NAS Storage, QTS Tier Storage vs. QuTS (ZFS) Caching. Choosing a NAS Part 2

[@mario-762]

Thanks for the great videos. A lot to learn and very helpful!

[@PatrickDKing]

Loving this series so far. Thanks for putting it together.

[@CR3DT]

This is the best series I have watched in a while. I can not thank you enough for sharing this wealth of information for those who are not IT professionals, or training in this professionally.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

glad I could help

[@CR3DT]

@@MediamanStudioServices What happens if the main SSD volume dies, can I just buy new drives and re-install QUTS etc and have my data on the large drives be intact?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

@@CR3DT well the SSD's are set up as a RAID 5 and you can loose 1 disk. But you can replace all the SSDs at any time by us deactivating the QTier and migrating the SSD data back to the SATA disks. Then add more SSDs and then activate QTier again

[@CR3DT]

@@MediamanStudioServices I am sorry to pick your brain, where does the OS gets installed? on the SSD array right?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

@@CR3DT that is a good question, I dont know. But I have removed the QTier and pulled the ssd drives before, so maybe the OS got moved to the SATA drives. So it was not an issue

[@nickcucchiara]

Thank for this series as I'm in need of a large archive and video editing as photography can burn up storage swiftly. Even better if I can give a client access to their files for digital delivery that would be Godlike workflow.

[@InvisageStudios]

This is incredible! So much information in an easy to understand format. Thank you!

[@MediamanStudioServices]

thanks for watching

[@InvisageStudios]

@@MediamanStudioServices Hey! Great to see a reply - I was worried that maybe something had happened to you. This series was fantastic! I watched all 3 and realised - I totally set my TVS-1282T3 up wrong haha. Keen to learn more about QNAP setups from you as we're about to get more users on our NAS and keen to get more performance out of it for video editing. Thank you for your hard work making these videos.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

@@InvisageStudios I hope to do more content soon. I relocated to Vancouver and that has put the breaks on making content. But I have a new studio set up and just need to get more equipment. But thanks for watching

[@rontronnesjr]

I look forward to seeing more of your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am purchasing a QNAP TVS-H874 and their expansion unit the TL-1600s to be used as a dedicated PLEX server ( I know, I know, it's REALLY OVERKILL but I want simplicity and room for LOTS of expansion and I don't know much about computers to build a whole thing myself). I currently have a synology DS1019+ with the DX517 expansion loaded with 14tb drives and I'm about out of storage space. I refuse to delete anything. I'm wondering what OS to choose because I'm not going to fill the units with 20 drives right away, only 11 to start, and run it in raid 6. I heard that the ZFS you cannot just keep adding drives to the same pool? With my synology I could just add a drive and presto is there and available, easy peasy. Thank you and like I said before I look forward to watching more of your videos.

[@mikescott4008]

Certainly very interesting and I've been struggling between QTS and QuTS. I have Plex data (4K films) and then general files like docs, photos and so. I'm running QuTS atm, but TBH looking at moving to QTS and expanding the number of drives to be used to 6x in a RAID setup the final two drives maybe 2 x SSD. I have NVMe x 2, SSD x 2 and then a mixture of 4 x drives and 2 x drives. TS-873A. I also nearly sent it back for a Synology

[@mikescott4008]

Thank you for informative video, currently trying to decided if to go QTS or QuTS on the TS-873A I've recently purchased. SMB and iSCSI storage, iSCSI for vMware. Disk options. 4 x WD Red 4TB, 2 x WD Red 1TB nvme, 2 x 12TB Dell (PowerEdge SATA), 2 x 1.6TB Dell PowerEdge SATA and 3 x WD 3TB Red the disk options I'm looking at. The 3TB will prob stay on my shelf.

[@07Review]

Amazing video, thanks, in my case I use my nas for save and stream videos the best high-quality possible, from the nas to any device. Using personal videos and Plex what is the best one for you, I have the Quts hero but after watching your video I am thinking to move to Qts, do you think I can improve the streaming quality overall of the video? Like better bandwidth? Thanks again

[@MediamanStudioServices]

the NAS in either QTS or QuTS would work well as if this is just for streaming videos and media playback, the NAS will work fine. I would say stick to QuTS and ZFS for the better file system it offers. I use QTS for the high bandwidth required for video editing at 4K.

[@07Review]

@Mediaman Studio Services thank you very much 😊 GOD BLESS!!!

[@ilovepancake3518]

Great video as always

[@MediamanStudioServices]

thanks for watching

[@jasonhoffmann76]

Thank you very much for your great work. I just purchased the QNAP TVS-h1288x and am literally staring at the screen wondering what file system to use. I can connect either by 10gb ethernet or thundbolt 3 into my macstudio. I have a large plex library as well. What kind of speed differences were you getting bertween QTS and QuTS?

[@mikebrown9826]

It all depends on your disk and how you config them. For Plex and media library, I would use the QuTS and zfs as this have the best redundancy for data protection. QTS is great for video editing and that type of workload. ZFS is better for data storage regardless of the lower performance. And it's only about 15-20%

[@jasonhoffmann76]

@@mikebrown9826 I'm a video editor so I'm torn...

[@constantinosschinas4503]

@@mikebrown9826 So if you have a PCI 4.0 Nvme with ie. 6K read, it will become 5K at worst. That is a miniscule difference, if you take into account the dangers (no backup of tiered data, unless you sacrifice nvme storage) or flaws (data becomes fragmented for no reason in HDD storage). You can fit two 8K RAW streams in 5K/s, same in 6K. Or 50+ Pro Res 422 streams. Sacrificing IO for 15% of sequential speed (plus all the issues) does not seem like a good idea.

[@omaraj178]

I purchased a QNAP TS-H973AX32AX and a Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB. I can’t find a single video on KZbin on how to change this component. I am new to NAS. If you could help with this I would greatly appreciate it. Your videos are very helpful and comprehensive. Thank you in advance

[@RiccardoRomanoVMO]

hey man, what do you mean? The Samsung you purchased I think is a "normal" M.2 NVME stick. The NAS you purchased (it's the same I'm waiting for arriving) does not directly support this kind of drive. It's supporting the U.2 NVME drives that are different and that are normally used in the data center environment. You need an adaptor to use the M.2 in this NAS. You can find it in the qnap store. Cheers.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

hi Omar, I will be doing a video on this in the next few weeks as the H973A does have two NvME slots but they are internal and you need to take the case off to access the drive slots.

[@07Review]

Hi.... I just returned my Synology ds1621xs+ due to lack of 4k streaming videos remotely, lol I'm not using my nas for anything else than my 5 family members uploading 4k videos almost everyday, and I want the best I can have and also future proof, I heard the qnap tsv-h8812x is so far de best desk nas for that, now do think the new Qnap Tvs-h674-i5-32g-us can do the same when you compare the specifications of both, I just pre-ordered it at B&H. Thanks for your thoughts in this.

[@crayproductions1]

If you use tier Storage for your video production, do you have to move the footage from the slower drives to the faster drives yourself or is QNAP do it for you automaticlly?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

hi crayproductions1, it moves automatically by data usage. It keeps your last used data in the fast tier as long as you have activated that folder to use Qtier

[@joetroiani1781]

Hi. So I moved from Synology to the QNAP TVS-1288x. I STRICTLY use this for plex. Other than security and malware apps, the only app I will install is PLEX or Emby. I am trying to decide is it worth buying and building the M2 and the SSD drives? I have not setup up the storage pool yet. Have 8 12tb WD reds. But I wasn’t going to use SSDs until I watched your video. And if I start with 2 SSDs, and create my initial pool with 2 SSDs and 8HDDs, can I add more SSDs later? Also is M.2 caching worth purchasing as well? Oh also, seeing as all my data will be backed up on a Synology (have an 8 bay Synology with exact same data I am putting on new QNAP) is it worth doing raid 5 or 6. I was leaning 5 because I have the Synology as a back up. And last is “snapshot and pool over provisioning”. Using both uses up a lot of storage. Is it worth using if I have that Synology raid 5 backing up this QNAP raid (x)? Using QuTS hero ZFS.

[@mikebrown9826]

Hi Joe. Thanks for watching, first off...... Ah, the 1288x is a little over kill for a Plex server Nas. But ok. As for NVmE. You will not need this at all. Your streaming media files and a read/write cache will not help here. As for SSD. Well that depends on how many users will be streaming off the Nas at one time. If it's more than three, I would get the SSD and set this up with zfs and not qtier. Your will get better performance for multi users. Slower over bandwidth, but more streams off the Nas. Good luck with your set up. Post how it turns out

[@YonnBurgos]

@@mikebrown9826 Mike, if you don't mind me asking... will you need to setup System Pool and Cache with NVme for catch when using it for video editing?

[@YonnBurgos]

Great question!! Your question made me have a question for the way I would like to use it.

[@joetroiani1781]

Ya it is overkill. But I do have a bunch of friend on plex that we share with each other. I was concerned about HEVC and 4K transcode. Which brings me to last question. Best GPU for video streaming for the 1288x. Thanks.

[@mikebrown9826]

@@YonnBurgos you could. Cache is used to help manage the write data sent to the SSD and HDD storage pools. It is also used to house data that is frequently used and accessed by many users. But if your files exceed the capacity of the cache drives. Then your streaming data to the storage pools anyways. Cache is only as good as the amount of data and capacity of this cache

[@YonnBurgos]

thanks for the video, very informative!

[@mikebrown9826]

Thanks for watching

[@mjscpr]

That was super helpful.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

glad I could help

[@constantinosschinas4503]

If a NAS fails (psu, cpu, motherboard, anything) what happes to the data? How do we recover A. fast, to continue working or B. Any kind of recovery. That is the most important question that we have.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

you can just move the disks to a new QNP nas and import the drives. but you should always have a back up of any data you feel is important. One device is never enough

[@tallevi2000]

When setting up the regular tiering system (on the QTS os), is it possible to have each tier a raid5 on its own? So, 4 HDDs in a raid5 + 3 SSDs in a raid5 + 2 NVMEs in raid0. All of them in the same tiered pool. Is it possible?

[@OVERKILL_PINBALL]

Great video... just one issue, it took 9 minutes to get to the begininng of the answer of the video title. You may want to reconsider the order in which you present information so that people don't have to wait 9 minutes into a video if all they came for was that specific info. Keep up the great work!

[@MediamanStudioServices]

thanks for the advice. I know some people want to get just to the end of the information, but their is also some people that want the entire background as to why things work the way they do. But that is the great thing about video, just skip forward to the information you are looking for. But I will look at the format of my videos and see if I can condense the format somewhat

[@OVERKILL_PINBALL]

@@MediamanStudioServices Remember, I didn't suggest to remove any information, just to consider the arrangement/sequence ;)

[@MediamanStudioServices]

@@OVERKILL_PINBALL Ok, I will take a look at the format on my next video

[@kshitiz0000]

Its a shame you are not making more videos :(

[@XtianApi]

My requirements involve not experiencing bitrot. So, zfs

[@itwins3517]

Question: In a 4xhdd RAID5 + 1 NVMe non-RAID QTier setup, if the NVMe died, all data in the NVMe will be gone. If so, in other words SSD caching is safer while QTier caching is not. Am I right?

[@mikebrown9826]

Yes you are correct. But why would you only use one NVmE drive as a tier, you should use a raid for each tier in the Qtier set up

[@itwins3517]

@@mikebrown9826 Thanks. I understand the reason for not using RAID1 for QTier and especially write caching now. A month ago I bought a Qnap TS-h973ax and experimented and benchmarked caching and I really love it. Nothing special with read caching but write caching is amazing especially on a 10gbe network. I can't wait to try out 25gbe network but I will need to pray to the Lottery God first :P

[@J-Train_Fit-Travl_Juice-Tender]

The idea of not being able to add to the raid or storage pool . . confuses me as I am new to Nas, and configuring Raid, Storage Pools, and Volumes. So if I wanted to expand or add cabaciity and or a different drive or type of drive, does that mean it has to be set up in the original set up of the NAS? I also read where some drives like sas and sata cant be raided together? Is that true? Didnt realize there was so much planning in a NAS set up. Can someone clarify how to avoid set up pitfalls?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

so with some QNAP NAS devices, you can add drives to the RAID set and add raid sets to the storage pool. I will be making a video to show that. But it is a simple process. And no you can not RAID SAS and SATA in the same RAID set. but you can create a SAS RAID set and a SATA RAID set and combine them into one Storage pool.

[@djphotography8532]

In raid 6 if a tiered storage drive goes out, what happens with that data?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

what do you mean by "goes out" RAID 6 will allow two drive failures. So you replace the drives before a total failure. As will all RAID configs, if there is a total failure, you will loose the data.

[@legendhasit2568]

Please could you be more active in your discord forum? Would be really great to connect with you, love you videos 👍

[@MediamanStudioServices]

Sorry, I have been away for a long time. I will try to connect on Discord more. Thanks For watching

[@IstiakAhmed_UE5_VR-Dev]

Will u upload Unreal Engine shader video with different ryzen cpu/threadripper Like blender 4 3090 video

[@MediamanStudioServices]

I have not look at Unreal yet, but when I di I will make a video

[@loganpenciu7317]

Hi sir! Can I use NVlink with an EVGA Ultra RTX 3090 open air style card & a NVDIA Founders edition RTX 3090 blower style card?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

It is recommend that you yes the same GPU when using Nvlink, but you can use different brands/Styles of GPU as long as they are the same model (3090). I would look out to make sure the Nvlink ports line up for the bridge to fit correctly.

[@loganpenciu7317]

@@MediamanStudioServices Thank you very much for your insight! Much appreciated!

[@J-Train_Fit-Travl_Juice-Tender]

I suppose my question would be when setting up and hoping not to waste drive space and function. Would the following exist for QuTS hero or QTS? . . . I was looking for more videos or anecdotal stories of trial and error pitfalls that people found to be best practices in situations where they wasted drive space for the raid/pool storage/ or value . . . or had to move data then delete it(and re setting up nas pools/volumes), by looking back after they set up when learning and gaining experience with missteps/underestimating storage setups. I was hoping the creator . .or anyone scanning video/this thread might chime if they see this thread.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

Hi J-Train & Fit Travel; Juice Bartending, that is a good question. Only time and trials tell of the best way to approach a solutions. Maybe someone on this thread can chime in and share their experiences.

[@constantinosschinas4503]

Tiered storage sounds like a mediocre idea tbh. How much is the sequential speed difference anyway if NVme is used as cache? Data fragments easy too. Are we sure there is no option "Keep folder in cache" in ZFS systems? That would solve any speed issue.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

cache runs out and using more drive space. Tiering is not for everyone, but if used correctly, it can be a god send

[@constantinosschinas4503]

@@MediamanStudioServices How cache runs out and Tier does not? Both would be ie. 2X 4TB PCI 4.0 NVme. You may mean that Tiered data are not replaced by more frequently used data automatically. On the other hand, that is more logical. I understand that with Tier you do earn the disk space, but you lose the data protection. I can't really see any benefits. If you like to quickly provide a very specific usage scenario in which Tiering is in any way better than Cache, i would be happy to follow. Only restriction would be that we have the same amount of fast drives in both cases, in example 2x4TB Nvme.

[@DJaquithFL]

*ZFS .. bit rot.* Maybe you need two separate NAS devices, one for Scratch/Workflow and a second for Archive. This is the situation that I'm kicking around right now even for my home. With two grandkids and everyone shooting in 4K non-stop OMG I'm looking quickly for solutions. Personally I'm thinking about two 2TB M.2 for cache in RAID 1 using ZFS with storage in RAID 6 maybe RAID 10 still up in the air about that one. I can foresee where multiple computers are going to be editing the same set of files often. However, there's no damn way I'm not using ZFS with mechanical hard drives. I've even debated about buying QNAPs SSD only enclosure then sure I'll look at other file systems. To me, these are 5-year disposable toss in the garbage solutions. Everything important is being uploaded to my office NAS and further duplicated on third party cloud storage (final edits, photos, etc).

[@DJaquithFL]

.. I don't give ___s about not having the storage capacity of a few SSDs or m.2s. ZERO infact .. once you've lost data and bit rot you'll think of it differently guaranteed. Those I can see the top of the JPEG or Tiff or whatever but not the bottom with its stripes or you name the data corruption. That's what's got me all over ZFS on mechanicals. HDDs lie.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

why would you not use SATA HD with ZFS. there is a million deployments worldwide with spinning disk in ZFS file systems. you can turn on RAID scrubbing and set it to once a month to sort out any BIT ROT issues.

[@DJaquithFL]

@@MediamanStudioServices .. I've lost data and had corrupted (bit rotted) pictures and videos in the past. The *M.2 cache vs SSD Tier* should at best be negligible if not the cache being faster. Might make for an interesting video. I like the redundancy factor of RAID-6 with a hot swap in place. Unlike an office or someone can put an extra drive in a bay if I'm out of town or for that matter the country I'm covered. And yes we have cloud storage.

[@MediamanStudioServices]

@@DJaquithFL So for my test of Cache vs Tier, the performance was about 25% slower on the QuTS hero cache versus the QTier. and you have no control with caching but full control over folder structure and what data is Tiered. Don't get me wrong. I like ZFS, but for video editing and my workflow, the Tiered was way better with the TVS-h1288x NAS

[@WillChi23]

Did you ever do part 3 of this video?

[@MediamanStudioServices]

hi William Delgado, I am currently editing the video for part 3, it should be released next week

[@WillChi23]

@@MediamanStudioServices Sounds great. I just ordered the same NAS (tvs-h1288x) so looking forward to it.

[@ChessBonte]

Also waiting for this 😇. Just got my new Qnap ts-h973ax-32g in the mail this week :)

[@MediamanStudioServices]

@@ChessBonte Just posted part 3 of the QNAP video's. have a look on the channel

Reading their fud about btrfs makes me wonder what they are doing.

[@LokiDaFerret]

How do I know if I like and subscribe to your channel that you are going to take that money and reinvest it in more videos? Maybe you're going to go out and buy a yacht. 😁 I think some kickbacks are in order. 😊

[@rubberjohnny5]

NASty

[@MediamanStudioServices]

nasty fast. I get over 1gigabyte per second transfer speeds over 10G network thanks for watching