Music Chat: What's The Deal With Andris Nelsons?

He's done bad Beethoven, boring Bruckner, and after an excellent first few releases, sorry Shostakovich (see my review of Symphonies 1, 14 and 15 at ClassicsToday,com). So that leads me to ask: What does Andris Nelsons, Music Director of the Boston Symphony, do really well? Even more pertinently: What does he believe he does better than anyone else? I have no answer and I'd be delighted to hear his--but either way, we're fully justified in asking the questions, aren't we?

[@phidelt2]

I agree with your overall assessment David. I have all of the Nelsons releases including this most recent outing. This latest installment is the least compelling. I happen to enjoy the 1st and 15th outings more however. That said, there may be something (not everything) to be said about the engineering involved. *NOTE - for all readers - all of these recordings were done and will be done LIVE. None are or will be studio recordings. I was present for the concerts involving the 4th, 11th, and 15th. I was also present for 2nd and 12th symphonies as well. BTW - I anticipate the next installment will be the 2nd and 12th coupled with the 1st piano concerto (which was recorded fall 2019) and the 1st violin concerto (the only Shostakovich piece on the BSO's calendar for the 2021-2022 season). Then, i anticipate they should round out the cycle with an installment of the 3rd and 13th symphonies, which have yet to be performed and recorded and not on the dockets yet. I can honestly say that hearing those 5 symphonies live, that they were all absolutely amazing. I was never bored and especially in the most dramatic passages of 4 and 11, was left pressed up against the back of my seat by the sheer force of the BSO players. They may not have a tradition of Shostakovich, but I think they do a bang up job. Certainly Nelsons has positively contributed to that in some way. Something must be happening in the engineering to soften the impact of these symphonies, because my live account left me breathless and shook at times. The recordings aren't doing the performances justice. But that's just me. Ultimately, it goes to show that there truly is not a cycle out there with no weak links. This is the weak link thus far.

[@aatim2308]

How to be a 'popular' conductor: play quick music slowly, slow music quickly, use some fancy gestures but not too much, create a story behind your poetic vision, throw away the technique, use a toothpick (ad libitum). Success is guaranteed.

[@detectivehome3318]

THE STORY OF VALERY GERGIEV

[@eugenetzigane]

Don't forget the hair!!

[@classicalperformances8777]

@@detectivehome3318 well, not quite...politics also come to play there

[@richardwilliams473]

Thanks, David for hitting that Gong behind you.Ive always wanted to hear what it sounds like! As for Adris ,he is a very exciting conductor to watch with his hunch over the score habit and his facial expressions.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll be sure to watch videos of him without sound!

[@jesus-of-cheeses]

Curious what you think of his Sommernachskonzert 2022 2-disc album with Vienna. I love the short pieces, and the Saint-Saëns concerto with Capuçon feels pretty alive to me, no? I’ve been getting these for a while - they’re fun!

[@torterrakart7249]

What's your recommendation for the Chamber Symphony op. 110a? For the string quartet 8 my favourite is the David Oistrakh string quartet, it has the bitterness you talk about and a very Russian lyricism in the slow movements. I have yet to find a chamber string orchestra version that matches that!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I suggest you check the reviews on ClassicsToday.com. We've done a bunch.

[@robertbubeck9194]

I have had this two-disk set for about two weeks. It is No. 14 that most disappoints me; not No. 1. I was in Symphony Hall Nov. 2019 for No. 1 and had some feel for what to expect. By the way, the sonics are better than 8, but music first. The previous pieces in Nelsons’ Shostakovich cycle are well done. HOWEVER, I believe that you have raised a larger question. Nelsons is not the only conductor with a DG contract that has been handing in uneven recorded results. Why do we keep going back to those Szell, Ormandy, and Bernstein recordings? Of course, they were very good at their craft, but permit me to offer a two-part hypothesis: (1) back in the day music directors pretty much stayed with their orchestras for most of the season and they and their charges got to know each other well (no jet setting); and (2) recordings were made via dedicated sessions (not live) and occurred after having performed the pieces during the season, thus providing opportunities for ‘do overs’.

[@paul.daniels]

I have to admit to not having heard his Shostakovich or Bruckner, but I can vouch for his Mahler 2nd with the Berliner Philharmoniker - exciting, massive, broad, but with crystalline detail. Much in the style of Chailly with the RCO, but with the Urlicht movement not drowned out. And a stunning tam tam entry in the finale! Not as tight as Gielen, but certainly as dark. In fact it’s like a hybrid of Chailly and Gielen, if you could imagine such a thing, and it works! Splendidly!

[@robertbubeck9194]

Agreed. Several very good Berliner Philharmoniker performances led by Nelsons are viewable via Digital Concert Hall.

[@danielo.masson353]

Remember to have been a bit overwhelmed by his performance of La Mer with the BPO in Baden Baden, but a little chilled by his Nocturnes (WDR), less even convinced by his Malher 6 (Boston -sounded to my ears as the story of the orchestra fair enough, wanted to hear for once Boston). A little ankward at having been appreciative of his Beethoven 5 with Vienna not on CD but on air (that was on the ORF radio Ö1 and coupled with I think the 4th which seemed less interesting in drive and colour in those 'hands'. Found the B5 looking towards Berlioz, but admittedly, that says much about my hearing and its superficiality). Me not mentioning records I do not owe any of him.

[@jac9229]

While we don’t, in my opinion, need another even very good Brahms Symphony cycle given the number of superb Brahms Symphony cycles available, didn’t Andris Nelsons release a Brahms cycle on the BSO label around 2017? Do you consider that a weaker effort than his Beethoven Symphony cycle or his Bruckner Symphony CDs?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I mentioned it in the video in passing, and Jed Distler covered it for us on ClassicsToday.com. It's OK, better for the orchestra than the conductor, but not special.

[@ewmbr1164]

Hi Dave, thank you for this video with your reflections on Andris Nelsons. Disclosure: I live in and write this from Boston, where I attend Boston Symphony concerts. Yet: while there have been some splendid performances under Andris' baton, I have also expeirenced times at which I found myself emotionally unaffected and unimpressed. What I keep asking myself is this: isn't the opera house (or pit) Andris' true "home", rather than the concert hall stage? I remember a very fine concert Rosenkavalier at Symphony Hall. I fondly remember the exquisite Walküre with the Music Center Orchestra at Tanglewood a few years ago (including the Universe giving its enthusiastic approval by means of a thunder roll just before Andris gave the downbeat to Act 3). Also, I remember a great Tristan Act 2 (much more for the orchestral playing than for the vocal contributions by Jonas Kaufmann and Camilla Tilling), again at Symphony Hall. I heard, and remember, the BSO and the Tanglewood chorus in Bach's B Minor Mass, which, to my ears, stood out because of the operatic scope of Andris' approach to the work. To me, the experience felt as one of having attended an opera performance, not so much Bach's B Minor Mass. Which brings me back to the question: isn't Andris Nelsos truly a conductor most at home in opera, rather than in symphonic music? If that is so, then Boston isn't the location conducive to such talent - Tanglewood might be. I am inclined to think he would have been the better choice to succeed James Levine at The Met - yet, for reasons I don't know, Andris has not conducted there for years, and it looks like he does not want to return there (as long as Mr. Gelb is general Director? But that is another topic). My thoughts on Andris' artistic 'Heimat' ...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you for your take on that question I originally asked!

[@johns9624]

Disappointing. Over 50 years of searching for a Shostakovich 4 that comes close to Kondrashin's, Nelson's has been the nearest. A one-hit wonder maybe. About the tam-tams and gongs. With headphones on my computer all I get when you give us a sample on any of your collection is a split second of tone overwhelmed by horrendous distortion. However, playing Tubin's 2nd this morning on my main system I was floored by by how much bass is there when Jaarvi's Swedish Radio Symphony percussionist gives his tam-tam a good whack. Never having seen the score, I'm wondering if there's timpani doubling. Hoping we get some Tubin from you soon. A very underrated composer I feel.

[@gregoryemery8605]

I haven't listen to it, but actually there is a Brahms cycle with Nelson and Boston on Spotify. It was recorded in 2017, so quite early in his tenure at the BSO.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Reviewed on ClassicsToday.com. A not terribly impressive "7."

[@nigelsimeone9966]

Very interesting to hear this as I've often wondered the same thing about Nelsons. I've not been tempted by his Bruckner or DSCH, let alone Beethoven, but some of his earlier recordings are interesting. My favourite is his BR Klassik disc of Dvorak - the New World (which is good but not great) and what I think is a wonderful performance of the Hero's Song Op. 111. Not exactly the stuff of greatness in core repertoire, but it is exceptionally persuasive and for that, at least, I'm grateful. A lot of his more recent records strike me as unnecessary (at best).

[@steveeliscu1254]

I attend many BSO concerts every year and I've been generally satisfied with Nelsons. But the one work he did during the conductor "audition" year that really sold me on him was the Tchaikovsky 5th. I'm hoping he'll do more Tchaikovsky in the future with the BSO. Maybe a cycle - including Manfred?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think I made it pretty clear that I differentiate between concerts and recordings...I'm glad that you've enjoyed his concerts, and I've no doubt he can give good ones. My question is: why do his DG recordings not reflect that?

[@lukesinclair4337]

Well, all I can vouch for Nelsons is that his Shostakovich drew me in to the great composer's works, chiefly for all the awards it got and those interesting album covers, like where he is standing on a staircase looking up. This was when I was just starting out discovery of classical music, and my idea of the best recordings were the ones with the most awards (Gramophone, BBC Magazine, etc.). I'm sure I would have discovered Shostakovich eventually, but at least Nelsons accelerated the process I suppose. His Shostakovich 6 is still one of the best I've heard!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I've said that the earlier releases were very good--see my reviews on ClassicsToday.com.

[@lukesinclair4337]

@@DavesClassicalGuide already have haha! One of the ways I found your reviews!

[@Don-md6wn]

Same here. I have been listening to classical music for over 20 years but had not been much of a fan of Shostakovich. I only had recordings of symphonies 5 and 10, but WBUR's streaming channel played the Nelsons recordings over and over and I liked them enough to start buying them (and a handful of other recordings). Had I waited until I started watching these videos I'd probably have just bought the Petrenko or Barshai cycle and been done with it.

[@lukesinclair4337]

@@Don-md6wn I think Petrenko is the way to go overall, but honestly I'm coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't like Shostakovich's orchestral music at the moment. Don't know if it's a phase, or permanent. Love his Quartets though woo!

[@Don-md6wn]

@@lukesinclair4337 I ordered a cheap used copy of Bernstein/Chicago 1 & 7 and that's probably it for me with Shostakovich. I don't feel compelled to own a complete cycle.

[@johnmontanari6857]

Ms. Opolais, who is from Latvia, is the former Mrs. Nelsons. There should be a commandment for conductors: Thou shalt not hire your wife.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Oh dear. Not another one of those...

[@barryguerrero6480]

. . . I would say, "thou shalt not marry a classical and/or opera singer".

[@rezabahani7437]

what do you think about Bernstein Beethoven cycle at Vienna philharmonic? 😶

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

See reviews at ClassicsToday.com.

[@OctavinaPlayer]

His work with CBSO is superb, though. He also has a CD of contemporary music on Naxos.

[@derekhunt8469]

David, I have seen quite a few Andris Nelsons concerts over the years, particularly with the CBSO some time ago. In my opinion he is very good live, but especially in Tchaikovsky, Richard Strauss (both included extensively in his Orfeo recordings), Shostakovich, Dvorak and Mahler. I do agree that his Bruckner performances are less convincing and that several of his recordings lack the magic or feeling that are present in his live performances. Yes, the latest Shostakovich CD release is below standard. Thanks for your informative talks!

[@Jack-dt9nu]

I've also heard some pretty good Nelsons concerts live in London. I like his Wagner, which the DG Bruckner set doesn't do justice to. He was great for Lohengrin at Covent Garden a few years ago too

[@derekhunt8469]

@@Jack-dt9nu Agreed. His Wagner is very good. I have heard several concert performances and they were all first rate. DG seem to lose the immediacy and depth in some recordings.

[@Anthonyprinciotti]

I think relatively young, successful conductors are like actors when it comes to their careers. They can remember what it was like when they couldn't get work at all, and that informs the impulse to accept whatever great offer comes up. There's a fear that when they're no longer quite as hot a "commodity," those opportunities will have vanished. They take advantage of the market when they're most wanted. It takes a particular type of artist who, when offered the chance to record a Beethoven Symphony cycle with the VPO, will say "I'd love to, but let's wait awhile until I can give a project like that the sort of time and preparation necessary to justify its existence." The acoustics in Symphony Hall, while exquisite, aren't ideal for Shostakovich. They also nurture a rounded, euphonious approach to sound production that isn'r well-suited to the music of DDS.

[@barryguerrero6480]

I agree with you. I believe the fear of being forgotten and becoming irrelevant is a driving force with these people. It's kind of understandable - especially in these times. Also, booking agents don't like to be told "no, I don't want to do that". Still, . . . .

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

Spot on, David. I’ve seen Nelsons three times in concert and each concert was very enjoyable. He is charismatic, and he takes chances in concert, which makes for exciting events. I saw Heldenleben with the Vienna Symphony, and Alpine Symphony and Mahler 3rd with Boston. I purchased a couple of the Bruckner CDs and was severely disappointed - absolutely no reason for being. I also have a couple of the Shostakovich CDs. The first couple, 5 and 10, which I found very good. I never went near the Beethoven!

[@edwinbaumgartner5045]

Your's opinion about Nelsons is mine, too. At the Salzburg Festival 2020, he conducted the Vienna Philharmonic in Mahler's 6th symphony, and it was pretty good. But this have been extraordinary circumstances: The pandemia was very fresh, and this was the only great festival which could have happen in Austria. One had the feeling, they want to set a sign, a statement for classical music. The performance was clear, emotional, with big climaxes and devastating hammerblows. I remember the intensely sung slow movement and a heavy, but moving finale. So it became a special event.On the most other occasions, I found Nelsons for the most time rather uninteresting and boring. Concerning your observation about Vienna Philharmonic and conductors - you certainly know this joke: A conductor rehearses with the Vienna Philharmonic. He stops, wants a down-bow, where until know up-bow was played. After a few seconds, he stops again because of a crescendo in the horns, then he stops and advises the flutes to do something different. This is the moment, when one of the musicians says to the conductor: "Be silent, please, or we play what you want."

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

A great story!

[@Don-md6wn]

My understanding is that the Boston Symphony engineers made the Shostakovich recordings and DG licensed and/or financed them. The series was originally going to be symphonies 5 through 10 ("In the Shadow of Stalin") plus a few pieces of other music to fill out those discs. The first disc or two was well received, so DG decided they should do a complete cycle. They should have stopped at 4 through 11, which is where they were before this release. I have all of them and found this latest release much less compelling than the others, but they are my first recordings of 1, 14 and the chamber symphony so I didn't know how much of it was the music and how much was the performances. I pushed this series too far just like DG did.

[@phidelt2]

if you can track it down - i'd recommend getting Mariss Jansons with the VPO - it has a coupling of the 5th symphony and chamber symphony. This for me the best version of the chamber symphony. As David Hurwitz would say - "its a smoker". :-)

[@johnwright7557]

I’ve stayed away from Nelsons’ Shostakovich cycle, partly because Gramophone (specifically Edward Seckerson) has praised it to the skies! Sure enough, in the latest issue he has drooled all over this new addition! I was so glad to read your review and will save some money for better CDs of music I don’t have in my collection. My current choices for these works are: 1 - Ormandy and Bernstein, 15 - Ormandy and M. Shostakovich, 14 - Rostropovich and V. Petrenko, and the Quartet No. 8 - Borodin’s Melodiya/BMG in their complete cycle. Not a fan of the orchestral arrangements by anyone.

[@lilydog1000]

The hideous covers of Nelson's DSCH put me off. Nothing irks me more than seeing a conductor in poses of seeming deep thought. Whatever happened to producing good cover art?

[@johnwright7557]

@@lilydog1000 That is so true. Hyperion is still one of the few labels with nice art work, but there aren’t many others.

[@user-go6bm9ux3c]

David, hello! Thanks for your incredible and fascination materials! Please, could you make a video telling us about Sir Georg Solti and his massive recordings? From Russia with great pleasure!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm been hoping for a new Solti box for a long time, especially of his early recordings in London and Vienna. If it comes, I will do it, but right now the earlier big boxes are out of print. Спасибо за предложение.

[@user-go6bm9ux3c]

@@DavesClassicalGuide it is very interesting also to know more about his Chicago period and later projects with Berlin Philharmonic/Vienna. Thanks!

[@jimtang7226]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Decca will issue a 36CD Solti in London boxset this fall. Looking forward to your review!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@jimtang7226 Me too.

[@stevenmsinger]

UNPOPULAR OPINION HERE: I actually LIKE the new Andris Nelsons Shostakovich Symphony 1 and 15. The rest of the new recording hit me pretty much the same way as you said, David. But I'm also not a huge fan of Nelsons other Shostakovich recordings. I found them well played but kind of cold and impersonal. Too much of a sheen. Too much polish. I found the performance of Symphony 1 to be quirky, odd, sardonic and invigorating. I don't think it was better than Ormandy's version, but it was one of the better modern ones. It didn't sound like just another recording of the first. And - like you said - the coupling of the last and first symphonies is really interesting! I admit I'm still coming to terms with this last piece but I found Nelsons version really captivating. He seemed to be highlighting the similarities between the first and last symphonies. I totally agree about the 14th and the chamber symphony though. That chamber symphony MUST sound more rough and urgent. It sounded kind of like his other Shostakovich recordings - house broken.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think that's perfectly reasonable. We heard the same things and had different reactions to them. Thems whats makes a railroad!

[@mistywalters]

Any plan to make a vid about the history of gong in classical music?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, not at this point. I'm just having a little fun with it.

[@djquinn4212]

I know others have pointed out that Ms. Opolais is the former Mrs. Nelsons. She was fantastic in the new production of Manon Lescaut at the Met 5 years ago, but that unfortunately was the last thing she did well. The Rusalka the next year you could the wobble start to set in.....she's also the one the Met did that publicity stunt where she sang Madama Butterfly on Friday night and there was a live in hd transmission the next morning and Mimi was sick....so they woke her up and she sang both roles in like less than 15 hour. And we wonder why her voice went prematurely.

[@MarauderOSU]

Yeah. I think this latest Shostakovich release was like a cold shower compared to the previous releases. It's a shame, really. Dudamel is another conductor whom I don't get the big deal about. BTW, on a BSO-related note, can you tell me if there's a really good Seiji Ozawa box set out there? I've been looking at two, the RCA recordings with the CSO, and the complete DG recordings.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I like them both. Go with whichever fits your budget and repertoire choices.

[@MarauderOSU]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks, Dave. I have two future purchase ideas now. :)

[@pprudencio1966]

His recordings remind me a lot of a younger Mariss Jansons (coincidentally they’re both Latvian!): Well-played, clear, and straightforward but lacking a bit of punch and personality, though there are a few exceptions like Nelsons’ Alpine symphony (in my opinion) and Jansons’ Tchaikovsky 4 in Oslo, which are both wonderful to listen to. Other than that, they’re good, but nothing special or too noteworthy.

[@jayrev1254]

Not just his recordings…even his mannerisms. He’s basically a doppelgänger.

[@svenandersson2210]

I haven’t heard any of his recordings but I find your opinion interesting. I have experienced him live twice. The first time was in Birmingham 2011 when he started with Strauss’ Don Juan in a glorious performance. The day before I heard the same piece in Manchester in a quite average performance. It was very interesting to compare these both way of playing this music. In Birmingham Nelsons continued with the violin concerto by Dvorak and the second symphony by Brahms. Especially the final movement was exciting. The second time I experienced Nelsons was in Munic 2018 when he conducted Dvoraks ”Rusalka” with his wife Kristine Opolais in the title role. That was a quite beautiful performance so my live experiences with Nelsons has only been good so far.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's great, but for our purposes what matters are recordings.

[@basilcasteleyn4777]

Have you heard his Strauss album with the Boston symphony?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes.

[@basilcasteleyn4777]

@@DavesClassicalGuidewhat did you think of it considering he has also Yo-yo ma and Yuja Wang on it?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll probably get to a review at some point. The soloists are irrelevant.

[@daviddemers9093]

I love Andris Nelsons! Having said that, and never having unfortunately met him in person, I feel sad for him; his initial concerts and recordings in Boston were superb and exciting and we patrons were so thrilled and proud to have him lead our great orchestra. Since his beautiful wife Kristine Opolais left him a few years ago, things have changed; his appearances with her as vocal soloist seemed sad to me. Also, as of late, his weight has ballooned dangerously. Also, the fact that he has taken on so much work internationally has not been the best decision to my mind. After his very successful years at Birmingham it was decided by the BSO that we had to have him, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to have worked out as expected. Again, I love Andris and hope he can get his act together.

[@ogorangeduck]

Per the weight comment, part of that is probably having been cooped up due to the pandemic for so long.

[@barryguerrero6480]

Thank for you for that insider information. All of that rings true with me. I believe that Dudamel has been going through a similar type of slump.

[@user-lr6cd4nx8j]

For me -every release in this cycle seemed to be played very well but totally lacked personality. I will not return or these recordings - when we have Barshai, Petrenko and (in some of the symphonies ) -Haitink I loved his live Lohengrin in Bayreuth which I attended.

[@andrasvrolok9848]

Love the big Wind (Feng) gong-I have a 22 inch one that I purchased in one of the Manhattan music shops decades ago-long before the Internet and the current plethora of online gong/tam-tam merchants. I agree that symphony orchestras should use them, as their quick splash carries well and suits the needs of many scores. The one you have would be splendid for that devastating stroke in the Tchaikovsky 6th finale, which is far too often practically absent. I expect the composer wanted something that definitely made a statement-while marked piano, it is tied to sound for a little over 4 measures at an andante tempo with a poco rallentando during its sounding. Wyn Morris' recording of Mahler's Der Tamboursg'sell, sung by Geraint Evans with the London Philharmonic, seems to use a moderately sized Feng to make a very striking effect during the final "Gute nacht" passage. Harold Farberman's Mahler 5th with the London Symphony uses a rather splashy tam-tam which is quite audible in the first movement funeral tread passages-possibly also more what Mahler might have expected than the dull thud we usually get. You didn't have the Paiste Brilliant Symphonic up for long-those sound much richer than their typical Symphonic gongs. I have one of their new bronze line arriving this week-the Number 9, which is the splashiest of these recently released instruments. Such a pleasure to know you are a percussionist with a zeal for tam-tams-and, yes, they do make most anything better!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you, brother!

[@andrasvrolok9848]

​@@DavesClassicalGuide My pleasure! I quite enjoy your written and video reviews, and I also enjoyed discovering that we were at many of the same concerts in Manhattan. I lived in Hell's Kitchen for 35 years and attended performances just about every week.

[@monsterlove2323]

Do composers ever specifically mark their scores about which tam-tam to use? Or is it left up to the discretion of performers/conductors?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sometimes they do, but mostly not. I've never seen a composer specify a manufacturer--size yes, but not much more.

[@markfarrington5183]

Tinnitus Classics might put out a box of Slovanska Wobbleskaya...There must be air-checks of her SCHWANENGESANG, SCHOENE MULLERIN & WINTERREISE.

[@dvdlpznyc]

were you at carnegie when aimard did the dvorak concerto? nelsons conducted with his right hand behind his back to the left side of the orchestra, that’s how ridiculously hysterical he gets while conducting, unnecessary meaningless absurd theatrics, but to audiences they see that as passion and when watching that passion it somehow helps them to feel more connected to music, as if that’s the only way music can actually be communicative? i’ve only seen him a couple times, stupid jumps during the bartok concert for orchestra, yaddayadda… but i do like his conducting on “let me tell you”

[@markgibson6654]

On another note, you seem to have soured on Bruckner lately. Perhaps conductors would record a Bruckner cycle because they love the music and it resonates with them. He and Mahler are very different composers and Bruckner certainly has a unique voice. :)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, perhaps they would, but they haven't. That is my point. They are doing it anyway, just because...

[@andrewfeinberg877]

Perhaps Nelsons would do better with lesser known composers, especially those from Estonia and Latvia (which are experiencing a renaissance currently). Also, on KZbin, you can find a live recording of Heinrich Kaminski's Dorian Music which is very exciting. Kaminski has very few representative recordings on CD; the most significant is perhaps the CPO of works for string orchestra.

[@moby628]

A 2 cents update. I heard Nelsons and the BSO last month play Beethoven 7. It was terrific. Never heard the orchestra sound better.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't put any stock in opinions about live performances (including my own). They can't be confirmed independently, and the "thrill of the moment" often obscures the fact that the performance may not have been all that great. I always enjoy hearing music live, and I've been thrilled by performances that I know I'd never want to hear again. Of course, Nelsons is more than capable to delivering a wonderful performance, but then, that's his job.

[@moby628]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Perhaps I was caught up in the moment. After all I had not been to Symphony Hall since before the pandemic! But you can hear for yourself on the BSO website which is now streaming the concert for free. While you're at it, check out the premiere of Carl Simon's Four Black American Dances. It blew the roof off of Symphony Hall! (There I go again) Cheers

[@nb2816]

Actually, I'm very fond of the earlier recordings in Nelsons' Bruckner cycle: 3, 4, and 7 are all quite good in my opinion. But I've been less impressed with his later installments: 6, 8, and 9 all miss the mark.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Oh dear. No, I'm sorry, they are uniformly dreadful.

[@bbailey7818]

I remember hearing an All Wagner concert Nelsons conducted with the BSO, a duplication of the program Koussie conducted at an early 1938 Tanglewood concert. The one, pre-shed, that was famously rained out and blew down the tent, an event which was actually to spur the building of the shed. If only that could have happened at the Nelsons concert. It was DREADFUL The most boring Wagner I have ever heard. A rattling good storm would only have ijected some (the only) life into the proceedings. P.S. The tamtam is jaw dropping.

[@patrickhows1482]

How many tam tams and gongs do you have?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

A few dozen.

[@johnkim3840]

What about his Strauss cycle on DG?^

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

What about it?

[@johnkim3840]

@@DavesClassicalGuide We're eagerly waiting for your review of the set^

[@renegadenukerider]

David, don't labels (major and minor alike) assign producers and sound engineers to oversee recordings, whether for a live or studio release? Surely someone plays the role of "editor" to ensure (I would think) that a recording is at least sonically acceptable. Or does the conductor, as interpreter of a piece, assume responsibility for all aspects of a recording, from the aesthetic to the technical? Based on how you critique recordings, it seems as if labels allow conductors to run amuck (consequences be damned).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They used to, but now, since they don't want to pay for anything, the labels just as often take recordings ready-made by whoever gets hired to do the job (often by the artists or their organizations). The conductors themselves seldom take an interest in technical aspects--some do, many do not. They leave it to their handlers and cronies.

[@renegadenukerider]

@@DavesClassicalGuide That's disappointing. Thanks for answering my question.

[@jayrev1254]

I couldn’t agree more…particularly with regard to his Bruckner and Beethoven.

[@ewilson712]

While his earlier Shostakovich releases were good, to me they sound a bit too... perfect. Very highly edited. I prefer Petrenko and Barshai in that repertoire. His Bruckner is too perfect-sounding too, not to mention boring. DG's recent releases have been too refined. Have you heard the recent Mahler 8 with Dudamel and LA? It sounds clinical and doctored like a Boulez recording, though it is very well performed and sung. Awesome wind gong!

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

I have his Brahms cycle and Sibelius 2 on the BSO label. they are not bad,

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You could say that about most of the recordings of that music by anyone. That's not good enough for me. I did not start this channel and spend the last 35 years of my life encouraging people to listen to recordings that are not bad.

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

@@DavesClassicalGuide In all fairness, they are on their own label, probably intended for local consumption, and fans. I enjoyed listening to them but I think you are right, as an international release it’s not up to snuff

[@jonathangoodman2636]

The question you pose is unfair, I think. Nearly all Nelsons' Shost/Boston recordings are live. So this new one was a let down, just like going to five concerts in a row will yield let downs and triumphs. Let's keep this baby in the bathwater; he has given us at least two great discs in the cycle, and has at least one to go.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I said that. Who cares if they are live? No excuses.

[@flowsouth8496]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I completely agree. Why are they making live recordings in the first place? Why has this become the norm for most recordings these days?

[@paulybarr]

It is massively cheaper to record a live concert than to book a recording session.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@paulybarr That is not always true. In the US, union contracts set the pay scale, which is determined by the minutes of music used, and it's the same whether the music is recorded live or not. That is the principal expense. In any case, recordings today are subsidized by the performers. The Boston Symphony paid for those recordings, not DG.

[@tedmann1802]

Love his Shostakovich 5th (Boston) and his Bruckner 7th (Gewandhaus)!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Shostakovich, OK, but the Bruckner is pretty dreadful.

[@barryguerrero6480]

I do think the 7th is the best of his Bruckner, thus far. I thought the 6th was pretty good too, but less so the 9th. I did like his 3rd. It's not terrible, I don't think. But the 4th is a real bow-wow.

[@Ives831]

Unfortunately, I have to agree about the recent DSCH disc. I have all the other entries, and for most of those I had attended the live performances. I always felt that the recordings did not quite capture the magic of hearing the works in symphony hall, but enjoyed them nonetheless. Having not attended any live performances from the recent release, I cannot compare. I can say that I put it on twice and both times it failed to capture my attention :-/ I’ve been underwhelmed by Nelsons on the whole since he took the helm of the BSO. I saw far more gripping concerts under Levine.

[@barryguerrero6480]

Yes, but the Levine thing was doomed from the start. I predicted it, and thought he was only an interim choice at best.

[@s28101]

I think many of us have thought of this, at least I do. I have no quick or funny answers. The orchestras also have there problems. If they shall live, they need public. So great names sells the tickets. Great names are not always great musicians. Conductors are important, why do we else choose Szell, Jochum before Rattle and hums? Harnoncourt records are often different to others. Gielen mentioned a great story in the notes to his BPO Mahler 7, of a Brahms concert he made earlier with the BPO. After a battle at the probes, they agreed to play what Gielen wanted. At the concert the played their own style again, and Gielen could not do anything. Once upon a time Jochum and Kubelik reigns in Bavarian, now it is Gergiev and Rattle. If I could choose a conductor to record the LvB symphonies, I have no ideas or wishes, oh of course DH ;-)

[@judsonmusick3177]

Dave, Nelsons is music director of the Boston Symphony Orchestra and the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra - two world-class orchestras. Why in the world did he record his Beethoven cycle with the Vienna Philharmonic?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Because they think Vienna has a lock on Beethoven. It was a terrible idea.

[@67Parsifal]

I've heard Nelsons conduct Shostakovich 10 (excellent) and Bruckner 4 (ponderous), as well as Wagner's Lohengrin (where he didn't get in the way, but didn't hugely impress me, either). He's undoubtedly talented, but I suspect the reason he is where he is is down to having a very powerful agent who can open major doors for him. There are much stronger conductors of around his age group ,or slightly younger - notably Edward Gardner and Rafael Payare. The latter is a real 'rock star' conductor, and looks the part, but I heard him do Mahler 5 a few years ago and he took the roof off the venue.

[@SoiledWig]

i'm looking forward to great recordings from Nelsons in about 15-20 years from now

[@jackdolphy8965]

Love that new Tam Tam!!!

[@JB-dm5cp]

6:44 A wonderful idea. I guess indeed no one has the Chuzpe to do it, though :-)

[@ferrisburgh802]

David, think The Mask of Fu Manchu with Boris Karloff for that Tam Tam...

[@barryguerrero6480]

Well, the sad thing, in my opinion, is that DG will probably never finish either his Bruckner or Shostakovich symphony cycles. DG has given up the ghost on everything, and Nelsons is just running around too much. Have you looked at his schedule? . . . . He's conducting Mahler 7 ALL OVER THE PLACE in January, with, I believe, the Gewandhaus. Go figure! . . . Personally, I would like to have the box set of his (one day) complete Boston Shostakovich cycle - not so much for Nelsons, but for the great playing of Boston (plus the snippets of various lighter things). Yes, yes, I know - there are lots of other great Shostakovich boxes out there, including those from Petrenko and Barshai. But we're not likely to get a whole lot more from the Boston Symphony, or any of the other truly expensive American orchestras. Sad, but true. What I really think, David, is that the whole business of how music that has already been performed and then gets distributed, needs to be readdressed. It would be a good thing if the major (and the so-called second tier) orchestras could cut deals with the ridiculous Musician's Union, and make ALL of their live concerts available as digital downloads. Then people could truly pick and choose. It'll never happen, of course. . . . Just as an f.y.i., I picked up the A. Nelson's Richard Strauss box, employing both Boston and Leipzig. It was very inexpensive, so why complain. Some of the performances in the box are quite good, and some aren't. But with two great orchestras, decent modern sound, and a low price tag, I'm not going to complain about it. I still have the Kempe box, as well as some of the Previn/V.P.O. ones. . . . . I can live without Nelsons, in general, but I would like to have the Shostakovich all boxed up.

[@kurtvantiem1901]

I love that tam tam

[@simontrezise8495]

I've heard him live and listened to a few of the recordings. Very disappointing so far. I agree with you. I'm afraid.

[@pprudencio1966]

One thing about his Beethoven cycle, despite most of the performances being rather dull and uninspired, the 2nd actually sounds quite good in my opinion. Well paced, lush strings, and the Vienna horns really shine. Of course, all are welcome to disagree, but I personally find it a high point in an otherwise dreary cycle.

[@dsammut8831]

"Giant Gripper!" Brilliant!

[@shadowhegog9798]

I’ve seen Andres Nelson’s live a few times (a couple times at symphony hall and once at Tanglewood) and he never seemed that remarkable to me. I saw him do Mahler 5 and Mahler 4 and the impression I came away with is that he is kinda the conductor equivalent of a slice of white bread: generally serviceable but not much more. He definitely bogged some things down (he held the finale of Mahler 5 back a lot, for instance), but what bugged me the most was how sometimes he will just lean against the bar on the podium behind him. Like this man is just leaning with left hand on the bar as well, mind you, and it almost gave the impression of a lack of respect. The orchestra definitely did the heavy lifting and in the end, I was really there to see Mahler and the BSO, not Andris Nelsons.

[@tonywatts6699]

Opolais is the former Mrs. Nelsons.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Oy.

[@phidelt2]

Fun fact - Opolais was the former Mrs. Nelsons when the recording was made. One could argue this could have made for an even more compelling performance. Sadly, this was not the case. For me, the14th is the weakest contribution to the cycle thus far.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@phidelt2 Yes, several comments have already pointed this out.

[@francescofurlan3098]

Oh Gosh! I hope Nelsons was "obliged" by DG to have Kristina Opolays in Shostakovich 14th...how on earth toy can think she comes out alive from her part? I remember her in the catathonic version of the "Simon Boccanegra" done by Baremboim at the Scala...ok, singing Verdi is difficult and Amelia's role is REALLY difficult...but she not only gave the sensation of having no idea of what she was singing, but also simply...sang very very bad! I have not heard this 14th with Nelsons conducting, but the only presence of the Opolays prevents me to buy such a disc...

[@toddreaker2298]

Conductors only purpose is to start, stop and keep the tempo.

[@markgibson6654]

A plethora of Tam Tams :)

[@SoiledWig]

i love my Wuhan 28" wind gong!

[@shawnhampton8503]

Christin Opelais (Oh puh lye us) is Nelsons' ex wife. She does have a wobble, which so many many singers have today. Makes me so sad. Their tone actually oscillates between two pitches and is NOT vibrato. If violinists or wind players in a professional orchestra played like this they would be fired.

[@barryguerrero6480]

Singers are booked years ahead of time, and are not easy to replace. The problem is that the pool of really good singers who can handle a wide range of repertoire has really diminished.

[@davidgoulden5956]

Saw him conduct twice in Vienna. Pretty sure it was his debut with the VPO. The main piece of the first concert was Dvorak's 9th, which - to be fair - sounded splendid. Found his podium antics deeply irritating. What a fussy jumped-up bandmaster he is. He makes that other podium showoff Rattle look like Klemperer. Literally stopped looking at Nelson after a while. EVERY single time I've visited Vienna since his debut he has been in town conducting the VPO or the VSO. Clearly the VPO like him. Well their taste in conductors is not infallible, is it? The last time I was in Vienna (before the advent of Covid 19) I spoke with someone who works for the VPO (not one of the players) and he agreed with my unfavourable evaluation of Nelsons, albeit restrainedly. Heard 2 of his Leipzig Bruckner recordings and 2 of his VPO Beethoven recordings. Nothing special. Will not be listening to them a second time. Agree with Pprudencio when he likened Nelsons to Jansons, who I never found distinctive in anything. The VPO liked Jansons, as well... David, do you reckon an Ormandy/Stereo box will be forthcoming? Enjoy your talks. Best to you and your cat. D.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I have no former word on Ormandy/Stereo. We can only hope. Pipo meows her best to you too.

[@davidgoulden5956]

@@DavesClassicalGuide You're a good man. You're knowledge of music puts me to shame (and I am a classical music obsessive, like most of the posters here) and you're amusing with it. Your eye-rolling and muttered 'Oh God' when you realised that N Marriner had recorded a Gershwin disc tickled me inordinately. And you're description of the audiences at those New Years Day concerts in Vienna had my Missus shaking with laughter... Appreciative meows from RonRon to yourself and Pipo. D.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@davidgoulden5956 Thank you very much. If we can't laugh at ourselves and each other, really, what a dull world it would be!

[@barryguerrero6480]

There's a very good dvd of a Mahler 2 that Nelsons conducted at Salburg with the Vienna Phil. Clearly everybody was up the occasion. It's very good. The V.P.O. usually sends their A-team for the big numbers at Salzburg. The same story holds true for Thielemann's "Alpine Symphony" on dvd from Salzburg. It's vastly better than the ghastly CD issue that DG put out years earlier (and also with the V.P.O.).

[@kylejohnson8877]

In addition to not being very interesting interpretively, he has one of the dullest repertoires of any conductor. He hasn’t recorded anything that hasn’t been done hundreds of times before, and better. Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven, Shostakovich - what’s next, a Mahler cycle? 🙄 Not to mention I hate how every album he records for DG has to have some pretentious picture of him on the front cover. Artist-centricity at its finest!

[@johnfowler7660]

A Bruckner cycle with the Boston Symphony would have been interesting.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Especially without a conductor. But that was a point I raised when this stuff was first announced. Why should he have to pick a "Bruckner" orchestra or "Beethoven" orchestra, thus insuring the same sounds we've heard a million times before? Why not spend some years in Boston molding the ensemble in his image and then we could hear some individuality of ensemble and interpretation (at least theoretically)--just like in the good old days! The problem is that the profession today is engineered to prevent just that sort of individuality from emerging. You fly in somewhere as a guest, record your Beethoven cycle in a week, and fly out. The results speak for themselves.

[@AlexMadorsky]

The Shostakovich 7 with Orfeo and the CBSO is decent, although certainly not spectacular or something I'd return to often. I haven't' heard any of the Nelsons/Boston cycle and I gather from you and others I'm not missing an awful lot. Too many great Shostakovich cycles out there on SACD (right now I'm working through Wigglesworth and Kitajenko) to bother with anything that is even slightly above average, let alone something mediocre. I haven't heard enough Nelsons to render an overall opinion, but again nothing I've read makes me feel obliged to change that circumstance.

[@barryguerrero6480]

My opinion is that you should listen to them yourself at a site that won't cost you money, such as Spotify, and then decide if they're right for you. While I haven't heard this latest set (I'm not a fan no. 14 to begin with), the previous ones at least feature really good playing from Boston. I like them - I won't say that their the best. I do like them enough that if DG ever issues a complete box set at a reasonable price, I'll buy it - especially if they stick in all the incidental music and such.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

I have recently founded the overrated musicians academy: Nelsons, Nazet Seguin, Heras Casado, to name but a few..

[@colinwrubleski7627]

"Snazzy-Yay-Gun". There is something about him i dearly love to dislike...^^

[@chickenringNYC]

No Levine??

[@ewmbr1164]

@@chickenringNYC only living conductors are under consideration.

[@kennirobertokristianto8550]

That list is incomplete without Dudamel

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

@@kennirobertokristianto8550 agree..thanks for adding another member!

[@lizbethglickman2725]

Pandemic or no, Maestro Nelsons is way past due to introduce something exciting on the Boston stage. He claimed Symphony Hall is one of the three top halls acoustically in the world. Let's see--a brilliant lyric tenor for a change? No, not Kaufmann....so overrated and same as usual in that category.

[@josephlow1102]

Lost his mojo

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

Luckily I wasn't paying any attention to Nelsons at all, so I'm good.

[@b1i2l336]

A woefully uneven and vastly overrated conductor. How on Earth did he achieve such status? There are at least a dozen of overall better musicians and conductors! When he is good, though, he can be very, very good!

[@cristianmunozlevill1265]

Please, name that dozen.

[@b1i2l336]

@@cristianmunozlevill1265 In my opinion, and I am not omnipotent, a narcissist, or all knowing: Klaus Mäkelä, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Andrès Orozco-Estrada, Valery Petrenko, Hans Graf, Gabor Takacs-Nagy, John Eliot Gardiner, Thomas Dausgaard, Lorenzo Viotti, Sakari Oramo, Jakub Hruša, Jaime Martin, Edward Gardner, and Juraj Valčuha. Those are the names that come immediately to mind, and I am sure there might be others. All of the aforementioned have given me hours of listening pleasure in both the concert hall and on recordings.

[@dennisbade3874]

@@b1i2l336 You mean Vasily Petrenko, I presume!

[@dennisbade3874]

And Marcello Viotti?

[@b1i2l336]

@@dennisbade3874 I regret to say I am not familiar with his work.