My concerns about the Story and Lore in Destiny 2's Warmind Expansion

Destiny's lore is in a rocky place. Warmind has a chance to salvage a great deal of it but it could also pave the way for regression. In this video I discussed my concerns about the Story and Lore ahead of Destiny 2: Warmind.
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[@samwalton3720]

I wish our characters spoke. We used to and then we just stopped. Its worse when characters literally ask us a question and we just blankly stare back at them. Its so stupid.

[@SpyIsHigh]

RealSwalton true

[@calebforeman4010]

RealSwalton exactly. They added so many moments where our guardians is just staring at someone's face

[@goufr3540]

Even though it was still done poorly, but even your Guardian in D1 not only had a voice, but decent reactions to what ever the set piece is. As it has been since D2, its not only very annoying but several levels of bad writing when your Guardian is spoken to but either remains silent or have the Ghost speak for you in some stupid manner. Damn, Bungie's writing has severally dropped over the years and this really shows it and thats not even getting into continuity or basic story telling.

[@0Avi0]

I just recently picked up Destiny 2, and I personally enjoy that our characters don't speak. It was kind of off putting in the original game when my character spoke, I prefer the idea of a silent hero. Just like Link, from the legend of Zelda. I wish to give my Guardian a personality, rather than him having his own, which is further shared by every other guardian in the universe. I feel the real problem lies in the poorly written dialogue, every line spoken sounds unnatural and calculated to be easily understood by children. It feels like Disney wrote the script.

[@sinkurogami8743]

Agreed #unmuteourguardians

[@briannelson605]

Nokris disappointed Oryx by not purchasing enough silver

[@willbradbury]

Brian Nelson this is canon

[@TheToonSnoopy]

😂😂😂💀

[@marcov4190]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@orang375]

Brian Nelson Oryx: this is it son, you are being downgraded to a strike boss

[@CheapARod]

Brian Nelson I lost my shit reading this comment man!! 😂😂😂😂

[@tjsnyder55]

The hard truth. Tell it like it is Byf. You speak the truth and Bungie needs to hear it. I hope they choose to listen.

[@Solyolvimir]

Oh, they'll listen. It's just whether or not it'll be in one ear and out the other. I want them to do well with this so badly.

[@birbman506]

most likely the latter.

[@VinzKlortho]

I love Byf’s videos and I believe his (justified) criticism of the lore is the reason why he wasn’t invited to the summit.

[@snaggiz]

They have a tendency to ignore the fans

[@NerdiconPrime]

Thing is since they've partnered up with Activision they've made mistakes. Hidden Xperia did a great vid on this topic I highly recommend giving it a look. The gist of what he explains is that Bungie and their original work ethic back when they were partnered with Microsoft was focused on the player and their experience rather than Corporate and consumer business tactics to make shitloads of money. It's the reason Martin O'Donnell and Joseph Staten left

[@danieleaton1530]

I feel as if everyone is going to be disappointed with Warmind: The casuals: ‘Escalation protocol is too hard!’ The Hardcores: ‘Give us a challenge. I’ve speed ran the new raid lair whilst solving the rubies cube five times by now!’ The lore community: ‘Everything has now been retconned so that the casuals can understand it.’ The PVP community: ‘I’m now glory rank zero thanks to the new graviton lance and other exotics.’ The newbies: ‘What is a ‘Warmind?’

[@CJ-2315]

Daniel Eaton so true lol

[@williamjenkins7612]

Don't forget about that extra vault space! I need it for all the shaders that I will never use.

[@sagemaster413]

mostly everyone: "wtf bungie lootboxes again"

[@roar104]

william jenkins all 100 spots aren't gonna make a difference

[@KjcKiesh]

I totally agree about the Nokris thing All the previous big Hive Gods had significant story elements, had their own expansions, and made their presence known throughout the grimoire. Whereas this is just like "Warmind: The DLC about Rasputin. Oh yeah and here's Nokris too have fun". Just way too casual about it, like he's just another Prime Servitor or something I appreciate them giving him an online lore tab but he needs MORE

[@lorcan0c]

Sadly I can already say with certainty that "strikes as campaign missions" will persist... USGamer has an article showcasing screenshots from Warmind's first two missions. Mission 1, "Pilgrimage", shows the player Guardian facing off against some kind of Hive Knight boss near an orange hologram in a Warmind chamber of some kind. This same scenario shows up in the DestinyTheGame website page for Warmind, as promotional material for a strike mission "Will of the Thousands". So, sadly... yeah, they're recycling content again. I'm not happy about it either. It doesn't help that the descriptor for the other Strike, "Strange Terrain" implies another re-use. The description says we need to stop Nokris from channelling "more power to his worm god". The word "more" implying they'll be taking the Curse of Osiris approach of "Hey, that bad guy you stopped already is up to his old tricks again. Go stop him again." And if I can go on a bit of a side-tangeant here? I'm weary to the point of frustration with the game's attempts to lampshade how repetitive its core content loop is. It's all over the Public Events and it's maddening. On Titan, Sloane will constantly bring up that "you've done this before", or joke about how many Hive Rituals you've disrupted. Failsafe has similar attempted comedy, bringing up your "many successes", and how she can predict with a high degree of accuracy what the outcome of a public event will be. Same with Devrim and his laid back casual behaviour about public events. Acknowledging "wow, this is super tedious and repetitive, right?" doesn't make it any LESS repetitive. If anything it's just making the problem all the more apparent. Anyway, sorry for rambling. I'm one of those "99% of the Lore Community" types you mentioned, and I had to get that off my chest.

[@neostrax3646]

lorcan0c do you have the link to the article

[@pracitus]

lorcan0c Bungie's lazyness

[@doozer3297]

lorcan0c you had to do the strikes between the story in d1. No difference. Quit crying or quit playing. Every game recycles content. Fortnite has he same damn map it’s had since the beginning and they dropped a meteor on it and now it’s still the same map...recycled...with a different look to an area on it. Call of duty is one big recycled game.

[@ikearubegoldbergmachine6304]

Nomad fornites free, destiny up to this point if you bought the base game and 2 dlc is $100

[@doozer3297]

MASSIVE LEGEND, HERE you didn’t have to buy the dlc. Nobody forced you. They did say the strikes would be worked into the story before the last dlc released. I mean because if everyone crying they can’t even raise the level requirement in the nightfall because people that want to be cheap asses won’t buy the dlc and cry because they can’t do the same stuff as someone that paid.

[@ZDEyE]

I can easily see Byf leaving Destiny forever, if Bungie messes up again

[@ZDEyE]

SirCreepsAlott yeap, omg Bungie we are all disappointed so far

[@ZDEyE]

SirCreepsAlott exactly it’s already big enough reason for Byf to quit Destiny overall

[@pulsevzero]

SirCreepsAlott If only the D2 apologists could see that.

[@davesmith8644]

ZDEyE honestly all he does is bitch. Let him peace out and it’s one less declining channel whining ...

[@pulsevzero]

Speak of the devil

[@ManTheManLV255]

I wish Bungie would get their shit together.

[@simonaube8042]

Deon L Don't we all

[@osmiumqueen]

It’s not even getting it together. It’s getting it together and KEEPING it together.

[@Frostwisperer]

Deon L we all do

[@morganhickman1212]

Deon L hell yes

[@deavenshank1376]

no you mean glue the shit together to make it a bigger shit lol

[@socksnbox]

Bungie: "The events of D1 and D2 were all a dream that was fabricated by the Darkness. Destiny 3 is when your Guardian is freed from their Darkness-induced slumber by the Traveler and their Ghost." Byf and the entire Lore Community: *"WHAT?!"*

[@arielmoon4021]

Rey Mitchell it was all a massive Vex simulation!! It doesn't need to make sense!

[@arktesla2875]

Nigh Hendry It's always a Vex simulation

[@ObsidianDragon7030]

Soooooooo Warframe then? Oh Dear god I hope not......

[@ricksattler682]

And, that's why you have to lose all your vault items again 'cuz the Darkness ate it. And Destiny 3 won't have a vault because making content is hard.

[@Jes4jen]

Wow this was such a beautifully written video, when you speak about the weight of the lore as a hunter cloak oath it just perfectly illustrates what this universe and this lore means to us. Thank you for creating this. It is so perfectly well done.

[@ArbiterKen]

I'm interested to see how they end up handling Nokris as well; his absence was one of my biggest questions in Destiny 1. I personally liked that theory that the Vex erased him from existence, even though it has some pretty big holes in it. I also want to know if labeling him as an NPC in that press release was a mistake or not. Imagine if he tried selling us some shitty blue quality items c:

[@roohni2226]

Rosie the Marauder he’s gonna sell some *_rare blue quality sparrows_*

[@nightshade1124]

I would love it if Nokris became kinda like Calus. Someone within the Destiny universe that looks at guardians like "Oh hey, these guys a getting pretty strong. Imma use them for my own devices til it suits me to stab them in the back!" Cause THAT would be fun. Especially if Nokris is somehow tied to Savathun. Learning how to be cunning from the Cunning one herself?

[@ThatGuy_212]

Morslupus well they already killed his father that banished him, also his brother, and his sisters. I dont know how much more he would need them to do.

[@officalwolfrevolution7766]

Okay, there is one thing I noticed that wasn't talked about, I'm going by my stop time of 10:53 as that is when topics started changing, and that would be during the mission Fury on Io, when we are going to turn on the drill at Excavation Site I, our Ghost asks, and this is verbatim, "So, uh… Are we going to see Rasputin? Or is this some other Warmind?" Ikora reponds with, "There is only one Warmind, but Rasputin is not here on Io. I believe he's been marooned on Earth ever since his network fragmented." So there is that.

[@blamelessphysician]

OfficalWolfRevolution that's a good catch. I thought the story was there's one Warmind *now* but there were more in the past. In D1 I recall Ghost saying of Rasputin "He's everywhere now", implying that he's taken over other Warmind territory since we woke him up.

[@RichterfanReborn89]

I always interpreted as he was the last one left that they know of... But even if we take it another way, how does ikora not know Rasputin escaped his isolation on Earth after we activated the arrays in the Cosmodrome?

[@officalwolfrevolution7766]

Well there is the Dust Palace Strike with the Flayers. We don't know what info they got. For all we really know, the Cabal knew of Rasputin and found a way to fragment his network. But that is just a theory

[@jonmkl]

OfficalWolfRevolution I remember hearing this on my first playthrough and being like “ni🅱️🅱️a what?!” it was at that point I was like “oh sh*t, retcons.. we’re in trouble.”

[@patrikhjorth3291]

The way I figure is that Rasputin created an instance of itself in Charlemagne's old mainframe on Mars after we activated the satcom array, and that instance then got cut off somehow. But, we'll see.

[@pemyoung1983]

Man Byf - amazing summary. As someone who likes to learn more about these crazy universes, but frequently makes the mistake of ignoring the stories within games, I really appreciate your efforts to make these stories more amazing. So from the Game Lore Nerd AND the Plays the Campaigns Too Quickly sides of me - thank you. Keep it up brother!

[@iamthepope9167]

Byf I’m a long time fan. You have a history of posting great quality content with engaging narratives. You’ve also been a needed respite from the salty, bitter and disloyal streamers and content creators out there; as well as from the vocal angry community. I understand that a negative tone is an easy way to get likes and subs and sycophantic comments, but for many of us you’ve been a breath of fresh air away from that salty environment and we choose your channel over others for this reason just as much as the quality of your videos. I understand as a fellow human that you felt slighted at not getting tapped for the Bungie Community Summit, and I admit I was flabbergasted as well. That said I encourage you to rethink your stated intention of a critique campaign against Bungie and Destiny 2. Respectfully, your tone has changed since this event and for viewers like me- this is unfortunate. In this video, all of the plotholes and story contradictions and retcons that you’re pointing out have existed for quite some time (months or more). To suddenly point them out under the guise of “here’s all the stuff we hate that Bungie should change for Warmind narratively speaking” a day before Warmind releases is not constructive and comes across as hollow and more of a hit piece than genuine. In addition you are making assumptions about topics like Nokris that the community isn’t in a position to criticize yet. If Nokris is a strike boss, who’s to say he dies there and isn’t simply being set up for a major role in the future? Oryx was basically a solo strike boss that we “killed” in Regicide- and his story war far from over. While it may appear that a critique campaign against Bungie is rewarding (judging from the invite list to the Summit), please don’t go too far in getting even. Stick to criticisms “from here on out” instead of dredging up past grievances that up to now you’ve been withholding commentary on. Many of us agree loyal content creators like yourself should have been the first ones invited as opposed to the Destiny directory turncoats, you are not alone in this sentiment. I game to de-stress, and I want to enjoy my hobby, though. Channels and streamers with a pattern of negative and clickbait titles (“Here’s Why We All Should Think Destiny/Bungie Sucks!”) go straight to my block list and never come out. I can make up my own mind and assess my own complaints about my entertainment- I go to content creators for expanded enjoyment of said entertainment. I’m just a drop in the bucket but from a fan standpoint I wanted to express my concerns about the current direction of your channel while they unfold (as opposed to waiting months or more) so you could factor in the perspectives of viewers like me as you plan toward the future. Hope to keep seeing you starside, Guardian.

[@nealos66]

This was a kind, honest and well written response that accurately reflects my reaction to this video. Thank you for saving me the time and effort. Releasing this commentary on the eve of the Warmind DLC drop is bad timing to say the least and suspect at best.

[@polloikokoroi]

Perhaps it is time to move to other games for Byf. This response to this video is excellent.

[@SM-cg2dc]

Lots of good points, D2 just feels wrong to me. I bought the two expansions with D2, but if they don’t pull it together... I’m not shelling out more money for the fall expansion! I wish they would have just kept going with D1, it breaks my heart to think of all the precious minutes of my life I poured into D1. All gone...

[@dancarpenter6321]

S M couldn’t agree more. I was so hyped for D2, especially since I put in well over 1000 hours into D1, and it just fell flat. They made everything in the game so easily obtainable. When I bought D1 (the week TDB launched) I remember my friend telling me “the real game doesn’t start until you hit level 20.” I didn’t quite understand what he meant until I got there. There was always something to grind for. Now, with D2, I had everything I needed within 2 weeks of launch. There was nothing left to keep me coming back every week. The exotic changes coming up look to be good, but I’m not convinced (yet) that Warmind is going to save D2.

[@ChaosLoungeGaming]

Destiny 2 was designed to fail in my honest opinion due to the limited time they had. They sacrificed it

[@CrypticSubterranean]

D2 isn't worthy to be a DLC for D1. It's a completely hollowed out shell of a game. What on Earth were they thinking? And now we have "it's going to get better with the next patch" over and over again. D2 should have given us totally brand new supers, totally brand new enemies and a game that had the systems of play we loved from D1 and the depth of lore and quests from D1 that made Destiny unique.

[@ChaosLoungeGaming]

CrypticSubterranean I guess losing the light and regaining it, they could have done that

[@CrypticSubterranean]

I feel like they wasted a huge opportunity- the Traveler is awake after centuries of being dormant, blasting out his Light into the universe; and yet in the game nothing at all has changed. There's been literally no effect of this world-changing event. It would have made perfect sense for that blast of light to imbue us with a brand new ability.

[@johneldas2009]

I like reading lore

[@TheSimhook]

Got a bad feeling Nokris won't say anything or have any speaking lines because they like doing that with bosses now.

[@Incbuba]

Simeon Davis I know, it’s crazy how neither calus or ghaul speak

[@roohni2226]

Incbuba well they do actually wtf

[@Incbuba]

Roohni my statement was sarcasm

[@TheSimhook]

Incbuba I was speaking primarily about strike bosses. I suppose it was very rare for strike bosses to speak to us in d1 as well, but it'd suck to have a more character as big as this one to njot have any seaking lines.

[@laginw]

isn't it even funnier that this Hive god speak English, i mean wtf? a millions old species speaking English? they dont even care about lore, not giving care about any little details to the game, Hive and Cabal should have their owned language in the story, that shit doesn't make sense af

[@christopher2684]

I'm so glad there are people like you around, Thank you.

[@CRKerekanich]

Thank you, for continuing the fight for the lore. In Destiny I never really understood how complex the lore was until I started actively reading the Grimoire cards as I unlocked them, only to be confused by some aspects and come to the lore community on KZbin for clarification. D2 has been a struggle, but I hope things improve and also hope that more lore community members will be specifically included in the next summit.

[@primarchsam2774]

Im glad you brought up Nokris being a strike boss i love the hive and their lore and am concerned about how they are going to handle Nokris and Xol. hopefully they do them justice :)

[@motesquid]

I understand people's concerns with strike that are part of the story, but I think that sometimes it's a good thing. Sometimes I'll be playing destiny 2 and suddenly I'll remember "oh remember that Ghaul guy??? He means nothing anymore but I remember him." The same thing I think of when it comes to Panoptes. Huge story characters, who you spent 2 minutes fighting and unless you like restarting your characters over and over, you haven't seen them since. If they had made Ghaul and Panoptes into full fledged strikes instead of 2 minute story missions you never revisit, that would be really nice.

[@jamesalfred9947]

Squid117 that makes sense, you want the boss to be big and bad and strikes our way to do that but look at what they did with the taken King he was big and bad news also in the story mission they could have done something similar to that with Ghaul

[@motesquid]

To be honest, I wasn't huge into Destiny 1 like am destiny 2 I came in late and couldn't play much, and honestly I beat him that one time in the story and that was it, but he had a raid to go with him.

[@williamjenkins7612]

I see that point, Skolas could have really benefited from this as well. But if their going to do that approach more they need to make the strikes harder (imo). You know, like with the modifiers we had in D1 or maybe make the Story strikes the Nightfalls. Which brings to mind another point, Why can't Nightfalls just have normal match making. I don't want to spend 20 minutes looking elsewhere for people that may or may not actually invite someone

[@vincentkaiser4047]

Seeing YOU question the story you told and defended for literally YEARS just hurts...

[@HammerdWalrus]

Love that you're telling off the Narrative Team by using something that directly relates to them.

[@Marina-bc2dc]

Bungo really does need to pull their heads out of their asses and listen to what the community wants. Meaning all the communities. If they don’t listen what’s the point of playing their game yknow

[@masterofthelyokianmonsters2886]

Who cares - they did ask the leaders of the community what they wanted and the leaders all said they were excited for it.

[@Thijs_Ent]

Yes, hokage-sama.

[@pracitus]

Who cares - yeah, they will never listen, just look at the new eververse system...

[@FreshMetal80]

The problem with that is that all of the communities want different things. Some people want lore-heavy strikes and story missions. Others want PvP to be the focus. Some want max power to be obtainable over time through any activity, and others want to lock max power behind content that only the most hardcore no-lifers can obtain. Some people want the weapon system to stay is it is, others want Destiny 1's weapon system back. There's no way to please the entire Destiny community.

[@laginw]

anything they wonna do is upto Activision decision anyway, so if they listening, they still cant do shit about it, just listen and nothing improve

[@RockerboiProduction]

Man the intro plus your voice just gets me hyped up for another video

[@jamesthomas2410]

I wish our characters had some type of background with which race you pick like before you "revive" the first time depending on your race your motives and where you start differ e.g:I'm an awoken a single or two stories missions with me starting at the reef and ending up on earth for some reason like crash landing and then proceed with how destiny one started and i would like V.A's too

[@EatThePath-7]

I believe part of it was going to be the case in the OG Destiny 1 plot (before the big rewrite at the start of 2014), iirc Awokens would get a similar start that you mention (you had to escape from the Reef for whatever reason), Exos would get the start we have in D1 for every character, and i don't remember about Humans, maybe there wasn't info about them. Personally, i don't mind having an ambiguos/mysterious background, but it would have been cool to see that original idea.

[@jamesthomas2410]

Thanatos Gwyn yea same here i just feel we would've felt more connected to the world that way and it could've added motive to what we were doing

[@markgroves6838]

Always listen to your lore videos on the way Byf. You're a real inspiration and I love your work ❤ it makes a 3 hour drive bearable

[@ArchivalMind]

I'm agreed on CoO's problems and shortcomings. I say shortcomings because that's a much nicer than what I had earlier. The whole Charlemagne submind thing I can write off. Perhaps certain subminds are stronger to the point where they seem like Warminds. I don't know... The whole Rasputin-Mars thing is one of the things I hope gets explained. Like how Nokris and Xol got on Mars. I know what the Grasp of Nokris is and their backstory... But I need to know HOW they got there. I need to know more about the Collapse, I just have to. At least SOME info would be great. Perhaps Nokris will escape at the end of the strike. There's a shot of him teleporting away. As much as I hate the Hive, there's something we need to know. Maybe he could be in the Raid Lair, but that isn't based on anything we know. We'll see. I have ideas for future DLCs and what they will be based on info we have. We'll see how well they match up when they come out.

[@platinumgaming2356]

Promethean, Archival Mind Nice seeing you here. Ready for the soundtrack of warmind?

[@ArchivalMind]

Platinum gaming yeah

[@DeusExAngelo]

Promethean, Archival Mind Promethean, Archival Mind Here’s my speculation on why Rasputin is on Mars despite why being the Warmind Of Earth. Remember that Rasputin is considered the “First Among Equals” and that it seems (unless I am forgetting any lore that says otherwise) all the Warmind were developed by Clovis Bray on Mars. Now unless someone on or the whole narrative team screws up and forgets about established events in D1 again, and says Rasputin was always on Mars, my educated guess would be Rasputin is returning to his roots and place of birth. It would make sense if we follow up from D1 were he establishes himself on the red planet, and was broadcasting or transferring his consciousness over to secure valuable Golden Age technology. Not only that, but if Clovis Bray was the birthplace of the Warminds, I feel it’s logical to assume Rasputin would go to great lengths to protect his birthplace for numerous reasons. Now whether or not BUNGIE will do this, I am not sure. As for Nokris and Xol, I actually have a hypothesis as to why they might on Mars as well. It’s known that Mars was one of key locations the Traveler visited just before human astronauts discovered it there. My guess is given the information from the lore drop written by Nokris is that perhaps he and Xol had been tracking the Traveler themselves with the hopes of cornering, ambushing, and consuming it’s power so they could rise to the top of their respective pantheons. If this happened, Nokris’s transgressions would be nullified and he would no longer be forgotten and instead stand at the pinnacle of the Hive Pantheon whilst Xol would not longer have to fear being consumed by Yul. However, I hazard to guess that their ambush didn’t work out so well and the Traveler trapped them in the polar ice caps where they might have been waiting. That or the Traveler never was even aware of their presence and as they laid in wait on Mars, they were trapped in the Ice Caps as the Traveler terraformed the planet. That’s just my best guesses though.

[@bengale9977]

Promethean, Archival Mind, poor Charlemagne not just is he dead but he was stripped of his role. It's like learning that the Cayde and Ikora are just sub members of the Vanguard and Zavala is the only real member.

[@ArchivalMind]

Ben Gale except the Vanguard are more developed while Charlemagne was barely mentioned.

[@VirgilMustDie3x]

I said this before D2 launched when they said they were removing the grimoire, it was just to give them the option to rewrite stuff for their own ease. It's why I'm almost certain they'll never put the grimoire back in in any form, it sucks.

[@hlonghi]

I have the impression that Carmack's famous quote "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." is gospel for Destiny's developers. Such a missed opportunity, Destiny's universe is so amazing...

[@briandeclan8282]

Yup, thanks for addressing my concerns for good storytelling. Feels great to have you making videos like this.

[@jrodriguez2133]

Thanks for saying something about this had a discussion about this in my fire team I hate when people just follow like sheep instead of hey that wasn't what was said before.

[@annalireth]

I still remember from past interviews Mike Laidlaw & Mark Darrah, creative director (former now) & executive producer of the Dragon Age series which also created a huge World and lore, How continuity was a big must in their minds and BioWare hired someone (a journalist) to map all Thedas' lore (being release afterwards in a small version in form of books, Dragon Age: The World of Thedas vol. 1 & vol. 2) to be a guide to the development & writer team around Dragon Age 2 & Inquisition. I don't recalled reading if Bungie has something similar in a small or big scale, but this give assurance to us, player, that continuity is a big thing, that story will be preserved, that they care as much as we do.

[@Hamuelin]

Well, I come from the future to tell you all that they fucked it. There was some fantastic potential but virtually none of it was explored. Rasputin was weak and barely there, Ana Bray whilst not awful was underdeveloped, Zavala was just there and felt weird, Xol was a humongous let down. The story skipped between plot points with little to no explanation. There was no tension, nothing at stake. The Almighty Rasputin did virtually nothing despite its super weapon status. Bungie are two for two on unquestionably ruining and/or doing a major disservice to already established lore.

[@Reovyn]

To be honest my biggest hopes are for the fall expansion, I'll love whatever piece of coherent lore I get from Warmind and then wait for the big DLC where they have time to apply the feedback from the summit

[@kevincollier2938]

Byf: we need compelling strike stories also Byf: Nokris is too important for a strike story

[@williamjenkins7612]

you know damn well he's gonna be a strike. I agree tho, him and Xol should be raid but no, we got to back to that ship. again. You know how you fix this, repair The Almighty and turn it around blow Mars the fuck up. KA POW!!!! I love strikes but the lack of them and lack of modifiers disturb me.

[@vlak7137]

Thanks for posting this. It's always good to hear a well-thought-out critique rather than just more bashing-for-views videos. Looking forward to your next one too!

[@redlucia2742]

I believe that bungees narrative team should consult the lore scholars and the chroniclers at the Ishtar collective when making the plot of expansions, it seems that we care more than they do.

[@iQuantom1]

Thankyou for finally hitting the nail on the head.... me and my long time gaming buddy i met in Destiny 1 are seriously worried.... The Lore is why we still play Destiny. Its what brought us together...

[@tylerlynn69]

Gonna be that guy byf but noxris being a strike boss makes sense by the lore. Logic of the sword right? Kill to prove and gain strength? So why would we, guardians who killed oryx the god that killed his god, need to go through a raids worth of trouble to put down the son of a god? Personally it makes sense.

[@DancingTiger]

Tyler Lynn but we lost our access to sword logic when we lost the light

[@nercksrule]

You seem to be forgetting about a character called Crota...

[@TheMrLuigibro]

Well, Crota did come before we fought Oryx. Even Oryx's daughters were in the same raid as his and not their own. Either way if Nokris does become an NPC like they have hinted at, it would make sense that he is a strike boss I guess, seeing as raid bosses are generally killed for that sweet precious loot lol.

[@toxicmachine1895]

Tyler Lynn Well, Nokris does have a worm god with him and they’re teamed up, so I would see why it’d take a raid to beat them.

[@MortalWombatI]

I think it has more to do with how making him a Strike boss gives off the impression that he's a minor one-shot villain, even though he SHOULD be the most evil thing in the system since Oryx. Crota, the Daughters of Oryx, and Oryx himself all existed in a Raid format, and the strike Savathun's Song is literally just us facing off against a CONDUIT for Savathun. One tiny fragment of her power. Saying that her nephew(?) is only as strong as a TINY fragment of her own power makes it seem really underwhelming from a lore perspective, and to a lesser extent even a gameplay perspective. I'd like a Hive God to have much more grandeur than what is essentially just a buffed up Hive turret in Savathun's Song.

[@Warlock-6127]

The most passionate and constructive channel in Destiny. Byf, what you said about the hunter cloak and bungie making vows was the most incredible thing I have ever heard regarding this game. My mind is blown.

[@MrTechmannnn]

It's sad because everything you don't want to see(everything that was in Osiris dlc) will be in this dlc exactly because bungie did not have enough time to make changes or they did not try. Another non cohesive story.

[@williamjenkins7612]

sad but very true. we're stuck with making head-canon

[@shawnlafontaine2320]

Getting the story right, and hitting the Lore target, with bullseye precision, is a HUGE part, towards fundamental immersion, in this game. It has to be given the importance, and correct detail, that it deserves. I agree with you Byf, 100%.

[@stljohnny101]

I wanted you to be wrong so badly... but you were so absolutely correct in the worst possible way. :(

[@TZinger3]

As for the R.O.I story-line I looked at it and said it made sense. You went from one threat to the next in terms of what needed to be taken out more. Becoming and Iron-Lord was just something extra thrown in as a "well-done guardian" from my point of view. As for inconsistencies in the lore, yea..definitely agree and in addition to this I get that the game is constantly evolving and some things changing so that other things can be made to happen just like in comics. It's gonna be a process, things will be changed and redone quite a bit more maybe before it's over..but when it finished and "fixed" looking forward to all the vidoes

[@simonaube8042]

That analogy to the steak is literally the Destiny franchise in a nutshell.

[@ismorezro]

you reminded me why I didn't pre-ordered the expansions... I really hope this gives us a reason to grind and learn more about the story of Destiny. I'll see you starside my friend!

[@jasnotta519]

The real concern is when is Papa Console and Mama Byf gonna become a thing?

[@Loganmlego]

Thanks for the mental image...

[@heckeon]

He is really loud and obnoxious sometimes, but he does have good content/info... He summarizes really bland posts quickly and efficiently

[@calebforeman4010]

Lord of Donuts "hey.....whatsss...up...you...guys...rick kackisssss... here."

[@joshuamuriel3764]

his name is dick cock lol

[@Lrbearclaw]

Wow. So much Edge. Coming into Byf's comments and start insulting his friends. Good God, you guys are idiots...

[@metroidmel6801]

Agreed, especially with “story strikes”. Furthermore story missions should be allowed to be separately replayed at any time as many times as we want like in D1. Not a single campaign mission randomly selected by Ikora non chronologically each week...

[@DjGalvanic]

Byf needs to be hired by destiny to be in control of the story/lore of expansions

[@MirandaAndUh]

>hired by Destiny

[@350dolladee]

Keep up the good work Byf!!! D1 vet been checking your videos forever..

[@reclaimeddead]

Woah! Woah! Stop! 13:54 THATS NOKRIS? Talk about disappointing character design. The bastard looks like a super pissed off grandma that found dog shit at her doorstep.

[@reclaimeddead]

SirCreepsAlott boi 😂😭💀

[@toxicmachine1895]

SirCreepsAlott I mean, it would make sense for him to look like oryx since he’s his son, but Crota didn’t look like him and his daughters definitely didn’t look like him.

[@Solyolvimir]

I actually really like Nokris's design. I bet he looked far different when still connected to his family, but after a pact with Xol and different practices, he changed and developed into what he is now. Perhaps a far cry from what his power used to be, or perhaps a form more suited for using magic and summoning rather than brute force and strength. He looks so much like an old style Lych or necromancer.

[@maxelixyr]

tbh his appearence is the least of my concerns. If he is killed for good in just a strike imma riot

[@JJMomoida]

That's regular hive design for you.

[@morganhickman1212]

At 15:14 i just wanted byf to let it out with a "f**k yes it is!!!". I love you byf😀

[@diatomshells]

When I don’t know what I am reading, and when I don’t know when I can trust it. < There are too many possibilities if there are not clear lines or definitions. This can literally be called gaslighting. It’s not on purpose sometimes but for me it’s not a healthy way of communication or writing. Obscurity is only good for so long, eventually you have to bring the reflections into a structured form. If you don’t you LOSE your audience; you lose your girl.

[@diatomshells]

Demp Dawg Whatever your provocations towards the term or towards women does not negate its effects. It exists, it’s a psychological tactic intentional or not, doesn’t mean a damn thing in relation to its truth. We all have our own subjective realities towards things and you just revealed yours.

[@williamjenkins7612]

I agree. Ambiguity is great but you need to progress. Take Game of Thrones for example, If Bungie ran that you'd have only seen the whitewalkers in the first couple episodes and never see them nor would they be referenced again. People look forward to that apex moment when they find out the "big reveal" But it seems Bungie has yet to do that aaaannnd were 2 games, 6 expansions, 4 years into this mess.

[@diatomshells]

william jenkins Agreed. Seems like they need guidance but they aren’t going to get that with what they already have unfortunately. Why? Habits. For me it is only logical because humans can regress very rapidly after having success. D1’s success clouded their perception of reality and there is no doubt that can absolutely happen again. Proper guidance is hard to come by though. Content creators and player feedback can only go so far imo.

[@sergioaguilar6460]

Your awesome bro I left destiny 2 a few months ago I loved your message your bringing too everyone I am hoping for the best on warmind

[@darthroxas8045]

i recently came back, for Iron Banner, im excited for Warmind, and the new event... but don't have my hopes up....

[@khilorn]

Id be ok with a little stretching. But i don't like knots. Or stretched far enough to "break" lore.

[@account4345]

I remember the first two or so weeks when Rose of Iron came out, the Plaguelands were so damn cool and the hype was insane! Couldn’t wait to grind up to max light. Destiny 2 hasn’t given me that feeling so far, I still regret not getting the Outbreak Prime, miss those days.

[@Drathro81]

Not sure what the purpose of this video is. Fair comment and criticism on CoO and Bungie’s issues of accuracy and “folklore”. If you’d released this a while ago then it’d be open for worthwhile discussion. Warmind is out in 2 days; at this point - wait to see the content.

[@TheSweetpea0711]

Phil Cairns my thoughts exactly.

[@invisibleking726]

Because in a previous video he told up that he'd be releasing another video discussing why his Osiris Vol. 2 video was taken down and changes to the lore.

[@eCroz_8611]

Byf will give it a chance like the majority of Destiny fans here. I think the underlying issue here that we're all concerned about is both DLC 1 & 2 were most likely in development concurrently. In one of the first vids released about Warmind, Vicarious Visions said it's been over 2 years in development. So assuming Bungie oversaw both tracks of development to ensure consistency, there's a chance Warmind isn't far off of the CoO vibe. By the time the community feedback was made known concerning CoO, Warmind was already in it's final stages of development. Realistically, there's way too much lore here & major characters to tell the story it deserves in a campaign that will most likely be 5 - 6 missions & a couple of hours worth of content. Rasputin, Ana Bray, Xol & Nokris could easily deserve a Taken King's size expansion each to properly tell their stories.

[@hardfugoo1]

you slow or something?

[@pizzazwned5772]

Phil Cairns you must be new here

[@nateandpaul7007]

Man I completely agree with you on the whole continuity issue. In d1 I would spend hours reading the books of sorrows watching your videos listening to focused fire chat but every since that comic came out then they said the grimoire was folk lore. I have not had any passion to do much lore stuff. I still love your videos but I completely understand your frustration

[@maria510flores]

Destiny 2 has great potential for Lore and expanding unanswered questions or thoughts from the 1st destiny game that we as a community have. I too do hope they make a step forward on the story and piece it together as they should have from the beginning. I'm excited for the new DLC War-mind, but my expectations are low. This way I won't be as disappointed.

[@creeperchaser]

Still looking forward to this dlc

[@pracitus]

allan edge get ready to be disappointed

[@Michael-hn5bw]

Your concerns line up exactly with my own and sadly I foresee all of them coming to fruition.

[@thesteampunkinc]

Hola fellow homosapiens

[@dollietheaddict8340]

Hello other homosapien

[@FailingGamers]

You absolutely summed up my frustrations with this game perfectly! Brilliantly put

[@NemPlays]

360 squad.

[@aweseman]

In terms of strikes, it was my understanding that they took the strikes and added them to the story so the general audience would understand what to do in them better, not the other way around

[@SHIRO_111]

I miss the bungie from halo :( imagine what that bungie could make with Destiny........ Sadly we have Bungievision

[@Gin-dono]

My theory as to why our guardians don't speak, and it wouldn't surprise me if other people have thought of this as well. The last thing our guardians said was "Don't think I have much of a choice." This was after ghost asked us if we thought we could kill the vex "god" in the black garden. Something in that fight, or perhaps the teleportation that brought us back to mars left our guardian catatonic. The heart of the black garden was draining the traveler of it's light from so very far away, who's to say what it did to us being right next to it? This isn't my way of defending us being silent throughout the rest of the game or in D2, just a neat little explanation I thought up around TTK. I wish we'd hear our guardian speak for themselves again.

[@SkepticalRaptor]

Maybe my browser hates me, but why is this video in 360p? Did I suddenly time warp back to 2008? :)

[@Ikram_rudboii]

same

[@birdsamora9925]

yep

[@jaccomusic12]

It sometimes take a while for a video to reach a watchable 1080p. The platform will first upload the lower rez versions, while also working on the higher rez videos. Nothing wrong with your browser, just KZbin having a slow day :)

[@phineas7423]

its doing the same thing for me

[@kitsamkit2346]

Michael Simpson first world problems. (Sigh). I'm just glad 144p is an option

[@Kahiyao]

I really believe that the Infinite Forest can hold the key to correcting so many errors in the lore. The forest has the ability to produce actual beings and entities whom we can commune with, battle with, or even simply observe and behold. Not only this, but if the lore were to allow these beings to exit the forest and infiltrate our current reality then we now have a way to likewise intertwine with other realities. We ourselves in game could actually have an effect of correcting these inconsistencies ourselves just like Osiris has. I have no way of knowing the methods in which we use the Infinite Forest, but its looming presence offers food for thought on the matter.

[@d3athandr3birth69]

I've got to say, after watching tons of your videos and loving the content, this is one of the weaker videos. You and many others have outlined these concerns throughout Curse of Osiris. I've liked those videos. This unfortunately feels like forcing out a video with the words "concern" and "warmind" to generate interest. I know that is not the mindset that generates your content but it is feeling put off by this video

[@dingse3_]

Brandon Powell Negativity = £££$$$

[@TheSweetpea0711]

Agreed

[@damianortiz3052]

Well said all around! What drew me to this game was the story and the amazing possibilities of its universe, and to see them rewrite the incredible lore and story they had set up in D1 doesn't feel right at all. I really hope this new DLC gets us back on track.

[@afallencheetah6610]

360p squad!!!

[@djnagi7675]

I don't know how it will go but here's one way I'd like to see Warmind play out: We're made aware of the impending arrival of the darkness (pyramid ships) so we need to recruit Rasputin to have any chance of winning, so recruiting Rasputin will be the end goal. To do that we need to find a way to communicate with him so we need to help Anna Bray in finding the Clovis Bray facility. The deal Nokris made with Xol involved Nokris weakening the Traveller's defenses among other things, which not only leaves the Traveller vulnerable but in turn proves Xol's worth to the other worm gods. So Nokris would be aiming to destroy Rasputin and if we can repel Nokris we gain Rasputin's trust. Then in the strike we go after Nokris in an attempt to end him but this is onky temporary and he will return in future content.

[@Awoken_Remmuz]

Ironically Byf causes me concern, one of the reason I fell in love with Destiny lore is because it's shrouded in mystery, that few things can be taken at face value. Nothing personal against Byf but this felt like someone calling for Bungie to strangle that ever shifting mystery, to turn Destiny lore rigid...and cold...like a stone.

[@Meidenless]

Bungie has the pieces, but are unable to correctly apply them. If you force a puzzle together, it may appear complete -- but in reality, it isn't. While I am in concurrence there should always be a veil of mystery and intrigue; I do not agree that they should never reveal rations of what is behind the metaphorical curtain. Bungie will turn the world of Destiny rigid and cold if they do not care enough to maintain a coherent story based around predefined notions they have already written. Why offer us a line if there is no end?

[@Awoken_Remmuz]

Guild Girl because for some it's about the journey, not the end destination, so the more line they offer the better. Don't get me wrong, a solid core of consistency is important, like a strong trunk is needed to support a tree and it's branches, but beyond that the lore should change, evolve, twist and turn, ever growing, ever changing, ever be questioned. One of the reason I already like Ana Bray as a character before I even played the dlc story, because she's a embodiment of the fact you can't always take Destiny lore at face value, you much approach it with a open mind, always question, always wonder.

[@awanderingtraveler1972]

I feel bad for him knowing how Warmind turned out, then again Forsaken probably healed him a little bit...

[@clearcat7296]

I'm sorry to say this Byf,because in D1 I was so into the lore, but Destiny 2 is about the game play. Lore is nothing what it was in D1, and probably never be again, play the game and enjoy what gameplay is there, then move onto some other game lore. I basically have....

[@dingse3_]

Agreed

[@Emoney1154]

Clear Cat he’s a lore channel you turd

[@clearcat7296]

And the lore of this game has been almost irrevocably broken, I want to see more byf videos, and if this lore issue is one of the reasons, maybe its time to find another lore.

[@dingse3_]

Clear Cat Agreed, covering the same ground over and over throttles the life and last little bit of enjoyment for others. While others profit from its negatives and downfall.

[@pizzazwned5772]

Kuro Cafe with that mindset, we’ll never get the lore we truly want.

[@embe9146]

As I have said before, Thankyou. You speak for my deepest love of this game/universe. 🙏🏻

[@mr.majestic428]

Lore nerd lives matter

[@Dnobagav49]

Bravo to your closing thoughts... When I first heard of Destiny, I was in awe... had the devs got to implement their "true" untainted vision for the game... I dare imagine. Destiny (the game and lore) needs to be a passion/labor of love for Bungie again. I remember all those in-depth interview docs with the devs prior to Destiny's launch... The community deserves "THAT" team's effort asap.

[@dingse3_]

Tut Tut. Are you really deleting comments that are criticising you here?

[@Lizard-813]

Why do you think that? I've counted at least 3 comments directly criticizing him.

[@bengale9977]

No, KZbin hides comments. It's been happening for years now.

[@BungieStudios]

Yes. Google doesn't like mean criticisms. THiS iS a sAfE sPaCe.

[@ahmadabduljalil5232]

Louder for the people at the back!! Well done on this one bro

[@shaggy214]

Man I miss your lore videos but I completely understand why you don't do them anymore.

[@flynnmansfield4860]

Hey Byf I had an idea for you. What if you made your lore videos into podcasts? I’d love to hear your lore content while driving to work and obviously videos while driving is bad haha. I know the cinematic scenes would be a trick to work with but it’s just a suggestion!

[@ThatGuyYouveKnown]

Byf yoy should make a post on the forums to get it viral with this video attached, honestly this is much more big of a deal than most people think. Alot of things in this video are extremely frustrating and its kind of just disappointing to see these things done. We need this info to be spread to a bigger audience.

[@johantsili3835]

You my friend just earned a sub. Amazing work, keep going

[@jacoblansman8147]

I have a few theories on the Warmind lore change between D1 and D2; 1) The public announcement of the Warmind AI network described multiple Warminds with different purposes and different areas to defend, but the private discussions with scientists (and other individuals who might be interested, such as politicians) outside of Clovis Bray said definitively that there is 1 Warmind (Rasputin) and it has multiple sub-minds to help it gather data and monitor/defend Humanity. 2) The public announcement described Rasputin and his sub-minds, and the general public mistakenly understood that there were in fact multiple Warminds. Clovis Bray either never realised this or never bothered to clear up the confusion. 3) Whichever of 1 or 2 seems more likely to you, most of the people who knew the truth (1 Warmind with sub-minds) perished during the Collapse and the information was lost, resulting in the mistake being made (again) that there were multiple Warminds. Why only Rasputin was found would have been explained as it being the only "survivor" against the Darkness - all the other "Warminds" burned out, fragmented and were then absorbed by Rasputin when we reconnected it to the other networks. I don't necessarily believe any of these theories but they would account for the lore change.

[@theplasticboy3658]

Now as for the Charlemagne bit, I believe Rasputin has taken over his station on Mars from the story mission where ghost says "He is everywhere now." As if to say Rasputin has done this multiple times across multiple warminds. Or Charlemagne could be dead/destroyed and Rasputin has taken over his system.

[@mattopotamus5885]

I feel like nokris and xol will both be strikes that are worked into the story for example the 3rd mission of the story is a strike were we stop nokris from doing something and then the final mission may also be a strike where we kill xol. Personally I think this could be done well if both of there lore is expanded upon during repeats of the strike, but the story version will mostly be focused on the main story

[@ProductionsbyRandT]

Thank you for calling out these inconsistencies! And, the total lack of story in the New D2. Sad, I loved the D1story, and grimoire.

[@john-lukepickarde7382]

So much care and concern put into talking about Destiny lore here, and yet, I really wonder if Bungie cares about Destiny lore anymore. It pretty much feels like they have put Destiny lore in the past. The only moment where I felt like I was playing Destiny again, lore-wise, was during the Saint-14 shotgun quest and a couple of the adventures in the base game. I don't even think I did all of those, in the end, because I had gotten all the resources I needed out of them.

[@aaronwilliams6165]

That is a shirt right there. Everyone buy one and wear it to E3 or anything where Bungie will see. "Be True to the Lore & Make it Wonderous"! The story, like every great game has been based in the story, the characters and the events we all share outside of the game that means something to us all. Thank you Byf I love the game and dont want to see it die.

[@chrismacarthur6364]

I’m speechless, everything I’ve been feeling about Destiny 2 summed up in 20 minutes, well said friend!

[@Ccoxx2]

Thank you for this. I’m not even a big lore guy and I was pissed about Osiris’ not getting the story he deserved and again pissed Knockers is only getting a strike.

[@Devil0027]

Man you preaching. I hope they hear you and us that loved and basically built the fan base. I hope they don’t destroy the lore any further

[@mylestoby2]

if i had to hedge a bet, id say Nokris would be an ally that basily abuses the fact he can't die die but having the guardians fight him as training. like, he sets up shop somewhere, and we're then sent in to kill him to test our abilities and out light. if we win he pops back into his throne room then a few days latter rematirlazes into our world for another group to try.

[@biggamejim8216]

I saw those web lore drops and watched them basically say that our understanding of what we understand is always changing....In short don't get attached to the story in any way. That is when I realized that in spite of all they have said their actions are basically what they have been since game launch. Just remember we got a go faster update.....which makes us no faster.

[@captainlink72]

Wow, powerful ending, Byf. Gave my chills.

[@goddamnspiderbat]

You might have covered this before in another video, but this is something I've been thinking about lately that is a huge hole in the lore. When the darkness attacked it didn't kill all humans, so why is it that no one seems to remember what happened leading up to the collapse and how is there no one alive that knew any of the guardians?