Collector Elitism 4 Dummies

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The word is often thrown around but let's deconstruct it a bit... Elitism.
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Thanks Again!!!

[@mark4flair376]

New show title.... 3 Elitists and a Detolf. Kidding of course, great show as always....

[@shockwave7513]

Personally, I have run into, more than a few times, on multiple platforms, people LITERALLY saying that if you can't afford to drop multiple hundreds of dollars on a figure, what are you even collecting for? The most expensive figure I own is a G1 Overlord, and it took me more than a year to save up for him. But I do see a lot of people behaving like because they CAN afford to pay $$$ multiple times a month that they are somehow a "better" collector than people, like me, who are mostly relegated to buying Hasbro.

[@collguyjoe99]

I want quality for my money, and quality is subjective to everyone.

[@thugg4lif]

All your videos start with you criticizing your critics, everyone is elitist about something. We love you either way, I can’t wait for more of your dioramas, super awesome!

[@Dreadhawk]

I wished they'd stop spending time complaining about complainers. No matter the subject people with negative feelings are more likely to comment/respond. They are a vocal minority. Stop treating the 5-10% of this community who criticize Fans Toys like they are a large part or majority of the community.

[@Wigglyferret]

Okay Bobby, let's have a discussion and I will keep it civil: The crux of my argument is it's not what you say but in fact it's more what you don't say or express. Now to use my personal circumstances in example with your methodology you expressed in the video today. I CAN afford Phoenix. The purchase of Phoenix however may max out my credit card. It's purchase with cash very well would prevent me and my wife from being able to afford food. I work hard but unfortunately there has been no correlation between hard work and earning a fair wage for myself. In this, I am far from alone. We live in an age of growing wage in equality. This has affected many's ability to purchase luxury items, which is essentially what high-end transformers are. Based upon your and your wife spending habits it can be easily assessed that you both are quite blessed with the income to live a lifestyle that allows you to purchase so many luxuries and as frequently as you do. I believe most people are not angry at you for your success. I believe that they are heartbroken over their lack thereof and just want to find some joy in this life while they're here (Will assume for your audience it's pursuing the hobby of transformers). People who are well off traditionally are unable to entertain the idea of what life is like for people who are not as well off as themselves. (Walking a mile in my shoes). When you tell people that are not well off that they CAN afford something when in practical reality they cannot, you come off smug and oblivious. I don't believe people are angry at you for what you have. They're angry because you show complete unawareness of just how blessed you are to have what you have when so many others have so much less. You're normality is another's blessing.

[@torrb420]

The mass failure of Capitalism for you.

[@torrb420]

The mass failure of capitalism for you. Over 60% of America's adult workforce earns less than 33k a year. That same number lives pay check to paycheck. Millions of adult Americans cant even afford decent healthcare insurance...let alone finding money for luxury items like toy collecting. The conversations here made by Bobby and the others, comes more from a privileged place of a bourgeois insider.

[@bigfanboi]

This is why I'm in love with this channel...these are the discussions we need to be having. I was one of the people that thought that there was a elitist attitude in the community (no ko ok, etc...) . This discussion along with your prior discussions about affordability that have grown my opinion. Bobby, your channel is my absolute favorite, and I encourage you to continue and I support you in everything you do. I'll forever be a Skullhead ( so to speak )....lol

[@rodrickgriffin8329]

As we are adults proudly collecting toys we should be way past what someone else thinks. Some things I get KO and I also bought the beast wars MP Megatron and have both versions of FT Phoenix.

[@SentinelBayReviews]

I think a good way of cheaper official MPs is offering something like a MP44 minus the trailer and gimmicky accessories. Prime, Gun, that's it.

[@inflewence]

I think people need to stop looking at disagreement as an attack. The one true elitism comment I see a lot is when people say they won't buy mp44 and they are called broke. Good topic!

[@ismaelreyna5399]

As a consumer, your only job is to buy what you want/need. It doesn't matter what other people buy regardless if it's "lessening a brand," KOs affecting company health, or other economics-related nonsense. Their money= their choices.

[@jirayasama7]

There is definitely a part of every Community that will look down on you because they collect more expensive things. The Realm has really drove home that there is already too many people judging us outside of the Hobby so we should just be happy for one another.

[@VAULT-TEC_INC.]

Danttebay0 What’s “The Realm”?

[@jirayasama7]

@@VAULT-TEC_INC. The Realm Of Collectors is a Facebook group of like minded individuals that enjoy the hobby of collecting. It's a cool group where people discuss things about toys and pop culture without being disrespectful. The admins are on top of everything.

[@jeroenmeester9528]

I personally am a vintage G1 variants collector, but if I like a new figure and I don't like the price I'll buy a KO, I don't play with them that much, so their looks won't fade anyway.

[@VAULT-TEC_INC.]

Danttebay0 Cool, I just submitted my membership request.

[@jirayasama7]

@@VAULT-TEC_INC. awesome! Make sure to answer the questions in the beginning and introduce yourself.

[@bebe13junior]

I really like these videos. You guys really speak to issues that are prevalent in the collecting realm (whether that be TF, Sixth scale etc). Obviously more of an issue with KZbinrs/Reviewers as you guys go public with your collection and opinions. I collect what I want and know one judges me on it. But your opinions are very appreciated and I think you tend to be as objective as you can be with your thoughts. And it benefits us as TF collectors.

[@bigfanboi]

👏👏👏🤜

[@williamkious5349]

Elitism comes into play when the collector of high end mocks those who can't throw Benjamins around (and vice versa.) Or, by extension, mocks the products themselves.

[@brantlisk786]

You get what you pay for. Quality comes at a price. I spend my $$ on quality, not quantity. All excellent points in the discussion.

[@drewc9169]

But do you think mp44 is going to be 4x better than the 3rd party offerings. I think there is a point where paying more is just a waste and I think takara mps are in that range now.

[@brantlisk786]

Drew C Only time will tell. Who knows. I personally mostly collect Takara and FansToys. But part of that is preference. Magic Square and TE Optimus fo look I must say. FYI, I’m a big fan of the MP-10 mold, maybe more than. MP-44

[@rjohnson80100]

Planning and budgeting for these things is a part of this collecting we do. I think when you budget for something and save up and finally purchase an item is so...much more satisfying then being able to right out buy anything you want. Example....I have friends that go on like 6 destination vacations a year and act like its almost boring to them. Where me as a single dad I have to save up for like 3 years to take my kids on a cool destination vacation (Disney). Once I get that trip booked and there. I feel like its a major accomplishment and I can fully enjoy myself and leaves more lasting memories. In my opinion that applies to any major purchases. I finally got a pre-order in for Phoenix. I've been putting money on the side for a while for it for when it reissued or saved enough to get a resale one. Anybody can buy anything if you really want it. You just need to have the fortitude to be willing to cut out unnecessary spending on certain things to get those things you really want after saving for it. They is always going to elitism because people want to feel superior, but I think entitlement is more of the problem. I see a lot more people demanding things or not putting any effort into something and expecting everything is return.

[@AgtWashingtub]

MP scale =/= MP quality/engineering. I dont see how having a cheaper option for a product devalues what you paid/will pay more for. Its not like the Final Victory stuff was of equal quality to a FT or MMC release. They arent bringing down the value of better figures. And why would it be so terrible if someone did do high quality figures at a cheaper price point? Because poor people could afford it too? I just dont get the conversation here.

[@Shaun-cf8mz]

In England we have a really hard time getting any transformers official or not these days

[@NinjaSquirrel30]

You tried Kapow? Always worth eBay for that occasionally gem. Or bite the bullet an order stuff via RobotKingdom. If you wait too long on a line. 3rd party companies rarely rerun a figure strike whilst you can. Hope this some help.

[@FigsNLifts]

I do see your point about budget MPs - however, I personally think they are very needed. Allow me to explain. I'm a 20 year old college student. I work part time, I gotta cover rent, food etc. None of this is too expensive, but it's enough to take up most of my income. I collect Masterpiece Transformers. And I'm happy to spend the money. I spent €200 (about $220) on MP36 Megs. I spent €120 on Maketoys meteor. Hell, I spent €80 on Sunstresker, a carbot. Do I regret it? Nope. Not one bit. However, there are certain characters, particularly B listers - like Huffer or Warpath - who I simply dont want to spend big money on. I want to complete the collection, but I just dont feel good spending €65+ on an MP style Windchatger, yakno? So in that way, a set like the Final Victory pack is PERFECT for me - it allows me to add 3 characters I want but arent willing to drop big money on, for an affordable price, to a lesser but still good standard. Having said that, its B listers - I'd never be willing to compromise on a Prime, or a Bumblebre, or an Ironhide or Galvatron. That's why something like the Open and Play figures arent for me - there just too cheap. I'd rather save for 3 months and but the Fanstoys Galvatron then I would use one months income to buy the open and play version and have some left over. My point is really that I feel there is a market for more budget MPs in regards to B list characters. If your willing to pay more money for a perfect, say, Gears, more power to you. I know what the better product is! but I think that, when limited, there is a place in the market for the likes of Final Victory. Not open and play tho. They can go flush themselves down the toilet

[@alphatrion100]

I love transfomers but im not spending hundreds of dollars a month on action figures. I think thats crazy. There are more things to life.

[@alphatrion100]

@@sleephyead9213 I enjoy my g1 and third party legends. 15 to 40 bucks a piece. One or two a month. How much do you spend?

[@alphatrion100]

@@sleephyead9213 well I also like nice cars, a nice vacatiion,I have a house mantain . you know...other stuff

[@i.still.function3463]

This fandom cracks me up. Sounds like a bunch of little kids arguing over which is better SNES vs Genesis. I'm a strong believer in just be happy for others and stop shitting on one another. Be thankful we all have options.

[@bruhdiconwassi5074]

I’m far from elitist, I just buy Hasbro stuff along with my 2 mp cars

[@roguewar7153]

If everyone could easily afford everything, collecting would be pretty damn boring. Kind of like the dog painting :^)

[@armoriya]

Part of the hunt is stacking the funds to obtain those collectible items that are sometimes a bit pricey. I personally want a quality item for the money that I pay.

[@DJ--ALLDAY]

LOL.. yes LAURA - ..DamIt I guess i'm an ELITIST (with certain things) I'm competitive - I come from a competitive place (NYC) -- but to each their own - I LIKE WHAT I LIKE.... $$$ not being an OBJECTIVE POINT...If u like what you like it DOESN'T bother me..

[@thegreatbrainrobbery]

I recently picked up my first quarter scale statue and uff... price tag aside, if there is another quarter scale statue that comes along I would make it happen.

[@tiger-_-stripe7170]

What up dummiessss, hahaha Sounds like you all agree and I do as well. Its life and everything doesn't cost the same. We all want the best house, car, and toys. Be happy with what you have and if not, work harder to change it if you can. Whatever the case, you can be happy for someone without hating or jealousy. You just don't know how people got what they got, just do you and it will all workout. ps that statue is dope

[@yungkhang]

RIP Harambe. Stay boujee.

[@NotBoringFilms]

ive been collecting TF for just over a year now and of course i started with hasbro figs which do comprise most of my collection. i choose carefully which expensive 3rd party to get when i can. as im building my collection and watching your vids more than a few times youve talked down on hasbro in a way that makes me feel lame for having those figures. it can be an elitist community from my point of view but its never been a thing worth commenting on until this video since we’re talking about it. i have the potp snarl and i love him. someday hopefully i’ll get FT sever but that doesn’t mean the primes snarl isn’t good or worthy of admiration. my point being that yes hollowness sucks, yes it could have more paint apps, but if the figure is FUN and looks the part then there need not be so much dismay when talking about how the figure doesn’t stack up. just dont bash it so hard, because it may be a beginner collectors only option. keep up the good work sir.

[@Trikeboy2]

I had MP-44 on preorder but decided to pick up Transform Element Optimus Prime. After playing around with it I realized I was perfectly satisfied with it and it was so much cheaper so I cancelled the MP-44 preorder.

[@finnickrinzler8907]

I love my TE.

[@anotherLword]

I wonder if the comment that sparked this conversation was interpreted as an attack and caused you guys to respond defensively, when it's possible whoever made that comment (though shrewd) was the one feeling attacked? Perhaps they felt shamed for liking a product with little to no paint/lower price point etc? Who knows... Going by one of your earlier vids i'd classify myself as both a displayer AND a tinkerer. On both ends of the spectrum I feel the costly products are usually justified and the cheaper stuff worth it, occasionally purchasing a high-end figure for the shelf and more often than not, pick up a deluxe from whatever Hasbro's current line is for simple play. I like to carry one around and since expensive MP-style bots usually take a while to transform figures like Siege Ironhide are perfect for that quick fix

[@Aluus]

Actually, if you really want to know... the one who made the comment that sparked this video typically buys whatever the hell he wants, regardless of price point. I just REALLY dislike the mindset of questioning whether cheaper options should exist and telling people they just need to budget better. Collecting should be an inclusive hobby. Regardless of financial means, we're all here for the same reason. We love Transformers.

[@anotherLword]

@@Aluus I'll get behind that. What also bothers me is when collectors feel a level of quality that comes from high-end products should be the bar and anything below it was a waste of time/resources

[@Aluus]

@@anotherLword And let's not forget the concept of paying for a brand name. If you fall into the trap of believing something is inherently better just because it costs more, you are a fool. Example: Tesla's new Roadster is the fastest production car ever, with a 600 mile range, all at less than HALF the cost of the Ferraris and Lamborghinis it will be competing with. Oh, and it's environmentally friendly to boot. Pricier does not always mean better.

[@soulcraft_84]

I don't think it is ALWAYS the case of people subconsciously being mad that they can't afford something. Not everyone is in to the highest-end product possible. Some people just like the main line Hasbro because that is what they like. I don't like things totally covered in paint because I can't flip it back and forth without sweating I'm going to chip paint left and right. A cheaper line that is a little more durable for those that like to transform their figures might be enticing to some. I think 3-pack was a mistake. I would totally buy some of them individually.

[@jasonreyes1342]

Where do you find those random videos of people, lol? Looking forward to Sitdown Saturday.

[@i.still.function3463]

I always thought the exact same thing! One day Bubbeh is gonna get sued for using someone's image w/o their permission Hahahah.

[@dementedrabbit]

He puts out enough videos he probably has a subscription to a royalty free photo service which often have video clips available as well.

[@VRHyoumaru]

I bought the MFT KO of Perfect Effect's Scouting Force/Reflector because the size was more in-line with what I wanted from my collection, price didn't really factor into that and frankly the MFT version was some pretty damn good quality.

[@razingst0rm]

That 3 Mighty Warriors set went on sale from China for 70 bucks. That filled 3 holes in my collection and they look, well...good enough I suppose. If I get Fans Toys I'll just give em to my kids at 23 and change a pop. But that's assuming I give enough of a shit about those 3 characters to do that. Cheap MP-alikes are wonderful for characters where you like them but you don't $100 like them.

[@jeroenmeester9528]

Currently the problem is that KO companies often outclass the official releases, nice example of that is one of those KO versions of Masterpiece Megatron, many fans like the duller and more cartoon accurate paint, that paint is much stronger than that of the official too, and he has a 2nd scope that includes English phrases, all of that for less than half the money of the official one. And then there's the 3P companies, no matter how you turn it, those will never be official Transformers unless Hasbro or Takara buys those factories, and yet, they do fill demand and give good pointers to Hasbro/Takara on what the fans want. If something isn't official to begin with I have no scruples buying that figure from another company that delivers it for less money.

[@robseman5212]

Ok, this will be a bit long, but stay with me till the end. I think everything said here is on point. Where I think people call elitism is when others start speaking in absolutes. "I will never get such-and-such company" or "the such-and-such aesthetic is trash." Or even, "no ko," or "ko always." Having firm principles is fine, but I also think everything needs to be judged on their merits ... And I think we all seek to have our own individual preferences and choices judged on those merits, not a blanket determination. Case in point: I recently made two purchases, both KOs - the KBB version of the New Age Bumblebee, and the WeiJiang of Toyworld's Wideload. I seriously considered the original 3P versions of these as well, but what ultimately made my decision WASN'T price. I had really been impressed with the NA BB, but it was way too small; I'd been searching for a good BB for my preschool-age son, who is just starting a love for Transformers (and Bobby, your videos have contributed MIGHTILY toward that. He loves your reviews), that was simple enough to transform without being trash, and that he could put on and off of Daddy's shelf. The KBB offered that; the NA was too small. For the Wideload, size was also the factor as was build and materials: I loved the sculpt from Toyworld, but the size from WJ just seemed to fit the character better. WJ also added die cast, and reviews seemed to state that WJ had fixed some of the issues of the regular release. I certainly agree there are serious issues with one company directly ripping off another for gain via a more competitive price. However, I think blanket determination tend to overlook important factors such as improvements, aesthetics, and to touch on another of your videos, intent/use. That, as you would say, is just my opinion, of course. And in closing, Bobby, keep in mind that you should consider that folks on here that cry elitism or share strong feelings about your reviews should not be taken entirely negatively; I think it just shows how far we've elevated your expertise in our minds; if we didn't value your opinion so much, some among us wouldn't get so upset that our own decisions diverge so far from yours. That's on us, but I tend to think it's more of an expression of love for what you do than anything else. Thanks for everything!

[@jeroenmeester9528]

I also have to say that I like the Gimmicks of the new Jetfire better and as it's an official product I doubt the quality will be less good than Phoenix.

[@andrewcain5477]

Each to their own I think. If I could afford an MP44 or something of that ilk I’d have it. As I have other priorities in my life (unfortunately!!;)), I have to ‘live within my means’. I think within the community in general, and other communities (retro-gaming being another) there’s always going to be those that would be classed as elitist - much like in life - where there are those that they believe they are better than you for whatever reason. Great discussion as ever.

[@baron_holi]

The Bourgeoisie are catching on

[@Shaun-cf8mz]

Buy what you can safely afford and enjoy it doesn't matter what others got utherwise you go. Icy deepler issue

[@chrisgardner2052]

I'm gonna check the video out and your harvest in the comments during my lunch today.

[@fraser7211]

I cannot understate how i feel about KO makers and their contributions to the choices that collectors have at the expense of the 3rd party. I look at these 400-600$ combiners brought out by the 3p, and i know i wont ever want them because of the price(cept maybe Poseidon). When companies like Jinbao bring out combiners that are not only cheaper but bigger, that hits 2 very big checkboxes for me. for MY wants of a combiner, it needs to be that big because i feel like a kid again when messing with something that big, and its a glorious display piece at the top of a high shelf. Price wise, it puts them finally within my price range of what im able to afford, so to me, Jinbao made my dreams come true. I feel a bit bad due to not supporting the "official" 3p, BUT i never would have gotten their offering in the first place due to the price anyway so i feel thats rather moot. How does this play into the collector elitism? I feel like some people are disgusted by KO companies when they make this stuff because it is a perception that its taking away a majority of the market for a release of theirs, and other people that whole elitism thing where there might be the few out there that feel like this shouldnt be more affordable because it degrades the prestige they feel from owning it. To the former i point to my above statements about price range. To the later i say you can still feel prestige from having your version of it because it is unique in its own way because of quality or paint or size, and if you insist on harping at me because of my choice, then you have a problem.

[@amusedjester]

Whenever you're putting out criticisms, reviews or opinions you'll eventually get responses and counter-arguments. I feel that people that throw around arguments or accusing someone of being an elitist is equivalent to the old "hand in your face" argument. I.E "You're an elitist, therefore your biased or your arguments are of little merit." TBH, I don't like the term being thrown around in discussions because it is meant to stop a discussion from one side while pretending to maintain a high moral ground. You, Bobby and many reviewers, have always been forthright that what is in the video is your personal opinion to be taken at the viewer's expense. The work that many of my favorite reviewers put out there are often times unappreciated but for me these review videos are so freaking helpful to me in making a very good decision on how to spend my hard-earned money on things I want to get. In the end, it is up to each and every one of us to decide what parameters we put up with our purchases. Discuss, argue, put forth your opinions but don't accuse someone of being an elitist just because you are unable to continue with the discussion. I got the 3 mighty warriors for $70 from tfdirect. It was a steal at that price. They are great pieces at that price. When I saw the price, i rewatched all the videos before buying and disregarded my misgivings on certain aspects of the toys. It is a steal at $70, but dang, hummer's and huffer's scale just really blows it for me and I knew it would be from the reviews. And now, Fanstoys has announced their own and it's probably gonna be in the 70 to $90 price for each. So personally for me, more and more Price is now becoming a lower factor in my purchase decisions, or whether it's from a 3rd party or KO or masterpiece. It needs to fit MY vision of what fits in my Transformer collection. Otherwise the value, however cheap or expensive an item was, becomes less worthy. Long rant and I'm gonna stop now.

[@bigfanboi]

Great points

[@NathanSimmonsSworn]

As long as we respect each other, it shouldn't matter what we collect. I would rather pay more for better quality at higher price, and know it will do what I want it to do. I collect MP & Retail, and I know out of the box, Retail figures will not have same quality as a MP or Third Party figure, but that's to be expected.

[@ryanfeiock8812]

I wish I could afford more items as well, but an example of the KO thing... I can't afford MP Megatron, and I really enjoyed the aesthetic of the newest Takara version. I'm almost leaning to sell it now and buying a 3P, but for now I'm happy. But it's like wanting MP Dinobot or MP Beast Wars Megatron... IDK.

[@DragoonMS]

Affordability isn't that big of a deal for me; it's more availability. Once I have the funds, stuff is usually long gone.

[@acea5683]

Part of the hunt is amazing

[@thabuloodles9209]

$120 is my limit never went over that price forget what anyone feels just as long as your collection makes you happy that's all that matters being elite depends on the individual I'm sure most of us collectors believe our collections are elite anyway

[@tony77tony77]

always go for quality NOT quantity!!!

[@Bt3615]

"You get what you pay" is something i hear a lot, however it's not always true. You can pay a lot and get an over complex figure with a overtly busy design with engineering prone to fail in a short time. You may end up with something that's more similar to a Rob Liefield character than a Transformer or even a desperate attempt to replicate the design choices of the '80 cartoon in a totally counterproductive way. My point is that a lot of those expensive toys are ugly or the result of bad ideas and this extends both to third party and mainline and often less costly option are a better representation of the characters. The opposite is also true in a lot of cases obviously. You really have to judge the single pieces on their strength because the price doesn't tell the whole story.

[@llSmallCrimesll]

If a company puts out a G1 modern remake that's masterpiece scale, it's competing with not just another companies interpretation of that character but holding itself in comparison to all the pieces in a masterpiece collection and the final victory figures were pretty lackluster. It has nothing to do with the price. I respect the opinion of someone with a discerning eye more than the guy who just likes everything.

[@brenoferreiraferreira4409]

I buy what I love, ofc I like to think I'm smart enough to know how to invest my money instead of just spending it (with the amount of money I invest with my collecting addiction I need to at least know what I'm doing) and that is why I like buying extra good quality limited action figures, it's not about owning something that very few ppl own, it's about making good investments as I spend my hard earned money, but other then that I just buy what I love. I have a tendency to love good quality items, I believe that's because I'm an overall action figure collector, I only like to buy extra well built, designed, sculpted, painted and engendered high quality items, I'm not saying ppl that only collect a specific character can't feel or do the same, ppl can do, feel and be whatever they want, I'm talking about me and I'm sharing my thoughts about this subject. I don't mind buying cheap action figures (I would rather buy every thing very cheap then spending the huge amounts of cash I spend) but normally very cheap action figures tend to save in quality to be able to achieve such a low retail price point and I can't love a very low quality action figure. I have friends that only buy low quality bootlegs from the 80's and they love them (some of them aren't cheap at all) I find that funny and I love going through their collections but it's not for me. Ppl can have very cheap toys and still be elitist jerks about their collections when they say every thing else apart what they love and collect is bad and it's not worth it because of this or that. Ofc ppl can't avoid liking or disliking things but they can be modest about what they like and polite about what they don't, at least when talking about it. I know that "The best version..." has some subjective and objective points of view but when there's two versions of a character that have the same objective qualities, I will use subjectivity while choosing one of them, other then that, objective high quality action figures will be the ones I go for, there may be some exceptions, like Mega Man Bandai 66 Shokugan mini figures, but most times I buy the best quality item. I dislike the idea that there are ppl that have to buy the cheaper version because they don't have money to buy what they think is the better version, that makes me sad and I would change that if I could. Ppl who buy cheaper versions because they like them best or because, even though they can, they don't want to spend the money, is something that doesn't bother me in any way whatsoever. Elitist jerks are exactly that... JERKS and they should look inside themselves and try to understand why is it that they need to look to other like they're trash to be able to feel good about themselves, I think that is very self-explanatory. Nice chat dummies, thanks for sharing.

[@dare2727]

"The lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of sheep' Tywin Lannister Since you guys had some game of throne references. Anyway great video and topic.

[@cryotekcryotek3321]

If you're comparing yourself to a Lannister and somehow think that's a good thing, you're deluded.

[@dare2727]

Dan Michaels well played sir... well played

[@kalron27]

The comment about MP-44 and those who look down on the two 3rd party options is on point. I hate it when someone drops into a conversation about a 3rd party release and craps all over everyone because they feel anything not from Hasbro is garbage. That right there is Elitism. I understand loyalty to Hasbro, but don't bring the hate to others who are in this for the fun of collecting. In the end, if Hasbro had a problem with 3rd party items, they would have shut it down a long time ago. If they don't have an issue, neither should you.

[@marvinonstage]

I think you forgot to take in consideration that some figures aren't very high-profile and therefore you don't want to spend $150 on a figure like Skids or something and in that case you don't mind getting a cheaper version because it's not a high-profile character. Also I think when some people say they can't afford it they mean they can't afford it and relation to some of the other Hobbies or expenses they have I for one like my cars but I can't run out and buy a bunch of cars and have a huge collection of Masterpiece figures so I have to put more credence on an actual sports car that I want sitting in my driveway versus a complete Masterpiece line and in that case I will be happy with a cheaper version if it looks good on the Shelf for good example the upcoming Skyfire

[@jimivegas]

Super 7 snake mountain! I’m probably going to pre order that. How about you?

[@finnickrinzler8907]

If you have the money good. If you don't save up.

[@Darkscorponok]

I must say I have been quite lucky in most of the groups or friends I have within the fandom, none of us are elitists as such, we may tease each other over bits and pieces but that's as far as it ever goes. On the subject of the new Optimus debates I am on the side of hasbro/takara but only because I prefer how it looks, the other to are amazing alternatives that give everyone a chance to get a prime that looks amazing to them

[@njtxus]

i'm a let the market decide type.personally i'm not getting the new MP prime because that's a ridiculous price for that design and what will probably be lighter than air itself. 3rd (and even 4th party now) do it better and cheaper. I think my max for any toy would be 200$ and it would have to be fantastic.

[@aarongrove4744]

I always ask myself the question when it comes to a purchase.. would I work for free today to have that Transformer handed to me and every single time the answer is yes :-)

[@cybersilver5816]

Main line collector here. I am satisfied with them for the most part. I do see third party figures as something I can't afford, not because they are too expensive, but because I am simply not patient enough to wait the extra time it takes to save. I am a teenager with a $10 allowance a week, the main line works for me. Do I wish that third party and MP line should be cheaper? Maybe just a little. However, do I understand that the quality and engineering put into 3rd party and MP figures do justify the increased price point. Don't bash on people just because they care about figures that are more expensive opposed to cheaper ones.

[@cthuludreams1]

They didn't bash anyone for anything

[@cybersilver5816]

@@cthuludreams1 I wasn't referring to them. I'm referring to a general audience with some generally good advice.

[@cwallacefilms]

"I don't want someone to make a cheaper version of it just so I can have it". "No, I don't want it cheapened. That's kind of the point". Sounds elitist to me. I saw an $80 Tie Fighter at Wal Mart. I have $100 but ain't gonna spend it on that. Tonight I nabbed that tie fighter on clearance for $20. I got DX9 Rhichtoven (sp?) on a really great holiday sale. Those 3 figures for $100? I got them for $69 at TF Direct. I'm all for getting the cool stuff- but I'm even more about saving a buck when I can.

[@Sportimus]

Buying $2,000+ for a statue is ridiculous to me. I don't care how well it is made or hw good it looks, I just don't believe it is worth paying that much for something that is just a display piece. I can think of far more useful ways to spend that kind of cash. But that's just ME. If YOU want to spend that kind of money, and you're OK with it, that's fine by me. If you're happy, that's all that matters ultimately. Good for you. But for me, I'd rather focus on other things. I don't buy for status or under ridiculously high standards, I just buy what I like as long as I'm comfortable with the price.

[@PaulSpurgeon]

That comment from your viewer was butthurt incarnate. Calling something out for being cheaply made within its context isn't elitism.

[@dementedrabbit]

I believe what makes you sound elitist is your statements along the lines of "Should options like this exist? They cheapen everybody else's collections." It's ridiculous to think that because there is a cheaper option that your expensive collection is somehow lessened. A Ferrari is not worth less because a Honda Civic exists. There is an audience for quality and price, and there is an audience for a budget option. They exist separately and there is no reason to take away the options of people who think differently from you. Statements like that make you come across like you're the one who is insecure about your $300+ purchase and feeling the need to defend it by lashing out at the other options.

[@henmar354]

If MP44 looked the best to me. I would buy it. But it doesnt. It looks wonky and fhe back kills it since I can see the back from the front.... which is bad to me. And I dont need to spend more or less to feel better. Magic Square and Transform element both look alot better to me personally. They just happen to be cheaper ...great.

[@eastjm80]

Hi bobby, sorry I’m late to the discussion.(sorry this is a long one) I think this argument is very miss directed. The pieces your were discussing. Mp 44. Quarter scale statues are show pieces. It’s ok to splurge on things like that. But brawn and war path? Bobby you are going to pay extra for that fanstoys brawn, which does look amazing. But then your going to put it in the back of dark shelf and barely look at it again. Most of these characters are just filler so collectors can have the g1 cast on their shelf but if your figures only purpose is to look like brawn from a glance among all these other figures is that really worth over 100 dollars? Unless you have a specific attachment to the character brawn he only has worth as piece of a whole. And if his job is just to stand there and look okay in the background that fanstoys one is not worth it, so it makes sense collectors would want a cheaper option. Being an elitist comes from excepting these show piece standards for all your figures but individually they are very insignificant, I would feel awful putting over 100 dollars on a figure of a character I have little attachment to, just to have the satisfaction of filling a empty spot and knowing that it’s up to the standard of my show pieces like MP 44. once they’re on the shelf all those bells and whistles don’t mean anything, so why pay extra for them?

[@MyHeartIsOpen2You]

It’s toys just like what you like, all that plastic is gonna end the world anyways so let’s just enjoy them

[@dwalk9674]

I have to agree with this point kzbin.info/www/bejne/opy9pYylnqqraMk after the grimlock. There are somethings in this world that some people just aren't meant to have. Not everyone nor everything is equal and not everyone is capable. That's not a jab at anyone and please don't take it that way. The other side of this is the fact that sometimes the price of something does have a better quality, but then there are times where its nothing more than a status symbol and its important to remember that just because something cost more, doesn't mean the value of the item is equal to that cost. Edit: Posted this before the mid-point. I have to agree with all of you guys and gals on this one.

[@masterhoarder9118]

When is my 5 ft tall Tiamat statue coming out?!! Some damn fools need to get on that during my life time.

[@babymoose69]

I've got the magic square prime which i enjoy and the MP 44 looks good and i could buy this figure if i wanted to. but the comment i would make is dose it justifies the price for me no. i also collected the Hasbro lines until they realised i wanted quality of a 3rd party or MP. dose this make me better because i can get this no (i need to work bloody hard to get it). elitist mark to bobby is just not true because all he going off is this experience he had with the many figures. and just putting his opinion in the video. (world love to see a compare on MP-44, magic square prime and TE-01 when they are all out)

[@TrypticOwen]

Interesting. I had a lot of thoughts but they ended up boring... Here's one I think may be worthwhile: We all affect each other. We see that in KO - because some people buy, no-one can trust (or even easily navigate) the secondary market. Quite apart from the question of whether KO forces up genuine prices, etc... I think we also see that in Takara MP, too. They have increased quality but they have increased price at a rate that far outstrips that. Because some people buy, Takara is able to establish a new market value that reduces value for money and leaves some collectors behind. I've tapped out of BW MP. I can afford them but can't justify the price. Maybe I don't want them enough compared to the money I earn but I am at the 70th percentile of UK wages (supposedly... doesn't feel that way, though!) and am a massive BW fan... If you bought Dinobot or Megatron, I'm not hating; I'm not blaming you for me not having them and I'm trying hard (and largely succeeding) to not be envious. I do ask, though, that we discuss Takara's pricing as a community and consider collectively voting with our wallets.

[@8474Starscream]

Left to my own devices I probably would! I believe one can will themselves to obtain goals its just a matter of taking action & discipline. Are u willing to work OT.....are u willing to pickup a side job...are u willing to sacrifice the small things which add up.

[@DolkkarToyznstuff]

I laugh at all the crybabies that can't handle words. If you're really that fragile, you're indeed in the wrong Reallllllllm, "so to speak". Haha! I'm as broke as the next person, but I have never had a problem getting my hands on something that I really wanted no matter the cost when it comes to collecting. If the price is indicative of a great product then absolutely, don't make a cheaper version. Can't is just an excuse, people just don't want to work for things anymore, they want things handed to them. Even as a child I had to earn the Transformers I had except for 2. I mowed lawns, shoveled snow and all in between. My point is if you want it bad enough you'll find a way without neglecting real-world priorities. For those that still aren't convinced, there's a real answer, get a sugar daddy and or sugar mama! Haha! I digress! Great video guys and this doesn't deserve the hate.

[@poloskier1967]

I caught that bane reference😂😂😂

[@drewc9169]

I don't have a problem with these lower price figures cause I feel like the collections will reflect the difference. And if they can put out the same quality and look for a lower price then maybe everyone else should readjust their price. I don't think bobby is an elitist look at his love of zeta toys if he were an elitist he would have trashed that for being "cheap" and just gone for the fanstoys one or dx9.

[@thousandwolves952]

If i really really want a fig idgaf about price

[@TheMrJDizzle79]

Remember how Cartman would always rip on Kenny for being poor? Lol anyway. If you're upset about pricing on MP figures, you probably don't need to be buying MP figures. Prioritize ya life. Not everybody gets a trophy. I bust my ass for my collection. But i also do the same for my house, car notes and utilities. If I gotta question getting the newest Fanstoys tank or a tank of gas for my vehicle, I need to really evaluate things and stop blaming Fanstoys for putting me in the hole.

[@DesertSandSailor]

I have been labled this stupid title before even amongst marvel legends collectors. Theres times I dont want a BAF piece sitting around because I cherry pick, or times I skip the hasbro product because mafex or figuarts is better. Its not like I'm bashing hasbro, or catering to a higher market, I just want a good product/ display piece. Thanks for the Video man!!

[@elruffian163]

Definitely some good arguments .I would rather have the good stuff,just the value compared to other things .like would I spend $400 bucks on a mp 44 or would it be better spent on a guitar or a 3d printer? That eye candy itch can be hard to scratch if it's outta of ya reach.but if ya want it bad enough you'll make that sacrifice for it.

[@existentialismtyrant5722]

I use to buy only hasbro and then a friend introduced me to third party. These days I buy both but for hasbro I can pass on many of the same toys because third parties makes it better. Third parties pushes hasbro and Takara to making better molds and toys even if they use cheaper plastic and they stepped up the mp line so cause and effect however in regards to the mp44. That’s insane. I have 72 Optimus primes including ms te and I love them both. I will not get the mp44 til they get their heads out of their asses. Toys are subjective and people need to realize that. I watch two to three reviews on transformers I want. Yours is always the tie breaker cuz I know what you like and since I swim in the same soup I know your review will be more in vein of what I want but I don’t always agree with you but that’s the subjective part. Basically theres choices and people make them. They need to realize it’s awesome we have these choices and back peddle in the name calling. After all we r all fans of these toys and that’s about the only thing all of us can agree on

[@ronjie]

Just ignore them hate comments. Too many of that on the interwebz.

[@kevaegis]

I think statues and non-transformable transformers are stupid, but that's just me! I've always felt that the soul of a transformer lies within its transformation engineering, and everything else such as character design is just icing on the cake, but that doesn't make me an elitist, quite the opposite. I actually envy people who are capable of liking things that I don't because it generally means they are more open minded than I am and that is a great thing to have. My obsession in what I identify strongly with doesn't make me more or less than others, it just make me, me, whether that obsession is an expensive or a cheap one (money value has NOTHING to do with the 'me'). And if the world is full of just 'me', that would make for a pretty boring world :P

[@countypoe1644]

So think about it this way. IF you can afford a figure, regardless if it’s MP, CHUG, etc., you are doing better than most of humanity. The fact is, those with more $ will most of the time buy the higher end figs. Those with less $ will buy the cheaper option. Both are great!!! There are some societies that allow only those with the most $ to buy items above their essentials. If you live in the USA, you have the opportunity to pursue your dreams guaranteed to you!! If you haven’t obtained them, you have no one to blame but you. Why in the hell do you worry what ANYONE thinks about your collection. Did you buy it for them? Does it make you happy? If not, then shame on you for settling. I wanted the FT GALVATRON’s. I had no fewer than 4 opportunities to buy the DX9 version, way cheaper, but I declined. I knew it would cost me $100 more to get what I wanted, so I waited and saved. Now, I have sovereign sitting on my shelf, and was actually able to get a second figure for less than I had thought it would cost me. It’s not people being elitist, as much as it is people being whiny & entitled

[@nestronicalnet7620]

Almost everything Bobby says is (in reviews for figures) subjective. Things are based off his opinions and sensibilities. You can like open play big spring (lol it's just a prominent example) but it's meant for a certain audience at a certain price point or maybe you just like big spring(heck I liked it at first). But fans toys is going all out with paints, sculpt and what not. Why should harder more expensive work not be rewarded(to the company). If anything put those big springs at fans toys prices (I know we're talking about affordability but this is theoretical) no one's gonna buy a big spring when you can save for a buy a better product for the same price. It's all opinion, what you can save for, supply and demand, and work put into the project. That's my....😏....opinion. It may not have come across clear in this comment because it sounds better verbally or in my head but....yea...lol.

[@Scrimbleitybots]

Good discussion thanks doods. As a late collector playing catch up, I don't feel entitled to cheaper products, but when something is a must-have (like original 3 seekers) I feel worse paying AU$70 on ebay for a KO, and way better paying $100+ for a minibot from XTB or Badcube. So I'm a bargain hunter I guess but I was happy to pay $140+ for Sunstreaker and Kup, $180 for GP Sludge etc. Getting a bargain and quality (say DX9 Richotfen for $60) is rare but I'll take it! I guess the point is more power to everyone able to get in on the 1st release. No entitled sense here! (But I do want those FT Insecticons, Willis, XTB Aegis and Andras to get a re-release like those minibots been getting....) FINALVICTORY4NEVA

[@Qc4073]

It’s the same attitude that says you should pay for my insurance and college because it’s not fair that you have and I don’t.

[@Superdimensional]

The poors lol

[@1mbr0k3ntoys8]

Fans Toys

[@Xsis_Vorok]

To me, there are two things, that are responsible for that comment that led to this video: people have a sense of entitlement ("I deserve to have MP44 for $30), and people don't know what elitism is. Can't fix stupid.

[@dare2727]

yes but the I deserve MP44 for $30 dollars crowd is a very dangerous crowd. They are the vocal minority and they get a lot of people thinking "you know what they are right I deserve MP44 for $30 too" and that is how we get to this point. The community mindset is ran by a small group of people who think like that. I dont see this in the marvel legends& dc/mezco/hot toys groups

[@henmar354]

I feel like thats an oversimplification. No one is saying the MP44 is suppossed to be $100 or less. They just dont see where the money went. The back being a mess shows the engineering was not given enough money. But at over $400 it was supposed to. The fact that the original was 200 dollars , had about the same amount of plastic at the same quality but just had a different aesthetic is mind boggling. The new aesthetic didnt require more money to get it like that , as magic square and transform element has shown. You are being charged 200 dollars extra to have an official product with a terrible engineerd back. If it was $200 i still wouldnt think it was great but I would have seen where most of the money went. I cant see where 50% of the money went with mp44.

[@dare2727]

@@henmar354 the money went to the articulation, engineering plus inflation. people wanted butterfly joints, ab crunches and to be able to stand figures on 1 leg, that is the most expensive part of transformers. Hot toys the money goes to sculpt transformers the money goes to articulation/engineering. Personally i don't like the fact the Takara chose to the articulation route to upcharge (would rather have better paint/more diecast) but hey you win some you lose some

[@Xsis_Vorok]

It is an oversimplification (no one wants to read one of my walls of texts going into more details :P ) and an exaggeration, but when referring to the comment about elitism, it still applies. As Dare2727 mentioned, its a toxic vocal minority that want MP quality for CHUG pricing and that leads to others jumping on board. Maybe using MP44 was a bad example, because I agree with you. I don't see the $400 in that figure either, specially when I have more articulate and better sculpted/painted figures in my hands right now. Anyways, at every new release, there are people who poop on it because of the price without even seeing if the price is justified or not. That's the issue. That's the entitlement to a price point.

[@dylansmith1995]

Angry Comment.

[@BIGLARRY100]

The only time I felt personally you were acting that way was over the Bumblebee movie. Trying to justify your view was the proper view even though the numbers didn't lie. You could have said "well people disagreed" & move on to the next movie. The follow up to justify & sway opinion of it wasn't needed. My views align more closely on cheap figures. Hollow parts for the sake of saving a few bucks is my ultimate complaint on any figure.

[@BIGLARRY100]

Which by the way is slowly creeping into Masterpiece & even a few 3rd party figs.

[@toyshanger8945]

Get over yourselves people, Fanstoys are already making stuff Takara isn’t even interested in making. And even if takara do make, like the bee mp @$150 really? And the quality is not even worth it.

[@roosjen]

I haven’t noticed any elitism among collectors actually, although a lot of people seem to think their choices for their collection are somehow more valid than those of others, I wouldn’t equate that with elitism. So although a nice episode, it feels a little like this is a non-topic to me. Oh well, maybe next 4 Dummies. I do rather like this formula. Keep up the good work guys!

[@michaeldort7069]

only jealous people who dont have the discipline to save the money for what they want complain about prices.

[@Aluus]

Achievement unlocked: Trigger Bobby Skullface Thanks for the round table response. I still say, especially after re-watching the video, you sound like you are talking down to people, especially when saying that perhaps they "can't budget properly," or feel they should have things they don't have because "everyone in their little groups does." Now, having had a chance to actually review and play with the FV set... They're not perfect, but I don't regret my purchase. They're no where close to the level of my Fanstoys figures, but I definitely stand by what I said before about Final Victory understanding who they are and what they make and pricing accordingly. Should they exist? Abso-fucking-lutely. That shouldn't even be something you have to ask unless you're insecure about why you buy what you buy. Do you think people who buy Ferarris get upset when Honda releases a new model of Civic? Absolutely not. The Civic in no way is a threat to them or the quality of future Ferrari models. Nor are these going to impact future "high end" MP releases. Except for perhaps in the "little groups" you mentioned... So let's say you decide to show off your impressive collection of season 1 MP's; everyone of them Takara or Fanstoys. You feel proud. And then the next post above yours is another collection of MP styled figures. For the sake of this argument, pretend Final Victory took off like a wild fire, and this guy's entire season one cast cost him less than $300. But here he is strutting around like a peacock, just as proud of his collection as you are... That little feeling you just had... That tiny frown, the slight crease in your forehead... That's you being a snob whether you realize it or not. Sure, he doesn't actually have what you have physically, but he's got that same feeling and level of gratification that you do for a fraction of the cost. How dare he? How dare the company that made the budget friendly figures he bought? Right? Careful there friend. Your elitist is showing... Now, as for MP-44... My two cents on it for now, and this is subject to change depending on reviews once it's out... It's overpriced. It's overpriced because of the Japanese mindset that certain items are "luxury" items and should cost more. Example: Blu-ray is considered a "luxury" item in Japan. A single Blu-ray disc can cost upwards of $70. As such, unlike the US, Blu-ray hasn't become as commonplace over there as it has here. Takara has priced Prime 3.0 based on what they think you should pay for it, not based on what it's actually worth. Last thing I'll say. Someone mentioned Big Spring. Consider the following: I own Big Spring (with a modified face,) not because price or availability of the others. I had access and means to purchase any Springer I wanted, aside from Saltus who hadn't come out yet (and while he's nice, he's not quite the aesthetic I want in vehicle mode.) I chose him because, honest to God? Of all the MP Springer figures, I just liked how he looked the most in all 3 modes. Some die-cast in him might have been nice, and as I mentioned, the factory face sculpt sucked, but NO ONE should dismiss this figure simply because of price. Hell, I even like the company's philosophy of opening the box up and having to figure everything out for yourself. I can see where you come from with the Final Victory set. But Big Spring? He should make you question if you've been paying too much for your figures these years. Edit: final thought. You should be GLAD figures like the Final Victory set exist. Collecting is an inclusive hobby. People from all different walks of life, brought together by a common love of the same thing. In this case, Transformers. Maybe the cheap set is what gets them to dip their toes in the water and start collecting. Happened with me regarding 3rd party. About a year ago, I owned no 3rd party figures at all. Then I grabbed TFC Toys Medic for $30 or so. This was March of last year. Today? My 3rd party collection includes dozens of figures, and is worth over $4000. I wouldn't be here to suggest you may be a snob of not for one cheap figure enticing me in.

[@nobleyoung4488]

✌🏼🤦🏽‍♂️💭📦🤑📦

[@shaundis2117]

like #250

[@jrock69]

man these guys are pricks this is the same as some one who has a better job telling you at least have a job

[@dare2727]

yea but in this game the people who at least have a job (ko/mainline/final victory) collectors belittle the ones who have a better job (at least in fb groups/you tube comments/boards). I agree with you the guy who has a lamborghini and tells you to be thankful you have a honda civic comes across as a douche but if people are saying to him paying that much for a car is crazy to me than what should he do. We all have different values and what we are willing to spend on those values varies. I think the best line in this video was Robert D saying be content with what you have or life will take it away from you. Granted thats easier to say in a lambo but it still holds true. We all have things we want and cant get whether its material/non-material. The good thing about material things they are the easiest to get

[@cthuludreams1]

If thats what you got out of this, then i don't think you have much listening comprehension, or you just flat out didn't pay attention. 🙄

[@dare2727]

Jsh Pk or I can just flat out call you stupid but to each his own

[@cthuludreams1]

@@dare2727 i was talking to the OP, not you

[@dare2727]

Jsh Pk sorry the way it read on my phone I thought you were talking to me. Again my bad apologies

[@Dreadhawk]

A mustang is not a corvette and a corvette is not a Ferrari. The Final Victory figures are not Fans Toys. People should not be denied Mustang's so you can have a better Ferrari. Saying Final Victory should not exist because it cheapens your potential superior product choice sounds just as whiney as people whining about price. Im not sure how you can't see how that makes you sound elitist.