My Problem With The Eternal Format

"just play standard lol"
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[@Snnuy]

How do you feel about Eternal?

[@damianoguglielmino8968]

Good😂

[@captain_mimi]

As the Lurker that i am, eternal is very challenging. But i 'm pretty bored of the meta, i don't think a lot of non-meta players will achieve master and that's make me a little sad.

[@tuesday4564]

its shitty

[@MarianaBello-fq3hx]

Great. I can play my daddy Draven and get excited whenever i look at his face.

[@kaputasri]

Will never touch it with a ten foot pole my Lee sin PTSD just kicks in.

[@godfreysneakily2802]

> Set up ranked queue but only for Standard so people play it. > Switch to Eternal. > Buff up "old favorites". > Power levels through the roof. >Players now miss Standard. wp Rito

[@Snnuy]

all part of their master plan

[@makaramuss]

cleaver* riot... now there are 2 riots with ephermal tag

[@tulicloure]

It really feels like they are setting it up to fail

[@candycanegunner]

But we can still play ranked in standard🧐

[@hoagie911]

You can still play ranked Standard, and it'll be the main format after Eternal hype dies down. This whole video is getting salty over nothing. Trash video.

[@AkiraGrim]

It was my exact fear, because it rotated the broken cards, it became a game mode around using the most broken card

[@tulicloure]

I also feel like these kind of buffs kinda kill the entire point of the Eternal queue. "We want to make sure there’s a place for every card to shine. Most importantly for Eternal, we think it’s a place you can express yourself more creatively." But then they go and make it a curated environment by overbuffing a small selection of cards to dominate and break the format.

[@provaprovaprovaaaa9667]

They should just revert the buffs to old card, that was the mistake

[@Wracu]

Wasn't this expected from the get go? The whole point of Standard is a limited card pool with a well controlled meta, with Eternal being a sort of bonkers anything goes environment.

[@foxinabox5103]

Yeah, it is to be expected :/

[@joaovictor_of]

Yeah, I don't understand why anyone would be surprised by that. I guess I just knew how it would be like because I experienced the introduction of Wild in Hearthstone and ultimately how healthy it was for the game. It is impossible to have a "balanced" eternal format. The amount of cards means that you can't expect to play "fun" decks and win agains mega optimized decks with powerful cards from the past. It is also hard to keep nerfing decks in eternal because each new expansion and cards can completely break some decks because of unexpected and powerful synergies. Now, I dont understand why they can't have 2 ranked modes, like HS does (I believe), so you can climb in whichever mode you like best.

[@nekonochesire6023]

@@joaovictor_of Yes it was obvious, and that's what people had been complaining about with Rotation, that it was just a way to dump the "problematic" cards. I don't know if you were on the LoR subreddit, but a lot of defense for rotation was that 1) rotated cards still playable in eternal and 2) Riot said they would still balance eternal. Turns out, like most predicted they won't be able to keep eternal balanced and so will end up dropping it and all the rotated cards are pretty much erased from the game.

[@olzlo9804]

Snnuy wanna enjoy his time, but everybody is too sweaty and won't let him, i can feel his pain

[@tulicloure]

It's expected that it would have a higher power level naturally due to new cards interacting with old ones (like Snnuy said with Sett/Trundle). But intentionally buffing old cards to be broken on purpose is a terrible decision, and completely unnecessary to make Eternal feel more powerful.

[@kroth3049]

The mistake the devs made is they forgot things like Draven and Poppy where nerfed when the game only had an eternal format and then not allowed in standard because even in their nerfed state they were seen as too strong.

[@travisprescott9708]

Poppy and draven were too strong in there nerfed state? Those 2 barely saw play before rotation.

[@kroth3049]

Too strong for standard

[@notarealperson8956]

It turns out that putting all the cards into one format wont suddenly create the perfect casual "do whatever you want" format but rather just mean people can hyperoptimize the already good decks.

[@TheRagingAura]

If we were to make an analogy, it would be like putting every animal known to man in one environment and expecting domesticated cats to reign supreme.

[@notarealperson8956]

@@TheRagingAura Why do the sharks keep beating my carrier pigeon tribal?

[@xolotltolox7626]

Idk what else they were expecting, or why they were even expecting something else when the same thing already happened with Magic The Gathering and basically every other card game

[@helloneighbour2408]

@@xolotltolox7626 not even just with card games. Everything suffers from this

[@Closer2Zero]

I’m STILL mad about what they did to Sundisc and how if i want to play and enjoy Sundisc as a halfway decent deck, it has to be in eternal against all these other far more insane decks

[@strangeperson6969]

Well, Xerath had to leave, i guess.

[@PlebCentre]

Admittedly sundisc kinda made playing control/timmy type decks borderline impossible because flipping essentially meant insta-win (which I achieved turn 5/6 consistently), so the only real counter was more aggro, which is ass.

[@laggrenade863]

Xerath broke sundisk. Xerath going means Azir, Nasus and Renekton Sundisk can be viable in standard.

[@Closer2Zero]

@@laggrenade863 sundisc is anything but viable. Maybe if they had left some of the other tools, but in its current form it's really just unpleasant

[@Narutimake]

Sundisc being good just forces aggro to be even more present in the meta since is the only way to consistently beat a Sundisc flip on turn 5/6

[@tulicloure]

Riot: shoots Eternal Riot: "Look at what those powerful cards like Poppy did"

[@joshwew9551]

Simple solution would be to split balance between Eternal and Standard, but that would divide the LoR balance team as they have to work double time in this case

[@percyvile]

MTG Arena's alchemy format does this ("balances" cards that remain unchanged in other formats), it's not been very well received: Having a card do different things in two formats is really bad for gameplay, you shortcut what each card does in your head and suddenly it's harder to track what effects have or can happen. It is better to print fixed versions of cards and let the old card rotate, you can balance it after but they need to be destinct.

[@zepperman2679]

@@percyvile I don't think they meant have cards in Standard do things differently in Eternal, just have a separate balance team for cards specifically in Eternal, and the Eternal balance team would make changes in response to Standard changes.

[@tulicloure]

How does that help when the exact issue is because they buffed cards that exist only in Eternal?

[@mesterzombi6632]

​@@percyvile Yeah, I don't think anyone wants that, that would be confusing for even regular players, not to mention new players. I think they should just balance Standard as much as they can, and make a few changes to Eternal when something becomes too oppressive. The whole reason for rotation is that balancing cards became more difficult, after a while they will have to abandon Eternal. I think the last patch was meant to be kind of a last big fix for the format.

[@youngachilles1352]

As a relatively new player that only started playing after rotation, i must say that eternal instantly felt very off to me. I started my standard journey playing ashe/lb, moving to leone/kayle and then to jax/orrn. So having found great success by playing basically only midrange in standard it felt very weird that these types of decks had basically no place at all in eternal. I would only ever face either ultra aggro or ultra burn/control with nothing allowed in between. I get that powerlevels are meant to be higher in eternal but it sadly feels like that powerlevel is only centered around a very few powerful cards, leaving everything else in the dust and forcing the meta into monotonous extremes

[@melvinraysena8727]

Sorry if you felt that way. I do hope eternal won't scare you away. To be honest, I can see now rotation and ban list are important to CG like LoR. I can compare this to YCG where they release consistent ban list because people will find ways to "break" the game.

[@doruka890]

Yeah but thats because those cards were rotated so that midrange can exist in standard. The point of eternal is people once in a ehile go play their fav cards that were rotated. It isnt meant to be balanced, fun etc. For balance and fun we have standard

[@1221bo]

@@doruka890 If that were true it would be awesome but then why are the runeterra opens in eternal?

[@doruka890]

@@1221bo I think/hope its a one time thing

[@nooloo5968]

Every new player in any card games will feel like they been thrown into wildfire in Eternal format as expected As much as you hoping jumping into Eternal for go wild build seems exciting ar first you have to remember there reason why Riot make Standard so that shit wont be uncontrollable for competitive nature for people who enjoy streamlined gaming balance However, we might be lucky considering Riot can make changes than most card company around the world due to their game meant for digital while most are physical card games

[@rkoking226]

This is an issue for any external or legacy format that has every card available. It's gonna be a fast pace, highly tuned meta where meme decks and unoptimized decks can't thrive no matter what they do.

[@blatetastic]

I think content creators are facing the same problem in eternal format. Mogwai also talked about this for a bit in his video yesterday. The meta in eternal is just so fast and so much same strong deck that the fun deck/meme deck cant really preform.

[@malaghoselor]

When you uploaded your first eternal video, you were explaining why you were playing eternal and not standard. The way I interpreted it was that you didn't like the power level gap between meme decks and competitive decks in standard. With this video, you are saying the same thing but for eternal. I don't think you can keep this mindset and be happy with the game long term. There's always going to be a large gap between the meme decks and competitive decks. After looking at the standard meta statistics just now, I see you'll be playing against Karma Sett, Samira Fizz, and Kai'Sa which combined represent 22.5% of standard. You're still going to have this issue in standard. I recommend playing Standard Casual where you are more likely to run into low power decks and you can use instant concedes as a ban tool to avoid playing against overpowered meta decks.

[@peschionator7873]

Honestly ladder is as overrated as it can get. Got masters once and never touched ranked again. High elo is full of meta slaves, you cant expect to match against non-tier 1 decks above plat.

[@AzemSP]

I really really don’t understand why people thought meme decks were gonna shine in the higher power meta. Has no one played modern or any other game with an eternal format?

[@GR1M_LOR]

The best way to balance Eternal is to have a larger buff/nerf, and make the nexus health 25. Aggro will only ever get buffs, control will never get good enough tools to help them compete without disrupting standard. Slowing the game itself down a turn is the perfect balance point in my opinion.

[@exu7325]

Who decided that Eternal is the "creative and innovative" (read: meme) format? Ladder is ladder.

[@Snnuy]

L, who decided it wasn't? "A place where old favorites get their chance to live their best life" aka 3 decks total

[@exu7325]

@@Snnuy Like I said, the ladder decided it wasn't.

[@spoonfyter]

I never understood why Poppy needed high attack but low health. It felt in character for me for her to have high health and build up her allies and herself to higher power. Lower power means she buffs less things and higher health means she has more chances to level up. I could see her being a 1/4 or maybe even a 2/4 and being healthy even in standard. Escaped Abomination could see some experimentation I think at a higher or lower mana cost, a 2 mana 4/2 or 3/3 that costs 2 cards will never feel good.

[@joselmancomancoconhonor9757]

Wait! Are you telling me that if they print new aggro cards, in a game with already amazing aggro decks , and they even revert back nerfs they did to meta defining aggro cards. Aggro will be dominating! Wow! Now for real, two issues regarding this is: - Play and cast merge broke ezreal. This was foreseen and just ignored for many months - Aggro has been just better than everything else in the game (No surprise the best keyword is elusive) has also been a long ignored issue. In standard they took out most of the cards that were good against aggro and now only place to hold against them is in ethernal, where they are better

[@joselmancomancoconhonor9757]

On top of this, Noxus being the best aggro and control region is a problem

[@tulicloure]

Yeah... I've been saying this since they reverted Atrocity intentionally to be broken in Eternal literally ONE MONTH after nerfing it. I don't know how to read their balance philosophy for Eternal as anything other than "we don't care if Eternal feels miserable to play in", which is extremely sad. Eternal would already have a higher power level naturally due to new cards interacting with old ones and the bigger card pool. Forcing stuff to be broken is a terrible design direction, and it goes contrary to the goal of making Eternal a format that rewards creative deckbuilding and gives a room for all sort of cards to shine.

[@stansuperman0728]

I personally don't understand these reverts on cards in Eternal. They were nerfed for a reason, why change it back? Nostalgia?

[@murillomesmo8189]

The thing that made me stop runeterra on the first week of eternal ranked was in 10 games getting 9 aggro's and simply losing at turn 4 to 6 without being able to do anything about it no matter how good my hands were

[@AbsoLucian]

Standard Ranked is still around

[@MicheleeiRettili]

I never understood why they did those un-nerfs ... and furthermore: i never understood why they never nerfed ezreal to always do 1 damage to nexus.

[@Snnuy]

Yeah I can understand some of the reverts to give back some community favorite decks, but I highly doubht poppy/ziggs super aggro was ever considered a favorite lol

[@MicheleeiRettili]

@Snnuy eh, be careful: you are talking to a person that secretly enjoys Azirelia decks over any other, so i guess there is also a fair share of people who actually enjoy poppy😂😂😂

[@Oncus2]

It's kinda funny. With all of the rotated cards Eternal was THE format for creative deckbuilding where you so many tools to use. But instead Eternal is even more limited than Standard because it has so many strong cards that are hard to compete against.

[@gavinkayson99]

With my experience with mtg eternal formats, it is home to THE most powerful decks in the game and I feel that's how it should be and I think that runeterra players have been spoiled a bit by just having one umbrella format where they tried to keep everything playable and minimized and obviously I understand that there are differences between a digital tcg and a physical one in how they're balanced, but that's the nature of power creep. Some cards will age well and benefit from synergies of new cards and some won't. Eventually we're gonna get to the point where the format settles and we're gonna see the same decks all the time and maybe your old favorite cards that got rotated just won't be playable anymore. They may have even been standard all stars but with power comes speed. But that's just my perspective maybe I'm missing a few bits of context in comparison.

[@AzemSP]

Super agree, so many people crying that their meme decks don’t work in a higher power meta. Bro they didn’t work in standard, they aren’t gonna work when we have even more cards to work with.

[@marcopspspsps]

You're right, but old cards aren't buffed or nerfed in MTG. If they stayed like a snapshot of it's last iteration good, but if they are buffed? Then its not just about Synergy

[@gavinkayson99]

@@marcopspspsps Iirc, a lot of the buffs of the most powerful cards that got rotated out of standard were just reverts of previous nerfs which, in mtg, would've either meant they would have left things the way they were or would've banned the card outright.

[@dzello]

Most of your critics apply to every single card games outside of this one. The fact is you get tons of tools to create amazing decks, but people will just play netdecked meta stuff. The only good thing about card games in my opinion is the brief period when new cards are released and people can't netdeck yet because the meta is eastablished. It's the small timeframe during which players are forced to actually play the game how it's meant to be: by making original decks.

[@antjoz1928]

idk why they buffed the cards that had already been played a lot instead of some niche cards that never really seen play. I love Tahm Kench Soraka but that deck is simply unplayable in a format with desintegrate and flock so i kinda hoped to see some buffs around them. Unfortunately no luck for me

[@foxinabox5103]

Or how ashe lb absolutely shit on formidable decks

[@imUmoron]

Zillian cant burst speed lethal you during an enemy's action (attacking or during a spell/skill). At least Zillian gives you initiative between each time bomb. Whats frustratimg about Ezreal is that he can still kill you while you checkmate him. I think something needs to be done about him, even if hes in eternal. Maybe his missile thing triggers at Round End (like you stack up his missiles, and he flurries them all at nexus at round end) so you can actually save your instant answer towards him like what you could do after the cast/play changes. It also adds actual risk reward with Ezreal players that force them to play around enemy answers. But yeah, it makes me mad that people think Ezreal is okay, he needs a REWORK.

[@ThanhTran-hr8nw]

Yeah totally agree with you on ezreal 3 cards burst speed -14 hp is just straight up bs. The charm of runeterra is super interactive gameplay, we have 4 different spell speed and can interact at pretty much any time even on attack and somehow still get burst speed lethal even if you play the game perfectly???. Completely insane

[@gojiratar1132]

For a good chunk of the vid I didn't realize he was referring to the uncaged abomination and not poppy whenever he said "Abomination" lmao

[@xarmarpapoutsis6294]

only thing i didnt like about the last expansion was : if you didnt buy the pass you would get so few cards... and even if you did , compared to older passes still . i clearly remember kaisa eve would get you so many cards and even champions just from playing without buying , the free ones would give you something like 6 champions in total, and eternal is a shitshow

[@percyvile]

No pets :(

[@foxinabox5103]

And is it just me or is it much harder to reach max lvl in the pass? And the mission also got a lot harder as well. And also more specific and grindy I dont mind those kinda missions, but grinding vs bot with a nami deck for like an hour or two is not fun...

[@asrieldreemurr1988]

@@foxinabox5103 yeah I don’t like that they removed the alternate conditions to complete the quests that were in all the early battle pass

[@elnazknl4517]

I read some of these comments and my god xD people can't stand someone having an opinion

[@Rickyanddor15]

Buffing the stuff that is strong instead of buffing the weak stuff was a pretty weird move

[@Gaze73]

Yeah it's like they forgot why they nerfed those cards in the first place.

[@bellifrancesco8548]

This. I thought they were rotating cards like vladimir to try risky buffs, instead they just reverted draven and poppy for some reason

[@user-ou4xz1ip2n]

That is the same problem with Hearthstone 's wild format. I remember only Tokken Druid or Pirate Warrior reaching the top rank even tho there where some decks that was doing just fine but they where more interactive.

[@provaprovaprovaaaa9667]

I stopped playing 2 years ago but I reached legend with the warlock that cheated out giants a lot of time.

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Eternal is a playable banlist, it shouldn't ever be treated as a "real" mode.

[@Dragoonslim3]

It feels eternal

[@MrJedi515]

How I feel about eternal: Cloak Matriarch recall lissandra trundle with like 10 ramp cards and avalanches/ravines. Step 1, vomit your 8 mana, step 2 turbolevel lissandra in a single turn, step 3 burst attack with watcher (retreat/return combo). Like what can they do? And you have avalanches against aggro plus recalls against stinki enemy units.

[@fridegost]

shout out to chads that play off-meta/meme decks in eternal, absolute mad lads

[@Chickensea10]

MEMES FOR THE WIN

[@fishingbrosstudios383]

I think the solution to the eternal format issue is having a standalone seperate hidden elo. If meme decks keep loosing they will be able to face meme decks while people who only play tier 0 and keep winning will face tier 0.

[@exu7325]

There's already a standalone separate mode for meme decks. It's called casual games.

[@faselfasel2864]

I heavily disagree here. LoR was always a game that was heavily influenced by its content creators and the decks they played, becausw of how easy it is to copy/share everything. This comes with the detriment of people playing "meta" a lot more than if access to decks would be more limited and people couldn't copy each other as easy. Now eternal has everything for smart/dedicated deck builders, but it might not be the format for content creators. You have to be willing to experiment and optimize a lot to find success with off-meta decks there. I myself find eternal ranked very enjoyable because of it. I can consistently build new decks in half a day that are able to beat most metadecks. I wouldn't want to play any other gamemode. I don't want to keep up with rotations or be limited in my choices of cards.

[@PariswhoVlog]

The problem I have with eternals is the way riot wants to balance it as thee “giga” mode instead of trying to keep things relatively balanced. One of the best ways to keep eternals balanced and fun is to keep rotated cards balanced as they were. Maybe you buff some really weak things and have some more leeway with experimental buffs but once a card is rotated it should sit at or around the same power level as you don’t really have the time or energy to keep things balanced but if sets are balanced against each other as they are rotated things are kept relatively balanced even if you have to hammer out the outliers later. Idk if any of that makes sense.

[@TheJameswaters2010]

It's not as simple as "keep it as it was". The whole point of rotation is that some eternal cards limited card design because they were too broken with new cards. So if you release eternal with no balance changes, you'll encounter the same problem as right now, but instead of poppy and Draven dominating, you get samira and sett decks with all the old eternal backup. There's no real easy solution because the only way to balance eternal is to buff old decks (as they did). The problem with that then, is that unless they buff every single archetype, which is extremely unrealistic, they have to pick and chose which decks will be strong. Now, trundle sett ftr is still strong, but Draven sion is also capable of matching them. The issue with eternal is that there's always going to be a big gap between tier 1 and tier 2, so riot is always going to need to chose which cards are able to keep up with tier 1.

[@valun360]

A competitive eternal format is always going to be hyper powerful. Any meme decks in an eternal card game either need to be played in a casual setting (not ladder) or accept that they're going to get rocked over and over.

[@hanklin8567]

After they decided to do rotation: Hey why remove my favs from ranks? Standard sucks. After eternal season started: Well I guess some cards indeed have to get excluded. I had problem with eternal. Also me: keep losing in both environment because of my poor understanding of this game. No difference 🙃

[@anametoignore2286]

I got into an argument on the LoR subreddit with a guy saying I was surprised they made the eternal ranked this early because it's going to push the format Prior to Eternal Ranked the standard had some aggro but it was really poorly optimized, now for the next few months anyone hopping on standard eternal is going to go up against a turn 4 kill deck crafted by the best players with all the most annoying cards

[@dragomaster2422]

I agree with Snnuy. However, I think that eternal is more for all players to be able to play their old cards and use any skins for the champions they have rather than having a balanced, unique meta from standard. If they didn’t have eternal, then they should give wildcards and refunds to the cards and champion skins rotating out which would not be financially great for Riot Games. It ends up being an unbalanced game for eternal while standard is the focus. My solution is that I think that when Riot Games does rotation, they should immediately replace the champions they rotate out and all cards rotated out are permanently gone, not thrown into eternal. It could then be compensated to give players wildcards for cards that are rare or common (maybe epic too, but I am not too sure about it). That way they can change unhealthy text or interactions while also not having to deal with eternal being the only way you could enjoy Zoe.

[@joshmcleod8194]

I think this is the point of eternal format is the thing. Its supposed to be unbalanced chaos. Theres some argument whether it should have a ranked system because of that, but its a way for riot to give us our more balanced game mode with standard but also let people play old cards.

[@Od_Ka]

I mean guys what did you even expect? Don’t you have hearthstone’s wild format being the humongous boiling cauldron of cringe as a greatest example?

[@Lostenoch]

Because cards have picked up the pace so much do you think raising the nexus hp to 30 would give enough spacing to allow more play?

[@DustD.Reaper]

What it feels like for me is that one th fun/competitive scale Eternal is tilting way too much towards the competitive side instead of the just more fun side (which is actually something that happend to the real ARAM in league aswell) with people who cant sweat in Standard (or normals) decide to tryhard in the more fun oriented Eternal (or ARAMs) and make it practically impossible to have fun with some troll decks (or item builds) and taking away the freedom that was given by the less competitive enviroment because if you wanna do some trolling to have fun, you will just get stomped and would have a more interactive expirience if you would watch paint dry on a wall

[@exu7325]

If you hate competition, play normal games. Problem solved.

[@DustD.Reaper]

@@exu7325 you dont get my point, both League and LoR seem to get more and more pushed towards a competitive oriented playerbase while ignoring casual players, it doesnt matter which mode youre trying to play because everyone seem to just sweat as hard as they can in whats supposed to be fun modes you play to escape this very competitiveness

[@exu7325]

@@DustD.Reaper Eternal is not a "fun mode", it's just a no banlist mode. Ladder is ladder, eternal or standard. Also, normal games aren't competitive by definition.

[@BaileyyyT]

As a fairly new player to LoR the problem that comes with eternal season seems really similar to when riot brings URF to league its super fun when you don't take it seriously with new pacing and tons of new ideas to try but a lot of people enjoy winning and that's fine but it slowly consumes the game mode until no one can have much fun unless they are playing the top tier decks. I think the problem is brought to the forefront in lor because most people especially new won't have all the eternal cards and have to choose one maybe two decks to try so they are natural going to gravitate to the decks that are proven to work. Enjoy my ramble

[@kyrntheharpooner4150]

I would like if they keep eternal chaotic and etrrnal ladder shouldn't even exist, this bring extra balance work to do and might affect the standard plays

[@bellifrancesco8548]

Eterna ladder is not the problem. But eternal open is a weird decision.....

[@Rolyatack]

The fact that you lost vs that Ez game is insane. I'd be done playing for the day after that one, holy

[@superboyok_]

the hearthstone curse, comes back to bite us in the ass

[@percyvile]

Do you think eternal would bet better with a higher starting life total to compensate for the efficiency of agro? Or do you think that would just drive us further towards combo decks?

[@Snnuy]

Doubt it would work because Ryze and Ezreal exist :/

[@_chishika_]

@@Snnuywhat if combo decks, one shots, were nerfed to do certain amounts of life total, eg star spring deals 10 to enemy nexus each round once levelled, ryze levelled attack is 15 to enemy nexus, fiora levelled is 15 damage and subsequent kills are just 5 or smth, you get the general idea, different amounts based on the difficulty. Then incorporate a higher life total in eternal, so they have to pull of their combo several times, eg 30 life total

[@user-uv6qu3wb5d]

@@_chishika_ but then it’s like, not exodus instakill? But that’s the point of those cards?

[@_chishika_]

@@user-uv6qu3wb5d that’s a good point but the only thing i can say is that it’s for the sake of balance, sure it’s not a oneshot, but it sets you up to win, and these decks shouldn’t struggle closing out the game afterwards. Think deep decks or maokai win cons, even lissandra watcher, they put the game into an immensely favourable spot for the person who managed to reach their wincon, without removing victory outright from the opponent. even a sol follows this rule. ez is obviously the outlier, but he’s also broken so he just needs a redesign completely.

[@kierantheninja3008]

As a Magic player I really like Eternal. High power level formats are faster and aggro is usually a staple. Eternal feels like a blast from the past with a lot of old decks seeing love they couldn't otherwise. It sucks that meme players get run over by aggro in Eternal, but high power formats usually aren't for meme players. New cards are built for Standard which is less hostile to homebrews

[@nekonochesire6023]

The problem is that there's just less brewing possible for meme deck in standard with 1/3 of the cards missing.

[@kierantheninja3008]

@@nekonochesire6023 true but Standard will fill out over time. This is their first rotation so there's holes in regions that will get filled in with new sets

[@centurionprodigy5157]

i understand eternal being the bonkers mode and standard being what they really want to balance, with ranked in mind, but i would like to see more rotations, even if we end up with sometimes aggro for a bit, because if not it just gets boring with the same decks faster since you don't have as many cards to get creative. i would like to have rotation be 3 or 4 times a year, and you don't need to rotate all that much beetween rotations either, something like just adding 1 more ramp spell could have huge impact on the meta nd freejlord in general, for instance.

[@eizhamm4820]

Standard exists for players who like to enjoy playing what a game is meant to be. I used to play standard in hearthstone for a long time and simply avoided wild because of what I heard of how unbalanced the mode could be. I loved standard because I enjoyed playing my favourite cards but after rotation I moved over to wild because I couldn't obtain that fun I had back in the day and I was burned out completely from standard. I am now an eternal format player in all card games I have played so far. The main thing about having different modes is to have something for everyone, fun is the main keyword here. Wild and eternal are no where close to being balanced but they are what keep me playing and keep enjoying the game. I am against eternal not being always available because I would just move over to another game and probably forget about lor. POC exists and is super popular as well. Just different strokes for different people, we can't all feel the same. Thank you

[@nullpo2478]

During 1st week of rotation and now, my stance still haven't changed. Runeterra is still not ready for rotation, the card pool of eternal still feels better for me. They really should introduce hearthstone style expansion (all class/region gets equal amount of cards) before they even touch rotations. The only difference right now with eternal ladder is that people and content creator who barely touch the mode before have to re-adapt to old cards they never have to think before imo, so it feels busted. Basically people treat eternal ladder like week 1 expansion with samira galore, except eternal ladder will never have the time to clear it's name because it's only 1 month in duration so the real meta and real meme deck will never have any time to mature.

[@maxbr5860]

true

[@breadO0]

Disagree. Unrotated card pool has too much synergy and every region is good at everything basically. I don't think it should work like that.

[@nullpo2478]

@@breadO0 True, but if they really want to rotate right now and fix that issue, they can't release card at current rate. Imo it's way too slow and by the end of the year when every region is on equal footing getting their own expansion, three months later the cycle is reset and only a few region is strong. Plus pre rotation I think only ionia, pnz, and noxus turn into jack of all trades. The rest of region is still quite specific. Like demacia is still the big dudes no draw region, freljord the ramp region, etc. So even if they delay rotation till next year and prepare some bigger expansion first, it should be of no issue.

[@Ahbraxaz]

All your arguments are correct, the un-nerfing of the cards you mention overshadowed the released cards (specially the altar), however given that the current balancing focus is now gonna be shifting back and forth between Eternal and Standard for a little while, I believe that what the balancing team is doing is testing the grounds on Eternal, given the fact that many new cards have been added, maybe they could counterbalance some of the power they once held. However at the end of the day, Eternal is a format that is supposed to be overpowered, it is ALL the cards that are available, and due to the plethora of interactions it can only be balanced via testing in a wild west scenario. As for Ezreal, he was, is and will forever be, a problem card until it's properly reworked, and I am not defending that prick of a card xD

[@soulduelist2673]

Petition to make different patch for different format like standard have its own nerf and buff, eternal have its own nerf and buff

[@fanficologist6621]

And needing to allocate double the budget and human resource to balancing? For a game mode that is supposed to be all-in ball-to-the-wall? Dream on.

[@goofball3158]

I used to play Hearthstone a lot and specifically played wild. (Hearthstones version of Eternal.) When new cards get added from the newest expansion, usually older decks would get new tools to become strong and rarely a new deck would be meta. OR The new mechanics of the most recent set were so overturned that they were meta even in wild. Hearthstone and Runeterra are very different games, (Runeterra is a million times better imo) but it makes a lot of sense to me that people want to play with broken strong decks in the format without rotated cards.

[@bumerang6525]

I think they buffed,reverted wrong cards the meta is so fast now and you cant do anything about it

[@tiziana3143]

my issue was that the lit first ranked on eternal i played against a diamond, then plats, my bf who just started playing, got the same issue, first ranked of his life and played against a plat1. Now neither me or him wants to play anymore :/ its just unfair.

[@Evan-mt7bc]

Yea these Eternal formats usually devolve into cringe. Pokemon's variation "Unlimited" is overrun by an archetype that can win on the word go because they can clear your opponent's opening board then discard their entire hand and win by decision because your opponent literally has nothing and there's no counterplay to it so much so they had to create another format called "Expanded" which is just the Unlimited format but every card that wins on turn 1 is banned.

[@joshshaver8405]

I personally never understood having rotation if they were just going to "balance" Eternal. Only going to lead to the issue before rotation til we need to rotate Eternal, XD The only way to make Eternal somewhat even is to make everything back at its insane power levels before they were nerfed in past patches and make every new card rise to that power level. It follows the logic where, if everything is broken, nothing is. Of course certain decks will always be stronger than others but it just takes me back to, rotation was pointless seeing how Eternal is shaping out to be

[@lovereno5958]

Tbh i love comeptitive formats where your play making is just as important as deck strength. The difference in even aggro players between challenger level and iron is massive. I agree we should nerf ez and buff midrange but i dont think riot should prioritize meme cards that randomly win games. Its a feel bad sitituation when someone drops howling abyss and high rolls the hell out of you with it because all of your play making just didnt matter because they dropped a land mark that says "flip a coin and call it, if you called it correctly you win the game." Just as much as losing to ez is just "did you get to kill them before they no board state killed you?" Push midrange, aggro, control and some combos. Dont push randomized memes and uninteractive combos.

[@leaf_of_the_wind]

As much as I love Poppy, easily my most played champ in League and in LoR purely because of my attachment to the character, I really don’t like her role in most decks. She’s just another part of a go-wide aggro deck that wants to beat your opponent down. I wish she was designed more like her League version, a tanky anti-carry, made to stop the enemy from doing what they want to do. I’m sure people would hate a Control version of Poppy, but it’s probably better than Poppy Ziggs / Poppy Zed

[@hannahlucia7603]

Rotation is healthy for card games, but with them focusing on there balancing on standard, eternal is slightly pointless. Which is sad since Runeterra just isn't a normal card game. We like the champions and the cards because of there story or other games. So its sad to see them relegated to a game mode that gets not the same level of care. I feel Runeterra's identity was slightly tied to this idea of all these card with these mechanical and lore interactions. Cool and crazy combos. I understand this is just my opinion, but it sucks to see alot of my favorite cards be put into a unbalanced game mode.

[@roubaromeucarneiro5144]

I basically just play normal games with timebomb printer, since I can play it, I'm happy

[@emanuelevigo9864]

I was about to defend the Ezreal and Seraphine win too since they had to set up the 2 Bars, but then I realized a key mistake I was making, *Burst Lethal* in a Game all about Interaction with the Opponent plays is... Wrong, and I completely stand by Sunny's and Mogway side.

[@schaedli177]

my only problem with eternal is the fact that while i'm collecting cards most of the rare cards i'm getting have been rotated... i think i got three katas my luck is as high as the flagglent in DD2 is healthy and free of sicknesses

[@sovitus5991]

Kindred players got cucked. They aren't nearly as strong as most eternal banned cards and could still find a place in Nasus decks now since Thresh is gone. They were never really oppressive even when they were 'meta' and with Atrocity gone you've essentially taken away their main win con 'make 'em thiccc and yeet into the nexus'. Now you either need even more control or give them overwhelm to do damage. One of the strangest changes rotations if you asked me.

[@DapperPoomper]

I like these kinds of videos! Also, I agree with everything!

[@palmateofanantler]

Even if we get all the new fancy and fun cards, most people usually have one reason as to why they play: to win. As long as any method allows them, they will do anything to get a W because playing for fun just doesn't cut it for some. I've been trying to play the new Weaponmaster cards with the whole Forge archetype and trying to setup a leveled Ornn yet every match I can't even get pass round 5 without dying because of Aggro decks. There's just no fun and creativity anymore and it's sad to see it get worse and worse. Even in casual I get matched with Aggro decks and I wonder if my enemy gets the same satisfaction playing such decks if we're just playing casually. I hope the team behind LoR does something to bring back any sort of fun and creativity to the game.

[@bananassaultable]

rotation was the solution but they rotated the wrong cards

[@ManicRipper2]

For me its the matchmaking for eternal ranked. Started playing from IRON and was mattched against MASTERS. Not standard mode masters, but opponents that are currently ETERNAL MASTERS while I'm currently iron/bronze

[@ethanpritt542]

This game moves to damn fast for me sheesh.

[@tomhood6324]

Hi snnuy, i hope you do more videos like this, very enjoyable :)

[@alessandrodellanno948]

I love eternal but you just have to take the right approach/mindset. It's like playing edh in magic, where almost 100% of cards are legal. There's gonna be broken stuff,but it allows for very cool gameplay.Which is something that standard does not. It's boring because it's supposed to keep everything in check.

[@divieleischranjan3770]

KInda hated eternal from the start because it felt like a gamemode in which people just play broken decks all the time. I would rather stick to standard at this point in time

[@juanpabloaguilarlobaton3735]

Completely agree with you. I'm not even that much of a meme player but, like, if I'm playing Eternal, it's gonna be to test some weird idea or just to revive a deck I like to play (RIP Viktor/Yi, it wasn't even good but I really loved it). The last thing i want to do in Eternal is play against decks that will end the game before I can even think of playing my deck. From my point of view, the place for those super optimized decks should be standard, where they have to compete against other super optimized decks (that being said, please never un-rotate Ezreal or Poppy), with Eternal having lower powerlevel to allow rotated cards to shine. And it'd be better if they were cards that people actually liked, like Tri-beam, or Asol, hell even Vladimir or Taric. Why buff Poppy, one of the most hated champions ever?

[@ianvera5515]

I think most people made unrealistic expectations about the format given all the knowledge we had, at least for me these was exactly what I was aiming for, also it is really early on the format to give up on it and doom it, one week dude, there's still plenty of room to innovation, some buffs and nerfs and further rotation cycles, also the devs listen to the community, the most likely scenario is getting some minor adjustments to the most dominant decks in eternal, so chill out dude

[@joaovictor_of]

It's kinda hard for me to understand the frustration. Maybe it is because I experienced the introduction of wild in HS and how the mode evolved. No matter what developers try to sell it as, it is not a mode where you can play your favorite "fun, meme decks of the past" and expect to climb. The sheer volume of cards and unnexpected interactions that arise with each expansion also makes it hard to keep nerfing decks. In HS, they only do so when a card is truly breaking the game and that's it (sometimes resorting to ban such cards). At first, it was frustrating to lose acess to some decks, but you start to appreciate how healthier and fun a limited card pool can make a game. Yeah, it sucks that you won't experience the joy of playing some of your favorite past decks eithout getting crushed. Sad thing is, you get used to it.

[@TOASTinaBOX]

honestly they just said ogga bogga eternal goes brrr. kinda feels like hearthstone wild rn

[@rosel4908]

What if it was a singleton format like in MTG commander? (Minus Champion cards, keep them at 3)

[@orixthesourguy]

Funny how some decks that were originally Eternal King, are now standard exclusive

[@vapandris]

I agree fully. I was hoping that Ethernal would be the meme format

[@dai7v7]

my favorite part of a card game is when a random card for some bizarre reason makes a good deck better

[@ReaverMoggy]

Yupp. I just want to play my Gp Tf SI keg control deck which admittedly has some good matchups agianst the current aggro line ups. But it gets so easily blown out of the water by almost every eternal deck. I just wish my champs weren't rotated man, they're both heavily nerfed versions of their former selfs and their optimal decks aren't my kind of decks. So to me, they're perfect for the standard meta powerlevel, they would still be tier 2 there. But nooo they're stuck in Poppy Draven land. The eternal buff should have been focused on underplayed cards, not aggro cards.

[@clamiraclegaming2412]

I don't touch eternal ranked because of all the broken cards and it was expected. Eternal format is supposed to be wild for everyone, but it's instead dominated by aggro.

[@BigYonkus]

i dont like aggro decks that use decimate, but i was really excited for decimate going into eternal so i could optimize my caitlin jayce deck where u can just play midrange and then have decimate as a backup condition for jayce cuz that combo style is fun for me

[@kunibertrandolf1886]

I must say that Targon in general and ecpecially celestial cards got power crept incredibly hard. The fact that cards like incinerate can just kill units for 2 Mana, nearly every region having a low cost engine that gives +1 attack or swarms the board or things like barkeep reducing the cost of all cards as a landmark stands in so insanely stark contrast to the supposedly "op" cards, you have to build a whole deck around to even get in hand. 8 cost "kill units with less than 3 health", 9 cost "obliterate two units" and 4 mana mountain scryer along so many more old/slow synergies that just never got updated to adjust for the modern card types that only got better the more support they got. Sett just obliterates for 0 Mana while generating more mana, Noxus disables ur entire bench and then one taps u mana 5, piltover just generates 40+ mana worth of value out of nowhere - and the "god like" celestials disable your entire mana before even answering anything your enemy does. It's sad really. Worked when they came out, but by now they do not bring the value they once did in any form and need a full rework if u ask me.

[@FenrirWolf203]

Honestly, I feel many of the meme cards shouldn't be in eternal, because if you have there all the busted options, then eternal is going to be oppresive and this meme cards will probably be even less viable. I mean, I was hoping to play lamb's respite with kegs to so interesting OTK combos, but that requires some setup, it can be countered, even with some of the new cards, like the marai that summons kegs when playing spells, or even with some old cards that were not broken that are only in the eternal mode, but looking at how things are right now, I highly doubt something like that can even be tried due to how the eternal format is right now.

[@jovi4793]

Eternal is sorta similar to how i see Free Build its like "wow i can make whatever i want now!" And then you actually play and people are playing the most unbeatable decks possible and then u realize u have WAY less freedom than Standard overall. In Standard most of the top tier decks felt beatable with almost any deck (except Sett Karma). Also the fact midrange doesnt exist AT ALL in Eternal sucks. Its either Aggro, or Control. I mean, if you like playing boring ass top tier decks and hate deck-building then I guess Eternal is the format for you!

[@midnightttemp821]

I totally agree Eternal format it's totally absurd now Also the fact that people always just copy decks instead of thinking one by themselves I recommend you to play casual eternal mode only

[@supbruh7793]

imo, they should change most of the card effects into allegiance. the main reason why most of the cards are so unbalanced is because they synergise too well with other regions (looking at u old timer). yes that makes the game more rng, but i prefer that over braindead op cards that just win you the game

[@gabfaj818]

HEAR ME OUT. big change but might be the right fix. *in eternal play, starting nexus health would be at 30 or even 35*, yes it doesn't fix the fast tempo of aggro, but it might give the slow decks a change to kick back, I'm not sure if aggro would outright die to this change, but it would somewhat make aggro decks a lot more skillful, especially with resource management (since their nature is big on early, but runs out of steam in the late).

[@bennie1079]

I know this is kinda off topic, but what I’m hoping for is a new region with a lurker champion. Do Warwick lurk and place him in pilt ofc. That’d be so fun

[@elclap5696]

Actually great idea

[@bennie1079]

@@elclap5696 thank you!

[@adonisyt1]

Ngl I don’t really have a problem with it.

[@Snnuy]

I understand and like I said in the video I'm genuinly glad if there are players that don't have a problems with it. From my experience of playing 40+ hours the past week or so, it has all come down to what I said in this video but it's also because of the kind of player I am

[@rinusberntsen8213]

Thing is, eternal formats need to be curated and balanced by devs same as standard. But because it will slowly become a larger and larger card pool, it will become exponentially harder to balance and will require more and more effort. I've seen it in hearthstone and magic the gathering. Where it's one problematic meta after another if it is curated, and if devs choose to leave it alone we're stuck with pirate warrior and res priest for years. Ultimately I do enjoy eternal formats but it takes a lot of work from developers to get it there.