My Policy Regarding Brahminical Initiation

[@BhaktiVikasaSwami]

(Managed by disciples): Hare Krishna. To dive deeper into this topic please see following scholarly analysis:: archive.org/details/brahma-gayatri-part-1-final

[@Tarangi]

Very interesting. ! First I was not agreeing with what His Holiness was saying , but then as he started reading that long conversation with Shrila Prabhupad it started making sense. And further as Maharaj started commenting on the conversation. Very very interesting. I am female myself and I am second initiated in ISKCON , but I must say i also understand what Maharaj says and as I was hearing and hearing it was sitting with me more and more.

[@tirtha_pavana]

Thanks for always being bold, Beloved Maharaj 🙏🏻

[@akumarmalai]

Jai well spoken, Maharaja. Now in iskcon every guy is brahmin initiated even if not doing mangala arati or still eating outside. Very watered down standards

[@tomashromnik108]

I met many so called brahmins from ISKCON who have long hair, beard, karmi dress and go to work. Kali Yuga brahmins.

[@Tarangi]

😅 thank you for pointing out. I am myself second initiated and yes. I am somewhat as you described. Well. Now, as i already got this service of chanting Gayatri, the only way is to try to be more serious.

[@user-st3zg2fr5i]

Thanks Maharaja for uplifting our understandng of Srila Prabhupada's desire to spread KC throughout the world! Dandavat pranams

[@Wids41]

Hare Krsna Maharaj. 🙇 Thank you for speaking fearless. 🙏

[@jjdbvks1510]

Please accept my Humble obeisences Maharaj, I am always indebted to your Enlightening Lectures, awsome references from Srila Prabhupadas Quotes.

[@bhagvandaspatel7509]

His holiness Shakti Vikas swami Maharaj ki jay whri guru Tauranga jayatah pranam to all isjcon santasiji

[@jakubstaszelis9433]

Very important lecture. Appreciated. Thank you. Just read one more statement in Bhagavatam: (...)This type of civilization is called daiva-varṇāśrama. One of the objectives of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to establish this daiva-varṇāśrama, but not to encourage so-called varṇāśrama without scientifically organized endeavor by human society. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.14.10 (Y.s. Krsna kirtan das)

[@helionfelix6280]

Thank you for this lovely presentation on Varnashram. In his last class his Divine Grace srila Prabhupad talk about this topic. In reference to the sinful activities during initiation time is not taking by the spiritual master but to the degree of his purity it is burned by him. Again, thank you.

[@holysri]

The concept of Varnashram is indeed deeply intertwined with Vedic culture and Vaishnavism. However, it's important to recognize that it has also been appropriated for atheistic philosophies in India. Srila Prabhupada did not advocate for a birth-based varna system, which is a departure from the daiva varnashram system reintroduced by Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada as part of vaidi Bhakti practices. It's worth noting that the Gaudiya Sampradaya has never regarded varnashram as its cornerstone, as it primarily follows baba ji traditions.The hypocrisy arises when certain individuals vehemently oppose the idea of female Diksha gurus, citing varnashram principles, while conveniently ignoring historical precedents within the Gaudiya Sampradaya. Yet, these same individuals readily embrace the bestowal of Brahmin initiation upon foreign individuals, often derogatorily referred to as "melachas," and label it as daiva varnashram. This selective application of principles highlights the inconsistency and bias within the discourse.

[@p007t]

The basis is sastras. Not one's mental speculation. Those who have opposed FDG did that on the basis of sastras. Also it's wrong to think that they're against birth based varna. Birth based varna is fine and good when the quality of that varna is present within the person. But the problem is when they insist on the superiority of birth over quality. And ....that's based on sastras. Sastras says quality first.

[@PratapSingh-hc2ne]

Namo om Vishnu padaya Krishna pristaya bhutale Sri mate bhakti Vikash swami niti namine 🙏

[@mintuvishwakarma8975]

Param poojya Swami bhakti vikas ji ke shree charno me koti koti naman

[@sr7895]

Maharaj dandawat Pranam onto your Lotus Feet❤. You are always on point...

[@NeetuPunwani]

Absolutely on the spot H H Swami. There should be different standards for shudras, vaishyas, kshatriyas and very very very few true brahamans and even fewer sanyasis. Each community should have a lead for each varna to train them in how to be Krishna Conscious as per their varna standards(to be discussed), basic for shudras - 4 regulative principles, ekadashi fasting etc. do everything for Krishna , yat karosi yad adnasi etc and thus promote community support within each varna and facilitate the next varna and thus no one looks down on other who is a name sake brahman. Even the standards will not be diluted and will remain intact and avoid fall downs. Also no discrimination, it is based on nature or affinity towards Krishna Conscious activities and aligned with occupational duties. No false brahmans! and esp min 4-5 years for each initiation for those who become brahmans, to ensure life long and rooted varna asharam dharma. A sanyasi could have all followers and this will avoid them becoming sick taking up karma not needed, trying to artificially make a sudra a brahman.

[@ntyrlv]

As Kali-Yuga advances, I think it’s increasingly important to establish VD! Not acting on that order, what’s been happening to Iskcon? It’s creating a situation in which it’s harder to institute VD. A society which embraces feminism will never accept VD, because if they don’t accept difference between man and woman, how will they accept difference between man and man?

[@ntyrlv]

I don’t know if the GBC really believe those things or if they are just worried that someone might sue Iskcon for “discrimination”. Clearly, from the perspective of following or not following Prabhupada, it’s very hypocritical. Disciples should know their guru and if they know their guru, they shouldn’t be upset about your policies. Sounds like Iskcon is a business corporation treating gurus as their employees and disciples as clients. Do they care about standards or just worry about losing clients? It seems to be the second option, otherwise they should be more concerned about LACK of standards, not stricter standards. It’s all politics and mind games. Makes it hard to take them seriously. What a mess they are making with Prabhupada’s institution…

[@jainittai5104]

Well said.

[@keithf4594]

Yes very observant.

[@prafvalli]

Start a centre gather congregation. Propose a temple and build and increase number of people connected. Go on to the next area. That's what I am seeing.

[@yaroslavsachkov2558]

GAURANGA! Even though ISKCON is full of problems, your over generalization is very dangerous

[@rajeevkumarsharma3177]

Most humble obeisances at lotus feet of Guru maharaj!🎉🎉🎉

[@Conscious_science]

Eye opening Lecture

[@prathamesh1242]

All glories to Guru Maharaj.....all glories to Srila Prabhupada.... Hare Krishna 🙏❤️🙏

[@nityaliladd9506]

vancha-kalpatarubhyash cha kripa-sindhubhya eva cha patitanam pavanebhyo vaishnavebhyo namo namaha🙇🏻‍♀️🙏

[@Sikhi-piccha-dhari_dasa]

🙌 Jaya 🙌 Śri Śri Gurumaharaj ki Jaya 🙌 Dandavats pranam 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@ntyrlv]

Mayapur academy has been advertising their “Deity worship course” for kids, showing a bunch of wholesome images of boys and girls performing Deity worship. How would you say this relates to the discussion of brahminical initiation? I’d like to add that they also advertised a course on Deity turban and we can see in the footage a bunch of women and brahmacaris taking the course side by side, which doesn’t seem to be a great situation. If an institution related to Iskcon with such a respectable title as Mayapur academy does that, what to expect from congregation members etc? It is clear that this has nothing to do with Vedic culture and is aiming more at sentimentalism and making money from courses, however, it is setting the standard for most people and its certainly going to be popular.

[@mallikadasi]

Maharaja, I am listening to your lecture a 2nd time because it is so filled with good information. To tell a guru he is not allowed to discriminate who he gives initiation to, according to his standards due to his understanding of the Vedic sastra, is ludicrous. How can the BGC "vote" what a guru's standards for initiation are? We have acharyas who didn't give initiation to anyone, due to their personal standards regarding the matter. Hare Krishna!

[@BhaktiMargEntry]

Hare Krishna guru Maharaj dandavat pranam 🙇🙏

[@ntyrlv]

Many so called sadhus going against varnasrama-dharma while claiming authoritativeness based on their supposed position within the varnasrama-dharma system. Sawing the branch they are sitting on, what to expect but nonsense? They don’t want to “discriminate,” pretending to be on the topmost platform. You just can’t preach or take position in an institution in the topmost platform. And of course, there is probably a lot of mayavada going hand in hand with lack of discrimination.

[@krsnasrayadas1196]

The bubble is blown!!!!!

[@shubhatiwari5324]

Shat Shat pranam Guru Maharaj 🎉❤🎉

[@shubhatiwari5324]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@anshsingh7841]

Hare Kṛṣṇa maharaji....

[@deepankarchakravarty5951]

Hare Krishna Guru Maharaj ji Dandvat Pranam

[@libertyismyindefeasiblerig3838]

pranam guruji

[@JacquelineBusnac]

Do we also understand past, present, future. Chaytanya Maha Prabhu said Maha Mantra in every town and village , so what do we have to do ??? Harinam , Harinam, Harinam... so donations should go to this goal right ? Vaishnava's should only travel from town to town, village to village ! So why is this not happening ? I think of holding the old traditions and offers !

[@emiiliaolausson5559]

It is with qreat sorrow I hear that you would consider that witholding the Gayatri mantra from half of the humanity would be somehow necessary to promote Varnashram Dharma. It is this half of humanity who have most intimate and most influential connection to the next generation. Mothers, grandmothers, aunts, Godmothers, etc, they all mold the children and adolescence under their care much earlier and often much more profoundly than any male guru will do later on. Therefore it is important that women as a class get all support and all possibilities to remain conscious of God, Krishna conscious in all their dealings throughout the day. For me this was and still is possible by taking the time for meditating on the benevolent, sacred syllables of Gayatri mantra. I pray and hope that this notion of leaving women as a class bereft of the blessings of the Gayatri-mantra, which was generously given to his female disciples by the founder Acharya, will not spread further. After all, the problem in ISKCON in general has not been women disrespecting the Gayatri mantra or the brahminical services of Pujaris or Deity cook, etc. It is the men, especially Sannyasis, breaking their initiation wows and falling down, having intimate connections with women, young girls, or children or simply becoming abusive. As far as I have read, SP forbade any further Sannyasa initiations before he left. This should maybe be introduced first, before refusing women to get a brahmana initiation.

[@jakubstaszelis9433]

Nice but I think you are missing the picture, objectively I see that Maharaja is trying to give much much more than he is proposing "to take". The idea of protective culture and lifestyle as presented in the highlights of the excerpts quotes from Prabhupada... So those who like it can take benefit from it. Why do you want to limit such attempts? Otherwise nice writing, nice to see that a devotee is expressing attachments and experienced benefit to-from the Mantra.

[@SridharSrinivasan-bm1xi]

Ssd: your choice of the word "deprive" is not appropriate. For example, when Brahma created 50% of humanity (men) he did not give them an uterus and thus did he deprive them of the bliss of bearing the child in their wombs? Starting from Lord Brahma till BSST none of our Acharyas gave Brahma Gayatri to women, so would you accuse all of them of depriving 50% of the humanity of bliss of chanting the Brahma Gayatri? If you are really interested in knowing the full story in detail then please read Srila Prabhupada's books and Maharaja's books, especially the book on Mothers and Masters that describes the role of women as mothers and not be brainwashed into believing such bogus claim that 50% of humanity is deprived of bliss of chanting Brahma Gayatri...For your information generations after generations of ladies in my family and many other families were never even bothered that they were not given Brahma Gayatri which is quite contrary to your tall claim. These ladies were Vaishnavis coming from great generations of families coming in the line of Vedanta Desika and Pilla Lokacarya. The 1000's and 1000's years of history does not contain any sanction for female to become diksha-gurus nor get sacred-thread nor ever get right to receive Brahma-gayatri. All acaryas including BSST never gave Brahma-gayatri to women devotees.. In fact both Vaidika and Pancaratra sastras prohibit women from becoming acaryas, adorn sacred thread, and most of all cannot utter the Brahma-gayatri mantra. Now under what situations that Srila Prabhupada gave Brahma Gayatri to women (wherein there are enough proof that Srila Prabhupada was compelled to do so by revolting women disciples who waved the feminist equality flag) has already been addressed with details about SP's female disciples' revolt for Brahma-gayatri in my book Female Diksa-gurus, Do We Need Them? So please don't try to mislead the world with such tall claims that all women wholesale are feeling left out because Maharaja is not giving Brahma-gayatri to women.

[@damodara_BVKS]

i think from the beginning of the universe, the half of humanity has been women, till date. So did all the acharyas, Lord Brahma, and sastras have not somehow considered this point that you are getting a revelation of it now? I mean Vyasadeva in the Bhagavatam writes that he is giving Mahabharata and Puranas because women and sudras cannot approach the Vedic mantras. So if he had your idea he would have been saved from the work of compiling Puranas and Mabharata, isn't it Maybe, you need to rethink your basics. if you are from india then it will be a good thing to again attend the six-sessin course.

[@jaynityanandadas4965]

JND response: (1) Your comment “which was generously given to his female disciples by the founder Acharya” has already been answered in the lecture. There are recorded anecdotes to prove that Srila Prabhupada, unwillingly and circumstantially, gave gayatri initiation to appease some of his female disciples who were highly upset with not getting enlisted in the first time second initiation list. (2) There are Srila Prabhupada’s quotes to support that devotees should implement Varnasrama practices, and as a part of it, only qualified (with Brahminical qualities and work) male disciples should be given Gayatri initiation, as this has been a norm in Krsna’s Varnasrama culture. It is not the issue of “devotee women disrespecting Gayatri Mantra anyway” but to establish proper standard practices in Krsna’s Varnasrama culture. (3) Moreover, ignoring Srila Prabhupada’s future Varnasrama vision by making a stringent policy against his own words regarding Gayatri Initiation (by current GBC), is nothing but disrespect to Srila Prabhupda. (4) To become Krsna conscious throughout the day, we also have Pancaratrika Mantras that can be chanted by devotee women. Brahma-gayatri can be and should be chanted as an invocation of Lord Krsna, however, according to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, brahma-gayatri was given to qualified males to enter into studying Vedas. Please see: Caitanya Bhagavata Adi Khanda (8.7, purport). (5) Any initiative in implementing Krsna’s Varnasrama culture should be appreciated. Our own ISKCON society badly needs it to minimize all kinds of sinful tendencies that you mentioned.

[@samspade2657]

Manu explains that females are not deprived, for them Vivaha Samskara is the equivalent of Brahmana initiation.

[@JacquelineBusnac]

Prabhupad said also; in the age of Kali Yuga everyone with this knowledge is a guru and everyone who chant Maha Mantra is a devotee ! So what is then the issue ? He said even you do not even have to know something of these scriptures. And then the offer for this Kali Yuga age is Harinam Sankirtan, nothing else, no other way, no other way, no other way. So if we follow Prabhupad we should travel around this world do Harinam and spreading his books. Nothing else. Not building temples but go on the streets everywhere and DO HARINAM !!!!! This is the conclusion nothing else !!!!

[@tomashromnik108]

Try to maintain proper sadhana without temples. Good luck. If you don't have temples, where will you invite people for program? What about families in Krishna consciousness? Can they travel with whole family from town to town, village to village? Or devotees should do Harinam where they live at least... Do you travel and do Harinam every day? I hope so... Hare Krishna

[@SridharSrinivasan-bm1xi]

How is this related to the topic that Maharaja is addressing?

[@SaurabhGupta-ro8vq]

Dear Guru Maharaj, Please accept my humble obeisance. Thank you for the insightful lecture that offered a clear perspective on Brahmana initiation. However, I have a query concerning the Gopal mantra. I've noticed that in Gaudiya Math, the Gopal mantra is sometimes given independently, even to those who have not undergone Brahmana initiation, with the rationale being that without it, one cannot properly offer bhoga to the Lord. Therefore, I'm curious to know if the Gopal mantra is essential for individuals practicing bhakti. Your Servant, Siddhanta Das

[@sridharasrinivasadas79]

Please go through my comments on the system of Vaidika and pancaratra gayatri mantras and the goal of each mantra. Brahmopadesam or giving of Brahma Gayatri with sacred thread is for the purpose of worshipping Trai-vidya devata or Vedas personified. Only the first three varnas of men are ordained under scriptures to study of Vedas (worship of trai-vidya devata). But everyone including sudras and lower class men and women as a whole gender are not ordained to study of vedas or Brahmopadesam but are entitled (yathA-vidhi) to do Deity worship at home. So for this purpose the mantra given is 18-syllabled Krsna mantra for which yajnopavitam or sacred thread is not necessary if the man is of sudra quality or the devotee is a woman.

[@SaurabhGupta-ro8vq]

Hare Krishna @@sridharasrinivasadas79 Prabhu, Thank you for your reply, this is my further query on this, Can anyone recite this 18-syllable mantra dedicated to Krishna on their own, or is it necessary to receive it from a guru first? If initiation is required, what is the procedure for receiving this mantra within ISKCON, particularly from Maharaj?

[@vijayalakshmiv1539]

Hare krishna pranaam to guru Maharaj

[@madhaviraja4600]

Hare krishna prabhu

[@atulbhatt5573]

Varnashram is the need of the day

[@iswara108enricochiarucci5]

there are a few discrepancies to me. Of course Prabhupada said "it is time to boil, condensate, the milk" intending to increase the quality... but in the ancient vedic Gurukula at the age of 7( I believe) was given the brahma gayatri to the boys... how is that? I mean I know the answer but I hope someone alse knows as well. Initiation means to initiate, does not qualify by himself, it gives a chance to raise to the stage. The Gayatri mantras we receive in our sampradaya are known to be "pancaratrika gayatri mantras" , gayatri is a metric system, they are meant to get the devotee INITIATED into deity worshipping, letting the conditioned soul into the process of arcana seva to purify him/herself engaging body,mind and senses trough the service to the arca vigraha of the lord. I can't image ladies not having access at this easy and indeed powerful method. So the topic looks a bit controversial because it is... And there may be other reasons why scholarly inclined devotees, real Brahmanas :-) are at the opposite side of Maharaja's siddhanta. Still the concept of daiva Varnasrama is easily understable. We may differentiate, and we do in practice already, I believe, in different levels of Brahmanas.... at Srila Bhaktisiddhanta times many devotees and even Sannyasis fall down, of course nowadays still happens, Guru and Krishna wants to give a chance to raise anyone, and there is no guarantee on the outcome... Thanks to Maharaja for having brought up the topic

[@sridharasrinivasadas79]

Please see my previous reply explaining the system of "YathA-vidhi" or as ordained in the scriptures. Both Vaidika and Pancaratrika scriptures prohibit woman and Sudras from getting Sacred thread the sankalpa for getting sacred thread is clearly stating that the origin of the Brahma Gayatri mantra is Brahma, the meter is Gayatri, and the predominating Deity is "Trai Vidya Devata" or the predominating Deity of the Vedas (Vedas Personified). So the sacred thread is adorned for the purpose of learning Vedas and hence Brahma Gayatri mantra is the first mantra that is taught as part of Brahmopadesam. Sudras and women, as per sastras, are not allowed to recite or study the Vedas and hence they don't get sacred thread and Brahmopadesam. Brahmopadesam means giving sacred thread with Brahma Gayatri mantra. Regarding Pancaratrika Gayatri those mantras are chanted for the purpose worship of Deity. All are entitled to worship the Deity but "yatA-vidhi" or as ordained in the scriptures. If a "Man" qualifies himself to be a brahmana even though born in a sudra family can be initiated according to pancaratrika process into Brahmopadesam and Deity worship. So he is given sacred-thread and a full set of Brahma Gayatri+6 pancaratrika Gayatri mantras. But if someone is born as a women then according to sastras they are not entitled to Brahmopadesam and hence are not given sacred thread and Brahma Gayatri mantra. But they can do Deity worship at home and so they are given pancaratrika gayatri mantras. Same rule applies to sudras and lower among men.

[@hansjaigadi833]

Hare Krishna Maharaj ji.. Dandavat Pranam. Maharaj ji wonderful, Great lecture on Diksha. I would be humbly obliged to know the sastric reference that chanting 10 Gayatri mantra suffices sandhyavandan. No need of Arghyadan, marjanam etc. Kindly advise. Thank you Maharaj ji. Hare Krishna🙏

[@damodara_BVKS]

Hare Krishna. SHORT ANS: Just Check Smrti Muktaphalam, Ahnika Kanda, Sandhyopasana Kala section, where this point is disucssed saying that Gayatryupasana is the main essential thing of sandhyavandanam and other parts are to support it which could be done away with in cases of asamarthya (incapability). This concept is also discussed in Smrti Muktavali in a similar way, although with lesser details. i hope this satisfies your in inquiry. Detailed discussion could be had one-to-one because it would be a complex sastric discussion involving several rules of mimamsa. Your can find above two books on my sastra library: guru-sadhu-sastra.blogspot.com/p/sastra-library.html

[@SridharSrinivasan-bm1xi]

I am not sure which part of the lecture you are referring wherein Maharaja has stated that chanting 10 Gayatri Mantra is equal to sndhyavandan. Nonetheless, we have to understand that Sndhyavandanam has got arghyadan, marjanam etc. as angas, but the central part is Gayatri Japa and followed by the Sandhya upasthanam. This is clearly stated in Mahabharatha, as stated below: "देशोभे महापत्तौ मार्जनार्घ्यायसंभवे । संध्यागतं सहस्रांशुमंत्रः कुर्यादुपस्थितम्” ॥ इति । अत एव च युधिष्ठिरादिभिर्युद्धोद्यतैः सांगानुष्ठानासमर्थैः सकलांगपरित्यागेन आदित्योपस्थान- मात्रमनुष्ठितम् । तदुक्तं महाभारते- The above verse clearly states that the mandatory part of sandyavandana is the Adityopasthana or worship of the Surya-Narayana form of the Lord and the angas such as arghyadana and marjanam are angas that are not compulsory. Now, dharmajna samaye pramanam vedas ca (Apastambha sutra 1.1.1.2-3): the practice of a dharmajna which is not sastra viruddha or not opposiing the sastras are also to be considered as equivalent pramanas to Vedas. So, our Gaudiya Acaryas have carefully considered the samarthya or capability of the students to perform the detailed sandhyavandanam part and different acaryas have prescribed concise or detailed versions but basically to abide by the sastric injunctions as cited above from Mahabharatha. As far as the Gaudiya tradition is concerned, the three times Gayatri japa of 10 times each of 7 mantras comprises the sandhya-upasthana part and the chanting of Gayatri mantras 10 times the each of 7 mantras (1 Brahma Gayatri and 6 pancaratra-format Gayatri) . In reality, today the brahmanas are going to work in factories and software companies... how many of them are actually performing the madhyanika sandhyavandanam along with its full angas? So is it not better to do the parts that are within our samarthya which is to chant the gayatri japa alone for atleast 10 times at tri sandhyas no matter what our situation is? For example as part of the annual upakarma the second day following the yearly upa karma day (in Tamil it is called Avani Avittam day) is dedicated to chanting just the Brahma-gayatri for specified number of times. Another example for chanting Brahma Gayatri mantra without accompanied by arghyadan, marjanam etc. is seen during the performance of shraddha ceremonies. After inviting the brahmanas and giveing them proper seat and during their bhojana time the karta or the adhikari has to sit in a separate place and chant 108 times Brahma-gayatri mantras until the brahmanas finish honoring the prasadam.

[@jaynityanandadas4965]

JND Response: Kindly provide the exact minute in the lecture you find this to better understan dyour question.

[@hansjaigadi833]

​@@damodara_BVKS Prabhu ji, Thank you so much for being so kind to take out your precious time to guide me with the precision. 🙏Dandavat Pranaams🙏

[@hansjaigadi833]

​@@jaynityanandadas4965Hare Krishna🙏

[@VijayRana78]

I have seen many many ancient photos in which craftsmen, coblers, blacksmith etc. i.e. shudras with upavita. How to understand that?

[@damodara_BVKS]

Pranam Prabhu. You can Check Sridhara Srinivasa Pr's book on "Female Diksa Gurus: Do we need them" He has a particular section in it discussing this point in detail. I would request Sridhara Prabhu to post the link to his book here. You may find this book with some devotee in Baroda itself. Then you can just see it directly.

[@jaynityanandadas4965]

JND Response: A good question. It would be nice to share some link(s) in this regard showing particular images you are talking about to better understand your question.

[@VijayRana78]

@@jaynityanandadas4965 KZbin deleted my reply with link. So I replied you in email.

[@VijayRana78]

@@jaynityanandadas4965 utub delits link so replied personally in email.

[@sumanacharjee2554]

Hare krishna🙏🙏🙏🙏❤

[@Subhadrapriyarani]

👏👏👏

[@mintuvishwakarma8975]

Hare Krishna

[@prafvalli]

All that Maharaj saying is raise up to the standards of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada decision were of emergency that time. Now the time atleast to bring back some standards. Not sure why so much of concerns on that.

[@sarthakdas-qr1mo]

My humble obeisances to all. But what about other Pancharatrika mantras for devotees who may not exhibit guna karma of a brahmnana?

[@sridharasrinivasadas79]

1. Under the Pancaratra system all irrespective of their gender and varna are eligible for taking up surrender process or prapatti-yogam. This means they are entitled to be purified by the panca-samskara process (tapa,, pundra, nama, mantra, and yaga) 2. Everyone is eligible to go back home back to Godhead through the pancaratra process and towards achieving this goal everyone is entitled to get first three samskaras that also includes Hare Krishna maha-mantra chanting. For all this universal process is all encompassing meaning Chanting of Hare Krishna includes the mantra and yaga through loud chanting of the Holy name in kirtana format (see CB madhya 1.407 purport for details). 3. Those who are qualified for mantra anc yaga (Deity worship) are given additional mantras in pancaratrika format as ordained in scriptures (yatha-vidhi). This means Brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya devotees (obviously male only) qualified for Deity worship get a full set 7-Gayatri mantras (Brahma Gayatri plus 6 pancaratrika mantras) along with sacred thread. Qualified women and sudra or lower devotees of the Lord do not get Brahma Gayatri and sacred thread, but are eligible to get the other 6 Gayatri mantras including the 18-Syllabled Krsna mantra. Women and Sudra or lower among men are allowed to worship Salagrama sila at home (see HBV commentary citing Padma and skanda purana for reference). 4. Most important point mentioned in the scriptures is the term "yathA-vidhi" or as ordained in the scriptures and DVAD system.

[@vkps108]

Hare krishna Who would execute the role of king in the varnashrama system you have envisioned? How would he be decided?

[@damodara_BVKS]

Hare Krishna. Good question and i am glad that you are thinking about it. The topic is vast and I would first suggest you to read the book Speaking on Varnasrama: A collection of Srila Prabhupada's quotes on this topic. It is available on the Vedabase with name "Varnasrama Dharma" under compilations section. Exactly how things would be done and established now is a question that needs thorough experience and discussion. It is not something like "how to peel a pine apple" type question. But certainly, getting thoughtful people like you will be a very good addition in thinking team. However, the comment section not meant for such deep discussions nor is it suitable for it.

[@jaynityanandadas4965]

JND Response: I appreciate your question, however, questions of this nature need elaborate background of Varnasrama society, and thus not suitable for “comment” section.

[@SridharSrinivasan-bm1xi]

I see that there are other experts of DVAD who have implemented and answered this point. But I just want to add my 2 cents. The qualities of the King are as described in Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam and other Vedic and Pancaratra scriptures. Gradually as we pick out the people based on their qualities and help them follow their respective samskaras a new generation of children will be born into a specific varna and continue their respective varna samskaras from birth. I discuss some of these points in the last part of my book under the title "Samskara is the linch-pin" of the book "Female Diksa-gurus, Do We Need Them?" In this book I also go in to elaborate refutation of the some of ISKCON liberals slaughter of DVAD system. Send me a private message if you are interested in getting a copy of the book.

[@balaramdebbarma3054]

Hare Krishna Maharaj Dandavat pranam... Maharaj. Can I ask one Question

[@krishiway200911]

Sri Bhakti Vikasa Swami, The word brahmana in the context of dwija or twice born means to say that the person is born as brahmana first to brahmana parents and by getting brahma gayathri he is taking second birth as brahmana fit to study vedas. In both seminal and ritual he should be qualified. This is the traditional varnashrama setup existing in India. Your idea that anyone getting brahmana diksha doesnt satisfy the above definition that qualifies a person in both ways as described above. Hence its accepted that all can only become vaishnavas or bhagavatas but not brahmanas (according to the above said definition). In India there are many traditional non brahmana vaishnavas or bhagavatas who are extremely devoted to Vishnu and non inimical to caste brahmanas like Srila Prabhupada who call them rascals! Sri Krishna asks ppl to respect even a fallen brahmana in Srimad Bhagavatam. A brahmana as per above said definition is fit to give diksha to the whole world if he becomes a sat vaishnava. On the other hand if he becomes brahma bandhu them he is unfit. He is never called a shudra (though its accepted that a sat shudra is better than a brahma bandhu) and Shudhra is not a wrong word either! Hope you will not work against Indian traditional setup as you very well know many traditional brahmanas who still stick to their dharmas in temples and remote villages and get only Rs1000 as their income and are simple hearted. If pure Indian cow breeds milk (sattva guna) are suitable for deity abhisheka and are now unfit due to not being taken care and are grazing in garbage, that milk is unfit to offer. But this doesnt give any room for jersey milk (tamo guna) to be used or offered for abhisheka! Both are respected as Mothers though and are creation of the Lord. This is how jAthi is understood and thats what Manu states as well his samhita that though there is birth based differences in humans its not visible like in animals. But its there. Lets accept this veda shastras and Manu who is grandson of Brahma's opinion and accept jathi at birth and different karmas associated and live in harmony going fwd. There's nothing wrong in evolving in our perception. Thank you so much.

[@sridharasrinivasadas79]

With all due respect and humility, I wish to point out several misconceptions in your comment. You stated that one gets a brahmana birth and gets second birth during upanayana and that is the only way for someone to become a brahmana ....but this is true iff and only if the boy child is born into a brahmana samskara practicing family or in other words is not born into a brahma-bandhu family. By your proposal, do you mean to say brahma bandus have no method to purify themselves and take up brahmincal practises? If this were true how come satyakama jabala who was born in a sudra family received brahmopadesam? How come Karna whose birth was not known to anyone and was known to have been brought up by a Suta was allowed to become the king of Anga desha or even allowed to be the senatipati? I can cite so many other examples of how people born in non-trai varnika families were elevated to the one of the trai-varnikas based on the quality they had exhibited. In the same way Ashvatama who was a well trained Brahmana became a brahma-bandhu and is still undergoing austerity and penances to become the next heavenly administrator in the upcoming next manvantara. He is still living in the same body since he is a chiranjeevi. Now your response doesn't address what are available options for a vratya or one who was properly born into a samskara but fell away and becomes a dvija-bandhu or did not follow the samskaras (especially yajno-pavita dharanam) at the due age duration ordained in the scriptures for a particular varna. There are prayascittam available both in Vaidika and Pancaratra systems to restore the varna of a vratya. In regards to elevate a low born (women sudra and lower) to a devotee or trai-varnika state pancaratra or tantra system ordains appropriate rules and regulations to elevate one to become a devotee. As part of pancaratrika system even a sudra or lower class of man can be made to a Brahmana by the process of diksha (yatha kancananam yati...). So please educate yourself with scriptures more so with commentaries of Vaishnava sampradaya acaryas such as Srila Prabhupada and then you will understand what point HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami Maharaja is making in this video.

[@krishiway200911]

​@@sridharasrinivasadas79 Fyki 1. Sathyakama was not a shudra nor his mother. They just don't know their gothra and having lost their relatives as she got married at very young age and couldn't decipher. On hearing the response from the boy Gautama Rishi recognised the boy was from brahmana family and gave him upanayana. As a Rishi he was deerga darishi to identify that. 2. Brahma bandhus can become a brahmana again when they start doing Sandhya vandana again and give up bad practices by satsanga. Vratyas are not brahmana bandhus but non initiated boys who are fit to be given upanayana. 3. All 40 samskaras from garbadhana till antyeshti are still followed today by office going caste Brahmanas. To make you understand, they are like office going devotees who are not asuras or rascals as depicted by Prabhupada or BVKS or Iskcon. 4. Like Karna Vali was also a king in Kishkintha. It doesn't mean he was a human but a vaanara. The 4 classes are there everywhere. In humans the rules are followed as per Manusmrti. He very clearly states there that varnas are by birth and samskara both. If you carefully read Manusmrti you will understand what I convey here. So Karna was made king is to be understood similar to Vaali kind of king and a possibility. In reality he was also a kshatriya by birth. So whats wrong in Karna being a king? 5. In bhAgavata dharma, there is no need for one to become a brahmana because it doesn't make any sense. A bhAgavata even a low born as candala becomes superior to a brahmana who is not a vaishnava. So? 6. Vishwamitra didn't transition from rajarishi to brahmarishi overnight. He tried very hard for 1000s of years upside down. This example is shown to make it very clear that change of varna is not a fairy tale or a diksha gimmick to make it happen. 7. Kula is from birth not from practice. A person can be a rowdy but born from brahmana caste and another can be a sat vaishnava but from shudra family. By Guna they are identified opposite of their caste but they don't swap their Kula dharma like shudra doing Nithya or naimittika karma done by a brahmana. You can't find one example from shastra as a generic practice followed. Pls go thru proper study of shastras from traditional vaidhika mutts and get clarity. All of your points didn't make any sense at all and hence I took some time to respond to all your points. Hope the above points give you some enlightenment. Hare Krishna.

[@ntyrlv]

Devotees who refuse varnasrama = sophisticated hippies. They may know some philosophy and Sanskrit verses, but their outlook is peace love compassion humanitarianism on mundane platform. Very much the norm in iskcon in many places. Krishna consciousness becoming a Hindu/new age movement or worse.

[@saktikrishna4708]

Hare krsna maharaj🙏. PAMHO. Prabhupad have mentioned the first 3 varnas are given sacred thread, the last varna doesn’t, thus getting brahmin diksa wouldn't actually make one a brahmana, no?🤔. In the gradual progress of raising consciousness, KC automatically starts to raise one to develop brahminical qualities, thus no one could continue to remain in the sudra level, there's just no way to remain as a sudra in KC even if one is illiterate...So, devotees engaged in menial service or even employed in menial services can't be equaled to sudras in any way, can they?🤔. The mistake seems to stemming from concentrating on the wrong demograph.... I truly feel establishing daivi varnasrama dharma in the western countries, rather than in India, is the missing piece of Srila Prabhupad's mission, where it will do great goodness for the betterment of everyone in the world, if it's just about elevating humanity into becoming ready to take up KC worldwide....Indians being Indians, are already equipped to go either up or down in the varnasrama system ladder....The western countries badly need varnasrama to be established and have the means and resources to make daivi varnasrama system work, but why isn't it being done ?😢

[@damodara_BVKS]

Srila Prabhupada answers your question in the same concersation that Guru Maharaja quotes (14 Feb 1977): --------- Prabhupāda: Not that a śūdra man is by force become a brāhmaṇa. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a śūdra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya sam... He'll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a śūdra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a śūdra can get perfection provided he does the work of a śūdra perfectly. Prabhupāda: Therefore why a śūdra artificially should be a brāhmaṇa? Let them, let him remain a śūdra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of śūdra, he'll also be as good as a brāhmaṇa. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, "Do the work of a leg," it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect. -------- And then SP says that even a non-brahmin or sudra is a vaisnava: ------- Satsvarūpa: Today you've been saying that the Vaiṣṇava is the highest, above the brāhmaṇa. But then we've also understood that everyone in ISKCON is a Vaiṣṇava. Prabhupāda: Yes. Vaiṣṇava everyone, even if he's not brāhmaṇa: jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-kṛṣṇera 'nitya-dāsa' But even if he remains a śūdra, he's a Vaiṣṇava. ------- I hope this satisfies the query.

[@jaynityanandadas4965]

JND Response: Devotees acting as Sudras and Women in Krsna Consciousness are more than Brahmanas, however, to demonstrate the ideal practices of Krsna’s Varnasrama culture, devotees should teach the mass by following Krsna’s plan i.e. Mother Draupadi and Mother Kunti did their own role as women. They didn’t fight with Brahmanas of their society to get into chanting Gayatri, which is primarily given for studying Vedas.

[@saktikrishna4708]

🙏🙏​@@damodara_BVKS

[@saktikrishna4708]

​@@jaynityanandadas4965🙏🙏

[@saktikrishna4708]

"...so, we have to save these madmen from further deterioration. This is Krishna consciousness movement...." Srila Prabhupada 12 /12/ 1973🙏

[@LewisHarison]

What about Lord Rama wanted to accept ravana

[@samspade2657]

?

[@navinkuckian1926]

🕉️🙏🪔🙏🪔🙏🪔🙏🪔🙏🪔🙏🪔🙏🕉️🙏

[@BgGN-n7s]

Pls in Hindi language

[@LewisHarison]

I am not happy with maharaj behaviour. He is hitting at base of spirituality. What ever is your past if you surrender to God you are free from sin. According to him Lord Nityananda should not accept Jagay and Maday.Or Narada muni should not accept Mrigari.Or Haridas should not accept prostitute.Or Jesus should not accept prostitute Maria Magdalena.Maharaj becoming smarta brahmana or fariseyas is Jesus time .Only bourn bramana need to be initiated this is wrong.Haridas initiated prostitute she became big Saint. Jagay and Madhay became big Saints.Maharaj is very sinful and wrong to see devote past same if you see deity as stone or Acarya as ordinary human.So Lord Ramacandra will accept even Ravana .Ravana was most sinful so Lord did not see this as big problem.If you surender to God all sin is gone in second. I NO THIS COMENT WILL BE DELITED. But maharaj this is not nice what you do hitting hard cord principles of religion.

[@akumarmalai]

Just go to other guru if you aren't happy. He is stating his policy.

[@user-st3zg2fr5i]

I see from your very offensive comment that you didn't listen clearly Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja deep explanation. You are deliberetively eluding and missing the essential point: giving brahmanical initiation into the varnasram system... No intiatiate devotee folowing rules and regulations of Krsna Conciousness could speak like you do! Shame on you!

[@BitanMondal07]

Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. I think you haven't watched this video before you commented. Kindly re-watch the video to clear your doubts.

[@samspade2657]

You have completely misunderstood. Maybe you should listen to it again. And also read all of SP's books. What he is saying is exactly correct.

[@ntyrlv]

You didn’t understand. Watch it again. And when you finish watching again, watch one more time.

[@contact3124]

Guru Maharaj with Your Srila Prabhupad mood You can never be wrong. 🙏🏼🙇🏻

[@bhaktivikasaswami_pt]

“You may call the Vedas Hindu, but ‘Hindu’ is a foreign name. We are not Hindus. Our real identification is varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama denotes the followers of the Vedas, those who accept the human society in eight divisions of varṇa and āśrama.” (Sri Isopanisad, introduction)

[@RadhaKrishna-xp1ku]

Hare Krishna dandavath pranam Guru Maharaj ki jai jai Sri la Prabhupada ki Jai 🙏🏽

[@Xxxlgey]

Hindu refers to those who were living after or near Sindhu river - Hindu (persian's mispronounced), indus (by Greeks ) Hindu is a geographical term rather than a religion.

[@circlestar8697]

True we are not Hindus or Hare Krsnas for that matter as these names are labels that uninformed people have attached to devotees. I totally agree with you on that point. But if someone is used to referring to the Vedic culture as Hindus or Hare Krsnas is it harmful to present ourselves in this manner as they know these terms? For example if you say your a Vedic Swami and they don’t know what that is. But they do know that the Hindu culture followed a certain lifestyle is it wrong to use a respected term that the general masses are familiar with short term until you can explain the intricacies of Vedic culture?

[@PrakashKhanchandani]

​@user-lh9cd8nq4j Sorry, but its not a mispronunciation, this land's people are called hindus even before these people came to Bharat as is clear from quite a number of literature available in Bharat at that time before the invasions.

[@ntyrlv]

@@circlestar8697 your question is tangential to the point of the quote. The quote is stating fundamental concepts regarding the nature of the KC movement while you are asking about the casual use of the word Hindu in a circunstancial approach to people who hardly know what you are talking about.

[@drunken_monkey2690]

Varnaashrama Dharma is birth based. That will never change. Anyone who attempts to change that will only be considered a Drohi by Bhagavan.

[@muraridas6337]

Our personal opinions do not count as we are imperfect conditioned souls.. The system is to quote sastra. Srila Prabhupada says in his Bhagavad-gita Commentary, Chapter 17, text 15, “Besides that, one should not talk nonsense. The process of speaking in spiritual circles is to say something upheld by the scriptures. One should at once quote from scriptural authority to back up what he is saying.”. Even if you are not a follower of Srila Prabhupada, this is a general and accepted principle among Sanatanis. So where is your quote? On the other hand as Maharaja mentioned in the lecture in the lecture, that Narada Muni (an authority on Bhakti Principles and Practices) said that we can accept someone born in one varna as another being in another varna if we see symptoms of that other varna. And Maharaja quoted Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.35. “If one shows the symptoms of being a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or sudra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.” So we should now being to follow Sanatana dharma according to sastra as it is supposed to be (Bhagavad-gita 16.23-4). In absence of proper knowledge of sastra we can take shelter of acaryas who base their life and teachings on sastra.

[@drrenukakansal8522]

The Lord says in Bhagvad Gita (4.13) cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: "This caste system is created by Me. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: "According to quality and according to work." That division in the human society, according to quality and according to work, is there everywhere in the world. Just like in God's creation there is sun, there is moon, there is seasonal changes, nobody can stop this, similarly the cātur-varṇyam, according to quality and karma, that division prevails all over the universe. Guṇa means the quality. There are three qualities in the material world: the quality of goodness, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. And either human being or animal or demigods or American or Indian, everywhere these qualities are working. So some of them are in the modes or quality of goodness, and some of them are in the quality of passion, and some of them are in the quality of ignorance. Those who are in the quality of goodness, they are called brāhmaṇas, or the intelligent class of men Intelligence means to know about the spiritual world also. Why they are called brāhmaṇas? Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. Brahmana means one who knows the spirit, One who has got complete knowledge of the spiritual world, he is called brāhmaṇa So these are qualitative divisions" Never says, "according to birth," . Although in India it is now misrepresentated that a brāhmaṇa's son is trying to designate himself as brāhmaṇa, but according to Bhagavad-gītā, that is not sanctioned. Bhagavad-gītā says, "according to quality." Indian caste system is now said to be hereditary. No, according to Vedic literature, it is according to the quality. And what is that quality? Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ: "Anyone who takes his birth, by his birth he's a śūdra." Śūdra means the lowest, in the lowest order. Even if he is born in the family of a brāhmaṇa, he is to be considered as a śūdra, janmanā, by birth. Birth is not all, everything. Saṁskāra means culture. One has to take his birth, rebirth, by culture, by education, by knowledge. So unless one is in the cultural birth, he is to be considered the lower grade person, or the śūdra. So there is some saṁskāra. There is some purificatory measures, which is called garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. if they give up this garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, birth-giving ceremony, then that family turns immediately to the classification of the śūdras. So this is the system of varṇāśrama-dharma, the whole idea is that everyone should be given the chance of being liberated in this very life. No more waiting for again for further, another life. Who knows that I am going to be human being again? It may be by freaks of nature I become a cat, a dog, a cow, an animal

[@tomashromnik108]

If someone is born as a brahmana, but he does not do brahmin activities and does not have brahmin skills, how can he be called brahmana? The same with kshatriyas and others. Use logic, no dogma please.

[@maheshani]

“The vitiated caste system of present India is never sanctioned by the scriptures,” Prabhupada wrote Indian Deputy Prime Minister Dr. Sardar Patel. “But the caste system is made by God according to quality and work of the subject and it was never designed for the benefit of accidental birth right.” (Letter to Dr. Patel, 28 February 1949, Calcutta) Just as, in the modern age, there is a necessity for engineers and medical practitioners, and they are properly trained in different scientific institutions, similarly, in former times, the higher social orders, namely the intelligent class (the brāhmaṇas), the ruling class (the kṣatriyas) and the mercantile class (the vaiśyas), were properly trained. Unfortunately in absence of proper training today, one simply claims that because he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is therefore a brāhmaṇa, even though he performs the duties of a śūdra. Corrupt brahmanas claiming power and privilege based on birth have obscured the truth and beauty of India’s original varnashrama culture. Such undue claims to being a higher-caste man make the system of scientific social orders into a caste system. This present day caste system is actually āsuri varnashrama. In this system the focus is on indriya-priti, or sense gratification and not on the realization of the Absolute Truth. Actually varnasrama institution was constructed to have smooth social intercourse and high-thinking self-realization. It was not for artificial domination of one division over another. As the society is in chaos today and there is no peace or prosperity, there is a great need to revive daivi varnashrama. (the original varnashrama created by the Lord). Varnashrama that elevates us from material to spiritual consciousness is called daivi, or divine. In BG (4.13). Lord Krishna, asserts, “According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me.” As parts of the body work together to serve the whole, in varnashrama four broad vocational groups cooperate to serve the social body. Also Bhagavatam says that the highest aim of life or the highest perfection of the institution of the varnasrama-dharma is to cooperate jointly for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. (SB 1.2.13) Hence one’s guna/quality and nature of work determines his varna (and not his birth) and by performing one’s work for the pleasure of Lord, one can perfect his human birth and realize his spiritual potential. By efforts of Srila Prabhupada and of his sincere disciples like HH Bhakti Vikas Swami, various attempts are being made to establish varnashrama communities. Such people are not drohi but are actually pure devotees of Lord who are abiding by the Lord’s instructions and preaching the message as it is.

[@sridharasrinivasadas79]

May we know your qualifications to make such a bold claim...please explain how satyakama jabala became a brahmana.

[@anikettandi8228]

Hare Krishna