Video Game Hand Holding and the Yellow Paint Discourse

Yes, the allegations are true. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth does in fact feature yellow paint, and that's a problem... I think? It's more of what we saw last year when Resident Evil 4 Remake dropped, and history will certainly repeat itself the next time game developers dare to have anything yellow in their game. Truth is, everything from Pokémon to Dark Souls has yellow paint, but the yellowness of the paint varies heavily from game to game, y'know? You don't? Just watch the video bruh.
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[@Regretted]

valve actually had a pretty cool philosophy on this. They essentially did hold your hand but in a subtle way. For them though, they tried to use lighting to guide the player so it still blends with the environment but subconsciously players are drawn to the light

[@EhurtAfy]

That's just level design 101. I read a long time ago about how levels are always cleverly designed to make players feel smart, especially in FPS games and immersive sims like Dishonored. Players need to know intuitively which walls are climbable and developers always have subtle, underappreciated ways of doing this stuff

[@HeyJoJoTF2]

That's a good philosophy on level design but there's the conversation of how to point out interactables. Valves philosophy on that was a bit of more colour, limiting small objects lying around, and bright blue outlines which is fine for an arcadey game but would take you out more than yellow paint in re4. In older days there were limitations, cartoons had to have things that did something different to it's environment on animation cells which stuck out, just like games had static backgrounds and interactables were handled differently and stood out automatically - games would also take a more arcadey approach. When getting more realistic you can't just say "valve used lighting" cos it sounds like the solution suggested is to put a street lamp over every breakable barrel lol. But solutions could lie in subtle colouring, or making things look more "used" or "recently moved" etc

[@Regretted]

@@HeyJoJoTF2 Thats fair but in that case I'd argue that it'd make more sense if intractable objects like breakables were marked with the town insignia or something instead of random yellow paint splashed everywhere. I think the real reason the yellow paint is so immersion breaking is because it stands out so much while having no good lore reason to exist. Ironically I think left for dead style outlines would be questioned less by players because it's obvious it's just a video game thing for the player. Kinda like how nobody questions red barrel = explosion. Not that I think that's what should've been done but the real takeaway is that I think people only care so much because the yellow paint feels like a half assed way of guiding the player while keeping immersion. If the expectation wasn't there it might be more jarring but people would just accept it as a video game thing

[@HeyJoJoTF2]

@@Regretted we'll be able to know better as more "linear but with mild exploration" games come out and try non yellow paint methods. The sekiro stuff made great sense as since chalk is used for grip it is clever to have it on ledges, whether it was put there intentionally by the people or it's there because people with chalked hands climbed it etc it lines up with real life a bit and immerses you Accepting it as a video game thing I think is an argument with a few shades. I remember with mirror's edge having red paths, it was a very video game thing but also had a lore explanation, but a lot of people still complained that it either was too hand holdy, or immersion breaking and I suppose "the argument" depends on which of the two people are also unhappy with or both. Yellow paint being hand holdy - sometimes yes but sometimes it takes out the guesswork and eliminates the possibility of things being too natural and annoying to recognise like this video touches upon (however part of RE is learning things and replaying it so things not being obvious would still likely work just not for newbies playing once?). Town emblem could work but even then you'd have to make it obvious enough to the point it might be too much for some anyway. Immersion breaking - slightly different in that yeah do you want this third person spin kicking game to make you feel like you're living it yourself, or are you playing a game in the end so you deal with the yellow paint being a half gamey half in universe thing so you know to knife these 3 boxes then move on to the fun part. But yeah no lore reason for it so town emblem could be better but then it can be immersion breaking as you inevitably question it "surely they'd just get stuff from a market why is there branded crates" or they'd have to create an entity/corporation that provides these crates/relief that makes sense. But also it's a historically beloved intentionally corny game. Subtle yellow paint is kinda whatever in RE but for something like Warhammer where the franchise is all about every single thing having a cohesive explanation, random yellow paint would not fly at all. I thought the use of colours/lighting, and the yellow taped box in re2 was perfect. Why not yellow tape on re4 crates? Taped boxes is pretty normal I would've thought. Left 4 dead mostly had the excuse of post apocalypse/everything is cleaned out but they basically had fuck all decoration in their maps to the point you see a small object 95% of the time it's something you can pick up. In other games that want to look full of life it's something to experiment with

[@thechugg4372]

Welcome to game design 101, triple A games seem to have forgotten about this!

[@ladonglejones6930]

I think you make great points here. My issue with "yellow paint" specifically in RE4 and FF7 is entirely aesthetic. Color coding can be made clear and consistent without looking so gaudy. Sekiro's organic-looking white ledges are a fantastic example.

[@daltonrussell3357]

Me too. If you need to littler let slap a bright color onto the critical path, you need to re evaluate your art direction and environmental clues. Of corse the issue is the more subtle and diegetic your guiding is, the more likely someone (and specifically reviews who have limited time and have to juggle a lot of games) will miss it. It’s why I prefer sticking the “paint” behind some sort of sense mode alal persona five, where you tap a button and all the interior objects get highlighted. Sort best of both worlds in my opinion, keeps the aesthetics in line but also makes it so your never mistaking a intractable for a non interactive.

[@AnimatedCarl]

Yeah. This is exactly the point. You can make a ledge clear and obvious to climb without making it look like it was deliberately placed by developers of a video game. The Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima examples being used in FF7 Rebirth would have been totally fine and still fit in with the visual style of the game. No need for yellow paint. It's also not like you NEED the yellow paint because in-game, there's still a UI element showing you where you are allowed to climb and (so far) I've been deliberately led to one of these climbing points by a diegetic element. The yellow paint comes across as weird because even across FF7 Rebirth, they use the more Sekiro/Tsushima style ledges in tandem with the UI. "Why use the yellow ledge at all?" is more the question.

[@indrast5203]

You can even put an accessibility setting to make these pop out more or be more sublte.

[@TheReZisTLust]

Imagine if there were blood streaks instead like someone's tried to get the object but couldnt before death

[@shosc16]

Same with ghost of Tsushima

[@DENIS_Biomech]

I've inhaled enough yellow paint to need it to guide me through games 😂😂😂

[@avaliantsoul5408]

I think the main thing is simply making it fit in the environment without BLENDING into the environment. like exploding barrels, which in my warehouse experience often are painted red or yellow, or otherwise have massive brightly colored symbols on them because its kind of important to know where explosive, pressurized, flammable, corrosive, or toxic chemicals/materials are in a heavily trafficked area. the yellow paint on rock ledges makes no environmental sense. also, that quote about removing a right-hand branch in a tunnel because one singular play-tester got turned around is just an instant facepalm for me. While I understand not wanting to "gatekeep" or push away players, at some point you might just have to ask yourself "do we really need to design a game around the mental capacity of a two-year-old?" Like, there's dumb, there's stupid, and then there's trolling. And frankly, I have a hard time believing that a player ran the exact same loop for 30 minutes out of stupidity. I hope for their sake that they were checked-out, bored, or just trolling. And then they solved it by just removing the branch, rather than adding a couple scrath marks or something so that if you took that "wrong" branch the first time, you would be able to identify it the second time and not do so. EDIT: also, just add the option in the menu to just turn shit like this off. that way, everyone can be happy.

[@connivingkhajiit]

yeah. Portal 2 did it well with the white surfaces that could accept portals. They were easy to see (by design), but blended well into the environment because they were a normal occurrence in the structure of the map. Never once did I think they looked out of place, even in the later section of the game in the salt mine. Yellow paint on the other hand is fundamentally a special occurrence and stands out from the environment of the game because it was designed to. It is immersion breaking.

[@topcat59]

3:53 That is the most gorgeous looking Shrek I’ve seen in a game.😹

[@kisukoev]

A perfect example of the "if it's not needed, remove it" philosophy is Fumito Ueda's "subtractive design". If you don't know, it basically consists in saying "this one thing in particular is the point of the game, I want people to focus on this" and then removing anything that doesn't help that purpose. The point of Shadow of the Colossus is fighting the colossi, so there's no need to fill the world with side activities like it's a Yakuza game (non that Yakuza is bad, I'm just saying it's not the goal). In Ico the point is to save the girl from the shadows, so there's no need for a healthbar or a complex combat system, just button mash until the shadows are gone, you're supposed to feel tense when that's happening, and not having fun chaining combos like it's DmC

[@nifftbatuff676]

To see an example of game that demonstrate that is completely not necessary any yellow painting, look at the original Thief.

[@grifgaming436]

But you can still tell what you can climb on in that game because the climbable areas have a blue slight blue glow/aura on them.

[@nifftbatuff676]

@@grifgaming436 I was speaking about the original Thief (1998)

[@communistwookie1243]

​@@nifftbatuff676almost every game back then was easily readable. No lighting makes things readable. The original thief isn't even comparable to a game like re4 remake.

[@nifftbatuff676]

@@communistwookie1243 There is no technical reason why a modern game shouldn't follow the design of Thief. See the video "Thief vs AAA gaming" if you are interested.

[@MA-go7ee]

​@@nifftbatuff676one of the greatest video essays ever made. Glad people are still spreading the word. It's absurd that all we're saying is that guidance should be subtle and less jarring and we're getting pushback, wtf.

[@tgs5725]

To play devils advocate, nearly every game already has "Yellow paint" in the game. Worlds and levels are created very specifically to guide the players attention to points of interest. Im not saying the yellow paint is required, but I'm offering that outlook to the people who think they are "hard core" because they "dont need the paint"

[@joenoodle6914]

Yes, and "yellow paint" is the worst way of doing this. Guiding the player is great if done subtley, when its so blatantly obvious it just feels like the game thinks you're stupid

[@Ten_Thousand_Locusts]

That's not playing devil's advocate that's just missing the point entirely. Level design that doesn't need yellow paint because it's readable and guides the player towards the next objective without the player even realising is good game design and literally no one is going to complain about. Slapping yellow paint on everything so you don't actually have to design your levels well, is extremely lazy at best and incredibly incompetent at worst.

[@lilbiscuitjz171]

you just basically said what he did in the video during the lara croft and mirrors edge part. its based on the gameplay and type of game, guiding the player isnt a new thing

[@tgs5725]

@@Ten_Thousand_Locusts you didn't watch the video then. He literally explains that the environment being bright yellow has been going on for 20+ years.

[@garretwoeller7669]

My guy that's just called good level design if you get lost in a game your not meant to be then that's bad level design and yellow paint is bad level design.

[@qqqqq9953]

Bro is gonna be one of the biggest gaming discussion channels in a few years

[@rauvixanimates]

Only if he was consistent

[@lostexodus]

This video is a downgrade from his previous ones. Traded fun banter to nitpicking and complaining

[@nadaburner]

@@lostexodus I agree. I just started watching him and noticed the disingenuous examples he used in favor of his own argument in the last two videos. I'll very likely not subscribe which is unfortunate because the first video was very engaging unlike the next two which instead made me feel annoyed at certain parts.

[@Bongbongo]

​@@lostexodusI kind of agree. I'm just glad he's not one of those video essay guys who resort to hopping on controversy and rage bait for views.

[@leolightfellow]

I think people just don't want their immersion to be broken, which the video nailed. :) It may not make sense for treasure chests to be placed in forests, deserts, beaches, etc. but it doesn't break most people's immersion since we're used to it. I'm not saying we just have to get used to yellow paint. What I'm saying is maybe the old ways of doing things work better. edit: Actually, the assist option by pressing select while playing Final Fantasy 7 was in the original Playstation release of the game too, so all versions of the game have it.

[@terrenceswiff]

Your point about how "making it glow would be worse" is simply untrue, and yes RE4 original is a good example as to why. At one point in time, that game was absolutely convincingly real to people and nobody minded the objects. The "real life paint" raises questions that glowing objects do not. I really, really, REALLY don't understand how people miss that so hard. Even explosive barrels can be explained by having fuel throughout an area for a base.

[@AlexDestroyerOfEarth]

Yeah like it's a game. If there are "gamey" things in it we are cool with it, but if you make things seamlessly blend in now there needs to be a real explanation.

[@NasuPrime]

“At one point in time” is doing a lot of heavy lifting. At one point, FFVII had mind blowing visuals

[@terrenceswiff]

​@@NasuPrimeI think there's an enormous difference between the early 3D polygons of FFVII and the realistic faces and expressions from RE4 but sure, if you wish to oversimplify.

[@fruitslicer]

making it glow would be worse because if you took a hyper realistic image, inserted a hyper realistic box and then cut it out and made it glow bright it would look so out of place. yellow paint is just there and is less annoying than a fucking glowing object that is basically asking you to just go hit it like thats more handholding than yellow paint

[@terrenceswiff]

​@@fruitslicerI don't care about handholding or not handholding, but complaining about objects like that makes me wonder if you also wholeheartedly despise UI elements as well. They're so out of place they literally don't exist in the environment. The reason I'm okay with glowing objects is since those can be rationalized as "game" elements, not "real, explained in the setting" elements--in which case rather than accepting it as something contrived by a video game designer, I need to ask about the implications in-setting of someone painting something.

[@evanjsx]

I think Mirror's Edge did optional signposting very well, in that runner vision is diagetic, but turning it off works just as well, and enhances the experience for "puzzle masochists" like me Not sure how I compare to the majority, but I'm a "disable hints always" person, so things like the "NPC hints" in God of War drive me _crazy_ 😭

[@queengames8421]

Gamers love Yellow Paint. They just hate when they realize it's there, because it breaks immersion.

[@amansavant707]

I think realistic or immersive game must give you control of the character and how you experience the world not straight up tell you what to do, and yes most linear games don't give you the options but it must atleast feel like your given the options because the feel of the world is what's important right

[@lucky_-1y]

Yeah but something that also breaks immersion is Nathan Drake jumping off to a abyss bc nobody can see the parkour bits

[@queengames8421]

@@lucky_-1y correct. That's why gamers like yellow paint when they don't notice it; they hate losing.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

​@@queengames8421i love yellow paint, its the best one to huff by far 💛

[@senseweaver01]

I'm all on board for a toggle, but I don't need it. Frankly my level of focus is so bad now that I appreciate the help

[@Pan_Z]

That this has been exclusively about yellow paint shows how well developers normally guide players diegetically. FFVII Remake is a standout example, because the paint doesn't even look natural.

[@averagesoul8256]

"in the mess of detailed textures and hyper realistic lighting that is moden games" theres your problem, it shouldnt be this way , noone asks for hyper realistic clutter where you cant understand where you have to go, art direction is the one that should guide, look at the fromsoft games, they guide you trough environmetns that make sense structurally and they let the players put the map together in their heads, no paint nothing. sekiro uses that white thing on ledges sure but its important to keep in mind thats the only fromsoft game that has the climbing mechanic which means that for most souls players that was a new mechanic and its the only thing in the game that does that, the rest is the usual formsoft art direction guidance. in elden ring since they dont have climbing theres notihing like that to distract the player from the beautiful environments.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

no i actually like it like that. like imagine being in a warzone or a zombie apocalypse and u dont find a a huge mess. that would be dumb. the messy rooms can also be environmental storytelling. like look at any black ops zombie map, u can tell shi went down there because of how messy things are. getting rid of all that would break more immersion than yellow paint. also yellow paint looks fine on man made objects, people just complain to complain

[@VladdyDaddy45]

half life alyx and more just half life in general had very little of the yellow paint problem, which really its not even about the paint being yellow. everything was very subtle in how they stood out. The reason I'm using half life alyx for this example is because its impressive. Not only is it the most graphically impressive half life game, but its also vr, meaning the devs had no way of controlling the camera. Everything in that game was seamless as shit, you could go start to end without ever breaking immersion, mostly due to how as the devs described it, pipes. The pipes were the guide along the set path and I never noticed it until playing the dev commentary. So I would like to compile a list of things alyx did to guide the player: 1. Pipes (as I just explained) 2. Small amounts of contrasted light would illuminate from important objects like mags and resin, most likely why there isn't much blue light used outside of the items. 3. Important things like valves you have to spin were most of the time a calm red, and more detailed. 4. Things like supply crates were very mildly off in lighting, enough to make it stand out, but too little for it to break immersion.

[@tipperdipper1149]

Shadow of the Tomb Raider specifically also allows you to disable the paint. There are three settings, actually. Very visible, much more toned down and subtle, and outright disabled. While I think 'yellow paint' is essential and should DEFINITELY exist, it's nice to have an option to disable it if you're just that hardcore about it.

[@sorensouthard927]

I don't mind yellow paint that much, but doing something that fits into the world most seemlessly is obviously best.

[@Dappis]

No wonder video games are the way they are now if people think "hey, maybe games shouldn't tell you exactly what to do with no subtlety or care" is somehow a capital G gamer take. The yellow paint in Final Fantasy is annoying because they could've done so many things that would've felt so much more natural and feel more in-place, like fucking bright green moss or something, anything like that, maybe show a character climbing, fuck even having a NPC say something would be so much better. Why should i care about the game world at all if the designers themselves didn't care enough to make it flow smoothly, or trust the players enough to actually engage with the game. Does FF7 even have enough of a casual audience that should be treated like they've never touched a controller before to warrant the game being designed around people like that? I really dislike the trend of big budget video games just being movies where you can also walk around now, the indie scene is stronger than ever and keeps putting out classics and one of the reason for that is that indie devs still take their audience seriously(as in, they trust their audience to engage with the game and it's logic). The Dark Souls example is very disingenuous because in Dark Souls all of that fits perfectly with the game's art direction and doesn't stick out and poke your eyes like yellow paint, same goes for red barrels, they're still a object far more natural than random yellow paint. Sure nothing in any video game is truly realistic but that doesn't mean that "breaking your immersion" is impossible and something that doesn't happen, the immersion is broken when something just sticks out in a way that doesn't match it's surroundings at all, and makes itself aggressively obvious. Good level design does not need to yell at you to make itself playable, the yellow paint example does. Sure it is just one part of the demo but it's a trend in the industry, and it makes sense that the people to whom gaming is a hobby in the same way as films are a hobby to some, just don't like the normalization of dumbing down things that used to be, you know, designed with just a little bit more care. There is nothing wrong with not wanting your hobby to take the same kind of turn that mainstream cinema has experienced with every Hollywood product wanting to please as many people, even if it means not trusting your audience to think at any point of the experience. Cave Story did not need yellow paint to make itself playable, and that's something designed by one dude, Final Fantasy is a massive franchise, with a team of designers, they can do better than yellow paint. I acknowledge the want to have a negative kneejerk reaction to anything GAMERS cry about, as most things Gamers cry about are fucking stupid and mostly just culture war bullshit that has actually nothing to do with video games, but i think this is one of the topics where some backlash is warranted.

[@livanbard]

The thing about the red barrels is that people belive wholesale that they exists in real life and if you shott a fuel barrel or tanker trucks that would happen. Its more about people thinking bullets are flammable.

[@fobo3361]

There's a mod that removes the paint, and even turns the white paint in the castle into blood, and i'll admit i prefer it, but even tho it was my 3rd or so playthrough i still had to adjust to "ok i can break these", i was use to just scanning for yellow and moving on, but overall this made my experience 1% better, it was NOT a huge game changer that sucked me into the world and changed everything, and if i wasn't experienced in the title already, i'd have missed so many breakable objects

[@kylethorsrud1692]

I can’t believe we’re even talking about about this

[@MichaelPorcayo]

You have no idea how long I was stuck there, the first time I played FF7 10:14

[@jamesvonderhaar2553]

Yellow Paint is in the uncanny valley. Obviously videogamey markers: Easy to ignore or fake as part of suspension of disbelief. Diagetic markers that make sense in the world: Don’t take you out of the game world. Diagetic markers that don’t make sense in the world: Uncanny Valley. Why is this here? Everything else tells me to treat it like a real part of the world that bears on the rest of the world like every other fact about it. But there’s no actual explanation for it aside from the gameplay explanation. Okay, so what other parts of the world are lying to me and shouldn’t be treated like genuine worldbuilding? What facts are meant sincerely and what facts are meant to be a facile justification?

[@PkmnMasterNeb]

Still playing through FFVII Rebirth and the yellow paint never bothered me too much. Looking back at it though, I think it would have been nicer if they went with something more akin to Ghost of Tsushima’s signposting but it really doesn’t bother me.

[@sulltella924]

at the very beggining of the video you showed the train from uncharted 2 and that proves the entire point,yes you can only grab onto the yellow pipes around the train but a train having a yellow metal bar is much more natural than yellow just randomly beign put on a ledge on a cliff,the problem is that with re4make and ff7remake it just comes off a not even trying to make it seem like it fits,as you showed on the video tomb raider has white paint on the ledges but it looks completly natural and no one has ever bitched about it because it fits.and in regards to why no one bitches about messages in dark souls is because even if they are the paint of the game like you suggest you can turn them off by going offline.

[@HarukoJisan]

When I was a kid, I had so much trouble navigating in OG FF7, i especially remember that bit in Midgar with the abandoned trains

[@NasuPrime]

Train section got nothing on that Sector 6 beam

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

that first room in the temple of the ancients with all the upside down staircases made me want to actually kill myself in real life

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

omfg my comment got deleted because of that, youtube is ruined

[@gentlemanscarecrow5987]

My proposed solution is to REMOVE THE CLIMBING SECTIONS ALTOGETHER thank you P.S. If a game's gonna let you climb ledges, then it better let you climb every ledge in the game for consistency. A ceiling or an uneven surface is the perfect way to tell the player they can't climb there. if I see a flat ledge in a game where I'm supposed to climb those, there's nothing worse than being unable to grab it, besides being blocked by an invisible wall. In the FF7 remakes, the climbing and platforming bits are literally automatic. You walk forward and the character jumps for you. No one thinks that is fun. FFXVI also suffers from unfun movement outside of combat. It was so jarring to go from this fluid, crazy combat system to hold forward on the left stick simulator.

[@maxmustermann3717]

PLEASE lower the bass. I almost can’t watch these Videos because there is so much bass in the voice.

[@ItsYuhBoyyyy]

Guy tryna make his voice super deep😂

[@pedernalman]

I called it: Videogame journalist yellow.

[@Pan_Z]

Never fully appreciated how well Portal's simple, readable aesthetic is worked into the game's story all being a lab experiment.

[@roasty938]

this is my favorite youtube channel

[@Rihcterwilker]

It has nothing to do with the video. Why not watch then comment something about the topic?

[@bunnerkins]

​@@RihcterwilkerKeep spreading that joy my dude. You are doing great and your comment is helping this channel build and maintain a community.

[@Rihcterwilker]

@@bunnerkins It has nothing to do with "spreading joy". Comment sections are already filled with bots, clutter, and this comment just adds to it.

[@bunnerkins]

@@Rihcterwilker you are doing the Lord's work. I've noticed a lot of other comments expressing love and admiration for this channel. I don't think they know that they are cluttering the channel because you haven't replied to them yet. Maybe you should make a top level comment informing the entire comment section that off topic comments are not appreciated. The community will surely boost this message, raising it to the top so the most people can see it. This will avoid more unnecessary clutter and make very clear who the bots are, as they are the ones not respecting your code of conduct.

[@Rihcterwilker]

@@bunnerkins keep defending this now, you're the good guy here. Then check a year from now when this channel gets bigger and 90% of comments are empty words from people that haven't even watched the video.

[@totallynoteverything1.]

how about replace the yellow paint on crates and barrels with, oh idk, physical features that tell you that they are breakable other than yellow paint?

[@espurrseyes42]

It makes sense why explosive barrels in universe would be designed to stand out. Don't want your evil henchmen recklessly moving a crate thinking that whatever's in it can handle it, only for them to drop it and go boom. Or other plausible situations where it'd be really nice for the characters in-universe to know what to handle with caution. There's no reason for there to be yellow paint on anything other than for gameplay purposes, and it's not removed enough from the world to get a pass like interactables being lighter or flashing. It breaks suspension of disbelief unlike these other methods of clearly indicating what you can and can't interact with. And just looks really tacky too.

[@ToothpasteJuice]

Yellow paint stood out for me with horizon zero dawn. I personally appreciate a little guidance, especially in open world games as I have a tendency to feel overwhelmed and lost when there's no direction at all

[@HitoriSanzo]

I think the boxes having a different shading and the items glowing didn't mess wit people's heads so much because before people weren't jacking off to ideas like "immersion", more people cared about the game being good. Plus you play re4 as a kid and break an obvious box you won't think "the devs painted this box diferently to guide me into doing something" you'd think "I noticed the box was different and got items out of it, pretty cool"

[@klulu-kun]

Another thing about exploding barrels, physics wouldn't permit them to explode just because a bullet poked a hole in it. Believe it or not, industrial gasoline is resistant to sparks unless under specific conditions like in the engine it's made for. But video games has transformed the physics we expect from certain objects.

[@Creatorofunimportance]

0:06 the ceo of new blood interactive publisher of ultrakill and is the man named big John

[@carlbrown1000]

They need an option for casual gamers who are new or just trying to bress through games with obvious hints and handholding. And for common and or hardcore gamers we get what we expect like jumping to a ledge we already understand should be jumped to. Or a obvious ladder to climb up.

[@CloudXStrife136]

Chests in Ff7r¹ are all the same now matter where you go, and obvious enough that theyre interactable.

[@Pan_Z]

The FFVII yellow paint is more of an aesthetic issues than a game design one. It's lazy. Square Enix crafted these huge, sometimes gorgeous environments, so the yellow paint stands out too much. A giant glowing sign that reads "go here" wouldn't be that much more obnoxious than yellow paint.

[@synergy96]

I’m a yellow paint enjoyer cuz my vision isn’t that great. But at the same time, I wish a lot of games would just remove climbing in general cuz why tf am I scaling a cliff side in final fantasy

[@NasuPrime]

Gamers yearn for the riveting hold left stick up gameplay

[@RyuSaarva]

Original FF VII had plenty of climbing but in that game there was no paint, instead of immersion breaking stuff it had a toggle option for markets which showed which spots are climbable.

[@pepperidgefarmsremembers92]

Doom 2016/Eternal with green markers was my first thought.

[@daniel8181]

When AC and BotW/TotK are centered around climbing but dont have blatant indications of interactivity it kinda makes anyone doing the yellow paint to indicate you can climb on conveniently placed rocks jutting from the face look stupid. I mean, imagine if third person shooters put bright colors on all the chesthigh walls to indicate they were in fact chesthigh walls?

[@tokiwartuthe]

I'm glad you're back it feels like its been forever since you put out a video....yours are always sooo good 👍

[@honey8cake56]

I will always defend the yellow paint. In the Rebirth demo when the whole discourse kicked off, the yellow paint was used on the trail up the mountain. Tifa was the guide for this trail. This indicates that it is an actual mountain trail that people climb up. Therefore, it's not unheard of for people to have painted the cliff edges to indicate to the people following the trail that they're meant to go up there. If people actually continued to play Rebirth, they would know that the majority of the climbable cliff faces don't have yellow paint. In fact in the mining section, so many people couldn't find the ledges that I literally saw memes about it? The yellow paint only shows up where it makes sense for it to be: areas that have been previously explored by the population.

[@southpen4558]

3:01 It makes sense -Yellow paint randomly put on objects makes you ask narrative questions like 'who put this here', 'why is it painted' etc, which is a lot more immersion breaking than a texture that glows or has different lighting. A box thats full-lit is both more visually obvious than a box with yellow paint, and doesnt look out of place in the world outside of looking off lighting-wise Id much rather have say, things I can interact with shine or something compared to having a big sign taped onto it saying 'CLICK ME' its just more subtle

[@communistwookie1243]

I completely disagree it would be more subtle with re4's lighting engine. Hard disagree, actually I don't think you can even visualize what it would actually look like, I think what your suggesting would look so jarring and out of place you can't even picture a mental image of it. The lighting your describing actually isn't even possible in a system such as re4. Yes I'm saying your suggestion is physically impossible, it would require a completely different lighting engine

[@jtnachos16]

@@communistwookie1243 Bruh. Do you seriously not know what a specular map is? You should maybe get some basic knowledge of tech before talking about 'isn't even possible' or 'would require a completely different lighting engine'.

[@southpen4558]

What I'm talking about LITERALLY Is in the original re4, come on, 2:24 literally shows it You just give certain objects a property where they follow their own basic lighting system or just dont have shadows and boom

[@amberhernandez]

Astounding, how you can make a 23-minute video about the situational nuances and how each case varies, while the comments are yapping at each other like "thing bad," "thing good actually," and eventually "it depends." It's like they didn't watch the video affirming exactly that. 💀

[@NasuPrime]

Same way that I can make mild criticisms of Elden Ring over footage of me no hitting bosses and the rebuttal still be "Mad cause bad, git gud." They stop paying attention the moment I stop reaffirming their beliefs

[@LauraBow]

I could understand the yellow paint being used during something inconsequential to the core game play. It's not like you're playing a slower paced point and click adventure game where that actually would spoil the core game play. I also think a lot more people play like DSP than we'd like to believe and they dont have the patience to figure out the non shoot-y parts.

[@NevilsicoShard]

Two options: Less in your face, blended "markers" or a toggle feature; the latter is likely more troublesome in practice. A game could be designed with guiding/yellow "environment-indicators" in mind with a prompt on first launch to enable or disable said placed marks.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

i dont want the devs to cave in. its dumb that people are asking a solution for a non issue. its yellow paint get over it

[@gregorygeorge8695]

John Sony high fived me and then five days later, killed my grandma. 10/10 I truly felt like Spiderman.

[@fubu72]

Yeah like you mentioned there's great ways to make yellow or even non yellow signposts. I do like how RE4 just makes the barrels and boxes a more highlighted color, that trick might come precisely from playing games with pre-rendered backgrounds + interactive objects popping out. Heck, that happens in animation too (doors, walls about to break, etc.), particularly old stuff. I just can't quite put my finger on why the paint of RE4 remake looks a bit odd. It looks "out of place" and that's good for readability, but it's an out of place that still feels a bit weird to me... I wonder if they'd just look better with an overall yellow tint. Even a highlighted outline maybe. The smudged look really just makes you think of a ganado running around with a yellow brush lmao

[@NasuPrime]

Thing is, they could easily explain it as just that. Someone running around painting boxes. The best NPC for that role would of course be the merchant. Someone whose existence is equally as nonsensical. How does this random ganado have access to all this weaponry and why do all the enemies ignore him? Doesn't matter, the gameplay calls for the existence of a merchant so there he is, and players don't question it. If Capcom said that the merchant painted everything to help Leon survive and eventually put more pesetas in his pocket, would everyone really be content with that explanation?

[@dennigalla]

It literally just needs to be a toggle. Will that make the level design/readibility a problem? Probably. But that's on the devs.

[@PhantomHalf]

Most of the time people are fucking dumber than a bag pf bricks so some guidance is needed. But I think that some games go way too overboard on the handholding and that actively detracts from the experience.

[@UltraVarietyChannel]

You make some great points here. I think they can compromise by making the yellow paint less vibrant. That being said, I don't think the idea that "travellers paint safe ledges to grab onto so the route is easier for the next person" is that insane of an idea. Can even have a character point it out. BUT, that wouldn't make sense to have that in like an ancient tomb or something. In the case of Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima, their yellow paint surrogate looks more natural with the environment. Also, it depends on the type of game. If you overuse yellow paint in a game ABOUT climbing, like if assassin's creed 2 had yellow paint everywhere the player needed to go, that would be more egregiously bad. Its something that can be improved, but not something worth screaming your balls off over. Its just a video game, and tbh I never find myself seeing yellow paint and feeling like I'm being totally yanked out of the experience by my neck. There are other things that do that, like major glitches, bad loading screens, terrible framerate, constant and intrusive pop up tutorials, unintuitive controls, or every single exploration reward being another god damn Sheikah shrine.

[@ReddAngry]

Ah loot. Who, i wonder, is going around in all these games staching goodies in old boxes, crates and chests.

[@owlitup2225]

Bro not only defended Scarlet/Violet but is using its music throughout his content. Respect

[@NasuPrime]

“Defended” is a bit much, but the music slaps no doubt

[@limitbreak2966]

9:01 ”it’s like trying to find a needle… *in an asmongold’s bedroom”* PFFFFFFT LMAOOO 🤣💀

[@Halcon_Sierreno]

Also talk about the constant tutoriol pop ups that interrupt the flow just to tell you things that you could probably pick up from gameplay.

[@irystocrattakodachithatmooms]

When it comes to the special vision to highlight climbable ledges, I definitely like the Horizon Forbidden West method. It actually makes sense in universe due to the Focus and Aloy modifying it. You can believe she would be able to figure out how to due to how smart she is and that it could help her. In fact, I would be surprised if she wouldn't actually make such a change to it. That's the way it should be, being believable in universe or only visible to the player. The only thing then is have the character not make comments about a puzzle every few seconds. It's better if you only get that with a button press. Like with Power Wash Adventure and Power Wash Simulator showing you dirty spots.

[@adecentname56]

Bro, we just wanted stuff to be covered by bird shit again.

[@MorganEdgy]

I can complement John Sony's quote with one from the vice-president: "If paint in a videogame bothers you, you can toggle it off" - Playwright Sationson

[@JerichoTheCity]

I don't understand the Gamers™ who have the primal urge to point out they're, in fact, not dumb. The loudest people complaining about this kind of stuff are so fickle.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

its because they are dumb. only people who are dumb want to badly prove how not dumb they are. tbh the only point they have is that it looks goofy af in natural environments like the ff7 cliff. but in re4 i've never noticed the yellow paint because its on boxes and other man made structures so it makes sense like how are people gonna say that yellow paint is immersion breaking yet they're ok with the abundance of breakable boxes with goods inside of them... but no the fact that they have yellow paint is the part that breaks ur immersion

[@Chronoflation]

Just make a hint mode that turns on and off the paint or other hints. But let's be real, if everything isn't interactable then you need a way to distinguish between what is and isn't interactible. Though, honestly, I hate that some cliffs are interactive and some aren't, only discernable via yellow paint. If you can't interact with the walls always or anywhere there's a ledge available, then don't make climbing a mechanic. Make it a cutscene or automated when you go the proper direction, like in classic RPGs when you'd walk up to a ledge and press A to have your character jump down or do whatever. Have a character point out that the team needs to climb up to a place, but the paint on natural walls is off-putting. And it's so obvious it is immersion breaking regardless. They might as well just be extra shiny or something. At least if they're shiny they're just a brighter shade of their natural coloring. I get some people need the help, which is why I suggest a toggle, but there should always be something to clearly indicate what needs to be done. But if you cannot do that without making something so jarring, then you should probably not be designing such a realistic art style, cause you don't know how to develop within it.

[@asmophorp6165]

i dont mind yellow paint but it is jarring when you have a bunch of items that have yellow paint that it over took the over all environment and it also does not help that re4 remake takes place at night or dark places so there isn't a lot of color in the first place

[@GingerKing243]

I think, something a lot of hardcore gamers forget is that a lot of gamers... are very casual. I'm a very busy person with only so much time in the day to game, so when I want to play a game, I want it to be as seamless as possible. Now, I don't want the game to be so easy that I could walk away from my computer, come back, and the game beat itself while I stepped away, but I also don't want the game to be so hard that I have to sit there for 3 hours trying to beat 1 boss because who the hell has time for that? (@darksouls) I want to come home and let games relieve my stressful day, not contribute to it. I just want games to have a happy medium when it comes to difficulty. Games where I still feel a challenge. I still have to try just enough, may even struggle a little bit, but ultimately still come out on top with relative ease. Games that reward me for learning how to pull off a few tricks here and there, but don't force me to sit there grinding and mastering the mechanics to where it becomes overwhelming or exhausting. Some of the best game examples of what I'm talking about are Fall Guys (honestly, most party games), Skyrim/Fallout NV era Bethesda titles, and almost every Kirby game. These are all games that require some skill to beat, but not so much where it's the only game you'll be playing/trying to beat for the next 15 years. I just like my games to be balanced and stress free with just a hint of challenge.

[@RIDDICK0911]

"It first started making waves last year..." - People talked about it for years, it's absolutely nothing new. "Video games are an art form" - Goodbye.

[@theletterm5425]

I still find the examples of Final Fantasy Rebirth and that Resident Evil game to be pretty egregious examples. Making explosive battles red is something that makes sense in universe. Much like how we mark toxic materials with a skull and bones label. It indicates danger. Why would anybody mark random cliff ledges or supply boxes with streaks of yellow paint? The way Ghost of Tsushima or Tomb Raider marked ledges seemed far more subtle and yet conveyed the exact same information just as well. As for Resident Evil's breakable boxes, why not give them an in-universe label that reads "supplies" or something to that effect? Smearing yellow paint on interacable objects just seems like the most thoughtless way to go about it. Like the devs just said "fuck it" and moved on.

[@LunaFelton]

It isn't egregious, it's good game design objectively. I don't want to be in the middle of an encounter in RE4 and guess which boxes are breakable... that would be poor design. But people just don't get good game design ig. They should include an option for people who are uptight about it and whine about it so that they can play without it and inevitably get frustrated because they realise how it is actually good :)

[@theletterm5425]

@@LunaFelton Nothing "objective" about this topic, just different opinions. I suppose covering your interactive object in yellow paint is better than not being able to tell, which object are interactive at all. But it's still an inelegant solution. Many examples shown in the video were much better integrated in the game world. FF Rebirth and RE were some of the most blatant und unsubtle ways of leading the player's attention to an object. If that's what you need in order to play the game that's fine but others would prefer more elegant and subtle design choices.

[@LunaFelton]

@@theletterm5425 Well those people are the same mfs who'd get lost without it as it's LITERALLY been proven humans are too stupid to tell without obvious guidance, it's objective good game design and most people who complain about it don't get the why and just are bitching for the sake of bitching. Pretty sad tbh

[@theletterm5425]

@@LunaFelton Again. There is nothing "objective" about game design. How do you think people in the 80s and 90s managed to beat video games with much more obtuse and flawed game design? Also, I specifically criticized RE and FF. There are literally better examples of how this can be done in the video we are commenting under. Ghost of Tsushima is much more subtle at indicating climbable ledges than FF is, without losing anything in terms of clarity. Same goes for Uncharted. Nobody complained about these games back then because the design was subtle, elegant and made sense in-universe. Yellow paint is none of these things. Might as well have a big, bright red arrow on the screen every time you come near a climbable ledge. Would that also be "objectively good game design" to you?

[@LunaFelton]

@@theletterm5425 RE is great about it and I don't think you played the game, RE4 is an immaculately designed game and I don't want to be thinking what boxes are breakable when i'm fighting in an encounter. Yellow paint is amazing since yellow as a colour makes it stand out, and if it actually makes the game bad or it takes you out, that says more about the loser then the game itself. Also yes game design is objective, you cannot tell me a game like Sonic 06 is well designed for example. If you don't believe in objectivity you are stupid.

[@ThelgreatestRisx]

Anyone know what song he used in the background from 6:20 to 9:10 ? Also W video btw

[@ETBrooD]

Let me play the opposite side of the argument for a minute. Splashing colors onto interactive elements for guidance can be argued. The idea is ok. The important question is implementation. If guidance becomes the whole game, and especially if there's no variety to that guidance throughout the whole game, then the gameplay loop becomes extremely repetitive and boring. It turns into a checklist rather than an experience/journey. No one wants their video game to turn into boring, repetitive labor. People already work 8-6, they don't want that same experience at home. So the key point is variety. If the developers lack the imagination to create variety for the various elements of the gameplay loop, then they've failed their job. Ok sure, for a 2-3 hour game it's acceptable to have less variety. The game is over pretty quickly anyway. But if this also happens in 20-30 hour games, then there's a problem.

[@dasgr1389]

Re 4 remake has a no yellow paint mod, which allows you to replace the yelllow paint with the cult's insignia, which is a way more immersive way to go about it

[@soccerandtrack10]

This video is the link between playing games and watching movies/tv.

[@nahte123456]

I don't care about yellow paint, but i do think as games get more "realistic" there comes an uncanny valley effect. When i see a glowing item on the ground i know that's a video game thing. When I see a cliff in a game i know that's part of the story, this area has cliffs. When i see a yellow cliff though...is that a video game thing or the story? And that half second of thought can distract.

[@freddice8156]

For me this discourse is just pointing towards a deeper issue within game designs. Which is for a bunch of "nextgen" games, why do we still have selective environmental interactable instead making all of them interactable? We figured out how to make reflective surfaces, but still struggle to make every rocks a climbable surface. It's a dated game design. It's either you do or you don't. If you want to make rocks that can be climbed, make every rock surfaces climbable similar to BOTW and if you want to make a wood product destructible, make every wood product destructible. We only managed to move forward when it comes to accessibilities and graphics but when it comes to game mechanics, we're still stuck in 2010 (specifically referring to AAA games). I feel like all of those games can be significantly more fun while at the same time can kill this whole entire discourse overall since the dev no longer need to educate us on what elements are interactable to begin with. This dated mechanic is not a deal breaker for me, but it is such a missed opportunity.

[@AlexDestroyerOfEarth]

Your entire outlook is proven wrong by ocarina of time.

[@NasuPrime]

Ocarina of Time, the most hyper realistic game ever made

[@AlexDestroyerOfEarth]

@@NasuPrime for the time it was. The point is it was able to easily delineate climbable objects in a believable, in universe way.

[@Basileus127]

@@NasuPrime Why does the realistic art style matter? We can design subtle clues in real life just fine, so I don't see why games have to treat us like idiots. The point of good level design is that the player *doesn't* notice that they are being guided. Yellow point is the exact opposite of this and prevent players from having fun exploring and discovering the game world because the lazy developers spoiled everything.

[@eggguy20]

The Resident Evil 4 Remake should have done worn down boxes or windows as the setting was something that would have greatly benefited from it. I can understand the paint thing being used as a sort of color blind option but using that paint for everything Interactable in the environment is a sign of laziness.

[@patick6642]

22:52 caught me off guard

[@Jan12700]

But the thing with Red Barrels is that most of the time dangerous materials in Real Life also marked with red symbols and propane or gas tanks are also most of the time red. It's therefore natural. Yello paint on thing you can use or break is not common in Real Life and therefore NOT natural

[@noahsan92]

i wasn't interested until i saw it was a Nasu video lmao

[@nhatnang8659]

Should have use white paint

[@Catb00i]

Babe wake up Nasu just dropped

[@hqt00]

Just still waiting here for the remake to finish. Or at least I hope they actually finish it and make a version where you can just play the whole game. Or at least use the same save file all the way through.

[@kenlee4356]

3:26 AKA the EX arm effect

[@DarvosNethven3E]

I don't need hand holding holding telling me where to go simple. It's not because I'm some super big brain Gamer thinking I'm the smartest person in the world. No i just don't simply just don't like having my hand held. Ive played games like Morrowind and dragons dogma so I'm just used to NPCs giving me directions.

[@jairdinh7563]

Hey guys if anyone hates hand holding and doesn't want practically a single bit of it I got just the game for you Rain World.

[@soccerandtrack10]

How does sighn posts help with finding easter eggs?...

[@Rusty_Spy]

Most of this video is pointless guff they meanders around the argument acknowledged in the intro; people understand the importance of signposting but think garish yellow paint is a lazy and hamfisted way to go about it that doesn't mesh with the environment and breaks immersion. And you pointed out examples support that point, namely Ghost of Tsushima and Sekiro; colors that mesh with the environment and don't break immersion. It only begs the question of why FF7 needs unnatural and garish yellow paint to highlight it's ledges or why RE4 couldn't have a unique design for it's supply crates that fits more with it's environment while still being easily recognizable. This isn't something games have struggled with.

[@younggod5230]

Consider that no one complains when from software highlights interactable stuff with a glowing message on the ground, or items simply existing as glowing orbs of light. i think the reason the paint thing in particular comes from how it draws attention to itself. the yellow paint is clearly a NON DIAGETIC element of the game world. to any player it will be obvious that the coloured object is distinct from all others in the environment. that is literally the purpose of the paint. this is non diagetic, because in the real world, or according to logic, objects arent arbitrarily designated as "interactable" or "mon interactable". video games of course have to make this distinction for practicle reasons. a game with interactivity levels akin to real life is neither feasably nor desirable. And yet despite existing for only good reasons, the yellow paint still draws negative attention. why? my opinion is, that it is because its a non diagetic thing, disguised as a diagetic thing. like, the developers opted for "paint" thats simply part of the texture of the object to highlight interactivity, because they presumably didnt want to break immersion by using something like a big button prompt over the object, or perhaps just literal highLIGHTs to highlight the object. but obviously there is a huge issue. there is nothing more immersion breaking than the yellow paint. it is obvious that no one in the game world is running around painting random objects just so a player has a better visual clarity for their experience. the yellow paint stripes immediately hit you in the face with this message: "HEY you are playing a video game right now, but we dont want you to notice! whatever you do, dont think about the fact you are playing a digital video game product game software application right now! not real btw. but dont think about it!" So yea. This is imo also the reason why "red barrels" for instance never sparked this discourse, since red barrels are actually feasable produced that way. there isnt the additional layer of "someone else went over them a second time to mark them with paint" so the immersion breaking anti logic isnt there. more elegant solutions than yellow paint are so abundant and so bovious that, yes, i do think we should look down on developers for using yellow paint. Just make the rocks that are climbable have a similar texture each time they show up. players pattern recognition will pick it up effortlessly. and as long as there is consistency in application of which surfaces are or arent climbable, there will be no issue. or literally just go the route where you highlight these things with actual highlights. players dont hate knowing that they are playing a game, afterall they know it. i think it just makes people laugh or cringe or whatever when devs construct flimsy and obvious lies, trying to have it both ways. "we dont wanna use highlights and handhold the player buuuuut we will still use highlights"

[@Inertia621]

Gonna be honest and don‘t care that interactible things have markings but what I am saying is that making ledges out in bumfuck nowhere Yellow is stupid when you could have marked them like in Uncharted with just a whitish color or something

[@junba1810]

another nasu banger

[@CakeDayZ]

hidden path ahead

[@COSMICCHESH]

They act like SMBs hasn’t had bright flashing bricks with “?” for over 30 years.

[@cobaph]

Is that the Melty Blood OST

[@joeyashman5297]

I think this is a pretty funny discourse to have happened because if these people had waited for ff7 rebirth to actually come out they’d have seen that the game already uses other colours and design decisions when it deems them appropriate

[@ETBrooD]

Regarding Elden Ring messages, I have to strongly disagree. They all look the same before you read them. There are so many messages scattered around that you'll never know whether they mean anything at all or if someone's just trying to troll you. You're heavily incentivized to ignore the vast majority of messages.

[@cow5794]

Mirrors edge did this years ago and we still see it in games, i feel that its not an issue but in story game i feel we should have a option to turn it off, i’ve played story games with no yellow paint and really does add the immersion as you start wonder where to go even when youre not playing the game so that once you get back you can try the list youve made.

[@lambda1863]

Personally i hate in a game when like you have to do a puzzle or something and every 2 seconds a character is like "well the thing said red blue green so what order should we do it?"😊

[@TheNuts1225]

God of War Ragnarok was garbage.

[@lambda1863]

@TheNuts1225 the new god of war games were what I had in mind but this applies to tons of games

[@requiemivqn]

mimir

[@MalikATL]

garbage take @@TheNuts1225

[@idc2329]

@@TheNuts1225subjective

[@1Henrink]

What I hate about detective mode, is that usually games that have it don't bother on making clear what you can or can't interact. Which ends using detective mode ALL the time, and that makes it fell less like a world, but just a group of interactable objects and enemies.

[@GingerKing243]

was about to make a joke, but then realized how I genuinely can never tell where or what shit is in Cyberpunk without detective mode. RIP hahaha

[@MaxNMotion]

Def the Worst aspect of Arkham Asylum

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

​​​​@@MaxNMotioni feel like its fine in the batman games because batman is literally a detective known for having near futuristic gadgets and gizmos. it makes a lot less sense for Lora Croft to have it

[@evangel1460]

To be fair, a lot of old games have things be a different lighting color is because of technical limitations on the console. You can see gears of war do this with some moveable objects. You dont even personally interact with the objects that move, the objects that do just have totally different lighting to stress the engine less.

[@communistwookie1243]

What do you mean to be fair You just restated the exact point he made in the video.

[@evangel1460]

@@communistwookie1243 I watched the whole video and never heard him.use it in his defense. He pointed out RE4 which released on an underpowered GameCube first, so the technical limitations were a part of it. It's not really a design choice, and I imagine if they went back on that hardware they would've made it look more natural

[@communistwookie1243]

@@evangel1460 I can't believe I'm having to say this right now. Like genuinely, I think you are stupid. The entire point of this ENTIRE video, is games made with newer lighting can't rely on the old school method anymore, due to the new hardware and lighting capabilities, due to this, games have started adopting more and more often, the yellow paint. The creator of this video says there must be another way that yellow paint, but the old.method your describing cannot work anymore due to modern technology. Obviously they are not going to release ff15 on the fucking GameCube, all your comments imply that's what they should do, release new games on the GameCube. That's the only substance present. It wasn't a design choice because they didn't NEED IT TO BE, now they do, and they've chosen the yellow, there has to be a better way. That's the entire point of the video you supposedly watched.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

​@@evangel1460IF they went back? they literally DID go back and made it look more natural