Is Computer Science still worth it?

[@TheCodingSloth]

My bad for leaking your interview question but uhhhh when will I know if I passed

[@NeetCodeIO]

Don't tell him imgur.com/gallery/pepelaugh-QPAzwbY

[@shrek95372q]

bruh

[@riteeshacomputerscience4862]

pepeLaugh

[@VillasanGamer]

Breh

[@dumbol8126]

how many times does one have to follow up and be ghosted before declaring that they got rejected

[@Saintthorn]

If computer science degrees end up useless, I don’t even know what I’ll do with my philosophy degree….

[@w花b]

What do you even do with that aside from being a professor? Genuine question because it feels like some pyramid scheme

[@veerpatel6719]

Philosophy degrees aren't useless. I don't know why many people support this. Math and philosophy are like the best generalist degrees you can get. Timeless expanse of knowledge and understanding

[@Saintthorn]

@@w花b I basically got a job as a data analyst self taught, lol

[@bnlbnlbnl]

Idk shit about philosophy but that seems like it'd be a pretty solid degree, I feel like those kinds of skills could apply to a lot of jobs

[@Saintthorn]

@@veerpatel6719 It did help me get a job as a data analyst. Learning programming on the side. Played for a joke, but it’s definitely how you use it that matters. Also, logic and reasoning in philosophy is a big part of why I could make the switch.

[@logman3455]

My problem with degrees and stuff is they are truly over valued for what is actually provided. Most professors nowadays could be replaced with a well formatted lesson plan and book recommendations.

[@Tanvir1337]

this tbh

[@duckymomo7935]

I thought about that and that is generally true if you're interested in only content which to me most people only go to college for however for any educator worth their salt, insights and other things such as that are far more important I was reflecting on my degree and am like idk why I thought this was so difficult or hard

[@zo0oi_574]

Exactly, You can learn in 2 years at most what you have learned in 4 years, and for the 2 years left, you can specialize as SWE, data analytics or whatever.

[@shindoxxx]

A pdf of the course book and a few lecture videos are enough to replace the physical classroom and the professors, however if you do that, dumb society will think that you are not smart enough to go to college.

[@thaRealShady1]

I do not agree. At least where I went to school I learnt a lot. There is a big gap between people who get their degree and self-taught swes. There are so many different advanced topics in cs. Sure you won't need all of them of you just work on tickets, bit it certainly helps to have a very broad knowledge once you get into more advanced positions.

[@TwinBnotTwinA]

He makes getting a fast food job seem way too easy. After all the Big Tech rejections I tried the fast food route and got rejected or ghosted there too 😅

[@kokoro212]

Yeah, I heard this one too. My sister's friend were unlucky getting a job. She tried for the fast food, but they rejected her because she has a degree.

[@purpl3grape]

@@kokoro212 can't she just lie about having no degree?

[@jl_117]

yeah I remember Starbucks and McDonalds rejected me 💀 But its certainly easier compared to the amount of applications you need to send out for white collar jobs

[@ccricers]

Interesting thing about Starbucks.. they can help pay for college. But I don't know if it is good for most colleges

[@aisosaobano7038]

It’s the sad reality of having a degree. Especially if you are fresh out of college. Now you’re in the job hunting limbo of having little experience for the degree you have and being overqualified for jobs that don’t need one. 😢

[@mistersir3185]

When you're on your way to make it through a 4 year college studying CS, one thing you'll realize is at least one professor you'll meet is 100% a SADIST, 100% I guarantee you!

[@NewTypeVietnam]

this is true. freshman life last year showed me similar experience.

[@sloshedtrain]

It's pretty much guaranteed.

[@marcoaguilera6751]

Very true

[@bilguunbayasgalan8763]

Only 3 passed class of 40 students calculus 3 in my calculus 3 class lol

[@rohitsinha1092]

true dat

[@s8x.]

it’s gotten to a point where a masters degree in cs is now the new normal

[@chaos9790]

there needs to be more gatekeeping

[@datastatacian]

masters with no experience is still useless

[@fabriziopecerosgarcia7430]

Why a master degree, when you can get a Phd 💀🔥🔥🔥

[@bluekrazykris]

@@jamad-y7m I'm doing my Master's right now( just started this semester, and graduated last semester with Bachelors ), while trying to land a full-time role. Applying like crazy with resume tailoring. During my time in school, I landed multiple interviews, all of which went to the final stage, but never landed anything. I swear I'm getting teased, these companies simply coming up and tickling my balls with these interviews without giving me the job.

[@funicon3689]

@@bluekrazykris usually 3-5 ppl are making it to the final round for each role and they just pick the perfect one

[@Inkarnid]

It’s easy to look back at a CS degree and feel like you could have learned everything yourself. However, people forget that our high school system promotes a lot of memorization and doesn’t teach most students how to learn things efficiently. You’re going to college to learn how to learn and being provided with a curriculum to follow. It’s going to be a much easier path with a CS degree and if you went the self taught route it’s going to be very difficult unless you are one of those people that knew how to learn things out of high school. In that case you were gonna be successful no matter what you do.

[@vetur3495]

on the other hand like mentioned a bunch in coding sloths video, there are a lot of amazing resources on learning how to learn, I think the most challenging part though is realising that you don't know how to learn

[@MangaGamified]

If I understood correctly, going to college/highschool is learning to learn, something that barely changed nor barely use any resources, gets more expensive every year. College in the Philippines is bloated, we still have Religion, Jose Rizal, History² and Physical Education(which is extremely debatable) ²which is useless since government are still corrupt. tl;dr: the intent was nice, but you extremely over estimated college. Feel free to agree to disagree.

[@Inkarnid]

@@MangaGamified I went to college in Canada. High school is a joke everywhere which is why most people go to college because high school prepares them so poorly. College doesn’t necessarily prepare you for the real world in all aspects but it at least gives you a framework for thinking and learning things which is extremely useful once you know what you want to do.

[@nile7999]

all the courses university students take are online anyways and free

[@WhizPill]

Basically

[@remixisthis]

As someone who has been working at a FAANG for 5+ years (Veteran path), you have one of the most honest channels out there

[@NeetCodeIO]

really appreciate that

[@FStars-wm3sd]

@@brianfrommars Veteran path basically means u thought it yourself

[@junyaiwase]

@@brianfrommarshe means he learned by himself with no degree backing

[@MrQwakums]

@@brianfrommars as a veteran myself he is clearly talking about the veteran path meme in the video, good luck going into IT with the cert

[@brianfrommars]

@@MrQwakums Yeah I meant to delete that a long time ago. I actually just got Sec+ certified today lol

[@AD-wg8ik]

A CS degree is essentially being used as a filter. Hiring teams are being flooded with so many horrible applicants, to ease the process many will simply throw out your resume if you don’t meet the CS degree criteria. Unfortunately, that means talented devs are being tossed out. Your chances of getting a job is reduced significantly without the degree, regardless of your skill level. That’s the harsh reality, not impossible but improbable for most.

[@Joshua.Developer]

Just start your own business IF your a developer. In the end if you can solve problems for companies your golden. If you can get $3k in a month you just replaced the average waged job.

[@Dom-zy1qy]

This is why I'm getting a cs degree. Literally, just to not get owned by ATS. But you can get them pretty fast & cheap online if you know the stuff.

[@Joshua.Developer]

@@Dom-zy1qy I'm coding out a job board to make the ATS useless and resumes. There has to be a better way

[@G2rtTr]

Completely agree. While it is true that CS degrees do not hold the same status as they used to,nowadays it is pretty much a "requirement" to have one in order to compete. It does not guarantee a job, but it lets you at least have a chance. Your skills,projects and experience will make the difference at the end,but the degree is necessary to have a chance.

[@duckymomo7935]

honestly, if you're a talented dev, you can just go to any cheap uni and get any degree doesn't have to be CS and it will get you through

[@kate_g-s2s]

9:09 I love this quote by Jason Statham: "Education is what remains after you forgot everything you learned in university". Pretty sums up the topic.

[@Noah-ik6yv]

This is a quote by Albert Einstein my dude

[@IllIllIlIIlIllIllI]

Elon musk really nailed it with that one

[@darklordsauron3415]

“Never allow schooling to get in the way of my education”

[@Anonymous23681]

Ah yes, classic Shakespeare right there

[@mars3122]

I'm an art major watching this video. I'm exponentially more fucked, but I just wanted to see how you guys are doing, too. We're in this together.

[@Descart-lw1nu]

yes lad, our Gen is fucked

[@zyclopzzarts]

Art Major here, unemployed for about 4 months T_T, currently learning zbrush to add some extra skills. Kappa this times are really F UP

[@sankyu3950]

​​@@zyclopzzartsAYE welcome to Zbrush!!!! I just got done learning Zbrush from my own for like a month just so i can 3d print anime woman figure

[@dovakeen1179]

Ya..... AI has shafted you in the creative department.....

[@mars3122]

@@zyclopzzarts Lmao yeah, I work a fast food job while juggling school and personal creative projects. Sometimes I wonder if "breaking into the industry" will ever be something I can achieve and jumpscare myself with the vision of staying at this fucking burger place forever. Can't really do anything except continue creating and doing your best.

[@Ronfosh]

I remember in 2019 I took an introduction class for beginners and every single person there, knew how to code so well already. That’s when I realized market was over saturated.

[@sendysent]

That’s the exact year I switch from CIS to MIS and a cybersecurity minor. People in my coding class already knew how to code. My high school did not have any coding classes. I was cooked.

[@bedtimestories1065]

It's saturated with beginners. There is major demand for experienced staff.

[@bernoulliseqn9885]

@@sendysent yep, I regret not getting the opportunity to study programming because my school then did not have a computer science class, rather they called it'IT' where I kid you not it was the tech admin guy responsible for the maintenance of our servers who came in, opened his laptop, told us to do whatever the hell we wanted to, and then left after 45 minutes. I sorely regret on all that time that was wasted wherein I could have learned a useful skill in my teens. I ended up taking mechanical engineering, and although programming is not used as extensively as compared to CS, I got royally screwed when I took an undergrad computational fluid dynamics course in my 3rd year where most of our assignments were programming-based. Nearly flunked on the assignment problems if it had not been for my friend who introduced me and helped me out a bit on Python. I started learning programming ever since then. I sometimes wonder back then and even now why some schools don't even promote programming education. It really helps a student in terms of there logical and analytical thinking. Crucial skills if you end up pursuing a STEM degree.

[@ugood]

"Harvard undergraduates believe that inventing a job is better than finding a job" -- the Social Network movie

[@plaidchuck]

I mean that's the whole US mantra of entrepreneurism

[@camgere]

There is a huge difference between being an equity partner and being an employee. When you are an equity partner, the other employees are leveraging your income.

[@youMatterItDoesGetBetter]

My job dropped all entry level positions, we use AI in our workflow. Even if coding stays around, the salaries are dropping back down to reality. The tech bubble of 2020 is ending. Now everyone wants to be in Cyber Security... which isn't entry level lol.

[@Vezvein]

Luckily Jesus is coming to rapture the church soon. We are on the cusp of nuclear war, the psalms 83 war, as well as the Ezekiel 38 war. Israel is building their third temple and the star of Jacob is set to appear again this year. It will be hell on Earth for 7 years. Most of the population will die within the first 24 hours of the rapture. The US economy is unsustainable collecting over a 1 trillion dollars in debt every 118 days. Everything you know about this world is a lie.The KJV Bible is the only truth you will find.

[@inmortal131]

Jesus 🫥

[@humanyoutubeuser]

Modern companies using AI, slop in, slop out

[@trisopie]

@@Vezveinyeah a lot of people are bots and don’t realize the America could crumble in 1-2 years, still paying taxes (not like u don’t have to) still going to college as if this “American Dream” thing is gonna carry out for another 20 years. Feel bad for those who are gonna have a major ego death

[@ma.2099]

@@humanyoutubeuserone of my professors husband is CS. His work place dropped every single entry level position for AI. Going to be every entry spot soon. AI and mechanical tech being a one time payment and then works without days off or without having questions, will 100% put younger people out of a job. You have to become absolutely excellent in the most human type of activities (music, art, blue collar jobs, sports). I’m not even sure stuff like law and medicine will escape AI/ technology.

[@任家佑-h9n]

People just don't realize that education itself is a profession. I am from Taiwan, I have been to MSU(only for a short period though) and from what I saw, there aren't that many differences. In both places professor really struggles between teaching and researching. In Academic your publication IS your currency, university hires professors based on the metric of publication and reseach experience, not educational performance. So of course some professors are just not good at teaching.

[@w花b]

Well it's a dichotomy between prestige of publishing papers and forming talented student to give that same university prestige and hopefully also have them doing research for you.

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

The whole system is just sadly primitive and an example of inertia in human thinking...

[@malcolmn.5222]

No... education without a plan is no different than doing anything else in life without a plan. People just assume if I do X then Y will happen. That has never been how things worked. So many people go to college with zero plans and complain when they can't find a job in a specific field. A philosophy degree is not worthless, getting a philosophy degree with and no plan on how to apply said degree will render it worthless.

[@investingfeed8971]

Michigan state??

[@zo0oi_574]

Yeah, some of them at my university only wanted to become researchers, which makes you end up watching more KZbin videos

[@procrvstinvtion8479]

I'm a woodworker and a metalworker who's recently started self teaching programming. I have been bombarded with videos of why right now is the worst possible time to get into this stuff. Unfortunately for them, I love this stuff!

[@ismbks]

i know a lot of people who used to work in software engineering/tech and are now self-employed woodworkers/artisans but i have never seen the opposite, how come you decided to change paths?

[@procrvstinvtion8479]

@@ismbks Working 12 hour shifts that start at 5AM and take place in a warehouse that doesn't have AC and is 90 degrees was hell. Your body gets broken from the labor. It was cool to build physical stuff and see that stuff in stores you shop at, and it's really nice to have the skills, but the trade off just isn't worth it imo. Plus the whole death aspect. I've gotten very lucky that I didn't die about 4 times in those two careers. A "badge of honor" of sorts when it comes to woodworking is missing a finger. All that for $25 an hour.

[@rishavkumar7133]

@@procrvstinvtion8479 don't stop

[@96merluzzo]

@@procrvstinvtion8479 keep doing that, I believe you'll find a job with enough determination

[@joeAnon796]

I worked in a woodshop before too. This is a great time to learn tech especially because you can always sand doors later.

[@LeeK301]

Besides getting my first job, I think the best thing college / my CS degree did for me was teach me how to learn things on my own.. particularly in my senior level classes.. but to NeetCode’s point, i went to school with people who cheated everything and generally didn’t know basic things like what a constructor for a class was; I truly believe that the degree doesn’t make you; however, it DEFINITELY can enhance you if you use it the right way. It all depends on your own motivation as an individual. I just happen to be someone who generally loves software engineering.

[@logan_wolf]

"generally didn’t know basic things like what a constructor for a class was;" Are you kidding me?! How am I competing with people like that, and losing?!

[@Dagothdaleet]

I have a degree in philosophy and a minor in finance. This is very true. There is a skill of how to learn that is attempted to be passed on college. Sadly, many people are there believing you just need to get the paper

[@LeeK301]

@@logan_wolf luck, opportunity and timing my friend… lol trust me..

[@kanucks9]

I am starting to hate hearing people say this. How exactly did university teach you how to learn? Was there a class about it? Of course not - what you mean is "Their instruction was so inadequate that I had to learn on my own, and in the process, I got better at it" Why give them credit? You might as well say "The best thing about college is that there is a curriculum with deadlines. That way, you can't procrastinate too much" Except that's actually true lol.

[@ismbks]

>given a female population fem of size n find a girlfriend hardest leetcode question i have ever seen

[@joeAnon796]

@@ismbks return None

[@HonsHon]

Well, we can see it like you are finding a girlfriend for a person. In this case, yourself So, here is a beginning code snippet to help simplify the outcome. This is just a wrapper function. The girlfriend() function will be the actual loop through the population class Person: def find_girlfriend(self, for_who: Person): if who == self: return None return girlfriend(for_who)

[@stoppls1709]

​@@joeAnon796beats 1%

[@ritsukasa]

if it's just an algorithm, let ask for unrealistic data to have, otherwise how are you supossed to answer that asignment. Like asking every female to score from 1 to 10 if they would like to start a relationship with you and picking the one with the best score. Its trivial. There is an algorithm called "stable marriages" that for a population arranges couples in which nobody cheats, at least no pair of man,woman will want to cheat because at least one of them prefer their partner, that is more interesting and a normal problem, solvable with more or with less brute force.

[@jerrymartin7019]

O(4EverAlone) time complexity.

[@gaworap]

It's surprising to learn that in the US, you often don't need to write a substantial scientific paper to earn a Bachelor's degree, and in some cases, even for a Master's degree. In contrast, I spent around 150 hours working on my Bachelor's degree project in IT engineering, and then another 150 hours writing my thesis, which incorporated references to about 20 other scientific works. The whole point of higher education in Poland is to produce a final scientific work.

[@plaidchuck]

Well to be fair a US bachelors compared to the european model is basically 2 years of GenEds that are normally covered in a high school equivalent for most university bound students in other countries. So if you spent 4 years in Uni in europe you were actually doing graduate level work

[@CimmerianAssassin]

You can usually shorten your masters with a thesis instead of doing like 3-5 more classes.

[@amynguy]

we have a final year design project for engineering majors

[@MangaGamified]

What if everything was already invented or researched?

[@Alsry1]

​@@MangaGamified basically cannot happen, you can always conduct research upon existing research.

[@nathanbutcher7720]

If they wanted to interview you, they think your skillset is already good enough. Beating the interviews is done by making the employer feel safe and comfortable about their decision to hire you. It's literally not based on anything else. You are not selling your skills you are selling them on a decision they are struggling to make. If a degree makes them feel safer about hiring you, then honestly why not?

[@fud0_0]

thanks for this advice

[@bfkgod]

Why not? Um, tens of thousands of dollars?

[@JDKDJDOZO]

why not 4 years? I think making ur projects for 4 years is probably a lot stronger reason to hire you

[@CadianSneed]

I wish you were right man...

[@nathanbutcher7720]

@@CadianSneed Yeah well at first I wouldn't believe anyone on the internet either offering free advice

[@mikeorioles]

This channel single-handedly saving my mental health, a video at a time. I went back to school for CS, my second degree, in my late twenties. I'm now a senior, and this question keeps me up at night. I delayed my career for 4 years, and busted it to get where I am. The thought of it not yielding a job is horrifying.

[@ashharkausar413]

I'm 32 currently going through college. I was recently thinking of pivoting into computer engineering cuz of how the market is. But I am genuinely passionate about CS so I will stick to it. If I suffer, I'm ok with it.

[@joeysung311]

how’re you doing with it?

[@MangaGamified]

@@joeysung311 He was very attentive and respectful, and delivered all of my orders of Mac and fries.

[@scythermantis]

bro join your local Socialist political party The system is the problem People will tell you "no one owes you anything" FUCK THAT We gotta change the world yo

[@EdwardHohenheim]

​@@MangaGamifiedlmaoooo

[@roz1]

Believe me I'm a Firmware Engineer Myself working at HP ... OS, Computer Architecture, microprocessor and microcontrollers and Computer Networks are the topics that I require almost every day... The problem is developers are blinded by abstraction just too much abstraction (js libraries and stuff) that they will never understand how things work internally, I play with low level stuff on a daily basis. Knowing some libraries will make you replaceable with AI.

[@MangaGamified]

Maybe someone will invent an AI who to 1nvest to, and when to bail out before loss/deficit, since 1nvestors are the only thing they seem to care for, since if all companies use AI to save money, then no one can buy from these companies, soon they'll all just be software for logistics for basic neccessities like food, clothes, shelter, internet, etc. Maybe when the gov increases the tax for AI products to encourage human employment and increase UBI.

[@roz1]

@@MangaGamified very good thought process ... But let me assure you AI won't be able to replace human engineers doctors lawyers ....

[@MangaGamified]

@@roz1 Yeah, but not everyone can be, engineers -doctors- lawyers, on second thought, maybe many can be doctors cause of the aging population. If medical school will be affordable for your average local citizen.

[@abrahamdsl]

@@MangaGamified I believe Wall Street, like the firm 'Jane Street' has been doing that for long already

[@MangaGamified]

@@abrahamdsl which part?

[@dan-cj1rr]

My University in Quebec actually has cs degree and software engineering degree. I did engineering degree, a mix of CS and real engineering projects, we built fullstacks app in team and even built an autonomous robot with other engineering degrees (computer, electrical). Glad i did this.

[@M.V.T.H.]

Very french 😂😂

[@olirob7706]

@@M.V.T.H. ohh bin tabarnak

[@subatomicmolecules]

Quebec universities on top!

[@xdeathcon]

My US university had the software eng degree as well, and it covered industry things pretty well. Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to get a job.

[@Emperor_famous]

​@@xdeathconhow long have that been

[@kameraderz]

before covid, generally it's easier to get a job, unless you applied for big tech companies. I remember back then I applied randomly, and got many calls. nowadays, I do the same thing but what I'm getting mostly are "unfortunately" e-mails, lol

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

Probably need more differentiation at this point... Companies are short of cash, and have to be more careful about hiring.

[@kameraderz]

@@Leto2ndAtreides blitzscaling eventually causes a lot of problems. never a sustainable approach, but as long as it brings in quick cash, it becomes a trend. I bet even adam smith would do a long facepalm seeing this circus.

[@imdeadserious6102]

Great so either way I get in now or keep learning for a few years and have it super easy when the swing into growth is back

[@ChipsChallenge95]

“Before Covid” you mean after Biden lol

[@Jeff_189]

@@kameraderz What's your thoughts on Marx's views on jews?

[@Kdogggz]

My friend with a CS degree was laid off 4 months ago, could not land a new job and decided to just go back to school for an MBA, it’s tough out there for Tech right now

[@juamont]

Te problem is seeing university as a place to learn things only. University is about networking just as much as for learning, it gives you the oportunity to network with people in your field

[@tux_the_astronaut]

This!! Main reason im going to college is to try and network most of what I’ve learned so far has been from teaching myself

[@moabd7575]

i studied 5 years (yes its 5 in my country not 4), and yet i am barely finding any jobs. just some local companies that gives 200$ a month (i am not joking lol)

[@balsonga]

Arg?

[@jumper8875]

@@balsongaQue será, que será? 😂Fácil dedujiste el país.

[@benzemamumba]

Formal education alone is NOT enough.

[@jumper8875]

@@benzemamumba true

[@youcefdz5598]

i bet you're from algeria , if not then it must be an other 3rd world african country

[@zangetsuha]

A couple years ago I would have said CS degree is useless and you should just go bootcamp/self taught path. In fact I was about to do that but opted for CS degree since I was dumb and lazy, couldn't do anything without guidance. Looking at it now, having the degree is probably a requirement just because supply of devs is much higher than demand. There's just so many applicants for every role that now more than ever employers are probably just using the easiest filter of them all: CS degree.

[@IhsanMujdeci]

Personal story, I literally self taught myself by reading "learn python the hard way" the summer after completing my 2nd year of an I.T degree where I focused on business analysis and networking. Final year I took 3rd year programming courses and suffered immensely to the point where I had no life at all for that year but I got through it. I was working as a security guard and strangely converted that into a final year project where I made a scheduling system for them. From there I worked for them a bit more and got into a crappy company and worked my way up switching jobs.

[@IhsanMujdeci]

Edit, just got a job in a major bank in Australia.

[@xixiangliu8516]

What disappoints me the most about the current computer science degree is that the overlap between what the industry demands and what I had to learn and do to earn this degree is very low. As a result, I have to figure out how to teach myself the full set of skills required for job hunting on top of dealing with the heavy academic workload, which is extremely hard, and almost impossible unless I were a genius or I had started very early.

[@darklordsauron3415]

That’s what college is. It’s theoretical knowledge that beaches many scopes, if you wanted practical one goes to trade school.

[@kanucks9]

​@@darklordsauron3415oh yeah let me go get a programming apprenticeship, and they'll pay for my 2 months a year schooling until I become a journeyman developer. Wait a second...

[@mwwhited]

for those using stack overflow stats ... two things to remember. Stack overflow is used by good people that are bored with their job that enjoy trolling noobs and not taking surveys as well as noobs that have no idea what they are doing.

[@lihclore]

facts stats can be so misleading lol

[@johnprice6805]

Oh..you haven't seen the dark underbelly of the University system. Its like hunger games for everyone that isn't a tenured professor. And the cycle never ends.

[@cheesetomeetyou]

It's very sht for sures. Chatgpt is a better teacher and it's free. College gives you a bit of structure and basically "forces" you to study by giving you an extra push/pressure, but other than that, it's a complete waste of time and money. But of course it's the only way to get the credentials. They also make classes artificially difficult. I even had an accounting professor that said "I have to make classes stupidly hard to make sure not everyone gets good grades. If too many people do well, I get in trouble". Wtf. It's more about surviving than actually learning.

[@lennylinn6275]

@@cheesetomeetyouyep used it to help me learn to code do math and all sorts of things kept the examples and I use them like a tool box

[@Sued3y]

@@cheesetomeetyou At NYU our intro to CS course made all the exams handwritten...while not extremely hard it just artificially creates difficulty and is very cruel towards students.

[@TheIceLurker]

I don’t know why I’m watching this. I’m 30, life is over.

[@aryanshah4703]

Brother how is it over. You are 30 and young.

[@journeyto100channel2]

Bro I’m 30 and in middle of my Associates degree Majoring in Computer Science. It’s never too late

[@hans2129-o9v]

30 isn't that old for a change, 40 is when its over.

[@parkerbear1812]

Insane profile for a 30 year old.

[@cheesetomeetyou]

@@parkerbear1812Lmao

[@KohanaCoyote]

Got a degree, don’t even use it in my new job. I gave up finding a developer job when everything went south and just got myself a cushy public service job instead

[@GhostSamaritan]

What kind of job? 👀

[@tonyh1345]

i have a finance degree and the only thing I can land is working sales

[@Bromon655]

Sounds boring.

[@Jeremyak]

I feel like the major benefit of a degree is your prospective employer has evidence that you have the minimum self discipline to follow through on a semi long term goal, which is pretty good to know. It doesn't say much about your actual skill level but it's a good start.

[@Charles12]

thats always been the purpose of a degree really. the only problem now is that doesn't seem to be enough anymore.

[@IllD.]

The best thing from uni imo are tests and exams. Hot take, but if you're self studying the hardest part is making sure you are learning the subject correctly and that you remembered the information. Best way to do that is through exams and tests, which aren't easy to find in online resources.

[@lihclore]

i agree, i took calc iii last sem and the tests made me LEARN to LEARN the material. junior now graduating next year with better skills in learning things now

[@JetJockey87]

Studied CS Sold my services as a Dev while studying at Uni. Learnt / Earnt more doing it that way than the Degree so I figured I would just drop out after 2.5 years. Used my experience in my own Dev Studio to land a job at a small software design consultancy. Got experience with them for ~ 20 different clients, Govt, Private, all kinds. Small projects, large projects, sprint, waterfall, agile, scrum, jira, kanban, scrum poker, jira, standup meeting, sprint retrospective, jira. Did that for 4 years. Got enough experience to be considered Senior Consultant. Moved to a Corporate Tech Job. Hated life within 3 months. Got headhunted as a Data Architect. Life is easy now But it was a hard journey. And every day is a new problem. Persistence is key.

[@bassdgod1]

congrats, hows the pay as a data architect?

[@paijwa]

If 99% of people wouldn't have the 'perseverance' to do all this just to get a job. Then you have what we call survivorship bias

[@plaidchuck]

With no degree? Press x to doubt

[@lusane24]

what did u do to get clients for ur online services?

[@Th3-Mast3rmind]

​@@plaidchuck X Even if OP is telling the truth, his in the very special 0.1% of individuals. I've never come across a solutions architect who does not have a CS qualification. In fact, I've never seen a company advertise such positions without having a CS qualification as a prerequisite

[@pharoah327]

Prof here. Some of the stuff said in the video was incorrect about universities and profs (although some stuff was very accurate). I would love to be on your show and talk more about how universities operate. People don't understand the restraints we are under nor the impossible task we have when attempting to get you ready for industry in 4 short years. Is it perfect? No, but many solutions that seem obvious at first really don't work in practice. Anyway, I would love to do an interview with you if you are up to it.

[@0xdawg754]

That is why apprentice systems exist

[@vladvlad1767]

Self taught software engineer here. No degree. Start to getting a job for me was 9 months. So far I've survived two rounds of lay offs in two years. I get shit done, go above and beyond expectations(working 35 hours a week), and receive endless praise for my efforts. The average company isn't FAANG. I don't believe myself to be some sort of genius. I was a total slacker at school.

[@petaflop3606]

@@vladvlad1767 you think 35 hours a week is above an beyond?

[@oceeta]

Hi. I'm pretty interested in hearing what you thought was off about some of his thoughts in the video. From my perspective as a CS undergrad, it seems that professors are simply too choked for time because they have to find a seemingly impossible balance between teaching, research, and their personal lives. These are all easily full-time commitments by themselves, so it is no wonder that the education at university can't be as comprehensive as some people would like it. This would then lead to a lot of stress, which the system as a whole is not necessarily built to address.

[@WMDB4637]

Doesn’t matter. At the price points degrees are sold at you better get people ready for industry. If it has problems that you acknowledge then stop charging ridiculous prices

[@joeAnon796]

I finished my CS degree over the summer. My Software Engineering professor literally made us learn agile/scrum from a YT playlist. 😮‍💨Now I will say this in favor of schools, if it wasnt for having a deadline and exams those videos would still be in my watch later playlist. I think my personality is more in line with the twitter kids. Leetcode/problem solving is fun but I have even more fun making the stuff.

[@thegodfatheram]

Hey this is interesting can you share the playlist

[@sharif47]

At least you learned Soft Engg from some YT playlist. Meanwhile, our Soft Engg was uttering 2 or 3 random sentences per chapter and filling the rest of the class with random tangential discussion. Our teacher was really good at wasting class time by going off-topic and because he was senior (and the only teacher on this topic) we couldn't complain much either.

[@TheRelentlessKnight]

It's insane that the processor didnt put you guys in teams and simulate a sprint session amongst yourselves

[@vitalyl1327]

I wonder how agile/scrum are even related to any computer science (being totally unscientific to begin with)

[@ACium.]

apply for startups

[@AlexMint]

I attempted to dual compsci and a media-related degree, but only finished the latter because my school actively made it harder for engineers who have to work through school(multiple 5-day/wk classes but not enough financial aid to no-life that semester). But I still learned to code on both accounts and it's an utter trashfire out here. I literally had professors go "look up KZbin tutorials" in 2020-21 and "I can't help you, today's a work day". $72k in debt to earn just a bit above the poverty line. My 3D animation teacher, based on the work of her students, should be paying us back with damages.

[@peetzuhman]

I have a B.S. in Computer Science and now I bartend for a living

[@RLleeo]

Tell me ur joking!

[@eggaming8292]

​@@RLleeoNot everyone who has degree can code

[@amat9285]

​@@eggaming8292he just didnt network hard enough

[@RLleeo]

​@@eggaming8292 😰

[@jovanniochoa702]

I mean, I basically work at a call center.... so... idk, I would take yours.... at least you get tips. Only tips I get are to off myself.

[@dre429]

Learning on the job is so real haha. I had a lead once give me a small project where I had to use bash. I’ve never used bash before that moment. I was expected to learn and implement the project and I did. Funnily enough I engrossed myself so much in bash that people can hardly believe I’ve been doing it for less than a year and I’ve written scripts to improve efficiency on multiple occasions. I’m even teaching my coworkers things haha.

[@timucintarakc2281]

if you are applying to govn't jobs, even associate's degrees are not enough. you MUST have a cs degree so you can be an IT.

[@kristinapianykh9445]

The stuff like CPU architecture, compiler algorithms, operating systems, and networking was absolutely mind-blowing and super captivating in my studies. I cannot by any means relate to the boredom the author of the original video describes [EDIT]: I came to Germany specifically to get my CS degree with no tuition fees. Yes, education in Germany is free.

[@kingofmontechristo]

Something like free does not exist… the people who work pay for it. So when international people go over here, it is free for them, but not for the Germans… they finance your studies

[@herdenq]

I completely agree. Studying computer science in university was a wonderful experience

[@LeegallyBliindLOL]

*Mostly free. You still have to pay your Semesterbeitragsgebühren :) Danmark is actually free

[@kristinapianykh9445]

@@LeegallyBliindLOL it is mostly the transportation costs in the entire Bundesland so I had no problem paying this fee

[@LeegallyBliindLOL]

@@kristinapianykh9445 I completely understand and agree with that sentiment. It's that + canteen support etc. But it's still 300-500€ per semester, depending on where you live, which for some people is a lot, BUT part time jobs are plentiful and pay well, so, there shouldn't be any issue there for anyone who actually wants to study.

[@jsg9575]

I'm starting my MSc Computer Science & Software Engineering with extra modules in maths. I'm already working as a mid level engineer and get paid well, didn't get a degree and did a bootcamp/self taught. Doing the degree because I have some hardcore learning/career goals looking to develop my math/cryptography with applications in software dev and have a very strong thirst for knowledge so in my case a degree makes sense.

[@Junedmx]

I'm planning for MSC in computer science next year ..

[@SimplyMartin]

What was your bachelor's degree and how can you do a MSc in CS if you didn't have a Bachelors? Probably it was a STEM then right?

[@MagdyDoze]

@@SimplyMartin you can get MSc if you have work experience, they have this criteria in some universities...you can get it Online too...I'm planning to do so too God Willing

[@DrakeHDxgaming]

lol dont worry you can let your guard down there isn't an employer in the comment section.....or is there

[@ey00000]

@@MagdyDoze its a shame that people are allowed to do a MSc degree without a BSc degree. I dont care how much work experience you have, u literally skip the hard theoretical courses. Many students struggle with them and have sleepless nights. It sucks!

[@TravelingMooseMedia]

I have no degree and 5 years of experience. I’ve been coding since I was 18. I was extremely passionate though, so I created like 20 websites, invented a pathfinding algorithm and got it published, created a complex and original PC game that mimics cod zombies, and had 3 years of college in CS and math. I just applied and got a job making 6 figs, so I left school. Now I just try to provide business value and express my work in written word clearly. That’s kept my boss’ happy and my wallet full. As a side note… most of my coworkers with degrees were trash and didn’t know how to do anything as juniors because they only did LC and had no projects. It is so beneficial to prove that you can deploy a fully working project in the same tech stack that a company used

[@kenokiii5863]

i wanna self teach myself but i don’t know where to start exactly is there any tips you could give me?

[@s8x.]

NOW, a cs degree is useless. People are so desperate just to even find an internship. It’s too competitive now cuz everyone is doing it and everyone has the same skills and can learn it on youtube. only reason i got an internship is from a connection. i’m not better than anyone else and i’m just a random cs student

[@mjpthetrucker9485]

This is what I'm hearing from folks in the field. A glut of folks seeking jobs. The herd needs serious thinning.

[@radiospank]

Absolutely people copying code and cheating on tests😂

[@ji-wonseong1623]

My biggest regret in life? Going to college for my parents. My degree was all for nothing and I never cared for it. Unless you're willing to do everything this man says in the video, move away from your parents and even cut off communication for a bit if you must. Don't make the mistake I did. I am underemployed and questioning why I even bother. I could've used that time to save money instead. I am depressed on a daily basis and absolutely loathed college in the first place. Don't go to this field unless you absolutely want it and are willing to devote your life to it like a religion.

[@ZeroCloudsZeroSkies]

im not a cs major but im a senior in a similar predicament, living with my parents. all ive ever wanted was to just own an apartment and live my life, but i dont rlly see any other alternative besides trade school, and im kind of burnt out on any form of academics. ive been in school my whole life, every part of me wants to drop out. i usually make good grades but now they’re just an afterthought. idk what to do anymore. i hate that i waited so long

[@alonzo4164]

I, too, regret the time I spent on my CS degree. It led NOWHERE. I listened to my parents and all the teachers in high school about how useful college was going to be. In my personal experience, they lied. They sold dreams, made promises, and gave hope and never talked about the potential for failure. They never talked about the role of luck in actually getting a job in your field. I could say more but I empathize with your regret.

[@TheGoodGuy890]

Gulp already a sophomore

[@immortalzombiegaming377]

Im in the same boat wanted to leave school after covid started but was forced to stay because of "my future". Since ive graduated ive been applying to 20+ jobs a day and it took me 4 months just to get a job that pays 18 an hour. Im buried in debt and will never be able to move out. If your looking for something related to computer hardware the most luck ive had with jobs is in IT for schools, and desktop/hardware technician roles. Just started as a hardware tech not making much but i get to open computers all day and enjoy what im doing.

[@tonyh1345]

yeah i wasted 4 years on getting a finance degree

[@exec.producer2566]

The solution that nobody wants to hear is that US citizens should be the only eligible employees for US Companies. Getting a job in SWE wouldn’t be hard if 2.5m H-1B’s from India weren’t undercutting the salary for these positions.

[@fabiusm7763]

I mean, then companies would just outsource jobs to India.

[@exec.producer2566]

@@fabiusm7763 then they aren’t allowed to operate in the US it’s that simple. US companies should not be allowed to outsource if they are profiting in the US market. Not to mention the security hole it opens up. These people are not loyal to the US. What happens when a Chinese exchange student goes to MIT, gets a job at OAI, then writes a backdoor for the CCP into their entire operation. It is a massive security hazard, and I know with 100% certainty some of the developers I’ve worked with have been assets of other foreign governments. We are walking around with our pants down in the name of Equal Opportunity for 3rd worlders who aim to undermine our country. I support capitalism and the free market, but pretend there aren’t flaws in the current implementation of the system is naive.

[@RandomFandomOfficial]

@@exec.producer2566 I 100% agree!

[@awddfg]

@@fabiusm7763 You must have a low iq to not realize that could also be made illegal.

[@bernoulliseqn9885]

Theres a huge craze for software engineering/IT in India because that's the career path which is shoved down the throats of pretty much every student out there. I mean hell, just the act of securing a cushy cs job makes headlines in most news outlets wherein someone from one of the IITs (premier institutes in India) bags an offer of around $100K.

[@hackmedia7755]

if you want serious money, you can work at a profit-sharing company or employee-owned company. Another way is making your own product or service under your own company instead of being used by a corporation.

[@averagejojo7019]

Graduated with a cs major and an info systems minor. Couldn’t even get a job at Wendy’s luckily I got a starting position in IT and am hoping to get my foot in the door at some point. My guess is it’s more about who you know than what you know. From what I’ve heard bootcamps are the best route as opposed to just trying to raw dog it.

[@ChipsChallenge95]

Here’s my advice after almost 20 years in the field: take some free classes online (if you’re reading this you have access to free education), work on some practical projects, build a portfolio on github, apply for internships or entry level jobs, if you don’t succeed at least you didn’t fail AND be in student loan debt.

[@taqedog3717]

How to work on practical projects Where can i find them?

[@ohfrancy]

@@taqedog3717 search online or think about something, even a stupid idea and make it, don't hesitate just do it now. You want to get into front-end? search for 'front-end project ideas', take one and do it yourself without any tutorial (obviously you need to know fundamentals), if you run into a problem try to split that into more small problems and spend a lot of time trying to figure it out yourself (if you just can't, search online in forums). Also DO learn about the theoretical part of how everything works and study, it is important because it's not only about coding in the real world and in real jobs. That's my advice, good luck

[@stuartxmills]

1/40 is 2.5%, thus 97.5% of volunteers wasted time... a professor should know better.

[@mario50000]

guess why his time is so important? he spends all day trying to understand percentages

[@4115steve]

Schools and certifiers profit off failure. KZbin educators rely on a good reputation to teach well or they don’t profit. That’s the difference that makes KZbin better than schooling

[@ai_outline]

If computer science degrees become “useless” due to AI then every other degree will have the same faith. I’ll keep studying CS, because I love this and a bonus is that I’ll actually understand the mechanics behind AI!

[@ai_outline]

@@minhuang8848 agreed mate! 💯

[@saww8103]

​@@minhuang8848One mass protest all around the world and ai is banned

[@kingofmontechristo]

Ai will never and should never be banned. Did you know that when printing press came out there were countries which rejected it? Did you know that when the kitting machine came out it was rejected because of the fear that that knitting machine is going to take over jobs. It is true, it did, but that is part of life. Eventually people will stop getting CS degrees and people will stop trying to get into the field except very few people who will help the AI to work. That transition is nice, but eventually things will balance out.

[@ai_outline]

@@kingofmontechristo i don’t think people will stop getting CS degrees. Maybe less people will get them, but it won’t be 0 hahaha! Who will learn the mechanics of AI in that case?

[@kingofmontechristo]

@@ai_outline did you read what I wrote? I literally wrote that except a few people are going to go into the field. Out of currently 1000 jobs there will be perhaps 50 of extremely high educated people with probably masters degree because of the complexity. I could imagine that there are going to be simple things in regards of the physical technical structure of for instance robots. So electricians would gain some jobs

[@KippoKupo]

I swapped from compsci to another major as a freshman. I am glad I did. The major I swapped to has WAYYYY more job opportunities.

[@nozers]

What was it?

[@randomonlineuser6401]

What u switch to?

[@reemjaffar3443]

gatekeeper 😂😂

[@itsjustramblings]

Every startup. entrepreneur will say you don't need a CS degree but they either got their faang job because of CS degree or will hire only CS Master's and PhD's to work on their new world changing products and if they hire self-taught engineers it will be with decades of proven experience in a very specific area. That should tell you what is valued and what is not. As a self taught and trained on the job, software engineer and someone who almost got a CS degree I will say having a CS degree will open up lot of doors that you can't even imagine. With a CS degree you will think like a CS engineer but without one it all depends on factors such as your knowledge exposure, location to a tech hub, getting right opportunities at right time and connections and so on. IMO, It is the hard reality.

[@benzemamumba]

You seem to be lamenting

[@-Engineering01-]

Can you get CS degree at 30+ and find a job ? (As a freshman)

[@gewdvibes]

@@-Engineering01-it’s never too late to start

[@itsjustramblings]

@@-Engineering01- Anyone can study CS. you can get that info from universities where ever you are.

[@-Engineering01-]

@@gewdvibes But they say there's ageism in the field

[@Ball.Daily11]

Very much so is useful. I currently hold a 170k a year job with it. So tired of the nonsense of degrees being worthless, there not, people just don’t know how to leverage them. Many industries are willing to train you from the ground up if you have a 2 or 4 year degree in anything because it shows your baseline intelligence. If your broke with a 4 year degree look into insurance adjusting, they will train you from the ground up and starting salaries are at 70k and you get issued a company vehicle. The work isn’t hard, mostly work from home, switch companies every 2 years and you will be at 80 to 110k a year doing that work. Put a little effort into what your degree qualifies you for and if you didn’t look up jobs before choosing your your major that’s on you.

[@XoPlanetI]

I got my Computer Science and Engineering degree 2 decades ago and i think we are at crossroads now.Programming skills alone will not take you far.You need to have solid design skills along with insatiable appetite for learning new things.

[@C.A._Old]

i want tell you. now times 2020s worst time we are living right now. i wish we are in 2000s and 2010s. Because covid ruined everythings.

[@DrManHattan3n20]

I’m 36. Been in tech for 16 years. No degree, no Certs, just experience. I make 6 figures. I am incredibly lucky. I didn’t work hard, i work smart and I am good with people. I would recommend to the next generation to be in construction or electrician because it’s cold out in these tech streets. I only have a job because a lot of people like me.

[@BangMaster96]

Tech Jobs have been marketed to be those comfy cushion six figure jobs for the last 20 years, this is why millions of People are entering College to graduate with a Comp Sci degree, only to realize that these comfy cushion jobs no longer exist, competition is fierce, six figures is a pipe dream for many now, and the Tech Industry is highly volatile, one moment everyone is hiring, the next moment everyone is firing. I'd rather spend that College Money on a Medical Degree, or another Engineering Degree, or Law, or Finance Degree, a Computer Science degree in 2024 is useless if that's the only Career option you want to pursue. This is a very unstable Career, almost every Software Engineer has faced a layoff in their career, and everyone is always looking to jump jobs every 3 to 4 years.

[@Chewie260]

From a grad "reving up those fryers" there is no point comparing self-study/degree. You need both. I dont code as my hobby, i studied it, got a good grade, then got no job, cuz every god damn interview wants my portfolio i do in my free time, apparently stuff i did for uni does not count. :)

[@squiggs69]

Here's the thing I've been in the IT industry for 6 years now and I started out as help desk and ive been trying to land an egineer role but it seems like no one wants to take me in. I got 2 certifications for cloud computing and nothing as of yet. The thing I've noticed a bit is that people with a degree seem to just walk right in and get the role while I gotta apply and still get rejected for these engineer roles and yes I have a portfolio to prove my skillset. I've been trying to break into cloud for 2 years now and its HARD to get in. Well, at the end of it all im considering going back to university to complete my bachelors and HOPEFULLY with my already earned experince I could potentially land a senior role. So yes, finish your degree if you're in university even if its just a title but you'll be suprised what kind of roles you can actually land and even senior roles without any prior experience. GOOD LUCK!

[@daprince001x5]

You should check out WGU

[@RLleeo]

So cs degree is important.? Self taught are lagging behind?

[@npaprika1]

Even when it was hot in the 2010s you had to do personal project or have a referral to get an interview. Not to sound boomer bc it is harder today, but i think it’s being blown out of proportion by applicants who would have struggled somewhat back then too… but I’ve rode my job through this wave so i don’t really know

[@SeRoShadow]

i hate networking it has nothing to do with coding

[@Leonhart_93]

Yeah well, once you are at the job you will soon find out that not all of it is coding. A lot of it is business and interpersonal skills. The world is very consistent in this regard. If you don't like that, pretty much the only thing you can do is develop your own product with only you working on it.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

​@@Leonhart_93not me being autistic and terrible with people (or them terrible with me). 😢. I'm pretty much cooked

[@Leonhart_93]

@@keylanoslokj1806 Even the things you are terrible at can be improved, if you will yourself to tackle them. But you need to engage with them willingly without viewing them as just a chore. There are no shortage of autistic guys that learn in time most of what they need to be indistinguishable.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

@@Leonhart_93 seems impossible to be man. We are just ain't neurotypical, and that's something you people just don't get. I Cannot mask, at a physical, hardware level. People understand my neurodivergence from a few seconds/minutes talking to me... . And i have a rep of being boring and/or creepy

[@Leonhart_93]

@@keylanoslokj1806 Tell you what, I might also be on the spectrum, since I remember as I grew up that I was different from everyone else around me. Was pretty hard in my teen years. But now no one around me suspects anything, and I don't even know for sure myself. You can learn logically the social stuff that the others understand intuitively.

[@dexybanez2518]

I took it 1 step further, I graduated with a Computer Engineering degree which is basically Computer Science and Electrical Engineering combined. Not only I can't land a job as a Software Engineer, I also can't land a job as a Hardware Engineer. The tech industry in both sectors is fucked.

[@patrick_nilan]

The degree also shows an ability to stick with something for more than 2 months…

[@MastaOfMonkeyDisasta]

Idk about that... I think degrees are way too overvalued and ultimately a paywall now to a better life.

[@patrick_nilan]

@ there are ways to get cheaper degrees such as state schools. Without a degree you’re going to have a hard time finding a job. If I’m a company a four year degree shows me that someone can stick to something and it shows a level of reliability.

[@MastaOfMonkeyDisasta]

@patrick_nilan I used to believe the same thing, but I've come to realize it's just a marketing/sales pitch by colleges. What the true statement implication behind it is, is that you are wealthy enough to go to college and is a class/wealth flex veiled as hard work. I'm more impressed by the self-taught at this point. Because there is a proven self-driven will to learn and expand that is outside of academia that forces students to essentially go to class and learn.

[@patrick_nilan]

@ it depends what degree you get. I got a computer engineering degree and I definitely think it was worth it!

[@pocolocoheyya3375]

That comment around 11:35 really hit home because on one hand I had a professor who I swear to god was the BEST teacher to teach automata theory to a guy like me who hears the words "Let's say..." and my brain shuts off. I suck at theories but managed to pass the class with a B but on the other hand, I had professor who was the absolute worse for teaching algorithms. The worst part is that I LOVE algorithms but all he did was read off a powerpoint and sometimes he seemed confused. How the fuck I come into a class I PAID for and learn LESS than I could have just going to youtube?

[@lazyman2451]

I got my CS bachelor a couple months ago but still working as a mechanic, after work I would work on projects as a hobby until I get good enough as a developer to apply to jobs.

[@amosnimos]

It's not that 'everyone is self-taught' there's a big difference. I tried an AEC in server administration and cybersecurity, but every teacher I had agreed it was pointless for me because I already knew as much, if not more, than they did in their fields. I'm self-taught because I spend 9+ hours a day, over 10 years, learning for fun. You can’t compare that to people who sit in a classroom for 5 hours a day, over 14 months, because they need structure to learn, they only learn what's in the program, a real self-taught person will learn that and everything around it. The real problem is that the system is broken, without that paper, it’s hard to prove my skills. Now I’m starting the attestation process, which will still take 14 months, but at least I won’t have to sit through classes where I know more than the teacher. There's only so many times you can correct the teacher before it just gets uncomfortable.

[@77modod]

Just to clear a point about "you can work without degree", that's extremely difficult, even though if you found a job, the salary will be cut off by like 10%-30%, that's why the recruiter hired you specially, because they can cut off the salary without you negotiating about it, because you're already struggling to find a job. I work in non-tech industry, as a SE student, however my salary is being cut off by 50% because I don't have a degree in the field I'm working on, even though it doesn't really need a degree.

[@plaidchuck]

Yep many people who are damn smart and have years of industry experience are not allowed to even move lateral due to no degree now

[@kingofmontechristo]

But that is logical. How can you pay someone the same amount of money to someone who studied for years math and logic?

[@zane6138]

@@kingofmontechristo you could pay someone who learns more or faster versus someone who learns but is slow. or vice versa.

[@RainmanWilliams]

I have a degree in comp sci and ended up in healthcare. Not one thing I do requires computer science knowledge. It’s all about who you know!

[@invictuz4803]

Did NeetCode say picking up in the next 5-10 years? We're slow-cooked!

[@MofoMan2000]

I kind of did it the other way around. I got my foot in the door while I was in school, so by the time I didn't graduate I already had a portfolio started.

[@The_Only_StixMan]

Programming is not the only path in CS, you learn Networking and communication networks, computersystems engineering basics, web development, front end development, backend development, mobile application development, Systems development, Operating system management, Low level systems development, database management, database development, APIs, Systems analysis, Informatics, information systems, Data structures and algorithms, Machine learning, robotics basics, all coupled with mathematical background to handle computer based mathematical problems, and many more that i left out No self-taught developers can really come out that well equiped after 3-4 years of self teaching and that's why companies prefer graduates over self taught developers In conclusion, it's 100% still worth it

[@pepperdayjackpac4521]

CS is an umbrella term that covers everything you just mentioned.

[@iamrysheem]

But if they are self taught they probably only need to teach themselves how to make money from it without a job.

[@jmw1982blue]

Google all those topics, and learn 😂

[@Hungarian_subtext]

What do you think these roles ending in 'developement' do? They write programs.

[@omardub15]

As a bio grad, I thought about switching to computer science and data analytics-did some courses, built a portfolio, and got some experience. But in the end, I chose a master’s in environmental engineering. Fewer job openings,not as high-paying, but highgh barrier to entry and more stable. CS is super competitive, and the tech industry is so volatile. With AI putting the final nail in the coffin, it feels like it isn’t worth the time and effort to enter the tech industry

[@AZaqZaqProduction]

Your point about being genuinely skilled at what you do is something that I agree with a lot. If you - Genuinely give a shit about the field and aren't just doing it for the money - Are better than 90% of your peers then you'll do okay. Admittedly this isn't the best _advice_ since by definition it can't apply to 90% of people, but if you feel like you fall into that group, then maybe you shouldn't worry as much. But here we all are, watching KZbin videos about our field in our leisure time. That's probably a leg up.

[@guitar2935]

That's only half of the equation though, you can be amazing in an in demand niche but you still need to prove that either through networking or interviewing. The sheer variety of software development and vague job postings asking for general technologies instead of descriptions of the actual work you will be doing turns the job hunt into a massive game of luck and nepotism.

[@centipedekid9824]

If you have to be above 90% of your peers realistically you wont be.

[@stretch8390]

The arts grads are frothing with vindication that the advice of doing a stem degree wasn't a fool proof way to a job.

[@headintheclouds02]

Haha definitely. In all honestly though jokes on everybody cause even doctors, lawyers and other white collar jobs will be gone or the salary will be reduced. If technology goes one step ahead and implements AI inside of robots then blue collar and service jobs will get automated. So the real question remains, what's left after this ? Do we all just accept that most of us will struggle in the future because even I don't think the job economy will survive this. Corporations and companies are already greedy as it and love to cut costs. They are probably thrilled at the idea of having a perfect worker who doesn't want holidays, breaks, money or even insurance.

[@johncam8420]

@@headintheclouds02 have you heard of Communism? that is what happens. The transition will not be nice, though.

[@headintheclouds02]

@@johncam8420 Yeah I have and I agree it wouldn't be pretty.

[@lotuttv]

the field is oversaturated to the point where you NEED to know what other students don't that being the minutiae of programming languages-things like Docker, etc.

[@mikedelmonaco6193]

I think people are a little too hard on CS degrees. I agree that most of what you learn probably isn't going to be useful on the job, like a lot of the discrete math and algorithms, especially if you're just going into web dev. But I think the job of a university shouldn't be to teach you things like git, react, or even web dev in general. It should primarily be focused on teaching you how to think about code, problem solving skills, and how to write maintainable code. And you can teach yourself how to use a tool like git or react on your own pretty easily, but it's much harder to teach yourself how to think. I got an undergraduate CS degree from Northeastern University and I'm really happy with it. My most important classes taught me how to think and solve problems, and it was the type of thing I'd never learn or develop on my own, even though I already had years of coding experience before starting college. From what I've heard, most colleges aren't like that though. I think algorithms, os, discrete math, etc. is good to know and enables you to a wider variety of things than just frontend web dev, but I agree that it seems a bit overdone in most colleges. But whenever you're trying to teach a wide variety of people who might have very different goals, there's always going to be some things you learn that you don't end up needing. That all being said, it seems colleges might be getting worse than they are now. Northeastern at least seems to be giving in to students complaining about material being too hard and dumbing things down and shifting focus away from how to think, which is sad to see. I still think a degree is the best way to develop the skills to obtain and succeed in a career in tech, but not all jobs should require it. Especially frontend-only jobs. But for an engineer, I'd definitely recommend it if you don't want to be restricted by not being well-rounded and having a background that enables you to do other things, and you can afford the time and money spent pursuing a degree.

[@alg0rithm1]

19:09 Why is the professor's name blurred out? If he's going to shame his volunteers, we should be able to shame him.

[@zane6138]

even if its not public domain, im pretty sure the professor could sue for "defamation" or some stupid law crap where "oh you showed my face"

[@alg0rithm1]

@@zane6138 The students can do the same, and have a strong case.

[@maaikevreugdemaker9210]

My profs were hardcore too, but not THAT hardcore! But when I clearly said an mentioned I had problems mentally, they did not give a single f.

[@cyanide_3409]

not even 2 seconds into the video, I'm in my last year of uni studying comp sci. It's not worth it.

[@t.r.r901]

Something that is not said enough imo, is that SWE is not the only path for CS majors. Like said in the video, CS!= Software Engineering. You can go the Networking,Cybersecurity,IT Consultant, and other paths too that I’m not listing. I’m not interested/ passionate enough in Software Engineering to do it, however I’m very passionate about Cybersecurity and love it (specifically red team). So I added my concentration in Cybersecurity. As Neetcode said, it’s a lot easier to study something you’re interested in so this has been a hell of a lot easier for me to study and genuinely improve and learn at. Overall, I just think people should remember that CS doesn’t automatically==SWE. Find what you like if you don’t enjoy SWE.

[@daple1997]

The recruit difficulty doesn't exist. That person wouldn't have to work

[@R1kduv]

I would like to add, this is a country to country question. Some countries if you have the slightest knowledge with IT they will hire you instantly. Meanwhile some places it's impossible to get a job with the best degrees and experience.

[@nadrojcs]

I went through a TON of training at my first job. Literally gave us a bootcamp coming in (if you're a junior)

[@Alex-bo2fc]

I do NOT regret my CS degree. I had to work with concepts such as DAGs (Directed Acyclic Graphs) and ASTs (Abstract Syntax Trees) when modelling novel business logic or when simply working with a CSS preprocessor. You need to know what is out there to later understand the possibilities you have ahead of you.

[@matiaskp7184]

Economy its kinda collapsing ngl

[@zhoxnq6776]

ya you hear about the same thing on every field

[@jasonirwin4631]

At this point, if your post high school education doesn't give you an official accredited certification that is required to work in a particular field, then it's probably a waste of time and money.

[@atrus3823]

I’ve done both. I started self-taught and did get work, but I always felt left out since many people around me had degrees. I also feel being self-taught makes you focused on getting something working, which while a valuable skill, it’s easy to miss a lot of non-obvious stuff that is important. I decided to get a degree after being self-taught and working in the industry for 12 years, and I’m glad I did. It wasn’t all great, a lot of it I already knew, there was still a large self-taught aspect, but it made me a much more well-rounded programmer. I feel I have a broader perspective and deeper understanding that even if not applied directly to a task informs the way I approach things and my awareness of potential pitfalls. Finally, there are some doors that really aren’t open to you without a degree. So, while you can get a job self-taught, it just makes things more difficult for you. And yes, as some people say, you could save a lot of money locking away at home for 4 years, but you’d be missing out on structure, wisdom from experience, community, and university is fun! Especially being Canadian where you can get zero interest student loans, it is easily worth it.

[@-Engineering01-]

Is there an age limit set by the industry, where you could never find a job after studying CS ?

[@atrus3823]

@@-Engineering01- I don't know. I found in my 40s after studying

[@-Engineering01-]

@@atrus3823 but you said you had been working in the industry for 12 years before you got the degree, did you start working in the industry at 28 ?

[@atrus3823]

@@-Engineering01- 23, but they don't usually give you a degree as soon as you start school 🤣

[@atrus3823]

@@-Engineering01- and yes, in case you were doing the math, I took quite a while to finish my program. I had a family by then

[@judewestburner]

I'm 44, been in software since literally my teens. The funny thing is I'll get asked to work on stuff I have never ever done before like working with certain languages or stacks all the time. It's almost like you don't need experience in whatever the thing is, just show you can work in something and people will just give you stuff

[@Vortex-qb2se]

8 years of self-study and currently doing a degree. And I genuinely feel like I'm not skilled enough.

[@Leonhart_93]

So all of that is study without any actual job experience? No wonder you don't feel ready, you should have sought a job after the first year, especially as years ago it was much easier.

[@rileyandersen1706]

@@Leonhart_93 should coulda woulda

[@Leonhart_93]

@@rileyandersen1706 Yep, wasted time at this point without action.

[@Vortex-qb2se]

@Leonhart_93 Well, technically, I just finished my first year of college and I plan on seeking internship after the second year because people simply don't take me seriously when I tell them I've been developing games since I was 9 years old and don't have sufficient proof for it 💀 Actually, currently on the stage of making projects, so that I have something to show off because for all these years I only finished two projects out of the hundreds that I started. One has millions of visits, though, but I'm not sure if I wanna put it in my CV. It is my most successful project but is also a Roblox game so uh ye I feel kinda embarassed about it. And it's not that I haven't looked for jobs before, I just never found a remote internship when I was in highschool (and I could not go work abroad or hundreds of kilometers away from home for the ones I could've applied to, kind of doesn't make sense to especially since quite a few of them are unpaid).

[@Vortex-qb2se]

@Leonhart_93 I just finished the first year, lol. Planned to seek internship after the second year because the employers I spoke with don't take me very seriously when I tell then I've been coding for 8 years as a 20 year old and my github account is only 4 years old and I have only 3 complete projects, one of which is a Roblox game (has millions of visits, though, so it's my most successful one, too). And for obvious reasons I couldn't find one in highschool, not to mention remote jobs weren't as widely offered up until one or two years ago and I couldn't travel hundreds of kilometers or abroad as a 16-17 year old for an unpaid internship, that's ridiculous.

[@Vadkon07]

It still worth it, but only for documents. At home I learned about coding much more than in my IT college.

[@datastatacian]

the only thing left is to be a techfluencer

[@beginneratstuff]

I'm in the middle of my CS degree. I'm mostly getting it to make myself look better to employers, but I know I could learn it all on my own if I wanted to; I'm already pretty good at learning things on my own. I like videos like this because they remind me of what I'm getting into. I have a lot of work to do...

[@lotus_flower2000]

Got a bachelors in biology only to find out that all related jobs just require a 10 month training certificate and like 2 years of experience.

[@animatronix5676]

​@@justinfricke9182too bad, I would have liked to work in a biological laboratory. Unfortunately, however, I cannot study for that long because I also need money for myself and my family. it's always sad to find out how the world works after high school, not all dreams can come true or at least not for me. It will always be a dream of mine to graduate in biology and work in a laboratory.

[@bernoulliseqn9885]

have you looked into getting a masters? My best friends mom did a masters in biotech and worked as a lab tech in a food certification/regulation company. Did her MBA , worked her way up and now manages an entire division.

[@ThechronocrosserII]

I studied CS and it took me 10 years to get my 4 year degrees (life stuff happened). Around my senior year, I realized that i dont like programming unless its web dev because im a very creative/visual person. Fast forward, i work IT at a top university in the nation (I honestly forget because its a university and I think all of them are scams) and I did some interviews for my assistant position. A BUNCH of CS majors with bachelors degrees trying to get in and i was pretty shocked. I will say, a lot of it depended on if they were a good fit for our department and most really couldn't interview well. You also gotta remember that you are competing with international students as well.