Nassir Ghaemi: Manic-Depressive Illness- controversies

[@AhmedElaghoury79]

No words to describe how Dr. Ghaemi is very intellectual and critical thinker, that we should learn his way. Thanks for this amazing lecture

[@kennyt7780]

Not really. I was a patient of his for 6 years. He was argumentative, arrogant & put me on antipsychotic meds that left me with tardive. dyskinesia . Never checked for any movement disorder issues & only had me get Lithium labs 2 or 3 times in 6 years! I get labs every 6 months with my current Dr. He is great at self promotion but that’s about it

[@aghoury]

@@kennyt7780 I am sorry about your experience. I pray for your wellness and health. All love and respect for you from Egypt

[@jothishkjpsy5986]

@@kennyt7780 agreed he is one of the person who promote overdiagnosis of bipolar disorder... By reading his unscientific views on bipolar disorder and other mental illness, i am 100 sure that he will labelled lot of normal one as abnormal

[@adhdfalseepidemic]

Dr. Ghaemi is one of most authoritative voices in the field of psychiatry. His knowledge of psychopharmalogy, differential diagnosis, statistics, history of psychiatry, philosophy and medicine in general is at a genius level. He has many books that are a treat to the intellect.

[@Cita31253]

Manuel Mota-Castillo but what has he contributed in relieving the suffering?

[@adhdfalseepidemic]

​@@Cita31253 Professor Ghaemi has contributed to alleviate the suffering of psychiatric patients in multiple ways: by providing Second Opinions to patients that come to him from all areas of the country and abroad, by helping physicians to stay up to day with new developments in the field of psychiatry, by openly fighting those within the psychiatric establishment that want to keep old practices that are deleterious to patients and their families...do I need to continue? We are talking about a giant of science that has devoted his life and incomparable talent to improve the care of psychiatric patients.

[@yadar1]

🙏

[@SuperGuanine]

@@Cita31253 What are you trying to say? Please be open enough to be truthful instead of hiding behind your screen.

[@Cita31253]

@@SuperGuanine i am not hiding!!

[@MichaelBLive]

44 minutes in. That's the gold. Every doc needs to hear this.

[@kydoctorsforlife8728]

Nassir Ghaemi and Patrick McKeon lectures are very interesting on bipolar.

[@saalllmmmmaaaa]

agreed! ive watched all of their lectures and ive probably done 25+ hours of research on bipolar illness. its so interesting and fascinating

[@jothishkjpsy5986]

Both are promoting overdiagnosis of bipolar disorder, and labelled normality into disorder

[@poochini7272]

U are right on, Dr. Ghaemi You are the only Clinician I listen to consistently on Bipolar. Those of us who have lived with this thing since childhood can safely say you are right on the money. Ty for caring. We appreciate u!

[@naga4660]

This guy is spot on! i hope he gets his papers published

[@replaceablehead]

My wife has bipolar and was cutting constantly during mixed episodes. After four years of this we decided to take adopt the theory that some of the agitation was akathisia and ceased the lurasidone, the self harm ceased completely along with most of the agitation. She still experiences mixed features, but it is now obvious that she had severe akathisia for several years.

[@Jervisdude]

Akathisia is awful and atypical antipsychotics often cause it. No wonder a lot of people don’t take their meds. So many drugs caused me to experience the affect that I ran out of drugs to try. Finally I responded very well to Divalproex even though I wasn’t diagnosed with bipolar. I didn’t have mania. I had bouts of severe depression following akathisia which leads me to believe that akathisia was my form of mania. Couldn’t get any psychiatrists to agree. Anyway with the agitation gone the depression left.

[@replaceablehead]

@@Jervisdude The DSM does a rather poor job of describing mania, particularly in the way it over emphasises the need for euphoria to be present. Oddly it seems the ancient Greeks had a better handle on it, just listen to Aretaeus of Cappadocia, "The modes of mania are infinite in species, but one alone in genus."

[@Jervisdude]

@@replaceablehead yeah. I think there is an over emphasis on diagnosis rather than treating symptoms. Some of the best uses of medication are off label uses. Depakote is used successfully for mere anxiety when everything else fails on occasion. And it’s better if you can treat anxiety with Depakote rather than benzos.

[@vademecor]

There is an over emphasis in diagnosing within the scientifically invalid categories of the DSM, unfortunately. That is the way American psychiatrists are being indoctrinated in their formation. Depression with mixed features, seen more like a mixed episodes and included in the manic depressive spectrum (instead of bipolar disorder) is a much more useful label, since it can lead you to avoid using antidepressanrs and go straight to mood stabilizers, in this case valproate in the long run or quetiapine and lurasidone in the acute phase. Antipsychotics as maintenance treatment have really faulty data, since they are all industry sponsored and enriched studies.

[@willowmorst8861]

He takes it on, the DSDM folks must get flustered; keep up this good work.

[@salvation9868]

I admire him for that, Willow.

[@Cita31253]

Everyone acts as if they are brilliant rebels when they buck the DSxyx. Empty

[@barryfether1547]

@@salvation9868 .mmmnomlķ

[@kennyt7780]

That might be admirable, but Ghaemi is a horrible Dr. I was a patient of his for 6 years, he put me on various antipsychotics that gave me T.D. And I told him from the start I was concerned about this. He got in an argument with me about it. Sure, enough, I had T.D. when I went off the drugs with another Dr. He never checked for any movement disorders, only wrote blood labs for my Lithi7m levels twice in 6 years (required to get them now every 6 months). He strength is writing papers & speaking. He Is not a good Dr. He is horrible with patients & not a good person.

[@rowan535]

fuck wish this guy was my doctor ay. Thanks for the lecture, very interesting i appreciate Nassir's open minded take on everything, refreshing perspective compared to what i normally hear

[@smartttt1000]

i just had consult with him for my daughter. he is awesome . you just email him , get his email from tufts medical centre and he responded in 15 minutes. Fees are 525 USD per consult.

[@dianecleary1054]

I stopped talking to my psychologist and psyc nurses. I said to my self why am I speaking to these people they cant help me. Its just blah blah blah. Feel a lot better. Watching such videos are much more helpful.

[@feralbluee]

51:53 so much to think about. having a B.S in psych and bio, and doing my own research and study, i could pretty much follow him to this point. now i’m either tired or he’s gotten into tech stuff i’m not familiar with. very interested in the borderline criteria and find the mixed depression criteria to be more logical and realistic than the separate disorders. so, therefore, i myself have mixed depression spectrum (- so not •depression plus •ups and downs plus •agitation bipolar disorder), but a spectrum, which makes a lot more sense. my best friend was devastated by borderline disorder and it was a very long time before she was able to get very helpful medication both new and earlier developed meds combined. this is so very fascinating. it is really so brilliant that people like me can get to hear this information through YT. thank you so much for posting this. 🧬⚖️🧘🏽 Heavens to Murgatroyd! this was 9 years ago. what’s been happening since then!!?

[@allanduailibe4301]

Very good! Prof. Nassir Ghaemi is the reference Manic Depressive Illness!

[@minnietoot9704]

Why cant this guy be my doctor?

[@48trlman]

Thank you for uploading this very interesting lecture

[@motylanoga5705]

Extremely interesting lecture.

[@mohmedessa6745]

Excellent lecture by Dr Nassir.

[@fojerbachas]

thank you, great info.

[@kimlec3592]

Those of us accustomed to poor treatment from early age are more inclined to have symptoms. It means you're human, not ill.

[@mrholmes8]

That is too funny I was calling anti psychotics dopamine blockers well before I ever watched this video. Still these drugs I take very cautiously as the name implies a blocker and blocking something can lead to somethings I will not discuss here.

[@Cita31253]

Mixed depression is real and very painful to live with. I haven’t found medication to be effective. I have lived with this my whole life and only diagnosed at 35. I am now 66, retired female with oddly successful career. I had 2 years of tardive diskonesia (TD) in my forties initiated by geodon. I am now recently off all antipsychotics because I am so fearful. I am so fearful of TD, I know I would blow my head off.

[@Lescandalefinir]

When you say oddly successful what do you mean (sorry to ask). I've always known, i got told I'm CPTSD, bullies however tarred me with bipolar, even though diagonsis is not bipolar (yet?) I stumbled across this.

[@Cita31253]

@@Lescandalefinir I said oddly successful because despite my illness, it was for the most part. I am a retired engineer, so most of my interactions at work involved technical matters.

[@Cita31253]

How old are you? Bullies are typically not experts in any field except cruel stupid harassment. I hope that you find relief

[@Lescandalefinir]

@@Cita31253 actually I have had my diagonsis now and its PTSD, because on the dsm they do not recognise CPSTD. Appreciate your response.

[@Cita31253]

@@Lescandalefinir In my case (bipolar), having a diagnosis was a relief. I don’t know much about PTSD but I have heard that treatment has improved over the last decade. I often wonder about free will, given that my mood shifts so radically. Many people view having ‘non-typical’ psyche as a moral failing. Please try to resist being put in that box. Best of luck, don’t give up

[@michelesimko7541]

80’s on drug culture and stock market problems. Post modernistic fits so well.

[@noreenquinn3844]

you should discuss this with Professor Ian Mcgilchrist on a podcast

[@sharonlee7055]

Self promoted psychiatrist/philosopher, more interested in getting published and being provocative, than using science or being effective. He tries to harm the profession, but the profession will survive, fortunately for the patients. Psychiatry is first about helping patients. I do not know a single physician who thinks the modern ethic language and messages are contained in hippocratic writings, which had more to do with training other physicians. Yes, you will eventually get all of your provocative, unscientific papers published; but that is due to the process, not the value. It harms the literature, but 90 percent of the literature is poor anyway.

[@kathleenfitzgerald7839]

What experience do you have Sharon ?

[@kennyt7780]

Sharon’s comment is one of the few insightful ones here. I was a patient of Ghaemi’s for years & he is more into promoting himself than caring about the well being of his patients. Apparently, you drank his Kool Aid as well. My husband is a neurologist & says Ghaemis take antipsychotic drugs and tardive dyskinesia is totally off base and harmful to patients. I should know. He should spend more time caring for patients than trying to book another speaking gig

[@jothishkjpsy5986]

agreed.. He is the person who is responsible for overdiagnosis of bipolar disorder.. And spread lot of unscientific informations about bipolar disorder, after reading all of his articles,what i feel is are we all bipolar?.. His Idea about hypomania will lead to labelling lot of normal individual into abnormal...

[@vademecor]

​@@kennyt7780 not to be offensive, but neurologists have no idea about treatment in psychiatry. They are obviously tremendous professionals in their area and know the indications and pharmacology of psychiatric drugs, but that isn't nearly enough. I really mean no disrespect with this answer. In fact, Ghaemi's opinions should receive criticism, since we are all (including him) trying to do science and that is what it's all about. He does have excellent points. He also has forced a lot of psychiatrists to question the status quo, which really does need to change. I believe he is a voice that absolutely has to be heard, even if we do not agree in certain points.

[@zackmacthetictac]

The claim that amphetamines at therapeutic doses for ADHD "kill neurons" is not supported by any the references he cited in his powerpoint. I looked up every citation. They are tangential quasi-related animal studies that have little to nothing to do with real life and do not measure anything related to what this presenter is talking about. For example, the fancy slide with the photos of neurons is from an article in 2003 that did not study the effects of amphetamines at all, let alone study ADHD whatsoever. It studied the effects of pretreating rats with lithium and valproic acid then giving them NMDA to see what happened to neurons in a certain part of the brain. NMDA is not used to treat human ADHD; perhaps it is standard of care in treating rats with ADHD who are failing rat school, but I'm no veterinarian so I do not know about that. NMDA does not even have the same or even almost same mechanism of action as amphetamines. Furthermore, the citation listed to back up the claim that only 10% of ADHD persists into adulthood is not based on actual collected data in the study this author cites. This study takes some real life data then "extrapolates" the "trend" into the projected future to guess the "estimated rate of adult ADHD" if the rate of decline of adult ADHD diagnosis continued years and years past the time that they actually collected the real-life data that they used to calculate the initial rate of decline of adult ADHD diagnosis. In other words- they made some massive assumptions about the projected data in order to come to a conclusion that they did not have actual data for. They guessed without any evidence to back up the validity of the assumption they used to make their guess. Last time I checked, that was called fortune-telling, not science. More recent studies, based in factual data instead of hypothetical data, do not agree with the claim of 10% persistence of ADHD from childhood to adulthood. Before you go losing your mind that you or someone you know is taking amphetamines to treat ADHD, take the time to look into what the research actually says, not just how some people misuse unrelated non-human research and twist the facts to suite their own agenda. But don't take my word for it- look into it yourself. If you find an answer to the treatment of ADHD in rats, please let me know. Clearly, it is incredibly useful for the practice of human psychiatry.

[@TheChristos73]

Thank you for being so thorough and checking the presenters references. Im sure most of us take it for granted they are congruent with his interpretations. thanks

[@carolewhitrock5863]

Appreciate your thorough check of sources & detailed commentary. Does this imply that the rest of his presentation passes your rigorous standards, or are there equally seriously flawed or offerings? On the whole I found his experience of communicating with the DSM IV & V folks to be trenchant. ~ Also as a teacher who kept white lab rats as loyal pets in my classroom appreciate your continued

[@Cita31253]

@@carolewhitrock5863 I think he is a wind bag...

[@onniali3945]

Interesting lecture...I thoroughly enjoyed the learning, but, I don't follow your logic on your interpretation of the Hippocratic oath. I mean, I didn't realize that the quote was improperly stated, but the other stuff. But I hope you have other lectures on KZbin. You stated a belief in an anti- post modernist stance which I think I believe, at least the parts I understand.

[@-3-5-7-]

Very interesting lecture

[@sandrasyries2766]

😃St Louis is not the country side!

[@mranoraks5860]

To me going by family history is just not good, I am different in so many ways ,how many people no there family history from 60 years ago or if they even went to get help or classed as the right illness among other thing ,you can say well it's not in his family history but do you really no ,yes some might but how many do you think actually know?I have ulcerative colitis took them 3 years to find it, I also have manic depression/ bipolar ,took one vist to tell me that 20 years ago.

[@jayjohnston1]

This guy always sounds good when he is speaking about mood disorders. But he knows nothing about ADHD. He is weird always saying there is no such condition as ADHD in adults. His statement that adults diagnosed with ADHD are actually having hypomanic symptoms is ridiculous. He truly knows nothing about ADHD. It is NOT EPISODIC. He is a hypocrite. He criticizes others for ignoring the four or five diagnostic methods of determine a true disease. He doesn't mention ADHD has the highest genetic component of any psychiatric illness, it has unique symptoms ,course and unique response to medication. There is a biomarker but it is much too expensive : functional brain imaging.

[@ochem123]

I agree. He’s got some good stuff regarding mood disorders, but he’s way off base with ADHD

[@jothishkjpsy5986]

He is one of the person who overdiagnosis bipolar disorder and spread lot of unscientific views about bipolar disorder

[@travellerg.8068]

Thank you!So much this is very helpful

[@poochini7272]

So inspirational 🎉

[@jamesp8095]

Interesting but done agree with everything he says.

[@jothishkjpsy5986]

One of the most unscientific psychiatrist knows in my life.. Overdiagnosis of bipolar disorder is growing problem,nowerdays lot of psychiatrist hardly trying to stops overdiagnoaing trend in bipolar disorder and he is one among main pioneer of overdiagnosis trend of bipolar disorder, his pseudoscientific view about bipolar disorder..especially about hypomania labelled lot of normal one into abnormal ...i don't know what is his definition of normal mood, if we follow his own ideas about mania, hypomania everyone in the world fit into bipolar disorder

[@RichieKnowsBest]

I LOVE THIS!

[@michelesimko7541]

They mean excited (mood change sudden) in one with depression. They return to depression

[@heyho4488]

Mood stabilizers and anti-depressant sound orwellian

[@doctorposting]

lol wtf

[@FlowerPowerWV]

Excellent

[@flacisebulcivike8403]

realistically ?

[@jamesstevenson6086]

Brilliant

[@dougiequick1]

According to this guy debridement in wound healing only makes it worse 1:01:50 .....really?

[@onniali3945]

Not what he said.

[@marciasloan534]

Maybe poor example.

[@DisabledPsychedelica]

46:49

[@mohammedelhamshary2448]

great

[@Cita31253]

Ok, so this guy is smart. But does he really help his patients? What is his contribution other than to show off?

[@sharonlee7055]

no really smart, just arrogant....no help to anyone but himself

[@FoxinTaiwan]

$mart

[@salvation9868]

Sadly, it's all about money. They want folks on medications for the entirety of their lives.

[@dianecleary1054]

Your wrong. Many drugs are life changing and saving. I agree many drugs are terrible and docs get you on them but never suggest you stop. Im on Lithium and wish I had it decades ago.

[@michaelshannon9169]

The whole field is a racket folks.

[@mac-ju5ot]

So in essence their are battered women who dont appriate going to work saying " maybe it was the blow to the head " ypu try working alongside a snake in the grass dig officer

[@hg-yg4xh]

Looks and sounds like Jordan Peterson's dad Id assume

[@cathleenhunzeker6210]

well all this bullshit..seriously? ever heard of common sense?

[@kathcarroll6047]

I've got manic depression

[@Advait_Deshmukh_11]

me too. Feels like why? just fuckin why?

[@Cita31253]

Me too and the medical community may be doing more harm than good

[@smilemor-phony5964]

No you don''t. They just want you to believe that you do so they can drug you for life. Stay off the psychiatric drugs if you know what's good for you.

[@healthyone100]

@@Advait_Deshmukh_11 i;m 69 and got depressed like a ton of bricks

[@Advait_Deshmukh_11]

@@healthyone100 Forever emptiness.

[@BF-xc2sk]

this is nothing for the layman. Too much “academica teoria”