Musicians are quitting the industry because there is no money in music!

[@soulbasedliving]

When I was 17 things were affordable...the house I lived in while attending High School cost my parents $35,000 US...let that sink in....Inflation is the old eating their children's future. The music industry is part of a general collapse, of course the young aren't going to purchase ANYTHING their whole paycheck could go on groceries

[@JonatasAdoM]

The problem also lies in the fact that people are willing to pay whatever the store's asking. Each year the Iphone gets more expensive people still buy it without a thought.

[@macmcleod1188]

Your parents were most likely making $12,000 a year when they bought that $35,000 house. Cars used to cost about $3,000 then too. Inflation isn't the issue. Without inflation, people stop buying (waiting for things to be cheaper) and we get a great depression. A real issue is productivity is so high now that there are gluts in almost every area. More music comes out every year than I can listen to my entire life. More shows come out every year than I can watch. More books than I can read every year than I can read. I'm retired. I can't imagine what people working and commuting 10 hours a day do. A glut like this collapses prices in any market. Another factor is that people are as moral as they can afford to be. And people haven't gotten raises to keep up with productivity and inflation gains for 30 years. (and there is where inflation is a problem- when you don't get raises to keep up). All the money is going to 10% of the people. Guess what. That means you are going to sell 90% less product. And it shows up first in luxury products. Like music.

[@jarg8]

Spanda Makt It's not even inflation at this point. The country has allowed student loans to become a common thing, which has in turn allowed colleges to jack up their prices because they know it's a steady stream of revenue for them. It's quite disturbing and I think really does a good job representing the majority of things these days. Greed at the expense of an upcoming generation. The general public has been beat into submission by corporations and companies who only care about grabbing as much money as they can before they leave this world, regardless of the effects it has for everyone who inhabits the world moving forward. This is only the beginning, sadly.

[@aleatoriac7356]

Mac Mcleod Said what I was going to say, and said it better.

[@ShempDavidNiven]

Spanda You're closer to the truth than you know, and while Mac Mcleod makes good points on paper, he makes the mistake many do - of trying to explain away the lived reality of a world gone wrong as mere economics. But the fact is that the #1 culprit towards the death of commercial art/pop culture being viable ways to earn a living is less the prevalence of legal theft aka "file sharing" - though that is the _overwhelming_ secondary reason - than it is the SKYROCKETING cost of housing _even when adjusted for inflation._ Whether you rent or own, wherever you live in this country, your housing costs are now not only your #1 expense, but your runaway top expense in terms of *percentage of earned income.* In a country where real wages for the middle and working class have remained stagnant or negative-growth for 25-30 years now, that means dramatically less "leisure" income (and I gotta smh, as characterizing the money you have left after housing, food, bills and health coverage - the basic necessities of life - as "leisure", is like Big Brother jabbing his index finger in your chest and reminding you that _everything is juuuust fine)._ This is a situation that is guaranteed to only get worse now that Big Brother is so fully behind runamuck Third World immigration that they now condition us to believe that opposing it is some form of hate crime. (Sorry to drag in immigration, but the surest way to be defeated by our problems is to try to compartmentalize them.) If you think I'm wrong, ask yourself what your music collection would look like - or if you'd even have one at all! - if you weren't downloading _all_ of it.

[@TheGARCK]

People aren't stealing music. They listen to it legitimately on youtube, spotify etc. The music industry ripped off people big time when they marketed cds at twice the price and a 10th the cost to manufacture than vinyl and cassettes. Those same companies have always screwed their artists.

[@ChemistryTalkwithDan]

I am also a teacher and musician, and I've seen the same thing with my students. They don't own albums, and their idea of paying for music is buying a Spotify subscription. I've had to get creative to keep making music since being a father and a high school teacher consumes most of my time. I've gathered together musicians I've met online and created a virtual band. When people ask me where they can see us play I simply respond with "KZbin".

[@DVSPress]

+Chemistry Talk with Dan Sounds awesome, is it on your channel?

[@ChemistryTalkwithDan]

It's on my other channel, Roadside Beggars Music. Although, for copyright reasons, our music is the main source of background music in my chemistry videos.

[@theselector4733]

Chemistry Talk with Dan It's like he says - kids (most kids anyway) don't buy music these days. So maybe bands should focus more on a different demographic... possibly 30 - 45 yr olds?? I think the way bands market themselves & their music is also very important.

[@MrDanielWP]

Chemistry Talk with Dan - how is spotify different than listening on the radio for the last 75 years? Vevo on KZbin? Yeah, they pay the artists for that. People listen on Amazon music... but Amazon pays for that. When you don't garner enough interest, don't play on enough radio stations, you won't make money. Also, when agencies and studios are taking their cut, your margin is low.

[@StopMoColorado]

Daniel Peer - In the past, radio success stimulated album sales (in England, often Single sales, then EP sales with a few songs, and several months to a year or so later, an LP, fans basically paying two or three times for the same song in order to get a few additional songs). Spotify, Pandora, KZbin and Amazon listening stimulates...more (very low paying) listening on Spotify, Pandora, KZbin, and Amazon listening. I still buy albums, even if I mostly listen to the MP3's, but I'm from the demographic that prided itself in owning good music with cool sleeve art and liner notes...

[@robsgirl6465]

Hi Dave. Everything you've said is true. I saw this coming DECADES before the internet was even invented. Back in the early 1980s, a 4-piece rock band could earn $1000 for a 4 hour show. We did that every Friday and Saturday night. All year long. It was great. But in the late 1980s things changed. The clubs no longer paid good money for live acts. We were reduced to selling tickets. That was the beginning of the end, I think. Call it human greed? I don't know? Hey, every company is out to make the most profit. Right? Why pay a band $1000 when you can get them to sell tickets? Why hire a 4-piece band when you can hire a DJ? Well, I've been in and out of bands all my life. In my teens and 20s, I was in rock bands, metal bands, and punk bands. In my 30s, I was doing country and western and even folk. In my 40s, I was playing blues and jazz. I'm in my 50s now and have NEVER seen the kind of money that I saw in the early 1980s. I've tried just about everything I know of, and I still can't figure it out. I'm old. I'm not a techie. So streaming, social media, and everything internet eludes me. Even joining the AFM was not an option. Back in the day, you could join a union and the union would find you work. Not anymore. Now they just take your dues and give you nothing in return. There's a guy on KZbin claiming that you can earn $100,000 in under a year using his business plan. What's that? Simple. Get 1000 people to pay you $25 every 3 months. Ok. Sure. The numbers work out. But what that guy don't tell you is even IF you could get a social media network over 500,000 people, good luck on finding even 1000 of those true, die-hard fans. A friend of mine was like you... a self-published author... he had over 10,000 people on his social media network. He didn't earn squat. He stopped writing books in 2013. This was after writing for 23 years and publishing 15 books. Yes, the world is changing. I don't know how any of us are going to survive. The future looks grim. Personally, I don't care about getting rich or famous, selling tons of records, or touring the world. I'd be happy to earn a paltry $300 to $600 a week playing the local club. But I think even those days are gone.

[@PanthaIassic]

"Call it human greed? Idk" ... "Every company is out to make the most money, right?" The root of the problem is capitalism (Dave might not agree with me on this lol). As long as there's a reinforced incentive to exploit artists (or anyone--- workers, or peasants in some other country) things won't change. I say reinforced because not only are you incentivized to keep more money for yourself and your own company, but you're afraid of another company becoming more profitable. This is what causes rampant and often callous exploitation of artists and workers who aren't in a position to fight back in a meaningful way. Frankly (and I'm not sure if this is what Dave was doing), it's not even right to blame younger people for refusing to pay for music. Another commenter mentioned inflation, which is correct. In the 80s, you could get a job and pay your way through college without going into massive debt... of course people won't pay for music these days... most people have no disposable income at all. If the lower classes made enough money to pay for their necessities and then some, I have no doubt that at least a large number of them (perhaps not all---- but a lot) would be glad to support artists and pleased to own a catalog of their own music in itunes or whatever... but they don't. Many people can barely pay rent as it is.

[@xflatearthx4869]

@@PanthaIassic Hi Liam - You're wrong my man. Its quite simple; people(kids) have the internet. People are now endlessly entertained. There is now not much reason to leave the house + the dollar is not as strong as years past and wages are up maybe 5% and expenses are up around 20% of 20 years ago. Now you can listen to music, watch live shows - why date, you can watch porn anytime you want. Game with anyone almost instantly. The world is changing in a big way. The shift started in 2000, we are all trying to make sense of what is happening.

[@vaitgabalhag]

Shit...

[@dagnabbit6187]

@Andre Morais Cannot believe the naivety of everybody that says “ Oh you can do this or that “ Bull Shit. . Gene Simmons told the truth & everybody dumped on him . Stevie Nicks, Roger Daltrey , Ted Nugent all put in their own opinions of how the modern technology killed it but Simmons did blame the techie fans and I think he is correct . As to money being made for performing in clubs and small venues , that started going in the 80s as this guy noted . Alger yourself from rags to riches in not just music but even literature and pretty soon film ( think films with the IPhone and Covid) no more Random House and Hollywood will be a ghost town pretty soon

[@RoneySmithseedoflife]

I thoroughly enjoyed the video and it is very eye opening for any genre! Best wishes to you and as a former teacher, touching the future through one's students is priceless!

[@hwbierce6548]

Speaking as a musician, the sad thing is -unless you're a musician - no one really cares.

[@gundarsmiks4889]

Yeah. I dont care... When did you care if someone else doesnt have money?!

[@essambehslines6323]

😂😂😂😂 damn ​@@gundarsmiks4889

[@AethyrPrime]

This phenomenon is not limited to just the music scene. In the 90s I was a professional graphic designer. I made a ton of money. These days though the business is fruitless. People from 3rd world countries have flooded the business with cheap talent. They have entire teams of people willing to work for pennies on the dollar. I moved to the Philippines and looked up a few job listings for graphic design jobs. Many were US firms, that paid 250$ per month. That put everything in perspective for me. Now I teach English to Chinese students because they pay more than other countries.

[@BoleDaPole]

Globalization is a bitch.

[@rallabhandiprabhakar4750]

Funny the first world guys go to third world to get higher pay but when the cheap third world talent is moving to the first world they crib. Some businesses just wind up because the time or technology is no longer relevant ( Audio tapes and VCD and may be CDs, i pod etc ) but sometimes the cast aside products may come back into reckoning(Vinyl disc). Who knows Rock may make a big comeback after a few years when people get sick of overdosing on pop or hiphop

[@thezogs95]

And to think I got a degree in this just recently

[@samsmith7585]

"Now I teach English to Chinese students" So they can come here and take what jobs are left. Thanks, guy.

[@acampoverdeify]

Education spread all over the world, now you can get people to write code, design anything or perform surgeries for little money somewhere in a poor country.

[@Lengsel7]

By far, for the most part, music NEVER HAS paid, except for the very few. And out of those few, the vast majority got majorly ripped-off.

[@lightworker1969]

Brad K You are 100% correct. The labels find various reasons to not pay royalties on sales. Many of the stars of my age 53, I now make more money than them with a regular 9-5.

[@dagnabbit6187]

Bluesguy1964 Lots Of horror stories from the old days . Read Me,the Mob , and Music by Tommy James . His is just E Pluribus Unum of not getting paid . Modern one is Boys to Men , I think

[@samc7381]

so music does pay just not the artist.

[@FiveironFlores]

So true! Thanks for making this video. I just stepped away from teaching guitar full time for the same reason. Thought I'd beat the system by going with a steadier gig rather than being in a band but it seems musicians of all kind are in a losing fight to convince people that music is worth something. Tragic when you know that it's really of immeasurable worth.

[@DVSPress]

+FiveironFlores I created this channel because I had planned on giving up music, but I keep getting sucked back in. By the way I do think there are market opportunities for music teachers, but Guitar as an instrument is in a bit of a lull compared to 10-20 years ago. Hopefully it will swing back around.

[@FiveironFlores]

Haha I hear ya, well for the time being I'm glad you chose to make this channel. A guitarist with opinions on movies?! Thought I was the only one, keep at it!

[@DVSPress]

I will, thanks!

[@Greedusa]

The term starving artist has more meaning today than it ever has! Between people downloading the music for free and Internet radio sites like Spotify and Pandora giving you almost nothing for listens, there is very little money in music today for the artist. I released a Metal album last year that has been getting decent plays on Spotify and other Internet radio stations but it only turns into about $50 a month in compensation for an album that took six months to record and a few years to write the songs. I haven’t sold a single CD. Why buy an album when you can listen to it for free on Internet radio or steal it on the web. With Internet radio, if you get 1 million plays in a month, it only translates to $1000 in compensation from royalties at $.001 per play. That’s less than working a minimum wage job! Basically you have to do it for the love of the music now, there is no money, very sad 😞

[@kingtrance6826]

$GREED$ Yup it’s unfortunately only worth pursuing for a hobby and personal satisfaction now. It’s a hard lesson indeed friend.

[@JM-cf8zy]

It's all the steaming services, the artists gets penny's not pounds / dollars. The distributors make the money and get a good chunk of stream plays. If an mp3 is £1.50, the label gets 25p the artist gets 25p. Distribution gets £1 about 66% of every sale. Greedy bastards have killed the industry. So now artists and acts aren't coming through. Hence why the music quality the last decade has been shite! Old days it was all cds sales and vinyl sales and way more money In each sale. Now its all streaming and free plays on KZbin?

[@wertyghjkl-fc3dx]

Now that's just sad to read, I love buying CD's so I can read the booklet that comes with it.

[@MrROTD]

Besides the lack of album sales theres also way too many middlemen taking a slice of the pie, the musicians get a pittance while promoter and ticket sellers get rich, I used to make ok money touring around bars in the early 90s playing in a cover band, maybe 3 nights a week, I don't even think that's a thing anymore. As far as original music goes I have a few fans and people who say they like my music but they won't pay for it LOL

[@DVSPress]

+Rex Holes I used to play 3 nights a week in an original trio. We barely got by. As a solo guitarist I did much better, but I can tell you that the live music business has been steadily decaying over the last 20 years, especially for entry and mid-level work. Most venues don't even want live music it seems.

[@BaazarStudios]

I worked as a composer for 7 years in Hollywood and a songwriter and guitarist. There is 0 money here unless you are in EDM, Hiphop or on the composer side if your name is Hans Zimmer, Bryan Tyler, Giachinni, and Bear McCreary.

[@axlrosesson6300]

why is there money in EDM and hip hop?

[@ManUPLifeCoaching]

@@axlrosesson6300 licensing, festivals, touring, ads, merch, fashion etc.

[@colinrussell2017]

@@axlrosesson6300 Still SUPER competitive. The entry level to music production has never been lower (pirated software, free tutorials on youtube to learn evrything) so there are more people doing it than ever. There is WAY more supply than demand. Over 1000 new songs are uploaded to Spotify every hour. 1000+ new songs... EVERY. FVCKN. HOUR.

[@thenaftewards4064]

EDM is on a decline.

[@Qrayon]

@@thenaftewards4064 Every Darn Musician?

[@inspectionnegross8695]

most musicians are best off working a day job and playing for fun and self expression. Play with friends when and where you want, cut out the commercial elements all together. If you have money from other sources then its not an issue.

[@BoleDaPole]

Inspection Negross that's what 99% of musicians have done. Most have 2nd or 3rd jobs in some cases. I know a band that actually pays a bar to play there on the weekends.

[@pebblenapkins]

the pay is fulfillment. worth all the time and money i spend on music

[@daveethridge7342]

Lars was right. Uh oh. I used to have a great band called Electric Spyder Boogaloo. We were a psychedelic metal band with lots of experimental jazz and blues rhythms. Of course we broke up and I went and grew up, becoming the Postman. I now make $69,000 a year and I want to get back into playing my old style of music just for an artistic expression. I love the process and the equipment of making and recording music, but there's no way I'd ever quit the Post Office.

[@DVSPress]

Fenriz from Darkthrone works at the post office in Norway :)

[@GetOffMyLawnRecords]

you can just stream it! Fun fact, most people paying $10/mo for spotify weren't spending $120/yr on CDs, even in the era of overpriced CDs. Spotify is just awful to the artists in terms of sharing that $10/mo though. There's a better way.

[@NebadonAdams]

The Record Companies weren't much better. Always touring and merch. ALWAYS. The problem is exposure is harder to get in a SEA of music.

[@DonaldMohrMusic]

Nebadon Adams I hear you, that's why I started Get Off My Lawn Records We collectivize our smaller audiences to create a larger one

[@BoleDaPole]

Nebadon Adams merch is where the artists can make the most in some cases a majority comes from touring and merch sales.

[@DevinsDen]

As a musician and recording artist it’s super tough. I’ve contemplated many times just giving up music and selling off my equipment. It’s not worth it anymore if you ain’t making a profit. The younger kids don’t buy music it’s true. It’s gonna continue to get worse.

[@DyanBermeo]

and the plug ins are expensive to.

[@JesusChrist5000]

There was a time once when Jazz musicians had hope of becoming rich and famous. That gradually fell away to the era of the rock musician. Now rock musicians are falling into the same predicament as Jazz and classical musicians

[@DyanBermeo]

EDM producers to. Its all oversaturated.

[@surajitsamanta01]

Adopt to change!

[@TheNewgirl70]

Metallalica warned artists about how downloading music would leave artists penniless.

[@TheNewgirl70]

Gerrardo-Barrios Espinosa I'm old:). They're a rock band.

[@HamguyBacon]

they are old retards and have no clue on how to promote their music.

[@kevinjoseph517]

makes no fffin difference..and Im not a metalika fan.

[@charbax]

Metallica have made a few Billion dollars, James Hetfield is worth $300 million, Lars Ulrich is worth $175 million, probably a bunch more. They have no problem with money.

[@kingtrance6826]

Hamguy Bacon OK FOOL!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@itsrelativ3967]

Almost 5 years later and this video still holds a lot of truth. Which is why I gave up composing from 2010 to 2016. These BMI checks can only afford me a different color of Beats by Dre headphones these days. I've never put any of my music on Spotify, Apple Music, etc because the checks my composer buddy have shown me are a complete joke. We both have non-music full-time day jobs now.

[@rrrrdavid1]

When I went to concerts in the 80s tickets were 6 to 10 dollars.Then the 90s it was about 50 or so obviously depending the artist. Now a 150 to 300 or more. 300 dollars is food for the month. There are some artists out there I would love to see but I am not paying 300 dollars to see them. Then the parking and traffic etc etc etc. People don't even pay attention to the show because everyone has their camera phone. What is the point of that? The concert is right in front of you. Does anyone just take anything in anymore?

[@derwandschauer]

I am a musician, and I am about to quit. I spent over 15 000 Dollars in the last Decade for my music, and I didn't get anything back. And by making music and uploading it on fb and KZbin I make the companies that put me out of business stronger. I mean fuck it.

[@UltimateMoralizer]

This is very true. If I had kids, I would allow them to pursue music as a hobby, but I would ensure that they also invest in something lucrative from a young age and strive to become super successful, unlike most millennials. As a conscious hip-hop artist, I regret choosing music. There are millions of artists who have more talent in their little finger than mainstream artists do in their whole body, yet they receive no recognition or promotion.

[@BadEconomyOfficial]

Which is why there should be a law against Hollywood getting involved in the Music Business

[@UltimateMoralizer]

@@BadEconomyOfficialExactly.

[@joek600]

The thing is that since broadband internet connections became a standard, there is a huge volume of output. And I dont mean only the downloading (and pirating options). Internet made band promoting easy. Almost anyone can get anything out to the world. There are literaly millions of new bands popping out. BUT there is a huge difference of status for a relatively known band today with one from past decades. Back then there were also many bands, but most of them were eliminated during the race for a contract and we never heard about them. Now musicians can promote themselves and make a name almost for free via internet. They get the fame, but they dont have the financial back up from investors (thats what music companies are) as the handpicked bands of old time. Now the companies have many baskets with eggs to disperse their funds but also many ways to save money. The elimination process that was taking place before the contract in the past, now its happenning ''live'' on air. In the end there's going to be about the same number of financialy viable bands, cause thats the number the market can support. Most people try to blame piracy and they dont realize that they are beating the companies drum when they take account of the number of downloads as lost sales. No the sales wouldnt be 200% more. Because most people download stuff just because they can and hardly ever listen to them. When I was a teen in the 90's the majority of young people were recording tapes and had but afew original vinyls or official tapes. You got a new album and by the time you were announcing it at school the next day you had about 20 blank tapes to record for your mates. Even back then bands with one or two albums, were forced to have day jobs. The examples you gave in the video are practically nobodies. Back then they wouldnt be known to the next block. They would only dream a career in the music industry.

[@bobbywizdum5248]

@Catasstrophy how does one reach millions without spending a penny?

[@ACEDIAMOND666]

Spot on. Like Shania Twain said...."If you're not in it for love, get outta here". As a metal musician myself, after 25 years and 8 records, I am getting out of the business. I have always done it for the love of my craft. However, the thing I love has turned into something I hate. It hurts my heart so much, that I had to cut the cancer out of my life. My career in the music industry is over. My band, The Ace Diamond Experience, I had to retire. It's over. I'm done. Now I must go on with my life after music. Divorce hurts. Goodbye, my love. Time to move on.

[@thezogs95]

Play locally. It is all anybody can do now

[@saulgoodman7858]

Cut your losses.

[@tiagobras2271]

To be honest the Metal scene is not really representative of the music industry as whole. In my opinion, we're talking about a completely overcrowded market and the demand for this kind of product is not growing for the amount of the presented offer. I know it's harsh putting music/art in such simplistic business terms, but after all we're talking about entertainment.

[@DVSPress]

+Tiago Bras I don't think its harsh to think of music as a business, that's precisely what I'm talking about here. And as for other scenes - some of them are far worse. Hell, there wouldn't be any such thing as a classical scene if there weren't taxpayers bankrolling it through orchestras and students (and taxpayers) subsidizing universities. Metalheads are pretty die hard, so if players in that scene are having problems I think it would be hard for mid-level players in other styles as well. Market over-saturation is a thing, though, and Metal isn't really attracting mainstream interest anymore to hit the "long tail" of deeper genres.

[@tiagobras2271]

David Stewart Couldn't agree more with you as far as the genres you mentioned. On the other hand, I think that you actually can make money out of this industry. In Portugal, the country I'm from, we have a really small market compared to the US and if by any chance you can't include female audience from the age of 12 to 24 in your target market, you'll have a hard time getting at least your investment back. For different reasons, I would conclude the same for the US market as far as the Billboard Top 40 is concerned.

[@DVSPress]

A big reason the music industry (at least in the US) is hurting is because of a big loss in spending of that same age group (which has always been very profitable) compared to 20 years ago. I teach music at a high school currently, and I found with a poll that only a few people out of over 100 had ever paid for music in any form, ever. No albums, no iTunes, nothing given from their parents, nothing. I know that's anecdotal, but I've seen some industry statistics that basically say the same thing.

[@tiagobras2271]

People not buying music (physical or digital) is just the sign of the times, not saying by any means I support it, but in fact that business model is outdated. Although people stopped buying music that doesn't necessarily mean they're not exposed to it in ways that can be profitable for the Artist/Songwriter. For instance, the social media like Facebook, KZbin, Instagram, Tweeter and so on, can be very profitable when used efficiently. The same goes for the streaming services, if your fan base is large enough and you get enough plays, you can also negotiate the terms in which the company can/can't use your work.That's just two quick examples on how people are listening to your songs for "free" and you can profit from it. In my opinion, this just comes down to how big your market is, if your product gets enough exposure so that people are willing to pay you to attract more consumers to their own business, you might actually profit from making music. On the other hand, if your product can't get that exposure and you're forced to sell your product directly to your listeners, people will most definitely find a way to have it for free.

[@MrROTD]

+Tiago Bras Youre right, theres so many Metal bands and most are so alike you cant expect to make a million dollars that way, the really great Metal bands do make some money

[@horatioredgreenblue2130]

you didn't touch on the wider ramifications for music making in general. The decline will surely effect the amount and quality of music produced. Is this the end of good music? Even before recorded music musicians could always get paid for live shows so is this all unprecedented? Another piece of the rancid pie is the way music held in low esteem post x-factor with ignorance of the sacrifice and skill that goes into being able to produce good music. Can't even make money tutoring now. The gig is over - It's all a desperately sad state of affairs.

[@EG-qp7nt]

Wish I'd seen this earlier as this pretty much sums up the experience of many people I know. Thanks for being so frank, your honesty is refreshing and comforting to those who think it's only them who are struggling, but rather its across the board.

[@NebadonAdams]

The Nineties...ahhh...I was 13 in 1993, painting apartments, buying comic books and cds at the end of EVERY summer week. Plus, the radio wasn't completely neutered back then.

[@dijonstreak]

awesome...very informative...great guidelines, advice and hella REALITY CHECK..very needful for all musicians...highly recommended.....

[@arsenii_yavorskyi]

yeah, it sounds like those musicians are stuck in the past, but blame pirates for everything.

[@andersistbesser]

This video now is 8 years old and nothing has changed..

[@DVSPress]

If anything, it has gotten worse.

[@christopherschneider5657]

100% true. My last gig at a night club cost me 1000 bucks, and I played to 16 people. After my band 2 dj's showed up, the club filled up and I realized this sucks. I'm out.

[@DVSPress]

Man...

[@CavemanJesus4Life]

Bands only make money playing live, that's the only way to make money. The record business is dead, Pop Music has killed it, Radio has killed it, and Music television killed it. Constant touring, and less spending on the road is the only way to make it. Personally who is AEON? I never heard of them. Many bands have come out and all they do is tour and have no road crew. They do it all themselves with maybe 3 or 4 guys helping them. Seems every band wants some big ass road crew. You don't need them.

[@AnymMusic]

instrumental out, digital in I guess. so yay for me

[@nomomofromnewjersey2864]

Yep play live. That's all we do.

[@thatwasprettyneat]

one thing i love about youtube is how you can see someone with a geico caveman avatar and the name "cavemanjesus4life" write a comment about the mechanics of the music business and why it's dead.

[@harmonicamanrandy]

Why are the biggest people in music still making money? There's more to this and I think it's a controlled market.

[@ghastlybat107]

Try to imagine the music people dont get to enjoy because they prevented it from existing.

[@Oortcloud67]

Exactly.

[@CelestialWoodway]

I won't lose any sleep over it. LOL Plenty of good music exists already.

[@bradgregory6995]

Somehow, I don't think people are worried about music that didn't get made because they were listening to music that DID get made 24/7.

[@marrionhues7296]

Yeah the artists used to at least turn profits from touring now artists need sponsorships or publists to gain traction. But record labels aren't in control of the shows they invest in because their merged with companies that profit off the work of the artists & their venues. I remember even in the 2000's creative wasn't so scarce.

[@marrionhues7296]

Creative license! I mean.

[@Materva-hv6sz]

A few years ago a charting Indie band reported that they didnt have health insurance and shared apartments. This was a band that has had several top 20's in the Billboard Alternative charts and featured prominently in festivals. I think their name was Grizzly Bear but Im not sure

[@IsraelIsLikeWater]

Materva 1974 yeah I remember that article

[@CelestialWoodway]

Paul Stanley from KISS didn't get his first apartment in New York until after the first 3 KISS albums or so, A lot of famous musicians are not nearly as wealthy as people think and that has always been the case in reality.

[@kevinjoseph517]

and corporate people --label people--some are very rich.

[@kevinjoseph517]

same w springsteen and the who---bad choices and management problems..and many others.

[@michaelmartin9022]

@@CelestialWoodway A lot of young and famous musicians only see the fame, and just take the money for granted. They get flown around the world to top hotels while they are touring, but all the ticket and sales money goes to the label. When they are released from the contract they don't have anything

[@buddhajoecoughlin3011]

hey great insight. depressing at most. Ive been a musician for 35 years. Im a member of ASCAP. I write and publish music for TRANSITION MUSIC in LA. My last check from them was 12 dollars. when in the 90s it was 1,200.00. Like you im from the old school. Seems to me both rock and metal are dead as far as making money, Further down the link someone makes a good point. The music scene has changed and its a young mans sport.If you dont get famous in the first 3 years or sell tons of product please get out while you can.

[@kevinjoseph517]

can I hear yr songs?

[@marrionhues7296]

Buddha Joe Coughlin I'm sorry to here that.

[@dong4176]

well the problem no one talks about is that labels and musician lost respect for the audience...just putting out 2 or more albums a year with 1 or 2 good songs...they toured so much if you caught a show half way they looked and sounded burned out...album covers lost artistic touch so why even bother buying music...I think it will come back around in maybe 20 yrs

[@kingtrance6826]

Buddha Joe Coughlin Excellent advice. It’s a great and fun hobby but would never recommend it as a business opportunity. ✌️

[@GuitarGrrrella]

There's never been money in the music-- or any arts-- industry for most people. That's where the "starving artist" stereotype comes from. I'm not saying it's impossible to make money. Certainly, some people do. But most creative people--musicians, writers, actors, painters, etc., do struggle. That's just always been true for most of us.

[@brianfuller5868]

Its been true with Jazz since the 60s. Jazz largely faded from the mainstream music scene beginning in the 50s and even established acts struggled by the 60s. Jazz has never regained its pre-1960s place, sadly. Music has always been a difficult industry to make money in because it is a business. It is certainly harder now.

[@ipsurvivor]

The scene is for young people who can live out of a van and share a cheap ass apartment or live in a converted cargo van.... Live off beans and rice, Raman noodles, Mac N Cheese, etc...

[@mismismism]

Yeah, the internet has screwed music. No one buys music, all these apps, and companies take the lion's share of the profit from the music that does sell/stuff like spotify. Clubs and bars don't want to pay acts to perform(not just musicians) or they pay so little it doesn't remotely cover travel, rehearsal space or any equipment/costumes/etc. Unless you're at the top and are then able to become a living billboard, you are not going to make money.

[@damir4132]

Maxx Nieves Well i cant say for the state of affairs in US or elsewhere but where im from even though we get payed top dollar for a gig and have frequent gigs its just not enough to warant any serious commitement. That top dollar is still just 80 dollar on average per person. That is laughable when you have one of the best musicians in the country in your band. The girl is a concert master in our national theatre and all she can expect from a gig is 80 dollars! How the hell are you going to convince her to waste more time and make her own music when that is the case. No matter how good you are its only worth seeing this as a pass time that maybe earns a few dollars on the side.

[@ButcherGrindslam]

Wut? Streaming services are paying money to artists (of course if you are releasing music alone without labels). Also: Internet has another possibility in preservation original releases of classic albums. Look for torrents where discographies contain several editions of the same album for good reason. People don't wanna buy overcompressed tracks, new releases and recent reissues of old albums don't suffer from this shit. I download music from torrents for FLAC and also buy it in iTunes, Google or Bandcamp. For those who like to rant about "piracy": Bandcamp has the same price for ANY format. So, when I buy music from iTunes and GooglePlay, I download FLAC which matches better.

[@HamguyBacon]

The internet didn't screw music, the music industry screwed music. the internet free'd the consumer and artist from being taken advantage of.

[@2mileclimb833]

the internet gave the music industry a sharper knife to cut its own throat

[@okrajoe]

In the future, it is all going to be streaming/subscription money, and then fighting how that money gets divided up among all the artists/songwriters/labels. And then some large percentage of plays go to decades-old classic rock artists (Beatles, Zep, U2, Floyd, etc.).

[@scubavader]

I've been enjoying many of your vids, so thank you! It seems that there are indeed many factors that led us to where we are today. Fans got burned buying crappy albums in the 90's because they couldn't easily hear what they were investing $13 - $18 in when they bought a CD and when the flood gates finally opened to the "try before you buy" option many now "try" and never go back to "buy" on the follow through. I still buy CD's when I can find them and even cassettes and vinyl because I still dig the physical media and collect vintage audio gear, but second hand stores or thrift shop sales do not help the artist. Often, for me, the way to support the artist and discover new and interesting music that we can still try and then buy are found on websites like Bandcamp. I would love to hear any thoughts on sites like these that are adapting to the new way of promoting artists work online. Great call on Gamma Ray! Somewhere Out In Space is an all time classic!

[@craigroberts1670]

Being in a band when you have family at home just doesn't work. When I was playing out getting married and having kids was the last thing on my mind - I wanted to live the rock n' roll lifestyle, not settle down. In the short time you have to be really on top you put out a handful of CDs with great songs and tour, make some money then quit while your ahead so you can look back and say you lived the dream before the dream became a nightmare. If you still love making music and have a real gift for songwriting then build your own home studio to write, record, produce and engineer your own music to be posted on KZbin. As long as someone is still listening then its more than worth the effort.

[@Trollificusv2]

It's a problem. My music is folk/bluegrass/nugrass/acoustic instrumental. A lot less overhead compared to metal (and that's just for makeup and costumes!), but the same problem. Gillian Welch (who is a successful folk duet with creative guitar player Dave Rawlings) wrote a poignant song about the problem called "Everything is Free", not lecturing, not raging, but definitely saddened by it. When I realized that my helping myself to her music was making her unhappy, I sent $50 to her publishing company. Figured that would be enough to cover their cut if I'd bought all their records. I mean, I was saying her music was not worth anything to me, and then telling people she was a songwriter on par with Richard Thompson or Leonard Cohen (hyperbole, but she's really good, very painstaking writing). So I addressed the issue. Problem is, I can listen to, appreciate, even love a lot more music than I can afford. What's the solution there?

[@poorsillyboy]

Do music because you love it, not for what you think u might get!

[@poorsillyboy]

Music is about togetherness it’s got nothing to do with money! That’s a corporate mindset not a creative one! If you play music for your village in the evenings and someone hands you a bowl of food for your efforts in entertaining them, then that’s great….but when you start to expect it, the villages will not want to cooperate! So you don’t continue and go hungry & it’s bad for everyone! Especially those who enjoy the evenings listening to you play and sing! So, let that sink in!!! if you go into music thinking your gonna make money from it, it will destroy you! you must carry this mindset of enjoyment into your craft first! Because it costs a lifetime, not just a moment in time!

[@dt7353]

Kid Rock said a long time ago that he didn't care if people pirated his albums because the record companies were stealing from him and he wasn't seeing the money anyways. Bands are struggling now because they always struggled. Only the biggest truely get rich, the rest are just trying to make money having fun instead of getting a desk job.

[@jaznseedski]

I'm still working in music, but I had to get a day job...I'm in a pretty not-so-popular area in terms of genre (classical-jazz-folk-ish-esque), but the day job finally had to happen. Things were better (in terms of money) in the 90s...no doubt.

[@ALoonwolf]

There is no change from the past; the popular songs were played on the radio, and people recorded these radio broadcasts, and made copies of albums they'd bought to give to their friends for free, etc. The difference is in how the modern music industry scams all the artists out of their profits. They get promised riches and then sign a contract that gives it all away.

[@jason_scott_delotel]

It's very sad. I am a songwriter who has been in the music business for over 30 years. I am an excellent singer, drummer, guitarist, etc. It's an awful time for musicians. The internet changed everything. No record labels don't support you anymore. You can DIY it all yourself, but nobody buys records/cds anymore. So you are basically screwed. And when you post your music online- everyone steals/downloads it for free. I used to have a MySpace page (when myspace used to be hip), but I closed it down after finding out that certain websites were stealing my songs and selling the mp3's of them. Nobody cares about music anymore- like this video says- why would people pay for music when they can hear it on KZbin for free? So sad. Musicians aren't getting paid for the beautiful art they create. The world has changed for The worst- this has really hurt artist everywhere. I suggest just doing it because you love it. If you really, really don't love it, than don't do it. This is the only reason. You won't get paid for it. Any rock or pop star dreams you may have is a shot in the dark. I still do music because I love a great song. But if everyone quits because they can't make money? What is left? A bunch of dilettante fakers who can't play instruments or sing, and voila- there you have it- this is the reason the music world sucks So bad right now!

[@jason_scott_delotel]

This is why all the new music we hear today really sucks. Because all the truly great artists, like my self work full time jobs to pay the bills. And when we can we do our music, we do a little at a time. but most of the people putting out music today haven't been doing it for 30+ years like me. Their spoiled. Their parents are rich. They have Not Suffered through hardships. And most people will tell the the truth- great art comes through Suffering. Struggling. Having a hard life. THIS is What creates amazing beautiful art. Not spoiled kids who have been handed everything on a silver platter their whole life! The result is empty, soulless, vapid music with no heart. No emotions. Just because you can hit beautiful high note singing; doesn't mean there's anything Behind It! When I hear new music today I hear girls with wonderful voices hitting high notes- But I Don't FEEL Anything! No emotions. No moods. Nothing. Just cold empty, heartless music. That's pretty much what we are hearing music wise these days!

[@DVSPress]

Some model will emerge in the future, but I don't know what it is yet. Maybe a return to patronage by the elite, which is how most musicians outside the church got paid in past centuries. I still put out music but it's mostly for its own sake, not to make a living.

[@benyaeast4741]

I quit music too 1 month ago! and it's true everything you guys said! I have been a musician my whole life and a refugee in australia, busking for 5 years to get by and made music the whole time, but recently there's no money in music and no one pays for it pr supports it unless you are some big celebrity or something. I will continue to make music for my self but I think we all have to get an apprenticeship somewhere 😅

[@thenaftewards4064]

Anyone can make music from their moms basement now.

[@ALoonwolf]

People will pay for a physical object like a compact disc that will play the music, in a little box with printed pictures and lyrics and stuff. But only a fool would pay real money for something that had no substance, just a piece of data using the space you own. Especially since this data once stored on your own REAL devices could become corrupted or lost. It is literally nothing. And you can't steal sound and light, you can only steal a device that stores it.

[@The_Buff_Guy]

There is NO money is albums. You can’t expect a dime from the thieves of the planet. However, if you’re smart with your money, as a bar band touring your country say around aeon’s level or slightly smaller, slightly bigger, you CAN make a profit. Granted it’s not much. But if you’re a band around this size who tours multiple times a year, and you work a part time job, you can make money and support your dream. Wife and kids you’ll have to hold off on sad to say, but it holds you way back financially. And THE BIG ONE!!! Drugs and alcohol!!! No one comes out and fukn says it anymore, but most bands this size have members quitting because they’re idiots who blow the tiny amount of money they actually make on tour on booze and blow. Conserve your money. Save it. And you will get ahead. Also, it helps to play a more accessible genre. There is no money in death metal. Cannibal corpse makes around $30 grand a show, gross. The biggest death metal band in the world. That’s a joke. Take a more mainstream style of metal around that level, say anthrax. Both bands from the 80s, both big acts, but one is more accessible to the public, and anthrax makes around 90k a show or more. You can’t expect to make money if you’re playing a genre that just appeals to the underground. Break through to the mainstream or you’ll be broke. Sad but true.

[@itsrelativ3967]

I blame Myspace, torrents and smart phones..........

[@billthecat2410]

The real problem started with a very greedy industry that sold CD's. I guess you would have to be around in the 1960's and 70's to see the huge change in the value of music as a whole. When you bought albums in the 60's and 70's you might get 1 or two bad filler songs but on the whole the whole albums had really good music on them. Then the 80's. Oh god the 80's and even the late 70's you started to see albums that had one or two good songs and the prices were going up and up and up on the CD's and you did not get your money's worth buying them just to get a few good songs with a lot of crap to fill in the rest. The greed of the producers, managers or the music industry really killed the music industry because they were putting anyone that could breath on records instead of really working with talent made most of the music worthless and gave rise to an attitude that I would rather download the one or two good songs than buy a expensive CD to get it and there you are. It's not a big shock things went the way they did. If there is a group that is really worth buying I've had no trouble buying it but it's pretty rare. If I see a new Jeff Beck album out I'll get it because at least I know he is still putting out some great music.

[@themusiccritic902]

since prince has died you tube is playing all of his unreleased works so his family is getting no money for it

[@a093423848238819]

My local music shop closed where I bought my first guitar. The next gen will never know whats it like to play a musical instrument.

[@rudygracia5573]

The music profession is VERY uncertain(understated);About 10 years ago I saw this posting on Facebook.A"Tejano"band was selling off(silent auction)their equipment and S-W-E-E-T TOUR BUS!!I'd never heard of this band!They were unsigned,had been touring for 18 years.They had quite a stash of high end/vintage guitars and basses,drums,horns,and a massive P.A.etc..We sometimes only notice the local band's,and the one's who made it,not the unkown one's who are touring.I invested quite heavily into my music,equipt etc..But,30+ years ago I heard Kenny Roger's advise;"NEVER PUT ALL YOUR EGGS INTO ONE BASKET!!".D-I-V-E-R-S-I-F-Y !!!Thank GOD I did!!SO glad I retired from the Air Force.

[@DoubtingThomas333]

Yep, same here man. I bought many albums in the 90's going through primary and highschool. Times have changed so much. Not to mention tickets to a show cost much more than buying an album or 3.

[@mrgeraldbroughton1105]

I agree. People not buying music like that no more. I buy most of my cd's from goodwill or, I special order the artist albums still in print. Most of these record labels are not manufacturing cds, tapes and vinyl anymore. I don't see how they make money. Especially with the pandemic going on and the silicon bank collapsing this year in 2023. Service Merchandise, Circuit City and tons of more cd stores in Atlanta went out of business.

[@AnEvolvingApe]

I think the other factor with "no money in music" is that there are 1000's of bands out there. I think I recall seeing stats somewhere online that approx 10,000 recording metal bands exist in the USA alone. When you have a huge supply basic economic theory applied makes the value go to zero. I'm close to 50yo and I don't remember there being so many bands in metal in the 90's (and the 80's I think I can name maybe 2 dozen bands) as there are now. And with rock too. It seemed like music sources like radio and MTV railroaded you back then into listening to maybe a 100 bands and today you can go online and 1000's of bands have their music easily accessible from multiple sources. And then you go to soundcloud and you can spend hours listening to amateur recordings and some of them are excellent. I think if you want to make it as a band you need an incredibly charismatic frontman who can sell the band in addition to being an amazing singer. I've played in two metal bands that went nowhere but no surprise and I'm not bitter about it at all as I had zero expectations anyway. I'm also a writer with two self published books that are not selling at all and I'm not surprised considering that there are 1000's in their genres. I think if you want to make money as a writer a screenplay is your best chance at breaking through. As you've stated (in another video you posted) there are few good movie plots these days and possibly that is where you can make a sale if you genuinely have a good story.

[@DVSPress]

+An Evolving Ape I have written screenplays and had some experience in Hollywood - you probably have a better chance of winning the lottery if you don't already know people in the business. Plus plots are stale because marketing folks want them to be stale, not because there are no good screenwriters. There are literally tens of thousands of screenwriters writing good stuff. Also, while there may be many metal bands, lots of those quitting the business were at a fairly high or successful level. Those lower on the totem pole are likely doing worse. And yes, you are correct, the value decreases as supply increases.

[@AnEvolvingApe]

David Stewart Lionsgate recently has taken a beating in the market as have a lot of companies. Star Wars certainly has set the precedent for lousy story making profit but I'm guessing/hoping that the failing companies realize that they need to change things up.

[@DVSPress]

+An Evolving Ape That will happen once somebody else comes along and makes money with something original. As it is, remakes are a hedged bet - for 100 million dollars, you want as close to a sure thing as you can manage. So I don't expect blockbusters to change that much in the immediate future, but for all the smaller movies, I think once we start to see some risks pay off studios might change their tune. Outside of blockbusters the problem is the rigid hollywood format, especially for comedies anything considered "light."

[@kevinjoseph517]

as of 2006? myspace had like 4 million? bands, singers, dj s....millions...maybe it was 10 million.

[@dagnabbit6187]

No more CD/Record Stores anymore . As Stevie Nicks said in reference to song that kicked off MTV “ Video killed the radio star but Internet killed the every star !” Gene Simmons is right in spite of all the tech goofball deniers. There really is no structure and what you have now is chaos.

[@relaxingsounds1386]

Good jobs generally don't want you to leave for months at a time, and there's no point in leaving a good job to go on tour and come home broke. Basically.

[@LaCheleWallace]

THANK YOU! SEE! I knew I wasn't crazy. Everything you've said here is what I've been saying all along. Bottom line, everything costs. I like rock, but I'm partial to r&b... I hate when people say _Oh, they can just tour._ Just tour? People don't know how expensive that can be. If you're just a singer then you have to have a band which costs a lot because not only do you have to pay for them to play, you also have to pay to travel them around. Background singers don't sing for free. They have to be paid. What about the team who sets up the stage? Lighting, equipment, etcetera. Let's not forget about insurance. All of this adds up. So, no, they _cain't_ "just tour." I know this is an old video, but from Dec 2015 to April 2018, something I predicted several years ago has finally come to fruition - the discontinuation of cd's. By the end of this year, record companies will stop pressing them, which means stores will no longer sell them. _Well so what? Who still buys cd's?_ I hate when people say that because everyone's not on the Internet. It seems like they'd be, but they aren't - specifically the 45+ crowd. My theory about the whole _Napster_ & pirating thing is that perhaps a disgruntled record exec got fired for whatever reason and they taught somebody how to steal music via the Internet. I know they said a bunch of college students got together, decided that they no longer wanted to pay for music and voilà! Free music was at everybody's fingertips. Either way, I think it would've happened regardless. Remember in the late 90's there was a website called _imusic?"_ You could watch videos there. I remember watching DJ Quik's _Hand in Hand_ video there. Music in this generation is tricky, cheap and overall, it doesn't really mean anything...

[@bobbywizdum5248]

Exactly. Everyone the artist hires is going to get paid. When you add in the promtional costs as well touring is almost always going to come out negative unless you cut corners. Also the argument that recording is cheaper is also false. If youre actually trying to compose with real musicians and not lose your sonic range the bedroom just doesnt cut it. Thats what we are seeing. Tons of poorly produced songs that sound like one unseperated track because software and drum machines are cheaper than tape and engineers.

[@sbai4319]

I am proud to have invested in the music I love. As a fellow creative (photographer) I respect copyright, I pay for creative work that I like and I support the rights of creatives All power to you exceptional people.

[@riffism]

I'm in a pretty successful cover band and my guitarist is currently on an arena tour with a pretty big act. Most people think those players are making good money...but the reality is that he is playing 5 shows per week and making less money that he would have made if he were playing with my cover band only twice per week. He averages $100 per night...$2000 for the month...and the irony is that he would have made $2500 playing covers. So this account of players "quiting the business" is pretty accurate from what I have seen.

[@brianfuller757]

In 2023, still very true.

[@jamesbridges1107]

Blame Apple, when they told musicians, writers, and producers their music was worth a dollar, then free with a subscription, it was over...

[@DVSPress]

Most artists were ecstatic to sell their songs for $0.99 each. They were used to having kids just steal all of them and never buy a record ever.

[@BrockTheHeathen]

@@DVSPress Soon enough the "music" will all be created by AI and the profits will just transfer from the machines, directly into Sharon Osbourne's Cartier handbag. Sleep tight fellow musos!

[@13blackcats33]

I miss buying albums and cassettes, and the record stores. The internet killed way to much of our culture and things we love.

[@jazzpianoman01]

Musicians also get fed up with dealing with idiots in the business too that’s another big factor

[@BrockTheHeathen]

Not just the idiots but also the weirdos, psychopaths & addicts at every turn. After a while you really start to feel like you are starring in a zombie movie and the zombies are thisclose to breaking down your door.

[@jazzpianoman01]

@@BrockTheHeathen Yes agree.

[@Oortcloud67]

Why anyone not writing safe, mainstream McMusic would even attempt a career in the music industry is an absolute mystery.

[@undeadpresident]

passion for the music and ignorance of the reality that it doesn't pay

[@veka114]

I dont know, the last gig i went there was a band playing called Outright Resistance, never herd them before, i liked them, bought a shirt and bought both albums, we have to support all the good bands out there

[@Gumardee_coins_and_banknotes]

Shirley Manson and Courtney Love have said this for years for ALL genera of music.

[@CelestialWoodway]

Courtney Love got Kurt's money so she should sit down and shut up.

[@Video-Games-Are-Fun]

this was a great video. i had no idea how bad the industry was but even as a teen (i am 42 now) i knew that working in art of any kind was foolish if you wanted to eek out a living. you have to go to college or learn a trade or grind out a hard few years to get your startup going in a business. it is foolish to think you will get rich singing songs, or drawing stuff. yes SOME do but some beggars also get rich having their hands out panhandling at grand central 42nd st. train station.

[@andrelarocque5967]

A large issue is that with stagnating wages and overwhelming costs of living the money has to come out somewhere. The problem is not a consumer issue its a seller issue. A consumer will in fact consume because thats what they are good at if a product is packaged well. A seller will hoard assets. Because we have a trickle down economy art and science are the first casualties. What is the incentive to buy a CD? The market is saturated devaluing even great bands. This is compounded by the fact that the music industry is evolving poorly to meet musical demands. Computers and smartphones are built without Cd drives and good speaker systems so who is going to buy music that isn't packaged well for that platform if it could be anyway.

[@JesusChrist5000]

hmmm so if Sting were born in 1991 instead of 1951, Sting would have never have left his day job as a school teacher!

[@MechShark]

Recently read up on why Fair to Midland broke up after going bankrupt. Seems like a lot of smaller bands back in the 2000-2010 era are gone now because, despite touring actively, they simply couldn't recuperate costs. Sad. Was reminded of this video after coming across that news.

[@DVSPress]

I wasn't aware they quit

[@maaasssssmohamed]

A very interesting trend is the rise of fundraising services like Patreon. This may very well become the primary income source for artists in the future. The benefit is that the money goes straight to the artist, and not through record companies etc. I dont think illegal downloading will destroy the music scene, it will just change it - and maybe to something better.

[@DVSPress]

I hope there will be a new economy of music, but I don't know what form it will take. Something I don't mention is the escalating cost of living and escalating taxes that make it harder to live on a modest income, incentivizing artists to do something more profitable to have the same lifestyle that could be enjoyed on a smaller income a few decades ago. To counter the huge negative of downloads is also the massive decreasing of production costs for recording due to modern technology. I can record an album (and have) for just a modest equipment investment that sounds as good as a million dollar recording from 1990. That's pretty cool! Thanks for watching!

[@SilkyNoah]

Music is an under-appreciated and under-represented art, I think it's that simple. People refuse to pay for music and instead pirate it. People flat out don't care for it at all. People start wars over genres and fanbases. Quite a few modern "artists" really don't do much to impress. The list goes on....

[@DVSPress]

+Noah R Well said. There is still lots of good music out there (more than ever, really), but the business makes it harder and harder for artists to invest their time into their art and give up day jobs.

[@johnr8095]

+Noah R But why would they download it if they dont like it? They paid for it once. SO there was a market there.

[@SilkyNoah]

John R I'm talking about people who don't purchase any music and fail to see how pirating it will hurt the creator.

[@johnr8095]

+Noah R Once they stop paying for it, then it does become under appreciated. You need that money for it to survive as a business. THose demanding free music basically killed off small artists.

[@SilkyNoah]

John R Exactly

[@Frazer777]

The other thing is the ease at which music can be created. Years back, to make a recording of 'broadcast quality' you really couldn't do it at home. There would be a huge difference between a home recording and a pro master. Now, everything is easy just with a laptop and a cheap interface. Get to know your sequencing software or your DAW and you can create hifi sound with no real effort at all. I'm not saying the quality of the music is great but it sounds OK. So now there are millions of people producing banal, boring music albeit of good sonic quality, uploading this stuff and basically swamping everything with their mediocrity. I've heard so much rubbish on my girlfriend's Spotify account that wouldn't have seen the light of day 30 years ago but here it is, 'clogging' up the internet. When there's that much rubbish flying around it's no real mystery that music loses it's 'mystique' and value.

[@colsonpotter9333]

Sturgeon's Law- 99% of what's on the internet is crap.

[@trevor_mounts_music]

That's not how this works...go by a copy of logic for $200 and write a hit then

[@mattytwohatsmusic]

Agreed - I've made music for 25 years but when you actually do the math I don't think I've broken even. I've been lucky enough to work in music in various roles to pay my expenses though so I guess that's actually a win.

[@ipsurvivor]

The Rolling Stones used to shoplift and grab extra food at parties. It’s different now but the Golden Age is basically gone... Now the people who are doing it for the love of it will stay. I get it... but a lot of musicians through history didn’t get paid much...

[@inspectionnegross8695]

the girls in KITTIE had to go into day jobs because even after selling a few million records (and had some great success) couldn't tour as an international act and earn a living for them and their team.

[@DVSPress]

100% believe it. Steve Albini (who produced Nirvana's _In Utero_) wrote an article a long time ago on how, even with the industry at the height of its profits in the 1990s, artists weren't making any money even if they seemed successful.

[@charbax]

If only Google had cared. So shameful how Google don't monetize KZbin nor Google Music well enough for the independent artist. There should have been Patreon like features on KZbin and Google Music. There should have been indiegogo like features on KZbin and Google Music. When a musician plans to do an album he should be able to get it crowdfunded directly via Google. That would have helped artists make 10x more money online.

[@JuddWarrick]

Great video! Would love to see an update to this. Anything new in 2024? I am in the Americana genre and it seems like the average age of fans is older and till supports by buying Vinyl and CDs and showing up to shows.

[@pperez1224]

I have heard classicial musicians saying they where making $200 a day playing in the street ; so you can still live from it but don't expect more than a salary.

[@johnsaldivar2619]

Yup. You are right about the "Toxic" Classical Guitar world and Eliot Fisk etc. Very true.

[@attichatchsound-bobkowal5328]

I wonder if a lot of these niche metal bands would have made any more money 30 years ago. Digital democratized media is a double -edge sword: 30 years ago people might have paid for CDs, but would that matter if the band is too obscure to have a sizable following? A lot of these bands might not have garnered anywhere near the followings without the free exposure that social media and KZbin provided.

[@RVDENT]

As someone who toured in well known underground metal bands for years (Anaal Nathrakh being the last one): I have made more money producing electronic music for the past two years than I did in my whole career as a metal musician. Not like I made / am making big bucks anyway but the situation for actual bands is dire.

[@Aviv94]

I really love to sing and make music, until i realized there is 0 money in music, so I'm looking for 9 - 5 job, because i have wife and kids now

[@gt4748]

One perspective is that musicians/artists in history (last 50k years=modern humans) have never made much money/gained wealth in general. Success is a mirage.

[@igolfjtweetler4097]

You can still sell hard copy to the over 40s who don't download and want a product.

[@Lengsel7]

Not so much when medical insurance is so damn high.

[@jsrrrmg]

LOL.. Hey! I'm an over 40!! Ugh!! LOL. Nah.. I use streaming service and have downloads. But yeah! Also like a physical copy. I use Amazon where I can usually get a MP3 album with my hard copy and attach my those songs to my account for streaming! Win Win!

[@CelestialWoodway]

The average older person, not the hardcore music fans, lose interest in new music as they get older.

[@nomomofromnewjersey2864]

None of this matters to me. I play music. It just what I do. I don't care what the market does....I do it for me because it's who I am.

[@nate18268]

This is so sad. It seems like more than ever, small to medium size concert venues are getting harder to find, and a lot of them are booking very mediocre acts. Unless you're in LA or Nashville, you often have to go to a huge venue to see amazing acts. There's not a lot of in-between.

[@DVSPress]

Yes unfortunately mid-level acts can't afford to do the kind of touring they used to. Most European bands in any genre can't afford to tour the states anymore.

[@jessefillmore]

Thing is it's sad that a lot of talented , gifted people are going to go through life (you only get one) and never be heard or shine . Just like an Athlete gets saved and paid by their gift Artist and Musicians used to share this . Society doesn't care . It was better when there was only MTV and no internet . Hype media like radio and MTV helped keep a focus on what was out there . Now there is too many sites , podcast , stations to help create a hype push for a great record . Music has become disposable . Unless you are in with the Hollywood /hip hop/ sponsor BS , you might as well be a weekend warrior . I asked Rockstar to feature new music in GTA 5 and have radio station that featured new music each week . Never heard nothing back but they have a platform that music needs . Look at how many have listened to Johnny Paycheck cause of GTA 5 .

[@vinnykster]

Nobody is entitled to free music or any good or service. NOBODY

[@HamguyBacon]

eat shit, you are entitled to that. also you are wrong.

[@thema1998]

vinnykster Now that is stupid.

[@stuartrobinson6746]

They are if it's given freely. Otherwise I agree with you. Also though, nobody is entitled to a full time music career if their music isn't popular enough to pay them what they think their entitled to.

[@vinnykster]

Just because somebody CHOOSES to give you something does not mean you are entitled to it. Nobody has a right to just TAKE things that are not freely given to them. If im playing a gig and selling cds at my gig for $5, $10 or whatever you cannot just take them whether I am popular or not. You can simply choose to buy or not buy. Also just because an artist isn't big or famous etc does not mean fans are allowed to steal their music anytime they want. Same with any good or service. A new restaraunt isn't going to or has to offer free food just because they're not popular yet. Thats not how free markets work. Unless its given to you , you still must pay. Otherwise you ARE stealing. Free markets 101. Facts are stubborn

[@CelestialWoodway]

Turn on your radio and all the music is free. LOL Millions of people have never paid for any music even before computers.

[@RealKull]

In the Middle Age and in the Renaissance artists were not paid by the public, they were financed by rich people and/or institutions...paying for art or entertainment is a borgeouis concept

[@royenarefee5506]

i love love love this video, if you could please make another but about the world as a musician in 2024 and if things improved. I have seen the trend of metal/rock increasing in popularity

[@DVSPress]

Rock is still holding on but is far from dominant. What has changed is the entire model; Musicians have to find ways for fans to patronize them directly or they won't be solvent. Things like Patreon and crowdfunding help, but you REALLY cannot rely on live music and touring to pay the bills post 2020. It's just dead by comparison to when even this video was made.

[@joere-uploader5766]

if Musicians are quitting the industry, MORE POWER TO THEM but by the same token how are they going make money if no one buys music anymore.

[@ipsurvivor]

Could you raise your volume because the commercial nearly blew out my ear drums bra...

[@coreyshelp6463]

music is like a gold mine...there's only so much gold in a mine ....well since they came out with radios the musicians have been minning those gold nuggets...well after a hundred years ,the gold is harder to find....the songs weve listened to will be the same songs they listen to 100 years from now... we are living in culturally rich times....

[@zepoloidcreative7851]

SoooooTrooooo! For a long time now, the Internet has been a poison chalice for both musicians and authors because of the digital download revolution. Yes, I think for indie (DIY) musicians and authors exposure and financial success is negligible. For musos, it's either teaching music and/or playing solo in coffee bars, small pubs/bars, lounges because alot of pub/bar owners/managers WILL NOT pay top price for bands... so it's either solo or duo and play for a smaller purse.