Nemesis vs Lockdown - Key Differences, Comparisons and First Impressions

Sorry about the weird focus on this video sometimes - it was a long day and my monitor died so I couldn't check how the framing was. But at least the discussion is interesting!
Awaken Realms has put out another banger. But there are some key differences. Zach and Chris talk about their first impressions from their play through, and why both are great games.
To watch the play through, click here - • Nemesis Lockdown Playt...
Unboxing and basic painting tips, click here - • Nemesis Lockdown Unbox...
Timestamps
00:00 Intro/The Questions worth discussing
01:30 Which version is better?
02:30 New Mechanic - Contingency Tokens
03:35 New Mechanic - Light and Power
04:45 Feeling/differences of both versions
07:34 Playing at 2 players
09:00 Do you need expansions for Nemesis?
10:27 Nemesis and Lockdown are theme heavy but also random
13:33 Lockdown improves upon the original in tiny ways
18:35 The Player Aids are annoying
19:30 Better insert than Nemesis
20:27 New Mechanic - Knowledge
20:57 End game conditions/objectives
28:52 New Mechanic - Computers
31:25 Negatives - Ease of play, length, rules
33:15 Okay, negatives for real this time
38:22 Ease of teach
44:30 Ratings
49:40 Final thoughts
-------------------
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[@DumahAtreides]

I had made the DM comment about Nemesis (not in the sense of a non-player, but as someone who knows the game really well) - the reason I make that comment you did talk about, things like the setup and knowing what goes where, then during play to go through the steps. It is really a complex game, but strangely that's not complexity in the player options but in the game mechanisms. When teaching this, I do as you all talk about - setup the game, talk about the theme and goals for the players, and have like a 5 minute here's how you play using those cards: then we are ready to play. Everything else can be shown as it's encountered as opposed to front loaded. Players don't need to know probably 50% of the rules by the end (but somebody does need to know all of the rules).

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah definitely, as we talked about it I was like, oh yeah this makes more and more sense and I don't notice it because Zach has always done such a good job of being that resource and knowing it so well (coincidentally he's also my DM for any RPG that I've played hahah). I think you're bang on and definitely important to note for those who haven't played and are thinking about jumping in.

[@DumahAtreides]

@@RoomandBoardReviews That's a really good thing to consider for a potential buyer. Knowing that this more than a lot of games needs that person who is going to really learn the rules in advanced otherwise the game at the table will lag significantly and not be near as fun. I'd certainly suggest someone play two handed coop solo to learn the game if they are the one who is going to teach it.

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

it is really great that the microphone is in perfect focus for this vid.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

It's the real star of the show!! Haha, I tried to sharpen my blurry face in post a bit, but that's also noticeably weird when I'm too in focus. At least it's a fun discussion, I enjoyed reliving it when making the timestamps :)

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I have to say that your example of "Laurel and Hardy meet The Mummy" is so so funny to me.

[@tawink]

Tubers need to set the focus with a wider depth of field instead of relying on auto focus

[@jc5512]

​@@tawinkor just fix the focus at the correct distance

[@orbitrequiem1695]

2:56

[@marcodavinci3150]

We just finished our first playthrough of Nemesis and it was indeed such a cinematic experience. Ship is almost breaking appart with a threshold of rooms on fire and malfunctioning! Then when we were at the escape pods I convinced my crew to go back to the surgery room to cure possible infections so we could survive after escaping but we got ambushed on the way by the Queen and then had to rush to stop the self-destruct sequence as we wouldn't have had time to get to the escape pods! Turns out I was the only one who was actually infected so my crew could have left and survived much earlier and avoided the Queen! Very exciting stuff! I might get Lockdown now too!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha nice. I love how it always provides such a fun story.

[@DarkCrysisHQ]

I really love your dynamic and this style of video. Keep up the great work 😊

[@aaronm.837]

I've yet to play either the original or Lockdown, but the content you put out for has really made me want to try it. Just looks like a blast with the emerging narrative. Also, you both really play well off of each other and the conversation flowed really well. Chris, I hope you can rope Zach into doing more content with you in the future! I completely agree with Zach's rating system, it really gets down to brass tacks. Of course we can be analytical about ratings and do a true 1-10, but in the end, the 3 states is all my brain thinks of when choosing what game to play. And I really need to work on persuading others to buy games so I can play them too...

[@DarkstarDZN]

No clue how you don't have more subs man. You're a fantastic content creator. Much love.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Thanks so much, I really appreciate that a lot! It's coming along!

[@ironocy496]

Good summary of the two experiences. It aligns with mine so far. One thing we differ on is the crafting system. The enviro-suit is game mechanic critical considering you can use one to walk to the bunker in Lockdown. Also the flamethrower is a really good weapon you can craft.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

The term for what you all were talking about. That "recountability" is a game with "emergent story". Just got my shipping notice for this, and my first play of Nemesis last week. It was so good!!! This sounds like a blast as well.

[@eastargamemanufacturing6914]

Wonderful! Thanks for your presentation.😆

[@noodlemans]

Great video!

[@peterbartrina1347]

best review of those games on the internet, thanks guys!

[@SirNulljaeger]

Great comparison and channel, Just got Nemesis and it's been so much fun to play but lockdown is definitely net on the list.

[@warlorddk2070]

That cameras focus sure does love your microphone XD

[@peterbartrina1347]

Pls Bring him to more Videos, he is Great and you Both Had a also Great Vibe together ^^

[@-Ambos-]

you two are a crazy entertaining duo

[@jackrutter9797]

Loving the 1, 5 or 10 rating! Also loving Nemesis Lockdown solo, base box is enough for me, and the story it tells each game is really as good as people say!

[@VaultBoy13]

Me, too. It reminds me of the Siskel & Ebert thumb system where a thumb up (from one of them) meant they thought it was worth going to the theater to see. This is similar, but provides a middle option... - Not worth playing - Worth playing, but not owning - Worth owning

[@noodlemans]

“Our friendship should only be content” lmao. That was hilarious.

[@ferver-san]

More of this video format please!

[@scottchladek1770]

Would totally watch more videos like this, great comparison and critiques of both games.

[@SinestroUK]

Agree with this. More please!

[@svachalek]

I like Zach’s rating system, it’s similar to how I have started thinking about it. Most people have a kind or kinds of game they like, and most games are sort of just in the zone of being that thing you like. But, some just fail to get there, and some exceed to the point that you might like them even if you don’t expect to. Sorting things out in the middle category can be an interesting exercise but it’s hard to get a really objective level.

[@jamesmoriarty7796]

I am a huge fan of the first Nemesis. I just got Lockdown and am super excited to try it with some people. I enjoy the theme of the first one I think a bit more (big Alien fan as well) but I could easily see the gameplay having an edge in lockdown.

[@noodlemans]

I have all things nemesis and I love the original and its expansions. I haven’t played lockdown yet but I can’t wait. This is one of the few games I’ve blinged out with air ducts, computers, etc.

[@brandonkelbe]

blinged out?

[@noodlemans]

@@brandonkelbe you know it.

[@VaultBoy13]

You should really interact with the crafting system in your games. The ability to build a flamethrower can be the difference between having a weapon and not. Especially, with OG Nemesis and how easy it is to run out of ammo. The crafting system also allows you to take the more generic stuff and get something situational that you really need.

[@PSXfiles]

There's also a solo/co-op objective where you have to craft one of everything.

[@pookelywoo3954]

good video and discussion. I kickstarted both but have not cracked open Lockdown yet - was considering selling it as I have too much stuff (and I painted Nemesis 1 and the expansions). This makes me think I should probably offload the first one... tough decisions...

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I'd definitely try it out, we both really enjoyed the new additions. But I also think you don't necessarily NEED everything.

[@adamhickey396]

Well, as someone who owns and loves Nemesis, I think I may have to pick this one up now... :D I agree with you about the crafting. The last time I played it I was determined to try and craft some of my items to make a flamethrower etc, just to try the crafted cards. By the end of the game, I never got the right cards to craft anything, and the medical/ammo cards I needed to use. Next time though, I'm gonna try and craft again.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Totally. I feel like crafting, even if I make it my goal to craft, it'll still be 2-3 more times before I actually end up doing it.

[@adamhickey396]

@@RoomandBoardReviews Exactly! I wanted to try an make a flamethrower the last time as I reckoned it would be a useful weapon to have for some of the characters. Thinking of getting the Carnomorph's expansion too and I think crafting will be essential for that one

[@ValorantRivals]

I keep missing it, where do the little doors come from?

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

The doors are from the Stretch Goals for Lockdown, OR they had worse doors as an add-on for the base game, but the doors from the Lockdown Stretch goals are better, because they are two pieces.

[@JohnnyMcNabb63]

I Love nemesis but I like Lockdown more. I’m different but I think the original is easier to teach new players. Normally play 2 player co-op or solo. But if I play 3 players I prefer it semi co-op. Zack was a great addition and wouldn’t mind seeing more of him on the channel.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I've heard mixed reviews when it comes to Nemesis. But, since I am a huge Aliens fan, I want to play it.

[@LastNameTom]

Its a great game. The issue comes with the people you play with. Since its an emergent story game, if the players dont want to have fun with the game and just sit around doing nothing until they can get into a pod or hybernatorium, then the game wont be that much fun. But if the players really get into it, the game is phenomenal. Its a game that after we play a 5 hour long game, all of us are "We want to play again!"

[@stell4rt]

I understand the point about all the components. As a DS the board game player with explorer, phantom. Caracter, firekeeper expansions all other setups seem like the fastests setups ever in comparison xD. Even more when you realize a DS game is about 8 hours long lmao

[@tylerstephens6466]

mostly agree. stretch goal box is good.

[@Newt211]

Yeah the auto focus isn't using face identification. Like others have said, use a manual focus or just move the mic out of the center. Also you could just set the fstop to F5+.

[@dschimp]

3:05 Nice Bounce Off reference! 🤓

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha it is so fun to Bounce Off!

[@kgacalendar]

We tried Nemesis four times and then shipped it on. It was too fiddly and needlessly convoluted for not enough reward. I love that games like this gets created and released but it's a hard execution to land really well. I don't think it's a complex game or a complicated game, it's just bloated without that bloat leading to game states that are engaging (to us). We'll probably try Lockdown down the line but so far it's still in wrap.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

That's fair. It can be really hit or miss. I don't imagine lockdown will change your feelings on it, I do like it better, but just because I feel like it improves some Nemesis elements - it's still Nemesis at its core.

[@sideswipe2615]

“It’s probably going to be 150 as well.” Oh how I wish you were correct.

[@morganroosenmaallen5725]

We've been playing the snot out of base Nemesis. Great game but it's starting to feel samey-samey. Definitely looking forward to diving into Lockdown!

[@koonfasa]

Are those Star Destroyers in the background? I’d like to build myself an Imperial fleet one day… As for Nemesis I was all in on this Kickstarter. And that included round one, where I haven’t even got to the expansions yet. In fact I only just opened the medic.

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

Those are star destroyers. The game is Starwars armada.

[@harimakenji7608]

Do you recommend the cloth play mat? People swear it fixes the dark board of the OG nemesis

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I haven't seen it in person, but I've never minded the original board personally. All the information you really need are the numbers for your noise rolls and everything else is really on the room tiles themselves.

[@harimakenji7608]

@@RoomandBoardReviews thanks for reply! Im now torn between which game to buy. My local shop has nemesis and lockdown and i can only afford 1😅

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@harimakenji7608 they're both great, but I think Zach and I both like the updates to Lockdown more. Keeps that same feeling of the original with the added light and contingency mechanics.

[@harimakenji7608]

@@RoomandBoardReviews im leaning more towards lockdown as well. Its also$50 cheaper however im so frustrated i need to buy lockdown stretch goals to get 3d rover🤣 cant accept the 2d cardboard

[@kintreveis1019]

I enjoyed the video but I thought it was funny how much your camera likes your mic

[@mckeoncrawford9262]

Do ya'll still prefer Lockdown more than the base game as much as you do in this video?

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@mckeoncrawford9262 I'd still say yes

[@VaultBoy13]

I like OG Nemesis more. There's some cool ideas in Lockdown, so I'll still play it. But, here's my comparison... I don't like how easy it is to vent someone in this game. It's any room with a technical corridor. I liked the restriction of yellow room in the original. This game kind forces the player to keep a card to destroy doors in their hand. The CSS system is really fiddly. They're overly complex escape pods. I don't see most players bothering with them. I'm neutral on the power. It's interesting to be able to manipulate it to sabotage other players. But, it removes a lot of the difficulty from the game. I'm also neutral on knowledge. It's interesting, but it can be a bit grindy to get it. The contingency system is really fun though. I like it more than the engines and navigation. The computer cards are a great addition. OG Nemesis needs a promo pack that provides computer cards for the ship. The characters are an improvement. The cards feel more unique than OG Nemesis. As mentioned, I still think Lockdown is worth playing. I'll still play it from time-to-time, but I think OG Nemesis will get 2-3x more play.

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

I don't mind the venting in lockdown. I like that a bunch of rules encourage holding on to cards and moving as a group. the paranoia is fun. But also there are many more ways to use the vents to travel in lockdown, not to mention useing the computer to open doors. I also think the light mechanic does a lot of work pushing players onto the same floor. Players tend to be closer to each other than nemesis where you could spend half the game on different sides of the ship unable to come to each other's aid. The css pods are fiddley. I think on purpose. The escape pods feel a lot like the default escape in nemesis. I like that getting to the bunker really feels like the most viable and reliable escape. You are rolling the dice on css or the prison which makes them the desperation move that I think escape pods should have been. All good points tho. Still love nemesis

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Definitely valid points for sure. I also enjoyed the venting room but I also feel like it may get annoying if you have someone who just sits around by it, but I guess the aliens would eventually pop up.

[@cesar2189]

Can I add the Carnomorphs and Void Seeders to Nemesis Lockdown?? If thats possible then Lockdown is the way for me...

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

Yes you can!

[@kintreveis1019]

I think nemesis core could make some of those positive changes you guy enjoyed in lockdown with a small supplemental pack in the future.

[@ben1805]

Hmmm think you need to pull the camera back a bit, its going into and out of focus quite a bit

[@jameslebar9401]

Well...Nemesis Retaliation smashed 1million which only means one thing... 5 reasons not to back video !!!!!! I NEED YOU TO KEEP US IN CHECK CHRIS!

[@RaymondMillbrae]

Great discussion. But that focus, out of focus, focus, out of focus...was killing me. Set the camera's F-stop to the smallest setting. It'll focus on everything.

[@ClockworkWyrm]

Having not played Lockdown yet I would say my biggest gripe is the alien hanging on the post mini. I really hate minis that have figures hanging or holding onto terrain (not just ground elements), they just bother me when I have to move them. Like that post isn't moving around with them so my brain doesn't want it on the figure dang it! :P Great comparison and play through.

[@palmcrazysg]

can we use the LIGHT mechanics in the CORE game... as in House Rule it? What do you think? Would it work?

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I think it would be pretty hard. There are two map tiles specifically focused around manipulating the light, the turn tracker affects when things power down, plus the way the maps are divided I think are pretty different and sectioned off in this one specifically for where the light affects the section, plus you'd be missing the blue advantage die. It would take a LOT of home-brew to make that happen, and even still it might complicate the board a bit too much. I'm sure someone will try it down the line though, so who knows!

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

the boards are built totally differently with different mechanics in mind. light is as important to lockdown's entire design, as engines and a bridge and a sleep chamber are to Nemesis. everything from the board layout to the room actions, to the computer abilities, to the Items and the character action cards hook into the light mechanic in some way. OG Nemesis with a light mechanic, would either become way too clunky or the addition of light would mean no aliens ever pop up in a game. The amount of characters, aliens and components that are useable across the two games and the stretch goals and expansions of lockdown and Nemesis is pretty awesome and i think i trust Awaken Realms enough to think that if a light mechanic / the dark stalker aliens could be made to work in nemesis in a functional way they would have included that possibility.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Is Lockdown a remake of Nemesis, or are they two different games?

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

They're the same system, Lockdown is a standalone expansion, so it uses mostly the same mechanics while also adding a few key ones that I feel make a nice difference.

[@Wolcik3000]

I dont have neither, and I would like to have both, byt the initial cost...

[@timokrahl5620]

The thing for Nemesis (maybe lockdown even more) and the feeling of complexity is the amount of different systems combined with a bad Rulebook (at least the original) and the amount of components combined with alot of "special cases" that have their own rules that you can barely keep in mind. The experience is great - but it´s a messy game with a lot of stuff that just happens once with special rules for it. The game experience is great when it all works out and i love it - but streamlined in the way of "good game design" it is not. It never set out to be that as it tells it´s most interesting stories by throwing bad random events at the players. It just works so great as it´s one and done - In like a legacy game structure all the mechanics would just fall apart and be terrible. Nemesis is one of the few games that kind of have terrible mechanics by design to set you on a journey that is way more important than the goal of that journey - but what a journey it is.

[@HeeeeySteve]

This game looked so good I decided to find EVERYTHING second hand 🤦🏻‍♂️ Worth it. Such a good game and I’m glad I was able to find a store selling everything as a reasonable price. eBay prices for Kickstarter games are hilarious and it makes me sad that FOMO gets so preyed upon by those eBay users.

[@adam551982]

Did you just check local game stores?

[@HeeeeySteve]

@@adam551982 It was a combination of local game store and Black Friday deals at Game Nerdz and Miniature Market. The local store had all the kickstarter goodies with almost no markup. I doubt those add ons are widely available anymore. They were hard enough to find even a year ago

[@ValorantRivals]

46:37 Excellent point, some games are not comparable, but I would say if you give something a nine, then the 10 are better and if you give something at two, then they’re better than the ones but they’re still trash, but yeah 10 ratings and half ratings do kind of sound meaningless.

[@ValorantRivals]

I’m buying Lockdown cause of this video 🤦🏻‍♂️ so expensive for me but damn yal make it sounds like amazing

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Hope you love it! Make sure to get it from awaken realms instead of a scalper they're selling it pretty close to what Zach would have gotten it for :)

[@ValorantRivals]

@@RoomandBoardReviews can you provide a link please?, when you have a chance

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@ValorantRivals Sure, it's just through their latest Gamefound campaign, which you might have seen on the 5 reasons for Nemesis Retaliation, but often I see people trying to mark it up, or selling the base game for the same price that Awaken Realms is offering the base and the stretch goals - gamefound.com/en/projects/awaken-realms/nemesis-retaliation?refcode=1MjYjwujdECV5OsvMX7AvQ&gclid=CjwKCAiA5L2tBhBTEiwAdSxJX1YC_8IVBGsM9Mjt_Rm98m6OjLcCkIxuXoY1u8EUsYdiR0GVFQakvxoCl90QAvD_BwE#/section/project-story

[@ValorantRivals]

@jayjones-p1w worth it if you play it every now and then, I no longer have a group

[@memetwo3181]

2 bad they did not make an app to work as the bag but you just put number of players and alien race and you are ready to go

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

That would be a great app.

[@uxjared]

Good game, will always play. 5/10, 50%, 🤣

[@anthonytorre7505]

Is anybody interested in buying the board game including all the expansions brand new unopened with a few extras (all in pledge) $400

[@defleshedbuttocks]

I would send it to Ukraine. For the Russian tanks to run over.

[@LastNameTom]

The thing about Nemesis that I think they really dropped the ball on the Objectives. There are only 9 for Personal and 9 for Corporate. And some of them are stupid easy like having an egg and escaping alive and then others are No one but you must survive. They really needed to have made many more objectives of varying difficulty. So if we wanted to play a hard game the "Hard" cards would be like, "You must have 3 weakness discovered, and no one else can survive. or the easy cards would be like, "Everyone must survive" or "the ship needs to go to X". We've played a couple games where one person had the easiest objective of just having an egg, and everyone else were dead set on killing everyone else. So he grabbed the egg and took off in an escape pod about half way through the game. For the damage, we just place the intruder token next to the intruder on the board and add the damage cubes on top of that. it keeps the rooms clean but lets us keep track of the damage. I got the terrain pack and regret it, there is really nothing in there that is worth it. I got a 3d printer afterwards and printed out so much other stuff including much better doors. If I were anyone, I'd just buy the 3d print outs off of Etsy and not get the 3D Terrain.

[@Zwerggoldhamster]

I don't think I agree with you on the matter of objectives. What seems easy in one game, may be impossible in another game when circumstances are different. I also feel like you are misrepresenting the objectives. All objectives that require you to be the only surviver also have an alternative win condition -- e.g. killing a certain player or simply getting the ship to earth. The mission that requires you to get an egg also requires you to send a signal, so thats already two rooms you need to go to. All in all the only objective I don't like is "best friends forever", which requires simply another character (doesn't matter who) to survive.

[@Yeahyouheardme]

The dude on the right reallllllly needs to stop interrupting the guy on the left and let him finish his thoughts and opinions on their playthrough.

[@ejim941099]

This is probably the most detail description of comparing both games and THE most annoying camera focusing I have ever experienced. Still, I just minimized it anyways...good job though!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha thanks, yeah it was incredibly annoying to see afterwards but at least it won't happen for the next one *he says hopefully until it does and causes Room and Board to stop existing out of shame*

[@83redtribe]

The contingency mechanic sucks. You battle a lot in these games just to find out you where fucked from the beginning.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

If I hear a 5/10, I will avoid that game like the plague. So mostly, I'll look at games with 7/10 on the ten-point system or 4/5 Stars on the star system.

[@LastNameTom]

Nemesis is an outstanding game as long as you have friends who want to play the game. Since they can do whatever they want to win, they can either go around and have fun, or just sit in a room the whole game doing nothing. If they do nothing, game is no fun. If they get into the game, its a GREAT game. Every time we play it we always want to play it again really soon.

[@homewarboardgame6134]

Lockdown better!!!

[@fredfisher6121]

Dead space the board game