Nerf Rival Kronos Mod Guide - K25 + Delete Door + Speed Loader

Subscribe for more free nerf and blaster tips to save you MONEY - www.youtube.co...
Kronos Nerf Mods | K25 Spring + Delete Door + Speed Loader & Optics is the focus of today's nerf modification video here on the Cj Nerf channel. Today we are gonna just tweak our nerf rival kronos with a K25 Spring ( bought so hopefully my son can use sooner then a k26) - Delete Door so we can use the speed loaders , & finally gonna top it off with some cool low profile optics. The K25 springs were purchased from Out Of Darts & the delete door, optic, and speed loader + holder were all purchased from Foam Technician. These super cool additions which are the perfect nerf mods for beginners are simple to install and take the aesthetics of whichever kronos you decide to mod to the next level. Hands down this is not only of the best nerf mods to do but one of the coolest nerf mods. Hope you all enjoyed this video have a great day my friends !
outofdarts.com... ---- Link to Out Of Darts Springs
www.etsy.com/s... ----- Link to Foam Technician's Store
Subscribe Here For More Nerf, & Off Nerf Brand Product Line Content: goo.gl/MVXHBs
Please Share this Video With Other KZbinrs:
• Nerf Mods
Music in This Video is - Music by Epidemic Sound
NEW FAN MAIL: Write Us A Letter:
CJ Nerf
4956 Old Long Beach Rd SE Ste-14
Southport Nc, 28461
Box - 201

[@CjNerf]

Huge Shoutout to the following 5 People from my Nerf Mega Accustrike Bulldog Review ---- Random Name !!! , The Best God , Joel Bodder , Herman Spamer SA , & Last but not least Rocroi f thanks for watching my friends hope you enjoyed have a great day everyone !

[@Brennagonxavier]

Cj Nerf iv been modding for years but I still screw up once every time hehehe

[@ryanengelstad2066]

Love the foam tech door delete. Looks wrong without it now when I see a stock kronos, definitely worth the 3.50 to 5.00 investment

[@CjNerf]

I agree when i pick up the stock one now i am like ewwwww lol

[@peterhayes1641]

or get a 3d printer lol

[@BrokeNerfing]

Cool do see you doing more mods brother

[@CjNerf]

Thanks Broke i have been wanting to do this one for awhile i figured why not

[@gustaafdehaas]

Man this is a great video! Clean and clear explanation. You sir are a great teacher!

[@CjNerf]

Thanks Gustaaf appreciate that i really like this

[@HulkHogan-jl6qv]

Foam Technicial also makes 6 shot speed loaders for the Kronos plus Gavin Fuzzy makes a 3d muzzle break and that comes with the follower that allows you to make it hold 6 instead of 5 without any shell cutting at all.

[@CjNerf]

I like that muzzle break i may have to get it someday !

[@HulkHogan-jl6qv]

@@CjNerf yea the muzzle break includes the follower to make the kronos into a 6 shot blaster with no shell cutting at all which is awesome. im gonna be getting 2 for my deadpool blasters and getting the 6 round speed loaders

[@CjNerf]

Nice thanks for letting me know my friend

[@TheSybermedic]

Cj, I would recommend you get the metal T-Pull from Out of Darts. It makes the priming of your Kronos much easier, even Caleb might be able to prime it. I have the K25 and T-Pull along with Gavin Fuzzy's 6 round Magazine and Barrel kit and it is fantastic. Keep up the great work, some day you will get the Hypnos back together.

[@CjNerf]

I do have the T-Pull Handle i got it from Worker awhile back just haven't had time to install ! I may do it soon ! i like that muzzle kit from gavin fuzzy it looks awesome Thanks I hope to get it back together soon also LOL

[@Valher78]

I love how we more or less think alike CJ, i did alomst the same exact things to my Kronos using the foam Technicians stuff and upgrading the spring (i used K26 but you already knew that i think). Great video showing what you did with the Kronos, it is a great guide to use for beginners. As for the Hypnos, can´t really help you there but i know the pain, one of my first blasters to open was the EAT and getting it back together and working was somewhat of a pain in the butt since i din´t realize at first that the plungertube twisted a little bit when putting together the damn thing so it wouldn´t close properly due to alignment issues.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks Vahler78 i would agree we think alike for sure --- i fixed the hypnos finally took me awhile but i got it !

[@Russianbro777]

Awesome, I K26d mine but left it in stock appearance. Kronos isn't so bad . Zuru pistol blasters are very easy to mod. Hypnos could easily have a small simple spring pop out and make things difficult. I took apart a airsoft gun and never put it back as I believe a tiny spring popped out and I never found it. Little springs are usually the biggest annoyances in airsoft, paintball, nerf, and of course guns.

[@CjNerf]

I hear ya --- i just needed to come down from the first night i was trying to get it together i was so ready to smash it LOL had a moment of hulk rage turned green it was ugly LOL

[@Russianbro777]

@@CjNerf I have been there, A old 20G I had with a very small spring that was very stubborn. I was cussing like my military days.

[@CjNerf]

LOL for sure it was driving me crazy thank god my kid was not around

[@multipurpose4676]

Thank you!!! This was super useful when I was struggling to put on my speed loader carrier when I was just trying to slide it straight on the rail I couldn’t, so thank you!

[@DirectHitDerek]

Thank you so much! The best tutorial for the Kronos modding so far! Very, precisely in depth and helpful!

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for watching DirectHitDerek glad you liked it thanks for the feedback !

[@TheFETT420]

This is an awesome video CJ. For someone like me who's never modded it makes it seem less intimidating. Thanks my friend have a good night.

[@CjNerf]

Fett420 this one is pretty easy --- you just have to say one day im gonna do it LOL and go for it ! you can do it

[@jnelly814]

I'm probably going to pull the trigger and get the T-bar pull from out of darts this week. I already have a k26 in it and did the door delete. It shoots like a canon and is extremely accurate. I do really want to get the quick loaders for it though.

[@CjNerf]

Jim those Speed loaders work amazingly well i was blown away how fast i was able to get back to shooting ! thanks for the feedback i have the t-bar i bought of worker 's website or nfstrikes cant remember gotta get that installed as well !

[@a_normal_person3087]

I have seen this mod before with the spring and the speed loader! I do have this for my Kronos and I’m very positive about it! Thanks for the review!

[@CjNerf]

Your welcome i am glad you enjoyed it ---- for sure i am not the first one to do this but i love the way it performs

[@Aero10borne]

woah nice rival gun!! keep up the good work cj!!

[@CjNerf]

Thanks my friend I intend to

[@Chris_Hood]

Wow, my friend--another great video. You look like a NERF Surgeon with all the tools laid out. I would say you did just a fine, fine job walking the viewer through the process, comparable to Outofdarts' video on the Kronos.

[@CjNerf]

tried to make it easy for new modders thanks for the awesome comments Chris

[@bluesupcroatia8952]

God mod Cj, the only way that you could make this blaster more practical is to install worker t pull and Gavin Fuzzy 6 shot kronos kit

[@CjNerf]

I have the worker t-pull kit and i plan to do in another Kronos so hopefully i dont jack up the shell cutting hahahahaha

[@norcalnerfclub3423]

I'm so glad you made this video! Not only is it an easily explained tutorial but, it answers something that has been puzzling me. I've ordered K25 spring from OoD twice. Both times ordering two springs for Kronos and some cut lengths of K26. When I put the Kronos springs in it's a pretty hard prime and both my Kronos have chronographed at 135fps average. Yours is hitting 140 a lot. K25 spring should only be about 120 and be easier to prime. I meant message Luke and ask him about this. The Kronos springs look exactly like K26. They are 12 coils with both ends squared. I noticed the one you put in here is 9 coils. Did you cut it down a little? If you want to have some fun and do two easy upgrades, Take the upgrade spring and put it in a Helios. It's even easier than a Kronos to put in. Then put the Helios spring into the Kronos. A buddy of mine brought me his Kronos a couple weeks ago and asked what I can do with it. I decided to do a little experiment since the Helios spring is the same length as the springs from OoD. I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of power I was getting and how easy to prime it is. It hits way better than stock and almost as much as my two Kronos. The only things I can say to try on the Hypnos is get both of those gears as far to the ends as they will go. Also push the plunger tube assembly towards the front of the blaster and make sure everything is firmly in place. It's the last thing I do on a Helios and often feel a little click as everything gets where it should be. Make sure that catch and spring below the ratchet are in correctly. Also, I'm guessing the de-prime will have to be pressed down to get it in the right place. Hope this helps a little! Take care man!

[@CjNerf]

Hey Nor Cal Nerf Club No i Did not Cut it down --- I was actually a little shocked at the performance also i was expecting lower FPS readings based on his description I did order 2 - k 25 springs but have since thrown out the packing slip to go back and make sure ! The power through me off so much i actually re-checked the chrono results at three different times during the day ! it takes some strength to prime for sure and i looked at the other one it is 9 1/2 coils squared at one end ---- this is my first springs at this power so i am not sure what a k 26 looks like in comparison but sounds like your sure i am wondering if he sent me k 26's by mistake ! The helios spring swaps sound very interesting i may try i still have another upgrade spring and i may order more. Appreciate the tips ! Thanks for the tips on the Hypnos i will continue to try to get it back together we will see what happens LOL

[@norcalnerfclub3423]

@@CjNerf lol I really should message Luke and have him see about this. I've seen the same thing from someone at a game showing me their Kronos with K25 from OoD. This calls for an experiment. I'm gonna go put 12 coils of K26 into a Kronos and see what the difference is. I don't have a chronograph but, I'll be able to tell. I'll let you know how that goes!

[@CjNerf]

{Please do my friend i am curious !

[@norcalnerfclub3423]

@@CjNerf Ok i was wrong maybe there is a difference. I was mistaken too about the spring. I don't know why I had it in head at 12 coils but, mine is the same with 9 coils. I got out my very first Kronos that had an issue with the arm on the internal magazine sticking. I fixed that and put 12 coils of K26 in it. It's not really much harder to prime and it hits a good bit harder. I also pad the plunger head on anything I upgrade the spring. You know those rubber or felt anti-skid pads people put under lamps and stuff? They fit perfectly into the end of the plunger. I put two in there. I feel like it helps with the accuracy and this thing is dead on! It uses the air more efficiently and helps protect if you dry fire a blaster with a big spring upgrade. This will be my main Kronos when I play now!

[@CjNerf]

Do you think you should pad the plunger tube ? is it necessary?

[@jennstuition]

I admire your spirits. :)

[@CjNerf]

Thanks so much for watching and dropping some very thoughful comments hope you have a wonderful day !

[@jefcaspillo]

My birthday is coming up soon so I am deciding to ask for a nerf kronos and all these mods. This video is very helpful, you earned a new subscriber.

[@sebastianamezcua100realnof2]

I love your videos Why you dont make a hades mod vídeo. It would be good. I love your vids

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for the awesome feedback never looked into hades mods could be interesting !

[@sebastianamezcua100realnof2]

@@CjNerf thanks i love your videos. I have also the hades

[@sebastianamezcua100realnof2]

Like a speed charger and a better sight.

[@CjNerf]

Very cool

[@jemassey45]

I wish I could post a picture of mine for you. I put a bunch of stuff on it & in it too. Great Video.

[@CjNerf]

Awesome James -- This kronos is even better then i expected !

[@jemassey45]

I sent a picture on Facebook msg to you. It has the Gavenfuzzy front end on it too.

[@cashjacksonhadley]

Dude this vid was awesome,and i really like these,you should do some more

[@CjNerf]

I am very glad you enjoyed it i do intend to do more of these in the future

[@cashjacksonhadley]

Cj Nerf awesome cant wait

[@CjNerf]

👍

[@triggerhappy3312]

I think it is so cool almost every video we talk!

[@CjNerf]

Absolutely my friend have a great night !

[@alexmarin8727]

You should do the 6 round mod too! It only takes a few minutes with a dremel and is a nice increase to capacity with no cons unless you mess up the mod!

[@CjNerf]

Yeah at the present moment i have 2 white 5 round speed loaders and 2 black 5 round speed loaders but if i get more i may get a set in 6 and attempt the mod ! Thanks for the tips

[@I.s88ac]

cool video cj nerf

[@CjNerf]

Thanks Isaac hope you enjoyed the video have a great day

[@willtato8778]

Your velocities are quite similar to the k26 imo. If I knew it would be that good (and close) I would have probably opted for the K25 so there would be less stress on the other stock parts.

[@nickportman]

You will see some call for the Gavin Fuzzy 6 round kit and not to knock it but really it's a mod that can be done by dremeling away at the stock internals you already have if you take your time with it. In your case though, if your speedloaders are 5 rnd max you may as well leave it as is.

[@nickportman]

Although the magnetic drop leg holster mod on the other side would really max it out.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for the awesome feedback yeah i have 5 round speed loaders but i have a few kronos's so a 6 rounder may be cool for the future ! a lot of people have mentioned the 6 rounders LOL thanks for the feedback Nick have a good night

[@CjNerf]

Is that on Gavin Fuzzys store also ?

[@homelee665]

Good job on that Kronos! I hate to hear that about the Hypnos, you might look at BlaterHub or contact Buffdaddy (who runs BlasterHub now) and see about getting some tips or internal pics.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks Homelee665 yeah i managed to fix it took awhile but i got it !lol

[@dbenn1736]

This is really cool! I may have to do something like this in the future for sure. Good video cj!

[@CjNerf]

Thanks D Glad you enjoyed this video it is easy to do for sure and performs fantastic ! hope you give it a try !

[@nerfturfbattle180]

Great mod video Glad to see you doing more of these.

[@CjNerf]

As you know it gets hard when you have kids and a house wife ETC ---- i spend so much time making videos modding takes a lot of time depending on the mod so sometimes its just not feasable to do LOL oh the trials and tribulations of being a father and husband LMAO 😂

[@nerfturfbattle180]

@@CjNerf I understand . My wife is a first year teacher.

[@CjNerf]

Oh i just realized it looks like i said Housewife i meant House ( like maintenance and yard ) and a wife ( my wife works also LOL sorry i should have put a comma) ! Hope your wife doesn't grade my posts lol

[@nerfturfbattle180]

Lol , She teaches English. I get corrected all the time.

[@CjNerf]

Hahhahaha i hear ya

[@coryzepp238]

Great vid! One of my favorite mods!

[@CjNerf]

100% agree i love the kronos so all these mods are awesome !

[@coryzepp238]

@@CjNerf I need to get some speed loaders

[@CjNerf]

Cory i got to tell you once you do the speed loaders once loading by hand will seem like the stone age LOL its like going from a squard wheel to discovering the circle wheel LOL

[@coryzepp238]

@@CjNerf LOL I look forward to that

[@DirectHitDerek]

Hey CJ! Just curious, what is the difference between a k25 and k26 spring in the Kronos? Does one have an easier prime? Does one have better accuracy? Let me know. Thanks!

[@CjNerf]

Power and yes an easier prime

[@audiemuniz6445]

Nice video.nezt time before you open a kronos Locke it like you going to be ready to shoot. That way the spring won't pop it.

[@alexmarin8727]

Nice change of pace from the previous vids! I have a K26 in my Kronos bc I had some left over and it’s a pretty hard prime but man can it shoot! I’m planning to 3D print the quickloaders at my college next. Have you seen the worker T-prime grip for the Kronos and if so what are or thoughts on it? I’m thinking about picking it up to make the prime a bit easier

[@CjNerf]

I do have the t-grip just have not installed but i do plan to do it ! i can see how it will make everything much easier !

[@thebestgod4647]

Kronos is my first rival blaster I might mod yea and I would of been on the shoutout list for the third day in a row but I have school so sorry

[@CjNerf]

School is more important my friend myvideo will always be here ! thanks for watching when you could

[@thebestgod4647]

Cj Nerf happy for u to upload it and the Kronos hots hard with 25 even harder with 26 like what

[@CjNerf]

Yeah for sure this thing blew me away with the performance

[@notmuch_23]

Just trim the hop-up tab and you'll have a nice Kronos mod. Otherwise, your rounds will curve up too much. My rounds curved up like an _exponential graph_ before I took out the hop-up in my K-26ed Kronos.

[@CjNerf]

2randomcrap3 Thanks for watching and supporting my Channel means alot

[@len518]

Cool vid as always

[@CjNerf]

Really appreciate the support Random name !!! you taking the time to watch and drop a comment ! Have a wonderful day my friend talk to you soon

[@josephbressiopazo2565]

Doesn't just removing the old door and leaving it like that work as well?

[@KurtCoconut]

Thank you, this helped me install my mods so much easier

[@bluesupcroatia8952]

The problem with the Atlas and the Hypnos are the gears. They have to be perfectly aligned

[@CjNerf]

Appreciate the feedback this has been a pain i am almost sorry i opened it now LOL

[@1Scimetar]

My advice, keep an eye on the Captain Xavier KZbin channel. When he gets a hold of a hypnos, it will almost certainly getting cracked open for his "Can It Take a K26." I think that video might be usable as a reassembly guide once it's up.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for the tips i do watch Captain X i did manage to get this blaster back together and all is working fine now

[@jonn443]

Did you get your speed loader from Foam Technicians or from OOD? I like the accents of white on the actual speed loader.

[@ottisteu5486]

Cool video!

[@CjNerf]

Really appreciate the support ottis teu you taking the time to watch and drop a comment ! Have a wonderful day my friend talk to you soon

[@TacticalJava]

Great vid! I have a 6 year old; would the k24 spring be too intense for him? We do play with face shields of course.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks Jeff sorry for the late response - yeah it would be tough for them to prime and i would not shoot him or my son with this blaster hits hard for sure especially for younger kids

[@triggerhappy3312]

I love the Kronos my is molded and painted to😝

[@triggerhappy3312]

I meant moded

[@CjNerf]

I am going to paint one of these also when i get some time !

[@CjNerf]

I thought thats what you meant ---- LOL a moldy blaster ewwww 😷

[@albey1816]

Hi Cj Nerf - that is not a slight increase in velocity ( 87Fps vs 140Fps ) - That's a huge increase. What if someone wants around say 110-120Fps ( What spring should we use )

[@CjNerf]

LOL yeah it is !!! Thanks for watching a K25 will get you 120-125 fps

[@alej37728]

Ouch , Hypnos . HOPE someone can help ya out . I can't even fix small blasters back together lol .

[@CjNerf]

Yeah man i fixed it wahoooooooo LOL

[@alej37728]

I got in trouble today lol at school , crazy things happening on my life. Not just nerf blasters .

[@CjNerf]

Hang in there my friend i hope it wasn't anything serious

[@alej37728]

@@CjNerf , it kinda is , but I'm taking care if it 👍🏻😉

[@CjNerf]

Thats cool man hope your ok though

[@snorlaxthecat8834]

Its a good mod for the Kronos it adds performance and an easier way to load

[@CjNerf]

For sure Snorlax love the speed loaders wow is it fast to reload

[@Emerald-md7cs]

With the speed loader mount do you need to drill into the blaster or do the screws just secure it. Was watching with sound off so didn’t hear 😁

[@CjNerf]

Tightens down on the tact rail no drilling the blaster thanks for the question

[@Emerald-md7cs]

@@CjNerf that’s brilliant cause I don’t mod blasters so even something like this is complicated but gonna start cosmetic modding and conversion mods like the Apollo pump transfer. The only mods I’m not gonna do is electrical involved mods like lipo rewire but want to get all my springers done where it’s just unscrew and install and rescrew 😁😁

[@Brodie-si6vg]

Awesome vid how hard is the prime on the blaster

[@CjNerf]

Gonna take a little strength for sure !

[@OCNerf]

I'm a pretty experienced modder and even I've busted blasters up in a mod. Or cut the wrong part off... It's frustrating but part of the process.

[@CjNerf]

Aint that the truth this hypnos is aggravating me HAhAHAahahha

[@lukiferbrutality1134]

I had the same issue with my basr-l blaster when I was modding it, couldn’t get it to line up & when it would I wasn’t able to prime it. I figured out the plunger tube wasn’t laid in place right & was sticking out a bit since there was a little plastic clip near the priming gear. I’m not familiar with the Hypnos functions but that could be an idea for the issue. I hope you get it fixed soon.

[@erickmorton8085]

I have the nerf Kronos I love it

[@CjNerf]

The Kronos is a great blaster for sure

[@erickmorton8085]

Cj Nerf yes it is

[@Brodie-si6vg]

Awesome video how hard is it to prime the blaster with the new spring

[@CjNerf]

I definitely take a little strength for sure !

[@WisVolley]

@@CjNerf Is it to hard to prime for preteen kids or is it okay

[@Peti92000]

Nice vid keep it up

[@alexmarin8727]

What length K25 (coils or length) did you use! That’s getting really good FPS so I might have to switch from K26

[@CjNerf]

The ones OoD sent me are 9 or 9 and 1/2 coils i ordered k25 but this power is really strong check out North Cal Nerf Clubs Post he thinks i may have been sent k26 's by accident

[@jons9239]

When I try to snap to remove screws it doesn't work like that.

[@Aero10borne]

you really need to make a giveaway!! please??

[@CjNerf]

I just did a huge one it will be awhile before I do another one

[@Aero10borne]

@@CjNerf ok thanks I appreciate it

[@benji5939]

is the k25 easier to prime then the k26

[@CjNerf]

Yes a little

[@jumbojimbo5842]

I know I'm very late but it's worth a try. When I replace the spring with a k25 and put it all together, the spring is pushing upwards, almost taking the entire firing mechanism upwards as well. I'm having trouble explaining it. Is it normal for the spring to have some push like that, or did I put it the in the plunger tube wrong.

[@__db25__32]

Where can I get a Kronos speed loader? I looked on Amazon and can’t find any yet.

[@backy1328]

Hi ! spring is not found in France. what are dimensions ? Best regards

[@olivierpepin4097]

It is me or when he shoots all the ball curve and it is really bad

[@one4all989]

Exactly. Not good if it’s too powerful. Unless you can find heavier ammo then the problem is solved. The spring is rated at 120-125fps. Not supposed to be reaching 140fps. I’d get the spring and keep the gun primed for maybe a day to weaken the spring a bit if it’s shooting too hard that balls are curving.

[@CjNerf]

it did and i was shocked at the power i was getting

[@CjNerf]

i was very surprised at the fps readings as well i thought maybe i was sent the wrong spring in all honesty i never thought to leave the blaster primed to weaken the spring maybe i will try it

[@christophepinard4661]

is top

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for Watching have a great day christophe pinard

[@jolemaire6629]

k25 is a pretty heavy spring, K26 does not offer alot more. Not for young kids. It's an adult toy now.

[@jpx7777]

Here is the secret sauce for getting the Hypnos back together: imgur.com/a/PH1KOmJ

[@CjNerf]

I saw this i had gotten mine back together but thanks for the link so many people still trying to help me get it back together i am humbled !

[@gamingbro543]

You have cool videos but not enough subsribers.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for the awesome comments Gaming Bro maybe one day my friend

[@ansatsu488]

For the hypnos email captain Xavier he maybe able to help you get it back together

[@CjNerf]

That might be a great idea ! i may have to do that thanks for the suggestion

[@1288enigma]

Can u mod all rival blasters?

[@CjNerf]

I am working on improving but some are beyond my level at the moment !

[@1288enigma]

@@CjNerf OK I would like to see a video on some of them

[@CjNerf]

I am getting asked for more and more mod videos LOL Hmmmm

[@1288enigma]

@@CjNerf I think you should do more lol

[@CjNerf]

Hahahahaha

[@lukep108]

Is it a hard prime?

[@Russianbro777]

With K26 yes, K25 isn't.

[@CjNerf]

Thanks for answering !

[@CjNerf]

Not really but youngs may struggle !

[@Chris_Hood]

imgur.com/a/PH1KOmJ Someone may have beat me to this, but here is a Hypnos tear-down guide I found linked in subreddit r/nerf. Hope it helps you out!

[@CjNerf]

I saw this i had gotten mine back together but thanks for the link so many people still trying to help me get it back together i am humbled !

[@Korviliath]

Just wait until you start painting blasters.

[@CjNerf]

Korviliath that is something I have done and I really enjoy I have actually painted lots of blasters

[@tundenedelcu7363]

Watahel guys icü cápén

[@CjNerf]

Not sure what this means sorry !

[@builderbb8767]

Maybe this will help with the Hypnos. Found the post on Reddit there's a good image of the gears. I don't have one so can't help any further i.redd.it/ks5opq1od8921.jpg

[@CjNerf]

Yeah i actually was up until 12:25AM Last night and i got it fixed LOL proud moment i was so pumped when i fired it and it worked was gonna do an update in at the start of my next video ---- thanks for thinking of a way to help me much appreciated i saw this earlier i may have even commented in that thread