Mythwind First Impressions - How Do You Lose A Game You Can't Win?

[@nathanlige2961]

Thanks for the review. We (I’m a co-designer) knew that this wouldn’t be for every taste, but I thought your observations are fair. For those that this will appeal to, I think they can see the ingredients here. I hope further iterations bring the premise to life for you.

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks for appreciating. And very much first impressions...I'm intrigued where this goes, and I'm glad to see the campaign doing well. I'm also glad you're experimenting. The very first thing I told Brendan was...."Good or bad....you're guaranteed to be different."

[@laniston]

I'm definitely one of those people in the interested and excited camp. I've backed all in and I think Mythwind sounds exactly like a game I would enjoy. At the end of the day when I play board games I almost always enjoy it. Win, lose, doesn't matter. I don't need a goal all the time I simply enjoy playing. I have a ton of games with great competitive gameplay or long narratives with satisfying stories. Mythwind is the exploration and enjoyment of a pastoral environment with no pressure or time constraints. I need games like this. If I want a similar theme but more competitive/crunchy I'll soon have Sons of Faeriell anyways. So looking forward to Mythwind

[@denycast]

Uhh that sounds like a game for me. Could you try Mythwind yet?

[@ronrubinstein8623]

While this game doesn’t need a win condition, what I think it IS missing is an evaluation metric. Something to reward efficiency. The game should have defined some “end condition” where you get scored based on how well your town is doing - so even though you never “lose” per se, you can still strive for a high score and a more prosperous town. Essentially a system like what you’d find in many Euro game solo modes. Once that end point is reached, sure you could keep building and enjoying your town as long as you wish, but that would be more like an epilogue than the main gameplay. Alternatively you could reset and try again. Honestly I’m surprised this is not the direction they took.

[@davidchilds2935]

It is not the direction taken in any of their inspirations, such as Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing or any of the continuous sims. So no, not surprised there isn't some efficiency rating. That sounds totally an anathema to the spirit of lighthearted exploration and construction of a fantasy town.

[@novarkp6576]

@@davidchilds2935 There is on Animal Crossing. You get the ending when you get your island an A rating for KK to recognize your island. Though after that, you can still continue to play. Something to strive for.

[@jcw59able]

Thanks for the video. Definitely helped my decision. The game looks great, but I too need more of a purpose

[@BoardGameCo]

Glad I could help :)

[@stewy669]

Thank you for this video! I couldn’t figure out what this game was or how it worked (no losing, no winning, and no end?). Your video helped me understand.

[@keirmurray7253]

I thought I saw that many objectives have to be completed by the end of a season (20 rounds), in this sense there is a time crunch and a need to be efficient. The story may play out differently if you miss the objective before the end of the season.

[@voyager5333]

I think the lack of a clear ending is very original and even attractive. "The path is more interesting than the destination." I like the idea to have an endless experience that is not limiting. For example, I absolutely love Etherfields, and can't say I play this to reach the end. I just love the dreams, and the experience it brings. Most likely I may never complete it at all, as is the case for many Legacy games I assume.

[@BoardGameCo]

In the greater scheme of a campaign I'm with you, but on each dream etherfields does have win/loss mechanism.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Rollercoaster Tycoon and Tropico are the most addictive games ever made.

[@BoardGameCo]

They were amazing :)

[@shoruk]

Glad you summarized how I feel as well- I was surprised by the amount of interest in this game but can’t imagine it getting g to the table vs whipping out a phone and doing the exact same thing :/

[@CheddahSlammer]

I mean people that are not board gamers say that all the time to me. Why are you playing insert board game here, when you can take out a vid game that takes less time to set up.

[@shoruk]

@@CheddahSlammer totally agree where it comes to solo games (which this seems to cater towards) - there doesn’t seem to be a lot of player interaction as well? I was looking really hard to back it for playing with my daughter but can’t honestly see us setting it up to make the next building…

[@CheddahSlammer]

@@shoruk Yeah, I am in at the Core Pledge for the early backer stuff, but I am on the fence as well.

[@keirmurray7253]

I'm think this could be good for people that want that experience but find they need to avoid the phone games because of their addictiveness. instead of whipping out your phone every 5 minutes to check on your farm, pull out the game one or twice a week, play a season or two and enjoy the experience with your family.

[@shoruk]

@@keirmurray7253 Yep - but now pay $100+ for this experience... Again, I'm torn. I'll show it to my daughter and see what she says. We're enjoying Descent now and it's very interactive and engaging - I don't see this in the same vein.

[@yoonkl8101]

I asked a similar question about challenges in the game, and this is the response from the designer: "The seasonal goals have a time limit. If you don't complete their set parameters by the end of season, there will be a negative ramification. Your take on journey being the focus of the game is a good one. One of the development challenges will be scaling out how easy or difficult it is to accomplish long term things you may hold important. Say you want to boost one of your reputations as a crafter to maximum value. Or, maybe you'd like to get a Winery built, but there are many steps along the way. We want to make sure that these things follow a reasonably similar arc. That might mean tightening the challenge in some places, and loosening in others. The unique roles give us some freedom to do that independently. The merchant for example will be more challenging to be efficient with than the Woodsman."

[@steveowen7508]

Great analysis. This helped me decide whether to back the KS. Thanks!

[@BenKrefta]

The facebook ad game has been strong with this one, which might explain it's initial success? And I can't lie- it looks great - especially the creature minis. But without an end, I can't see myself enjoying it. I want to, but I'll stick to Minecraft for a quick pick up and play building game.

[@mysticmouse7983]

Sadly the creature minis have no in game purpose which added to my dropping out.

[@CheddahSlammer]

So technically the game does have an end, because it has a story. What happens when you run out of cards or built up the whole town. Even endless vid games have an end, when their is nothing left to do. Many endless games have a peak were you have everything you can, and their is no point to move on. Like for example in Stardew you can get to a point were you have collected every item, maxed out your stats ect. This doesn't seem any different, at some point the town will be fully built and the story will be finished.

[@anarchist_parable]

It's a story-based game. I would imagine the writers behind it, if they're smart, have already written loads of material. They'll be selling us story expansions no doubt.

[@CG_Hali]

It says that once you've gone through one iteration, you can repack, use other characters and brand out in different ways to see different buildings, etc. The game already will come with extra expansions published at the same time.

[@TheRedPolyhedral]

Thanks for this video, and for covering the cons as well as the pro's. After all, without the darkness, we can't appreciate the light. I will also be keeping an eye on the KS campaign, and I'll make my decision in the final 48 hours or so. Whatever happens, it's an intriguing concept and an appealing game. Hopefully, it will be appealing enough.

[@tobyr21]

Alex, thanks for an unusually candid and thoughtful analysis. I have two provocative ideas about how to have a goal when playing this game: (1) After a successful KS, they offer an expansion in which one of four catastrophes eventually comes to pass, and you have to try to prepare for them before they arise. (2) Who needs an expansion? Go ahead and houserule a catastrophe that you have to try to prepare for! It shouldn't be that hard to create a meaningful catastrophe rule after playing the full game for a while. (NOTE: I'm not planning to buy this game in KS.) -toby

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

If I was younger, I'd be all over this game.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, I don't have this kind of mindset anymore.

[@marcwarembourg1864]

Only just saw this one. Thanks for it. very useful as usual. Now that we are 2 years further. did you follow the game ? what is your actual opinion on it now ? As we will soon have a new kickstarter i believe for a second printing plus expansions. I am still tiptoeing about this one. Sorry if you did a new video about it that i did not see.

[@richardred4396]

I played it a few months ago and it was the most boring sleep inducing game I have ever played. And that isn't even the worst part about it. The worst part is: IT IS 90 BUCKS. For this! Wow... I'd rather buy Gloomhaven a second time than this. I put it on ebay the day after. And no, I did not expect Gloomhaven quality or quantity. But for 90 bucks? Even 50 I would have felt robbed. Maybe 40 and I *might* have kept it. But 90.......... Just wow. What an overpriced piece of nothing. No offense here, but this game lacks so many mechanics to make it in the slightest bit interesting to play, in a way, where I as a player try to become a better player. There's no incentive of improving things. It's like a baked potato. Without salt or creme fraiche. It's really just a baked potato. And one that needed 10 minutes more to be at least somewhat edible.

[@1AngelAlita]

I think you nailed it in the Final Thoughts: One needs a reason to play this. I see none.

[@BoardGameCo]

That's where I am so far....I just need a drive.

[@tiagoaguiar1628]

Pretty much the same issues that I am seeing in the long term. Also I see very few coop within the coop. I would love to see cooperation between the production of the characters. Woodsman provides wood for the crafter to build axes for himself, or hoes for the farmer. The crafter gives backpacks to the farmer or the merchant for them to carry more stuff. Merchant selling the goods they make while buying materials for the other players

[@scottarmstrong8178]

Nice preview. Very interested in how it's going to turnout. Definitely something I'm willing to take a risk and back.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yeah I'm fascinated, even now I still want to see how it turns out.

[@Virondata]

Thank you for this great first impression. I hope that your view could inspire the designers to make the game "fight" the players w. bad weather or events players need to prepare for. At least that would give some lose conditions, when it comes to win conditions i think "time/survival" could be it, i am in on this KS but i also need a win/lose condition if i am to keep my pledge.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, I need the same but I think different people are looking for different things.

[@patriziopastore9895]

Thanks man... helps me a lot to understand that is not a game for me and my friends... in any case is doing quite well on KS so good for them

[@techifyedu3941]

I sincerely thank you for this video. I almost backed it at "all-in", but I was on the fence. I've never backed a Kickstarter project, but was found out I was too late to back the "complete collection" of Everdell, so I was looking for other options. (I love Everdell) I think this game sounds pretty amazing! Once my daughter gets a bit older I think it would be a great game to play with her. However, I don't see this as a game I would want to play solo. When playing with my friends I would like more of a game that has some sort of win condition. I don't mind how long a game is and LOVE the idea of being able to pick it back up and continue wherever I left off (this was a reason I was strongly leaning towards purchasing). Near and Far is one of my favorite games that has a similar mechanic. I just like that after 10 games of N&F the game ends with a winner and after each game there is a way of "leveling up" your character for the next game and there's a clear leader as well. Again, once my daughter gets older (currently 5), I will likely purchase this game so that she and I can build our Mythwind village together. I think it will be a great time! Until then, I think I'll hold out until I can get Everdell Complete Collection on eBay or something lol. Thank you again!!

[@BoardGameCo]

Happy to help :)

[@robertsilver6181]

How in depth is the creation aspect of it though? Is the building of the village and the different jobs you do enough to be a challenge? The exploration and story seem entertaining but hopefully there is some puzzle or challenge there to keep your brain working in some way.

[@franciscoconsuegrarodrigue9021]

greetings from Spain. I think you have a spectacular channel and unbeatable content so thank you because the information you give helps many of us. I have to see it with substitutes because my English is terrible but I swallow all your videos. If you allow me the observation, I see that you use automatic focus in your cameras and sometimes with movement the camera refocuses. Maybe you should set the focus option to reactive instead of standard. I just wanted to tell you about it because it's my job and in case I could help the channel in any way. congratulations again

[@FallenB1ade]

Did you end up giving it a rating? Maybe I missed it.

[@BoardGameCo]

No, it's rare that I won't rate a game but too many of the aspects I need to see more of in this game I know they are still developing. As of right now it would be a 2 in it's current form...but that's not a fair rating since it's predicated on a a partial taste of the game system, I believe my final rating would absolutely be higher. Another good example of a game I didn't rate would be Soul Raiders...where they gave me a taste of the game....but only a taste.

[@FallenB1ade]

That makes sense. I appreciate the decision not to rate it yet (as I think it had 14k+ followers on launch). The game is certainly popular, but I also totally see why it isn't for you. I also like win conditions, and I think they could definitely add something to cater to that type of player while maintaining their vision.

[@nickdejager8873]

I don't know about most people, I play Roller Coaster Tycoon and the like to create coasters and ride them virtually.

[@skipperkiefer]

Wait didn’t we just see a similar themed game like this a moment ago? Earthborn Rangers… it was eco friendly, and had really no victory idea but the journey is the game?

[@BoardGameCo]

Yes, some similarities

[@yorairon]

Exactly what I had in mind. For me Earthborn Rangers is much more appealing

[@Phalanx167]

You kind of nailed my own impression. I really want to like the game as a non-competitive engine/board builder sounds cool in concept but I feel like I need more crunch to really get immersed in it. I need lots of sub goals to draw me in, like if there were many different sprite types to collect/win over or upgrades to my engine/playstyle to unlock. Games like Stardewvalley and Animal Crossing are full of that sort of minutia that this game just seems to lack. Definitely will keep my eye on the game, but as it stands it just looks too simple and spare to engage me for hours of what is essentially one long, broken up game session.

[@koonfasa]

Is this like Oath for families?

[@successfulgeek]

I was so ready to pass on this, but he had to use my weakness for Brandon Sanderson against me.... Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination...

[@Drmanperson]

I thought it would have meta challenges like terraria, where you get do as much as you like, although you’re always working to build up to X so you can do Y. E.g. dig a bit deeper into dangerous territory, go a bit further, find secrets. Terraria still has the ultimate challenge to defeat a few bosses throughout after lots of time in game. They haven’t given you a rundown on their ultimate plans?

[@AdamRoss30]

This game is tempting and I'm scared I'll back it and end up regretting it. I really want to like it. I like the theme, the aesthetics, the mechanics... But I'm afraid that I'll have the same problem as you. I rarely got into the simulation/farming/ect video games until I played Animal Crossing. It kept me entertained until I "beat" it and unlocked the island editor. I slowly stopped playing after that. I still jump on sometimes with my daughter to help her run around and catch butterflies she's already caught or whatever (she's 4 so catching bugs and laying down random paths is her favorite thing right now). I feel like I got my money's worth out of Animal Crossing... but for $140+, do I want that in a board game? Especially learning the cool creature minis are just for display! They are what drew me in when I first saw the initial ads and now I find out they aren't even used in the game... With all the negatives I just listed, most people would say it should be an easy pass for me, but damn, it looks so appealing despite all these negatives that I still might back it.

[@revol40]

You should make a vid about a game you have but you haven't played yet and what you think of it now.

[@BoardGameCo]

You mean just covering games I have that I haven't played?

[@revol40]

@@BoardGameCo You said you have games that you haven't had a chance to play that you have in your collection.

[@kumarsalib722]

This seems like an activity rather than a game. The question then becomes, is the activity fun?

[@BoardGameCo]

Exactly

[@BenjaminH_48]

I've been waiting for a while for this one to go on KS - I love the idea, the innovative approach, asymmetric coop...but I got a bit worried when you mentioned that the level of asymmetry is more like Merchant Cove....that one other game I was intrigued by but ended up not backing it because the asymmetric lil games seemed to simple or not crunchy enough. Also, I wanna like the idea that the game has no end, but part of me knows that it'll be hard to be motivated to play it more than a couple of times if there is no actual big challenges, goals and consequences...even worse if I think about my gaming group. I'll wait a bit and see.

[@chrisroberts8572]

This game seems sort of like the RPG Stonetop that was kickstarted last year

[@BoardGameCo]

Cool, I'll have to look into

[@windyhillbomber]

Appreciate the idea behind this game. But, I am not convinced that the endless sandbox will work as well in a board-game format compared to a computer game.

[@danielveda5870]

How difficult is the game? Could this work as a filler game if you have the same play group everytime? How long are the player rounds?

[@aarondowning5791]

Doesn't the all-in seem vastly overpriced for what you get?

[@BoardGameCo]

I haven't yet looked at the campaign page.

[@anarchist_parable]

I don't play video games or cellphone games. There's no satisfaction there for me. I'm not visually motivated in that way I like thinking and feeling like I'm doing something. The fact that you can manipulate physical items in board games it's what's interesting to me and then the social aspect so this might really be my style. The fact that I can pack it away and save my progress is super attractive and I hope other games pick it up. Great for busy people and, god help us, parents who are just trying to sneak some play in at nap time. I could see this being a satisfying play for me personally.

[@stewartgerkin3405]

I’d say where this would fall short is finding a way to be equal to video games of the same style. If I want to sit down and mindlessly complete task that don’t really matter a video game lets you get started in 30 sec and when your finished hit the power button and your done. A board game on the other hand takes a certain amount of time to set up and put away. Also you don’t really have to remember rules after not visiting the world for 6 months to a year in a video game. Interesting idea but I don’t think this is for me.

[@BenKrefta]

Good point

[@williamblack6912]

Mmmh looks beautiful and is interesting because I've nothing similar. ..maybe I will risk a bug for now.

[@BoardGameCo]

It's 100% different than anything out there. The premise is fascinating.

[@HowardAbraham]

There are no small challenges. There are no little challenges. There are only small little challenges.

[@82ndmi]

it's a cute idea. but it fails to capitalize on what the genre's do well at their core besides the exploration portion. 1. explore - yup check, the deck of cards. 2. creativity - there's no art here, there's no outfit picking or designing your house, there's no white boards to draw on or possibly cubes you could arrange in a tray to make pixel art of an item you want. Art and expression are a huge point of the non combat play loops of these games. 3. there's no combat loop - this isn't in every game, but a lot of games have tough enemies and traditional gameplay loops. MMOs have shown us we don't need endgames, that we can be satisfied with just challenging the next boss, and a series of challenges you can build to and unlock would be just as fine for me if that was the loop. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/j17PgKWOjrZ-j8k) so to me, who has played terraria, and animal crossing and a dozen other games of this genre it's missing the point. You explore to have more items to be creative with, or you explore to find new bosses and items to take them down. You don't normally explore to put up generic buildings, and while I can name a few games like that, they aren't hyper popular.

[@BoardGameCo]

Very well put, I completely agree.

[@CG_Hali]

Sort of weird someone like you who loves very different games is one of the few reviewers. From seeing your top lists, I was surprised to see your channel come up for a review. I think they should have chosen a channel where the audience is more aligned with this type of games. I'm not critizing your review cause you said your genuine thoughts, just not getting why the designers would select you to receive a copy when your channels and subscribers are filled with very different game tastes. Oh well, at least people more inclined to games you like know it probably won't be their cup of tea, and it might have made it clearer to those of us who do enjoy calmer building games that is it more within our tastes. :)

[@BoardGameCo]

What's an example of a game like this I haven't liked? This game is fairly unique....what counts as similar?

[@Anty2004]

Drinking game: Take a shot every time he says, 'building just to build'.

[@kumanight]

Mythwind taught me that I need a purpose or victory condition to enjoy a board game. If you can't win you can't lose and that takes away all tension and meaning for me. Ironically if Mythwind were a video game I'd be more likely to play it

[@tomasxfranco]

I'm betting someone from BGG will create a variant to score your playthrough within the first month.

[@danielmaxson4287]

It's a game I want to be sold on, but I don't think I am from looking at the marketing materials so far. I have played and enjoyed Stardew Valley, although there I'd say the hook is the stories you explore for each character (which are quite good) and the tons of content you discover over your first couple in-game years. But video games and board games are incapable of delivering infinite content. The game medium that is capable is tabletop RPGs. That said, I love the theme. It just feels like the concept is far better suited to a TTRPG like Ryuutama or Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine than it is to a high-production board game.

[@ADungeonDelve]

I can't help but feel that I would reach the same conclusions if I played this. My daughter loves Animal Crossing and would probably like this, but I would never be able to convince her to put Animal Crossing down to play this.

[@ScytheNoire]

I have a hard enough time getting into coop games that have win-lose conditions. A game with no end condition is so unappealing. Hopefully it has some audience beyond the curiosity of it all.

[@morgaknightgames]

Yeah, every video game comparison you listed are the type of games I play obsessively for a week and then never touch again. Interesting concept for sure, but not one for me.

[@matissmatiss3126]

This is brutal, Voidfall, Fractal: Beyond the Void, Mythwind, Renegade games anounced Dice Throne with Marvel heroes.. and at November at some point there should be also Slay the Spire,.. people will get broke with so many amazing games.. 😬

[@andreasoranno]

on the spot. i hoped it was something else. the mechanics of the characters does not appeal me and it seems to have no real progression. If after a certain level I had to change the character mat or something more, maybe - at the moment I do not see it. Or it does not seem to be there yet .

[@BoardGameCo]

The characters do upgrade, but I still don't know how far and to what extent.

[@andreasoranno]

@@BoardGameCo thank you! Perhaps, I was too harsh in my critique... let's see how the campaign evolves.

[@PsychicLord]

Wow Alex, judging from the many of the comments you have influenced prospective punters away from the product. This shows just how 'powerful' you have become over the last few months. Honestly is key to successful reviews, and you were honest and fair based on the fact that your review was based upon a very basic prototype, and you were not aware of the stretch goals etc. I would hope that you will be able to re-review this game again when you have a closer copy to the final game, but in the meantime, sadly many might have been put off.

[@shawns3911]

The subtitles are so bad in this…I think it’s partly how fast Alex talks…but I saw “methane” when I assume it was meant to be Mythwind

[@daodasbrot4817]

I don't care that I can not win, but that I can not lose, that makes it really not interessting. Big time.

[@BoardGameCo]

They go hand in hand :)

[@daodasbrot4817]

@@BoardGameCo Well, maybe, but I think it is something different to go in an endless Dungeon, fighting for ever. But knowing you can not lose, makes it boring direktly. Not being able to win, only over time.

[@RetroMaticGamer]

How do you lose a game you cannot win? Sadly it's very easy. I JUST LOST "THE GAME."

[@BoardGameCo]

If you try hard enough.

[@Tharukan]

I think games like this gotta reward creativity heavily. You gotta be able to set your own goals. Imagine Sims, but you'd not be able to build but just buy houses. Or Minecraft, but with building templates instead of total freedom. Worse games...

[@kevinsayers5985]

Well, this sucks. I was just on Kickstarter contemplating this game as it looks very intriguing but now that I know there's literally no goal, or ending, I have zero interest...😟

[@BoardGameCo]

Ya it's very much targeting a specific kind of player.

[@patriziopastore9895]

I don't want to say sucks but a bit mmmbe... come on I need a reason to take a boardgame on the table...

[@yoonkl8101]

There are challenges and objectives to achieve, which if you fail to fulfill, there are negative outcomes for future progression. I wouldn't say there is no goal.

[@Skorrigan]

Why would I do this? Why would I muddle through this one? If it was 1985 I would maybe go for it. But it's 2022 and there's a whole bunch of better, cheaper, more immersive, and intriguing games than... this thing.

[@Jito463]

Literally every one of those games mentioned, I either have never played or I tried once and never went back. Looks like this game isn't for me.

[@siriactuallysara]

Thank you for the review. This game is creative and fun but not for me

[@markobanjac2068]

Why do you burp so often?

[@buddhawasright]

All the coffee Alex drinks gives him acid reflux.

[@joshmcclure2124]

1st!!! Haha

[@BoardGameCo]

Almost 1st :)

[@joshmcclure2124]

Bummer. Womp womp 😩