Why Capitalism is Good & We Don't Need Inflationary Money. Principles of Economics with Saifedean

Saifedean Ammous is an internationally best-selling economist and author, and hosts The Bitcoin Standard Podcast. In the episode we discuss:
-Saifedean's newest book: The Principles of Economics
-What is capitalism and why is it good?
-How much money an economy needs
-Time preference and societal values
-Bitcoin and the evolution of monetary technology
In 2018, Ammous authored The Bitcoin Standard: The Decentralized Alternative to Central Banking, the best-selling book on bitcoin. In 2021, he published The Fiat Standard: The Debt Slavery Alternative to Human Civilization. His latest book is Principles of Economics, a comprehensive textbook in economics in the Austrian school tradition.
🐦 Follow Saifedean on Twitter / saifedean
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The custom Bitcoin B sculpture featured on Natalie’s set can be purchased at www.vonbitcoin.com
🗒️ IN THIS EPISODE:
0:00 Swan Bitcoin, Bitcoin 2024 promos
2:14 Motivation to write "Principle of Economics" textbook
6:42 Money is emergent
15:25 Importance of the business cycle
31:37 Fold debit card, Coinkite promos
33:07 Capitalism
44:48 Bitcoin unites
54:16 Technology, money and morality
58:53 Crowdhealth, Orange Pill App
1:00:24 Bitcoin is the answer
1:07:41 Role of government
1:22:38 Politicians vs. royalty
💡 OTHER RESOURCES
Natalie’s website talkingbitcoin.com/
Saifedean's website www.saifedean.com/
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Producer: Aron Bender / aron-bender
DISCLAIMER This show is for entertainment purposes only and does not give financial advice. Before making any decisions consult a professional. #bitcoin #cryptocurrency #money

[@jaroq10]

Natalie you are one of the best Bitcoin journalists. Keep up the good work!

[@ParisFisherGolf]

Thanks Nat and Saif, awesome content.

[@hughleemusic54]

Fascinating discussion. Made me think of my parents, who never took credit. They saved until they could afford to buy things. Makes perfect sense.

[@RRR-dv5yl]

On the fiat standard you want to take out loans and buy assets (which is essentially shorting fiat). It puts you closer to the money printer. Waiting until you've saved up enough for an asset whose fiat price is going up doesn't make sense.

[@hughleemusic54]

@@RRR-dv5yl unless you want to avoid being in debt, absolutely.

[@edawg654]

Yep. It shows that what our parents and gparents generations believed about saving is rendered useless by the fiat fuckery complex

[@ExpensivePizza]

It depends what you're saving for. You can save up to buy a new TV or a new computer because the time it takes to save for those things is relatively short. However, you'll never be able to save up for a house. As a rule of thumb, house prices measured in fiat have roughly doubled every decade which means the price is actually outpacing your ability to save. It's the timeframe that matters.

[@edawg654]

@@ExpensivePizza so why have house prices doubled every decade and not TVs? Thats not timeframe

[@The3rdTower]

I bought a Kindle version of the book as soon as it was mentioned. Thank you Natalie for inviting great guests.

[@victoralvarez8962]

Hi Nathalie. I am Lakshmi Victor's daughter. I am 8 years old, and I am a Bitcoin maxi. Thanks for including me in your video, I hope to meet you one day

[@ltethan649]

2 amazing people right here

[@NeuroPulse]

True living off the land would be like the show Naked and Afraid, which instantly turns into capitalism as soon as you start. Exchanging time and effort for resources and tools to survive and prosper.

[@RRR-dv5yl]

The point about foregoing consumption also teaches us how harmful taxation is. When you pay income tax, it's money government is going to shortsightedly spend that you could save/invest and add wealth to society.

[@moralhazard1]

People talk about "late stage capitalism", but it ironically looks more like communism than capitalism 🤔

[@wisteria4981]

Loved and shared👏👏👏

[@carloscelis7765]

Excelent conversation. I learned a lot. I am following him now on Twitter and I find his comments very insightful. Thank you very much for introducing his books to me.

[@modebadze]

Shared with my friends!

[@BitcoinAndChess]

Can you imagine how different the country would be if Saif was the president? Holy shit.

[@simbiotik8480]

Which country?

[@McNallieMoney]

Awesome discussion guys!

[@jsmith668]

Shared ofcause with My Hard Money friends Great show

[@IaN09876]

This music is so nice and calming. I do not want to miss any part of it.

[@DavidRobinson-rj2sp]

Great perspective.

[@PatrickN.]

Wow! That was fire Natalie! Both you and Saif are extraordinarily gifted in explaining things simply! You both had excellent thoughts and explanations. I have the book already and am definitely going to buy more to give as gifts.

[@kylek1556]

Great interview.

[@morganparker7865]

Shared!

[@au10666]

Saif is a G

[@wetdroidedition2549]

I find interesting that related to monarchy/CEO topic, Saifedean agree with Curtis Yarvin. I would like to watch/hear a talk between these two.

[@swamivivekananda-cyclonicm8781]

Natalie you raised such valid point about womens. Proud on you.

[@finglisCave]

Hammurabi test - try to stay in office for 10 years by managing the corn, the people and the land - try it it's fun!

[@carlwatts1230]

Have just started listening but I like the title and i think memetic warfare should focus on attacking the idea that non-inflationary money leads to collapse or stagnation. This belief prevalent and taken uncritically as truth by many. It would be great to have content to link to which deals with this issue specifically. Some clips and a compilation of short writings by various people to destroy the credibility of this idea, or at least sow some seeds of doubts to get the person to treat it as an open question.

[@bitcoinpoemspro1406]

I’ve read the Bitcoin Standard. I need to get the other two books.

[@busymikey]

Tried to buy the audible version. Not available currently. 😢

[@casamurphy]

Nik Bhatia's Network State concept plays into the end of this discussion.

[@nicholasscholten4838]

The monarchy argument is interesting. The usa is crumbling under our feet. And most congressmen are utterly clueless or perhaps not and do what they are told.

[@armaansingh1390]

I just want the book .

[@Zeecash22]

Bring the chapters back 😩

[@azdjedi]

9:00 but gold was increasing its supply every year too just like fiat. I'm unclear why a stable supply matters.

[@ivecadit]

The difference is it takes approximately an equal amount of "work" or energy to mine gold relative to the value. But printing money doesn't require an equal amount of work or energy so therefore it is stealing value from everyone else who holds it.

[@ExpensivePizza]

If you look at the data it's very clear that the purchasing power of a dollar was relatively stable between 1635 and 1913. Average inflation was about 0.06% per year. But there are 2 clear inflection points on the chart. The first was in 1913, the year the federal reserve was created. The second was 1971, the year the dollar went off the gold standard. Since then the purchasing power of a dollar has had an average inflation rate of 3.16% per year. So yes, a stable supply matters. The key is by how much it increases. With gold, the supply is increasing as people physically mined it out of the ground. But with fiat, it's an arbitrary decision made by a government. With Bitcoin, it's built into the protocol.

[@PatrickN.]

@@ExpensivePizza I agree 100 percent, but never heard those data points u mention of .06 and 3.xx. where did u source that? I'm a bitcoiner. I'd like to verify that myself. Could u send me a link to find it? Thanks.

[@jksmithiii]

Politicians in democracies (contra monarchies) as time preference "day traders" of our citizenship.

[@simbiotik8480]

I wish I had a wife with the personality of Natalie.

[@brad6105]

Polska!🇵🇱

[@RRR-dv5yl]

Stack sats and good things will come your way.

[@edawg654]

Lol

[@t3r083]

Careful what you wish for

[@cesuntbanii]

Well... she looks hot as well - we need women like her in the space because it brings more human touch to these abstract concepts. People like Natalie are our link to the other half of population :) - women, most people in BTC space being dudes...

[@DN-dj4gi]

Natalie asks a question... 15 minutes of 'my book, my book, chapter 10 of my book'

[@lulullama4112]

Sounds like Austerity for the commons, and indulgence for the rich.

[@btdoe3259]

We could have global citizenship. And regional associations for security and infrastructure.

[@RRR-dv5yl]

Unfortunately in meatspace certain services need to be geographically based. Maybe one day we'll transcend that somehow.

[@donjuan3296]

sapee

[@icyvision9]

Post-capitalist distributed network of networks

[@dust921]

well tripping on shrooms it hit me battery backed crypto the loop recyclable rechargeable batteries will be like the new gold/oil but better because u can recycle them and get back 90% ish of useful marital:)& if u offer crypto for spent batterys,,..,winwin

[@dingfeldersmurfalot4560]

I remember someone saying she suspects anarchists are crypto-oligarchs, and Safedean's wishing kings upon us certainly proves that out.

[@Reymundodonsayo]

Now he’s just milk in his new readership

[@lulullama4112]

I agree with the analysis that there's an apparent problem with our current capitalist system. Your guest uses great buzzwords like co-op-eration and mutual (aid) but capitalism historically and currently breeds competition over cooperation. It proliferates hierarchical structure for production. Those 2 things together creates disharmony within communities. I don't disagree with all the values and points made, but on the attempts to reform capitalism as you describe I disagree. It was mentioned "we've tried all other models and they didn't work". That's statement lacks analysis, nuance and human ingenuity. To think that only your (guest) version of Capitalism can support capital accumulation is short sighted.

[@cesuntbanii]

Capitalism with sound money should do the trick. It makes sense but requires people to only ask for sound money - wanna get a haircut? got gold or bitcoin? - something like that. Inflation and hyperinflation will bring the right question to people's minds: what is money?

[@johnstevenabumen8906]

Ю.

[@bitcoinmillionaire28]

BITCOIN 2025 IN LAS VEGAS. IMO. PEACE.

[@jcantonelli1]

Trump has had more extra lives than Mario - politicians can't be invulnerable either, Saif.

[@relicofthesoul]

Great podcast until he started talking about trump and banana republic. He's not paying attention , but nat brought it back as I'm hearing now. So idk.

[@uglee4877]

I'd really like to hear Dr Ammous talk about market failures in capitalism. I have this idea that we ended up with such massive paternalistic govts because huge systemic market failures pushed millions into poverty/starvation/desperation and govt had to step in as a humanitarian response. One other thing that bothers me: the painting of gold standard Victorian Britain as some kind of gilded age for everyone. Mass poverty/exploitation was actually the norm in the cities with widespread child prostitution. Charles Dickens anyone? Marx and Engels weren't just some idle intellectuals fantasizing in ivory towers, they were trying to think about a humanitarian way out from the capitalism of the time which was crushing the life out of the mass of the people.

[@andrewgeissinger5242]

There were more people in poverty pre-capitalism. Capitalism has reduced poverty.

[@uglee4877]

@@andrewgeissinger5242 over the span of decades (Far East) and centuries (Imperial/colonial West) I'd agree, would still like to hear more push back on recurrent catastrophic market failures under "capitalism" in discussions with Dr. Ammous. Re: "poverty", I'm also encompassing poverty of human spirit in my definition. I live in the city which birthed the industrial revolution and working people's lives were inhumanly grotesque while they had no choice but to waste their lives toiling for the wonders of capitalist freedom. Also Re: "monarchy", more push back please, I live in UK, we have been forced to endure the biggest scumbags in human history for millennia. Also Louis XVI/Nicholas II anyone?

[@bobhill4364]

Marx was a nasty pervert that refused to work.

[@weaver03]

saifedeen would reach a lot more people if he wasn't so abrasive. bitcoin standard was a great book until you get to the part where he rails against clean energy, modern art, and plant based meats. immediately won't be able to reach half the population just because he can't contain his opinions to appropriate forums.

[@r.randy.phillips]

Ammous has such visceral hatred for Keynes, not just the school of economic thought but the man himself, that it’s hard to take him seriously. I questioned his journalistic integrity and objectivity early on in his book because of it. He has a point of view. Unfortunately it’s one that will not lead to greater mainstream adoption of BTC. Keynesian thought has its issues, but Austrian thinking is still fringe.

[@tcsovereignpleb4492]

Keynesian thought is retarded.

[@RRR-dv5yl]

I don't care what's fringe, I care about what's true.

[@tcsovereignpleb4492]

Yeah I mean the Keynes is responsible for the form of economic slavery we live under today. Hard not to disagree with Saifedean

[@r.randy.phillips]

@@tcsovereignpleb4492 The fact is our economic system in America already has components of Keynesian, Austrian and monetarist ideas. It’s not an either/or proposition and never will be. Austrian ideology by itself has never worked anywhere, ever on its own. The author needs to take a breath.

[@tcsovereignpleb4492]

@@r.randy.phillips that's not a 'fact' at all. When the 'norm' is completely retarded, the 'fringe just' seems totally logical.

[@sirnoodles78]

Monarchs were completely oppressive throughout history. Usually in the name of god. I disagree Saifedean!

[@jcantonelli1]

Please stop pushing the monarchy propaganda. Stick to sound money.

[@schlemmermaul5224]

Having a hard time reconciling unimportance of money supply and the fact that BTC’s scarcity makes it valuable!

[@overbuiltlimited]

He wasn't talking about supply. He was talking about the total amount of 'units.' His point was that it doesn't matter if a monetary system has a total of say 100,000 total units or 100,000,000,000 total units, as long as each unit is sufficiently divisible to allow efficient trade and that there is a fixed cap on the total amount of units. Does that help?

[@fairwindsall]

@fairwinds $5 giveaway just to be a subscriber