My Thoughts on the CGC Scammer.

[@MintHunterComics]

UPDATE! Since posting this issue CGC has issued a statement! full investigation is underway and they are treating it with the utmost seriousness. They've tracced it to seemingly ONE individual who acted and affected over a hundred slabs. Go get him!

[@ibji]

Normally, Karma is spelled with a K, but since it's comics, this is Carma.

[@derekrice5203]

I think their response was spot on. They will right the wrongs. I still feel they are partially responsible for not having their QA know about the possibility of something like this happening. Scammers will find a way but as a company you should have people working for you that help you stay one step ahead of your vulnerabilities. Kind of like cyber security.

[@ShowMeTheMendozas]

There’s no way it’s just 1 guy out there doing that. I just watched a how-to video involving a simple heat gun and a filed down small pry bar. And some xylene to seal it back up. It was his first try at it too, and it was hard to see any evidence on the side he didn’t crack during his trials and errors.

[@ShowMeTheMendozas]

Immaculate Comics is the channel I saw it on, and his video is titled “exploring the CGC reholdering scam”

[@johnnydropkicks]

I find it interesting that CGC said “the trust that we have built with our community sometimes makes us a target of bad actors.” So, it looks like they are blaming the trust that “they have built” as the problem; not the flaws that have been exposed with their reholdering and relabeling services. If they cared more about their customers and the integrity of their product than they cared about all of that easy reslabbing and relabeling money, these incidents would not have ever occurred.

[@spaceferretcollectibles]

Great point on letting people know that CGC is a victim in this as well!

[@MrPelletty]

Thank you for not being a KZbin drama queen and lets get this legal money.

[@matthewcolon1500]

Makes me glad i collect just raw books.

[@vdubpowered]

Grading companies could use some type of tamper proof tape or something that makes it obvious that a slab has been messed with and if they receive a slab with the tamper item tripped, they should require a re-grade and not just a re-holder

[@murrayc9615]

Rick over at Immaculate Comics may have figured out how it was done. The scammer may have used a heat gun to soften and loosen a bottom corner post which allows the slab to simply separate, swap out the books, and then glue the corner post back together again.

[@MintHunterComics]

Saw his video last night - pretty wild!

[@gorillaproductions73]

I recreated his experiment and it’s even simpler… the paper label is even easier swap with his heat gun trick. Was very disturbing

[@ddougherty8266]

Yes - and this then, brings into question the accuracy of any grade on any book of substantial value. Any book over, say an 8.0, could be switched out with an inferior copy. How many thousands of times have we looked at a CGC graded book and said "Yeesh, this book got a soft grade, there's no way it should be an X.X". With it being as easy as it is, not only is CGC's grading accuracy and process itself questionable (dozens of videos on that) but now, it's revealed that the comic in the slab may not even be the one that obtained that grade.

[@gorillaproductions73]

@@ddougherty8266 it only brings into question books that have been reholdered AND that don’t show signs of tampering AND repeat suspicions claims… there are more than one parameter thus reducing the number of books. CGC needs to audit themselves and flag all suspicious sellers. I did the hack… he must smash the corner to cover his tracks. Hopefully Cgc tracks that data

[@robertt9342]

This CGC slab scam and the counterfeiting that has been getting really good too, and as values of books go up, the more this will be attempted. Honestly it’s making me less and less interested in buying higher priced books and reinforcing my current collecting strategies of getting the stories, whether through facsimiles or regular issues.

[@bradcsuka5054]

A couple quick thoughts: 1. Has been mentioned by many that CGC could solve/prevent future issues like this if they only took the time to marry the inner well, label and case by laser engraving the Cert # on all three; 2. I'm really curious to see if this "scandal" in some way benefits CBCS - does the collecting market rethink how we value CGC vs. CBCS? Thanks for the concise and direct video!

[@MintHunterComics]

What a good idea! Maybe I'll notify CGC of that! good thinking!

[@edwinbaca2878]

Thank you for having a great Channel. Keep doing great contents. See you next year. Wish you all the best were you in your Channel. And happy new year 🎉

[@charliedogg7683]

The reality is that grading companies rely on us trusting that what's on the label is really what has been slabbed. Without opening the slab and going through the comic page by page however, a buyer cannot be 100% certain, although obviously, doing so negates the whole grading process. My predictions: CGC will find a scapegoat, the company will weasel out of compensation and none will ever be paid to victims of the scammer and the company will deny responsibility or minimise it to the point where it's negligible. Quite possibly they'll even hire the scammer to join their quality control division in the same way that hackers are hired by the business they hack to join the anti-hacking team. Cynical? Sure, but CGC is hardly a model of outstanding corporate ethics.

[@daleziner1414]

The perp is also facing wire fraud charges. That brings in the FBI.

[@williambain3979]

Thanks for your input. The community values your opinion

[@jasonhellens3657]

Funny, CGC does not guarantee really anything like grades or restoration. Why grade books through CGC? The issue at hand is that during re-holder they probably didn’t have two people inspect the book ensuring the book was authentic.They need to get rid of the re-holder process. What do you think?

[@roberterwine7650]

we are seeing the end of CGC .....

[@The9.9Newsstand]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this! And thank you so very much for the mention! Much love!!

[@grendel0013]

CGC said that “hundreds” of slabs may be impacted.

[@eggplantcomics8336]

Which means it’s likely thousands of

[@MintHunterComics]

I sqw that - for some reason I thoguht it was like 20 slabs or something. so that REALLY BAD.

[@judesjunkcomics3283]

They caught one person. I am sure others are doing this as well.

[@jasoncraft2135]

Thanks for the update, James. And thanks for pointing out that it wasn't CGC doing the scamming. I've seen several videos that, at least in their title , make it sound like CGC was the ones doing the scamming. Fortunately, I've never understood why there is such a price hike for newstand or Mark jewlers insert variants, so not exactly affecting me. But i do hate a con man almost worse than any other nonviolent crime. Not only does the victim get ripped off, but then they are made to feel like they should have known better.

[@300baud]

Now that CGC has made a statement and has acknowledged they are aware of the one noted individual scamming them and buyers, it would behoove them to analyze the re-holdering data for that fraudulent seller and see if there are other sellers with a similar re-holdering pattern. I suspect that won't happen though unless another community member is able to unearth a specific seller doing the same thing. So, for now, we are just supposed to believe it was just that one guy. Doubtful.

[@MintHunterComics]

Idk - it def seems like a very specicif high-tech pattern for me. it was not an amateur job by any means and clearly they can see the user associated with the reholdering a book was sent in. So I have to imagine they've got the bastard and now are just figuring out what to do with him

[@300baud]

@@MintHunterComics We can only hope. Great content as always.

[@etapi65]

I've wondered about the youtuber (don't recall name) whose whole channel is chemically cleaning books and sending them in for grading to show he can get a blue label instead of a "cleaned".

[@LoochMindReader]

The detective skills 🕵️‍♀️ from the community were on point. 👌

[@Maz08]

One of three things it’s gotta be. 1. Inside job. 2. Outside job with inside help to new cases. 3. Outside job that the individual(s) have incredible skills on how to manipulate the cgc cases. Acrylic welding isn’t that hard to do and supplies are easily available and if you’ve done it enough, it’s quite easy.

[@MintHunterComics]

Believe it or not, I think it's either 3, or could possibly be 2

[@thatcomicdad1687]

I dont trust slabs because you cant look inside and see whats there and what isnt.

[@davidallen8891]

My guess is whatever the response, the cost of CGC is going up somehow. My other guess is we will never know the full story unless the scammer is an insider. If it's an outsider - telling how the scam works would just open up every already-graded book to the same risk of fraud.

[@tomvu1470]

You can be sure if there's one, there's a good chance there were many more that haven't been found yet.

[@MintHunterComics]

Now that's one thing thats guranteed

[@near2now974]

Why does CGC get off easy while PGX gets a bad rap? CGC has done more sketchy sh*t than all the comic grading companies.

[@beowulf1563]

This is my question: how are they going to prove the person did it? If they don't have direct evidence then he's just going to get away with it.

[@MintHunterComics]

I don’t think so… he’s a cgc customer so his name is directly tied to every one of these scam books. He’s going to get caught

[@DukeCityExplorer]

What's the name of this "one" person, ebay store, or LCS that's involved with this scam?

[@MintHunterComics]

I would LOVE to know. But I think cgc can see who it is cuz obviously they have an account. I bet their just waiting to see what their legal team says

[@Sinsightful]

CBCS!

[@BrokeBoyComics]

Yeah this sucks for people buying this books and finding them to be a scam. I hope that the people responsible are caught and taken care of and we keep the comic book community as pure as we can.

[@johnnydropkicks]

I find it interesting that CGC said “the trust that we have built with our community sometimes makes us a target of bad actors.” So, it looks like they are blaming the trust that “they have built” as the problem; not the flaws that have been exposed with their reholdering and relabeling services. If they cared more about their customers and the integrity of their product than they cared about all of that easy reslabbing and relabeling money, these incidents would not have ever occurred.

[@MintHunterComics]

Harsh but quite fair I must say!

[@johnnydropkicks]

@@MintHunterComics Thank you.

[@stevenschaller1672]

Pretty sure its not difficult to buy those plastic cases.and printing a fake cgc lable would be childs play.a small initial investment can pay off with first sale!👍🤷🏼‍♂️

[@ronaldbourgeois1255]

Love the antique cash register. Immaculate comics gave a demo as the how it was done.

[@mrgumdrops5]

Thanks for taking the time to do this video man! Awesome that CGC is taking it so seriously, I think all we wanted was an answer from them. Cheers! 🎉

[@MintHunterComics]

Seems like we got it! I think they already know who it is and are just waiting for the best advice from their legal team

[@otakutourguide]

This kills the slab market because theres no transparency ariund which books are legit lol process failure by CGC don't defend them they need to specify how process will be fixed and how current slabs can be address as legit through their slab lookup function. I doubt they have a true idea of how much it impacts the census cause they don't know how reholder requests were legit

[@otakutourguide]

For now they should have info or data on which slab have undergone reholdering so at least collectors can check on their phones before buying

[@MintHunterComics]

This is the second comment to say I'm defending CGC. That's definitely not what's happening. I'm pretty sure I call for real answers from CGC like 18 times in this video

[@angusmckeogh659]

Are you at the Antique Depot during this video?

[@MintHunterComics]

Yes!

[@scottisom5070]

I like how you end that with a CBCS submission lol😂

[@MintHunterComics]

Hahahahaha

[@grendel0013]

What did the five fingers say to the face? SLAP!!! 👋 🤣

[@wheelhouse3221]

Why couldn’t you just replace it with a fake? Or a facsmile? I guarantee CGC wasn’t checking these books thorough enough or else that would have caught this BS sooner. I bet this wasn’t the only guy who figure out how to do this as well.

[@grendel0013]

Of course CGC finally made a statement just earlier this morning.

[@MintHunterComics]

Yep hahaha

[@DocReasonable]

New CGC-style cases can be bought online for $4 or $5 each... the sonic welders are available for around $1000.

[@MintHunterComics]

That's wild - clearly they thought the expense was justified if they were doing hundreds of scams like this. Watch the person be fairly notable in the community or something

[@DocReasonable]

From what they're saying on the CGC boards, the perp has been selling on eBay since 2011 under various IDs. @@MintHunterComics

[@jcp4162]

Rick Morgan used a chemical weld to reenact the fraud, not a sonic weld.

[@RealTimePogo]

I didn’t know anything about this. How did this get found out? If they are slabbed.

[@MintHunterComics]

I think they care deeply! check out their post

[@Criner05]

A friend of mine told me about someone who bought a slabbed comic (I think Hulk #181). They took it out of the slab after buying it and resubmitted it to CGC to have it pressed and cleaned. It came back with a much lower grade because it was missing the stamp.

[@TooPunkToBeAPodcast]

I dont think it was one person. I think they are trying to cover their ass so it dosent look worse than it already is. If one person did it , many have done it

[@christiantolliver4042]

Thanks for spelling adaptation correctly even though I’ve heard adaption which drives me nuts. Thanks for elevating. Sad that cgcs lapses made them unwitting coconspirators

[@MintHunterComics]

Hahahahaha

[@pipedocrusso4371]

is the victim not the person who bought the book

[@MintHunterComics]

You better believe they are - CGC actually just made a statement saying those affected may be made whhhole I'm sure by the guy that did all this. they have their legal team on it

[@angelus0975]

I doubt it's just one person. I believe it's also an inside job assistance.

[@matthewinman4376]

@MintHunterComics Hear me out. Not too long ago, every comic related channel on KZbin would talk about how backed up CGC was. Could this not be a by-product of that back-up? I mean yes, some d-bag is pulling this scam. There's that. But the fact that they got away with it points to one of two circumstances. The first is that this guy was in on it. That's the obvious choice. But what if it is merely this one guy cutting corners because he is backed up? I mean if you ask for a re-holder, the risk has always been known to be that you may go from a perfect grade to a 9.6 or 9.4 if you chance sending it in to get a new holder to replace an original holder. How often do the grades go *up* instead of keeping the grade it had? I'd say it is far more common to dump a grade than as to keep it. Especially with the latest crop of new graders that seem to be more harsh than what we are used to. So maybe this guy was just like "screw it" and reholdered these books without re-grading them because he was trying to clear out his back-log. As for your point of CGC being a victim, I respectfully disagree. They may not have initiated the scam, but they are still culpable because they may have inadvertently aided the scammer. If the first attempt that went through got caught, then the scammer would have stopped pulling the scam once he knew he couldn't dupe CGC. But he did. And so he kept buying the lower grade stuff and switching it out. In the meantime, I think CGC should ask for a voluntary recall of all books the guy did, to truly ferret out all the affected books, because while the missing value stamp is an easy to look for, the guy doing this may have also re-holdered books with restoration as well.

[@MintHunterComics]

Ah yes I remember - the times where it took 12-14 months to get our MODERN books back. I guess things were just too good since then! we've all been on cloud 9, meanwhile we were just biding our time before the next huge OOPS. I still feel how I said I felt - CGC is dumb for missing this, but still fell victim all the same. Are they still wrong? you bet. And I need to hear how this won't happen again, but the reality is, someone very likely has penetrated the trust of this hobby and CGC is at the forefront until this person gets named or in jail.

[@matthewinman4376]

@@MintHunterComics Look at it this way. A long time ago, someone thought they would try touching up the cover of an old comic with some kind of color touch-up and when it came time to sell it, they didn't make the person who was buying aware of this happening. I'm not saying this original owner was a scammer, but hey, we want our stuff to look as presentable as possible. Enter CGC. Now did they catch restoration right off the bat, or was it a process they developed over time? I imagine they had to adapt their practices as they went along. Now you have this situation. CGC will once again have to evolve with the hobby. That may come to having two people work on the high value books to make sure the quality control doesn't slip. I doubt that the idiot who was either lazy or in cahoots with a scammer will get named. CGC will want to handle this situation and move on quickly and quietly in hopes that this disruption in both trust and business smooths out. Every Tom, Dick and Harry who has a KZbin channel and talks about comics is talking about this and the last thing you want to do is feed the torch and pitchfork crowd with this guy's name so they have ample dreck to drag out video content and keep this in the public's eye. I have some Silver Age books at CGC right now. I wonder if I could contact them and tell them I have a KZbin channel and if they would like some free positive press then maybe they could...ya know...wink wink...slip some 9.8's my way. LMAO. It just might work!!

[@MintHunterComics]

@@matthewinman4376 I was following you up til that last paragraph lol. CGC can’t be bought to get better grades lol. I’ve been mean to them and nice to them - it doesn’t change the outcome of my grades lol. Having a KZbin channel means dick

[@Brickdinosaurjimmy]

My solution (which may be a bit of a band-aid solution) is to offer grader's notes on every single submission. Not only would this partially solve this issue, but they wouldn't have to spend an insane amount redesigning the slabbing process and they'd probably gain some good-will from an already annoyed userbase. Even if they raised the price $5, I'd be totally OK with that.

[@ddougherty8266]

CGC cannot provide consistent or thorough "grader's notes" - because there are dozens of graders, some of grade too high and some too low - and some just incompetently. Dozens of videos where collectors aren't happy with the grade, and crack it and send it back in so as to get a different set of eyes - and a third of the time, the grade comes back higher. Grader's notes would allow the collecting community to see just how random these supposedly-reliable grades really are. The grades are ballparks.

[@DocReasonable]

How to open a CGC case without breaking it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rICxkmahbsyhjMkfeature=shared

[@MintHunterComics]

Just saw this! wild

[@DocReasonable]

It's very concerning. Anyone can swap a lower grade book into a higher graded slab of the same issue... then they can send the genuine higher grade (now raw) book to CGC and now they have two 'high grade' copies. This simple little trick could bring in thousands per scam. @@MintHunterComics​

[@chuckwhite3033]

They must have gotten access to the legitimate case, equipment supply chain.

[@MintHunterComics]

So crazy

[@DocReasonable]

New cases can be bought online for $4 or $5 each... the sonic welders are available for around $1000.

[@firestarterx]

Could it be an insider or someone on the inside helping this person?

[@WarriorsforInfoTV]

I dont think CGC cares. Remember this is the same company that sent employees home with customers books to grade during the pandemic.

[@MintHunterComics]

I think they care deeply! check out their post

[@WarriorsforInfoTV]

@@MintHunterComics Took them a long time to respond to it. Glad they are doing the right thing.

[@Criner05]

The worst CGC nightmare story I heard was from a friend of mine. He told me someone submitted a TMNT #1 first print. He got back from the CGC someone else's TMNT #1 third print. My friend doesn't know if it was resolved or not.

[@RichieBebb]

I love that antique till 👀 I have one similar in the attic of my 120+ year old hardware store 😂

[@MintHunterComics]

Nice! there's a bunch of em here hahaha

[@kahnlives]

Ya I was actually curious as to your opinion about this story 😮

[@PatriciaMaroney]

Glad you pointed out that the company also got scammed as their reputation is impacted as well. Great video! I watch your comics videos and get good information every time.

[@MintHunterComics]

Thanks for watching!

[@mattcarper9853]

I no longer trust buying slabs. That's what this did to me, although I'm presently bidding on one of yours before this went nuclear. You are one of the only places I trust if I were to buy a slab again.

[@MintHunterComics]

I think it's a harsh stance but I kinda get it

[@mattcarper9853]

@@MintHunterComics I know, but it is a lot of money, considering the price bump the market says .6 to .8 gets, etc.

[@DawnofComics]

They might be able to get him for art fraud

[@MintHunterComics]

Yep

[@kevinanderson3753]

Cgc made a statement. Just saw it.

[@MintHunterComics]

Same

[@Quasi_Terrible]

How did CGC not notice 1 person doing "hundreds" of reslabbing books? Reslabbing is pretty rare, that should've been a clue. And I was scammed by this guy apparently. My ASM 194 CGC 9.8 Newsstand (1st Black Cat) is now kinda worthless. Luckily my credit card company gave me my money back, now I don't know what to do with this book.

[@mattcarper9853]

What made it worthless, if you mind me asking?

[@MintHunterComics]

Reslabbing isn't rare at ALL - I was waited til I had 75 old labels - sent them all in, in like 4 different boxes, and get everything reslabbed. It's not rare in the slightest. Waht happened here is someone had access to the same tech they had so they physically put a similar, but one or two grade lower, book in a case PERFECTLY and then had CGC reslab in under their system! Wild

[@Criner05]

I agree. It may not have been swapped. Do they know they bought it from the CGC scammer?@@mattcarper9853

[@eblanco7605]

Reslabbing is not rare. People do it all of the time. Cracked cases, upgrade to newer or customer label, mechanical error, etc. Lots of collectors and dealers send in boxes of slabs in at a time to save on shipping. So it would not be unusual for someone to mail in a box of 50 slabs at once. If your asm 194 was part of this scam, save it and do not open the slab. There is a good chance someone from cgc/law enforcement will reach out to you.

[@horvathsogranfume658]

James you had to, i wanted your take

[@MintHunterComics]

Well then I'm glad I did!

[@ScarecrOmega]

Glad I don't buy slabs. No matter what changes they do the scammers innovate WITH any changes and find new ways to cheat the system when there is hundreds and thousands of $ to be made.

[@MintHunterComics]

Absolutely wild!

[@BubuAce]

CGC got paid

[@MintHunterComics]

They got paid? what do you mean?

[@Vp-jt3vl]

CGC, perhaps they might do a price increase now ahahahah.

[@MintHunterComics]

I'm sure it will

[@lancemcfarlin311]

The video cutaways are getting ridiculous.

[@MintHunterComics]

Hahahahah noted

[@AndrewSunada]

I'm pretty sure this isn't illegal.

[@MintHunterComics]

....How so? lol - I'm pretty it violates Art Fraud Mail Fraud at LEAST

[@Brickdinosaurjimmy]

according to the FBI: Fraud-The intentional perversion of the truth for the purpose of inducing another person or other entity in reliance upon it to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. Fraudulent conversion and obtaining of money or property by false pretenses. Confidence games and bad checks, except forgeries and counterfeiting, are included. so yeah, it's definitely illegal lol