NASA Engineer Discusses the Future of Flying Vehicles with Neil deGrasse Tyson & Wendy Okolo, PhD.

How would it be different flying on Mars? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Matt Kirshen explore aeronautics, aerodynamics, airplanes and more with NASA aerospace engineer and author Wendy Okolo, PhD.
What does the first A in NASA stand for? What does it mean to be an engineer? Wendy breaks down how engineers think and what her role at NASA is. Discover how systems of systems surround our lives. What are the main challenges of moving through the air? We discuss aerodynamics, what flying on Mars would be like, and the impact of climate change on aeronautics.
Why don’t we fly commercial planes higher? What is a blended wing aircraft? We explore optimization, propulsion, how to achieve aircraft stability, and Wendy’s book Learn to Fly: On Becoming a Rocket Scientist.
Could you one day get a license for flying like you do for driving? What is the future of flying cars? Could we one day have self-driving space vehicles? We also discuss autonomy in flight and the safety concerns of handing over aircraft to artificial intelligence. Are computers safer than humans?
Thanks to our Patrons David Hemsath, Becky Basmadijian, Etopirynka aka. Kate, Jaime Parker, Liuba Tereshko, Jeremy Seeman, and Carol Flynn for supporting us this week.
NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free.
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Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!
#StarTalk #NeildeGrasseTyson
00:00 - Introduction: Aeronautics
3:54 - Intelligent Systems Division
5:38 - System of Systems & Engineering
8:45 - What is the Challenge Moving Through Air?
13:30 - The Impact of Climate on Aeronautics
16:40 - Why Don’t We Fly Higher?
21:28 - Aircraft Wing Variations
27:39 - Learn to Fly: On Becoming a Rocket Scientist
31:45 - The Era of Flying Cars
36:19 - Self Driving Aircraft & Artificial Intelligence
38:00 - Do We Need Human Pilots

[@StarTalk]

Would you prefer a flying car over a driving one? 🤔

[@franciscomendoza1168]

If it would avoid any kind of traffic jam and get me from home to work and viceversa in time, bring them on!!! 😼😼😹😹😹🙏🏼🤞🏼

[@zayx08]

teleportation would be better

[@MadDragon75]

Fly! Edit: This has been a detailed discussion. To be a flying car, it has to have wheels and can actually be driven and flown.

[@TrevorJacksonTV]

Great Question, I would have to experience it before I made a decision.

[@mattdougherty3322]

Cost being the same, and being able to land where (or near) I want to be, I would go with the Pontiac Flierbird.

[@alkimball8920]

My 92 year old father was a Physicist. I once asked him why there were no flying cars. He said “There could be flying cars, but cars make lousy airplanes and airplanes make lousy cars.”

[@claudiosalib774]

This is an amazing answer. I doubt as to whether Neil Degrasse Tyson would have come to this startling conclusion. ☝️🙄

[@leeannaasland6569]

It will never happen due to air-space being the government's territory and noise pollution. Imagine if everyone had a plane inside of their garage and or multiple planes in one singular family. So a family of 5 EVENTUALLY would turn into 5 planes in the air going to 5 different places, EVENTUALLY. Broaden that to a city block and you literally have humans looking like flies in the air potential scenarios we haven't faced such as common plane crashes, potential pollution, ectt ectt

[@UhMuse]

@@leeannaasland6569Alef Model A, was just approved by the FAA and is planned to start production Q3 2025, electric flying car.

[@michaelbraum77]

Love it!!!!

[@anthonysavio3875]

Wendy Okolo the first black/African to hold a PHD in aerospace engineering. She must be a great inspiration to many brilliant young African girls out there not only in her native Nigeria but Africa at large.

[@howtokdj1498]

What's sad is, literally no one really knows her here in Nigeria. She's just an amazing anomaly, unatainable for even above-average Nigerian scholars without 'move-abroad' money.

[@erikhendrickson59]

​​@@howtokdj1498Yes that's one of the sad realities of our society. One has to wonder how many great intellects have been lost to humanity, simply because they were born in the wrong place at the wrong time

[@bolanoluwa6686]

Sorry to bust your bubble she is not the first. There are loads of Nigerians and Black African Americans that hold PhDs in Aerospace/Space Engineering in the USA, Africa and all over the world. We can still be proud of her accomplishments. Especially that she wrote a book.

[@TheOldHippiebilly]

What a delightful guest! She was able to explain things in ways that were clear to me-- and I am very ignorant about aeronautics. More of her, please! ❤

[@xxpgh412xx]

Hey there I’m officially an astrophysicist myself as I just graduated from school here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. I have an interview with NASA next week I am very excited and proud to take the first steps to the stars ✨

[@blackhat856]

Zero point energy Nicola Tesla, Dr Greer …don’t believe the institutions

[@zerospacebannana2669]

Ill be going to pitt for aerospace engineering and would love to work for nasa. I will use you as an inspiration so thankyou.

[@xxpgh412xx]

@@zerospacebannana2669 absolutely. Proud to be an inspiration whenever I can be. I am in the beginning of a life changing career and I couldn't be more thankful. It's people like you who are my inspiration to do this work.

[@ThizzRyuko]

Dr.Wendy Okolo is the guest we need, she knows how to push through the interruptions and give us the answers. ❤ Silenter 😂

[@trevorjones5066]

And she's hot lol

[@alexanderblack389]

You know she African with that last name.

[@ThizzRyuko]

@@alexanderblack389 and?

[@IGBO---ETHNO---NATIONALIST1]

​@@alexanderblack389 So what's the point?

[@alexanderblack389]

@@IGBO---ETHNO---NATIONALIST1 the point is she’s a jollof rice lover.

[@davidlarson8258]

Agree we need part 2. Wendy is amazing as an engineer and as a guest/ interviewee. Her husband’s a great engineer as well! Had the pleasure of meeting both of them at NASA Langley. Keep up the great work.

[@kevinkkirimii]

Well done Wendy

[@ThinWaistedPrimaDonna]

Dr. Wendy Okolo was a perfect guest. ❤❤❤

[@TheHamNinja]

Loved this one Neil. Great guest speaker Wendy.

[@bellomuhammed4047]

The explanation to robustness is my take in this conversation❤

[@onlocationkat]

That Dr. Okolo is one smart and charming guest!

[@mickeybrumfield764]

I'm impressed by the guests that Star Talk is able to find. A good video to have Matt back for.😊

[@EchosJourneys]

Another brilliant episode!!! Thank you all so much!

[@arthurfoyt6727]

It's basically what I learned on my own by building model airplanes at age 10. This is so low level as to be laughable. Wings are different? wow?

[@topspacesource]

Great and educational show. Wendy did a great job explaining Aeronautics more in depth.

[@miixfixxgarage]

I've been waiting for this conversation ever since 1991 when Back to the Future II was premiered on the silver screen!!

[@miixfixxgarage]

​@@rickcartagena8410😂😂 Love it!!

[@TheSearchPodcast]

YES!!!!

[@waiters483]

This definitely needs a part 2!!! I feel like there was a lot talked about but a whole lot not talked about!!!

[@kimorayn1733]

I see you Star Talk, putting the pretty science lady in the thumbnail... But the ratio things in different atmospheres is neat. It reminds me of Gliders and how they use the rules of arodynamics TO FLY without an engine, they just have different goals than airplanes.

[@smabbacares599]

Very proud to hear that you are a Nigerian. Keep making Nigerians proud Wendy.

[@zeedaniels1459]

Why does it matter what country she is from?

[@smabbacares599]

@@zeedaniels1459 Yes it matters. if you do not like it, go to court.

[@onlocationkat]

My late Father, a WW2 veteran who passed in 2009, once commented on flying cars, as there were some movies about that, like Back to the Future. As an army air corps radio man in the Pacific, his comment in the 80s about flying cars was that, the problem is user error, and flying is way different than driving, and also you would not only have a car crash, it also would fall out of the sky. Instant death in a flying car accident.'

[@BadEinsteinReal]

By the time flying cars are actually viable, AI will fly us everywhere! Hopefully safely… but by then we may be living in the Matrix.

[@HanTheProphet]

​@@BadEinsteinReal i haven't finished the video but i think flying cars will never be mainstream unfortunately, same way helicopters arent. it isnt only cost that is prohibitive but noise and infrastructure

[@martink8080]

@@HanTheProphet and while a plane at many 1000+ ft might be tolerable, I'm not sure having cars at a few 100 ft over the house or backyard is something many would find pleasant. Plus the privacy issues.

[@gabzpot]

Part 2, please!!

[@trabon88]

Wendy is amazing, we need more of her!!!

[@EZ3offroad]

Wendy did such a great job! What wonderful insight.

[@oldcowbb]

part 2 pleeeease, love her already, i'm biased because i also have control background

[@mocafrost]

Love the guest and so proud of her.

[@dainperrault585]

Ready for part 2

[@leemartin1417]

I'm watching some fusion breakthroughs. The hype is building around it. Fusion is fascinating and could be here before we know. Please cover more about it!

[@adicus75]

first off, thank you Wendy for the insight! love to see experience translated in a way that's approachable🎉 secondly, where's Chuck? new guy is fine, but Chuck's the man 😎

[@SheSweetLikSugarNSavage]

The Q & A was awesome.👍

[@peaceforchildren4303]

Brilliant video! Thankyou

[@martypiraino8721]

When they discussed airplanes at high altitudes it reminded me of coffin corner in aviation, basically the point at which the aircraft will stall when high enough and fast enough the pressure over and under the wing becomes equal, that can cause a stall

[@denademal]

Chat about the aerogel flight and energy applications would be amazing!

[@RJOVenturesInc]

Great show ✈️ 👍

[@missh1774]

Very cool. Thanks StarTalk!

[@forthehomies7043]

I love watching and listening to intelligent guests

[@neptune7836]

useful info ❤❤❤

[@Abs0lutZr0]

This was absolutely awesome!!!!

[@gwensimmons_gigi1629]

Great session, thank you all! 💞💞💜💜🎇🎇

[@whoshotdk]

If you like this topic, build some planes in KSP for an hour. You’ll soon learn more about aerodynamics than you ever wanted to know.

[@SockMonkeyofcourse]

Many canard-equipped aircraft have computer-controlled dynamic canards to prevent and control the flexing and resulting shutter inherent in some fuselages at high speeds

[@bhuuthesecond]

Dr. Wendy is super funny and such a vibe 💙🌻

[@MoeFokah]

Great guests.

[@Vitearys]

I loved her! Please bring her back for another video

[@mtadder]

Awesome show as usual! 🌃 You should have on Isaac Arthur as a guest! That would be amazing!

[@FacesintheStone]

My first mistake in college was picking aeronautical engineering as a major. I made it two years! 😅 I don’t like school, but I like learning ❤ check out the rocks in your creeks, you’re going to notice that they are all shaped like birds and faces 🗿👍🤯

[@BadEinsteinReal]

HUH?

[@arthurfoyt6727]

Put down the drugs, son.

[@dhjengr8756]

😂 Huh!

[@user-tl9ks6zv9h]

I know all those words but the combination is confusing

[@kincamell]

Gratitude

[@duanemorgan8065]

Part 2!!!!

[@BadEinsteinReal]

I could have sworn that silenter was not a real word… but you are correct again, Neil!

[@sonofatlas1372]

I loved this video

[@kristine0420]

This was awesome ✨ 😎

[@ekisauruslux6795]

NEIL! DEGRASSE! TYSON! keep up the good work you absolute legend!

[@mcnm]

Where’s Chuck????

[@The-binge_710]

😁 I respect you and love the content 💚

[@ericturnbull6030]

I totally skipped the aeronautics part and went to space when I asked my question. You hit that on the head.

[@anthonyshiels9273]

I found Matt's CD on Amazon. Ordered.

[@dmd7472]

She is charm personified

[@StoreRunDotCom]

Neil funny you say that your cohost is a comedic fellow specializing in science.. IDK if you are aware but you are his counterpart in physics.. HIGHLY entertaining. LOVE YA BROTHER

[@0x0michael]

never tought i'd see a nigerian here, she's amazing

[@GuyTheAnimated]

I'm very curious about Antimatter/matter propulsion and what the possibilities are.

[@chickenstripz5537]

Neil i love you bro

[@derda2481]

In your video about the equinox you said you will make a video on the winter solstice but you never did. Can you make one now it’s the perfect time for it.

[@PosDad]

What a fun group

[@gregduncan3713]

Would someone point out the difference in operation and use between model aviation and Drones to the FAA.

[@EmpyreanLightASMR]

I like that Wendy was diplomatic about the scenario between human pilots and autopilots. Sorry Neil, but we have examples of computers being suicidal. Look up the Boeing 737 MAX disasters (which no one went to prison for). Ok, now go back and look at Sully Sullenberger or the "Gimli Glider" and ask yourself who you'd want flying that plane.

[@morbidmanmusic]

Given the right systems, I'd take AI any day.

[@octaviodominguez7772]

@@morbidmanmusicif you work with machines and robots every day you would know how wrong you are you always need someone there sure eventually ai will work better but not right now

[@Gwyn23]

Not every pilot is Sully, not every driver is Mario Andretti. AI will become exponentially better with time, humans will not

[@davidlarson8258]

There’s a sliding scale of the tasks to automate and those which you leave with the human. As AI improves it will be able to do more and more, but it isn’t there yet. Years ago we designed the navigator out of the plane, then the flight engineer, perhaps next it’s the co-Pilot ( first officer ). Automation should be able to lower the training requirements while increasing safety in the future.

[@guillermonassercibils6538]

It was about time we got shcooled on aeronitics!!! ❤

[@arthurfoyt6727]

No, planes fly in greatly changing temps, pressures, and environment son every flight. The idea that less than 1 degree change will affect aviation is laughable on it's face.

[@Norestfortheinfernal]

Neal really is a world class educator

[@BiGprOtein65g]

His question

[@youngblack253]

I wonder if resonance can be used to allow aircraft’s to slip through the atmosphere with less resistance that can change on the fly using ai sensors that relay to a switchboard that controls the frequencies. If that were possible space travel may change forever especially if we can create a perfected and sleeker version of the Endeavor.

[@kameronpayne9291]

I love her ❤

[@TorQueMoD]

Awesome video! Matt was really enjoyable and Wendy is my new crush. Smart, gorgeous, and nerdy is my favorite combination :)

[@waynewright5023]

Articulate. Beautiful. Intelligent. Bring her back--PLEASE!!! 👏👏👏👏👏

[@shmootube5000]

this was way more interesting than talking about flying cars, i always know the video is going to be more interesting than the title of a star talk video

[@keithbell9348]

Loved this topic and the guests!

[@claudiosalib774]

Neil Degrasse Tyson is usually in his comfort zone where he flaunts his resolute knowledge and unquestionable facts he proclaims, which are always accurate and correct. However, unless I am mistaken, Neil Degrasse Tyson in this presentation tries to show academic superiority by attempting to outdo and trip the engineer, Wendy Okolo. I do not know as to what areas at NASA or extent Wendy Okolo deals with in her organisation but if she isn't already, should be the spokesperson and face of NASA for its public relations to the general public at large. She is highly intelligent and quite pretty. ☝️🙄

[@amc8437]

The TensorFlow Library can help with the wing and airplane optimization. I bet it's already being used.

[@theyayachacha]

Brilliant girl!!

[@muneebsial1626]

Where is Chuck?

[@AV8R_Surge]

@15:09 good point on increased storm activity and storm avoidance, dr. This would also reduce the number of good-weather flyable days; and could raise the requirements for a basic pilots license by requiring Instrument Fligt Rules (IFR) certification. And also Moisture in the air creates icing situations, which builds the need for de-icing equipment, which may force retiring older and affordable aircraft, and raise the cost of new aircraft. And Global warming should also affect Density Altitude (thiner air) which increases the rolling distance for take-off and stopping; and may reduce your ceiling.

[@arthurfoyt6727]

Except THERE ARE NO increased storm events. Data is that storms are normal in size and number per the history. Quick note: We had a higher than average temperature in the gulf this year and ZERO HURRICANES. Their basic premises is as simplistic as it is wrong.

[@AV8R_Surge]

@@arthurfoyt6727 what do you account the rising number of tornados in NJ to?

[@arthurfoyt6727]

​@@AV8R_Surge You hold a conclusion and are fishing for supportive data. That's not how science operates. "By denying scientific principles, one can maintain any paradox" -Galileo.

[@AV8R_Surge]

​​​​@@arthurfoyt6727yet the scientist in this video are mentioning the global warming phenomena, and here you are denying it. Follow your own advice please. And furthermore my post was referring to the affects of moisture in the air and how it affects flight, and the challenges for pilots flying in less than fair weather. Yet you decided it was an opportunity to troll a stranger on line.

[@Gadman0110]

My fellow Nigerian sister❤👍

[@Jerwin-zp6ch]

Sir Neil, I have a silly question. Why clouds not falling?😅 Subscriber from the philippine 😊

[@ThinWaistedPrimaDonna]

UTA Alumni in the house💙💙💙💙💙

[@Joshua-by4qv]

What a great guest. Smart and accomplished but modest and fun also.

[@jhosttinramos5305]

Hey Neil I would like to know what are your thoughts on the information that Terrance Howard keep discussing

[@ms.bertieweikert8808]

Ingenuity helicopter works on Mars. On the moon what becomes the alternative for quicker assistance discovery. From another perspective is it a better form of PERSEVERANCE ?. On the moon a similar vehicle would be RESILIENCE. Resilience is like perseverance. What is the better design for the Moon?

[@jwiderstra]

I love this girl

[@Goodjobeveryone]

YOU STUD!!!

[@user-lh3xm1hf9n]

Hello Sir

[@trugulldekass5479]

Where's Chuck?

[@dylanbrown7664]

Yes, rocket science… it is rocket science folks 😂

[@augieley1015]

I want to sign up and become a patron but how?

[@user-lh3xm1hf9n]

I'm From Pakistan I Love Astro Physics So Sir Neil Tyson! What I Do Please Tell Me I Have Some Theory About Black hole And Worm Hole And Light @StarTalk

[@FireyFly]

About the "systems of systems" as a programmer, there is a very good reason the skill for this or rather the job requirement is called "Software architect".

[@anthonyshiels9273]

I have just ordered "Learn to Fly".

[@user-mb9dg1xq2k]

Yeah that was good

[@k001daddy]

So as far as flying in one direction being longer than the other, could the rotation of the planet have a measurable impact, same as it does to rockets?

[@Sammasambuddha]

Sure. It affects footballs.

[@arthurfoyt6727]

Winds.

[@mohammadrezarezaei2230]

It's MohammadReza from Iran, I have an idea to go inside the event horizon and come back. Imagine two black holes in sufficient distance from one another. (No intersection between event horizons) And a strong and long rope that acts like an elevator. If we have two cabins that ascend and descend towards their respective black hole, assuming they have similar mass and acceleration, they can descend into the event horizons and come back together. In theory, is there anything that stops this from happening? (I know the cable should be very very strong and long) but is there any "theoretical" limit for that experiment?

[@gregoryfife4708]

I had some ideas about flying cars. I think the best people to ask are crop dusters pilots.

[@grejen711]

airline pilots are systems managers. They don't do much of the actual handling of the aircraft controls but they completely control what the aircraft is doing.

[@stephenjames5745]

Where is Chuck??

[@scimarctv10]

I have idea .