My turbomolecular pump makes weird noises...

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Күн бұрын

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@k.moyers4746 2 жыл бұрын

An intermittent high pitch noise from your TMP is bad news. If the pump has not been run for a very long time and you are very lucky, it might clear itself. (The initial error on first start makes me think that it has been a long time since it was last run) But a TMP that runs at 75Krpm must be perfectly balanced with essentially zero bearing drag. The intermittent noise means that the bearings are not in that perfect condition. Hope that this advice is useful.

@Spirit532 2 жыл бұрын

Okay, so a lot of the comments here are... questionable. I'm a bit closer to an actual vacuum expert so I will clear up everything you see here. 1 - Starting pressure. Your forepump is getting way below where you need to be to start the turbovac series, and there are no issues with it. You are well within the safety margin, and the turbo can be started around 2 mbar, you don't have to wait to degas the rotary vane oil. With a fan it will happily sustain that load indefinitely. 2 - The leak. It's not a leak, there are two reasons for it - first, your system is wet. Just gently hit a tee with a torch while pumping and you'll see the pressure fly. Second, when it goes up when you close the valves - KF(also ISO-NW) gaskets are permeable, especially if yours are buna instead of viton. In a fully baked system, you'll be near atmosphere in a week, especially if you have many seals. This is why the ion gauge also shows that you're stuck around e-4 to e-5. That's water. This is solved by around 5ish hours of pumping for that size chamber, assisted by heating it to around 70-90C. 3 - The startup whine. Turbotronik controllers have fairly rudimentary controllerless logic - the "nyeee nyeee nyee" sound you hear is the bang-bang controller slowly starting the pump. That is normal. 4 - The initial failure indicator. It's likely that either the oil is a bit dirty, or that the turbo has just sat idle for a very long time and it needed a good spin to wear back into its normal operating conditions(see #5). If it only happened once, you can ignore it. 5 - The operation noises. This could be one of two things(or both) - the controller caps are slowly drying out and there's not much filtering(easy fix, just swap the caps), or the turbo's bearing is just starting its way out, and will fail eventually. Either way you're fine for now(it won't fail quickly while on an amateur pumping duty cycle), but I would do the due diligence to check the oil reservoir condition by dismantling the lower part of the turbo(short of unscrewing the main rotor nut). Should be clean, with no debris. If it sat for a long time, you can also expect the noise to go away in a few hours.

@AdvancedTinkering 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you a lot! That was a lot of great advice and valuable information! Edit: It is a turbovac 50. According to the information I found online, it is a grease lubricated bearing. Is there still a reservoir I could check?

@S.park.y 2 жыл бұрын

I was also thinking that the rise in pressure was due to a “wet” system/humidity at atmospheric pressure. Easy way to check is to let the system sit with no pump and if it levels off while still in a vacuum it’s due to moistures

@Spirit532 2 жыл бұрын

@@AdvancedTinkering If it's grease lubricated, there's not much you can do besides greasing. If it allows user greasing(not a sealed bearing), you need to make a funny syringe for that, follow the manual.

@AdvancedTinkering 2 жыл бұрын

Ok, thanks. The manual was not helpful at all. It basically says: "If anything is wrong with the pump, send it to us and we will fix it". I don't know if there is a maintenance manual only for technicians. But I did not find one.

@Spirit532 2 жыл бұрын

@@AdvancedTinkering Then just let it be for now. Let it wear in, see if the noise goes away.

@MartinDoesStupidThings 2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure what turbo you have, but some have both a bearing and are magnetically levitated. I have Edwards EXT255H's that I've been working on getting up and running - They generally should sound pretty quiet, but I feel like I'm hearing a high pitched metal-on-metal whine - which at 75k RPM is not a pretty thing to have going on. You may wish to see if there is oil that can be added and or if you can get a new bearing if your system uses one (The Edwards are Hybrid - magnetic on top, thrust / stabilization on the bottom) Also, check your manual for max/min foreline pressure. Some turbo pumps don't like to be run below a certain pressure, because below that point your bearing lubes will start to offgas and you can reduce the lifetime of your turbo. I purchased ceramic ball bearing replacements from china so that if I ever have to service one of my turbos I have them on standby (but thankfully haven't gotten to that point). Turbos simply aren't cheap. For a good laugh, "Spirit" has a funny (to me as an engineer at least) youtube video on an Edwards pump teardown. ("Rescuing the irreparable - Edwards EXT255 turbomolecular pump repair)". Love the videos, I look forward to seeing your UHV setup running. Alles gute von Oregon USA

@welcome741 Жыл бұрын

From the manual excuse the Japanese translation - TMP running in mode (T) ... This is a mode done to make grease become familiar with the bearing in the turbo pump. Please do that running-in of the TMP when you did not start this device for one month or more. It takes about 30 minutes. Most of the non MagLev pumps have a running in process that needs to be followed if the pump has been off "for some length of time" The manuals hint that the procedure re-distributes the lubrication for the bearings. If I have a pump that has been off for some period of time, I mimic the Adixen "TMP running in" process of restarting the pump. I was flying all around the country replacing TMPs in new tools. Nobody knew about the "TMP running process" so the pumps were simply turned on and many failed in short time. I happened to find it mentioned buried very deeply in the pump manual, and that solved all the short time failures.

@k5guy Жыл бұрын

The leybold nt10 controller uses the motor windings of the tmp 50 to determine temperature. Does this during the off pulses of acceleration. They often go out of calibration and give false failure readings but is a simple pot adjustment.

@k5guy Жыл бұрын

Also the noise is typically from bearing cage rattling or possibly if extreme rotor to stator contact. Bearing replacement and high speed balancing is only real solution. Also note these pumps are prone to leaking around the epoxy on the pump cable connector causing high load and poor foreline/inlet pressure.

@AdvancedTinkering Жыл бұрын

Thank you! That's some valuable information!

@omnischraubendreher5413 2 жыл бұрын

I love your videos. We definitely need more people like you. I'm just waiting for a video to be uploaded of you demonstrating a working mini fusion reactor that you made yourself.

@AdvancedTinkering 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you a lot! I am really happy to hear, that people enjoy the videos! I thought about building a fusor, but I am currently occupied with other projects.

@EliasExperiments 2 жыл бұрын

Oh wow I am surprised how quickly you got this all set up and running. Let's hope the noise is nothing to worry about.

@hendrikehlers1066 Жыл бұрын

Older Alcatel grease lubricated pumps should be briefly spun up (very low rpm) in atmosphere to allow redistribution of lubricant, according to the manual.

@AdvancedTinkering Жыл бұрын

That's great to know, thanks!

@Nicker000 2 жыл бұрын

Quick guess, in the turbo-pump the tolerances might be very tight (75,000rpm's is fast!). It might not have the high frequency intermittent noises if you take the roughing pump off the table or better isolate the turbo-pump from external vibrations. cheers, keep up the great content! edit: if the noise persist, next logical step is an oil change, then after that you can try and tackle the bearings. I haven't done either on my turbo-pump yet!

@AdvancedTinkering 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! To isolate the vibrations of the roughing pump is a great idea! I will try that. I really hope I don't have to disassemble the pump...

@oxoniumgirl 2 жыл бұрын

Ooooooh.. interesting things are to come, methinks!

@contomo5710 2 жыл бұрын

the dirt looks to be corrosion, is the pump magnetically levitated in any way? im quite certain the sound wouldnt be from the rotor rubbing on anything, that would cause way more troubles. i would still be worried and search for it tho ^^ i dont know how old the inverter is but it sounds like some electrolytics died and you can just hear the transformer whine

@BlueButtonFly 10 ай бұрын

Just getting into your videos: I have watched you rebuild like 4 of these now lol your hesitancy early on is funny.

@AdvancedTinkering 10 ай бұрын

Haha, yes, a lot has change over time. But I'm still far from an expert on turbomolecular pumps.

@jacobe2995 2 жыл бұрын

hi. just found your channel and i subscribed. wanted to say that while I know i'm in the minority (based on the views on your other videos) that i really enjoy these sorts of videos more that your explosion videos.

@AdvancedTinkering 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I am very pleased to hear that some viewers also enjoy my other type of video! They are both fun to make, but I put a lot more effort and time in the less spectacular videos. Thank you for subscribing!

@oak_meadow9533 11 ай бұрын

for cleaning nothing is as good as ispropyl nitrite. It cleans fantastic; and evaporates totally!!!😊

@mattfleming86 2 жыл бұрын

It almost seems like a harmonic? Very odd. I'm interested in the diagnosis

@edgeeffect Жыл бұрын

Ah, I was just asking you if we could have a video about your turbomolecular pump... and here it already is.... :)

@dtiydr 11 ай бұрын

11:25 A sound like that in a turbo pump would have made me to instantly launch my self towards the stop button, but that's me.

@-r-495 Жыл бұрын

Considering the value of your equipment: I‘d want to have redundant vacuum gages and a MKS controller with their nifty valve. Maybe that‘s just me but I guess you‘d want the same.

@lawrencejob 11 ай бұрын

Does the frequency of the intermittent noise correlate to the rotational speed of the pump?

@skateforlife6258 Жыл бұрын

Were you able to fix your pump? This seems like a bearing issue

@AdvancedTinkering Жыл бұрын

It kinda fixed itself after some time running the pump. I suspect it was the lubrication of the breaking due to the pump not running for a long time.

@330marshall 11 ай бұрын

Good day, I have a quick question for you if you have a moment. I am also looking to piece together a system to make liquid air and liquid nitrogen. I have been looking on ebay but have no idea on compatibility of systems. Do they have to be the same brand - or can they be swapped/pieced together and still work? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

@justinfisher2888 11 ай бұрын

Yeah because you know how ultra high vacuum is involved in the condensation of air. Whatever you think this video is about, it's actually exactly the opposite. Maybe learn to read before wasting money on condensing something using vacuum.

@AdvancedTinkering 11 ай бұрын

Hi, I'm not an expert but I would say it highly depends on the unit. I doubt you can just use any compressor with any coldhead. Maybe it's better for you to look for a pulse tube cryocooler. They are compact, do not need an external compressor and can liquefy air.

@very_pa Жыл бұрын

Hi, I have similar setup (nt10 and turbovac50), but don't have the cable. :( I wanted to manufacture the cable and already have the parts now, can you help me please with the pin assignment.

@AdvancedTinkering Жыл бұрын

I am currently on vacation for a week but when I get back I will try to help. If I forget, just remind me with a comment or write me an EMail ;)

@very_pa Жыл бұрын

@@AdvancedTinkering Reminder! Thank you!!

@AdvancedTinkering Жыл бұрын

What information do you exactly need? The continuity between the pins of the different plugs?

@very_pa Жыл бұрын

Yeah that would be great help. Pump side 4 pin controller side 6 pin. Pin numbers are written on the connector. Could not find it anywhere. I can send you e-mail (where?) with picture.

@AdvancedTinkering Жыл бұрын

I think talking via mail would be best. You can find my email in the channel description. Or search me on Instagram and text me there :)

@thombaz Жыл бұрын

From the video it's sounds like a bearing problem, but I am not a professional in the field, just heard a lot of bad bearing at work.

@thombaz Жыл бұрын

It not only can mean the bearing is faulty, but it may have a pressure on it from a non ideal direction.

@educatedmanholecoverbyrich8890 Жыл бұрын

Use a grinding paste on the flange using plate glass, which is harder than flange. Do both sides, and you're good to go. Doesn't take an Einstein to see that will work. To find the noise, you can use a hard stick against you ears, or a stethoscope, if you can get one. You will then localise where the noise come from. The motor bearing might need changing, but will need lubricating when fitted.

@russcottrill7106 Ай бұрын

you can use a very fine grit polishing paper to clean up or take out small straight line scratches on KF flanges. I use a grit like 10,000 or more sand / polishing paper. The polishing paper is attached either with glue or wrapping the ends under to a flat glass plate, do not move the flange in straight lines, rotate it and move in a circular pattern, this avoids scratches runnig across the surface, rinse with IPA and test. works on all but the worst dirty or gouged flanges!