NATO Training and Lessons from the War in Ukraine - Interview with General Ben Hodges (Ret.)

Sponsored by Ground News: Compare coverage to spot sensational content and identify the facts with Ground News ground.news/perun
How do you train an army to fight a war that is different from any you've ever experienced?
Support for Ukraine has played a vital role in shaping the progress of the war in Ukraine to date. Ukrainian efforts have heavily leveraged munitions and systems supplied by their allies - but training has also been a key area for allied support
Unlike weapon systems however, evaluating the performance of NATO's training efforts are harder to determine. Reporting tends to focus on the quantity of troops going through these programs, but less reporting focuses on whether the training properly matches the realities of the Ukrainian battlefield
To get a better understanding of NATO's efforts to train with Ukraine in the years leading up to 2022 and since the full scale invasion, as well as some of the lessons members of the alliance might be learning from the war, today I'm welcoming back retired US Army Lieutenant General Ben Hodges. LTG Hodges (Ret.) is a former commander of US Army Europe and engaged with Ukrainian forces extensively over his time in that role.
I'm very happy to welcome him back to the channel and want to stress that the opinions expressed in this interview are solely those of the individuals expressing them.
Patreon:
/ perunau
Relevant Reading/sourcing
ATP 3-01.81 Counter-Unmanned Aircraft Systems (C-UAS) August 2023
irp.fas.org/doddir/army/atp3-...
Reports referencing the wargame series leading up to the Ukrainian summer offensive:
www.washingtonpost.com/world/...
www.reuters.com/world/europe/...
www.lemonde.fr/en/internation...
RUSI - Preliminary lessons in Conventional Warfighting from Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine: February-July 2022
static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukrain...
RUSI - Stormbreak: Fighting through Russian Defences in Ukraine’s 2023 Offensive
static.rusi.org/Stormbreak-Sp...
Example of reported feedback by Ukrainians on the limits of NATO training
www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/...
“Inside the secret French camp where Ukrainians prepare for war”
www.politico.eu/article/in-ru...
Reuters reporting on US casualty estimate for Russian forces
www.reuters.com/world/us-inte...
Featured Reports and Image Sources
www.bnnbloomberg.ca/russia-hi...
www.ausa.org/news/will-fight-...
www.europeafrica.army.mil/New...
apnews.com/article/ukraine-ru...
www.army.mod.uk/news-and-even...
www.reuters.com/business/aero...
www.armytimes.com/news/your-a...
DPRK Shell quality
en.defenceua.com/analysis/dis...
Caveats & Comments:
All normal caveats and comments apply.
No financial consideration was paid in relation to this interview - though I did request that a charity be nominated for a donation after the interview was recorded
LTG Hodges did not exercise any editorial control over this episode as a whole, including my comments or the slides that have been included
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Opening Words
00:01:35 - What Are We Talking About?
00:03:37 - Lessons From The Battlefield
00:03:56 - Q: Ensuring Training Delivers Value
00:07:44 - Q: Training For The Environment
00:12:56 - Q: Keeping Up With Adaptation
00:15:56 - Q: Observers And Lessons Learned
00:19:41 - Q: Lessons So Far?
00:22:28 - Q: Wargaming and Assumptions
00:25:32 - Q: Training Pre-2022
00:28:08 - Q: Evolution Of The Training Mission
00:34:30 - Q: Training Efforts Post 02/2022
00:37:22 - Q: Higher Level Training Requirements
00:40:47 - Q: Force Regeneration
00:43:24 - Cohesion And Training As A Unit
00:44:36 - Answer Pt.2: Force Regeneration
00:46:09 - Training Program Abbreviation
00:47:35 - Evaluating 2023
00:48:21 - Q: Outcome Vs Commitment
00:52:12 - Priorities, Resources & THAAD
00:54:01 - Q: The Path To 2025
01:02:20 - Conclusion
01:03:50 - Channel Update

[@PerunAU]

Sponsored by Ground News: Compare news coverage and spot media bias with Ground News ground.news/perun. My genuine thanks to Ben Hodges for agreeing to set aside the time both for this interview, and for our discussions outside it. While there may be a temptation in some NATO or allied militaries to look at the war in Ukraine as an aberration that doesn't reflect what a peer-conflict involving NATO powers would look like - I think there it's easy to argue that the disruption and valuable lessons are very much there, and that the speed at which those lessons are understood and reflecting in practice is going to be a significant factor going forward. Not just in the sense that they will shape how effectively NATO and allied trainers can prepare Ukrainian recruits for the battlefield, but also in how quickly allied militaries can make the investments and changes required to adapt to innovations and lessons of the war in Ukraine. I hope you enjoy the discussion, and are prepared for a return to a more 'slide show as usual' episode next week.

[@user-pi9no6zn5e]

😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@theragingjewishhippi]

Just a heads up, you're actual name is used during this interview.

[@stringypond53]

Another great vid John (44:39 ;))

[@riskinhos]

why deactivate captions? some people are deft you know. it's sad

[@harryg9976]

Just something to note - I think you may have left your first name in the video a little after 40 minutes in one of Ben's responses. Begins with a J.

[@AkiseAk]

It is still amazing to see how this channel went from let's plays to interviewing US Generals

[@jeckjeck3119]

It's beautiful, we are blessed to have Perun.

[@tucoramirez9557]

Our lad is moving up in the world. And he deserves it! ❤ And what a great choice of interviewee! Honestly, each and every 1-hour power-point presentation by Perun has been very informative, reasonably grounded and explained. I still can't believe someone with that much skill and personality spends so much time for the benefit of some internet regards like us.

[@cwallcw]

Well a former general who can’t find a camera to look at, but still ;)

[@MrZombiekiller23]

amazing how many people trust someone thats been so wrong on everything and just repeats the same thing the propaganda says...Hodges came on because he's vindicating Perun's unpaid propaganda, giving him access so he can keep up the 'war effort'. You can call this channel US state media now. I'll admit this though, this is the most modest and realistic Ben Hodges I've ever seen in any interview, usually he's pushing the government line so hard he sounds silly but here he acknowledges the struggles they are having. So I at least respect that he's aware of the problems but he is entirely divorced from the correct solutions needed imo

[@sabiti5428]

​@@tucoramirez9557Perun and real-lifelore are really out here doing college level courses on geopolitics.

[@mrz3r012]

You can really tell General Hodges enjoys speaking with you, Perun. It blows me away the kind of questions you ask and the fact that this is free. Thank you for all your hard work and for lending your bright mind to educate us. It is deeply appreciated

[@0xKruzr]

totally agreed, it's still amazing to me this is free. what an incredible interview get combined with his usual highly professional, detailed analysis.

[@johnbaker4246]

Hodges really does love spouting BS to Perun. He really has no clue how the war is actually going.

[@Cokehead_Drug_Addict_Zelensky]

@@0xKruzr The only other place you can get this type of high quality warpig defense contractor shilling is the Institute for the Study of War website run by the Kagan-Nuland family.

[@usernamearrg]

He probably really appreciates getting meaty, military based questions like Perun's after the many, many interviews that ask the same, very generalized questions. Either way, I love listening to Ben Hodges talk about Ukraine.

[@Cokehead_Drug_Addict_Zelensky]

@@usernamearrg Today the Washington Post removed the 'Ukraine War' tab off the front page of their website as they gradually gear up to spin what is obviously a loss into some kind of face saving "victory" in yet another failed US proxy war.

[@medeology4660]

5 march 2022, I clicked on an obscure video called "All bling, no basics", because I was in a state where I lost both sleep and any connection to the humans in my life while reading and watching EVERYTHING related to Ukraine. Almost two years later now, I feel like that video was the first lecture in a university course I unbeknownst to myself enrolled in. And I enjoy it immensly. Some months after that first video, I also discovered that my son was watching as religiously as I, and since then it's a Sunday thing in our house, where he calls out "MOM! Perun just published!" and I go: "YEAH I KNOW, I get the notification too!" It's kinda weird and really great. So, thank you so much.

[@schumzy]

i went through the same loss of connection to people at the same time for the same reason. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one. and yes I have been watching pretty much every post.

[@Cokehead_Drug_Addict_Zelensky]

You watch defense contractor pr0n with your son? 🤮

[@Inkkari9]

Nice father and son time, its sweet.

[@medeology4660]

​@@Inkkari9Mother and son 😊

[@hermanthenakmuaygerman]

Thanx for the hint where to start 🙏🏻

[@anaxis]

Gen. Hodges was in charge of our corps when I was in Iraq, and I saw him a few times in the DFAC; but his bird flew over our hooches often. It was easily recognizable & almost always had gunship escort. He was one of the only general officers I never heard anyone complain or make jokes about, which was also memorable. Good times.

[@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590]

You mean the unprovoked invasion of Iraq?

[@orkinho1]

@@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590 One might even say illegal too¡¡

[@user-yb6xv7xk2t]

Knew him as Col Hodges when he was the Corp G3 DirOps, lost track after 06, did he ever get a combat command or stay admin the rest of the time?

[@kirikoo9981]

Fighting poor militias cary rpg and Kalashnikov doesn't qualify you as a fighter.

[@JohnAugustSydney]

@@kirikoo9981 The writer doesn't claim to be a fighter, it does not invalidate their personal experience, any more than I would invalidate the personal experience of one of those people the writer was fighting against.

[@henrygibbons2354]

Perun has become one of the leading journalists of this conflict, covering aspects of this war in depth and with consistency, nuance, objectivity, respect, and a dose of snark that is most welcome in an age of sound-bite based media and 250-character Xeets (Xits?). I send a big “Thank you” to Perun!

[@KenM_1987]

I love Perun as much as you but he is mainly an analyst, not a journalist

[@henrygibbons2354]

@@KenM_1987 Fair enough. But that beats being a pundit any day.

[@morgothastartes]

objectivity is bit of a stretch, Perun is Pro-Ua pro nato pro west orientated, and that is fine but he is not objective

[@cinderball1135]

@@morgothastartes Nah fam, he's pretty objective. As he's said from the very beginning, it doesn't do pro-Ukraine people any good to ignore Russia's strengths or Ukraine's weaknesses.

[@drunkenthoughts6072]

@@morgothastartes He have opinions, but his takes are very objective. As some have said, he is an analyst. His shittalk will be mostly directed at the Russian, but for the meat of his content he never outright calls the russian monkeys or completely inept beyond what they have shown. He never glorify western equipment over eastern beyond their actual effectiveness. His very recent videos are even about debunking western(and eastern) "game-changers" even.

[@markcameron360]

It’s interesting to see how many systems that were regarded as obsolete, or soon to be decommissioned based on changes in military philosophy, yet are suddenly finding continued relevance and requirement.

[@theleva7]

As usual it's gonna go as it did so many times before- those with budgets and the will (US, China, Japan, South Korea, maybe some multinational EU effort) will pour the money into r&d to get some new thing that will be better than old solution, field a standardized version in numbers (US, China, S.Korea, Japan) or gold plate the shit out of the platform and adopt 13 different localized variants (EU) while everyone else will use what they can get

[@mitchalvarado2777]

Not to be too flippant, but we built these systems based on what other arms manufacturing nations said their equipment could do (at least when we couldn’t get their stuff to test for ourselves), we based our training on what they published (or we discovered) they were training to do, and we filtered all that through our collective moral compass so that we would win with minimal risk to our people.

[@Wehra96]

We can’t take too many lessons from this however, a NATO vs Russia conflict would be a significantly faster pace war and NATO obviously relies mainly on aircraft to do the job.

[@skywillfindyou]

@@Wehra96 Yes you can. There are capacities of aircraft and longrange tech for big scale war like Russia vs NATO, either it will spent fast and reserved and used in samll proportions. You would'nt also be able to use it freely like in other wars as sides have means to defend form it, and losing such can be costly as some models are are just in 2-digits quantities. So such war will face a long front anyway coming to what we see today. You can even say it is already Russia vs NATO war in smaller version, as NATO gave its tech, training and support, and even men unofficially, and stuggles to provide with more. So biiger war would mean NATO countries restructure economies for war and Russia doing actual massive mobilisation and also shift ecnomy to wartime completely.

[@romailto9299]

​@@Wehra96 it will depend on whether the Russians manage to largely negate NATO's air superiority as Ukraine negated Russia's, which they probably will. And then it's back in the tanks and trenches

[@markoutlaw7702]

When Colin Powell moved to Secretary of State, he briefed the staff there about training. His first comment was during his time in the military, he spent about 25% of his time in training. After logistics as a critical element of success, training is next. One of the most important comments I took away from General Hodges interview was how you must build your training system to be able to learn from the students. A reverse flow on the concept of “Train the Trainers”.

[@bunsw2070]

The US and NATO uses KZbin for training Ukrainian soldiers. They actually know nothing beyond insurgent warfare. No joke. And it's not going to be a joke when the electricity goes out for good in the west because our society is run by mindless morons. I work in heavy industry. The scale of the incompetence in our "experts" is beyond belief. These jobs are going away and they're never coming back. All meaningful knowledge is being lost and it's too far gone to reverse. Keep getting your boosters.

[@gmw3083]

And then Powell made the fake WMD claims for all to see, and eventually lost all credibility. The same will be Hodges future...

[@nataliiateteruk585]

In contrary to Russian military academics that ONLY go from top up to broad down in orderway. Never to take subject own iniatives.

[@Oshidashi]

Thanks for that comment. I now see opportunity to apply this reverse flow of the concept in my (non-military) business.

[@davidelliott5843]

In WW2, Germany and Japan lost their air wars because they failed to rotate out their most experienced pilots. New recruits never got to know the details of fighting the war and soon enough those who did were gone. Hopefully Ukraine is not falling into that trap.

[@Teapode]

Saw Ben Hodges 100x, but that interview style is the best I've ever heard. Sound like oldschool BBC interview, when transition parts are replaced with commentary, important parts are picked up so good. Brilliant. If only popular broadcasting had same level of interviewing, and not their quick, emotional engaging interviews made by scriptwriters who spents about 5 minutes on the topic.

[@brapbrapson944]

The difference between the Ben Hodges in this interview and the one who goes on nightly news channels is striking. It’s almost like he has to dumb himself down and simplify concepts so that 5 year olds can understand them when talking to news anchors. Here, it’s clear why he was in the position he was and his genuine intelligence and experience

[@CapnDan57]

Thanks for this one. General Ben has been the most forthright commentator regarding Ukraine for years now. Too bad he's not in charge of the US response.

[@alfiedeegan1895]

😂😂

[@Feffdc]

Isn't he the guy who said that Ukrainians would occupy crimea by the end of August?

[@dannydxm]

​@@FeffdcI think he is. Ever since the war started I've heard this guy being quoted on various news channels basically saying that the Russians are done. Fast forward tot he present moment and it doesn't seem like any of that is coming true 😂

[@Feffdc]

@@dannydxm Not only his predictions didn't become true but true experts like Markus Reisner paint a bleak picture for the future of Ukraine

[@saltzkruber732]

@@FeffdcMore spesifically he said they would be in a position to do so. He and everyone else would also have said in 2021 that Russia would overrun Ukraine like the Us did to Iraq

[@Nmille98]

Seems like he was a leader, not just a commander. Or at least, was a commander smart enough to recognize his force's own shortcomings. Very insightful interview, I was actually surprised when he admitted and pointed out areas the US comes up short in.

[@francojustthat156]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXqah4Ggmsp3ja8&ab_channel=smoothieX12

[@spooks5780]

One of the biggest things that is almost never talked about is how well documented the war in Ukraine is. There’s thousands of hrs of combat footage floating around so I wonder how exactly military’s are approaching and utilizing this gold mine of recorded experiences, if at all.

[@Humphreyat86]

I agree. The foreign militaries may not have people there, but there's more video footage available than for any other war. The relationship between the video footage & the real war is probably like Facebook lives vs real lives - curated, but at least there's information which you can read between the lines.

[@Teney1994]

War on the Rocks had a podcast where a reporter said that Ukrainians said the UK had observers at the front while the US doesn't have any, he said that it's crazy that they don't.

[@jacksoncronin9540]

​@@Teney1994I would assume the U.S doesn't "technically" have any observer's on the ground due to political reason's but they would have asset's and correspondents relaying information back. The intelligence services are definitely involved, not too long ago the C.I.A released a video targeting Russian's for information.

[@simonschneider5913]

most are too delusional to take advantage of this wealth of information. it hinders the narratives and the money-flows...

[@josephmann6675]

Ben Hodges impresses me every time I see him. The fact you had to donate to a charity in leu of him taking a fee? Kinda says it all after that interview. Truly a quality human being. A general who listens to sergeants and looses sleep over the wellbeing of privates? You’ll never do better.

[@jackthorton10]

Every likewise General has to to make the tough decisions but also values the integrity and willpower of his men, for they are just as important as the men behind the frontlines, and we do well to remember that

[@francojustthat156]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXqah4Ggmsp3ja8&ab_channel=smoothieX12

[@awannagannaful]

So you're ok with this guy using Germany as an example on how to defeat Russia? Never mind how they were sadistic evil Nazis, and how many UAF soldiers use thier SS symbols today, how about they got utterly defeated and their country is still occupied by foreign forces today. Is this your idea of 'defeating' Russia, really???

[@HanSolo__]

I mean, that's why we took him to Europe. But come on, he stayed. I think he lives in Germany.

[@nian60]

I wish Ben Hodges was still a commander in Europe. I hope the current leaders are listening to him. Thanks for the interview.

[@NightridingDoom]

the reason he can say that is because he is retired. Let's be honest, russia is not the only one with blind military problem

[@nian60]

@@NightridingDoom But he is saying it. That's why I wish Ben Hodges was still in charge. At least then we'd be part-way towards where we should be by now. ("We" meaning the collective West).

[@zurielsss]

I doubt the leaders will listen to him if he is in charge, or he can make congress approve money and equipment aid arrive faster. The current systems in place will limit his will

[@amadeuz819]

@@nian60 Yep you really need to improve like every NATO member should at least have 100 Heavy mortars, 100 Artillery Systems and a years ammo per 1m population. 5% of the population as war strength and 0.5% as peacetime strength. So for example Finland with 5.5m people should have 550 Heavy mortars, 550 Artillery Systems, 27.5k peace and 275k wartime. :P

[@nian60]

@@amadeuz819 We're not in NATO yet. (If we were in NATO, Ukraine would have Gripens now). But I agree, every EU country is behind militarily. As an EU citizen this is very frustrating. Finland probably has something close to that though. Finland is one of the few EU countries that takes defense seriously.

[@elizabethsproule5227]

This is awesome. Perun knows the right questions to ask and he has teased out answers from Ben Hodges that I haven't heard in any of his other talks.

[@nicolaasstempels8207]

Yes, exactly.

[@mollirodhaet7224]

Lots of skill requires lots of skills. Perun obviously has many.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

In Hodges first interview he complimented Perun on his interview skills and the depth/specification of his questions.

[@davidjones6389]

His book on Future War in Europe fills in the blanks.

[@arround1]

The main lesson is probably that with 40 leopards and 80 Bradleys without aircraft, you cannot penetrate the defense line that has been built for more than six months

[@jackthorton10]

Exactly

[@nevisstkitts8264]

Not just without aircraft ... but the opponent does have aviation and electronic warfare overmatch.

[@jackthompson6296]

The main lesson is that the number of vehicles doesn’t matter when there are so many land mines that if you stacked them they would reach the moon.

[@jackdbur]

Especially when those minefields are 1\2 km deep or more. Even a fully functional combined arms western force would not like to assault the Russian defensive line you would have to gain air superiority & do thousands of air strikes to assault through without horrific losses.

[@everypitchcounts4875]

Ukraine was offered A10s but they rejected the offer. Stating that they were outdated and pieces of sh!t compared to what Ukraine was already using.

[@troyedson-smith5026]

Adding my sincere thanks for Perun University. Having General Hodges on was also terrific. For some time I've been a big fan of both of you.

[@mikedittsche]

General Hodges is such a bright minded and knowledgable person, who can see the bigger context as well as the details in every situation. Always a pleasure to listen to his analyses.

[@uzivatel56]

Amen

[@CharChar2121]

I prefer the interviews with Petraeus, myself.

[@dirgsuite5546]

Yes, now he only has to learn to see things from the Russian perspective and we have a chance to resolve the conflict.

[@mikedittsche]

@@dirgsuite5546 🤡

[@kalervolatoniittu2011]

If you listen carefully,you can hear words like: would,should,i warned of this months ago etc.

[@HenryKlausEsq.]

Gen Hodges opening statements shows how considerate he is. Refreshing to see (ret.) top military brass being thoughtful and so willing to see things from Ukraine's position.

[@dirgsuite5546]

Yes, now he only has to learn to see things from the Russian perspective and we have a chance to resolve the conflict.

[@osric1730]

@@dirgsuite5546 Really, and how exactly is that going to happen? Because the Russian perspective calls for the complete subjugation of Ukraine and at the very least the annexation of 4 of its Oblasts and Crimea. And for what exactly? "Assurances" from the Russians? We tried giving the Russians what they wanted with Crimea, It didn't work. There is no reason whatsoever, given Putin's explicit rhetoric, to suppose that giving him what he wants now would make any difference, or result in anything more than a pause in the war. In what parallel universe does Ukraine have any security whatsoever if it "disarms" and relies on Putin's word for their security. You're either disingenuous or out of your mind.

[@anthonykaiser974]

​​​​@@dirgsuite5546Russia's perspective? Nobody's interested in lies and excuses. Nevermind every post-USSR NATO member perspective on why they asked to join. It's exactly why Ukraine wanted in NATO in the first place, and Russia just guaranteed Ukrainian resolve to do so in 2022, if they hadn't already in 2014. If Russia wants their perspective considered, they should consider that of their smaller neighbors first.

[@cades93041]

well he is retired and therefore more able to have ideas like this. Active duty gen. seems more short sighted and stuck in the system.

[@worldeconomicfella3228]

@dirgsuite5546 Leave that kind of stuff to the Ukrainians. Half of them are native Russian speakers and their special forces, partisans and Russian opposition are hiking all across Russia as if were the Russian Civil War.

[@mattfitzgerald7836]

Thank you Perun for another highly informative and interesting interview. And my thanks to General Hodges, both for this interview in particular and for his continuing articulate and well reasoned support for Ukraine in general. Slava Ukraini!

[@joeelliott2157]

I second this thanks. Thank you General Hodges for devoting your time to provide us with more information and your perspective on the war in Ukraine.

[@GM-a]

Go to the front

[@corvanphoenix]

It just clicked how great it is that you two did this. That Gen.Hodges knows & trusts you enough to give you a candid interview, is a tribute to you both. Thank you very much! I'd love to see you & fellow Aussie Mick Ryan have a similar chat. Like Gen.Hodges, he too is a retired high ranking officer & tireless proponent of 🇺🇦.

[@moritzlaszlo3115]

Impressive interview! I hope that some decision makers in the US listen to this man. He seems to be more humble and considerate than many US military guys.

[@occamraiser]

you can hope - but the people supporting the Kremlin are doing so because they are pro russian (simply because Biden isn't) so they will not see this as anything other than an enemy talking about how to defeat their friends in moscow.

[@Bruno_bm151]

Usa lost 2 wars under his leadership, he got fired as a cia director after having the shorte st serving the history and he said that ukraine would be in crime by august, this guy is a yes man who will say anything for popularity. And i forgot he is the owner of a British government sponsored think tank

[@davidelliott5843]

Hodges puts the current US and NATO military leaders to shame.

[@Bruno_bm151]

@@davidelliott5843 by his sheer power of being a populist

[@dirgsuite5546]

Yes, now he only has to learn to see things from the Russian perspective and we have a chance to resolve the conflict.

[@Pilvenuga]

clicked on this when i saw it posted 10 seconds ago, already 4 comments Perun being popular is an understatement.

[@RobinTheBot]

So happy to hear him start right in. We have been so arrogant in the way we handled Ukraine. We had everything to learn, everything to give them, and did neither.

[@marrs1013]

Learning is a process that is happening, no doubt. Giving is another matter: realizing how thin the reserver are in the West, just opened our eyes, that there is not much to give! The West must have reserves of material. And first the production has to be geared up to ensure that we still have a growing pile of material, before serious shipments can be made. A rude awekening, if you asking any Western leader. An awekening, not every politician wants to do...

[@kylewhite5695]

Glad to see Hodges back, and it’s nice to see an interview where both sides are prepped and immensely knowledgeable on the topic.

[@johnvissenga328]

Thank you to Perun and to General,Ben Hodges for an engrossing and informative presentation. I have followed this channel since "all bling" and really cannot thank you enough for the education I have received

[@judithbradford9130]

ditto, cubed!

[@1337flite]

Ben Hodges has been one of the best talking heads of this conflict. He's obviously qualified and a very thoughful man. His ideas about victory conditions seem pretty logical and thought out. We need to cross our fingers and hope that the current and future leadership political and military are as astute.

[@huntergatherer7796]

All his predictions have been wrong from the very beginning. He said Ukraine would be overun within weeks after the conflict started.

[@zenon7094]

​@@huntergatherer7796The whole world greatly overestimated the state of the Russian army...nobody could have known fur sure that it was all just hype and propaganda because nobody could correctly verify the official Russian informations.

[@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311]

He's been full of shit from start to finish. He's part of the problem. Clowns like him have encouraged Ukraine towards a path which is destroying the country.

[@IncomitatusExcelsior]

​@@huntergatherer7796 Almost everyone, including many Ukrainians, said the same. So that's hardly a fair criticism.

[@Eleolius]

He's darn good on Ukraine. Though, he's very myopic on the core issue of US National Defense- that is, he focuses disproportionately on the Russia threat over the much larger threat actively killing more US citizens per year than Ukraine is losing in combat per year, three years running now, and he isn't very attentive to the larger threat posed by China. The US has allies in the EU/NATO alliance that should, if they ever took Russia seriously (they still aren't doing so yet, outside of the UK, Poland, Finland, Baltics), be able to handily support Ukraine to it's full requirements without any further US assistance beyond some satellite and ELINT assets. The EU is the party threatened by Russia currently, not the USA in any kinetic and direct sense, so they should be footing the bill, and thus far, most of them simply are doing a lot of talk and not a lot of the work, as per usual in NATO. He completely ignores US domestic security and actively works to talk well outside his area of expertise by blaming Republicans for actually caring about US national defense where -actual American Lives- are being lost, and the very stability of the Republic are being undermined by ignoring the ballooning messes in Latin/Central America, from that neglect. I do not know his views on the Middle East, where the USA has suffered almost 100 major attacks against US forces, and only minimal response of any kind has been mounted- to growing casualties and deaths, quietly swept under the rug by the political administration and party he clearly supports/prefers. However, his analysis on Ukraine, those other elements aside, are quite solid. I just wish he'd demonstrate the big-picture competence he is lacking in, which he -clearly- has a high level of small-picture, theater competence in thought and analysis.

[@Cubcariboo]

General Hodges is a very smart man who has the almost unique ability among his peers to set ego aside, admit to his mistakes, and never stop learning. His hunger for knowledge and eagerness for problem solving are personality traits that contribute a great deal to his success. IMHO. 😊

[@trendnwin6545]

LTG. Ben Hodges is a great man with a great heart for Ukraine. Let us never forget the heroes who Defend Ukraine. Slava Ukraine!

[@carolwilliams8511]

Heroyam Slava 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

[@davidjones6389]

Check out his book on Future War in Europe. Illuminating.

[@exharkhun5605]

This is such a change from the "oh look at this stupid thing the ruski's are doing!" BS you see in so many places that I then have to block or ignore. Denigrating and underestimating your enemy is about the stupidest thing you can do. It gives me a lot more confidence when someone points out what the enemy is good or smart at.

[@ExtraRice365]

Good point. If I'm in a fight, I'd hope my opponent underestimates me

[@sergiyrospysdiyenko6224]

Well, all russian war machine is rotten and corrupted, more care about money then "patriotic war". But its vast country, has big mobilization resource with a weapons left from soviet times, so no need to underestimate them....

[@hairharbor5080]

@@sergiyrospysdiyenko6224 Ukraine is entirely dependent on their draft and foreign aid. Also huge corruption problems. Ukraine and Russia are more alike than people like to think....

[@jackthorton10]

More alike maybe, but their is larger difference on the will and way of a country defending their land than marching with pride to liberate the country of supposedly righteous reasons

[@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo]

And Hodges was one of the main characters underestimating the Russians. According to his statements this spring, the Ukrainians should have reconquered Crimea by now.

[@fcalin21]

Congratulations for having general Ben Hodges!

[@benlowe7089]

General Hodges is refreshingly humble for a man of such obvious knowledge and wisdom.

[@ElementalNimbus]

Wow, you got Gen. Ben Hodges back! I guess I'm not too shocked since he seemed to actually really enjoy your first interview, especially compared with the normal news folk he has to deal with. Glad you did though, he is great and always has a nuanced and complete view of the situation.

[@cho4d]

ben hodges is a national treasure imo. very knowledgable and well spoken

[@fionaryan631]

Yuss I'm still awake when perun released his video. (1am). And awesome to hear you and Gen Ben Hodges together. Thanks for your time and work Perun.

[@matthewriffel188]

This is a great video among many great videos. I am very grateful for General Hodges’ and your own advocacy for Ukraine and attempts to bring real analysis and information to a disillusioned and mistrustful Western audience. I only wish my own government (United States) and those in Europe would also hear you both out. I’ve been watching your PowerPoint for almost two years now, and try to see what General Hodges is doing on KZbin when I can. I wish you both good luck and further success in fighting the good fight, and for all you do. 🇺🇸 🇺🇦

[@haldorasgirson9463]

What a wonderful way to make the most of an interview. What a breath of fresh air. Excellent pace, logically organized for maximum comprehension. Watching one of your episodes is like taking a history class from a really gifted teacher. Well done Perun. Did you ever see anything this in your future when you were covering video games?

[@truckerallikatuk]

Consumption rate of ammunition in a sustained war has been a shock to the system since records began. Every time there's a period of peace, that lesson has been forgotten and no balance has yet been found.

[@jackthorton10]

The saying of better safe than sorry always seems to be forgotten every time

[@grahamstrouse1165]

True. Just-In-Time doesn’t work with 155 mm ammo…

[@sixstringedthing]

How does a Chief of Staff of the Army convince a politician to convince their incumbent party to convince the entire nation to accept the insane costs of production needed to churn out artillery rounds and PGMs at the rate demanded by a sustained war during peacetime? A "peace dividend" is worth fuck-all to society if you spend it all on ammo.

[@nihluxler1890]

Not for the Russians apparently. They can churn out 5 million artillery shells a years against Nato’s less than half a million.

[@adissentingopinion848]

I think it's also so alluring to see absolutely massive stockpiles of ammo measured in acres, only to realize that supporting artillery operations puts that on a weeks-to-months limit without production. SK has gotta be on another level in terms of my munitions, I would imagine.

[@bc-guy852]

Wow, Perun, you've really 'made it'... General Ben Hodges is the quintesential guest and one of the most qualified spokespeople on this set of War Crimes. Congratulations on getting him back again.

[@graceliu8839]

You didn’t know Perun interviewed General Ben Hodges before?

[@bc-guy852]

@@graceliu8839 hence "... back again."

[@dracoboomin6511]

Perun is an idiot. You dont need power points slides and 2 hours to explain Ukraine lost the war. I said this same thing back in 2022 while he was claiming that Russia was incompetent.

[@oldguy7402]

As a cold war air force vet, I really, really appreciate not only the insight into the care and feeding of ground forces and the changed nature of soviet training and mindset from my period to now.

[@bill13579]

Thanks for having General Ben Hodges on your channel. It was very informative.

[@awesomehpt8938]

I think the main lesson is to not have cowardly backstabbing politicians preventing military aid from reaching country’s that need it.

[@rikertvonfulton16]

As long as Americans are not paying for it and Europe is I agree.

[@wedgeantilles8575]

May I ask who exactly gave YOU the authority to decide which country "needs" it and which does not? We have a lot of wars and civil wars raging. Today as well as 10 years ago. And in 10 years we will have other wars. Why do YOU decide in which war we should engage? Why did we not do anything when the Hutu and the Tutsi killed each other by the millions? Did you care? To not care about Ukraine is completly legit and there is no reason why I should pay with my tax euros for this war, just as there was no reason why I had to pay with my tax euros for intervention in the war that Hutu and Tutsi fought against each other. You can vote for parties that want to engange in the war of course, that is totally fine. But you should accept the simple fact that not everybody views the world the same way you do.

[@Nmille98]

I truly do believe some are against aid because they truly feel it's to the detriment of the U.S. military and that the border is in an awful state (it is) and being neglected (it is.) BUT some are against it just because the Dems are for it, and sabotaging free people trying to protect their homeland just because your political rivals support them is despicable.

[@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311]

Here's a better idea, how about don't deliberately push a super power into the position where it feels so threatened it starts a major war in Europe

[@jackthorton10]

Ok, let’s just chill out and accept that their is various opinions on the way and will of warfare for various nations across the globe…

[@556MSL]

Great interview. Thanks to you and General Hodges.

[@carolwilliams8511]

Love Ben Hodges. He talks so much sense. 🇺🇦💛💙

[@krissteel4074]

Awesome, Ben Hodges is a bonus too!

[@Engineersoldinterstingstuff]

Fantastic guest on a fantastic channel. Thank you both!

[@Macdunne]

I appreciate your interview style where you ask open ended questions and allow your guest the time to expand on their thoughts. Very informative as always.

[@aussie807]

Thank you Perun and Ben Hodges, your professional, balanced work is appreciated.

[@SuperMaximus66]

Love him!! So humble. Go into battle with him any day.

[@aliancemd]

It’s nice to see some of them finally acknowledging that Urban combat training is not exactly relevant for what is mostly vast open areas, filled to the brim with mines and drones constantly watching from above for movement over those open fields

[@harryrosenthal4818]

Part of the reason why urban combat was de-emphasized was that Ukraine could not depend on Russia to make a “ good will gesture “ in Kherson and to withdraw to the left bank. This was a very savvy decision allowing them to give up land in exchange for a more defensible line of contact and to devote resources to improving defensive structures in the land bridge. This was not a foregone conclusion however especially considering the level of political oversight from Putin of the military process.

[@davidlanders2853]

Perun, your questions and General Hodges critical eye, experience and knowledge makes this a must see for those in the US Congress.

[@igavinwood]

Another quality production Perun. I dropped a like on this at around 250 and 3 hours later it's at 5.2k. The fact that you are able to get such a person as GA Ben Hodges to interview shows that the quality and respect for the content you produce is worthy of such a persons time.

[@mickleblade]

And 354k views 11 days in

[@ginojaco]

Very good interview and excellent insights offered; but, then, it was bound to be good since it was conducted by one of the best KZbin Channels and was with one of the best and most articulate military leaders of modern times. Many thanks to both. 👍

[@OpenmindedSourceClosedBeta]

Thank you very much for this interview! Your channel is truly one of a kind and I rely on you more than practically anyone else when it comes to strategic assessments of this war. It's not something I say lightly, so take it as a huge compliment!👍 I agree with General Hodge's assessment and am pleased that an expert like him confirms it here. Thanks to you too, sir!

[@Chris-bb2cb]

Awesome interview, thanks, Perun. And amazing Ben Hodges gave so much of his time. He clearly cares. Great to see a proper long form interview on Ukraine rather than all of the mainstream media's endless short sound bite coverage. We can only hope that the rest of America wake up and really support Ukraine to their fullest. Please keep helping and supporting Ukraine.

[@bobjohnbowles]

An outstanding interview. Thank you and Gen. Hodges.

[@mikedittsche]

YES! Here we go! You are making all of my sundays Perun! Thank you!

[@patf1288]

Do a video on bots, propaganda, information warfare.

[@rositasultana3958]

I subscribe to this initiative ❤

[@MeeesterBond17]

Seconded - I'd personally love to see a collab with someone like Oleksandra Tsekhanovska or Vlad Vexler, as their fields tend more towards analysing propaganda, political manoeuvring and information warfare. 🙂

[@MrNigzy23]

Nice to see General Hodges actually get asked questions that are relative to his profession. He's so much more engaged here and you can actually see him rack his memories for things (Guy has most probably forgot more than most people know.) compared to being asked the most generic questions over and over and over again by the main media. Gut interview. Enjoy it!

[@tipofthespear7182]

Thanks for this Perun . This has to be for me one of if not the best post you've done. Outstanding guest in General Hodges. He's so articulate and full of knowledge , I can listen to him adnauseum. 🇦🇺

[@okeydokey3120]

I'm always interested to learn all i can from Ben Hodges. Your questions are timely and well thought out. Thank you so much!

[@rositasultana3958]

Oooohhh!!! Ben Hodges and Perun! The irresistible combo of the year! Thanks, Perun, for your invaluable input on this matter. Slava Ukraini, and her courageous defenders!

[@carlswenson5403]

General Hodges, thank you so much for your interview.

[@wyskass861]

So glad to see you getting an interview with Gen. Hodges. He's been a consistent and clear voice to understand this conflict better and highlight the problems with Western point of view.

[@B1gLupu]

Something really reassuring about Hodges'es accent and delivery. Reminds me a lot of the brass during my military service in the Finnish army. I guess that calming demeanor is just something found on many career officers regardless of nation.

[@Danksta911]

Thanks a bunch. Whilst public interest in this terrible war and subsequent views of your videos decline a bit - you keep the quality up. Thanks, you rock

[@atfrench22]

Thanks to both of you and anyone that helped produce this, The zenith of open source media military logistics and strategy power point interview in the milblog KZbin space. Also the best military education source in the world. No one is educating the public about modern conflict on such a macro scale while remaining concise and funny as fuck…the throw away , ice cold, insight you drop is sometimes the best most context dependent humor I have ever heard. You are a talent and I would be Proud. In fact I think it is time that youtube recognizes the value you provide in combatting the garbage propaganda that slips through and put you on everyones feed every Sunday. I just love history and learning and history just happened …then and a modern context is invaluable in thinking deeply on many topics. What a time to be alive for an artist thinker,all the experiences (38M) all the time, with access for me?!

[@clmdcc]

I do like this type of interview, where you also add context to answers, to ensure information is shared clearly.

[@WoesteWobbe]

Thanks John for providing good journalism. You two are a good team. And Thanks for keeping this subject alive. Thanks from The Netherlands (Y)

[@darrena4048]

Yes, I noticed he let a first name slip through the edit too... assuming it's his real name.

[@Cokehead_Drug_Addict_Zelensky]

Dutch still butthurt over surrendering to Ratko Mladic watching this war with a vicarious stiffy LOL

[@LongPeter]

I did a double take when he casually said it. Realistically, there are plenty of people out there who know who he is. I’d just add: respect the man’s privacy. Purely entertainment-oriented KZbinrs get their houses fire bombed for throwaway comments. Don’t help the weirdos by publishing anything that isn’t commonly acknowledged in the channel content.

[@timsullivan4566]

Was comfortable clicking "Like" even BEFORE watching because not only has this site NEVER failed to impress... ...but I could say the same for interviews with Gen. Hodges.

[@gregturner1947]

I listen to nearly every interview Gen. Hodges gives on various media outlets. He has complemented Perun on several occasions for his insight and educated analysis. I am not surprised that he is enthusiastic about speaking to your audience. That is a very high complement. Thanks for having this humble but brilliant Texan on your channel once more.

[@kevynnedallaire1815]

*That is the best interview I've seen with Ben Hodges. Fantastic questions, and follow up, with enough time given for fulsome answers. As always, this channel does not disappoint.*

[@gimmethegepgun]

The part about erecting nets over trenches to protect from FPV drones immediately reminded me of torpedo netting. Using a net to protect against a low-velocity vehicle carrying an explosive, such low velocity that it can't punch through the net.

[@techfixr2012]

I absolutely loved this episode. Thank you

[@rabanvonstudnitz771]

Combination of General Hodges and Perun - it does not get better than that. Thank the two of you very much!

[@kennypridemore5466]

Perun yes ! Ben Hodges ?? No ! .... he's just another ignorant general in the pot of ignorant Generals in the US and Europe ..... they've already made so many mistakes in this Ukrainian war and they are not even doing the fighting ..... and they are learning from this war ????? What ? What do you mean learning ????? ....they are the ones who are supposed to know !!!! ..... thats what I mean by ignorant Generals

[@ngreen1596]

This is a brilliant and badly needed analysis. I hope Western military people pay attention to it and learn some valuable lessons. Thanks.

[@JayMaverick]

Could listen to Gen Hodges for hours.

[@gregwatkins2525]

Thanks guys always happy with what you guys bring to the table as far as good and bad with the way this is going thanks Ben for giving us your Insight wish the both of you a happy Christmas Slava Ukraine

[@burakertugrul2]

General Hodges and Zaluzhny are the most appreciated people in the War in Ukraine. They are realist and brilliant generals.

[@ledzepandhabs]

Brilliant generals? If you consider constantly losing and not able to take on the Russians and win "brilliant," well then there ya go.

[@slopat2503]

Thank you both.

[@josephsteven1600]

Thank you so much sir LTG Ben Hodges.

[@MikiCab1]

Congrats on getting such a high profile interview with Hodges

[@moxie_ST]

Great video 👍 Many thanks to both of you, the general for participating and you for inviting him.

[@Versatilty]

Amazing job, great interview love Ben Hodges

[@ydrts_915]

Wonderful interview. Would certainly be interested in seeing more interviews on your great channel in addition to your (pretty much unique on KZbin) in depth discussions of geo political/economic topics. Keep up the awesome work!

[@thefisherking78]

OMG Ben Hodges!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉 His insights on Ukraine are among the best

[@user-yj8vj3sq6j]

Yeh, too bad he's always wrong :D

[@thefisherking78]

@@user-yj8vj3sq6j found the bot 😆

[@lennartmeyerstenfjeld9473]

These interview videos give great insight and a different perspective on the conflict. A great addition to the other video types. Thank you for all your hard work, Perun.

[@MrTylerStricker]

Love when there's a guest for Perun to pose his questions to

[@Goals764]

One thing that I'd not want to argue is NATO training, it's perfect and very effective I was being trained by them during my time in military experience, Germany, UK, Finland and Sweden which will join soon, absolutely great I got alot of tactics and knowledge that helped me in my life time and battlefields. Perun much appreciated for offering and continuing such amazing podcasts, my favorite our hero perun from Australia.

[@OniksR]

Yes, we saw this efficiency as they fled from Afghanistan at the sight of farmers on donkeys, and in Ukraine they are also very effective.😀😀😀

[@drunkenthoughts6072]

@@OniksR Yes, the same efficiency in afghanistan that squatted there for 2 decades after completely taking over and rebuilding the country, who "fled" because getting shot for 2 decade straight rebuilding a country who refuse to rebuild isnt fun. And indeed, the ukranian farmers are very effective, who knew farming tractors are good towing vics for tanks? The same ukraine who are still holding more than 75% of the country despite fighting the neighbouring said to be "5th largest military". 🤡🤡🤡

[@davidshea6272]

@@OniksRYou can crow about Afghanistan when you have a successful campaign there. How did the Russians do again?

[@OniksR]

@@davidshea6272 I am Russian. Russia fought there for 10 years with the Taliban and after the Afghan government left, it held out for another 4 years, well, not 5 minutes.

[@davidshea6272]

@@OniksRand you achieved your objectives while you were there? Or did you pull out your soldiers and watch the proxy government you'd spent years propping up collapse like a souffle?

[@SaoJun]

Thank you, Perun. For the consistent uploads & quality content.

[@rustyheyman214]

Perun the content is great especially for an Emutopian. I am impressed what a stand up guy you are along with general Hodges. Doing this and putting in the work and donating the money because it is the right thing to do. Much appreciated.

[@wpatrickw2012]

I have a feeling that Ukrainians will be frequent guest lecturers at West Point and other western military academies for decades to come.

[@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311]

Sure, just like Zelensky is going to be a welcome guest at the White House going forward... or maybe not.

[@Humphreyat86]

​@@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311Ukrainians will be welcome trainers & visitors at Military academies around the world whatever the politicians decide.

[@qZbGmYjS4QusYqv5]

@@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311 yeah-yeah, oh that eveeel Natsie Zelensky ruling America with Hunter Biden's help

[@timthetiny7538]

Unlikely.

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

@@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311 Because, you know, it's so selfish to ask for help when you're invaded from a country that's your ally and has the means to for pennies on the dollar. While US Congresspeople bitch about the imaginary "threat" of Drag queens.

[@ruZsiaNa-C]

He was my former Commanding General before retirement. Great guy

[@entropyachieved750]

Wow your getting to interview some top brass! Such a great channel and reputation for doing comprehensive deep dives

[@huntergatherer7796]

Well Hodges is blacklisted from major news shows since he is always wrong and lies about the conflict. He stated Ukraine would be in crimea by end of 2023. 😂 He is a Ukraine shill.

[@richardbennett8522]

@@huntergatherer7796 Like Ritter Tucker Carlson and Macgregor are pro Putin shils and expect Russia to win.Try harder vatnik

[@Humphreyat86]

Such emptiness when it said 2 replies. Someone must be reporting them.

[@Zine2me]

Thank you for sharing your excellent work here with us.

[@doitdiddy]

Ben Hodges, the best person to analyze the Military situation in Ukraine.😊 Awesome interview- Thankyou for sharing Perun.

[@cliveashleyhamilton]

Perun is a tough interviewer, he should do a lot more of it!

[@up4open]

JMS WW2 does a regular discussion of the war. He made a good point that Ukraine needs to be aiming to Standardize new troops. Capabilities need to be understood in advance so that teams can plug in all points with the same expectations of gear capability and training specifics.

[@aasss4146]

Thank you both for your continued dedication and expertise!

[@johnbaker4246]

Isn't this the general who said Ukraine will be to Crimea by fall 2023?

[@vaughanbean1156]

if the Ukr were given the right equipment, which they weren't.

[@johnbaker4246]

@@vaughanbean1156 That wouldn't have changed anything.