NATO, Europe, and Ukraine

[@marcm4118]

The United States has been doing its part and more for over 75 years, time for Europe to step up, and not just in the last 2 years!

[@mil546]

Thank you, General Cavoli.

[@pradeepsen356]

Is it only who gets an allergic attack when I hear "rules based order" from the hawkish Europeans.

[@everettbrunson3864]

yep. Rules for Russia but not for the US

[@teresachurchill8278]

What exactly is their plan? they seem to be proposing forever war without any goal.

[@snake.plissken]

That is the plan. NATO ceased to have a valid reason for existence with the breakups of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union. Now it's all about neverending "pre-emptive" wars in places we have no business and then howling about needing more money because those countries are angry with us.

[@everettbrunson3864]

more money for MIC

[@Jori242]

Quite ridiculous to hear Plötner's words and seeing quite the opposite policies and communications to the German public coming out of the chancellery. Talking without walking the walk.

[@hjmdhcndjskjfcl]

Similar thought. Especially for me absolutely astonishing when you compare plötner's statement on not starting to panic and not fearing the aggressor or an escalation but then fall every single time for russia's atomic threads, which are clearly a way to erode public support for arms shipment to Ukraine. Say one thing and do the opposite. Seems like a strategy of him and Scholz, if i am not mistaken. Just don't understand the strategy behind it yet, since i thing they are aware of the situation. Is it Minsk-3 or preparation for the next election?

[@mihaelatudor2417]

How is Ukraine the business of NATO I still fail to understand.....since everybody is talking about "rule of law" 😢

[@sarahjenkins7064]

Question, what exactly is the “rules based international order”? Who made these rules and where can I look this up?

[@connorrupp4850]

Wikipedia

[@sarahjenkins7064]

@@connorrupp4850 wiki basically says that this rule based order is led by the US and also says nothing about defining what the rules are. Further google searches says that the “rules based international order” is against international law. This “rules based international order” seems like nothing more than word salad to sound legitimate but really means the countries needs to follow whatever the US dictates.

[@vaultsjan]

​@@sarahjenkins7064 you got it wrong. Rules based order means you follow Russia

[@bencejuhasz6387]

Hey, it refers to international trade laws (World Trade Org.) + international law such as the UN Human Rights Declaration, the ECHR, and institutional orders such as the World Bank or IMF. These are not mandatory per se, but the West uses it’s coercive powers to make countries abide by them. Such as: not to wage war or the freedom to navigate on international waters. Of course, geopolitics on anarchic, there’s no world police, not even the US, and noone dares to police the US, so it becomes complicated. But these are roughly the rules.

[@vaultsjan]

@@bencejuhasz6387 but its name says china sea, not philippines coast

[@Kavala76]

Not one of these people discuss (or even mention) the primary cause for the escalation of this conflict, NATO expansion. Failing to address this problem reduces the posssibility of finding a solution. They discuss war, and more war. Hugely disappointing.

[@everettbrunson3864]

They also talk a good game about rules based order and "borders" while endorsing if not fully supporting Israel's aggressions against the Palestinians, illegal under the "rules".

[@Kavala76]

@@everettbrunson3864 Also, let's not allow that fact that the USA still occupies 1/3 of Syria to detract from their deep "respect" for national sovereignty.

[@missyaman7053]

Why would they talk about silly little lies that Putin spread in the beginning of the war, when even he stopped saying, "we invaded ukr to prevent a NATO expansion"? That was propaganda that only fools believed in. NATO were already at his border and now with his dumb war, the border has gotten longer now that Finland and Sweden, ( previously neutral countries) have joined. Putin is an imperialistic warlord, and already came out and told the whole world he doesn't think ukr is a real country. No one cares Abt the "NATO expansion fear" bs. Keep up

[@fabricedieutre2658]

Le general qui se plaint que la Russie va se rapprocher trop des frontières de l'Otan, si l'Ukraine perd la guerre, alors qu'elle n'est meme pas dans l'otan.... Et que l'Otan s''est encore acquis 1300 kms de plus de frontière commune avec la Russie, avec la Finlande....Vous voyez un peu de niveau de betise (dangereuse, pour nous populations de l'UE) de l'etat major de l'Otan...

[@ro6742]

“We are going to have a situation where Russia is reconstituting its force, is located on the borders of NATO” Well, NATO moved it's borders right next to Russia. So Russian aggression must be stopped. At all costs. 🙄

[@ЕвгенийМакаров-ф8р]

Yee, right. This "nato paradox" makes me laughing too.

[@munnychinni5386]

Same propaganda 😂😂😂

[@danielhutchinson6604]

G-7 nations used up their domestic sources of Minerals, long ago. Now they appear to desire Russian Resources..... That makes the conversation much simpler....

[@nicke0b]

G-7 nations have more minerals than ever before and no need for russian resources

[@danielhutchinson6604]

@@nicke0b You may need to review the needs of Manufacturers? I did a quick accounting one afternoon, and the apparent lack of resources in Western Nations, appears to indicate what motivates them to attack Russia...... I personally participated in shipping a lot of infrastructure out of the USA in the 1970's into the 1980's. Japan wants to buy out USS, You seem to listen to Propaganda a bit too much?

[@ro6742]

@@nicke0bthen why pursue this? You’ve drunk the Kool-Aid my friend. 🙄 Wars are fought for resources PERIOD full stop. Any war that is not being fought for resources is a sham war being used to enrich the elite. It’s about time people started realizing this.

[@mahendraprabhu1606]

Why NATO want to expand its border?. That is why Russia is also intent to expand its border to prevent NATO coming close to it. This is well known in all diplomatic circle.

[@missyaman7053]

Even Russia dropped their old school "we're invading Ukraine to prevent NATO expansion" propaganda. NATO are already there, let's quit the nonsense already. Russians are imperialistic, they literally tell us that EVERY DAY. Putin has already come out and claimed Ukraine isn't a real country. C'mon, keep up

[@4700_Dk]

So……………forever Wars ? I don’t hear about negotiating with anyone.

[@fluffy485]

He said that it was boring to talk about the 2 percent minimum for nato. WELL it’s not boring to the American taxpayer. We have funded the defense of European countries for 70 years. While Americans paid for your defense at a staggering (trillions of dollars) amounts of money,Europeans were busy providing national health care ! While Americans who don’t have free national health because of the billions it cost to protect Europeans countries. The free ride is over,increase your tax levels and pay for your own defense. America is fed up with paying your bills!!!!

[@rabinraj15]

Very unfortunate, but the fact of the matter is that over those decades it was the US’s Leadership & Foreign policies that structured such "modus operandi" as it wanted to have control... If only the US government focused more on the US & its citizens, invests more on developing industries, developing better welfare, infrastructure, etc... Imagine the quality of life it would've been?? 😅 Having about 900 military bases out of the US & continously getting involved & influencing politics of others etc etc at the expense of its citizens is simply irresponsible... It's time Americans learn to be responsible & accountable for their actions over the past decades because the world is fed up & millions killed & getting killed for no relevant reason!

[@jordizee]

You've paid for your own defence. Your nato contribution is no where near that.

[@JohnDoe-vo6uf]

imperialists worried about war>

[@wahtev]

Estonia, really?