Nakamichi Dragon vs ILLEGAL Sonos Arc System

[@MrDexterSr]

I have a similar “illegal” Sonos setup, except with two front Symfonisk bookshelves instead of the extra 300s. I’ve loved them and honestly can’t go back! My advice is that you se the arc TV dialogue sync delay to +2 and lower the “volume limit” of the front stereo speakers until they are balanced with the official arc setup. Makes adjusting the sound much easier 👍🏾

[@neverenoughtech]

Good advice!

[@AnthonyPuca]

When you do this, can you control the volume from TV remote, or do you have to use the Sonos app and adjust the volume as the group?

[@giacintorenta7579]

This way you would not have Atmos at the front, right?

[@RobertofDetroit]

You are a genius and a scholar of the worst kind…which is why you’re one of my FAVORITE KZbinRS!!! I did a similar set up but added in some extra illegal ones Gen 2 for the floor and some in the ceiling. ITS EPIC & GROUNDBREAKING! Those two words are usually associated with practical, affordable and unimaginative endeavors but I think we can make an exception and say that an “illegal” Sonos set up brings the movie theatre to the home. Best wishes~One of your masculine admirers. P.S. Your wife need never get troubled by our close relationship as we are separated by thousands of miles and the fact that background searches to find your address just cost too much these days when one spends so much money on Sonos products

[@neverenoughtech]

My wife is pretty secure … putting ones up high is something I’ll have to try

[@michaelspurling4376]

Good review. I have a Dragon in the living room and a pair of Era 300s in the bedroom for music so I am a fan of both. I can easily imagine that the Sonos system you put together for home theater would sound really good. I won't try it because my heart is still recovering from pulling the trigger on the Dragon purchase but I'm glad to see that someone did.

[@neverenoughtech]

Yes I decided I want to spend as much as Mr Beast does on his videos

[@MAXMUSTERMANN-kg1th]

@@neverenoughtech 🤣🤣🤣

[@giancarlogargiulo5875]

I think with this review I am gonna spend the extra 1000 for the extra pair 300, you really convinced me, thanks for the second review, even more convincing than the first review in July

[@neverenoughtech]

I think it’s a safe-ish bet to buy 300s as I sense they have a dynamic/flexible home theater life ahead

[@giancarlogargiulo5875]

@@neverenoughtechthanks , I got the 2 sub ( gen 3 ) positioned one in front of the other for a matter of space. I could make a sacrifice by moving the other one in front to the left too but I don't know to what extent it's worth it, now one is front right and the other is rear left. do you think with these positions of the 2 subs plus the extra pair of 300s it will make much difference to the sound quality?

[@Stephane.French.Catholic.An.33]

10:08 sound check : Sonos more, depth, spacious, clear and loud ! in Blade Runner, in my system, voices go out the tv center, nakamachi the voices are more localized in my soundbar (Ambeo Plus). Thanks for your video !

[@neverenoughtech]

Interesting to hear - never quite sure how all this renders on listeners various setups

[@ccdccd8615]

As stated in the comment section to previous videos, I have this system with one change. I also added an ISO-Accoustic center channel stand for the Arc (when you are this far down the rabbit hole, why stop???). I did this because another web tuber said it helped with center channel clarity, particularly for conversation. I believe it does help, but the effects are more subtle than dramatic. I LOVE this setup!!!! It is the perfect setup for a 98” TV (Yes, I probably do need help) and my need to go to the movie theatre is nil (not that I have money left for that). Great review and good to know that the money I slipped you to favor the Sonos and feel better about the hole in my pocket was worth it.! lol!

[@neverenoughtech]

98” tv 😮, I’m not even that committed. Respect 🫡

[@ccdccd8615]

@@neverenoughtech Every time you think you are at the end of the rabbit hole, you find it goes just a bit (or a lot deeper)! lol!

[@t1aaj545]

Best channel for soundbar reviews, following for a long time 😃

[@neverenoughtech]

Means a lot!

[@TheHookUp]

I think the possibly genius move by Sonos is allowing the sticker shock and wallet emptying to happen more gradually. Start with an ARC, add a sub, add your first pair of 300s, then another sub, then 2 more 300s. 5x $800 purchases seems less bad than 1x $4000 one. Especially if Sonos were to just release the 300 L/R support as an update, talk about an easy way to get thousands of people to spend an extra $900.

[@neverenoughtech]

I know - they’d make so much money I think. Not sure why they wouldn’t pursue this … and it would put them in a more serious discussion about offering the best sounding consumer electronics audio system. I’m guessing it’s maybe harder than we’re thinking

[@jasonblair4057]

That’s exactly how I have been building my system. Next piece is the 2nd Sub the last piece will be the stereo pair of 300’s.

[@bondaretsig]

I have a similar setup, with a pair of Fives in the front instead. Initially Fives were put there for purely 2ch listening, but I decided to experiment with this “illegal” grouping like a couple of weeks before your original video and was pleasantly surprised. Most of the time Fives are not engaged though (too much is going on and may sound weird), but depending on what I’m watching or listening to, adding Fives can indeed create a much better experience. Main issue to me is that volume control of the grouped setup has to be done via the app (TV remote only controls the Arc), although IKEA Symfonisk sound remote (gen 1 or 2) also works to control the group

[@neverenoughtech]

Yeah too much work to keep active all the time … the fives would sound good too but I went with 300s for the more absurd spatial potential. I have the ikea symfonisks and didn’t know about a remote

[@jollama]

The Sonos setup is impressive if you have the money to somehow get all the pieces together. Nakamichi is easier with its one time purchase for all the components

[@mikebarratt8584]

I’ve done a similar setup with my Sonos, but I have 2 white Sonos play bases either side of the front arc/sub with the era 300’s as the back surrounds. It works well as I have a dual optical output adapter to the connect both play bases to the tv and run it at the same time as having the hdmi arc selected, all outputting to my Samsung QN90B 85”. Just have to have the Samsung TV setting for “always play optical output” selected and had no sound delay issues.

[@neverenoughtech]

This is a setup I have never even come close to imagining … glad when the weird Sonos contingency speaks up

[@06dame27]

I've been playing with my Fives up front after I got the Era 300's. I definitely hear the potential.

[@neverenoughtech]

Appreciate these comments as a check on my sanity 🙂

[@remco3819]

I hope Sonos is working on a “legal” option for the Era 300’s to be positioned this way. Or maybe their rumored set up box will allow that. I agree that a soundbar never gives a spacious effect on it’s own.

[@gerard3797]

Sonos not having two front channel integration including using the soundbar as dedicated centre channel for vocals is a missed opportunity. Probably the integration is just to heavy a burden for their eco system over wifi, but maybe they can integrate something like Wisa technology as a separate communication protocol for dolby atmos in their products in the future. The problem with Wisa is that it still has to many drop outs. Most Sonos customers just don't care. One alternative solution could be to run cables from the soundbar to the main left and right channel, most people wont mind I guess. But still the group wanting this is a minority I guess. Next generation Arc should really fix the dialogue problem, which you can't fix with an EQ boost. My two channel's hifi system phantom centre is miles ahead of the very bad dialogue on the arc. What most people forget is that 80-90% of movies/series is about dialogue and portraying voices adds just as much to the lifelike experience as movie effects.

[@fatredditmod]

Hans Zimmer's Live in Prague concert on blu ray is reference Atmos material. My Dragon makes me feel like a kid again when I turn it on. You should try it out

[@neverenoughtech]

Good ideas, I’ve heard some of that concert. Impressive is an understatement

[@giacintorenta7579]

I think it is a great idea to add another 2 Era 300 at the front. The issue with most Atmos soundbars is that they would normally sit too low, especially in a setup with dedicated rears. Let’s hope they make it official.

[@johnnydo22]

Quick question, I have a pair of 300s on my second system (beam/sub/300s) and I’m willing to unpair, stereo pair the 300s, and group them to my arc/300s/2 subs main system but for the stereo pairs 300s, are the sounds coming out similarly to how the surrounds do (outer sides, inner sides, atmos channel, and center speakers disabled)? It would change how I would position the front 300s dependent on which speakers in the front 300s are being utilized. I also have a stereo paired 5s in the same room, not sure which would be better to use. If the 300s don’t do anything extra with their side speakers to a front, I would imagine 5s as added would give similar sound? Let me know if you get a chance!

[@jeremiekey7379]

I have a similar setup. I ended up going with arc, 2 play 1's up front beside the TV & play 5s as rears slightly above & behind seated head position. And 2 Sonos subs catty corner in the room. Sounds amazing I don't think the 300s would be better then the 5s in my opinion, but 2024 might change my mind depending on what Sonos does with the 300s.

[@kevineina6454]

This channel should have 20 times (if not more) the amount of followers…

[@neverenoughtech]

Taylor swift keeps hogging all the attention. Appreciate the comment!

[@michael-4k4000]

Thank you for your video Sir! I am happy when you release a new video and I know u put a lot of time and effort into these videos!

[@neverenoughtech]

Thanks!

[@maxatv]

I know you've had communication with Nakamichi Leadership, have you heard anything about the next firmware? It's supposed to bring lots of improvements but has been pending for a few months now

[@neverenoughtech]

Nothing beyond what I have discussed in the video

[@bernardmagri6405]

You have the best videos and I love your dry humor. Thanks again for a great video.

[@neverenoughtech]

Appreciate it!

[@giacintorenta7579]

In the “illegal” Sonos setup, would the Era 300 receive Dolby Atmos? Would both the central speaker and the height channels be activated?

[@neverenoughtech]

Yes to both

[@giacintorenta7579]

⁠really tempting but I need to wait for the new Arc and or the new streambox. The front Era 300 in your test reproduce the sound for both front and rear Atmos or just from Atmos? Did you put them on a stand or kept them on top of the Subs? P.s. the TV stand for soundbar is like the one at home and too low in my opinion if sitting a 6-7 feet distance

[@turtleshellrecords4989]

Can you add 2 subs to your stereo pair of Era 300's I would love to see a review of an "Illegal" 4 sub home theater setup from Sonos

[@neverenoughtech]

Just one sadly

[@jhors7777]

Thank you for posting this helpful video. I enjoy and appreciate your channel.

[@neverenoughtech]

Happy to do it - hope it helps!

[@oscardirector2144]

Yesterday I watched the new Beverly Hills cop 4 with two era 300s grouped with my regular arc 5.1 system . It was phenomenal ! I luv this combo because it means I can use the ungrouped 300s . Stereo pair +,for my regular music listening . I’m also feeding in a project cd player ,via the line in usb c , into one of the eras . 👌

[@neverenoughtech]

Glad you’re making it work

[@riley6723]

I like the Sonos naughtiness! Now if you could do a Sony Ht-A9 underground style setup?? Let’s say with a “center”? I’ll allow you to take my non copyrighted label of it being the HT-9.5 👍🏻

[@neverenoughtech]

Worth a think

[@michael-4k4000]

The only way to add a physical center is by using a compatible Sony TV

[@HPMIKE55]

Great job ones again and you’re 100% right! 😎👍 How about the Phantom speakers they’ve just came out with a new. Look into it when you have time. :)

[@neverenoughtech]

If they wanted to send me one I wouldn’t kick it to the curb. I’ll put it on the consideration list

[@rocketman4822]

What about the Sonos amp hooked up to two bookshelve speakers. Maybe it’s a stupid question but curious to know how would it work.

[@neverenoughtech]

Should work

[@Kaniac47]

I have a near-identical setup but with two 100s instead of the two extra 300s, and a beam 2 instead of an arc. Where you recommend turning the volume on the two extra 300s below the rest of the system, in the setup I have I found that turning the volume about 5 notches higher than the rest of the system seems to put out the best sound since the 100s are less powerful speakers. Anything much higher, I start to hear echoey redundancy, and anything much lower gets overpowered by the rest of the speakers.

[@neverenoughtech]

I think the calculation is different with the three hundred. But glad to hear other people think this hack is worthwhile. Makes me feel more sane

[@Kaniac47]

@@neverenoughtech absolutely as the 300s pack a lot more punch than the 100s.

[@giacintorenta7579]

Thank you for this video - looking forward to how Sonos evolves in 2024. A couple of question if I may: 1) which TV are you using for the test? I have a Samsung Q90T and I feel the audio passthrough to Sonos is not clean; 2) are you using TV apps for test or Apple TV 4K or Blue Ray 4k?; 3) finally, what those lights next to your TV? Philips Hue? Thanks

[@neverenoughtech]

I almost always use a LG projector and I always plug directly into the bar bypassing the TV. I just don’t have the bandwidth to get into all the TV peculiarities. I have not an an issue with pass through … I test with both Apple TV and BR - BR definitely sounds more impressive and every new movie I buy I make sure to get BRs. The lights in the basement are all Govee (muuuch cheaper) I go with Hue in my main living spaces because I can control more at one time and they have switches

[@giacintorenta7579]

Thank you very much for your reply. For Sonos Arc, how do you achieve plugging directly into the bar? Do you use something like an HDFury Arcana or VRRoom? Thank you again

[@dougbarasch9342]

Hi Daniel. Love your channel and videos. Question for you. In setting up the "illegal" Sonos Arc system, did you actually place the 300s on top of the subs in the front? Just curious.

[@neverenoughtech]

I did … it’s a fallen world world

[@thomasc.1283]

I recently got the dragon and have been testing it with several movies… One thing I’ve noticed is that while the soundbar has great overall sound, there’s a weakness in the front left and front right channels. It seems like the sound is coming only from the front speaker, and I’m just not able to hear the sound coming from the left or right. This diminishes the surround sound effect compared to traditional methods. Now I’m wondering if I could add front left and right speakers, it would make it a perfect solution…

[@Steve30x]

I think all soundbar makers should offer the option (as in you aren't forced to buy the front speakers) to add two wireless front speakers along with the wireless rears. I agree you can't match having proper front left and right desperation with a pair of front speakers compared to a soundbar with two side firing speakers. Having a pair of speakers in front as wide apart as possible have better left and right separation compared to a soundbar with a pair of side firing speakers I have a 5.1 system and I heard my brother in law's Samsung q990b and I could tell all the front sounds were coming from one area. I have nothing against soundbars. I have a poll audio react with rear speakers. But a soundbar will never match front separation properly without the ability to add a pair of small front left and right speakers.

[@hulkhogan9450]

So I have Arc, sub gen 3 and 2 x rear Era 300’s. My question is, I want to add front Left & Right next to the Arc either another set of Era 300 but thinking of Era 100 as they will only be stereo and the 300’s won’t get full use or work with atmos. How will this all sound or has anyone mixed a set of Era 100’s as fronts with an Arc/Sub/Era 300’s and how does it sound? Another set of 300’s up front seems like a waste?

[@jeremiekey7379]

I have experimented with play 5s upfront and I really enjoyed it. I would go that route over the 300s

[@ItalianMike30]

How do you like the Govee floor lamps . I was thinking about getting those.

[@neverenoughtech]

They’re nice - have to assemble them but provide a nice glow or color splash against the wall or color gradient. Can use my affiliate link if you want … amzn.to/47WgHSM

[@brianbanda2975]

That illegal Sonos setup is overkill

[@neverenoughtech]

Sometimes … not always and you know it when you bring in the front stereo and the sound get more WOW. But I agree don’t go out and buy from scratch

[@jesseproett3168]

Sonos making an upgraded arc. I would think a new arc with 4 300s and 2 subs would be the optimal max setup still if they went with the added front channels. Just repurpose the arc for a center channel.

[@neverenoughtech]

Sonos 2024 Rumors - Don't Skip This! kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3TRimOYfLWjeJo

[@AdmiringBarnOwl-ox3my]

Nice review keep up the good work

[@thadragon31]

I just pre ordered the ultimate immersive arc ultra with extra Sub4 (2 sub 4 total). Will this illegal set up work with new updated app? Planning to do the same set up like yours🤟

[@RJArrayCPA]

What would you recommend for live sports, sports radio (90% of use) with occasional music, movies (10% at best of use)? With live sports, I don't think spatial separation and 360 immersion/surround capabilities will benefit much. I just need enough power, like an "all stereo" function to be able to hear throughout the whole open concept house. I lean towards the Dragon, but this Sonos, and the new Sony Quad are definitely considerations. Curious on your opinion...

[@neverenoughtech]

A powered speaker stereo pair. SVS prime wireless pro would be a classy choice

[@williamobrien6936]

Cool! Many newer TV's have USB ports that support Bluetooth transmitter dongles, including the 2 channel types. If it works with your TV, then you can broadcast to a soundbar and a Bluetooth speaker simultaneously over Bluetooth. Music can sound more immersive if the sound is also played at low volume from the listeners feet area in parallel to the main sound system.

[@neverenoughtech]

Not something I thought of … so thanks!

[@mrgold3591]

I'm assuming the front speakers of the Era 300s are not disabled in stereo pair form? Do you think those extra front speakers is making a more noticeable overall contribution compared to using the 300s in rear surround duties? I have an Arc, dual subs, and Fives as rears. I would purchase the Era 300 in a minute if Sonos would update the software to add them to the theater group WITH the front facing speakers active.

[@neverenoughtech]

No they are not disabled and they also play atmos when grouped

[@hulkhogan9450]

Another question, if era 300s are grouped and paired to a tgeatgre group of era 300’s in the rear, will all 4 x era 300’s play atmos at same time and also the front stereo pair also have the front drivers working? I know the rear 300 front drivers are disabled in theatre mode? Thanks

[@dsdddsd4543we]

I have a Sonos Arc and it has been incredible. Once I work on my second business, I will try adding more to it. Lol

[@neverenoughtech]

I’m sure you can manifest it

[@Stephane.French.Catholic.An.33]

an awesome setup Sonos like that will have a sound very impressive, clear and loud !

[@giancarlogargiulo5875]

It would be interesting to know if your "illegal" system source is a Blu-ray video player or film by streaming?

[@michaelsabin5767]

I really hope they release a 3.1 version of the Amp this year and let me use my 3.1 wired speakers with two 300s as surround speakers.

[@michael-4k4000]

Dan, what are your thoughts on Dolby Flex? This could really change the way we listen to music and movies. The flexibility that Dolby Flex allows is amazing and makes it easy for non home theater people to get great Atmos sound.

[@neverenoughtech]

I’m excited for it … I hope there are some solid applications soon that I can comment on

[@S1mmz]

You need to test one of the Sennheiser bars next with duel third party subwoofers, something like the SVS SB3000 pro just to show how poor the subs actually are on Sonos and the Dragon ;)

[@neverenoughtech]

Happy to do it WHEN THEY GET AROUND TO GETTING SOME SURROUNDS. It’s like they’re not even listening to me

[@S1mmz]

​@@neverenoughtech They're on their radar apparently. They mentioned it in the chat window at CES 2024 during their headphones launch. Hopefully we will see them at some stage this year :)

[@neverenoughtech]

I didn’t know that they mentioned it but I was expecting them this year. Appreciate the tip

[@jakeresch264]

Okay, due to a great sale via the upgrade program at Sonos I purchased my third and fourth Era 300s to complete your unorthodox Sonos setup. My question is this, should I use the additional pair of Era 300s for a separate room until Sonos supports your proposed set up or try your arrangement now? How likely is it that Sonos' new "product" line would accommodate your proposed configuration?

[@neverenoughtech]

I would suggest trying them in both circumstances … I suspect a scenario with 4 era300s working together will happen. In part due to the new suspected hardware and pressure from dolby atmos flex connect. I dont know if its happening this year but its certainly the direction

[@johnshepherd2666]

I am now happy with my 20 odd Sonos speakers....looking fwd. to the ...new ARC ..& maybe Era 500's ?

[@giancarlogargiulo5875]

Since you did an experiment and we can definitely say that it was an unexpected success, do you think we could add 4 ceiling speakers plus 2 Sonos side speakers for a complete system without reverb, given that the reverb was the least of the problems? it would be a super super illegal system. What do you think ?

[@neverenoughtech]

I think it can totally absorb 2 height speakers (to start) … just haven’t gotten around to doing that yet. There are delay settings you can play with but if that doesn’t completely fix it keep relative volume levels appropriate

[@glenngratz4077]

Welp, I like the upgrade-ability of the Sonos, so I started my Sonos collection since over a week ago. Got both the Arc and Sub gen 3 for about $1300 together due to some sales. But I am wondering if there will be upgraded speakers coming out this year. I eventually want to create a home theater in a man case. As well, wife wants to setup Karoke to have fun with her friends..

[@neverenoughtech]

If there are updated speakers it would be the Arc and maybe bass - the Era 100/300 surrounds were released last year. I’m not too clear on the best setups for Karaoke. I think a mono or stereo setup would be best for that

[@glenngratz4077]

@neverenoughtech Ahhhh ... well what about wall mounted speakers? It will be a while before I have enough to get my home theater going.

[@MAXMUSTERMANN-kg1th]

Because of your video I wanted to buy 2 more Era 300s and include them at the front too. Now I'm waiting to see if there will be a new ARC. If this sounds better, or like the Sennheiser Ambeo Plus, I don't need an additional ERA 300, if not, I'll just buy 2 more for the front. Installing your video about 4 Era 300 in a system, like this video here, was again very interesting. I'm actually not allowed to watch your videos, they cost me a lot of money. My current system ARC. Sub Gen 3. 2x Era 300 Thanks for this video.👍👍

[@neverenoughtech]

Yeah get the impression Sonos releases will impact a lot of buying decisions this year. I like the Ambeo plus - kind of a sleeper. Give it some surrounds

[@giancarlogargiulo5875]

@@neverenoughtech I would be curious to know the source of the videos. blu ray or video streaming?? Sonos advertises wireless base plus TV streaming. It is also true that collectors buy a good quality Blu-ray player

[@jackbusiness7879]

Thinking out loud but if Sonos supported it, would two arcs and 2 era 300 with a gen 3 create a better atmos experience? Front and rear arcs, with 300s in the middle

[@jhon61690]

My room size is 10x12 foot so there’s limited space. Will 4 x era 300 setup deliver enough thump for the size of this room? Front L + R and two on the rears? Or do I need to buy the arc and sub as well?

[@esafesa]

Do you think the sonos setup beats the Sony A9? And one more question, do you think the Era 100 is enough to use as back-speakers? That the "illegal" setup is as you have it, but the back ones are 100 instead of 300 :) Thanks :)

[@AnthonyPuca]

I have the Arc, Sub, and 2 Play-5s for rears in a "Great Room" as our home theater. Could I use the 5s for the front stereo pair and get a pair of Eras for the rear? Or, would it be better to have the Eras in the front and keep the 5s in the back. I have 35' from Arc to rears, 17' ceiling peak, and lots of hard surfaces, so it is not your typical room. What would you recommend for this setup? I have pairs of 1s or 5s I use in other rooms I could experiment with also. Looking forward to trying this and adding another sub.

[@neverenoughtech]

If you’re planning on getting both the fives and 300s I would just experiment … in the end it’s hard for me to predict individual taste along with a uniquely shaped room … for a more spatial experience stick with 300 for a more high fidelity vibe stick with 5s. I personally would keep the 300s in the back so that there is a strong spatial element and the 500s up front to fortify the arc and widen the soundstage … the arc and fives will create generous amount of spatial effects in front

[@timhamock2996]

​@neverenoughtech do you get rear sounds coming from the front when it's grouped? Or does the 5's or 300's that are grouped with the ARC just heighten the front sound stage? Would be a little annoying and confusing to hear rear sounds coming from the front

[@Turambar11]

Why don’t you have 100K subs? This is soundbar porn if there ever was one

[@neverenoughtech]

I try to keep this channel as exclusive as I can manage. Done a pretty good job so far. Appreciate the comment!

[@garretts431]

so let me get his straight... the dragon has: - no wifi connection (why?) - no calibration method other than manually adjusting (even receivers offer a calibration method....) - subwoofer rolls off at 32hz (lmao) - manual updates via USB (arcane method of updating) - a really lame 1yr warranty (no confidence in their product) - BUT at least it has fidelity and can get loud...(woohoo) yeah i'll pass.

[@neverenoughtech]

Some people think the last one is particularly important in an audio device … but yeah - it’s not for everyone.

[@garretts431]

@@neverenoughtech thanks for the smart ass response. Predictable cheap humor as per usual. All the bar has is fidelity for $4k. They cant even get the subwoofers right. fidelity is important, but it shouldn’t be the only good thing about the bar. Too many negatives that outweigh the only pro - fidelity.

[@venkatbabu]

Hello Daniel - Can you share the Optimal Sonos app settings for this setup (Including grouping)? Thanks

[@neverenoughtech]

I don’t think it will help because it depends on space and taste. I typically don’t feel the need to mess with treble or bass and I keep the woofers around default. I suggest mess with it until you are max happy

[@kevineina6454]

Hi, sorry for the question I am somewhat new to this and I have tried to find a solution to my situation and I believe you are the only one who could propose something that might work. I have a Xgimi Horizont pro (4k it has eArc) and I would love to get a sonos set up with it. I just got one era 300 to give it a try… and playing with it I found out that Atmos does not transmit through Airplay 2… which is very inconvenient since my plan was getting an Apple TV 4K, connected to the projector and airplay2 the sound to a Sonos set up… but (as it seems) I will not send atmos, so no spatial sound effect whatsoever 😔. Basically I ask for advice, my preference is projector and wireless set up, since due to work I move once a year/or two… Sony ht a9 connected to the projector through eArc would do the trick I guess but I am open to your advice since you are the one I trust the most in this topic! 🙂 Thank you for your time I know I wrote to much!

[@neverenoughtech]

I think the HTA9 would work well with your setup. There are hints that Sonos will offer ways of getting atmos sound to speakers without requiring a soundbar but that is not a certainty … so if urgent, go HTA9 - but if willing to wait you may have more options that would include your 300 though if that opened up you would probably want to buy at least one more

[@kevineina6454]

@@neverenoughtech hi thanks a lot! Yeah my idea was buying a second one as soon as I was satisfied with it, and it sounds amazing for music… but as mentioned, I couldn’t really test it properly for cinema experience. I can definitely wait a month or two and then I will have to decide one way or the other😅. I will write my results on your channel! Thanks a lot for helping!

[@T-300ZX]

What is the diaglogue clarity like on low volumes? Night time viewing.

[@neverenoughtech]

At low volume I believe clarity to be fine… using dialogue mode and or upping center channel would resolve any remaining concern

[@memphus]

Sonos will get a lot of additional money from me if they allow me to add Fives/300s as my front L/R

[@memphus]

I have an Arc and 3 Beams. I would likely add front L/R to all of them

[@504cool]

That’d be my last bit of Sonos Tax. I’d certainly buy another pair of Era 300’s if this was “sanctioned” lol.

[@neverenoughtech]

I keep telling Sonos how to make money. They should listen. I’m not sure what their pairing limitations are like how many components their chips and network can fuse but I hope they have been working on expanding it

[@seanaugustus7340]

Completely agree guys, like yall my sonos tax is done until they sanction the L&R optional addition

[@MrFaleh1129]

i dont know now what to get after this review lol, never had an audio gear always listened from built in tv , i have a closed living room that is outside the house that i wanted to install the dragons in but now im just lost which should i get ? I think for convience it would have to be a dragon less gear to deal with , but i want the best even if it is a bit of a hussle the only time i didnt settle for a tradiotional AVR system is cause aesthitics and cant install in wall speakers

[@davidartlife6675]

Hi from France Daniel, Thank you for this high quality content. I am writing to you because I need you to help me with a question. I have a pair of KEF LS 50 Wireless 2 as +1 KEF KF92 subwoofer. I wanted to buy 2 other small kef wireless (for the rear voices) and thus have a home cinema. Unfortunately I couldn't find an AVP that could send me the signal wirelessly to the speakers. Before the KEF I bought an AMBEO MAX which I returned because I was disappointed with the lack of "depth" of the sound. To this day, I tell myself that the DRAGON could be the solution. 1) Is there a soundbar that can be at the level of my KEF in stereo? If yes which one? If not, it might be wise to keep the KEFs and buy a SONY HT-A9 pack for the home cinema? 2) If I understood correctly, the ideal home cinema would be: 5 x SONOS ERA 300 + 1 SONOS subwoofer? If so, we would have to wait for SONOS to market it Is there a SONOS AVP that will allow you to build it? Thank you for reading me and we look forward to seeing you in your future videos? David "translated with Google translate"

[@neverenoughtech]

I would caution you that if you were not pleased with the Ambeo max - that there is probably not a soundbar you would consider sufficient. The closest to the Kef effect you were going for is probably the Sony A9 with SW5 - though I could see you criticizing the depth of this speakers. If you have to go wireless A9 otherwise a traditional HT setup my be best for you

[@cichlidfeak]

This is a great idea , sonos shoud defently add this into a future update so you can use front wides . Or Even extra front height if you wanted too. The fureture of wirelees home cinema !

[@neverenoughtech]

I think the greatest friction is bandwidth - they’ll get it worked out

[@timhamock2996]

My question is if you put 5's or any other speakers in front does it downmix the audio? I heard if you group a pair of non atmos speakers you lose atmos all together is this true? What about if you use all 4 300's id imagine atmos is retained?

[@neverenoughtech]

Both the front and pair and arc pairing say atmos in the app in the now playing screen

[@om13d]

Just added ERA 100 surrounds to my Arc+300s+SubSub setup. Really loving the results. What are you views on splitting the subs between the two systems?

[@neverenoughtech]

I kind of think you want to load as much as you can on one system to make one system significantly more dominant and making the other system easier to meld with the bigger … I don’t think you want to harmonize both speakers and subs

[@om13d]

Just ordered some more ERA 300s. Time to slay some dragons

[@eliomarnahr201]

There isn’t a way to have 6 300 working like a 7.1.4 (Front Side Rear surrounds), is it? Thank you for the great work

[@neverenoughtech]

At this time you could have as many era 300s grouped as you want with a front pair hosting sound via BT/AP/wired input - but all the speakers would play the exact same audio not specialization which would sound goofy for sure and no telling about the sound sync in this case

[@yonkocommander5531]

If Sonos makes this (or something similar) official this year, I’m 100% setting it up and never going to a movie theater again

[@neverenoughtech]

It seems like there will be a market with Atmos connect comming into play meant to assist with creating flexible wireless speaker pairings - a group up to x speakers how you want for home theater capability would be a major win

[@darrubs]

Thanks Daneil for the great videos. I actually went out and bought this exact setup for 2 separate rooms after I saw your first video 😮 I’m just curious, how come you haven’t tried adding 1 or 2 sonos subwoofers to the front era 300’s? You could have system with 4 Sonos subs 😮😮

[@neverenoughtech]

I suppose I was a bit worried about the subs syncing and my imagination just doesn’t live up to my viewers - two rooms! EPIC

[@darrubs]

If anyone has tried more than 2 subs… let me know what you think!

[@michael-4k4000]

Is the Samsung HW-Q930C only sold at Best Buy? I was able to order a Samsung HW-Q990C for $1,129 from Samsung. That’s a good deal right?

[@mrkhadi1]

You already purchased it and if it can't be returned now, just enjoy it. Don't look at the prices. Some were able to get it for much lower.

[@neverenoughtech]

In the US it’s a fairly good price. In Europe and India - you can get it much cheaper it seems

[@michael-4k4000]

@@mrkhadi1 I just ordered it, the order has not shipped. Either way I have 30 days once I receive it. I never heard of the Q930c, its not even on Samsungs website in the US

[@mrkhadi1]

The q930c is not sold on the Samsung website (always shows out of stock). You can get to the q930c product page by searching Google for the q930c.

[@michael-4k4000]

@@neverenoughtechwas able to get the Q990c for $767 (with tax) from Samsung direct.

[@MrDexterSr]

I like these videos before even watching them 😂

[@prtbone78]

Was thinking of tradinf in a sub for 2 era 300s i already have arc 2 sub gen 3s and a pair era 100😊s as surround

[@adrianrodrigues1988]

Thanks for another great video. Since i was already on the edge on ordering another Era 300s pair to my Kitchen i guess i will also jump into the dark & ilegal side of the sound 😅. When playing Atmos music (sonos app) or streaming Atmos movies do you get atmos on all 4 Era's? Hope Sonos hear us up 🙌

[@neverenoughtech]

Yes actually, both pairings show as playing atmos. Good question

[@hulkhogan9450]

Just asked this question, maybe a video could be done on this topic showing atmos on all 4 x era 300’s

[@Bork0r]

I love the experimentation. Haters will hate

[@neverenoughtech]

It’s what haters do

[@bgaviator]

The problem I have with Sonos is their lack of inputs compared to Nak. Not all of us have eARC capable TVs.

[@neverenoughtech]

Yup that’s a bummer limitation and also partially why they can be relatively user friendly (reduced complexity)

[@timhamock2996]

HDFury Arcana is your answer to that issue

[@giancarlogargiulo5875]

Do you think this “illegal” system can be compared to a real 7.1 or 9.1 system? Do you think it is superior, inferior or equivalent to 2? Obviously with the same budget.

[@andrewjeffery4279]

Great Review. Is anyone able to provide recommendations for adjusting the sound settings? I have the Sonos Arc, Era 300s as surrounds, and Era 100s for the fronts. Thanks

[@neverenoughtech]

This is going to be deeply unsatisfying but since you are the only one in your space I would trueplay the two pairings and then adjust to taste. Play with the height to get the intensity you want. See what bass treble mix kind of site with you best throughout different types of content … get the rears sounding equally loud.

[@andrewjeffery4279]

Thank for the reply and that makes total sense to me. @@neverenoughtech

[@columcreaven8860]

I love your reviews, you are thinking outside the boxes🎉, in the real world and excluding the dragon, would you prefer the Sony or standard sonos system?

[@neverenoughtech]

Sonos with 300 … but close. I largely prefer the A9 sound but I fear because it’s a self-contained one off - if one speaker breaks the whole thing goes down and the rest of the speakers become far less valuable. I see Sonos as being much more robust and flexible

[@columcreaven8860]

@@neverenoughtech I am about to pull the trigger on a system and I have a Sony TV, you make a very valid point if a speaker breaks down the whole system is compromised, I do like the modular approach of sonos but probably beyond my current budget, I might settle for a Samsung q990c instead....

[@nakamuraamon3154]

I had 2 system in my room one is sonos arc with sub gen 3 and pair of era 300s and a pair of triangle comete 40th with kc62 sub as for music the comete w/sub wins hands down for details and sounstage...but for movies sonos does a good job as they had surrounds backing up the overall....i do find the arc is weaker than the era 300s as like the 300s are overpowering the front....i also thinking that if only can use another pair of era 300s for left and right and the centre channel using the arc that maybe it will enhance the sound quality further......anyways my gf heard 3 of my system she still prefer the system in the living room 7.1.4 she told me a soundbar is a soundbar can't replicate those separates with bigger drivers

[@neverenoughtech]

I have commented that the 300s upend the front back hierarchy in numerous videos and the 300s are looking for a worthy soundbar

[@nakamuraamon3154]

@@neverenoughtech the arc 2 is releasing this year so dunno what it will bring to the table.......

[@KevinAroni-uz5rl]

Q990d vs all this 3700$? Vs dragon 4000$?

[@weakpig]

Will the illegal Sonos setup work similarly if instead of getting Era300 for the surrounds, I purchase Era 100 x 4 instead? I saw your other video that mentioned the 300s rear surrounds Era 300 has more presence than the Arc and the 100s are better for surrounds. (This video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqTFk62VotOLepYsi=eJtE8F570NFswKGn) Would like your opinion on this Thank you

[@neverenoughtech]

It would be different - but would still sound pretty nifty.

[@Ryeguy5]

I’d love to set that Sonos system up in my home theatre. It just must happen. Thanks 👍🇨🇦

[@neverenoughtech]

😎💪 let it be so

[@johncastorina8310]

Come on, Sonos! Add this configuration to the app natively! I will immediately run out and buy 4 Era 300's and another Sub.

[@neverenoughtech]

I think you’re not alone

[@Darkk_Sage]

When you say small, do you mean inaudible? I think those two scenes you pointed out are so difficult to hear. Mumblespeak, even on decent systems.

[@neverenoughtech]

They are not meant to be heard that well … it’s a jumble of advertisements being spoken from all around the city as the main character walks … may make more sense with headphones in case you weren’t wearing them

[@Darkk_Sage]

@@neverenoughtech oh, I apologize. I meant the scene in Dune with the dialogue at breakfast as well as the Blade Runner boiling pot scene and the dialogue that follows.

[@bartekgsh]

I have a set for watching movies and listening to music: Sonos Arc + 2 Sonos Fives + 2 x SUB, and additionally, in front, on the sides of the SONOS Arc, I have 2 x Yamaha HS8 controlled by Sonos Port. The two systems playing simultaneously sound fantastic! As NeverEnoughTech says, you need to set the stereo system slightly quieter to avoid echo. I want to add an additional subwoofer to the Yamaha HS8S soon to get extra deep bass. The two Sonos subs are set on the sides of the couch, while I'll place the Yamaha sub in front near the TV.

[@theMatch111]

it's amazing what has to be done to be equal to the Nakamichi Dragon

[@neverenoughtech]

I think the fight will be inclusion of additional front speakers. Yes fighting on size and heft is probably not the right way to go

[@eXoticon]

I love how ridiculous that Sonos setup is.

[@neverenoughtech]

This is the most appropriate comment I’ve gotten so far

[@dop5]

If i pay so much money, i do not like to adjust some delays... it has to work☝🏻 Still love my Ambeo Max + Teufel T8 (25m² room) Greetings from Southern Germany.

[@neverenoughtech]

Right - I never said buy this thing. Test it out if you have the components by other means - for fun

[@AR-uy8yr]

ideal setup will be 4 era 300 and beam as centre

[@davidbuccino9162]

Sonos tech support struggles with 4 power cables. They would immediately hang up if you even mentioned 7 cables.

[@neverenoughtech]

Yes short circuiting computers and early retirements

[@pdmark311]

I would build this with Play:5 ocer the Era 300

[@PositiveFlowVibes]

I'm still messing woth this setup. I posted this in the sonos Reddit thread and it was like throwing a steak to wolves. In one way shape or form I got called an idiot lol

[@neverenoughtech]

I’ve seen my video described somewhat rudely on various forms - I’m fine with that. I was insulted that they did not watch my initial video first and see that I already predicted all their criticisms - claiming that I was unaware of what I was doing. Many seem to like the setup or something similar - if you don’t you don’t

[@PositiveFlowVibes]

@@neverenoughtech I appreciate you pushing boundaries of the setup. At some point Sonos will listen. Then you can go back to all those forums and whatnot and say I told you so lol I do have a question and I've seen it pop up a couple times on your videos about this setup. How do you get the voices to not sound like reverb or echoing?

[@rafars2246]

Can't tell me you're not curious about an illegal q990c with that extra 12" subwoofer you have

[@neverenoughtech]

Is there a way to do this without ripping up two subs?

[@rafars2246]

@@neverenoughtech only need to remove the screws in the q990c subwoofer and easily tap with speaker wire. Pretty easy as long as you have the stuff. Here is a demonstration of it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJ2Uloanp511j7c Results are presumably awesome, allowing you to control both subs from the app. You could also just use the q900c subwoofer board and forget about the Samsung subwoofer all together and use a different sub or two different subs.

[@RichSDet]

Seems logical

[@neverenoughtech]

Forwarded to my wife (as proof)

[@xguy9999]

My illegal sonos setup is Arc + Sub gen 2 + 2 era 300s + 2 Sonos ones. 🤩

[@neverenoughtech]

Yeah that’s a totally legit alternative

[@xguy9999]

@@neverenoughtech it works well. I have the ones on the side of me, it definitely boost the clarity of speech on the shows I watch. But it’s really great on atmos films. It was great before, but with the addition of the Sonos ones, it really feels like I’m at a movie theater now. Great video.

[@hulkhogan9450]

Where have you the Sonos ones placed and why is it better on atmos when atmos comes from the 300’s only? Are you getting any sound delay on the ones as a seperate group?

[@xguy9999]

@@hulkhogan9450 in my living room setup I have the ones in the middle of my setup, one on each side of me at ear level when I’m seated. The ones act like additional surrounds when I’m watching atmos movies. the sound stage is even more richer. I don’t hear any delays.

[@xguy9999]

@@hulkhogan9450 just saw this comment 😂. No current delays with the setup. The ones just give my setup a more immersive experience. The ones adds to the center channel when speech is involved and the surrounds when speech isn’t the main factor. It’s still amazing.

[@hanamakoji]

I'm a new subscriber & i really enjoying you're reviews! I just can't wait for the next one & keep it coming!!! Review suggestion & Request, PLEASE! PLEASE DO IT! YOOOH CAN DOOH ET! DO IT! DO IT! DO IT: 🤣😂🤣😅 KEF LS50 Wireless II Wireless Speaker System & KEF KC92 Force Cancelling Subwoofer as a combo for a Home Theater System? PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!

[@sprroach44]

I'm sure Sonos is very good, but I'm sorry it's ugly to me. The look of a setup is essential to me, so if I had the money I'm choosing the Dragon.

[@neverenoughtech]

For every one of these comments I get just as passionate a speech about how looks don’t matter. I do agree the E300s at least take up some space and have a polarizing shape. The Sonos design in particular the Arc is obviously more feminine or spouse friendly. The Dragon looks kind of cool but it looks like alien ships … the unfriendly kind which may be hard to get sign off on if there are strong opinions about home decor. Also, Sonos is built better.

[@sprroach44]

That's what I like about the Dragon, the sci-fi look of it fits in well with my esthetic.

[@markfulger4643]

I’ll stick with Samsung Q series…you always say they are great for the price. Lord knows we can’t all fork out that kind of money for the incremental listening experience.

[@neverenoughtech]

Great for the price - in particular after the price reduction