Music Chat: The World's Dumbest Opera

Opera is famous for the silliness of its plot lines, but the librettist of Meyerbeer's Dinorah, notorious as "a dead opera about a live goat," surely pulled out all of the stops in this regard. Brace yourself for this one: all I'm going to do is go straight through the admirably detailed plot synopsis accompanying the Opera Rara recording of the complete work. You're not going to believe it.

[@robinhahnsopran]

I love absolutely everything about this video. I snorted my tea out my nose at the synopsis!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It does have that effect on people. Thanks! ...and sorry if it made a mess...

[@valerietaylor9615]

I almost choked on mine.

[@walkure48]

I hope to God that there isn't a quiz at the end of this video!

[@detectivehome3318]

When ever I see 'worst', 'bad'or 'dumb', my hands just click that video without my mind knowing

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I know. I isn't that a fascinating comment on human psychology?

[@detectivehome3318]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I guess it's human psychology.... but your criticizing videos are complete worth it

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@detectivehome3318 Thank you!

[@valerietaylor9615]

I’m the same way. Can’t resist a really bad movie, like “Plan 9 From Outer Space”, directed by Edward D. Wood, Jr. It’s widely considered the worst movie ever made, and richly deserves all of the abuse that’s been heaped on it, and more. 😊

[@arvidlystnur4827]

This opera sounds like a sophisticated version of CINNAMON BEAR, or the meanderings of a radio production in the seventies called THE FOURTH TOWER OF INVERNESS.

[@chadweirick67]

This is a great plot to listen to on my morning drive this morning loved it..another crazy Opera I always love to remind people of is the mute girl of portici.. where the titular character is a mute in an opera :-)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, that one's pretty special too. In fact, the title is so preposterous that even in its day it was often called "Masaniello" instead. The end is wonderful: Mt. Vesuvius erupts and everyone dies. Great tam-tam part. The story, though, once you get into it, is actually quite tragic--coherent and gripping, whereas Dinorah gets dumber by the minute.

[@hhk01]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I gets better (?). Years ago we did a concert version (no sets, costume, etc.) of that. No actor/dancer to play the title role. Lots of soloists questioning, conversing with, remarking on the thin air...

[@ftumschk]

Goaterdämmerung

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Muppet Show!

[@valerietaylor9615]

@ftumschk. Ach, mein Gott!

[@andreysimeonov8356]

Can you explain why? If you express such an opinion because of some inconsistencies in the plot, you should be able to point them out. For me, there is only one plot inconsistency in Gotterdammerung that Wagner did not handle vey well. But it is relatively insignificant to spoil the entire story.

[@ftumschk]

@@andreysimeonov8356 It was a joke. This video is about an opera featuring goats, and "Goaterdämmerung" [ *_goat_* -erdämmerung] seemed to be a good comedy name for such an opera. I wasn't referring to Wagner's _Götterdämmerung,_ or suggesting that it was the world's dumbest opera, which it most definitely isn't!

[@tuomaspalojarvi3300]

Loved it! As for the goat's fate - rumor has it, thanks to unprecedented demand to resolve this cliffhanger (sorry) Meyerbeer is decomposing a sequel to "Dinorah" as we speak...

[@valerietaylor9615]

Decomposing? He sounds pretty active, for a dead guy. 😊

[@johnanderton4200]

Michael Scott, of course, works at Dunder-Mifflin Paper Company

[@charlesedwards5302]

David, I love this video. I listened to the Judd CDs as a result - from a safe distance. I noted another problem which the goat caused in Monte Carlo in 1882, when the animal employed 'ran true to type and quite failed to learn its role: at the end of Act Two it butted the prima donna into the ravine, then jumped in afterwards with what effect on the dramatic illusion need not be described' (from Michael Scott's notes in the Opera Rara CD). I actually really enjoyed the opera having not listened to it for decades - it has languished on my shelves for a LONG time.

[@sjc1204]

Oh my word, absolutely hilarious. If there were a comedy club for ballet, orchestral and opera fans/patrons, you would be headlining.

[@folanpaul]

Thanks for this. Ridiculous plot, fortunately you don't have to understand a word of it, to enjoy the music. Meyerbeer was fantastic. He wrote works outside of opera too: I particularly love his Clarinet Quintet.

[@valerietaylor9615]

I don’t know Meyerbeer’s music at all well, except for the Coronation March from “ Le Prophete.” That one’s pretty neat.

[@AlexMadorsky]

Dinorah, Dinorah, I’d like to ignore her! I’m pretty sure singing an aria to a goat is still illegal in 18 states. What a wild ride. The chances of my listening to this opera are approximately the same as my chances of becoming Pope, but I sure enjoyed this video!

[@alejandrosotomartin9720]

As an opera, Dinorah is the GOAT 🐐

[@marknewkirk4322]

Well, I thought Die Zauberfloete is stupid, but this takes the cake.

[@TenorCantusFirmus]

Talking animals, spells, magic, the happy ending with a Wedding: this sounds like Meyerbeer wanted to shoot a Disney movie, but had to turn it into an Opera instead since Cinema had not yet been invented...

[@valerietaylor9615]

As the Jewish people would say, “Oy!”

[@2906nico]

So agree about Victorian oratorios contra French Grand Opera. Mayerbeer is almost universally sneered at, but there is good stuff in some of his operas. Love the review and the succinct description.

[@valerietaylor9615]

I hardly know any of Meyerbeer’s music, except for the Coronation March from “Le Prophete”, which is pretty neat. Perhaps we’re due for a Meyerbeer revival.

[@williamhicks2299]

I recently saw a production of this opera and simply could not believe the silliness of the plot! There's some good music, but I mean....REALLY!

[@hwelf11]

Yes. It's the best and most succinct summing-up of the 'Ring" I know of.

[@estel5335]

And I thought Weed back then was unheard of...

[@hwelf11]

Anna Russell, who could always be counted upon to cut straight to the chase, did make an observation which I think is germane to "Dinora": As the video points out, the "Shadow Song", (" ombre legere") is the most famous highlight of the opera. It used to be extremely popular as a coloratura soprano showpiece par excellence, but it is heard far less frequently nowadays -- perhaps, to because, as Ms. Russell observed: "The only people who appreciate coloraturas are other coloraturas."

[@valerietaylor9615]

I appreciate coloratura, and I am a non-coloratura contralto.

[@valerietaylor9615]

Have you ever heard Russell’s spoof of Wagner’s “ Ring”? It’s hilarious, and she sang all the parts, from soprano to bass. 😆

[@gregstanton7321]

I love this opera. About the plot, I will say this. You know what you are in for from the onslaught. It's absurd from the very beginning, so it's easy to give in and just let it do its thing and enjoy the music. Unlike, say, Rigoletto or La Traviata, both of which begin very seriously and then are ultimately sabotaged by a soprano on the verge of death who suddenly leaps up to deliver a showstopper before expiring. It's easier to forgive Dinorah, who has been honest with us from the start.

[@valerietaylor9615]

The only other opera I know of that has a part for a goat, is Gershwin’s “ Porgy and Bess.” I love “ Porgy”; I think it’s the greatest opera yet written by an American composer. Oscar Levant called it “ The greatest Jewish opera ever written,” but he was probably jealous because he hadn’t written it himself. 😊

[@gregorystanton6150]

@@valerietaylor9615 Well, Esmeralda has a goat in Bertin’s La Esmeralda. It’s more window dressing and doesn’t really play a part in the plot though.

[@frgraybean]

Meyerbeer has a goat. Wagner has a horse. Strauss has an all knowing clam.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, but that clam can SING!

[@valerietaylor9615]

Which opera was that from?

[@barrymoore4470]

@@valerietaylor9615 'Die ägyptische Helena' ('The Egyptian Helen'), which premiered in 1928. The role is scored for a contralto.

[@valerietaylor9615]

@barrymoore4470 Thanks for the info. I’m not familiar with that opera ( though I love Salome - it makes me feel warm and snuggly.)😊

[@barrymoore4470]

@@valerietaylor9615 'Salome' makes for powerhouse drama, but I tend to think Strauss' operatic masterpiece is likely 'Elektra'.

[@lawrencerinkel3243]

High on a hill was a lonely goatherd Lay ee odl lay ee odl lay hee hoo Loud was the voice of the lonely goatherd Lay ee odl lay ee odl-oo

[@valerietaylor9615]

From “The Sound of Mucous.”

[@wabearchemedes]

Bella may actually be an hallucination by Dinorah which started when she was traumatized by her experience during the start of act 1. But I don't like how Hoel gaslights Dinorah near the end of the opera. But it may be safe to say that this was the first psychological opera?

[@valerietaylor9615]

I think it’s just psycho.

[@josecarmona9168]

Speaking of Wagner, is there anything dumber than Alberich's defeat by becoming a toad. I mean, come on, Alberich, really??? A toad???

[@ftumschk]

Krötedämmerung ;)

[@josecarmona9168]

@@ftumschk , 😂😂

[@valerietaylor9615]

That was after Alberich turned himself into a giant serpent. Loge says “ I’ll bet you couldn’t turn yourself into something small” (or words to that effect, and in German.) that was the same technique Puss-In-Boots used with the ogre. He turned himself into a mouse, and the cat ate him. Similarly, Loge tricked Alberich into turning himself into a toad, so that he and Wotan could easily capture him/it.

[@josecarmona9168]

@@valerietaylor9615 , Yes, I know, and it fits with the folk tales, but in the context of those political events that make up the opera, it seemed quite ridiculous to me.

[@randywolfgang4943]

Omg that is too funny. Isn’t there another opera around the same time where at the end the heroine jumps like three miles into Mt Vesuvius???

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

La Muette de Portici, only that's not exactly how she dies. She jumps, Vesuvius erupts, but not in exactly the same spot.

[@neilcameronable]

Would make a great soap opera.With about as much sense.Really enjoyed your reading Mt Hurwitz.Moral of the story dont go looking for things on your wedding day and keep the guests waiting while you obsess on a pet.

[@valerietaylor9615]

Even if it were a cat? 🐈‍⬛

[@NealSchultz]

I would throw Weber's Euryanthe in there for a consolation prize....as craziest "libretto"

[@valerietaylor9615]

“Euryanthe” has a terrific overture, though. And it inspired Wagner - just compare it with the Act III Prelude from “Lohengrin.”

[@bbailey7818]

LMAO. I can't resist adding that Toscanini did a magnificent performance of the overture, better than Judd's less rhythmically alert one, and tricked NBC into shelling out extra money for the Metropolitan Opera Chorus. The performance is on you tube

[@RhapsodyOfJoy]

7:40 And Handel had a "vegetable" (I know, I know, it was a tree) 😂, doesn't make him any less great than Herr Wagner!

[@valerietaylor9615]

I love that aria -“Ombra mai fu”, from “Xerxes.”

[@FranzKaernBiederstedt]

What about your sidekick against Victorian English Oratorios? You mean something like Elgar`s Dream of Geronthius? Well, I love that one a lot. It contains really great music. And by the way: Mendelssohn's Elijah can count as as Victorian oratorio, having been commissioned by the Birmingham Festival in 1846.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You mean wisecrack, but OK you found two decent English oratorios. How about the other 12,384,977 of them? Have you heard those?

[@gustinian]

Dinorah was an inspiration for the hit computer game 'Goat Simulator' (not to be confused with 'Goat Stimulator' which, I believe, is nowadays banned by the church).

[@valerietaylor9615]

As it should be.

[@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh]

"The other wizard, Dominant." Another Hurwitzian brilliancy...^^ (Aside: Many violinists and violists know that the Thomastik GmBH "Dominant" brand of strings are generally quite decent. The cheap Chinese knock-off version "Subdominants", by contrast, readily available in Bangkok, Thailand, are completely worthless--- worse than useless, in fact. "Ground glass" would be sylvan dulcet strains in comparison...)

[@anariondanumenor9675]

I was sure that it would be Magic flute xd

[@joemahlerng]

That's why Beethoven wrote only one opera, Brahms and Mahler never did.

[@barrymoore4470]

Beethoven only ever completed one opera, with two major revisions. He commenced an earlier one, to be called 'Vestas Feuer', but never advanced beyond some preliminary sketches. Mahler did actually complete a long unfinished opera by Carl Maria von Weber, 'Die drei Pintos', though otherwise never did compose operatically.

[@valerietaylor9615]

Chopin never wrote an opera, either, even though his sister, Ludwika, urged him to write the first Polish opera. 🇵🇱

[@barrymoore4470]

@@valerietaylor9615 The great Polish poet Adam Mickiewicz also hoped that Chopin would write the great Polish opera, but Chopin never seemed to be at home in the larger forms. Ironically, much of his musical style was inspired by Italian bel canto opera. Perhaps the greatest composer who never attempted opera was Johann Sebastian Bach, who apparently disapproved of the genre morally.

[@lawrencerinkel3243]

Ever see Edward Albee's play "The Goat"?

[@edwinbaumgartner5045]

Speaking of the dumbest opera - do you know Pfitzner's "Rose vom Liebesgarten"? I would prefer "Dinorah" for intellectual reasons (and for musical, too, of course). And I'm not sure, if the "Rose" could be redeemed by great singing.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You've got a point there...

[@valerietaylor9615]

I love Viennese operetta, no matter how dopey the plots.

[@Peter-wd1yo]

By contrast, Treemonisha has a simple and sensible plot

[@williamfredscott6904]

Isn’t it true that Dinorah is the only opera whose overture actually includes an offstage chorus?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, it's not.

[@VoceCorale]

I demand a video about peasants in opera.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You're not the only one. Actually, hang in there, I've got an interesting angle on that.

[@VoceCorale]

I'll be waiting then. Thanks!

[@mikaelbeskow9221]

The Troubador by Verdi also has a ridiculous plot.

[@valerietaylor9615]

I would love to see a video about happy, singing, dancing peasants in opera. As long as they’re not revolting.