Myth busting the Floyd Rose Trem?!

[@Lomni]

Anyone calling themselves a "guitar tech" and being unable to setup a floyd is a clown.

[@Metalcop5150]

I completely agree. If they don't like the Floyd Rose or don't understand it etc. then the tech needs to say that up front, "I don't work on those." And then, to your point, he/she will look like a clown. These Floyds are everywhere.

[@kaz0271]

Word

[@coryfeldman-hz2yj]

For real, I figured it out before guitar #3..

[@c.f.pedraza4057]

I spent 9 hours on a Jackson RR3 for my first floyd when I was 15 in 2005, and that bridge taught me. 🤘

[@johngallagher7884]

I've been using Flyod Rose tremlos since 1982.and and setting them up. Sure there is a learning curve, I love them. You have provided a great explanation on this subject. And your right if you hate them don't mess with them. Amen

[@Metalcop5150]

@@johngallagher7884 Or if you don’t know what you are doing? Learn it first, BEFORE giving out advice!! Lol (Preview of an upcoming video 😉)

[@kellecetraro4807]

Great video 🤘🏼 I'm the OG owner of a 35 year old Ibanez RG with a rear route and a Ibanez Edge trem with the OG block, 3 springs secured with a screwdown spring / block retainer and always loaded with 9-42's. The only modification or changes made are... replaced knife edges on trem a few times, if you heat up the base plate in a toaster oven then you can replace the knife edges, I've installed a Red Bishop 'Magik' tremolo arm and socket and the Ibanez Hollywood custom shop installed some reinforcement dowels ages ago. The paint has pretty much come off and looks more like a natural finish these days. My report after all these years is... it's the most stable instrument I've ever owned, it's basically in tune every time I pick it up, minor adjustments on the fine tuners here and there on occasion. Stays in tune on the dive and pull up, and flutters like a champ. I have a handful of other guitars and they aren't remotely as stable. It has a Frank gambale hot rails style in the neck and a JB in the bridge. It's been a brilliantly consistent and diverse instrument 🤘🏼

[@jimmcdougall9973]

I prefer the Ibanez Edge trem system over the Floyd, and I own guitars with both. Something I have never understood is, why guitar manufacturers, using Floyd’s, do not sink the Floyd into the body, like Ibanez does (I haven’t found one yet). The Floyds are always mounted on top of the body, making it difficult to get a super low action.

[@dalepiwek]

I've had the same strings on my ax for 16 months and the FR original still keeps it perfectly in tune. I've never understood what people are talking about when they say they won't stay in tune

[@Metalcop5150]

It's just people who dislike the trem, because they don't understand how it works and just how simple it really is.

[@dalepiwek]

@@Metalcop5150 its extremely simple right? The couple Kahler's I had were more adjustable but they destroyed the tone and would always go out even when I soldered the ball ends. Plus they're expensive

[@Metalcop5150]

@@dalepiwek Completely agree. The analogy that I make is that the Kahler is like a precision micrometer, whereas the Floyd is like a hammer. Lol

[@dalepiwek]

@@Metalcop5150 😂🤘

[@ultibe]

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 0:30 😮 0:30 rrrrrfrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfrrrrrrrrrO😅​@@Metalcop5150

[@billshiff2060]

The angled springs cause it to have two distinct spring rates so that they are more likely to settle at the same spot, similar to the hipshot device.

[@Metalcop5150]

Never even considered that! So not only does it work, it works better than if you arranged the springs all straight. An added bonus. Thanks for the view.

[@rickmccl71]

@@Metalcop5150 Not 'better' just 'different' and possibly more likeable but there is no call to say it is objectively 'better'.

[@TroyShahanMusic]

I’ve been working on Floyd Rose tremolo systems for over 20 years. I have two ESP LTD guitars. One has the real Floyd, and the other has a cheaper model. They are in tune every time I pick them up, which is really all you can ask. I have an Ibanez S with an Ibanez branded locking trem. It is very picky. One thing I’ve learned over the years though: you can leave the strings on, take out the springs, and pull the bridge completely off the guitar (let’s say you are adjusting the string height on the bridge posts). If the nut is locked, you can put the bridge/springs right back on, and the guitar will be perfectly in tune. Amazing!!!!!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@TroyShahanMusic I frequently use the locking clamp to make gross adjustments to my guitars. Meaning you can slack the strings, then clamp them in place and literally remove the bridge. This is how I install big brass blocks, and remove the neck for truss rod adjustments and even for swapping in new pickups!! People don’t realize just how versatile and simple, the Floyd is. 🤘😎

[@pauln6803]

Minor correction. The R4 is the same width as the R3, but it has wider string spacing.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@pauln6803 Yes!! Correct. I chose not to include string spacing info for time constraints, but you are 100% with that. Thanks for the clarification. 🤘

[@scottdunn2178]

The R3 is 1 11/16" width - but with a 1 5/8" string spacing to compensate for binding on bound necks.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@scottdunn2178 I believe you mean that the R4 has the different string spacing, to accommodate bound necks. The R4 has .2631/6.70 mm (wider) string spacing, compared to the R3 that has .2591/6.60 mm string spacing. The R3 is standard on every Charvel, Kramer etc. with an 1 11/16" nut. Thanks for the clarification.

[@scottdunn2178]

@@Metalcop5150 Yeah, I always mix up the two. Walz moment 🤣

[@diegomendivil7101]

Here's the thing with 3 springs, the angled orientation is perfectly fine but only if there is enough tension for the middle one to not be loose. This is difficult to happen with a floyd rose or decked strat style trem. However if you decide to set up a strat style trem with a floating set up that's when the the springs might need to be set up all 3 straight as that particular set up requires the trem tension to be much less to balance with the strings. So basically 95% of the time angled springs will have very littles issues. Only in some situations they might need to be straight, in my experience.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@diegomendivil7101 Almost all of my trems are decked, flat/top mount style. And I use 3 springs, outer 2 angled. The middle spring, for my setup, always has plenty of tension! It’s what works for me. I also use this arrangement on my (one) recessed trems and top mounts that are ‘floating’ and allow travel/pitch both up and down. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤘

[@rickmccl71]

@@Metalcop5150 Here is where you lost me, all your trems are decked? You don't even use the system the way it was meant to be used? I think that was important to lay out in the video that you have such a bias.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@rickmccl71 I fixed my comment. *Most of my trems are decked. But I do have one proper recessed trem, 2 VH style, w/ slight recessed, but decked and two that are top mount but still allow for travel up and down, increasing and lowering pitch. The theory is exactly the same if your trem is decked or if your trem is floating, but level (as it should be) Of course you can crank down your springs on a decked setup to as much or more tension than you need. Most decked or top mount trems, the player will adjust to the bare minimum tension necessary to keep the trem flat (or decked) and to account for large bends, but no more tension, if that makes sense. Who says that it isn't "the way the system was meant to be used"?! All Floyd Rose trems were flat, top mounted, before the advent of recessed tremolo systems. They had to be set up to float or not, which is a preference, not necessarily a design feature. ✌

[@jjbrog79]

I always start with my springs like that and generally stays that way most of the time(I have about 10 floyd guitars in different tunings) I just do it that. I was never taught though, I was just sold a floyd guitar when I was a kid in 1994-95 and had to figure it out. I do remember a lot of cussing and wtf, and hours trying to tune etc.

[@Metalcop5150]

Floyd has been showing that 3 spring arrangement in their literature since the early 80's. Not sure why the "experts" of today feel that they're qualified to rail against this and state that it's "wrong". 🤣

[@jjbrog79]

@@Metalcop5150 I haven't seen it myself, but maybe it's these weirdos and their tunings these days? Plus if you google "string gage for this tuning" I'm seeing suggestions for like 12-52 for standard E which is uncomfortably tight in my opinion. 10-46 tops for standard.

[@angryprobes]

Those screws are fine. The only problem I have with triangle configuration is that since all springs are not pulling with the same tension then there is more of a chance of it not going out of tune. When you have 3 straight springs that wont be an issue. As for the retainer why buy a Floyd Rose when you cant use the fine tuners which means you wont need a locking nut anymore cause you would have to loosen them to make adjustments which makes the whole system no work properly. The bridge has a 10 and 12 and 15 radius. Leave the shim for 10. Remove it for 12. For the 15 if I remember correctly you switch our the outer saddles to make it a 15 or 16. The nuts have also changed. R3 is not longer 12 radius they are 10. What we should be talking about is why the Made in Germany stamp removed from all Floyd Rose products. Dumb move now you really wont know if its a real Floyd Rose because the stamp was removed and I knew I was buying a authentic Floyd Rose when the stamp is on it. In my opinion it wont really make a difference if you remove the shim on a bridge making it 12 and sure it wont make a difference if your springs are in triangle config or even having non Floyd Rose springs in your guitar. However I beleive all these things put add up and it just makes it potential to have tuning issues cause everything is out of spec. This includes removing the stamp now how are you suppossed to know besides buying it directly from the manufacturer?

[@1976oswald]

the floyd rose is one of the most Awesome bridges ever invented !!! I used to have a Jackson Charvel from 1998 - 2012 :) Wonderful Guitar !!!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@1976oswald Should’ve kept it!! Lol

[@daneph]

FR now sells a pop in arm conversion kit that is a fairly easy install and I highly recommend it if you hate screw in bars

[@Metalcop5150]

@@daneph Nah, I absolutely love the screw in arms! They are all I use, since 1985, lol. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I think I’ve only had a couple of guitars w/ a push in arms, an Ibanez and maybe a couple of Jackson JT6’s. Not a fan. But people really do seem to love them. Just not me. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@EvilDragon666]

God, yes. Screw-in arms are absolutely not built to withstand heavy whammying. They unscrew on their own after not that much time (from my experience on a Schaller FR) which makes the whammy bar not stay where you want it to stay. Also I noticed at least on mine the bar actually had a bit of dead play where it didn't do anything, which it did from day one. I know Schaller makes great stuff so this was a WTF for me. Replaced that abomination with a push in bar and it has been DOWNRIGHT PERFECT ever since. Push in whammy bars for the fucking win!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@EvilDragon666 I’ve used the screw in bars since 1985 w/ zero issues. I like the bar to free swing, like EVH, so that does make a difference. They 100% absolutely, unequivocally do NOT unscrew on their own!! 🤣 And yes, there is a tiny bit of dead play, but if it’s what you’re used to, you don’t even notice it. I’ll never convert to a push in bar. Never. Can’t teach this old dog any new tricks. Screw in bar for the for the MFing win!! (For me) 🤘😎🤘

[@EvilDragon666]

I absolutely hated that dead play. You can absolutely hear it when you're whammying. It had to go to the bin. And yes I tried three different screw in bars and they all never managed to retain the tightness that I set them with. Do a few divebombs and wider vibratos and they got loose every damn time. Fk that shit.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@EvilDragon666 Worked for Eddie Van Halen?! 🤣 And it works for me, too. Like I said, to each their own. 🤘

[@baimun]

Having two angled springs under higher tension and a third that is applying less initial tension is for the feel of the tremolo at partial and full dive. It's like the difference of an audio taper versus linear taper potentiometer... how quickly the resistance is applied. Neither is wrong, but one may feel more useful to the player. ☮💜🎶 I've been using Floyds on some of my guitars since 80's partscasters and Charvels. One mod that I've done on many surface mount builds is a small rectangular route beneath ONLY the fine tuners. The sides of the bridge still come to rest on the body, but there's enough room to let the fine tuners move the locking pins and prevent the bridge from going flat when one string is tuned up. First did that to an old one I had that didn't have the fine tuner springs to keep them from rattling.

[@Metalcop5150]

Cool, man. Whatever works for you! Thanks for the view.

[@baimun]

@@Metalcop5150 I appreciate the BS dispersion. 😆 So much of my experience has been trial and error, experimental builds... or repairing shit I've broken at gigs. 🤣

[@johngallagher7884]

You are correct on that spring tension explanation. Hallelujah 🎉

[@guyfawkes8873]

The physics are somewhat wrong ;) your springs are always adding up to equal the string tension, so always 90lbs. The reason two springs feel less stiff is not because the initial tension is lower pr spring (it’s higher than with three springs, at 45lbs), but because using the tremolo is based on achieving a certain deformation, I.e. stretching or shortening the spring length a certain amount to achieve a desired pitch. The deformation length is the same whether using two or three springs, but using three springs you have to deform three springs, so you need 1.5 times the force to move them to the desired position for the desired change in pitch.

[@redhorsereincarnated]

Yes exactly. I came looking for this comment before posting something similar. I think he’s just not explaining it well. No matter how many springs you have the tension will always be the same with the bridge in the neutral position. It will be the same as the tension of all the strings in that neutral position. Adding more springs will increase the force needed to push the bar down to lower the pitch. Some people like that. You have to loosen the claw though and that can cause the springs to be too loose when pulling on the bar to raise the pitch and the springs could fall out. This is also related to how on a strat with a decked bridge you will often see 5 springs to prevent the bridge from pulling up when doing a bend with the fret hand. That way you can ring an open note like the low E and bend on a higher string without the ringing note going flat. Or bending a string and then fretting another string. You can’t do those things on a full floating bridge.

[@franke2902]

Yesterday I picked up an almost new slightly used Fender Stratocaster. It had the original strings on it and still had the protective plastic on the back plate. Fender bridges come stock with one straight spring and two angled ones. Your explanation makes sense.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@franke2902 Yes!! Thank you. It’s just ‘the right amount’ of tension, more than 3 straight and less than 4. There is infinite adjustment; between the number of springs, how you arrange them and how much tension you apply by screwing in the claw. There’s really no right or wrong way to do it. If it provides enough tension to overcome the strings, and gives the bar a good feel to you? Then it’s right. Thanks for watching and commenting. 🤘

[@rickmccl71]

@@Metalcop5150 There’s really no right or wrong way to do it.

[@troyshappyhounds241]

Ok, so Im looking at at least replace the saddles on my 2017 JS34Q. The trem is pretty worn and corroded but the Jackson by Floyd Rose trems are supposedly Floyd Rose Specials branded for Jackson. That makes sense, since they are no longer " licensed by". As such they have hardened steel baseplates. On that assumption, upgrading saddles and hardware would make a decent Jackson branded trem. Question is should I wait for the 16" radius saddles? It seems like a 16" saddle set would really set the guitar up noticeably better and follow the compound radius from 12" at the locknut to 16" at the 24th fret. Am I over thinking or on the right track? The trem wont get used much so I'm not as concerned as long as the knife edges are a hardened steel of some grade.

[@Metalcop5150]

I would go "all in" and get an entirely new trem, with the properly radiused saddles, if that's what you're wanting to do. If it needs to be on a budget, then just get yourself a real Floyd Rose Special and call it a day. The difference is likely $100 for the Special, $300+ for the OFR and 16" radiused saddles. Also depends on what kind of music and your style of playing. Are you playing a lot of clean, jazz type runs? Then go with the $300 option. Are you playing with a ton of gain, playing Hard Rock and Metal? Then go with the $100 option, as you will never be able to hear the difference. Hope this helps.

[@PrinceWesterburg]

I totally agree with you and I'll add that you may notice the middle spring on your guitar is a different type! Yes, there are different tensions of spring too. Ask anyone who races motorbike about valve springs, its the same on guitars. I have a box of springs cultivated from 30 years building guitars and in the 80s and 90s I never held them together so they're loose and I have to go through and bend them with my fingers to get a set as they vary a lot. I do like finding a good mix so you get a smoother tension across the trem movement.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@PrinceWesterburg Yes, I hand select the springs w/ the best tension. I prefer a brand new set of Floyd matched springs but at times,I’ll use what I have on hand. Thanks for the view and comment. 🤘

[@TommySpannEsq]

I've always used 3 springs on my Floyds and setting up Floyds and the licensed copies. Plenty of tension if the claw is where it should be.

[@martinheath5947]

Strat trems work better if you unplug the middle spring (of the three) a d move it to the next hole up on the bass string end of the trem block.

[@Metalcop5150]

I always thought that made sense! Because the heavier bass strings obviously put more tension on the springs than the lighter strings. I would think that arranging the springs this way: II I would greatly improve the feel of the bar.

[@captainhowdy3104]

i angle my springs to add tension on some tunings and use straight method for less tension depending on scenario… it just makes sense

[@c.f.pedraza4057]

I love Floyds. When set up properly, they almost never go out of tune, even doing the Dimebag squeals.

[@666nacirema666]

floyds are alright same with many of the clones but personally I like the wonderbar a bit more.

[@c.f.pedraza4057]

@@666nacirema666 never even heard of a wonder bar.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

That spring tension statement only holds true for expansion springs. Compression springs work the opposite way.

[@Metalcop5150]

Ok, sure. But we're only talking about tension strings as applicable to the Floyd Rose and all other tremolos that use this type of spring assembly.

[@garymiller531]

Finally someone who knows what their talking about! Awesome video! I also found the that metal plate under the block, stabilizes the Floyd while resting on the body!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@garymiller531 👍Almost 40 years of real world experience talking. Versus guys who admittedly hate the Floyd Rose and players still in their 20’s, lacking experience. 🤘

[@evhwannabe6590]

Great info, thank you. The only thing that came to mind that wasn’t covered was the nut mounting screws. Is bolt through any better the top mount?

[@Metalcop5150]

@@evhwannabe6590 In the old days Floyd Rose thought that you needed a lot more clamping force and structure to hold the locking clamp in place. So they used the through the neck screws. It proved to be ridiculously over-engineered, and actually weakened the neck joint. On Gibson and Jackson neck joints, this could quite often be disastrous. In reality, the strings tension and downforce hold the locking nut/clamp in place, and it only requires the two small wood screws to firmly hold it in place. Every installation and retrofit I do, I use the top mount screws. I’ve done the through the neck screws and it’s difficult and unnecessary. Completely unforgiving, alignment wise as well. That’s my .02 on the subject. Thanks for watching and commenting. ✌️

[@evhwannabe6590]

@@Metalcop5150 thanks brother, I’ve felt the same way and I was just looking for an educated opinion about that. I’m a Charvel/Jackson guy…and that makes complete and total sense. ✌🏻&❤️

[@Azathoth43]

@@Metalcop5150 To add a point to that, old Ibanez wizard necks with the through the neck screw locking nut would crack if tightened too much. They only need to be snug.

[@larsheuker]

I use 12.5s in standars and use 4 to 5 springs. Guess what. Works like it should. That is indeed all that matters

[@LockRocker]

A place for spring innovation would be for someone to make them up using square wire stock. Square wire would increase the tension per spring as they have more overall mass and no loss of material between coils, with a great weight and durability. I have no doubt that two could achieve the pull of 3 angled or 3 straight round wire springs. They also could likely reduce the need for longer body routes to accommodate them, the claw and fittings, leaving more body wood. Spring manufacturers know this but the trem industry has yet to explore the possibilities. Who knows you might even pull off a one spring design or reduce overall noise associated with spring units.

[@KwhyChang]

I am just learning about this ancient debate and I found your info very useful in forming my own opinion. It is a dilemma but if it gets solved, will we have too much time on our hands? I might get to learn how to play? And will I thank you again? Good luck friend. I admire your enthusiasm. KC

[@Metalcop5150]

Thanks for watching and commenting! I found your comment to be very humorous... lol

[@rickmccl71]

" 2 angled springs and one straight /|\ is under more tension than 3 straight springs ||| " Well no, because you're going to set the claw screws to provide the proper amount of TOTAL TENSION to match the string set and float the bridge. TOTAL tension will be the SAME for both fashions of attachment -- At the static setup of a bridge at rest.

[@Metalcop5150]

That's just splitting hairs. How about this: there is more 'Potential' tension with this arrangement: /I\ than with this one: III lol Thanks for the view.

[@seanmurphy5988]

I have a Floyd Rose original on one of my guitars, they work just fine once you get everything dialed in, my only problem with the Floyd Rose tremolo is adjusting the intonation it is not very user friendly and the tool that you can buy from Floyd Rose is a complete piece of junk a waste of money. I ended up making a improved tool that doesn't lift up on the block and give you false tones when setting the intonation. Floyd Rose should make a intonation adjustment tool that works, not every guitar player has a machine shop at there house like I do

[@Metalcop5150]

I just do it old school, and slack the string, then move the saddle, retune and repeat. You get pretty good at it, over time, like second nature. And honestly, if you’re using a locking trem? It’s not like you need perfectly intonated micro tuning for smooth jazz fusion?! Lol

[@Jkoziol72577]

Evh used to two springs because he had light strings middle spring of quarts is still under tension when you stretch the outer ones out it will apply additional I've seen situations where two were straight and one was crooked because you had heavy strings on the low end.

[@Metalcop5150]

That's a good point. I have seen the springs arranged with 4, and one angled, just as you said. It really doesn't matter. You need the necessary number of springs, arranged however you want them, and with the necessary amount of tension (by screwing in the claw) to overcome the tension for whatever set of springs you are using. That's it, in a nutshell.

[@johnosborne3187]

I don't remember why I put my springs in the way that picture shows, but I've done it that way as long as I can remember. It was probably Eddie. Great explanation! Thanks! I am a luthier, and now I will know what I'm talking about when talking about vibrato springs:)

[@bluwng]

From a mechanical standpoint the spring orientation doesn’t matter the block only looks at the total tension on the block. That orientation increases the tension but so does screwing the claw in more, it also adds a torque along with a linear force. I don’t like it because middle spring will have less tension I like them to be uniform…that’s just preference.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@bluwng Sure, but if the block is screwed all the way in, eliminating that as a factor, 3 springs arranged like this: /|\ gives you more tension than this: ||| There’s a reason that Floyd Rose original literature, dating beck to the mid 80’s shows the springs arranged this way. It’s the most tension you can get with only 3. ✌️

[@bluwng]

@ it’s negligible

[@Metalcop5150]

@@bluwng It’s really not. Read the description, I give specifics as to how much more tension an angled spring provides over a straight one. There is a marked and measurable difference.

[@christopherallen5603]

Ed would put his springs at an angle and crank his block in to have a form of wood block at the sustain block to stabilize the tremolo That setup keeps you from pulling up, but it did help staying in tune even a little better. Personally, I use 2 springs and a tremsetter

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

And that would be unnecessary because his Floyd installs were top mounted with no recess, so you can't pull up on it as the only hole you route for a top mount is the spring block. For that setup, your tremolo would have to be angled forwards slightly to be able to pull up.

[@claudevieaul1465]

​@@BrunodeSouzaLino Not necessarily. I have guitars without the recess, and usually the neck is at enough of an angle to have room to manoeuvre. On my vintage Japanese Fernandes JS100 (brilliant 1985 Jackson Rhoads copy) I've set the Floyd to sit parallel to the top, and the clearance between Floyd and body is about 3mm, which gives me plenty up. It all depends on the neck. Shimming a bolt-on neck is always an option too 😎👍

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

@@claudevieaul1465 It's impossible for you to pull up on a Floyd that's top mounted with no recess when it's set to rest on the body. The body will prevent the base plate from moving. This is not a floating setup.

[@AtomicFacePunch]

Never heard the spring support plate thing, but I have found that using the original style screw in arm and tightening it fairly snugly does give a noticeable boost to sustain. The Red Bishop 'Magic Arm' sounds almost as good and uses an adjustable collet so it's a little more flexible. But by far my favorite Floyd accessory is the Schaller Sure Claw. Makes the perfect float so much easier.

[@martinclayton7260]

Thank you, this really helps. I've had two of my guitars with double locking trems replaced. I went for the Schaller lockmiester ones. I have an original 1980's Ibanez RG550 that I've always hated the trem on, so it's now gold a Gold Schaller, and my Charvel has a black Schaller.they are fantastic trems.

[@scottyknows]

I have a semi custom guitar where they both routed the rear and installed the claw crooked. I didn't notice it at first because I asked them to install a Tremol-No. Time goes by dealing with tuning stability, and i decided to remove the Tremol-No, and the entire block shifts a few degrees to the right. Crazy! I didn't want to pay for shipping and risk a break en route, so I've just dealt with it. Tuning is a lot better, even if all the springs are at an angle installed straight lol. Had to sand the route out so the spring wouldn't grind against the wood.

[@Metalcop5150]

100% would've returned it.

[@johnwstruhar]

My Ibanez USA Custom came with the set up that way. Two angled, and the center straight. I've had that guitar since 1994

[@kellecetraro4807]

@@johnwstruhar do you have the USA custom that has the Trekker / bunker tension free floating neck system? If so I'm just curious about how it plays after all these years. I knew Dave bunker back in the day Junior that is when he was out in Draper Utah

[@Azathoth43]

My favorite myth is that it's normal that when you lock the nut, your strings go sharp. I wonder what that string bar is for, lol.

[@Metalcop5150]

Yeah, that’s definitely a good one too!!

[@joeyskar]

One of my first guitars was FR equiped Ibanez when I was 17 and I spent an entire week learning, disassembling, reassembling, and experimenting with it learning everything I needed to know. I remember having a music teacher who played my guitar and he was blown away with how well it played. He came back the next day witg a Gibson MIII and made me take it home and set it up. 🤣 I've loved the Floyd Rose for as long as I've played. One product I found that changed the bridge for me entirely is the Tremmory and the Mag-Lok. Yeah, you sacrifice flutters but you get amazing tuning stability, you're able to do bar bends without the other notes going flat, you can drop d without the other notes going out from the bridge (you may have a few minor changes from neck tension), AND you can still pull back and dive the bar. It's an amazing product, Mag-Lok is still really damn good too but you have to drill a screw in the trem cavity and it has to be very accurate, just grab the Tremmory.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@joeyskar I’ll check ‘em out!! 🤘

[@theprismaticsystem2833]

Thing I've heard about the middle spring in a setup like that is it doesn't really start helping that much till you actually go to push down on the bar, with the delayed increase increase in tension (it was doing something it just had more available tension than the others) as the bar moves down is a neat little potential way you can dial in play feel.

[@Metalcop5150]

Exactly! Of course the middle spring is working 'less' than the other 2, but it is still under tension and doing it's intended function. That is a perfect analogy; delayed increase in tension. And it is 100% about the way it feels. Arrange your springs however you want, to get the necessary tension to overcome the springs AND to get the feel on the bar that you desire. Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it.

[@jimmypennell8831]

I'm glad that my 1st "real" guitar had a floyd so i learned how to work on em a loooong time ago 😂. But you're never too old to learn something new... which i have watching this. Good content 👌

[@Metalcop5150]

@@jimmypennell8831 Thanks for the kind words my friend! I’m truly glad that you found this video useful. I appreciate the view and your support. 🤘

[@Danny.B82]

Everything in this video is 100% correct nicely done sir.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@Danny.B82 Thank you for the kind words, your view and commenting!! Truly appreciated. 🙏

[@KevinSPeace]

Great video! So, ive been using Floyds since 1987 and your thought process is bang on what I have always went by, BUT, this video sent me down the spring rabbit hole .. HAHAH ... more research is needed ... So what I have quickly figured is that a tension spring rate is linear to how far it is opened. Therefore a spring a spring installed straight will have less overall tension than the same style spring installed beside it that is installed on an angle, because the angled one being longer has another exponent added to its tension because it is being pulled open more making it longer. The spring RATE hasn't changed, per se. But, in quickly looking into this, I WAS NOT all crazy when mixing and matching springs and thinking I was ending up with a better feel to my Floyd Roses, because the number of coils, if the spring is twisted when coiled (creating a torsion bar effect), and the opening rate that is factored into the spring when made ALL affects the actual spring rate. AAACK .. now I am going to have to pull out my calipers and other measuring devices so I can sort all this out in my head or I will NEVER sleep tonight .. HAHAHAH ...

[@Metalcop5150]

@@KevinSPeace Lol, Love it!! I’m right down that rabbit hole with you! The physics and geometry are bang on. It’s not even up for discussion. This arrangement: /|\ provides more tension than this: ||| It’s a fact, backed up by actual physics/ science. 🤘

[@saber5401]

back in the early Kramer days I had several Barretas and Night Swans, both models came with three springs set up as you say.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@saber5401 That’s because it works! Don’t listen to trolls acting like they’re knowledgeable! Lol

[@ashscott6068]

I don't think the springs have anything close to 80 pounds acting on them. If you look at where the pivot is, in relation to the string tension and where the springs attach to the block, the springs are like 6 or 7 times farther away from the pivot than the strings are. But having the springs as shown in the diagram definitely feels better...for the 5 seconds you use the thing for before realising it's better to have better sustain and tuning than to be able to play that one song from 1986 that you don't even like.

[@Metalcop5150]

Like I said, I'm NOT a physicist and I'm not a math wiz either! lol I have been previously told that a 'standard' set of springs exerts 80 lbs of force. I can't vouch for that as fact. I needed a number to explain the different tensions of the springs, and that 80lbs, is what I've always been told. Maybe someday someone will conduct an actual experiment on the amount of force strings apply, and then how much each of these springs are in their relaxed stated and under various tensions. Thanks for the view.

[@looking_33]

I was curious your thoughts on the wood screws vs bolts through the neck for the nut. I always do the bolts through, the wood screws that come with it aren't a very aggressive thread or large enough. I've had them move when adjusting things.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@looking_33 The wood screws work just fine, in my experience. The strings actually exert a lot of down force on the clamp as well. The nut needs to be properly placed and the screw pre-drill holes need to be small. I use a bit of wax on the threads, to get the screws to thread nicely. Those through the neck bolts are fine on a Strat type of neck, but I would never install them on a tilt back headstock like a Jackson or Gibson. As long as the wood screws are precisely installed, they are more than adequate. I too have seen some not so great installs on inexpensive Chinese type guitars. The clamp itself is very important. An OFR clamp or a 1000 series are all that I’ll use. They are well built and SQUARE!! Lol Something that can’t be said for all that off brand licensed junk on the market. Thanks for watching and commenting! 🤘

[@kellypeterson2625]

Good video. According to the Floyd chart, the only one that isn't a 10" radius is to the r10. Which I have found nigh on impossible to find

[@joefrisco]

There are two dimensional foces. The outer two springs produce a y and x force. The x is the cosine of the angle times the spring force times two for two springs. The middle spring for the most part can be though of only have a x force. However, I never t to analyzed it to this degree when I changed out my wilkerson to a floyd rose in my 1989 Charvel Model 6. I just put the new springs in with the same orientation as the original factory setup. It felt good I did notice a difference between the pot metal wilkinson and floyd rose. Good information.

[@christopherallen5603]

I removed my spring retention plates on both of mine but actually for the purpose of being able to thread the block/plate bolts in deeper.. why? Because every 1-2yrs I'd take my trees apart for maintenance & typically noticed I'd have to retighten the bolts a bit.

[@Metalcop5150]

That's fair. I've seen guys remove the spring tension plate, to get the Floyd more 'flush' mounted with the body. To be clear: all I'm saying is that in my experience, and that of hundreds of thousands of other Floyd users, including EVH, Warren DeMartini, George Lynch etc. etc. all of their tone is just fine, with that plate left in place, as it was designed.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

A few drops of threadlock will solve your problem without you having to eventually replace your leaf springs.

[@Dix-j8b]

If memory serves.... R1 was actually made for putting a Floyd on a 70s-80s era Flying-V/Explorer. It was also used on the original Vivian Campbell signature Kramer Nightswan.

[@Dix-j8b]

Addendum to above.... The newer late-model Nightswans have a standard Kramer neck (wider) and use the R2.

[@Metalcop5150]

Yes, I'd heard about the Nightswans but not the 70's-80's Flying V's and Explorers? As far as I know, those were made to original Gibson spec, which has been a 1 11/16 nut, since the beginning of time, which would be an R3. I have no use for a neck as narrow as the Nightswan or the Music Man VH guitars for that matter. Just a preference, for me.

[@gregceltorius4962]

excellent break down, thank you. regarding the fine tuners…on one of my guitars, a fine tuner doesn’t seem to be doing its job properly…any insights to that? it seems to be looser than the others.

[@gregceltorius4962]

would removing that “shim” plate create looser fine tuners?

[@Metalcop5150]

1. It may be as simple as that 'finger' on your spring plate is a little bit bent out of shape? You an turn the fine tuner all the way up, at it's loosest point, then bend the spring tension plate, with a set of pliers, so that it then provides more tension to that fine tuner. I've had to do that a few times in the past. Sometimes it can be easier to take the whole darn thing apart, to bend those fingers in the fine tension spring plate 'up' so that they provide more resistance. 2. Failing that, I would try a new fine tuner. The only issue is that the fine tuners are 'shot peened' which means that after they are installed, the bottom threads are purposely dented in, with a punch etc. so that the fine tuners then won't back out, or can't be easily removed. Hopefully a new fine tuner will do the trick. 3. You could try running a tap through the Floyd plate, if you have access to a proper metric tap and die set. The worst case scenario is that the plate itself is worn out and that means replacing it. Also; check to make sure that your spring tension support plate is still on the guitar!! lol It really makes a difference. 🤘

[@d.j.9961]

Plz excuse me, this is possibly my 1st time onto your channel. With my collection & wanting to ditch the floyd rose Special & upgrade, where is it I can get these original floyd systems? Personally, I LOVE the Bendmaster trem & my fine tunners turn so effortlessly & it keeps tune better then any other guitar I own out of 22 guitars, I still go back to my Westone spectrum LX & ST. My point being, you have my attention & I need to upgrade to a better floyd!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@d.j.9961 eBay and Reverb are the best places to locate an original (used) Floyd Rose trem. There are deals out there, but you have to be patient!! I have also bought a couple on FB Marketplace. Good luck! And thanks for commenting.

[@hadleymanmusic]

5:18 car has springs and shock absorbers. A stetched sping is under tension . Part of the sound too.

[@hadleymanmusic]

I dont do float either only down an routed to.

[@Metalcop5150]

Completely agree. Thanks for the view!

[@Scott__C]

Good stuff, also love the Kahler channel, Gary and Eddie are great. I don't blame Floyd for the marketing, everyone does it. They're doing it simply because it's what EVH used. If there was a photo of Ed with a piece of toilet paper on his headstock, the next day there'd be 100 videos analyzing if it was some secret to his tone. Suhr uses the Gotoh as he thinks they're the best one. I think the locking post height is great on those. Schaller started with the radiusing for the Lockmeister saddles and the lock nut about a year or so ago. You can choose both for the unit. Slight correction on the nut radii - on Floyd's website, they show that the originals only the R10 has a 15" radius all others are 10" for the original nut. It only shows the "by Floyd Rose" nuts as R3 being 12".

[@jswazz9264]

Nice video- do you know what the replacement nut would be for a Jackson import? I have a R2 nut that i tried on my Warrior but it was a little too narrow and also sat lower than what was on there. The guitar came w a FR Special. The reverse of the original nut had a B43 or something cast into the underside. Thanks again, i enjoy all your cool builds.

[@Metalcop5150]

You need an R3 nut. That is 1 11/16" in width and the most 'standard' for a Jackson guitar. I mention this in the video, just as a caption, but the R3 nut is actually 1.25 mm TALLER than the R2 nut!! ( I think I said 2.5 mm, but that's a mistake) So the R3 will be the proper width and height for your application. You can get an OFR product, but a 1000 series nut is also excellent and will save you a few bucks. $30 vs. $50 approximately.

[@jswazz9264]

Thanks man - i did just order new lock clamps from All Parts made in Germany - supposed to be OFR. I will look for a 1000 black nut for a future swap. I really dig modding my own stuff to my personal preferences.

[@williamapolinar1018]

Good job. Ive been playing floyd's since they first came out. Everyone is different. I've had good luck using the " 3 spring " angle position, the only thing I've done for more stability is I use the floyd " heavy red spring" in the middle. Same big brass block and sounds great a little stiff but stays in tune after big bends. Peace

[@KennethRrvik]

There's a lot of BS on the interwebs about tone. Thanks for dispelling some of it! Engineers for the win.

[@BillyTheKidsGhost]

My second guitar had a Floyd Rose and Guitar Magazine made sure I knew how to set it up. But... I've been a Gibson man for most of my adult life, but I still understand how the Floyd works.

[@Metalcop5150]

It's really not that complicated! lol Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@cromcast3305]

9-42 strings tuned to E are impossible to be under 110lbs of tension at a 25.5 or 24.75 scale length. How could you increase the tension of the springs from 80-110 without effecting the tuning of the guitar? If you increase the tension from 80lbs to 110lbs the strings on the other side are going to be WAY sharp, and when you tune them down to E standard again the tension on the springs will go back down as well because you're loosening the strings. What I'm trying to say is, the strings and springs are always going to be at the same tension when tuned to the same tuning using the same set of strings, no matter how you setup or how many springs you use. Now using more springs or stiffer springs will make the floyd feel stiffer when actually using it because it takes more force to move the springs, but at rest it'll always be under the same tension or else the strings wouldn't be in tune.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@cromcast3305 Thank you for reiterating my point. Increasing tension is twofold: for feel on the bar and/or for larger strings. Don’t forget about A LOT of Floyd players who are using top/flush mounted Floyd’s, EVH style. Thanks for watching and commenting. ✌️

[@MAX96MENDES]

My first guitar had (and still has) a Floyd-Rose Trem, and I love it. Always in tune ! Easy to set up for me. Those people who don´t know how to set it up, or use it, I feel bad for them. The only other tremolo system that comes close to being as good as a Floyd-Rose is the Vega-trem.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@MAX96MENDES Completely agree. It’s not a super complex device, it just takes a bit of getting used to. The Floyd is really simplistic in its design, and the only time it’s a pain to set up is if you want it floating, then it can be a bit fiddly to get it in tune and sitting level. Other than that? It’s easy street. Best tremolo in the business, bar none. Lol Thanks for watching and commenting! 🤘

[@MAX96MENDES]

@@Metalcop5150 Its true. It is like riding a bicycle. The first time you set it up, it looks daunting and scary. The second time you set it up, it becomes easier. By the third time you replace your strings with new ones, it is really easy ! Its like riding a bicycle. I sometimes change strings 2 to 3 times a year, so it has become easier over time.

[@jangoalchemist]

My 91 strat has 3 springs I got it when I was a kid and didn’t care for it and when I took it to a luthier in my village which was one of the only ones at the time he thought he’d teach me a lesson and replaced them with random Chinese springs plus took some black screws that guy is on my shitlist and it took me a few years to understand that’s the reason the bridge don’t set anymore

[@daneph]

I love the Floyd rose, however in my personal opinion the licensed ibanez edge took it a notch higher

[@kellecetraro4807]

Facts🤘🏼 I love my Floyd, but I'm infatuated with my Edge

[@Metalcop5150]

Have to respectfully disagree! While a lot of players prefer some of the changes made by the Ibanez, like the out of the way fine tuners, lower profile saddles etc. The thing that I simply can't get past is that the Ibanez products are made out of cheap pot metal and the finishes are not durable and don't hold up over time. Rust and corrosion issues are more problematic with the Ibanez systems as well. I prefer the old school German tool steel Floyds, with some of the most durable finishes I've ever seen. But to be fair, I'm stuck in the 80's and I'm happy there. lol

[@kellecetraro4807]

@@Metalcop5150 I have Ibanez guitars that are 35 years ( or more) old with Edge trems they are the modles from the 80's I think mine were made between 86 and 89, I have Kramer's / rebranded ESPs that are same age and older with Floyds..... I haven't had any of the troubles you're referring to with my Ibanez Edge tremolos, I think you may be referring to other tremolo systems Ibanez uses

[@kellecetraro4807]

@@Metalcop5150 I have original Edge systems on my guitars and the fine tuners are nearly in the same spot maybe a small tilt back. The Saddles aren't necessarily low profile although they're not as squared off. I know years later they came out with the Low Pro Edge that has the low profile everything like you're talking about and I wasn't particularly a fan of those although I didn't get a lot of time with one. With that all being said all of my Floyd's and my original Ibanez Edge trems work perfectly to this day with the expected wear. I do a pretty good job of keeping them maintained. Loved your video keep up the good work 🤘🏼

[@Metalcop5150]

@@kellecetraro4807 People love their Ibanez Edge trems! And that is cool. They're just not for me. If you keep them well maintained, they will work great for a long time. The finish will 100% still wear off, but they will still function as intended! lol.

[@MachineGunBoy245]

This is a great video man, really educational!

[@Metalcop5150]

Thanks for the view and the kind words! It is truly much appreciated.

[@Lewd.audi0]

I put 5 springs on mine 12 years ago. I couldn’t remember why when I started playing again . I thought maybe it was a mistake and I was ruining my sound. I do use the heaviest set of strings possible. With no whammy bar. Should I change it ?

[@Metalcop5150]

@@Lewd.audi0 Only if you would like to start using your ‘whammy bar’! Otherwise, leave it alone, it’s not hurting a thing. *If you wanted to start using your tremolo, I would recommend using the least number of springs and the minimum amount of tension necessary, to equal your strings tension and keep your trem level and flat. If it ain’t broke? Don’t fix it!! 🤘🤣

[@anpleidhceeireannach9498]

It can be hard to get them to balance with less than 5 strings if you use heavy strings

[@red7fifty]

So, to put an Original FR (to replace a Special) on a Jackson, with a 12-16" radius neck, but the OFR is 10 or 12", what do I need to do/buy for the correct 16" radius?

[@Metalcop5150]

@@red7fifty It’s all good. The 12” radius on an Original Floyd Rose will work just fine. Jackson has been using the (10”-16”) compound radius since the beginning, with the stock OFR. Nothing custom necessary. It will drop right in and play perfectly. It’s a really good compromise on the radius w/ a good setup. Do it!! You won’t regret it.

[@Kashed]

I still have a Floyd Rose without the fine tuners on my first guitar. Kramer. Some people say they are special if set up properly and never go out of tune. One of those people is Guthrie Govan. I have never had an issue with it and the only other trem I like is the low profile that was a special order on the Ibanez 550’s and 570’s in the late 80’s early 90’s. They still have fine tuners but it’s very low. Anyone else have thoughts on these?

[@Metalcop5150]

I've built and owned several guitars with the non fine-tuning Floyd Rose. To me, it's a giant PITA to set up and tune, way more hassle than it's worth. Brad Gillis loves his, but it's all he's used for 40 years. On the Govan guitar, he doesn't use a locking clamp and uses locking tuners, so that's a completely different animal. I'm not a fan of that arrangement, but some people really dig it. It may be a style thing. A lot of players find that the fine tuners get in their way. Steve Vai being the main guy who had that issue. George Lynch used to put duct tape on his fine tuners and I saw Marq Torien playing an old San Dimas Charvel and he had duct tape over ALL of his fine tuners?! I cut my teeth on the fine-tuning Floyd and really built my playing style around it, so zero issues, for me.

[@Zombie_13x33]

lol. i saw that video. i like to run 4 springs and a blocked floyd or just 4 springs with a balanced floyd. i like it to be really stiff.

[@Metalcop5150]

Cool. That's the whole point. There is no right or wrong, do what works FOR YOU!! 🤘

[@zanzabar4ky7]

The saddles are not always different. Some have shims and are all flat or close to it. Sometimes they are staggered with shims and are not short to tall without the shim. Best to track how you took them off.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@zanzabar4ky7 If it’s an original Floyd Rose or a Schaller produced trem or even a Gotoh, the saddles are all staggered height. I can’t vouch for all of the other various knock offs, though. But if it’s a FR produced trem, even a Special they are all staggered. The individual shims would only be used if you needed a different radius than the 10” or 12”. Thanks for watching and commenting. 🤘

[@zanzabar4ky7]

@@Metalcop5150 my 1000 on my Epiphone ghost horse came new with the saddles out of order and 2 shims. I have w fender hm strat that has an original with all flat saddles, but that was used.

[@zanzabar4ky7]

@@Metalcop5150 they are not individual sims but a 4 saddle width shim and a 2 saddle width shim

[@Metalcop5150]

@@zanzabar4ky7 That’s to get a different, steeper radius like an 8” or 7 1/4” by the sounds of it. The saddles should still all be staggered in height. Unless you have a very, very old prototype Floyd bridge!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@zanzabar4ky7 Maybe a Fernandes built Floyd (cheaper) for the Japanese Focus or Striker series? There’s a lot of oddball stuff out there! Only the real, German made Floyd’s adhere to these ‘rules’. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@coryfeldman-hz2yj]

I had a Floyd installed on my 2nd guitar. I foolishly set it up differently than he gave it to me. 5 springs .12 gauge strings like srv. The posts ripped through that plywood body, broke the pick guard. It took a year or two of that abuse though sounded good doing it.. I always wondered why we put the same amount of spring tension on the low strings as the high strings though.

[@ScottyBrockway]

The 1984 and 1000/EVH are different, the base plate is machined and not bent, also the fine tuners have a finer thread pitch on the 1984/OG. I can't stand the 1000/EVH fine tuners. The special's are junk and should be avoided. I prefer the screw in bar, just needs a little purple locktite to keep the nut from loosening. The newer nuts are different too and the front face is flat instead of having the slight angle about 2/3rds way up the face like the old ones did, they also have sharper corners and need some filing or you can cut your hand on them like a sharp fret end. Oh and they are not the same thickness which causes problems if you need to replace one. I hope the new plant makes the saddles correctly so the brass stoppers don't fall out, they've been really bad for years now about that. "Techs" that can't setup a floating trem need to learn how, just hating on a floating trem means you don't understand what you are doing, and you are incapable of meeting your customers needs.

[@Metalcop5150]

I'm with you. I don't like the fine tuners on the 1000 or the special. As soon as I touch them, I go "not the same'. I've been using and abusing original Floyds since 1985 and the feel and build quality of those cheaper units just stinks. I'm also not a big fan of the Gotoh trem that they used on the EVH/EBMM nor the Pink on the Peavey Wolfgang. They just feel and look cheap, if you know what you're looking for.

[@ScottyBrockway]

@@Metalcop5150 I have a 1996T on my 81 Washburn A-20V, its a good trem and sounds fine and the build quality it good. It's not a Floyd, but Floyd's don't always work on some guitars because of the narrower post spacing they have. What I dislike is the Spyder, Edge and all the cheap knock offs from the 80s that are total trash. The Edge in particular because of pot metal parts, it sounds like it too. Most of the cheap ones aren't hardened and the knife edges wear out fast. I wish I could find a Floyd steel block for less than $90 tho, I had one in the early 90s and kick myself for selling that trem.

[@nicholasmullins3693]

Bro the springs come that way. What was that dude's beef? It's like the dude literally said "Floyd Rose doesn't know how to set up their own bridge system"

[@Metalcop5150]

Pretty much. Someone even said that in the comments. I guess everybody else is smarter than the original designer and engineers?! lol

[@CharlesRoss2007]

Thank you so much for sharing what you know, it has a ton of value and I really appreciate it!

[@Metalcop5150]

@@CharlesRoss2007 Thanks for letting me know!! I truly appreciate the support. 🙏

[@kaz0271]

What's with the pitting on the trem plate/saddles? They're meant to be machined, hardened steel. Usually the pitting is associated with cast parts, maybe something going on with the chrome plating?

[@Metalcop5150]

In my experience, it's just on the chrome finishes and it takes quite a few years to develop. If players would simply maintain their Floyds, clean them occasionally, put a bit of 3 in 1 oil on them, with a toothbrush, oiling all the moving parts and it provides corrosion resistance to the mild steel parts etc. Floyds still have the most durable finishes of any trem out there. Especially if you can find an original from the 80's / early 90's.

[@-Zbrozlo-]

First case is about "Dave's World of Fun Stuff", right? :D When I first heard about "removing the tone sucker" it made me confused, and I thought the same thing you mentioned here - it wouldn't be there if it weren't necessary. Thanks for the video!

[@aliensporebomb]

Dave's an old school bass guitarist turned guitar repair guy. I've learned some cool stuff from him but I'm surprised he doesn't get the Floyd thing because they're pretty much identical to other "spring tension equal string tension" trem systems, it just seems more intimidating due to the appearance and seemingly extra hardware. Look at his videos about Rickenbacker bass guitars. He doesn't get along with the bridge systems on those either.

[@Cetra777]

Do you know what the key to really good trem fluttering is? Is it a matter of playing with lighter strings? Less springs? Combo of both? Would really like your input as some of my guitars flutter great and others barely at all. It's something that's been driving me crazy trying to figure out.

[@Metalcop5150]

I think that you would need the exact amount of string tension. just barely enough to overcome the strings, and so that the tremolo will lay flat. Meaning the absolute least amount possible. I don't do the flutter, I used to, but it's been years. Maybe you want the max spring tension possible, while maintaining your setup. I would try both and see what works better.

[@BradRocker]

Can you give a link to that " Performance Brass block" ?

[@Metalcop5150]

Here you go, my friend: www.performanceguitar.com/product/floyd-rose-inner-block/

[@BradRocker]

@@Metalcop5150 Awesome Thx so much.

[@skyscraperGB]

Re: Nut Sizes. You state (and show a chart) that an R3 nut has a 12" radius. However FR's own website states that a 3 has a 10" radius. I also have a chart that I downloaded from the FR site long ago that states the same. Also on the chart you show, although it states that the 3 and the 4 have different radius in inches, the millimetre measurement of the radius is stated as the same (254mm). How can this be if they are different? What is the provenance of this info and how accurate is it?

[@Metalcop5150]

@@skyscraperGB The chart came directly from Floyd Rose!! There are copies of it all over the internet and it’s what dealers use. But you are indeed correct, there is an error in the chart I pictured?! Every other chart I’ve just looked at shows that the R3 has a 10” Radius. I wonder if there was an older graphic that was superseded or if any changes have been made to the specifications over time? Thank you for pointing this out to me. 🤘

[@Metalcop5150]

@@skyscraperGB Now I’m seeing just as many charts online, stating that the R3 has a 12” radius. I have 3 OFR nuts, in original packaging, and the chart on the packaging shows 12” radius?! This looks like the answer here: www.rig-talk.com/forum/threads/wow-floyd-r3-locking-nut-specs-not-correct-for-12-radius-fingerboard-what-to-do.255487/ The charts and packaging are being used, interchangeably, but the OFR is 10” radius and the 1000 series R3 (only !)is 12”. JFC, why can’t they standardize this or make it clear about the differences. 🤦‍♂️

[@skyscraperGB]

@@Metalcop5150 I've long had issues with the quality and accuracy of information coming out of FR (I've also got problems with the quality of their customer service but that's another discussion). EDIT- Just seen your edit above. That's pretty much what I understood the situation to be. HOWEVER, I have a Gibson V with a factory fitted 1000 series and the replacement nut I ordered from FR (the #3 they offer with a 12" radius) is too narrow. It came with a BR3 which is the only one with the correct width and radius.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@skyscraperGB That’s possibly the same issue, the *1000* series DOES have a different radius, so that would explain the different heights. I believe the 1000 series is only available in R2 and R3, so they should not be compared to the OFR specs nor on the same chart.

[@erickaufmancustomguitars1351]

I work on them. I love them. That out of the way now the only part that matters. Does it return to pitch after diving ? If it does, then nothing "hung" up. IF it doesn't, why ? What "hung" it up ? Did the string stay in the locking saddle, or did it move ? Out of tune Did the string slide thru the lock at the nut ? Out of tune Is the spring rubbing the wood in the spring route cavity because of poor alignment , bad spring claw placement, or wrong size block ? Is the arm mount rubbing the wood ? Ohh, nothings rubbing and nothing moved, gee you're still in tune....cool. It takes more work to set up a floyd correctly. Anybody bitching about working on a floyd is really just telling me they don't want to wotk. They are lazy. Same thing about stainless steel frets. Those guys who bitch its too much work. Its probably too much work to assemble a bologna sandwich too. Ohh, reading the floyd chart with the width and radius numbers.... priceless.

[@kellyreed8714]

For the fine tuners is brass better than plastic?

[@Metalcop5150]

Lol, YES?! To my knowledge nobody is using any plastic fine tuners or otherwise on a guitar bridge? They would definitely not hold up over time.

[@kellyreed8714]

@@Metalcop5150 mine are metal. For some reason when I was looking at them last night I thought they were plastic.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@kellyreed8714 That's what I figured. lol

[@andywatson1892]

Van halen uses a block on his floyd rose so he only goes lower with trem and not higher

[@Metalcop5150]

I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but this is perhaps one of the most obvious and common knowledge things ever, that you commented about Van Halen. I'm not sure what your point is, in relation to the video? Thanks for watching and commenting, I appreciate the support.

[@Gliese710_]

On my guitar with a vintage Strat trem and 12-62s I have to use 4 springs but on my prs de with 12-54s I use 3 straight, I might have to try 2 angled

[@Metalcop5150]

@@Gliese710_ Those are some heavy strings!! I don’t think 2 springs will cut it… lol Give it a try and let me know! 🤣🤘

[@oldbladderhorn]

So..? those two screws are adjusted to get a perfect feel for the tremolo bar After the springs are set in place... isn't there a hydrolic device now available that sits in the centre position that does away with the centre spring giving an even better feel to the whammy dive and pull up.

[@Metalcop5150]

I think you're referring to the Tremsetter from Hip Shot. It does take the place of the center spring, and I believe it's main benefit is that you an rest your hand on a floating trem, without it moving, and it provides stability for bending and if you break a high string etc. That thing has been around for years! I actually ordered on in the early 90's, old school mail order. They didn't accept credit cards, so I was to mail in a paper check. I never followed through with the order!! lol.

[@oldbladderhorn]

@@Metalcop5150 aye yeah thats the name, the Tremsetter I'd forgotten and also forgot to give a thumbs up 👍👍👍👍 so here's a few for a reasonably good piece of information about them bomber tremolo thingy's me I never was into them they looking way to hard to be messing with when you get a snapped string.. prefer a bigsby tremolo they is reet petit for old style country swing.. I read an article that the late great Jeff Beck had them installed just for that very same reason of stability in all his wammy guitars it must have given him that extra boost. an old guitar acquaint had a very first edition Floyd he had it installed on his number two guitar back this in 1975 said have a go Pat tell me what you think ??? damn it was set so light i couldn't play a damn note I think he was trying to off load it on to me.. so I just fk with his head a while got a free joint out of him as he thinking to stone me into a quick sale. me an my best pal just out staying our welcome perfectly. just some ancient Welsh Rhondda valleys history of when I was a straggly bearded yooof just perfectly useless I an my pal totall scruffs. Cheech and chong but with no talent.

[@michaelcarey9359]

I just hate the locking nut... the only reason for it's existence is that locking tuners were not sold when the Floyd Rose was released. used them for years until the roller nut and locking tuners became a "thing". I have one guitar with the original FR and LSR nut and locking Schallers, as well as one with the Non Fine tuners, and it's much easier to string, setup and especially TUNE from the headstock, without the locking nut... still "double locking", just at the bridge and tuners. Sure, having the nut and installing it might be cheaper than a set of locking tuners, but the ease offered by the switch is much more valuable

[@Metalcop5150]

A locking nut/clamp and locking tuners do NOT accomplish the same task. The locking clamp takes the place of the nut, and removes that as a tuning variable. Even with locking tuners. the strings can still slip past and catch on the nut. It takes an excellent set of locking tuners, and the perfect nut (like a PRS) with properly sized grooves and possibly even a lubricant to get *close* to a locking clamp. Both have their place, but I have never found locking tuners as a replacement for a locking clamp.

[@mik99D]

Hooke's law states that the range of elasticity of sny material is equal to the stress(force divided by area, in Pascals) divided by the strain (extension of material / original length) in metres. Hooke was a famous mathematician and physicist. I'm a physicist and engineer. So you are correct. Your interlocurtor is and will probably remain, a non-physicist. Physics is explaining the reality of engineered and natural things. That makes you a physicist buddy. I will post you a certificate. (Regards Dr MRD)..

[@Metalcop5150]

Thank you so much for the kind words!! Even if there were a few .25 cent words that I had to Google!! lol I am anxiously awaiting my certificate... Seriously thank you for watching and commenting. It's nice when someone with well above average intelligence agrees with me, for a change!! Ha

[@mattjohnson3480]

I dont have a problem setting up the Floyd. But you've got yourself another sub for great content and information! Cheers mate!

[@johngallagher7884]

What do you think of the new Tremoline tremlos? I think there out of Bulgaria.

[@bubrocker]

This is hilarious! love the irreverence towards the dipshits out there. Also super helpful and informative. Keep doing what you do man!

[@Metalcop5150]

Thanks for watching and commenting, my friend!!

[@eddiejr540]

My old German Floyd from circa 1982-83 has the hash marks (I, II, III)…and I prefer the studs to the wood screws cuz over time the wood screws loosen and “lean” forward to the bridge pickup 👍

[@Metalcop5150]

@@eddiejr540 Really depends on the body wood and the type of installation. I have several 80’s guitars that have the wood screws and the studs are perfect. I think you’ll find that the wood screws are more likely to lean and move on guitars that have been modified w/ a Floyd, and there simply isn’t enough wood there. If the Floyd is a top/ flush mount those screws are mounted deep in the body and they will literally never move. At least that has been my experience. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@Okay-George]

the majority of tone comes from your fingers and the speaker in your amp.

[@Zombie_13x33]

am i the only person who thinks this should be common sense, like everything you said? the people on the internet giving bad advice are just idiots lol. great video!

[@Metalcop5150]

You'd think, right?! Just yesterday a guy posted that he'd taken his Floyd apart and given it a good cleaning... over 20 years ago?! He had put the saddles back on in random order and they were all messed up! lol And he played that guitar for over 20 years like that?! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@SloppyGoat]

It doesn't matter if you want to angle the springs. It makes absolutely no difference. But I like at least four in mine. So, mine are straight, and it makes absolutely no difference. Personally, I think it's stupid to put them at an angle. The net tension is still going to be the same. Since that trem is bottomed out anyway, it's not a dual action trem anymore.

[@Metalcop5150]

Its' about the tension when you are actually using the trem, my friend! I agree, when you're using a flush or top mounted Floyd, the tension is whatever it needs to be, to keep the trem bottomed out. But you will 100% get more tension from /I\ this setup than you will with this one III. It's a 'feel' thing, for me. Sometimes you simply can't get enough tension with three straight springs and cranking the claw all the way back, you need just a bit more. And I do NOT like the feel of 4 springs, it makes the tremolo feel way too stiff, to me. Thanks for the view.

[@SloppyGoat]

@@Metalcop5150 I'm just saying, if I put three springs in your guitar, and put the cover back on it, you're not going to know whether they're angled or not, unless you open it up and look at it.

[@AndrewAHayes]

I bought a used Ibanez in 1983 and apparently it was the first Ibanez to get the Floyed Rose, while I was trying it out it was in perfect tune and intonation, I got it home and changed the strings and it just would not stay in tune, I hated that thing, I ended up selling it to a friend who said he would put a kahler in it.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@AndrewAHayes Yeah, not the trem for a beginner, that’s for sure! Lol Just a point of clarification; Ibanez has never used an original Floyd Rose. It’s always been their own proprietary trems. Prior to the JEM, they were pretty much garbage. My ‘beginner’ story: I had an Ibanez w/ Floydish trem around 1985. I didn’t even know how the locking nut worked? I kept cranking on the tuner and it just would not tune?! The string finally broke, and I realized that the locking nut clamped it down and it couldn’t move… kind of the point. 🤦‍♂️Ughhhh

[@AndrewAHayes]

@@Metalcop5150 Guitar shop staff dont half talk some crap, it was a Floyd that was on it, must have been put on by the previous owner.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@AndrewAHayes Not sure exactly what you’re saying? It was modded w/ a Floyd and you didn’t like it/ couldn’t keep it in tune, so you swapped it for a Kahler? You work at a guitar store? 🤔

[@AndrewAHayes]

@@Metalcop5150 No the guy who bought swapped it for a kahler as he had one that worked ok. The guy in the guitar store where I bought it told me the model was the first one to get the FR.

[@brianelkins8604]

You can get different length and different tension springs, so yeah he can be right. But that don't mean it is always so.

[@Metalcop5150]

With all things being equal, 2 or 3 of the same length, same tension springs, if you arrange them angled /\ or /I\ you will get more tension than if you arranged the same springs straight or horizontally. That is basic physics.

[@studowling]

I use .009s and I like 2 straight outer springs so I can get good flutter. And I don't have the mash the claw all the way in. I recently saw a guy removing wood so the springs would reach the block. I can't remember who it was, but I wonder if it was the same guy?

[@Metalcop5150]

@@studowling Probably we’re thinking about the same guy. It was in December of 2021, and the guy took the video down in less than a day. He should’ve just installed a taller block, but instead he chiseled and routed the wood away, to make the springs go down at an angle. A complete and total hack job. The guy should never touch another Floyd Rose equipped guitar, ever.

[@danwilhite]

Great video! Thanks!

[@zanzabar4ky7]

I have been on a wait list for an r10 from Floyd rose's website for almost 3 years. I should have ordered the chrome one before they started retooling. I might get a 1996t nut at this point or an Ibanez one.

[@SloppyGoat]

If you still have an original Floyd Rose, they sell a push in arm kit. It's a lot better than anything they came with. You don't feel any slack in it. And who the hell wants a threaded collar type anyway? They all end up wobbly, and/or loose. And you can adjust the tension on those, so it'll stay where you left it. I like the GOTOH, myself. Now, that's a precision machine, if you're lucky enough to have a guitar it'll fit in. BTW, a bigger block is heavier, and therefore has more kinetic energy. So, it not only feels more stable, it actually is.

[@Metalcop5150]

I prefer the old school, screw in arm assemblies, as found in the Floyd 1984. It's just what I've been using since 1985 and what I'm used to. There is a tiny bit of slack, but I've grown to actually like it. Thanks for the view.

[@SloppyGoat]

@@Metalcop5150 Yeah, you'd be amazed at the push in. It stays as tight as my GOTOH, which is an inner threaded arm. No play whatsoever. And it was only like $12 bucks, I think. I was amazed at the quality, and the difference. It turned my old original FR into something that feels so much better.

[@SociopatheAssume]

8:58 Amen to that my friend ! I've always kept it simple : any OFR or fender style Trem, I use the springs just like you do on the video. Any Ibanez Edge/ lo pro Edge, they comme stock with the 3 springs parallel to each other. Never had a single problem like that. The only time I've run into problems when I was younger, is when I read the BS that a lot of people post on any Guitar forums. 13:00 Well, I can say that Adam from FU Tone pretends it's a "tone sucker", and tbh, he has some good stuff but also some other shady ones, where he doesn't say where it is made, and really overprices his stuff too. But on the "tone sucker" BS, the "shim" (sorry , I've always called it like this) is there for a reason, any people try removing it and you will find your fine tuners super loose and overly sensitives, particularly if you like to rest the palm of your hand on the trem, you will literally detune your guitar in seconds. Remember, it is there for a reason.

[@Metalcop5150]

Not a huge fan of FU Tone products. Agreed on the comments as to where they are made (most likely: China) and what grades of titanium and other metals is he using? Not that it matter so much, but when you are charging literally $450 for a titanium big block? It better be the top grade available, and it very likely is NOT. To my ears, installing all of these titanium parts makes your tone shrill and harsh (very treble-ey) Someone else pointed out that if you have a dark, muddy guitar then the FU Tone stuff can really help? I never thought of it that way, but I'm sure it would work. As you can tell from the video, I'm not a big fan of simply removing parts, that are engineered to be there! lol Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@SociopatheAssume]

@@Metalcop5150 Absolutely agree : I asked Adam this exact question, never had any answer : what company would add/keep a part that not only has a manufacturing cost and assembling time , but is also a "tone sucker" ? It doesn't make any logical sense, neither does it on an elementary economic level, and all this on a product that has been on the market for 40 years........

[@taz3672]

I'm not a tremolo guy. I had a bunch guitars years ago with Floyds and I really never used the tremolo. They stayed in tune very well when dive bombing and pulling up. I sold the guitars over ten years ago because I prefer hard tails. I regret selling one of them, which was a Randy Rhoads USA custom with the lightening in the sky air brush art with the original Floyd on it. So, I recently purchased a used ESP/LTD GH200 with a Floyd Special. The trem and locking nut was really bad. Worse than what I remember from the cheaper model trems. So I purchased a fast loader trem with locking nut from GFS for shits and giggles. I had to file the deck for the nut to lower the string height at the 1st fret and trim 1mm from each side of the cavity route for the trem to fit for up and down travel. Very easy mods to do. I use the Fender bullets with it and it stays in tune. I have it set for dive bomb only and I really like the feel. I like not having to lock the strings at the bridge saddle as well. It sounds better and stays in tune unlike the special. I don't know if the string through saddle is adding better tone but it is a big improvement. Still not a trem guy but I wanted one just to have. It will get used for those EVH licks.

[@johngallagher7884]

Flyod Rose tremlos I've noticed didn't come with shims after the 80's.

[@Metalcop5150]

@@johngallagher7884 Yeah, curious why they stopped doing that. Possibly felt that it was unnecessary and to cut costs. All through the 80’s, 90’s and into the 2000’s I never even considered the Floyd radius even mattering. It just was what it was, and it always played great. 🤷🏻‍♂️