MY PET PEEVES WITH THE FANTASY GENRE

Things and stuff that bother me about the genre I love so much, Fantasy.
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[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Clearly, my best thumbnail yet.

[@bryanmcclure2220]

How about game of thrones. It has a very softmagic system. Do you dilike game of thrones?

[@jaradyuen1123]

I would love to see your opinion of Karen Miller’s Godspeaker trilogy. It’s been awhile since I read it but I recall it fondly for breaking a lot of fantasy tropes and expectations. Especially early on in the series.

[@liesellein]

Um... Buffy??

[@cperson875]

Daniel Greene I think you would find Michael j Sullivan books very enjoyable ps. If you decide to read them I would recommend starting in chronological order with the legends of the first empire series

[@Slaterybooker]

Sounds like you would like my fantasy stories I am creating. At the very least I know I could have an audience

[@yannickkhalil3355]

My biggest peeve is that i can't read the peeve titles because they come too fast

[@jamila5677]

Same. Had to go back almost every time

[@somegirl4631]

I had a "Hell' and "Earth" as diffrent plants in my book, so one time the chracter from earth is on a mission on a plant of diamond race telling himself "Come on guy, get it toghether and get your head out of the clouds and go down to earth!" and than he understands that "Oh wait, it's the wrong plant." 😂

[@ahelimukherjee1619]

Clearly you need to watch subbed animes ;)

[@MrLeftywright]

My biggest pet peave is when they say "what the hell" or "what on earth" in a world that isn't earth and doesn't have a religion that mentions hell

[@turtleanton6539]

Agreed! But then we get Sandersons cringey storm this and storm that. Thats why my book The Guardian is set on earth so its always fuck you and go to hell,people talk like people.

[@FlyingFocs]

Yeah, language that clashes with setting is a big one that most people seem to either not care about, or just don't notice. I remember a friend of mine talking about The Force Awakens and saying "it feels so weird to hear people use the word 'boyfriend' in Star Wars." A weird example, but it is what came to mind.

[@kvothekingkiller1754]

I think calling a planet "earth" is something that would always happen. Or the language's word for dirt

[@aidanspeck2487]

Kvothe Kingkiller oh yeah I didn’t think of it like that, but earth just means dirt lmao

Its why I love GRRM's writing. "The Others take him" is another way I read "He can go to Hell"

[@DragonBloodShepherd]

Imagine starting the book with: "The One that was Chosen is dead. Now we are all fucked."

[@crystalross2284]

Can I use this as a writing prompt? Pretty please.

[@DragonBloodShepherd]

@@crystalross2284 Of course you can! 😀

[@Xandycane]

Lol Mistborn drew me in with that premise.

[@thomaskirkness-little5809]

"I can't write for women, but I know all about elves."

[@robertblume2951]

But nobody bitches and moans about your unrealistic or miselvistic writing about elves.

[@marvalice3455]

ridiculous. elves and women are basically identical.

[@turtleanton6539]

@@robertblume2951 yes

[@turtleanton6539]

@@marvalice3455 kinda true

[@robgau2467]

Lmao!

[@ducovanderwoude6971]

There is a difference between a soft magic system and a bad magic system...

[@pRahvi0]

@@calebmauer1751 Indeed. As Sanderson himself said in his writing courses, writing a good or bad magic system boils down to just good or bad writing in general. E.g. Deus ex machina is bad, be it part of a magic system or not.

[@greymort8783]

You should write a book about two villages fighting, and they kill the chosen one.

[@aidanspeck2487]

With a wizard named Sand Alf

[@vitormelomedeiros]

@ateb3 If they're all black, then there would literally be no diversity at all. Do you know what diversity means?

[@davidf.farris6619]

@@vitormelomedeiros He's being a smart ass.

[@vitormelomedeiros]

@ateb3 It means diversity

[@galinor7]

@@vitormelomedeiros I think he does. It's called irony.

[@InfiniteText]

my pet peeve is when "the chosen one" is also somehow the exception to every rule....he learns to fight so well in like 2 minutes of training, all the ladies make exceptions for him, all the people he meets along the way didn't do this thing generally, but for him, they'll make an exception......like.....where's the struggle?

[@stevenlaput9496]

That’s why it’s called fantasy.....

[@zigaudrey]

I hate that too. They try to create a rule which enhance their statut. In Harry Potter, why only him and his friends get point from a journey which any one can do? That mean others has to purposly create struggle for free points? Also, the time catching in the quidditch doesn't make any sense. How about a sandglass? Why did they retains that weird time measuring after one match costed two months? Catching a bird is as impredictable. My god, this infuriates me.

[@orangecardman7905]

Sounds like WoT

[@Fif0l]

@@stevenlaput9496 we don't read fantasy to watch a protagonist immediately achieve everything they want. If that's what we want, we read bad fanfiction.

[@11DaltonB]

@@stevenlaput9496 Yes but you don't need to be blatant about it. Giving subtle explanations, or just avoiding the need for those kinds of tropes in general goes a long way.

[@YuzuruA]

The chosen one is evil - star wars prequels?

[@lukecartwright535]

I was thinking ganondorf

[@briangallagher3106]

As soon as he said I saw Vadar in my head. Dun dun dun dun du duuun

[@yakubduncan9019]

Yeah, I think people forget how amazing the concept of the Star Wars prequels was because of the botched execution. I think this is why 'good idea' are overrated in writing. You can have an amazing idea, but if you don't deliver on the characters or plot, it's going to tank.

[@ghostofsparta757]

Griffith from berserk is the chosen one and the main villain and Guts (the protagonist) pretty much has outward appearances of a Dark Lord.

[@bluerectangle5794]

The prequels even set up the prophecy such that it is fulfilled by Return Of The Jedi where Anakin kills both himself and the emperor. The last remaining Sith. Ignoring the new trilogy here.

[@Majtzy]

My pet peeve is your bookshelf, it makes me scared they are all gonna fall over and break :O

[@thethmooteresa]

Earthquake be doing that

[@Vickynger]

so, ive learned this from brandon sanderson (been watching his lectures) and i think what he says about soft magic vs hard magic is super valid: hard magic needs to be rigidly defined so the reader knows what everyone can do and what to expect. that way you can use it as plot devices without pulling shit out of your ass. soft magic is more used to color the world, to create a specific atmosphere and since its not well defined should not used as a plot device, otherwise it could fall in deus ex machina territory quickly. and thats how ive been thinking about it ever since.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

Well Sanderson said it all with his First Law: "the degree of influence magic has over the plot is directly proportionnal to how well your reader understand it". If Magic is a tool widely used by characters, it MUST have known rules and stick to them. If it's just the atmosphere or simple easy-to understand things, no need to developp

[@crystalross2284]

And Harry Potter is a mystery with a fantasy background. Which is why a soft magic system works well in it.

[@leirumf5476]

Woah, i can't agree more with that!

[@tompadfoot3065]

the war bit is why Dumai's Wells is arguably the best-written battle scene in fantasy. Once the Ashaman come in and start blowing dudes up, Jordan very much dials in on just how horrific it is *and* how horrified the other characters are. Hardened career soldiers vomiting from the sight, many people just sitting and openly weeping or just staring into the middle distance, it paints a powerful picture.

[@alexandraslibrary]

Speaking of not glorifying war, The Iliad displays the gruesome aspects war, in my opinion, it’s one of the best depictions of war in literature.

[@coolcatmemes1204]

Homer was one of the best writers of the ancient world

[@eb5381]

I came here thinking, “Oh, this looks fun to watch. Topes. Tropes. Tropes.” I walked away with a smile thinking, “Ohmygosh. There are people out there who would like what I write.”

[@saulgoneman]

Your problem with soft magic seems to be more of a problem with poor writing, there are plenty of soft magic systems that aren't just deus ex machina nonsense, a well written soft magic system feels much more magical than hard magic systems which are basically just superpowers.

[@ThePopsers]

I think he explained that pretty well with the Harry Potter example and so on. It's the same with your argument that hard magic systems are just superpowers. Like, what? Doesn't that also depend entirely on how it's written? I think every magic system will have both hard and soft elements to it and it seems like Daniel means that the softer the magic system, the more it feels like a plot device at times.

[@Piqipeg]

@@Bluestlark the notion that a magic system feels bad because it's videogame-y is a bit foreign for me, usually it means that whatever you can do with magic comes with a cost (mana, spells per day, etc.) which adds conflict (as long as the author remembers their rules), something I personally haven't experienced so much in soft magic systems. I'd personally say that ATLA is somewhat medium hard, there really isn't any cost to bending, except if you can't do the required movements you can't bend as good. Stuff you (the general you, not you specifically) basically turn a blind eye to when the writing is otherwise great!

[@henrikfitch4017]

@@Bluestlark Have you read Mistborn or Stormlight? They have some excellent hard magic systems.

[@henrikfitch4017]

@@Bluestlark They are written by Brandon Sanderson (the guy who made the terms 'soft' and 'hard' magic). His hard magic systems are generally logic based. Some of the best books I've ever read. I cannot recommend them enough. Just curious, what country are you from? I think the books are translated into many languages but if your first language isn't spoken much (I used to have the same problem finding books in Estonian) then I'm not sure.

[@the_well-known_stranger2275]

Not sure if you know this, but in the legend of Spyro series, the chosen one is the villain. The entire battle of the last game is Spyro and Cinder trying to stop the ‘chosen one’, a villain who is prophesied to remake the world yet the chosen is someone who has turned evil and is warping fate to their own ends and evil desires. It is a surprisingly interesting story for an old ps2 game.

[@litlmonkeybro101]

Sanderson has been workshopping a book he calls “Dark One” about a Harry Potter like kid, but he’s prophesied to be the Dark One. It’s a lot like the idea you talked about, and I agree it’s a good concept, but it’s a tertiary project to him right now, so we probably won’t see it for a while.

[@Ekrapf21]

litlmonkeybro101 ohhh that’s sounds fantastic

[@jamesholder13]

Very interesting.

[@TheSharlun]

Can't wait for that, His stuff is always so incredible I just know it'll be a great read.

[@xcBlackDiamond]

Though apparently it is being turned into a TV show, so it could be turned into a main project

[@SatoruwaFeng]

Scrapped Princess. It's an anime about a prophesied world-ender and her siblings who are trying to keep the rest of the world from killing her.

[@raymond-reviews]

4:06 Actually Bionicle beat you to the punch with that. There was a story while back called “The Kingdom” in which the Toas were unable to save their chosen one, Mata Nui. Since Mata Nui died, the people had to deal with the Dark Lord Makuta Teridax on their own.

[@Marco_Onyxheart]

4:25 You were the chosen one! You were supposed to destroy the Sith not join them!

[@modestalchemist]

chosen ones... evil chosen ones.... . uh... Aniken Skywalker.

[@TheSchoolRumbler]

I loved that Robert Jordan had rand and crew mention that adventure isn't as easy as the stories make it out to be. That "the stories never mentioned the hero sleeping under a bush for the night" fuck I love the wheel of time.

[@TheSharlun]

In WoT they always mention how stories would be different and better or are way worst then you expect.

[@Retorix303]

Except for all the fantasy books with main characters sleeping in the bushes... and the lofts... and haybales... and the ground in general. WoT is my favorite series, but that shit is a trope.

[@randyrogers1853]

Retorix303 characters sleeping is now a trope. Fucking hell.

[@randalthor2859]

@@Retorix303 they reference the stories in their world. That's.. not really accurate.

[@1LifeOnLine]

you want a story where the chosen one is killed? that was written 2000 years ago! :) its a good story!

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

You just reminded me of two more pet peeve’s. Bringing people back to life. And Jesus metaphors. Both super annoying and need to stop happening.

[@revpembroke3082]

Daniel Greene But if you killed Jesus metaphors, someone will just resurrect them!

[@jodiz5901]

What about Harry Potter getting killed because that was the only way to destroy the horcrux Voldemort created in him, and then Harry having the choice to go back or not? I thought that was original and well done.

[@ThePathOfEudaimonia]

@@DanielGreeneReviews Agreed, though I did like the Jesus metaphor in the Misborn series!

[@joeleek9976]

@@DanielGreeneReviews you see the Bill Moyers interview with Joseph Campbell? He specifically discusses Jesus from the perspective of a mythological hero. The temptation, fall from grace, and rebirth are common themes in any story. Better authors are a little less heavy handed with it.

[@Dragonmoon98]

"Village vs village" *furiously taking notes*

[@peytoncable7811]

Medieval people glorified war. In fact they loved it. Soldiers and generals didn't like sitting around, they wanted to be in battle. That is were they gained glory, prestige and honor. There is in fact very little evidence that they even suffered from 'PTSD' or at least the symptoms of it. They lived in a completely different culture were war was normal and expected. This time period is were a lot of fantasy takes place so I generally don't mind the characters and narrorator glorifying war. It just makes sense to me. But of course fantasy is a wide ranging genre and the characters and cultures can be completely different from the predominant cultures in our history. They could within the fantasy setting have modern philosophies on war and possibly the modern effects of war such as PTSD. It's fantasy why not.

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

Vin wasn't the Hero of Ages though

[@tnayeen.ashghatank]

*whispers* spoilers lol

[@mycdonalds2550]

oof spoiler for me, which is my fault

[@Laukaus11]

@@calebmauer1751 They were edited, not entirely fabricated. The ending of the third book makes it pretty clear who the Hero of Ages is.

[@willprotector]

If you are going to have to have a chosen one/chosen ones, make them earn it, don't just give it to them. Sure maybe there is some prophecy or some other foretelling that proclaims them to be thus, though there does not have to be. Rand is the Dragon Reborn, but he had to earn the right to fulfill his position and it took him almost the whole series to do it! Maybe have people who become "chosen ones" by what they are able to accomplish rather than some fiat designation. The problem with the "Chosen One" trope is that they tend to be spoiled, rescued by fate instead of skill or luck, and have random bursts of super-sayin powers that make it seem pointless other than as a plot crutch. You can have chosen ones, but just do it differently, rethink what it means to be "chosen," and see where that goes. And do like in classic tabletop RPGs, make it about the party and not any one character. Great videos, I am comparing your thoughts on the books I have read with your own. Keep up the good work!

[@logancole5101]

You actually got me thinking with the "chosen villain" idea. And I'll probably be going down the rabbit hole very quickly. But as a kind of "new" writer this is very helpful.

[@tylerbhumphries]

It’s so cool that you said what you said about the Chosen One trope. I’m writing a Chosen One story in which the main character is destined to be the villain of the overarching series. I’m a sucker for self fulfilling prophecies. My MC is a gray character as it is, so when she finds out what has been done to her and her family in order to prevent her from living long enough to fulfill the prophecy, she flips out, gets revenge and ultimately fulfills the prophecy.

[@saevarkiller]

I can't help but notice that WoT seems to have a lot of the pet peeves you mentioned aside from lack of diversity and perhaps the magic system (which still seems to be somewhat of a deus ex machina at times), yet you can't seem to give that particular series enough praise. Glorified war ☑ Chosen One ☑ Full Evil ☑ God level characters ☑ End of the world ☑ That being said, I am only just finishing book three with eleven whole books to go. Enjoying it very much so far, but rolling my eyes occasionally at some of the tropes and clichés used (especially the beginning which borrows story points very heavily from LotR) Love this channel, and have subscribed! (Looks like I'm going to have to give The Kingkiller Chronicles a reread, seeing as loved those books when I was 16)

[@ThePopsers]

I think you might want to change some of that comment when you got further into the books... :) Glorified war? Big NOPE later on in the series. The chosen one also has a good twist since he is chosen to either save OR destroy... The rest I agree with :)

[@forrestdorman4870]

Toward the end their will be two novels you can almost entirely skip. Otherwise the series is fantastic. You should be aware that when these were written these tropes were still very fresh...somewhat.

[@dev7615]

Wot doesn't glorify war.

[@randalthor2859]

Have you finished the series yet? (Ask because it's been a year, and maybe one of those ideas have changed)

[@jeremyschep3589]

I'll be honest, when it's done well and originally I love a good end of the world story more than anything

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

a nice story to tell would be the end of the world, but actually told from the point of view of a small community that tries to survive it with what they have, not the bunch of heroes that influence nations on the whole spectrum to prevent it. Give you a Frostpunk-like feeling

[@PonkChonk]

one of my pet peeves is when they often portray places based in the east as a chaotic desert wasteland.

[@Gwyndon]

You want grey characters but don't like A Song Of Ice and Fire? I also can't think of one death that was an F/U to the reader all had powerful impact on the story.

[@ItalianStallionBDM]

Right? Same for what he said about wanting war to be realistic

[@davidjones272]

Game of thrones has never killed a character to say fu to the reader or viewer. It's always done for narrative reasons, it's not shocking for the sake of it.

[@therealanimeowl]

A Song Of Ice and Fire is bad... and no... the characters who died that make you feel like they had weight when they died were just dumb. lets kill this guy! why? because he doesn't follow my rule, therefore i say so. did you kill this person? no i did not? i don't believe him, lets kill him. we have rules that we are not suppose to break! meh let's break them anyways! ends up killing a lot of people

[@orangecardman7905]

therealanimeowl i understood nothing of what you Said:D

[@rw9161]

ASOIAF has powerful deaths for the most part. Now Game of Thrones on the other hand... D&D bad

[@Kikilang60]

I read this steam punk fantasy novel about a homeless little girl, and a steam powered dragon living in a city. The girl ran around the city stealing the parts so she could fix the dragon. The point was, both were people. One was powerless girl, and the other was a decommissioned dragon left to die, but they were people. One book, and nothing epic, Everyone one I begged to read it, didn't like it, so what can you do?

[@SpaceRanger37]

What’s the name of the book?

[@marthakumi]

On Glorifying War, I think Malazan makes a good effort in making war as realistic as can be. You get to know how terrifying, horrific, gory it reeeaaaalyyy is. I do agree with you on this though.

[@Coffeehouse_Latte]

"Glorifying War should be avoided." Me who's whole basis of the story is how bad war is: Guess I'm safe.

[@turtleanton6539]

No chosen one,no world saving just kids fighting demons in my book The Guardian.

[@vanessaliu648]

outside of harry potter i have read maybe 1 or 2 fantasy series but i have been binge watching your videos and i am so ready to get into this new genre !!!!!!! thank you!!

[@ChrisBrooks34]

For the Fantasy genre is go hard or go home but I find that the world doesn't need to end for it to be enjoyable. A fantasy book I would love to see is how a villain comes to be and not a fairy tale retelling origin story of Maleficent or the Evil Queen but a character who starts out perhaps wide-eyed and optimistic and slowly starts making and justifying darker and more morally grey choices and by the end of the book the character and you don't realize the person that they have become. Or maybe they accomplished and got everything that they wanted but they are the Dark Lord that terrorizes children. War is never something pure and just it is ugly and dark and even when you'win' you can't recognize the who you are anymore. I really want to see a story that challenges the chosen one and how people really surrender their autonomy to a single person because we are desperate for a savior to raise them out of their current circumstance.

[@Gwylon]

I really recommend a web novel called 'A Practical Guide to Evil' if this is what you're looking for. It really twists and plays with a lot of tropes we see in fantasy.

[@bigblueshoe777]

Warcraft 3?

[@luscarora703]

The character you ate describing is called elend venture from mistborn :)

[@abdoul5176]

That sounds like Desert Punk.

[@re45on]

I feel like you're just looking for a domestic thriller with magic🤔😂🌠

[@vitormelomedeiros]

I would love to read this!

[@Gnomleif]

Since nobody's going to read this I'd like to toss in Hello Future Me's take on soft vs hard magic systems (paraphrasing alert) - "Hard magic systems mainly aim to solve practical problems. Soft magic systems mainly aim to solve philosophical problems." I like that take.

[@jessiethompson8516]

Well technically Harry Potter does die before he comes back to life and save the day. haha

[@thewingedserpent5823]

Fantasy to me feels like a new age of writing mythology (The only difference is its intent in Fiction) and they are often based in mythology. A lot of mythology is about the Glory of war therefore it is in opinion kompletely fine if Fantasy has Glory and honour in war ( especially since in the past war has Not always been as it is now) greek wars against others greeks were much more like a game of Chicken where you lost when you fled

[@uhm3487]

Jesus christ you are the greatest fantasy related youtuber I have ever watched. Can't believe you havent "blown up" yet!

[@hopperwolf2]

FYI, Glen Cook wrote a series about a "dark chosen one" titled The Dark War Trilogy. You would love it.

[@randyrogers1853]

Doesn’t Wheel of Time check most of these?

[@williammullinax6130]

Yes it does, but he is saying that it is done too much. It is fine in a story that you are first exposed to in the genre, but after reading multiple series in a row with the same tropes you start to want to see new things. It is just that too many authors are reusing the same tropes that it is getting old now. There are plenty of great stories who rely on these tropes and that does not mean that I will not like the story. It is just refreshing to see a story like A Song of ice and fire where you truly know that no character is safe.

[@evanflynn4680]

Chosen Ones. Don't just kill them. Make them lose. Then everyone who survives has to go "well, shit, what do we do now?" and do it themselves.

[@kittymachine3798]

I share most of your peeves! At this rate we don't have pets, we have a menagerie 😂

[@brandonsepos2485]

Speaking of a evil chosen one, Brandon Sanderson will eventually write 'Dark One', the story of the one chosen to destroy the world or something. Sadly, it was pulled out of the cosmere and isn't on it's way for a while. For more info, look at the state of the Sanderson for 2017, where he talks about it a bit Edit- It appears I was beaten to this comment by @litlmonkeybro. Whoops

[@omkargurav8992]

My biggest pet peeve is daniel never criticising hp, ignoring narnia and criticising asoiaf even when his points are not good.

[@VonTyrant]

So many books with interesting concepts that I stopped reading due to the chosen one trope.

[@cameronfielder4955]

To writers: don’t get too caught up in what people tell you to do and not do. I can list a hundred authors that broke the rules. Just write what comes naturally from your soul.

[@revpembroke3082]

Well, minimizing certain ethnic groups isn't ALWAYS ridiculous. Fantasy England in 1200 is never going to have a large population of Africans or Asians. Women aren't as physically strong as men (on average) and that matters in battles where a strong enemy can knock the weapon out of your hand if your grip isn't strong enough.

[@evanflynn4680]

Soft and hard magic system in the same story - where the overall system is hard and defined for the MC, but there are so many different ways to use it that the MC can't really know what his/her enemies are going to do with it. Some Litrpg/gamelit series do this. You can examine the enemy, know what level they are, but there are so many abilities and ways of using what you've got that coming up against someone that has a skill set that can get around various types of standard defenses is pretty common. The MC gets to choose between being pretty good at everything or specialising and relying on friends to cover their weaknesses. Gives the author a chance to make up everything, give it a gamified kind of sounding description and keep going without really having to justify things as much as a true hard magic system.

[@samuelcrouch8692]

I have a lot of these same pet peeves and at some point discovered that sci-fi novels don't tend to have most of these issues. It really shifted me into being a die hard sci-fi fan

[@t.k.mcneil1186]

My pet peeve is the idea that every book should be a bloody doorstop. I understand that world building is needed but things are getting nuts. Probably why I prefer more urban and parallel-reality fantasy like Anansi Boys and His Dark Materials. It could also be an American vs. British thing, even ‘high fantasy’ authors like Garth Nix averaging 500 pages per book.

[@joeleek9976]

Demon Cycle has a chosen one, but it is known that the chosen one can and indeed is likely to fail.

[@vladrek]

Great list. I've commented on a few of your videos about malazan. But I remember being so happy that two of the coolest characters introduced (Kalam, Quickben) in the first book were both black men. Also loved the way battles were handled and how deaths were brutal and so many shades of grey with the characters.

[@arte0021]

Why does their skin color matter?

[@9forMortalMen]

arte0021 for real though. I never notice skin color in my reading, unless racism is part of the novel. I didn’t realize Ben was black until I saw some art of him.

[@Jack-kx5rf]

Not giving the heroes bad qualities. Many fantasy books have a medieval-style culture where if you captured a city most of the women are getting raped, but in the books, this doesn't tend to happen. Too many books are trying to make their villains become grey characters while leaving the heroes white. I also like soft magic systems. For example the Force from Star Wars or bending in Avatar. Yes, bending is soft, the one and the only rule is that a bender can only bend their own element, with the exception of the Avatar. Also, a soft magic system is far superior through the viewpoint of the "villain" like in Overlord. They have DandD style magic but only Ainz and his crew can use 99.99% of the spells. the humans realise the only way to beat Ainz is to get his soldiers to defect.

[@MattJDave]

I think I accidentally made an 'evil chosen one' archetype with my villain protag in that she starts off desiring to be 'heroic' (in the greek 'great person' way, not the 'good guy' way) and then takes hold of an artefact associated with a dark god. Said dark god takes an interest in her, effectively 'choosing' her, and she goes on to... well, wreck civilisations, both good and bad, burn through allies like they're high octane fuel, and in general commit what amounts to multiple genocides.

[@flol.1741]

Cool video, I agree with so much of what you said. Couple things though... your riff on ASOIAF... I totally disagree with... yes there is quite a lot of death but I dare you to name one main character death that didn't affect the plot in a major way. Also with all that you are saying I really don't get why you like wheel of time so much as at least 50% of your pet peeves apply to it.

[@standinstann]

I wonder what you would think/do think of "Good Omens" by Gaimen and Pratchett when it comes to turning the concept of a "chosen one" on its head.

[@eyenuh300]

Dude that evil chosen one idea is amazing!

[@ryandouglas4039]

Not to be that guy but The Wheel Of Time is guilty of almost all of your peeves. Also that book you describe at the end, is that what you're writing? Sounds like it's something you're writing

[@thepeoplesjewels]

All of The Forsaken thought that they were the chosen one.

[@LydsTherinNotamon]

Me: Revising first chapter of my hopeful novel Daniel: 1:32 Me: *sweats nervously* To be fair, the scene in question involves dull wooden swords in a combat assessment rather than actual battle, but mentioning dancing with a sword and getting small nicks and cuts was so scary close to how I wrote the scene...

[@debbielarps]

I agree with you to an extent... But sometimes if I've been reading a bunch of really intensely and deeply developed books, I read something that follows the all common tropes as a kind of "palate cleanser". I don't think books that use these things are bad, they have their place.

[@georgevelis4651]

0:52 the problem is that until I kill them people might think it's a generic chosen one story.

[@tobydawson4599]

I object to your peeve of having all fantasy books represent all different groups for one reason I fear what your suggesting will simple lead to tokenism with meaningless characters just added in to fulfil a meaningless need to represent everybody. Also I have no objection to series choosing to make a universe as they want to if there basing on medieval Europe then why not. But if they do include people of other races I think it should always be a big part of the story because historical racial and ethic divides were a really big deal. Take the Moors in Spain for example. Simple said I don’t think this should be done to simple check some box and secondly if it is done then make it true to the real world and have it be an important feature of the society. I’m not saying they have to be racist just that there will always be an in group out group mechanic. That way if the author wants they can tackle that issue

[@orirune3079]

Agreed - the fantasy genre, especially high fantasy, is a European invention. Which isn't to say that its specific elements - magic, wizards, etc - are exclusive to Europe, just that the genre as we know it pretty much started with a British guy. So, of course it's full of European-based tropes. It's the same reason that Kung-Fu movies are mostly full of Chinese characters. That's just where the genre comes from. There's also some great non-european fantasy out there, you just have to find it (and it tends not to be written in English).

[@MadieTheGamer1899]

I completely agree with this. I wonder if people notice that theres tons of questions and things you have to think about while writing these types of stories. It's not that simple.

[@dirus3142]

Exactly. This type of lame criticism of "it's fantasy you can do what you want, so why dont you have (insert demographic) in it? If a person can write what they want, then why demand that they do what you want? The people in fiction represent themselves, and the world they live in, not you the reader. When books, TV shows, and movies play the representation game it comes across as fake. Give me a reason why that Chinese analog faction is in your West African like fantasy setting. People need to stop demanding authors to shoehorn in cultures because it's what they want. I read a book because the premise interests me, and I want to explore that authors creation. For good or bad.

[@willprotector]

I think the biggest issue in literary terms in that the Western European (or even Northern European) trope has been done again and again. How many times are we going to the rehashing or rather recasting of that same period of history from such a limited perspective? You can write what you want, but that is not writing anything new. There is a reason a doctoral thesis has to be about something new you contribute to the academic community. Also, I would argue that there have been very ethnically diverse cultures in history, just look at the Medo-Persian Empire, the Hellenistic Greeks, and then the Romans who followed not longer after. The Mediterranean is a hot-bed of diversity and it has always been that way. Diverse viewpoints make for more interesting stories and could lead to more original writing.

[@taragonleaf8005]

Here's my take on this. If its in a secondary world fantasy then all the ethnicity aren't related to earth ethnicity despite what they look like. If I have a country of predominately Mediterranean looking people, called Medit, why should blacks or whites feel left out? The people of Medit are not Mediterranean, they are Meditian. Just because your fantasy ethnicity looks like an earth ethnicity doesn't make them the same ethnicity. In any 2nd world fantasy, the blacks aren't African. Therefore African's can't be represented. The Whites aren't European. Therefore Europeans can't be represented. Not to mention that human skin color is a evolutionary adaptation to levels of sunlight in a given region. Dark skin protects the skin from UV light. Pale skin allows the skin to absorb greater amounts of vitamin D. So to put a black dude in your Norse analog story, I'm cool with that so long as the backstory makes sense. but you can believe in magic but you can't believe a black dude in Scandinavia line will eventually come in. Yea dude, human skin coloration is a scientific reality. You gonna throw gravity and spacetime out too? breaking science for the sake of diversity is a big stretch. Methinks your motive is not what you say it is.

[@robertblume2951]

Trying to figure out what you have read because other than Eddings the only people to really use the prophecied chosen one trope is Sanderson, Jordan and Rowling. Even Brooks only used it for the original Shannara trilogy and I seem to recall you haven't read those either.

[@jakerockznoodles]

I think soft magic systems have their place, usually as long as our main protagonists can't use it (or at least not predictably). It creates magic as this strange unknowable force that adds an element of mystique and awe to the few who are capable of using it. I'm also not a fan of world ending stories but my big pet peeve is that in fantasy conflict almost always involves military conflict in some way. I probably come from the angle as someone who found a liking for certain fantasy later as a lover of scifi, but my love in fiction is about exploring the unknown and I personally love a good adventure (which is probably why when I read LOTR I was far more interested in Frodo and Sam's wandering through swamps and up hills than any of the battles going on further west). There are lots of great ways in introducing conflict in these sorts of stories that don't involve swinging swords or throwing fireballs. What about someone who is using magic to perform some experiments of very dubious ethics? Or a village haunted/attacked by some weird spectral shenanigans that nobody outside them cares about but their livelihoods mean they can't move?

[@jamesholder13]

I agree with some of your pet peeves and disagree with others. But over all, you do raise some very good points.

[@MistbornTaylor]

Vin wasn't the chosen one though and spoilers... She did die.

[@Stradequit]

little late on the reply but if up until the final chapter of the novel the character is both alive and considered to be the chosen one, then (IMO) the overall reading experience is extremely similar and the backbone of the novel doesn't change. Vin, with her extraordinary powers and connection with ruin and preservation, saves the world. I love Mistborn but I think it fits the tropes pretty well.

[@ukiluser]

She dies after she becomes a godess and saves the world

[@picklesaye]

@@Stradequit IMO that's what Sanderson does; takes the tropes and just makes them better in every way

[@SuperDarknut]

But I don't know if I spaced enough She was chosen. Chosen by BOTH gods. Granted that was more for being the right person in the right place at the right time.

[@EstoNoEsUnSpoiler]

Now you have an intro! Congrats. I really admire your output, Daniel. Keep growing your channel!

[@Avarice176]

I never knew I wanted it before, but now I really want a story where the Chosen One gets killed haha

[@grozwald]

Honestly, if I'm going to read about preternatural forces fighting one another, I much prefer the idea of Law vs. Chaos to Good vs. Evil.

[@jamesmacleod9382]

That's almost every Michael Moorcock ever published.Elric was in many ways evil. He derived power from a soul devouring black runesword. He was the last Emperor of a decadent dying empire of cold ruthless not quite human people who worship the gods of chaos and that ruled the world for 10.000 years. and that's just one of the many incarnations of the Eternal Champion cycle. I suppose most would be considered classic since they were written in the 60's and 70's, but LOTR they are not.

[@florbengorben7651]

8:14 a good example, although not really so much in the fantasy genre, is Winston from 1984. He's a skeptical man that wants for himself and his people to be freed, but he's not really a good person either. It's seriously debatable as to whether he's good or not.

[@Everest314]

I have one more, with magic systems. So, I think it is a good idea to try and make something new and unique. But that doesn't mean it has to be something that is completely unrelated to and unispired by everything that has been there before. An interesting twist on something we have seen before works much better than inventing the most bonkers kind of magic you have ever seen. And then, when they make that kind of magic system internally consistent it sometimes starts feeling even more artificial and corny. An examle how that kind of thing CAN work is Brandon Sanderson. Mistborn's magic system is pretty unique and kind of crazy. But because he thinks about physics and relates the magic to real things (metals) we can still relate to it enough. In Stormlight (only read TWOK so far) he uses a frequently done basis - crystal thingies as magical power batteries - but gives a twist to the things it can do instead of just making people throw fireballs. It also reminds me a bit of what he did in Mistborn, things existing in pairs of opposites, at least some (but not completely wacky) connection to real world physics. And since they are both set in the same universe I like the compromise of noticeable parallels that don't feel like carbon copies in a different colour. Long story short not everybody is as good at that as Brandon Sanderson and it often goes wrong.

[@damianziokowski8421]

Aren't the pet peeves listed strongly represented in the wheel of time? And yet it is his favourite book series ever.

[@justinj_00]

Because the Wheel of Time did them _right_ while most series just use the tropes because they're tropes or don't have original ideas

[@BrettWoodPiano]

I've had several dreams where I am at war with melee weapons and both sides get forced to fight each other and it's terrifying

[@six2make4]

I technically have a chosen one... In the way that on campaign he saved a witch who, along with the rest of her cult were supposed to be burnt at the stake, so she now firmly believes he was sent due to her prayers. The guy mostly just saved her because they were held by the enemy, so while he is trying to get things in order she does wacky hijinks in the background like: Trying to convince people that this guy is actually PERSONALLY chosen by the Gods, murder the "unfaithful" and tons of other fun stuff. This is not a giant part of the book, but it does have some consequences over the grand narrative. I thought it was kinda fun and a bit clever. Yes war is brutal and got battlefield tactics and strategies, important people die, I have other women who aren't looney's. I'm not quite done, so yeah, harder magic system and cultures is a bit on the weak end, but so is the whole world building aspect, still seems it would tick your boxes pretty well. Except for the two villages one.

[@tsili1409]

"let's go grey!" haha totally agree

[@LoyaFrostwind]

It turns out that the hero's dad is the villain. George Lucas beat everyone to this one already.

[@wardm4]

How do you feel about the Dresden Files? No chosen one. Pretty low key on the world-ending front. Harry's humanness causes a lot of the tension (i.e. gray zone). He's not super competent, so definitely not overpowered.

[@stephenshay9838]

Great series

[@zanebruce2546]

Have you tried his other series? They all kinda hit different notes but maintain is signature world building and character development.

[@SysterYster]

The purely good/evil people thing is something I really liked with Dragonlance Chronicles and the following trilogy. The story and writing aren't top-notch, but the characters are. Even the most evil of them have good sides, like caring for the outcasts, and even the most good ones, have flaws and one of the storylines is even about when good wins and controls everything, but it's "too good" and that in itself is bad and becomes too zealous. I really like that about them. :)

[@anthonydevantier8851]

A song of ice and fire never kills people without reason.... thats an invention of the tv show. Red wedding, Ned's beheading, Renly's death, Robert and Joffrey's assassination all are central to the plot. Not just for fun slaughter

[@ZorgG2]

Evil chosen one? I'd be 100% in to that. God, I just want a proper villain redemption arc that doesn't just redeem then kill them. I want the villain to be redeemed, I want to be made to love them and I want them to LIVE with the consequences of what they have done.

[@gritgrimdark]

In regards to your first pet peeve, I highly recommend Heroes by Joe Abercrombie. You enjoyed his First Law trilogy. Heroes is in the same universe and takes place a little after First Law. IMO this book is where Abercrombie hones his craft and hits his stride. Plus his perspective on war and fantasy tropes continues to be fun and interesting. Can't recommend it enough.

[@auriaska99]

i'm pretty sure there are quite few mangas, with "chosen one dies" now protagonist (Average villager) has to replace him on the journey

[@morugascorpion6021]

90% of your peeves are all rolled into this one book I’m reading now: A Kingdom of Exiles. I bought it because of its five star rating on Amazon. I’m almost done with it, and it’s been a drag most of the way. That’s why I’m now on KZbin, watching various BookTubers to get a good recommendation for my next read. I’m a big fan of well written fantasy. I’ve listened to a few of your videos today, and have bought Wheel of Time, and subscribed too. Your comments seem well thought out so I’m looking forward to my next read!

[@arte0021]

I actually like fully completely evil villains. It makes their eventual demise much more satisfying

[@clutch1141]

There's a line between having unapologetic, strong female characters(Nynaeve, Jasnah, Susannah) that stand out as good characters their own merits, rather than tokens of girl power that's extolling the virtues of pc culture on me while I'm just trying to read a good story with convincing characters. Good writing seems to trick you into asking thought provoking questions yourself, rather than cramming the writers ideology down your throat.

[@pojo398]

Honestly I agree with just about everything here, I've been practicing writing and making my world basically around small conflicts, brutal (realistic) combat, moral gray areas and just everything like that. I love the idea of writing stories that take place in very particular areas and the ramifications of the story don't really reach the entire world. Its just people getting into situations in their own side of life

[@Ketutar]

So, basically, Wheel of Time is your pet peeve :-D

[@bryanbaker6040]

R. Scott Bakker has an evil chosen one. Read the Prince Of Nothing trilogy. It's pretty brutal, but very well-written and the worldbuilding is insane.

[@ChristmasLore]

It's so, so underrated! But then, to many, it will appear to be quite a difficult read.. And yet, it's one of the most brilliant series, maybe ever.

[@papaaeon7210]

Strong 👏 independent 👏 women 👏 who 👏 don’t 👏 need 👏 no 👏 man 👏

[@maryiv291]

I’m using your video as a guide for pet peeve to avoid in my books. Thanks

[@adrianreinstein1154]

Okay, I’m SUPER STOKED on the last topic you brought up... and the imagination it sparked in me! What would be cool things to see in a fantasy book? I like your idea of small scale conflict, and also your idea of a “evil” chosen one. It got me thinking... and I think it would be cool to see multiple chosen ones from each culture. In a way, like WoT... but maybe more fleshed out of a trope. More obvious. And you could have light and dark chosen ones, some which even switch roles throughout the series? I’m just throwing my first thoughts out there, but this topic/convo would be awesome to fully have with a bunch of book geeks. Hell, it would be cool to have a collaboration of these ideas then made into a story... a group think tank/writers room that actually becomes a serious and legit final product!

[@AspienPadda]

I was about to mention Hatfield vs McCoy at the village vs village thing

[@luscarora703]

It's there ANY fantasy series without a pure evil person? Even in GoT, stormlight archive,...

[@jtcrook32]

If you are talking about Odium, is he pure evil? I don't think he is. Unless you are talking about someone else but I can't think of anyone that is pure evil.

[@egomaniac7230]

A great example for soft magic system and soft world building is Undertale! Its world building is not rational and it's full of holes but it works perfectly for the story it's trying to tell. It's so nicely done that even its plot holes has worked in its favor.