My sad experience with "Little Big Horn" from Command Post Games

[@martinradcliffe4798]

Thanks for such an honest appraisal. Seems pretty poor for what is a very high price game.

[@dragonade85]

Interesting review. I have to say that my experiences with the game were very different. I backed it as a Kickstarter and had few problems with the rules. At that time time they were game specific, which might account for some differences. Only the cavalry HQ pieces and tribal markers (not the warriors) are on the board at first. Spotting: you can see one mile. If an HQ or tribal piece is within sighting range of an opposing piece, then the player has to reveal if that command or tribe is present or not and place all that command's/tribe's pieces within 1/3 foot move of the HQ/Tribe marker. Sighting is blocked by hills and/or trees. I'm surprised by the experiences with the makers. I've always found their customer service pretty good when I've had issues with the rules and game pieces. My biggest problem with the game is just the number of small pieces - I just don't see myself playing it out side a club or home. Too many pieces to get lost while drinking.

[@myboringvoice]

Hello from Japan!!! I have been a very big fan for a while (since 2016) . My wife is a a US Military member who went full time active 2 years ago. Luckily I have been able to follow my passion while she follows hers. I am an accountant here in the land of the rising on sun. I love games like Gettysburg and U Boat despite their shortcomings. I hope that one day I can meet a fellow wargamer like yourself. I used to wargame al lot back in the mid 2000s to 2013. Life got in the way, I got married, I had a beautiful daughter soon after. Some smart butt company said I was smart and offered me a job. THen the same stupid company said well keep you employed even though your wife is military, btw, you're our new professional trainer, enjoy or we will fire you! The CEO has told me this was a joke but I have been a successful trainer to all of the staff for the past few years. Anyway I hope you are doing well and if you are looking for a fellow gamer online I have the resources to play

[@56squadron]

I got the impression early on that this company was actually cartographers who wanted to sell really over priced maps to people, and they threw the wargame bits in as a side thought to create a purpose for buying them, because aside from the map the rest of it is cheap, literally unfinished (100 bucks and I have to paste the labels on myself?) and untried and untested. And when they can't even answer simple questions? So you have to write the rules for them too. No thanks. This company makes the many hurried into production SPI titles look like the Sistine Chapel by comparison. Gilbert.... maybe you're supposed to stack all the indian blocks up like a teepee or pryamid... and that explains why they can see over the woods.

[@XLEGION1]

&56squadron-All true. I'm done with the company.

[@dliston1]

beautiful map. thats about it. and clearly no play testing was done. way overpriced

[@richardstone3473]

I will buy it for the map. I bought US Civil War GMT. I will never play it,just want to own it for the map

[@davidam9390]

Dude, if you can't afford $75, you have no business playing any boardgames. ha ha ha!!

[@bartlettbigx]

@@davidam9390 Paying $75 for a game is fine. But not for a shoddy piece of work as this seems to be (at least in its current state).

[@GrafStorm]

Fair take on the game, it failed in too many ways, thanks!

[@gordo6908]

With such a confluence of negative externalities, it is difficult to give the designer the benefit of the doubt. Good looking out.

[@manuelkong10]

Well, I am very grateful for this video and the honest review. I think viewers are owed an honest review that doesnt pulls its punches just Because a lot of work went into it. These games ask a lot more money than they're actually worth. And we deserve to know what is worthwhile and what is not

[@smat2899]

Sorry for your bad expérience. I have the old version. The rules were specific to that game. No misunderstandings. I guess they wanted to make it easier to access all the Pub Battles games by adding the general rules, but that adds some difficulties of understanding. So you have to combine the 2 rules to play the game and leave out the unnecessary rules. The rulebook: there is no page 1: this is the cover (bad numerical sign); no page 2 (this is the back): page 3 is the beginning of the rulebook. I have several versions of the rules and I assure you that I have them all. Little pieces : like the real Kriegspiel pieces, very small. But historically accurate. (80/100 paces front) You can buy the chains on the command Post game website even if in the old version they were supplied with: they are more practical for slaloming between hills. Any size chain will do as well. The chains are divided into 3 equal parts . In the game, the idea is the surprise for Custer and the Indians: how many battalion ? How many tribes ? For that, none are on the game at the beginning. Just the camps and the civilians. So you don't necessarily put ALL the tribes. Until turn 4, the Indians don't move: Custer is looking for information: how many are there? And the Indians observe him in hiding. The goal: to catch/protect the civilians before they escape. Like all games, I spent some time understanding the game before I started. It is no more complicated than other wargames. Don't hesitate to ask questions in BGG. (simpler than simmon games for example). The Map is awesome! There is no better one. You really feel as if you are walking/riding through the terrain. And the Indians are VERY numerous! I regularly play Pub Battle games like Gettysburg, Brandywine and I enjoy it : Little big Horn is different and remains a very nice / good game. It is worth the investment for those who are attached to the beautiful object and play with a fair play opponent. Quite expensive but incomparable: the owners know what I'm talking about. I really find the game I was looking for ! Since then I resell but other games. (sorry for the english with is not my natural language). Enjoy the Game and give it a chance !

[@fastheinz1941]

Happy to see you back Gilbert. I started to get worried. Always enjoy your videos.

[@manuelkong10]

Like the guy said down below. I've never seen a little big horn. Custer game that accurately portrayed the battle in any way. They just use regular like 1961 Avalon. Hill type rules. Zones of control.Things like this and try to fit it to this battle.This was really quite different from say anything civil war Napoleonic or whatever

[@curtismilbourn1311]

Bought this game via Kickstarter and had high hopes but I felt the rules were very vague and made it difficult for someone who prefers more structure in rules. I did not have a series rules with my version of the game. Map was beautiful though.

[@clyntwalkerwhitaker9236]

Hi Gilbert good to hear you back in the saddle & thanks for the honest perspective on the game. I have always been fascinated with the battle and it is a game I’d like to add to my collection - but not this version. I am currently vacationing in north east Thailand as there are no flights home to NZ and have managed to play Decision Games Waterloo (Napoleon turned the tables) and currently am working through the tutorial scenario of “The Devil’s to Pay” the first day of Gettysburg (thanks for the video) and thoroughly enjoying Allen C. Guelzo’s book Gettysburg the last invasion. Very well written. Do you have this book? Anyway stay safe & best wishes from Thailand. My school reopens in August and I am going to offer an extra curricular class for students who are interested in board war games! I figured it would enable me to play more often as when I am home the competition with my two year old is a “bridge too far” Cheers Clynt

[@nyanates]

I agree with your friend. I wish more pro/con comments were included in nearly all game reviews. We’re not doing the industry (or designers) a favor by complimenting their end products all the time. There’s almost always room for improvement. Thanks for providing your honest opinion.

[@johnc.4871]

Thanks for bringing things like this to light. I think the designer and publisher should have looked further into the matter and come to a satisfactory resolution.

[@palibrae]

Don't feel bad about panning a game if it deserves it. There are many wargames out there that have plenty of problems. Some are underdeveloped and tested, some are overloaded with foolish, unnecessary and badly written rules, some are poorly presented or almost unplayable out of the box, some are just junk but published because they carry a prominent name designer. You do a fine job of pointing out the good parts but criticizing when warranted. Carry on and well done!

[@XLEGION1]

Thanks for the support. I just couldn't 'pull my punches' on this one.

[@Jubilo1]

Sorry for your bad experience; I know of your interest in this battle. Makes one appreciate even more the games we enjoy and should play more often. It's amazing how many games are published and how many are sub-standard.

[@franciscampagna2711]

You told him a page was missing and he didn't off to replace it?

[@Crosbie71]

I think the “missing page 2” is a pagination problem, rather than missing material. Still a problem, but not so severe?

[@XLEGION1]

Paul D My girlfriend and I considered that, but that wasn’t the problem. Basically the designers had different versions of the game out there and they have never proof read the differences. I have not heard from the company since and I don’t expect to.

[@SaxonChronicles]

Gilbert, I see some horse icons on the map. I wonder if the horses go there

[@XLEGION1]

I found out that they don't. They are an artifact from an earlier version of the game.

[@n815e]

If only, Gilbert, rules designers would respond to questions with helpful and courteous answers.

[@lonl123]

I came very close to buying LBH...but hesitated....Looked really beautiful but I didn't like the cubes and the battlefield looked like it might be difficult to play with the blocks on it. I am glad I didn't buy it now.

[@nightjarflying]

Hi Gilbert. [1] There is more than one version of the 3.0 rules - the developer is absurdly calling the two [or more?] versions "3.0" [2] I gather from this link from 2017 that the seven tribes are all of the Sioux Nation [not historically accurate] : www.commandpostgames.com/little-bighorn-review/ [3] Try contacting this guy with your questions: pubbattleshomebrew.blog/contact/

[@XLEGION1]

Thanks for the info. I have absolute proof that even when it says 'Version 3.0' there are different copyright dates on the pages and the rules ARE NOT the same. I think I'm done with this game. Michael Taylor's "Little Big Horn" from Legion Games is a far superior product and cheaper too.

[@manuelkong10]

WHY WOULD THIS GAME BE SO MUCH?!!? NO MOUNTED BOARD, NO BOUND RULES....JUST A MAP AND WOODEN BLOCKES!?!?!? NO SUPPORT FROM THE DESIGNER?!!? INCOMPLETE RULES?!? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME I HOPE THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS

[@eugeniomariopazielli8478]

great channel bro, can I ask some reviews on the French Indian wars?

[@RockinL7BuckingBulls]

Hey Gilbert where r u? I hope alls well.

[@XLEGION1]

Yeah! I'm still around. But this summer has kept me busy with Compass getting "War for America" ready for publication. I would like to get to a few more 'learning videos' about the game using the play test components.

[@RockinL7BuckingBulls]

Great !glad your still around. Can’t wait for you game and review.

[@johnnie743]

I just found this channel absolute hidden gem

[@mollytyson1169]

Bizarre that page 2 of the rules are missing. Sad because the games components looked ok. But unclear rules can really damage the playability of a game. Some games have such issues that you just can not enjoy the game even if you are interested in the topic. Thanks for being honest. Some reviewers are more favourable to the point that they are producing videos that are more marketing presentations. Your evaluations are always fair and realistic. Sorry that you did not enjoy the game.

[@XLEGION1]

Yeah! I really hate putting down a product, but this one richly deserved it. Avoid, at all costs.

[@colincampbell2418]

Nice to see you back , Gilbert , it’s been a couple of months. The map looks good , it doesn’t look to be paper , it’s not parchment is it ? It’s always disappointing when a product doesn’t live up to our expectations, especially when it’s a pricey one . You must have liked the Gettysburg game , from Pub Battles , to have bought another one from this company considering the price . I would have thought it a simple matter for the designer to send you the missing page, if that would have solved the problems, I suspect that it wouldn’t . I’m enjoyably tackling Clash of Monarchs from GMT , at the moment , which covers the 7 Years War , and would love to see it given your treatment. Nil Desperandum 😁 .

[@XLEGION1]

Yes, I was 'up north' of Sault St. Marie and am back for a short period. Will be heading back again later on. I got the 'deluxe' edition of the map, just about the only good thing that the designer threw in. But, I couldn't allow that factor to influence my ultimate opinion of the game. I could work on it, re-write the rules and make it work but as a consumer I shouldn't have to do that. This is rather a shame. Gettysburg and perhaps some of the other ones are better but the rules are definitely the worst 'feauture' of the series.

[@e-4airman124]

I will stay away from Command Perspectives! thanks for the warning

[@DavidRamirez-ww5kv]

Gilbert, I have this game too but I have not played it because I have numerous “projects”. Thanks for your review/comments. Hopefully, my experience will be different. PS How is your American Revolutionary War game coming along?

[@XLEGION1]

"War for America" is coming along fine. I'm working on the illustrated 'Play Book' for the game now. Play testing is more or less finished (although that should always be ongoing). I'm in correspondence with Compass Games who have agreed to publish.

[@DavidRamirez-ww5kv]

Gilbert Collins Great, I think Compass Games is a good publisher. They are releasing a new War of 1812 game.

[@manuelkong10]

the sighting through the woods rule is Not curious....the warriors are sneaking THROUGH the woods, the cav is merely stationed IN the woods but not going through them....two forces, using the woods DIFFERENTLY it's a perfect rule

[@Warriorking.1963]

What a shame, the map's so nice, the game's a lemon.

[@manuelkong10]

OMG it's Not That Difficult....the frozen tribal units rule is to replicate "surprise" (a much over hyped aspect of the battle) word was spreading as Reno moved down the valley....SOME warriors Knew Reno was coming and were spreading the word but ALL tribes knew they were being attacked once Reno opened fire on their homes at the southern end of the village complex but there should be rolls for WHEN different tribal units activate rather than just a hard and fast rule clearly it appears the tribal units are activated after 4 turns but again, there should be rolls on the earlier turns I think

[@lonl123]

OK, have watched your video, and it would seem after turn 4 the natives are in fact released for action...as they (The Native Americans can sight through the trees, so they would be released on turn 4 if they see Custer's column. If you brought Reno down and crossed the creek (As done historically) I'm pretty sure (Not 100% as I don't own the game) you could have contact around 3 or 4. I think it could play out fairly historically just guestimating things...again, I don't own the game so take my opinion with a grain of salt...(If you even read these comments)

[@kimmeints1950]

Gilbert, You need to change the game company in the video title. You say Command Perspectives ( a old no more company) and not Command Post Games . I know,Command Perspectives gave us 2 good games back in the day ;). As a game designer,any designer who does not take criticism and denies there is anything wrong has too much of a inflated ego and he can do no wrong. After 51 years in the hobby I have seen a few of them. Does the designer own the game company? It's clearly the printers fault and should be corrected. Thank goodness a fellow gamer came to your rescue.

[@ernestmacmurray9848]

Frankly I don't believe there has ever been a game designed properly for The Little Big Horn event. It was not a battle in the sense of two army's lined up to engage each other , Custer's intention was to take women and children hostages and force a superior adversary to lay down there arms....How do you want to simulate that ? and why ? It was a primitive surgical strike gone bad for a man who was rolling the dice perhaps one last time prior to going into politics ..When Judged with in the context of the ethos of the period it would be expectable . BUT.......as a game today there are far better subjects....

[@demiller2]

The version 2 rules weren't bad. Unfortunately, Marshall and his playtesters lost themselves in a debate over rules for almost two years, and I think, failed. Worse, as you state Little Big Horn should have had its own rules. I used to quite like these but I think Command Post have lost their way.

[@XLEGION1]

I couldn't agree more. I will not purchase any more Command Post Games. The Correspondence with the company was painful.

[@davidam9390]

Even more bizarre that Mr. Madison's War is missing page 1 but that doesn't bother Gilbert at all!!

[@XLEGION1]

I guess you didn't realize page 1 is the cover. Apologies for not including 'page 1' on the cover.

[@manuelkong10]

you don't like criticizing a game...but the public needs to be protected ...more often than we usually get when you're getting expensive games for free then are reluctant to be forthright about their flaws it almost starts to look like the gift of the game was something like a bribe

[@manuelkong10]

Ya know....unpainted wooden blocks with just one sticker...for $117 ....? Really? and a rules book that looks like it was run off on my home printer... thank GOD it's a game with no hexes though....

[@jakeywill6086]

You couldn't figure out how to play it? Funny. My 10 year old could. I wouldn't admit that in public if you're supposed to be a 'reviewer'.

[@XLEGION1]

@Jakey. I think your comment is a little disingenuous in the sense that I know how to play the game but am I playing the game the way the designer intended it to be played? The rule book is terrible and I get comments from other people who have played with things like: "Oh, you can eventually figure it out" or 'that's the way we play it" or 'we just made something up. This does not give me a lot of confidence that people who purchased the game are playing all the same way. I will not be keeping my copy.