Necromancer, Ringbearer & Shire Legions Tier List - Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game | MESBG

[@DunedainDadGaming]

I love Depths of Moria haha and I totally agree with where you placed it. The biggest thing is not breaking until the balrog is at half wounds. In a lot of scenarios that tends to help stretch the game and gives the Balrog a few extra turns of combat before the game ends. This is a big deal, because he's not winning every combat, but he's so strong that even a few more chances at combat make a big difference.

[@metascrub285]

Honestly comparing the extra rules the belrog got in this legendary Legion, the breaking rule seems better then baradur since the belrog has alot more wounds. Haven't faced belong legendary but have played and seen saroun in action. That breaking rule can be ridiculous at times.

[@metascrub285]

How is lurtz that high. One of the worst legendary Legions, cirith ungol is definitely alot better the lurtz . Necromancer is also alot higher then fellowship. It's immortality with terror can be super oppressive for some armies. azogs legendary Legion is interesting. Don't know if it's fully better then his two normal armies.

[@intothewestpodcast]

We are probably a bit biased with Lurtz's Scouts like we said because one of our local top players has used it to great success including winning the one of the largest tournaments in North America with it. -Richard

[@wilhelm992]

Any videos u would rec to watch about such scouts? Sounds fun af!​@intothewestpodcast

[@intothewestpodcast]

@@wilhelm992 not at the moment, but that's a good idea. We'll have to try to get them on the channel for a batrep at some point!

[@wilhelm992]

@@intothewestpodcast that would be fantastic! Great stuff guys, keep it up!

[@punchyMiddleEarth]

Solid work lads 😎

[@giovdb]

Vanquishers demolishes black riders 1v1. I think they should have been ranked above black riders.

[@metascrub285]

I also think necromancer should of been ranked Valor. That stuff can be oppressive at times if you can't kill the necromancer the immortal nazguls grind you out to quickly.

[@sharbie9540]

You’re right that Vanquishers win the head-to-head, but Black Riders are much better at winning a variety of scenarios into the field than Vanquishers. Even into the Vanquishers, they still win a bunch of scenarios into them thanks to much superior numbers and mobility. And they can win the combat, they just need to do so in the first couple turns before Fortify Spirit is up on everyone

[@giovdb]

@@sharbie9540 I don’t think there’s any scenario where Black Riders can reliably beat Vanquishers. They are worse in combat and magic. Their mobility means nothing because that’s just extra mobility for Vanquishers to compel them closer to them. Even before fortify spirit goes up, they already get resistant to magic with +1 to resist. And I don’t think there are more favorable scenarios overall for black riders over vanquishers (against other armies I mean). I think it’s about the same.

[@strangersun7721]

We had one of the very good players in our local group use Lurtz's Scouts for a three month long league that played nearly every scenario in the book. He got repeatedly stomped lol. We all came away thinking it was a pretty garbage LL except on some Maelstrom scenarios.

[@giovdb]

I’m also surprised how high they rated it.

[@intothewestpodcast]

It's definitely a tough army to play, and we probably shouldn't have based it off the one player we know that made it work. But I figured if you can win Adepticon with it, it must at least be decent?! 🤷🏻‍♂️ -Richard

[@jmaccsarmiesofArda]

My Balrog always does absolute sh1te when I play depths so my feeling dont align with the rating xD

[@intothewestpodcast]

🤣 fair enough!

[@andrewpalmieri2902]

Great video bros! My vote would have been to include pits in the Legend tier. Since you play 800 mostly it's fair to put in Valor but at 650 or below they are incredibly strong. They're also a natural counter to dragon legion which is worth mentioning.

[@tedarnoldmoore]

nah hobbits are way better than the breaking of the fellowship

[@intothewestpodcast]

I think I can agree with that, shire should've been higher. -Richard

[@bathlizard5400]

Played Vanquishers of the Necromancer in a tournament recently at 800pts. Got Reconnoitre round 1 (no veto system). Lost against a Rivendell list that had 42 models. I lost zero fights and took zero wounds. I was 3 models away from breaking them. Opponents mounted Elrond ran off the board before I could panic steed and compel him.

[@lukesenyshyn4886]

Hot take I like Lurtz LL much more than Ugluks LL

[@nielsschreiber5293]

Hobbit LL will smoke the rangers. do not forget the hobbit shooting and throwing stones. The D3 really hurts the elves. basically it is your 20 shots against 30 hobbit bows plus later on a tone of throwing stones.

[@upperplus7953]

No Legendary Legion managed to get to the Legend Tier :D

[@thgsMASK]

Btw if the ruffian legion has to go to independent because something has to because otherwise it means nothing, then surely black riders have to go to Legend for the same reason? my inner pedant couldn't handle that sorry xD fun video guys as ever

[@intothewestpodcast]

Haha you got us there!

[@giovdb]

You guys vastly underestimates the hobbits. They don’t move just 4”. They have plenty of Heroic Marches. They’re moving 7” in any scenario that requires mobility. They’ll beat many armies to objectives, and once that happens, it’s pretty much game over. They only easily lose Killy scenarios like lords of battle or contest, but with veto, this is a strong army. I’d say low valour. You just don’t see them a lot because who wants to drop thousands of dollars then paint 100+ models?

[@intothewestpodcast]

We probably put it a bit low, I agree but I don't think it's quite as good as you are saying though. The 4" is not just about getting up the board, it's about threat/striking ranges and also getting in favourable combats once the lines clash. It's very obvious that Dwarves are at a huge disadvantage due to their 5" move and they also have access to a lot of Marches. -Richard

[@giovdb]

@@intothewestpodcast Good points, but what I mean is that when hobbits march, that’s a huge horde moving forward. If they can reach an objective first, it’s very hard to displace them in a timed tourney, especially if the hobbit player takes their time moving and then later rolling dice with 100 models to throw stones. It’s the ultimate stall army without actually stalling. You can literally win the game after a march or two, and then running down the clock. Not to mention they can take forever to set up and go over all their trap rules. And for the record: I hate this army with a passion. I’ve payed against it a few times and it’s awful. But the player usually ranks fairly well in our local tourneys, especially since he can veto the 3 scenarios he’s bad at.

[@killingsmalls6356]

Enjoyed the video, I think a lot of players who want to play kite think of bows but kite is more from throwing weapons imo. To fill that gap I wish there would be a LL where there is no spears but bows got to be throwing weapons for a turn when charging in. Maybe with some initial combat bonus'. (Or something in this spirit).

[@GollumGamers]

Ian catching strays from Charles at the end 😂😂

[@grimgrauman7650]

Free heroic combats are much better than master of battle for azog. He already has 6 might to counter stuff and Master of battle is not that insane good as all people say. In most games you only get to use master of battle like 3 times and then you don't even get to do the heroic move first, so it does not matter.

[@grimgrauman7650]

Master of battle ist still great as an rule, but not that powerfull. And Azog does not need master of battle like the other heros with it.

[@intothewestpodcast]

It's more for the counter strike off, it's extremely off putting when you out fight heroes at f7 and they really have to think of they should heroic strike against you, usually it's still a yes otherwise they die, and you get a free counter strike.

[@grimgrauman7650]

@@intothewestpodcast i know but Azog does not need master of battle for strikes. With 6 might you can call all the strikes you need in a battle. But calling heroic comats every turn gets you empty quickly.

[@SonsOfGondor1]

The trick I've found for the Rise of the Necromancer Legion is to lean harder into Castellans than Ringwraiths - roughly a 2:1 ratio of Castellans to Ringwraiths gives you a nice balance of staying power (Castellans, who still don't die quickly) and tricks/Might (Ringwraiths). 2 Castellans without blades is only 5pts more than a Ringwraith, so it doesn't change your points cost very much.

[@intothewestpodcast]

Good advice for the Necromancer! Btw, happy your article just dropped on the Lurtz's Scouts, we are getting torn apart in the comments about this Legion haha but we also have seen first hand the success it's had.

[@SonsOfGondor1]

​@@intothewestpodcast That Lurtz Legion requires patience, but it's good. :-)

[@sebastiencarrieres8825]

For the Shire! Hobbitses are definitely Legend tier!😂

[@sharbie9540]

An enjoyable video, although I disagree pretty strongly with some of the placements. Firstly, Breaking of the Fellowship is really quite awful, probably not that far above the Ruffians. I took it to a friendly tournament recently and even against very weak lists it kind of struggled. It felt like the Vanquishers, but without the tricks or the power. So you’re generally behind from the start on objectives, and you don’t have the muscle or magic to reliably come back from that. I also found it super dull to play, and that’s from someone who loves all-hero lists. The Shire is also much better than you’ve ranked it here, although it’s hard to play. It’s taken out a lot of tournaments down here in Australia; the shooting means you can win killing games, and the numbers and ambush deployment means you can win objective games. Shockingly hard to beat when piloted well, easy Valour. Lurtz’ Scouts are quite overrated here, they struggle in way too many matchups. Big-medium heroes are an issue, Terror is absolutely crippling, Elves are a nightmare, hordes are actually pretty scary… the numbers are never quite as high as you’d like, and the lack of spears just bites so hard. Finally, Pits is easily in the top three legions ever, and is an easy Legend. You’re right that it doesn’t scale well past 700, but being arguably the best army in the game at 500-700 points and then fairly solid above that is surely still worthy of a Legend.

[@intothewestpodcast]

Fair points, thanks for sharing your thoughts! We’d like to revisit all the legions with a reranking at some point. -Charles