NEO PROG?? What's that all about then? | My thought's on this 80s anomaly

[@markanderson1313]

Great Andy, someone mentioning the fabulous Cardiacs. Saw them twice and felt it was somewhere between XTC and King Crimson. Absolutely bonkers but wonderful.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Check out my interview with Jon Poole, guitarist in the Cardiacs for the Sing to God album.

[@PeterWasted]

Well done! I was a huge Marillion fan from reading a snippet about them in Kerrang and then finding the 12" single of their debut single, "Market Square Heroes" and loving the cover. It wasn't until I played it at home that I realised the B side was a song called Grendell and was 17+ minutes long. I don't think I'd heard anything that brilliant before. I still think it's brilliant even though I can hear a lot of its derivation now. I lived in rural Wiltshire as a youth so getting to hear Neo-Prog was difficult. Even more difficult was having money to buy the records. I found Pallas to be hugely disappointing on The Sentinel and really didn't deserve the hype they had at the time. I didn't see anything by IQ but Twelfth Night played Salisbury College and in their original form were great. I didn't see Pendragon until I was at Polytechnic but they seemed to be far more a straight rock band. I had forgotten just how reliant we were on magazines to even know about these bands. I probably would never have listened to early Genesis if the press hadn't lambasted Marillion for being a rip off! The support bands too. Marillion had Peter Hammill as support on the Script tour and Cardiacs on I think the Fugazi tour. I have to admit that Cardiacs went way over my head at the time.

[@klik64]

love these unedited rambles.. very informative too.

[@michaelfavreau7617]

Andy. I have the greatest respect for you and your musical work, and the wonderful content you put out on the Ytube. I`ve seen Marillion 30 times ( 3 shows with Fish ). This is a great band. A band that became our Prog heroes. We were young lads, knew and loved the old guard , but this was our Prog Band. I didn`t care about "Neo" or classic or original or whatever you care to categorize the Prog. I loved Marillion. The band. Still do. And all these later, I still find great depth and meaning in the musicianship and lyrical content. Something that has escaped many of their contemporaries.

[@pandstar]

I remember exactly how I found out about neo-prog. I was in a bookstore in the music section in about 1983, and back then, Rolling Stone published books, called "The Year in Music", which were a recap of the previous year. One of the lead articles, was titled "Tales From Soporific Oceans", in which all the neo band were discussed. Of course, I immediately searched out their recordings, which I found at the record store I used to work at. Which happened to be the leading stores in LA for importing obscure prog and fusion from all over the world.

[@pandstar]

Let me add. That the article brought up quite a bit of what you are pointing out in this great vid. Things like: borrowing some of the 'punk energy', or the 80's pop sensibilities, etc.

[@Hartlor_Tayley]

The neo Prog movement is miraculous. Seems to parallel the emergence of Jambands in the US at the same time. I think they share some characteristics and existed primarily in their own worlds. I think people just didn’t want to give up on classic styles for punk and disco. Today I guess it’s all Neo everything.

[@sspbrazil]

I love Punk, Post Punk, Prog and Neo Prog fan, I love it all. Good rant again Andy.

[@keithparker1346]

What about post prog and neo punk 😊

[@Nephilim-81]

Oh I love this. With all names and categories aside. I love English Neo-Prog…if we want to call it that. ❤

[@thomashopper8616]

Raising my coffee mug to Neo prog

[@MettleHurlant]

Now that I can stream whatever I want I am discovering loads of great stuff I missed when I was too poor to buy albums. 80s me would have been so happy to have the ability to watch videos, hear music, read magazines and then go listen to the bands in the articles, and discover new bands and bands that are just new to me.

[@Pcrimson1]

You crack me up with that rambling at the end, don't stop.

[@davidwylde8426]

It Bites were the epitome of Neo Prog …. Right off the bat. Marillion basically did lesser versions of Genesis tracks initially, before genuinely immersing themselves within the times. But ‘It Bites, had been full on prog and fusion fans who’d equally embraced the Japan’s, the Level 42’s,( rightly’ when those bands had been peaking), and genuinely were nu prog. If you’d seen an 86 gig by them they’d blow you away. I went with full on goth/indie fans and even they were swept away in the moment with how musically and physically charismatic this band were live. History didn’t fall right for them,( predictably if you were there), but they were special in that moment.

[@graemeyetts3465]

I agree. I was actively in that scene and had some sort of tenuous link to all those lesser known bands,with the exception of I.Q, who I was Aware of and did quite like. I was a failed singist 😮

[@g.belanger8302]

Always got to watch until the end of these videos, 😂. Keep being you, Andy!

[@multi-purposebiped7419]

Wasn't the first commercially successful punk/prog crossover band, whether by intent or by accident, The Stranglers?

[@thomashopper8616]

I love the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Third Decade is a great album. A nice mixture of prog jazz, free jazz and New Orleans funk.

[@elbib2446]

could never get much into marillion,though i think steve rothery is a very good guitarist

[@stevethornton8270]

I love neo prog, you cant keep playing 70's over and over again although some do and refuse to move on, I've just added it to my collection, my favorite is IQ, now where did I put my flares :D

[@Nephilim-81]

On a side note. I have that lovely IQ. Boxset: The Archive Collection and it is one of my most beloved boxsets I own. Easily. Andy. I love your drumming on Frequency. It is brilliant.

[@guacamolekid3899]

I went to a Jethro Tull show at the Fox in St. Louis. It Bites was the opener. The name of It Bites album; Eat Me in St Louis, didn't go over too well in St. Louis--Rough set.

[@deanwolfechannel]

I consider you my UK professor of prog educator, thank you!

[@graemeyetts3465]

Really like ur commentary, I was there myself as a singist who never got a proper label deal😅

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

My intro to Marillion was their cd Afraid of Sunlight...loved it! Then I bought Brave! Wow! Best lyrics..."You asked me why I'm doing this, you wouldn't understand...Icarus would know a mountain isn't far to fall when you've fallen from the moon" and then Steve Rothery's guitar solo 🤯❤❤❤❤🤯 Their subsequent albums...well, ...🤔 hmmmm Iirc correctly Porcupine Tree started out as a prog parody band but look how they "progressed" beyond that!!

[@Marillion1978]

Neoprog is a great scene

[@macseinchin]

There was a UK comedy show called Spitting Image and it had a sketch wherein a man walks into the Virgin Megastore and asks in a loud and confident voice, "Packet of condoms, please!" and then follows up by stuttering in a low to whispering voice with his hand covering one side of his mouth: "And.....er....the new Marillion album as well"

[@andrewwilson711]

Great analysis

[@kzustang]

Thanks for this video, Andy. As much as I love prog and various progressive acts and genres, it was very hard for me to really get into the 80s Neo-Prog movement. I completely understand the importance of this movement in propelling the resurrection of prog with prog metal in the 90s. It is a little bit like what fusion was to jazz which became fuzak when that generation became older. Same thing with prog, a few years too late in the game. In fact, when the New Prog movement was at its peak, it was anything but progressive. At that point prog was a style and the Neo meant - preservation of.... The really progressive and forward thinking artists were taking prog into the pop realms (Gabriel, Bush, Genesis), or the electronica realms, or completely dismissing it for experimental mayham (Sonic Youth, Tom Waits and other avantgarde acts). I personally, wasn't much of a new-prog fan and even the prog-metal genre that evolved after that from the fusion of heavy metal and new prog is quite hard for me to gravitate towards. Not disrespecting or putting down any of it. I just didn't grow up listening to metal as a kid so my whole musical life is somewhat different when I talk with proggers who had their childhood heavily dipped in metal.

[@Nephilim-81]

Many have felt the actual birth of Neo Prog was in 1976 with Genesis’s Trick of the Tail, but the genre itself was cemented and championed by Marillion with Script of a Jester’s Tear in 1983. IQ were close with Tales from the Lush Attic but it didn’t have the same commercial appeal.

[@davidlee6720]

Camel , as an animal, also one of evolutions greatest achievements - so not a bad comparison - good spitters as well -

[@edgardoplasencia511]

What's cool and what's not is decided by the prolets. And now it's clearer.

[@richardsutton01]

I was a massive prog rock fan in the 70's but lost touch with the genre after punk appeared ..... until last year when Andy mentioned IQ a few times so I went to see them in Stourport a few months ago and I love them. Almost everything from "Ever" onwards, when the band appears to find its own voice, is excellent and sounds like a proper prog band rather than a pastiche of Genesis. I will see them live again the next chance I get. Prog rock may have died 40 years but long live IQ, the Kings of neo-prog.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I was at that gig with John Jowitt

[@DarkestIQ]

you know i didn't recognize you at first until i heard you played in IQ [My favorite band] i checked and its you Andy Edwards, i had to go check my IQ Stage DVD box Set to Go see and from the pictures on the back alone you look a lot different, im suprised you changed a lot i didnt even regonize you. anyways thanks for the awesome Drums in Dark matter, Really amazing in Sacred Sound and Harvest of Souls.

[@pandstar]

For me, the only neo band that has held up over all these years, is IQ. I sill love their stuff, and their newest release, Resistance, is quite good. I still have fond memories of the original bands, because they kept me going during that time, when there 'seemingly' was no other prog happening. I say 'seemingly', because if I knew any better, in retrospect, the avant-prog subgenre was producing some incredible stuff during the 80's. Univers Zero, Kultivator, This Heat, Dün, Art Zoyd, Von Zamla, Eskaton, Etron Fou Leloublan, Present, Motor Totemist Guild, and others, had amazing releases all throughout the 80's!

[@graemeyetts3465]

True what u say. I did like IT BITES 😂

[@ZNRCDS]

I think people tend to conflate "neo-prog" with the 90s 'prog revival' bands (Flower Kings, Spock's Beard,a.o.) but the neo bands had something different. It was that generation of musicians who grew up listening to their fathers or older brothers prog collection (Yes/Genesis/Pink Floyd et al) and the records they were buying at the time which were those early punk & new wave bands. So you got these guys who had both influences so they were making records that sort of sounded like the early 70s groups but had a big influence from the late 70s/early 80s scene as well. Whereas groups that came along in the very late 80s and early 90s like The Flower Kings & Spock's Beard were really trying to recreate that early 70s aesthetic. Strangely enough most of those groups weren't from the UK but from Europe and the USA. Thoughts?

[@andyshelton4889]

IQ were closer to eighties new wave , especially with the second vocalist.😀❤️🎼

[@elbib2446]

​diamond head canterbury,complete departure from previous sound

[@Soundbrigade]

I has always been a fan of prog rock (King Crimson, PFM, Moody Blues ...) and still am. I am also a BIG fan of Marillion (Steve Hogarth!!!), but the I don't know really what is and what isn't prog. I love the Doves, Canadian Red Sand, Japanese Ars Nova, Dutch Flamborough Head, Eagles' last album is very proggish, moscovian/Ukrainian Little Tragedies and Sunchild ... Maybethe prog band (neoprog??) have learned from the mistakes the first wave of bands did and have adopted to a style that either is experimental and aimed at a very special audience or mor pop-ish aimed at a greater audience.

[@emdiar6588]

Of all the bands that appeared in that infamous Neo Prog edition of Kerrang!, only Solstice got a pass from this old Progger (or teenaged Progger, as I was) because at the time all I heard was the BBC session they made for the Friday Rock Show (shout out "Thomas the Vance - TV on the Radio here - the Music Vendorrrrrr!"). I was at Reading in 83 (my first festival, age 16) and saw Marillion put on a Prog version of a Sealed Knot battle reenactment, complete with fancy dress. Twelfth Night, Pallas, Pendragon, maybe IQ (I think?) were all there but they left me cold. Even at 16 my attitude was that they were cheap knock-off versions of the real thing. On the line up that weekend, only the Enid were true Prog as far as I was concerned, and they were incredible. I don't think of Solstice as Neo Prog. Solstice were more 'hippy folk rock' and were an outlier in the sub genre, who, unlike the rest, weren't trying to rewrite Supper's Ready, leaning more towards the likes of Curved Air. Still, they were happy to ride the wave that Marillion were fronting for the press it was getting them.. The FRS session they did was just excellent, and the cassette I made of it was played to death. Then I saw them at Stonehenge festival in 84 when I was 17 (They still hadn't released an album) and it was incredible. Not long after, they released their debut album, Silent Dance and despite having some of the songs from the FRS session on it, it sounded so 80s in its polished, noise-gated production that I couldn't stand it. If you listen to them now, the FRS session still sounds timeless, but the album sounds so dated, it has "early 80s" written right through it like a stick of rock. And that was the end of my only connection to Neo Prog. Marillion were about to release Fish's pension plan song, so the genre itself was ready to implode anyway. Neo went from its Court o/t Crimson King to its Love Beach in about 18 months. I had to wait a couple of years for It Bites to sneak Prog in by the back door, before I could find a new band to be excited about, and I'll say it here - they were great because like Solstice - and unlike all other Neo Proggers - they weren't trying to appeal to spotty, Tolkien obsessed, no-girlfriend-having teenaged boys.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

They are even better today...on the same label as me...

[@henrydarker4314]

I did quite a bit of artwork for Solstice, including the first LP, probably 2 or 3, (it's been a while lol) a CD and filmed and edited a DVD filmed at The Pitz, Milton Keynes, UK tour booklet thing. I gotta say the gigs at the Marquee with Andy, Marc on violin and Sandy on vocals were really good, powerful stuff - great times. Andy's still going with Solstice, and the only original member, Marc lives in Wales now. I also got to do the artwork for Clive Bunker's _Awakening_ CD, Clive was the drummer for Solstice for a while. Note, all this artwork etc are under my real name, not this one.

[@lupcokotevski2907]

If you have never heard Theme de Yoyo (1970) by the Art Emsemble of Chicago with Fontella Bass on vocal, do yourself a massive favour.

[@freddieblue6351]

Great presentation!!! I feel that Joy Division were kind of a punk like prog group. Have a listen to Day of the Lords. I do not put JD in with The smiths or The Cure. Your channel is educating us all, thank you. I will check these bands out.

[@LPerezDancer]

Andy, go read the chat that accompanies all live streams. You have some fine supporters!

[@TheBaylanscroftSignal]

Fish used to look more like the "terminal Walmart" version of Peter Gabriel that didn't deliberately mess with his hairline.

[@lupcokotevski2907]

I reckon an exceptional album of pop mixed with prog is Time and Tide (1982) by Split Enz. Australian album of the year beating some other superlative Australian albums that year such as Circus Animals by Cold Chisel.

[@freshelfpie]

Marillion, IQ, Twelfth Night all SAVED prog. Most of the progfathers (Yes, ELP, Genesis) were chasing MTV play by writing and recording POP music. Granted King Crimson continued to progress, as did Peter Gabriel. But the main bands were missing in action, prog-wise. We NEEDED the new generation.

[@wardka]

Agreed -- except it could be argued that Peter Gabriel REgressed to pop, R&B and world music. Perhaps not to the extent of other formerly prog acts.

[@graemeyetts3465]

I didn't rate MaryLion,but others do. IQ were v good. Twelfth Night offered me an audition once🎉

[@Whit-mh9nt]

But it's not any good. How did they 'save' prog? Can't even listen to that stuff.

[@wardka]

@@Whit-mh9nt I'm curious why you clicked on the video in that case.

[@Whit-mh9nt]

@@wardka Obviously I wanted to hear what he had to say. He might mention a band I had not heard of and I might like it, who knows? If I only listen to content I already agree with, I would be a sad specimen. My disliking something you like, does not mean I am against you, either. Its simply my opinion, or are the only acceptable opinions those that are favourable? That would be boring. My question as to how it 'saved prog' is also serious. I don't see that at all. I am not sure prog has been 'saved'. Sure, there is a small amount of good stuff out there, a lot of it from France these days (Nil- Nil Novo Sub Sole is an example) but its mostly, to quote the authour of the video, as he said elswhere, 'glittery prog turds'.

[@Audiojunkabus]

"Neo "makes sense if you just look at the Britts naming cities in the New World. New York.....New Jersey... It's more like NEO = like the second coming..

[@keithparker1346]

We need neo new wave

[@kenbentley1249]

I dug out an IQ album, Ever, but it doesn’t seem to have you playing on it. I’ve been a massive Hackett era Genesis fan since 1972 and was hoping for the 80s to produce great prog, sampling bands like IQ and Marillion. Liked Brave by M and liked IQ but neither mesmerized me like Genesis, KC, vdGG, Gong, Caravan, SM, etc… Love your rants Andy! Tip on the way!

[@elbib2446]

post punk prog,all the japan offshoots.rain tree crow,dalis car

[@medwayhospitalprotest]

Marillion, are what I call a "boyfriend band" by which I mean they crop up sentences like "oh yeah, my boyfriend likes them". For me, Rush were the same. I enjoyed Neil Peart's drum solo immensely, but that's all. And Closer to the Heart. Do you remember NEO FOLK ROCK. OMG. 😆 The Levellers. The Newcranes. Chumbawumba. My university daze.

[@ollikalmari]

I remember that Martin Orford has resented the term neo-prog, saying that it was made up. I think this video is a compelling argument that it is actually a real thing. Anyway, IQ is one of my top favourite bands and I also enjoy Marillion's Fish era and some of the first albums with Hogarth.

[@alexfadista]

To me, late 70s and early 80s SAGA and ELOY sound very close to neo-prog. I wonder if those 80s neo-prog bands were listening to those two bands.

[@oman3809]

Also FM from Canada. "Black Noise", "Surveillance" and "City Of Fear". Even 'though they had a weird lineup with violin/mandolin substituting for guitar. Lots of synths and poppy prog songs.

[@TractorCountdown]

After watching that, it'll be forever known to me as Cottage Prog. Brilliant as always, Andy.

[@scottmcgregor4829]

I LOVE GARLIC BREAD!! COUNTRY MUSIC AND RAP? CRAP.

[@freshelfpie]

RIP Geoff Mann, by the way. Lyricist on par with Derek Dick.

[@markspooner1224]

The music has to be good whatever the name, I like your new album; it's good but I don't know what genre to fill in my iTunes library though!

[@JohnnyRecently]

I didn't explore Neo-prog till the early 90s. Better late than never. Many modern extreme Prog fans abhor Neo Prog. Instead, they dig eclectic prog, extreme metal, and Zeuhl. They feel you must continuously forge forward into new territory and odd time signatures.

[@SuperStrik9]

Neo Prog. What is this? The Matrix? 😜

[@davebuckley1760]

So do I and I was at Wembley. I imagine he’s a good teacher

[@steveh7866]

Never understood the labels. Whatever made Tretioariga Kriget prog? Who cares? It was fun. As a sprog prog was King Crimson, Yes, and (softer, less inovative) Genesis and Rush. Always felt calling the other stuff prog was like calling Nat King Cole jazz...when it was really the pop of the day (and Glen Miller the heavy metal of his era)

[@SpookyLuvCookie]

Andy raw. Caffeine intake and tobacco withdrawl?

[@CasperLCat]

I’ve always felt the English simply evolved a little too far, past the point where they could take sex, or anything else that’s physical or material or sensory, very seriously, unlike most of us Americans. And I love the results.

[@kevinogracia1615]

How come no one talks about pre-prog?

[@douglasanderson8636]

I saw most of the neo prog bands and no way was their musicianship up there with the originals...fun though.

[@RogerCross-q8p]

Bands like Marillion were a product of their time. Personally I liked the Fish era. I preferred their watered down version of Genesis to the Genesis watered down version of Genesis. Record companies at the time were only interested in producing hits. No one at the time could have made a true prog album unless they had financial clout to back themselves.

[@jakelee7639]

Hi Andy, great video and channel….never heard you mention psychedelic furs, did you like them?……I love them….obviously not neo-prog but curious your opinion

[@ericsierra-franco7802]

Most Neo-Prog I could never get into.

[@WarrenCromartie2]

Yes, I agree about IQ's string of prog masterpieces. The Seventh House was a long standing favourite of mine but I have to say Road of Bones is a brilliant album, and probably joint fave. I always felt they were a lot more interesting than Marillion who, although I bought into them the time, are almost unlistenable to me now. I thought I'd listen to Misplaced Childhood in the car this morning on the way to work. I hadn't listened to that album since the 90's probably and I'm sorry to say I find Fish's lyrics and vocal style irritating as hell, and the compositions bland. Chris Kimsey's beautiful production job couldn't conceal the mediocrity of the music. That said, their debut album is a masterpiece 🙂 The Hogarth era does nothing for me at all.

[@bakeone4406]

You like Miracle Whip instead of real mayonnaise, think Velveeta cheese is the best, rather read the Readers Digest version than the actual book? Is Liberace a better concert pianist than Glenn Gould?...Kenny G is the MAN? Maybe there's some great stuff that sits under the neo prog umbrella, but there seems to be enough corn syrup and and derivative drama and whining to keep a big chunk of the neo stuff from ever being close to cool. Most of what I've heard is kind of like like Pat Boone doing Tutti Frutti.

[@cagesound]

Pronk? 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

[@johncleary6126]

I've seen the future and it's not neo prog

[@stevesmith3990]

First off, I can't stand Peter Kay. I was there at the Marquee in '83 seeing all the wonderful bands you mentioned but never heard the term Neo Prog until decades later online. It was just Prog.

[@colinburroughs9871]

Marillion annoys the shit out of me frankly. I tried, but it's some weak tea, derivative stuff that's just simply not for me. There's a whole sphere of stuff like this, isn't there. I'm never going to try it.

[@RichardSmith-ot3zk]

Oh, just stop pretending to be some other comedian. I'm lifelong Texan, I have no context for this. But the Midlands accent that always sounds sarcastic, the everything's always a joke within a joke... Stewart Lee has really let himself go.

[@thearmchairspacemanOG]

Kayleigh is POP ya plank. AYE Marrillon did some PROGressive *UK* (that's UK, not ''Bwittish'' ffs) rock-soul.. but that PARTICULAR song was just Pop.

[@jimmycampbell78]

I'm not sure what you're arguing against- Andy is not even a Marillion fan, for similar reasons as you are saying. What he said was that Marillion are broadly classed as a band in this neo prog category (that's how people would class them, they wouldn't put them alongside Duran Duran or Spandau Ballet would they, as a BAND to use your chosen emphasis) and he himself made the point that they had a mainstream hit. So...er.....what's your point?

[@thearmchairspacemanOG]

Aye you've got good taste in tunage mate.. but you seriously need to go study yer own language... for real.

[@davidwylde8426]

You back again ?? With that same attitude ? Someone’s looking for a ruck lol

[@davidwylde8426]

Opening with ‘aye’ …. sound Scottish. That would explain it lol

[@thearmchairspacemanOG]

@@davidwylde8426 piss off sycophantic one.

[@jimmycampbell78]

When you fill out a form and it asks you for your nationality, do you write UKish then?

[@thearmchairspacemanOG]

@@davidwylde8426 ever heard of the navy. capn'?