Never called "Königstiger"?

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Museum / Historical Site Footage Want to see more videos with content from museums or historical sites? Want AD-FREE early Access? Consider supporting me on Patreon or Subscribestar, these supporters make trips like this possible. More info here: » patreon - www.patreon.com/join/mhv - » subscribe star - www.subscribestar.com/mhv

[@Akm72]

Re: source of the name King Tiger/Royal Tiger. It might be worth noting that the first combat use was against the Canadians and British in the fighting around Caen, it is very likely that they would have noticed the new version of the Tiger and decided they needed a new name to distinguish it from the standard Tiger.

[@rare_kumiko]

Those gunshots to censor curse words always jump-scare me.

[@memofromessex]

Totally

[@llamallama1509]

Same! omg

[@billbolton]

Same

[@Balt21Raven]

Through the roof over here....

[@iDEATH]

I was just relaxed, soaking up the information and them BAM! Adrenaline spike!

[@goranserka3601]

Most mechanical typewriters, especially the more compact versions did not have a “1” instead the minuscule “l” was used as a matter of course. Your interpretation for lg as LG is probably correct.

[@shaqm0bile]

that explains a lot. i was reading some old recipes from my great grandfather that were typed on business cards and it seemed to use some character cases incorrectly.

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

The other common substitution was capital OH for ZERO. Exclamation was dot, backspace, apostrophe. Had a customer once who did not handle the transition from typewriters to computers well. He called up at least once a month, often more, to complain that the computer should understand when O was 0 and l was 1. I couldn't deal with this repetitive nonsense, but a co-worker was really good at it. He'd say things like "I'm just the monkey, you need to complain to the organ grinder" and have the guy laughing within seconds.

[@looinrims]

Therapist: “Zoomed MHV isnt real! He can’t hurt you!” Zoomed MHV:

[@RouGeZH]

Wtf I just realized he has braces

[@markusz4447]

He is just a bigger and meaner version of Bernhard

[@markusz4447]

@Mialisus probably. But he knows a thing or two about logistics so he should be fine ;)

[@maciejniedzielski7496]

I followed him from beginning HE IS BECOMING WIDE AUSTRIAN......NO COINCIDENCE ;-)

[@jim99west46]

Your channel is great. Your efforts and product are greatly appreciated.

[@NO_LOVE_LOST]

I find it very odd that both Tigers were actually named Panzerkampfwagen VI despite the Tiger II not being an upgraded model but a completely different vehicle - very unusual for the Germans, isn't it? Kind of as if they had named both the Pz III and IV simply "Pz III" with different "Ausführung"-suffix. Any idea why they did that with the Tigers? Strangely, the Sd.Kfz.-Number (181 & 182) IS different, adding to the confusion.

[@VineFynn]

Possibly because they both fulfilled the same combat role.

[@noobster4779]

Both Tigers fullfilled the exact same role on the battlefield and had basically the same gun, only a modernized/improved version on the Version B. There was no new design philosophie at all between both tanks in comparisson to panzer 3 (fast medium tank) panzer 4 (heavy tank, support tank) and panzer 5 (heavy medium tank/main battle tank prototype). The Tiger A and B both served the purpose of "Breakthroughvehicle" in support of the main tank force. Also most of the naming and the numbers also depends on the vehicle producers who most of the time named/numbered the vehicles.

[@Lightman0359]

Maybe it was partially due to the next 2 Panzer designations, the VII/VIII being initially assigned to the scrapped much larger Lion and Maus superheavies

[@jerryudonneedtoknow3903]

well take a look at the project designations The panzer III and Panzer IV had different project names which I forgot The Panther(s) was designated under the VK.30.00 Project. Both the MAN and Daimler-Benz Panther were of majorly different designs, one resembling a close design to the T-34, and the other we have now. The Tigers are both under the VK.45.00 Project, the ones we have are the VK.45.01 for the Tiger I (henschel and porsche versions) and VK.45.02 for the Tiger II versions. It is likely that its called Tiger II because its stems from the same project line.

[@dougedsall3317]

This was typical. See PzKpfw I Ausf C & F, and PzKpfw II Ausf G, L, J as other good examples

[@MrShoki44]

Here are two more: The TNK torpedo Type 93 was named "Long Lance" postwar and the US M36 tank destroyer was named also "Jackson" postwar

[@nebfer]

In regards to the M36 this is actually not true as the Chieftain found in the US archives a document from US Ordnance detailing proposed names for US vehicles dated to 2nd May 1944 The T71 (M36) was at the time proposed to be Black Jack, the M8 (Scott) was proposed to be Bobcat, and the T26E1 General Pershing, it has a list of other names for various artillery (like the 8 inch gun being Black Panther) and rules for naming future equipment. On 24th November 1944 their is a further document that details a list of the newly adopted names of vehicles and weapons (I.e. official names) the M36 is on the list of named vehicles with the name of General Jackson. The M4 Medium, M5 Light, M24 Light all have their popular names though with the Moniker of General so and so (So the M4 Sherman actually should be called M4 General Sherman), further more the M8 Scott, M7 Priest & M18 Hellcat all are named as well (the M8 should be General Scott as well). In addition the 240mm Howitzer (Black Dragon), 8 Inch Gun (Black Panther), 155mm Gun (M1, Long Tom) M1 3 inch AT Gun (Moccasin), 81mm short mortar (Bobcat) and the 60mm T18e6 as the Tom thumb where also named. The M10 "Wolverine" is not on any of the lists so it's not known where it came from (it fits with the Canadians more than US or British schemes)

[@saberdogface]

@@nebfer Didn't some troops call the M36 the Slugger? Thought I read that somewhere.

[@baryonyxwalkeri3957]

@@saberdogface Yes, that is what I got to know this tank as too, though it was via world of tanks at that time (the renamed it later), the name stuck for me, so I keep associating it with Slugger and not Jackson.

[@williamspeck1198]

18:08 made me throw my cigarette in fright. U got me gud m8

[@slartybartfarst55]

Yep, I had to rewind in case it was a stutter on the audio (Or an mg34 being tested close by)

[@Stoner075C]

Sounds like a vehicle mounted MG34 from an old Close Combat.

[@kiskatona3439]

I have done some research into Allied newspapers and reporting of the Tiger in the past, though more specifcally on Tiger I, so the Tiger II references I found were more incidental. As far as I am aware, the most common British and American name, at least in the newspapers of the time and in War Office documents, was Royal Tiger. It has been a while since I looked into it, but I remember King Tiger turning up occasionally, Pantiger sounds familiar but it obviously was dropped pretty quickly. Honesty, I don't remember Tiger II coming up, but Royal Tiger appears to have been the preferred contemporary term.

[@88porpoise]

The “Royal Tiger” is actually somewhat interesting because that was a common term for the Bengal Tiger (it was more formally known as the “Royal Bengal Tiger”). And while I can believe your typical 21st century Austrian isn’t familiar with Bengal tigers, I suspect most Brits around the 1940s were. People that grew up in the time of Rudyard Kipling while India was the Crown Jewel of the Empire likely would associate a bigger, badder Tiger tank with the bigger, badder Bengal Tiger.

[@HSMiyamoto]

The memo about when and when not to use "suggestive names" suggests that part of the confusion historians deal with today was INTENTIONAL, in order to help frustrate enemy intelligence that captured Wehrmacht documents. If so, this would be similar to the decision of the Japanese armed forces to use purposely unhelpful names, like "Type 0 Navy Fighter" in public statements, instead of the actual designation, e.g., "A6M2," a name that no only explains what kind of airplane is being mentioned (a "Rei-sen" or "Zero") and the version of the plane, the second.

[@davidshepherd397]

When writing one sometimes forgets that their memories aren't pure. For example when I think about something I did in 1987, the memory is now coloured by newer experiences and perspectives, so the general while writing his book would call the Tiger II the Konigstiger, because he has used that term since a later date. While his knowledge is unquestionable, his memories become a bit blended.

[@TheSonicfrog]

It's the greatest chase of rabbits down a hole in recent memory ... do continue!

[@nepete7]

Another rabbit hole - normally German model (ausf) designations are alphabetical order. With Tiger the earlier model is called “ausf e” and the later version is “ausf b”.

[@lwilton]

A comment on the confusion between "1" and "l": In the early days of both typewriters and teletypes (at least in the USA) it was often common to not put a "1" key on the keyboard, and instead instruct the typist to use a lowercase "l" when a "1" was required in a number. The type-font used made a lowercase "l" look very much like a "1", so this was generally quite acceptable, and it was usually obvious from context whether the letter or number was appropriate. In much typewriter output the style guides said that you spelled out numbers other than dates in text passages, and reserved numerical entries for tables and the like. This further reduced confusion. However, then you get to a military memo designating a "Model 1A", and the only way this could be typed was "Model lA" because there was no "1" on the keyboard. In the KZbin font this is obviously a glaring error, but in an Elite or Pica typewriter font, the two designations are nearly identical. So: Don't be overly concerned about the use of lowercase "l" where you think "1" is appropriate in typed 1930s-40s memos. It most likely is supposed to be a "1", but there was no way to type that glyph. (And some typists, used to using "l", would continue to do so out of habit even after moving to a typewriter that actually had a "1" on the keyboard.)

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

thanks, I had not seen it before, whereas I have seen a lot of times the "J" being used instead of the capitalized "i". Also it was not the original document, but a transcribed reprint, that made it odder as such it looked weirder since it was also a properly edited reprint.

[@TotalRookie_LV]

I can only confirm, that "королевскийтигр" ("royal tiger" or "king's tiger") has been in widespread use in Russian/Soviet parlance, at least it was there during the Cold War era, thus very, very unlikely came from English, so it could be either of Russian or German origin.

[@TotalRookie_LV]

Damn typo! It's two words - "королевский тигр"

[@malcolmhunt7108]

The Pz.IV 1g(v) is the 'Jagdpanzer IV' with the 7.5cm PaK 42 L/70, in other words the Panzer IV lang(V) which was later renamed Panzer IV/70(V), the (V) is to distinguish the builder in this case Vomag. I have a lot of Fuhrervortrag documents and the like on my PC and on quite a few if you only give it a quick glance the l in lg could be mistaken for a 1. The same goes for the Pz III (lg) or (lange) which is the Pzkpfw III with the 'long' 5cm K.w.K. 39 L/60 gun as opposed to the Pzkpfw III (kz)or (kurz) which had the 'short' 5cm K.w.K. L/42 gun.

[@MohammedKhaled-ju7gy]

Hey, me being from Bengal and tiger II nazi affiliation aside... if it was indeed called konigstiger (Bengal tiger), we people of Bengal are honored. Majestic beast is it

[@Losantiville]

Watched to the end, love you share your research!

[@frankgulla2335]

What an exhaustive analysis of the term "King Tigre. And to think I almost skipped this video because I wondered what could I possibly learn. Boy, was I wrong.

[@Deep-Red-0]

So much respect for you and the amount of work you do

[@saltech3444]

Before you even mentioned it, I thought of the British connection. I have always been fascinated by the fact that the phrase "King Tiger" is without meaning in English. It is simply a calque of the German name "Koenigstiger" which is a German word for the Bengal Tiger. This means that the phrase "King Tiger" could not have come first; it is simply a direct translation of the German. However, I frequently come across British references to a "Royal Tiger" in old memoirs. The phrase "Royal Tiger" is less inelegant than "King Tiger" in English; and in fact the phrase "Royal Tiger" sounds very British to me, perhaps a reference to something in British India. The first contact of the Western Allies with the Tiger II was when Canadian troops encountered it at the Battle of Verrieres Ridge in Normandy. It was thereafter more usually to be encountered in the British sector in Normandy where the SS Panzer units were concentrated. I think it would be interesting to check up on whether the term "Koenigstiger" originated as British slang from someone with a connection to British India, and then some British tankman was captured and questioned, and the nickname "Royal Tiger" caught on with the Germans as "Koenigstiger". I can well imagine that on both sides the distinction between Tiger I and Tiger II mattered a lot, since the capabilities of the pair were very different. It is not like a Stug III or Stug IV, which were too similar to need distinctive names that could be called out quickly. Therefore a name like "Koenigstiger" may have been a useful disambiguator for the Germans too (as opposed to being a "propaganda name" in origin), since "Tiger Ausfuehrueng B" is ambiguous in sound.

[@jfobel2204]

Also a wicked known fact that sends it home with your 'Bengal Tiger not being the proper translation' point: If you look up just the other Tiger Subspecies, the Siberian Tiger can weigh almost 200 pounds more than Bengal Tigers. So in relation to size it wouldn't make much sense than to refer to them any lesser than 'Royal' or 'King' Tiger.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

you could call them emperor tigers (just like emperor penguins are larger than king penguins, being the first and second largest penguins respectfully)

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 Kaiser Tiger almost rhymes.

[@Bert2368]

Biggest Tiger is SIBERIAN TIGER. Wehrmacht not likely to choose that name...

[@sircashew1097]

I was listening to this with headphones in the background while writing my history thesis and the gunfire you used to censure yourself damn near gave me a heart attack 😂

[@ProvidenceXIV]

those gunshots gave me a heart attack

[@hookybrickshooky9529]

I've read many times that the name King Tiger was given by the allied troops who encountered the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger II during the Invasion in Normandy.

[@globul3410]

wait there are comments from a week ago??

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Patreon / Subscribestar Early Access, also adfree : patreon.com/join/mhv

[@vladimpaler3498]

Yes, some of us pay for videos like this. It is like an addiction. He has us hooked on military history. The upsides are cool information that does not give you the munchies. Although I do get itchy if it goes too long between videos.

[@remcoesselaar8662]

At 18:06 it sounds like gunshots are being fired. You ok?

[@slartybartfarst55]

KZbin Censors shooting out the "rude" bit. Wish they would do that to the Audio & Visual of all these Makeup & Clothing KZbinrs - I find that MUCH more offensive. ;-)

[@SouthParkCows88]

Lol who didn't know Bengal is the bigger cat? The Brits called it the Royal Tiger. Fun fact there's no german word for Bass, it's called a sea wolf. Great stuff as always.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

You mean "Bass" the fish? Well, it is actually Barsch, at least for the freshwater variant.

[@SouthParkCows88]

@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Yes the salt water version is Wolfsbarsch or seawolf. At least that's what I was taught at my uncle's restaurant, in Berlin. Barsch in German can also mean perch, and then in English there's an actual fish called a sea wolf which is a type of catfish. You may know better than I, your native German I lived there after the fact. There's an entire rabbit hole of fish translations 😂

[@gerryjamesedwards1227]

@@SouthParkCows88 I only know Die Forella. :)

[@SouthParkCows88]

@@gerryjamesedwards1227 🤣 my favorite fish....

[@markusz4447]

@@SouthParkCows88 he is Austrian

[@billbolton]

That cleared that up nicely.

[@BornRandy62]

we used to sing a little song to remember soviet aircraft. Blinders and Badgers and Bears oh my. The soviets never used those names for thier own aircraft

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

They were Nato designations. Like the Foxbat (MiG 25)

[@thomaslinton5765]

My stepfather drove a tank in the Fort Gary Horse Canadian armored regiment in France and Belgium. He called it "Royal Tiger," but never saw a working version

[@F2000-q2z]

My guess is that Panzer III 1g (1) is actually Panzer III LG (L). LG for Lang (long 50mm gun) and (L) for Ausführung L. It is not hard to mix up figure 1 and letter l. Panzer IV 1g (v) has to be Panzer IV lang (Vomag), the Panzer IV/70 Vomag tankhunter.

[@jim99west46]

I've talked with ww2 us army tankers and they called it two names, royal tiger and king tiger.

[@Tepid24]

I think the easiest thing to say about the "king tiger" vs. "bengal tiger" discussion is simply that "bengal tiger" would be the more biologically accurate translation, whilst "king tiger" would be the more psychologically accurate translation. A translation of the meaning, rather than the letter.

[@toddwebb7521]

Definitely interesting to see this deep dive in the subject. Also on the subject of possible mistranslation of Royal Tiger from English to German I'm pretty sure royal should be Königliche like for example the Königliche Marine was the Prussian Royal Navy before the unification of Germany and becoming the Kaiserliche Marine.

[@murphymagic33]

we like rabbit holes. Many thanks

[@SoneGurke]

1944-10-11 - Die Deutsche Wochenschau Nr. 736 they call it königstiger there at 12:34 archive.org/details/1944-10-11-Die-Deutsche-Wochenschau-Nr.736 there was another wochenschau where they called it that too but i don't remember which one it was (some kind of demonstration where they did some sort of formation driving)

[@mephisto7549]

I know of one Wochenschau Episode, where the King tiger is introduced and also called Königstiger

[@ekszentrik]

So since the allies invented "King Tiger" which means "Königstiger" but which actually means "bengal tiger", it follows in German the tank should be called "Bengalischer Tiger".

[@musicmaster417]

great video, thank you

[@hookybrickshooky9529]

Is there any account of a tank crew member of an "Tiger II" on how they called their tank during war?

[@baryonyxwalkeri3957]

If 1g was meant to be lg, then the (1) could be a (l) too? But I couldn't find a fitting production company of Panzer III, at least by going through the wikipedia page at least.

[@okaro6595]

Bengal tiger is the normal tiger, it is the most populous subspecies and if you ask people where tigers live they say in India. Also the fact that the subspecies is also tigris shows that. The term Königstiger actually is a translation from English royal tiger. It originally meant just large individual animals preferred by hunters but then spread to the subspecies as a whole. Therefore Royal Tiger would be the best translation.

[@miserablebugger7076]

But why is the earlier model the E and the later model the B ?

asking the real questions :) But it is the same with the Pather. The first combate Version was the D (I think) and the next on A

[@calessel3139]

You have to remember that the Germans were constantly renaming vehicles throughout the war, especially tanks and tank destroyers. The designation Ausf.E for the Tiger 1 was expedient when it was the only tiger design, although I've never read an explanation for why it was known as the Ausf.E. Earlier it was named (H) for Henschel. Why they changed it is unknown. So anyway when the Tiger-II was produced I would assume someone decided that since it was the second Tiger variant it should be denoted as the Ausf.B with the Tiger-I being the Ausf.A. However, no one ever bothered to change the Tiger-I's title from Ausf.E to Ausf.A. So this is why theres a discrepancy. This is of course simply a guess I have no evidence that this is the case.

[@pontificateyourlife4536]

Confusion to the enemy!

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

So long story short, the King Tiger was the replacement for the Tiger therefore officially it's called Tiger. Also, Panzer VI to be the suppert for the Panter the Panzer V like the Panzer IV was to the III. And King Tiger was the nickname given by somebody either German propaganda or British troops because it's a bigger better Tiger. Yep still gonna call it King Tiger just like my Jumbo Sherman.

[@baryonyxwalkeri3957]

How come that Tiger II was called TIger Ausf. B, when Tiger 1 were H1 and E? Was this to try and fool the allies or did they still consider both Tiger 1 versions as "A"?

[@bbcmotd]

Was Hetzer actually called Hetzer by the Germans in WW2? I've heard contradicting stories. Some say it never was, others say there was like one General who requested more "Hetzers" in his report, and some say it was an unofficial widespread nickname but not a nomenclarure name like Panther or Tiger. UPD: 7:57 oh... I see :D

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

haven't looked into it personally, although lately I came across something I don't think anyone has mentioned yet.

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

So, the US military (during WWII) did not call the M4 Medium Tank "Sherman". The Wehrmacht did not call the Tiger Ausf. B "Konigstiger." The US and British military did not call Operation Overlord "D-Day." No one called the German Jagdpanzer 38 "Hetzer." So what is the consensus on the Mitsubishi A6M fighter being called "Zero?" On the "l" or "1" confusion, old typewriters often left off the "1" key, and the typist was supposed to use the "l" key for both. Now that's the Opposite of what you encountered. So maybe someone saw "l" and changed it to "1" thinking the original document used that type of typewriter?

[@Kyle-gw6qp]

The British called the M4 the Sherman though, at least it was a contemporary name.

[@Jfk2Mr]

Well, "Zero" was widely used by British as nickname for Japanese Type 0 Naval fighter aka Mitsubishi A6M. "Reisen" that is sometimes found is pretty much short form for "(type) 0, fighter" in Japanese

[@StPaul76]

In summer of 2016 I saw the first time what a fully grown, completely fed Siberian(Amurian)male tiger actually looks like in flesh.. The Panzerkampfwagen IV pales in comparison of Aww.. In the zoo of Helsinki the bitch tiger had had two offsprings.. That caused the male, often lazy, to come and show off his might.. It looked like a an orange and black Sphinx as it stretched down the cliff.. Long as a crocodile.. Came right at the safety perplex shield about one meter infront of me.. I gazed at a Cat the size of a large horse.. 4,5m/15ft.(with the tale)long.. Standing at a height of my chin(6ft.tall).. Weighing 450kg/1100lbs.. Opened it's jaws and showed canine's the size of good hunting knives.. Set of nuts the size of a pair of baseballs.. Just gazing at people and srolling back and forth.. :D I felt blessed to see a beast like that.

[@Kyle-gw6qp]

Nah. Tanks are better.

[@HATECELL]

At least the name King Tiger doesn't seem to originally been linked to another vehicle as with the Hetzer

[@daguard411]

Of the many ridiculous things that occurred after the end of WW2, one of them was the burning of records. I can only write on one example in that the US Army Captain put in charge of the Mauser Company ordered that ALL of the company records had to be taken outside and burned, and they were. I would like to venture that another reference could be diplomatic message traffic. I mention this because the Nippon (Japanese) were given information and were developing much of the same technology as the Deutsche had in use or were developing..

[@genericpersonx333]

As warped as it seems, the logic was that it was better no one knows than the wrong one knows. Everyone wants to pretend the Allies were all friends, but everyone was spying on everyone else in the alliance while carefully trying to control what they told each other. It took enormous leaps of faith by certain people to get any information shared. You would think Mauser records were not something to keep so secret but as you note, an American thought it bad to leave them for the French, and the French ended up destroying most of the rest themselves rather than let Germans or British have them after the French were done with them. The only thing worse than an enemy is a friend with conflicting interests. Historians suffer dearly for this reality...

[@roberthopwood3758]

I reckon the blokes facing it, called it a " 'king Tiger".

[@Mortablunt]

I heard it was called the "Nope" as in "Nope, not fighting that, let's call for some CAS to kill it instead."

[@slartybartfarst55]

Thank you. Seems like the name could even have sprung up by one proud crew calling their Tank that, catches on, a reporter also overhears it, & suddenly there is is "Out in the wild".

[@d-cat8198]

Lol...”if you make it that far”. Challenge accepted. Love your work

[@vladimpaler3498]

A rose by any other name would still be a really huge, heavy tank with an enormous gun. You can hear it now, "The Englander call it the King Tiger". Propaganda Minister, "That's good, I am going to steal it."

[@cmdrgunslinger5955]

To me the important thing is when I say Tiger tank you know I mean the first or block style. When I say King or Royal or Konigs tiger you know I mean the later or sleeker version. I'm not likely to be talking to anyone from WWII or someone who won't know the difference.

[@TacoSallust]

This is why I buy the books you make with Christof.

[@johnaitken7430]

Thankyou Bernard

[@davidwright1605]

Didn't the British face the Tiger II before the US? I think if the Allies originated the name it would be the British rather than the US.

[@Geotonrike]

Hello my friend, your videos are awesome 👏👌👌 I have a question tho, since you are an expert, were World war 2 vehicles shooting type of shells that exploded after penetration inside the tank (pzgr) or was it mainly just armour piercing rounds.

[@RasEli03]

I thought of the lineup of all those tiger 2's and how the voice over says "das is der königstiger"

[@oreroundpvp896]

So the Germans never called it the Konigstiger but that name sounds by far the coolest anyway especially the voicelines from Company of Heroes 2 when you have a King Tiger.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

they called it that, but not officially.

[@jarodarmstrong7836]

Could the Panzer III 1G be the Panzer III N, the last produced variant with the 7.5cm L/24 gun which was essentially an IG? Not sure how it was in Germany at the time but I know capital i would be used for 1 on old typewriters.

[@markhamilton3958]

Isn’t Pz III 1g a misprint of Pz III lg as I. The shortened version of Lang. That would mean a long barrelled 5,0cm L60 armed Pz III. Perhaps a late J or an L.

[@malcolmhunt7108]

I have a lot of Fuhrervortrag and panzer production documents and the like on my PC and on quite a few if you only give it a quick glance the l in lg could be mistaken for a 1. So no it will be for the Pz III (lg) or (lange) which is the Pzkpfw III with the 'long' 5cm K.w.K. 39 L/60 gun as opposed to the Pzkpfw III (kz)or (kurz) which had the 'short' 5cm K.w.K. L/42 gun.

[@jarodarmstrong7836]

@@malcolmhunt7108 They would have used either capital i or lower case L for 1 in the original source, so it's not always clear if the writer meant 1,l, or I. I just thought it was odd that late in the war they would still have a number of 5 cm L/60 III's in the unit and none of the 7.5cm L/24 versions. I did find out that the Germans grouped the N with the J, L, and M as the "long" variants so that answers that.

[@jarodarmstrong7836]

@@markhamilton3958 That's what MHV and Chieftain said. As I noted to Malcolm, apparently the Germans included the last N variant with the J, L, and M's in the "long" group of the III. By the time of the report most remaining III's in service would have been N's so it seemed odd that the 5cm L/60 variants would be present in numbers with no N's but yeah, question answered

[@malcolmhunt7108]

@@jarodarmstrong7836 in all the documents I have(and I have thousands of pages) or have seen the Pzkpfw III ausf N is not classed the same as the Pzkpfw III lang it has the designation Pz III 7.5, it also has to be pointed out that 1,521 ausf J were built with the 'short' 5cm gun with all the 'long' 5cm ausf J's being renamed ausf L in March 1942.

[@sparkey6746]

When one shoots at the King, it's best not to miss. :)

[@kennetth1389]

So...possibly it began with the infantry of one side, which side who knows. After all, they are the ones either supporting or hiding from the monsters.

[@scifidude184]

Ok..... WHY are the archives not released? The archives are a massive source of primary accounts. Why not release them?

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

?

[@seno5530]

@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized I think, and that would be also my opinion, that it is a scandal that images from public archives may not be freely used. Not my government.

[@pontificateyourlife4536]

The UFO pictures.

[@thomasbernecky2078]

Think you need some more detail on this, Herr Doktor Torture? have you moved to Germany?

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

For Merchandise check out my teespring store: teespring.com/stores/military-history-visualized

[@typxxilps]

Our priest usually told us once in a year on biwak that we should not use the word "NEVER" cause that is overemphasized and usually untrue ... and all the cases were a never had already been broken were usually called exemption but just 1 breakes the chain needed for a NEVER. If you had read everything that exists about the term that it might be true until a new document appeared that the tank had been called Königstiger. Did the germans know about the broken enigma code of german subs in 1943 ? No is the usual answer but from a suisse source that relied on an american source they had known about the issue that enigma code had been decrypted by the US ... Same for the Term Blitzkrieg which had existed even before the war but used differently ... Invasion of Poland, Danmark, Norway, Netherland, France were usually not called Blitzkrieg in Germany but who really knows about that? You might have to check every german newspaper if there had not been one guy with maybe a connection to london that called it Blitzkrieg in german too. Would make much more sense in German to call it Blitzkrieg instead of "Bewegungskriege" or "Krieg der verbundenen Waffen" And in 2025 someone will jump out a foxhole in the archives and proudly present a document where the tank has been called "Königstiger". The narrative of WW2 has changed quite often I guess cause in the 70ies the germans had to learn the truth about enigma and other secrets , than the cold war era end presented a broader access to russian documents, archives and whitnesses and so on ... therefore "never" ends often in the rule of exemption like the Pervetin story which has even been mentioned by nobel price authors in the letters to their family where they asked relatives if they could get it ...

[@CalebNorthNorman]

Cool shirts btw 👍. Pretty sure they just called it the Tiger ii. Using the name "King" doesn't seem to be a word of much use to the German vocabulary at this time.

[@CalebNorthNorman]

@Military History not Visualized Why not ask a Veteran of the Panzer Corps who used them. There are still some ww2 veterans out there still alive and it would be a valuable resource to use before they are all gone. I am a little surprised they are not consulted more. I really enjoy all your videos. I know its tons of hard work goes into these videos. Thanks for being there.

[@CalebNorthNorman]

PzKpfw-VI-Tiger-Ausf-B-Tiger-II.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

​@@CalebNorthNorman > Why not ask a Veteran of the Panzer Corps who used them. I don't know any, I don't have time to search for them and get in contact with them, not to mention that King Tigers were extremely rare. Oh, then with the pandemic it is even worse and finally, I know how the human memory works as such I had very little confidence that they would tell me something what I would consider "correct", you might want to read Daniel Schacter: Seven Sins of Memory.

[@stevenleslie8557]

German made some scary tanks like the Tiger 1&2, but it turned out to be overkill (no pun intended). They were over engineered, heavy, fuel inefficient, and expensive. But they were greatly feared.

[@AKUJIVALDO]

Overkill? There is no better kill as Overkill! And anyway, Tigers(and Panthers at lesser degree) killed enemy tanks at distance, in open plains of Russia. They were in their element there. Over engineered? At what? Having best suspension to use in mud/over uneven ground? Guns killing enemy tanks at 2 Kilometres and more? Next gen of enemy tanks still were killed by those guns. Heavy? So they should have paper armour? Fuel inefficient? Who did better with 56 ton and 69,8 ton tanks? Expensive? Why, yes. They were state of art heavy tanks. Stop parroting BS you heard and do some research yourself with critical mind.

[@m00nch11d]

it is the only "King"

[@natteravn7336]

Have you asked Lindybeige? As you may remember he found out that Spandau was the correct term for the MG42.

[@bencejuhasz6459]

Greetings! My guess is that the term "Königstiger" was just simply mistranslated into King Tiger. After all,the army translators are probably neither zoologists,etymologists nor linguists,so they said(probably):we forget that 's' letter, "König" means king, "tiger" means tiger and the tank is a larger,meaner Tiger tank, so "King Tiger" is good enough for us.

[@venator5]

The newstreel did called that way.

[@walterc4894]

I know I'm late to the party, any chance I can still get the Cat Lover T-shirt?

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

nope sorry, maybe in a future campaign.

[@StPaul76]

I'd guess that makes an Iosif Stalin tank a "Siberian Tiger" even though Iosif Vissarionovitsh was from Gruusia (Georgia).. :D

[@NoName-sb9tp]

What about a “Siberian Bear”?

[@brianlong2334]

@Mialisus People like to compare the IS 2 with Tigers because of its gun however it's overall was more comparable to the Panther and Pershing.

[@FortuneZer0]

Me: Im pretty sure the propaganda called it Königstiger.

[@yellowstonethepony7769]

Yes. Indeed. There is even a propaganda video where they call it a king tiger.

[@thebigone6969]

You’re the greatest historian in world history MHV!!!!

[@calessel3139]

I've always thought the "King Tiger" designation was a moniker entirely invented by the British.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

I believe that you are right. The British called it the 'King' or 'Royal' Tiger.

[@Casmaniac]

Let's build the biggest tank in the war, then lose half of them on the way to Antwerp due to fuel shortage

[@07jaworski07]

As good as the 88mm gun was, I wonder what biggest gun that under armoured turret could fit & use?

[@Jfk2Mr]

There was a proposal to mount 105mm gun, but as far as I know it ended only on paperwork phase due to end of the war

[@07jaworski07]

Yes, that is right, but the question still remains. Would that big boy fit the 128mm gun the Jagdtiger had?

[@Jfk2Mr]

@@07jaworski07 no, it wouldn't fit unless it was a casemate instead of turret

[@Hexa1rtn1]

The king tiger menaces with bands of krupps steal. Beware it's deadly canon!

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

Just like the bureaucracies it dives into, this kind of deep bureaucratic dive is confusing and useless and a waste of time, yet somehow fascinates me. It also seems almost like an uber Lindybeige digression, being a complete digression right from the beginning. The back of my brain kept wondering if there would soon be a minute or two of anti-digression before resuming the digression.

[@miatamike93]

18:07 *rip head-phone users*

[@puschelhornchen9484]

Its much more easier: Tiger Ausf. B > Bengal Tiger > Königstiger 🐅 ^_^

[@no0ns]

18:07 jesus christ I nearly soiled myself. Ain't cool to add loud noises to videos that serve as nice background noise.

[@maciejniedzielski7496]

Before watching as I heard "Königstiger" was just unofficial nickname sometimes used. Moreover BLITZKRIEG (LIGHTNING ⚡ WAR) is a word INVENTED by ALLIES. IN WEHRMACHT IT WAS "BEWEGUNG KRIEG" "WAR OF MOVEMENT' BTW as a man I WISH ALL WOMEN WATCHING THIS CHANNEL HAPPY WOMEN DAY :-) :-):-)

[@whiskeytangosierra6]

King Tiger - because it is much more cool than Tiger II.

[@Kannietwo]

Wir machen mal ein Trinkspiel: Immer wenn das Wort "Tiger" ausgesprochen wird, muss man einen Kurzen trinken. Mal schauen wie viele Leute bis zum Ende des Videos durchhalten 😂

[@tajemnicegorzowa]

Kuknę ,, Tygrysy królewskie bronią miasta"

[@deadendfriends1975]

But that's my cat's name ?!!!

[@ghostrider1205]

I always called it Tiger 2

[@jmackmcneill]

I love the logic that because Google Translate free associates Konigstiger into Bengal tiger we should do the same. Similarly, the russian word for "spacesuit" literally means "human-ship", but is obviously translated as "spacesuit" because that is the english word. That doesn't make those words the SAME.

[@monty6471]

That's exactly the opposite of the situation here - In German, König means king/royal (eg Königsberg) the Bengal Tiger is known as the Königstiger, Indichertiger, or Bengalischertiger, so the literal translation of Königstiger would be Royal Tiger, and the accurate translation would be Bengal Tiger. So it's not "free association" at all

[@franciscofranco4520]

Legally obliged? Why? What is the legal basis of this claim?

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

les das Gesetz!

[@Bochi42]

Wonderful video. And thank you for acknowledging that names used in official documentation are not the end all and be all. For modern examples see the A-10 Thunderbolt II which everybody knows is really the Warthog and the F-16 Fighting Falcon which everyone knows is the Viper. OK maybe not the best illustration of how nomenclature used in official documents differs from that used in the field. The M249 just being called the Saw is closer but still different. AS much as I love Hillary Doyle and people like him for the vast amount of information they dig up and provide, people ike that tend to be very anal and if it's not in an official document then to them the information doesn't exist. It's absurd to me that troops in the field wouldn't have different names for the Tiger I and King Tiger. They're very different vehicles to work with. Yes both are heavy tanks but their capabilities are not the same.

[@franklinlewis6059]

Was by (U.S.) but then again us yanks have a way of doing things differently.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

from what I have seen it seems very unlikely that it originated with the US soldiers, if it came from the Allies the British are the most likely.

[@88porpoise]

@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Also the Americans weren’t very good at naming tanks in general, they mostly just cribbed off the Brits

[@franklinlewis6059]

Was thinking about this again, seems we(us) were also known to call them Royal Tigers/ Tiger Royal. That title never sounded right to me.

[@memofromessex]

Hi!

[@krone5]

Königstigernennungslösigkeit

[@TheCorship]

Wtf is that sound 18:08.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

machine gun, it conceals a swear word, I don't use bleeps.

[@patrickwentz8413]

Germans lets call it Tiger Long Barreled 8.8 CM! Allies King Tiger! Germans that will do.