Orchestra did just that some time ago. A real ear opener.

[@dmntuba]

BRAVO!...Well Done👍 Thank you for suck a well done, educational exploration into a Fantastic piece of music.

[@thomasvendetti3742]

I am absolutely delighted by your fascinating talk. I’m a Hindemith devotee, and you have shone light on a piece I have loved for...I don’t want to say how many decades. Request: It may be interesting for you to have a program where you choose the best performances by great composers conducting or playing their own works. Hindemith, Stravinsky, and Copland made piles of recordings. I’m sure you would know of many others to recommend or avoid. Thanks again!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for watching. It's always interesting to hear composers conduct their own music, if only to hear how badly most of them do it. The only really great one I know of that recorded extensively was Leonard Bernstein. Of course I have many recordings that fit in this category, but to be honest the combination of bad sound and bad conducting makes most of them very uninteresting to me, despite the occasional tidbit of useful interpretive information that one can sometimes glean from them.

[@edwardcasper5231]

It was great to hear the original Weber. I played the Hindemith in college. Fun.

[@JoeDeRosa]

David, upon hearing the actual works by Weber that Hindemith used in his Symphonic Metamorphisis, the first thought that crossed my admittedly strange mind was that Hindemith's work could have served as the inspiration for Phil Spector's "Wall of sound" concept. It fell a tad short of being an epiphany-level experience (an accolade that I reserve for hearing The Grateful Dead's "Casey Jones" performed on period instruments 😏

[@davidmayhew8083]

Leonard Bernstein opened this work up for me with his very good recording with NYP. The only Hindemith piece I've ever cared about. Mostly because of those wonderful tunes. I believe Mahler was a fan of Weber and orchestrated Der Drei Pintos, a comic opera by Weber. I'd love to hear that!

[@michaelphilo3525]

Leonard Bernstein also has a wonderful recording with the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra. I especially like it because he doesn't smother the horns in part of the March like other recordings do. I will have to check out the NYP recording; I expect that it is really good.

[@c.iuliusbalbus4399]

Fascinating indeed. There are moments in the final march (at least in Hindemith's orchestration) that make me think of Mahler's Sixth... And incidentally, I hope I'm not the only one who'd like a discussion on Braunfels's "Phantastische Erscheinungen..." (another title as long as a Latin or a Portuguese name), a work which departs from the original much longer than Hindemith "Symphonische Metamorphosen..." Braunfels is, in my opinion, a sadly (almost) forgotten composer. Take care!

[@hwelf11]

The only thing by Braunfels I've heard so far is his opera Die Vogel, a beautiful work that attracted some attention when London records recorded it as part of their late lamented Entartete Kunst series, and somewhat later, James Conlon mounted a staged production at the LA Opera. I agree that he's another composer worth rehabilitating.

[@anthonycook6213]

Thank you! I just became aquatinted with the Symphonic Metamorphoses last week when I bought and made a digital file of the Ormandy LP. I wondered what the actual connection to Weber is, and I don't think you could have done a better job explaining it.

[@paulbrower]

These works should be played often on pops concerts. They are colorful and accessible. So what if they are by Hindemith?

[@allthisuselessbeauty-kr7]

Wonderful work indeed - apparently originally Hindemith wrote it as ballet for a dance company run by Léonide Massine - but they had an artistic falling out, and then he reworked it. He allegedly choose the piano pieces purely because they could all be found in one volume of the Weber piano duets that he owned. Perhaps Stravinsky's The Fairy's Kiss next? Cheers

[@smashissocool65]

Weber was one of the most important german composers of his day. He needs to be better known

[@williamrobinson6059]

Don’t forget the Weber Romance for Trombone!

[@jppitman1]

Really?? I had no idea. Talk about an instrument you NEVER hear on classical stations.

[@williamrobinson6059]

@@jppitman1 Christopher Rouse composed a Pulitzer Prize-winning concerto for the instrument. Not many notable composers wrote anything for solo trombone. Saint-Saens, Hindemith, Milhaud.

[@jppitman1]

@@williamrobinson6059 Christian Lindberg commissioned quite a lot, but he had to for the reason you stated. Mendelssohn was going to but had no time to do it, so he essentially had someone else compose one for the excellent trombonist he knew. The Hindemith Sonata is a bear...but it got me into an all-state orchestra! I heard the Rouse done by Craig Mulcahy of the National Symphony Orchestra a few years ago. It was quite a ride....especially with the three Mahler hammer blows! It was so loud at one point that my wife put her hands over her ears. And then there`s "Troorkh" by Xenakis...............

[@ThreadBomb]

I usually find Weber to be a bore, but these piano pieces sound very good -- quite Schubertian!

[@bartolo498]

Weber was very good in setting mood, dramatic gestures, catchy tunes and instrumentation, but not very good at development. So with a few exceptions many of his instrumental works lose steam after some time and outstay their welcome. All of his piano sonatas are a bit too long, the concertos probably too, but nevertheless most contain very good music and overall I'd say that Weber is underappreciated today.

[@hannureittu4310]

Got Hommage a Weber from Spotify....